The Great Resignation, Part 2

Part II of my take on The Great Resignation. Some folks are proposing that we stop calling it "the Great Resignation" in favor of something warmer and fluffier, but I disagree. I think we need some of that "I'm a person, not a robot" energy in Corporate America. No one rules if no one obeys. ✊

Key topics:

✔️ Here's a dirty little secret: all these video conferences and video interviews can be and sometimes are used for discriminatory purposes. If some company is browbeating you about showing up on video when there seems to be no coherent reason for it, ask yourself why that might be.
✔️ The same people who act like jerk managers to their employees within a company do not deserve to be in your freelancing business either. They will make your life a living hell, too. They need to stop being jerks!
✔️ Running on the hamster wheel of consumerism and "keeping up with the Joneses" will keep you trapped in Corporate America. I've lived long enough to see Gordon Gekko go from vilified yuppie who demonstrated 1980s excess to hearing him give the most cogent explanation of the burst housing bubble of the late 00s I've ever heard. And be aware: we're headed for the same territory again. More on this topic in a future episode.
✔️ The magic salary number of $75K for happiness is 10+ years old. Adjusted for inflation, it's more like $95K now. Some companies want to pay yesteryear's wages and then wonder why no one is interested.

Links I discuss in this episode:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/janicegassam/2020/05/07/3-ways-video-conferencing-can-unintentionally-cause-bias/

https://pursuit.unimelb.edu.au/articles/are-our-new-virtual-workplaces-equitable

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danpontefract/2021/11/22/the-great-resignation-isnt-really-a-thing-something-else-is/?sh=6c796be423e5

Logical Finance video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d88Lkr-TzjI&t=416s


Need more? Email me: https://causeyconsultingllc.com/contact-causey/

Transcript

0:15

Welcome to the Causey consulting podcast. You can find us online anytime at CauseyConsultingLLC.com. And now, here's your host, Sara Causey. Hello, Hello, and thanks for tuning in. So this is part two of my recording about the great resignation. In my area tree pollen and mold spores are high today. So I am going to attempt to get through this episode without either Oh just as if on cue. I was about to say, without either having to clink around a lozenge in my mouth or have some sort of coughing or sneezing or snorting attack, I do not have COVID, I'm not down and out in my health, it really just is allergies. So if there's any kind of weird squeaking in my voice, that's what it is. So in part one, I talked about a video by logical finance called the Great resignation, corporate America is dead. And I want to revisit some of the topics in that video. But before I get there, I ended the last episode by talking about eliminating things like zoom and slack from your practice, if that's something that you want to do. Now, if you're highly extroverted, or you're, I guess, a big fan of being on camera a lot, you're like, Hey, I like getting up and fixing my hair and doing this and this and that, and being camera ready, knock yourself out. But I think the vast majority of us are fatigued from things like zoom and Skype and slack and feeling as though the lines between work hours and home hours or family time have suddenly not just blurred, they've gone all the way away. And somebody who might never have had the audacity to call you at like 10 o'clock at night and ask you for something. don't see anything wrong with sending you a message on a slack channel at 10 or 11 o'clock at night. And it's like, please don't. I am trained and certified in best practices for dei hiring, diversity, equity and inclusion. Continuing education is incredibly important to me. And anytime that I have a little bit of a low where I can reinvest back into the business and reinvest back into myself about what's going on in the market. What I can do to be better at my job, I'm always game for it. And I want to tell you guys, there's a little nasty secret about all of these incessant video interviews and incessant video calls, something that I don't think is talked about enough. Sometimes we like to get into the logical fallacy of solipsistic thinking, meaning if I wouldn't do that, or I wouldn't think that way. Nobody else would either. Right? And wrong, not correct. Not true. We need to be aware, we need to stay woke and stay vigilant about some of the nastier things the darker side of these video conferences and video interviews. They absolutely can be used for discriminatory purposes. It gives this person an opportunity to check you out why? Well, it could be I'm not saying this is true. In every case, I'm just saying in some circumstances, it could be they want to see your age. They want to see your gender, if your gender fluid if you're transgender, how are you dressed? What is your socioeconomic status? So what is your house or apartment look like? Are you a parent? Are their kids running around in the background? Or maybe they're away at school? Or they're outside playing? Do you have toys around? Is there anything that might suggest you have a newborn and you can't be like sold your soul to the company all the time because you have a baby? These things do happen? You don't just have to take my word for it. You may be sitting there thinking yeah, but you know, you pretty much hate zoom and Skype, you don't like to be on camera all the time. Again, you don't have to take my word for it. I want to direct you to an article on Forbes Of course, I'll drop a link to it in the write up about three ways video conferencing can unintentionally cause bias. And again, I'll drop a link to it. It's very well written. And I want to say sometimes, yes, maybe it is unintentional bias. Sometimes it's not sometimes it may be racist and bigots that are trying to get you on camera so they can surveil you and figure out your situation before making you a job offer or determine what kind of conditions you're working in. I mean, just so much. Anyway, the three reasons that the author lists out one is your background. And I'm going to read from the article now. In a utopic world, the area where you video conference will be well lit with a picturesque background. The reality of the situation is that many people for different reasons must teleconference from places like their bedrooms, kitchens, maybe even cars. What's in your background could elicit bias when in the workplace. It's easier to uphold a level of privacy. Once you are on a video conference while working from home. Some of that goes out the window. Onlookers are able to see parts of your home that they have never seen before. And they can get a deeper glimpse into your identity interests and other seemingly benign characteristics to recommendations for employees be mindful of your background and put some thought into the best place for a video meeting. Number two, your Wi Fi connection. Again, I'm going to continue to read the assumption in the United States is that everyone has strong and stable Wi Fi but for a number of Americans. That is not the case. A Pew Research Center study found that in 2019 73% of Americans had broadband or high speed internet service at home. Some employees at your company may be part of the 27% of Americans that do not have high speed internet at home. Three hair woes. Again, I'm going to continue to read a growing concern for black employees is appearance and professionalism while video conferencing One consequence of working from home is that the workday hours have been adapted. One report indicates that people are actually working more hours than what they would be working in their traditional workplace COVID-19 has shattered the work life balance with the perceived extra time that everyone supposedly has. Amen to that supposedly being the operative word on continue to read, there may be a greater expectation for video conference attendance and participation. For many black employees especially this is an added stressor since some have found that their hair routines and regimens have been modified because of COVID-19. For example, one's nighttime routine may now consist of spending an hour to twisting their hair for greater manageability since the hair salon is closed, and quote, these are all great points. You know, I myself do not like having to get up and worry about personal appearance on a phone call that or excuse me on a video call that could have been a phone call or an email. You know, most of the time living on a working farm and ranch. I'm either in like an old t shirt or old sweatshirt and jeans or athletic clothes of some kind. And I have had hair. I mean, I'm not walking around out here costumed up like Dolly Parton. That's not practical. For being on a working ranch. You have to be prepared to go outside and get dirty at any given time. And so I just I hate this idea that you're supposed to walk around camera ready at all times. I just think it's a load of BS. There's another article that I will link to from the University of Melbourne called are our new virtual workplaces equitable. The byline reads COVID-19 has changed the way many of us work. But our new virtual workplaces raise questions over privacy, data sharing and equity. One of the things they bring up is privacy concerns. And they mentioned this trend of zoom bombing where uninvited attendees break into a meeting and start disrupting it. There have even been situations of people yelling out racial slurs and bigoted comments. I mean, that's that's horrible. It is so sad to think that we live in a world where that still is happening. But unfortunately, that is the case. They also bring up the question of equity. And I'm going to read from the article now. The effects of digital poverty have become more apparent with some employees and students lacking access to the internet at home with others voicing concern that their children may not be able to access their schooling. It's often assumed that university students have their own laptop and a stable internet connection. But many still rely on university computer labs for their study. These labs are now closed and universities are trying to get these students up with access. Another topic they bring up not surprisingly, is increased surveillance. I'll read from that snippet of the article now. Employers can monitor their employees activity through apps or features like keystroke logging. Oh, for those with competing priorities at home like caring responsibilities or schooling children, a boss or colleague monitoring your engagement on a nine to five schedule is invasive and lacks empathy. Hello, Lou, you're so before I shift off this topic and return back to the logical finance video I want to say no, not everyone is using video conferencing platforms or video interviews as a way to actively discriminate against you. I just want you to be aware that unfortunately, even even in modern times, and we shouldn't still be dealing with this but we are there are bad actors out there who are using it for nefarious purposes. They may be trying to gauge your race they may try to gauge are you wearing a hijab or a kippah in the interview? What is the background look like? What kind of home are you living in? Do you have children What age are you, etc. These things that they're legally not allowed to ask you things that they're not allowed to discriminate against on a form or in a tradition Hiring setting, they may try to do that anyway, and use a video conferencing platform as their means of sussing out whatever bigoted lens they're seeing the world through. So again, just be careful. Now, if you're in a situation where you're freelancing, and you're like, I don't have any use for this video conferencing crap, I got out of corporate America to stop doing that mess. But I seem to be attracting clients who want that help. What do I do? You just stop. I mean, I understand. For some people that may seem really scary. But like for me, in my practice, when I stopped offering the Zoom calls are being on Skype being on Slack, I just stopped full stop. This is it, I'm shutting the door on it. And if I get on an intake phone call with someone or I'm emailing back and forth, and it becomes clear that they're like, clutch my pearls, I just can't imagine not using a zoom call, I don't mess with it. There's too much business to go around with people who will engage with you the way that you want to be engaged with. You don't have to make yourself a robot, you don't have to make yourself beholden to what these people want with a constant video chats or have a constant surveillance or we want to see how often your light was green on Microsoft Teams, or how often you were on Slack. We want to be able to time your bathroom breaks, know if that's not the way that you want to work. And I hope to God that it's not the way that you want to work. If indeed, it's not, then just stop doing it. No one rules if no one obeys, if you say I'm just not going to make this part of my practice, it's not a service I'm going to offer to you most of the time, the people who just cannot stand that will go away on their own, and you'll stop attracting them. Another strategy is just to simply call them out and say, Well, I don't offer zoom, or Skype or Slack channels in my practice, I'm curious to know, why do you need them? Tell me more about what's going on, and why that feels like a concern to you, or tell me why that's triggering some discomfort for you. And most of the time, you'll get the memo, they'll start stuttering and stammering Occasionally, you'll get the well, we just like togetherness, we like to collaborate, we like to know they're freelancers, just always, you know, one little Slack message away, they'll give you some kind of something, that's just a superfluous excuse, and you don't have to buy into it. Well, you can email me, you don't have to send me a message through slack, you can email me and at any point Monday through Friday, eight to five, it'll be responded to quickly. We don't have to get on slack for that. So you can get into their objections and overcome them if that's what you want to do. But I would say if it becomes clear to you that there's just a major imbalance between the amount of togetherness aka surveillance that they want and the amount you're comfortable giving them probably just better to part ways and not mess with it. Just my advice is Dennis Miller always said I could be wrong. Now back to the logical finance video. So in this video, they mentioned a post on Reddit that had gone viral. If I can find the post itself and link to it, I will otherwise you'll be able to see it in the logical finance video if you go there. But the idea is that this poster is talking about is that, okay, I have this job and I'm making this salary I'm working from home, I can't really go anywhere and do anything with it. So the person was spending it on creature comforts redoing the kitchen, redoing the bedroom, getting new furniture, getting electronic doodads, and then realized, I don't actually need any of the stuff that I just bought. It's like I'm on this wheel of consumerism. I'm spending this money that I'm making, but it's not really making me happy. And then the company that I'm working for, doesn't really care that much about me, like, I kind of realize I'm on a hamster wheel. I've touched on this before in other episodes, but I remember in my 30s working and pursuing all of these Straw Dogs that I was told were important things that I was supposed to want. You know, the way that I was explaining it to my friend is like, okay, one of the great things about getting into your 40s is that, at least for me, it was so incredibly liberating, like the the lack of GAF about things that don't matter. It's, it's really spectacular, you get more comfortable in your own skin, you get more clarity around who you are, what you want, what you don't want, what's important to you, and what isn't, what your values are, and it just releases you from so many things that are nonsensical. But in my 30s, you know, it's like, Alright, I'm chasing the dream here, man. You know, when you're a kid, you have to obey your parents, and then you go to school and you have to obey your teachers. And then when you go to college, even though you're an adult, I mean, technically speaking, you can go and buy alcohol and you could get drafted and go to war and all of that. You still have to obey Your professors, if you don't tow the line and do what they want you to do, they can flunk you, they can fail you out of the class, you don't really have a lot of recourse. So you have to, you have to tow that line, you have to do what you're told in order to keep them happy so that they'll pass you and you can get your degree. And when you think about it, listen, I just want to interject really quick. I'm not disparaging college education. All right, you're listening to someone that has three college degrees, I'm sitting, you're stroking my little devil beard, imaginary devil beard. Like, I've thought about going back and getting a PhD at different times. So I'm not against college education. So I don't want to get a bunch of hate mail here. But when you think about it, in that regard, your college education is great training for the corporate world, right? Because you're being told you put the bit in your mouth like a good little horsey, and you do what you're told otherwise will fail you. And then you won't get your degree and then you'll have to pay these student loans and bom, bom, bom bom, what's the same thing once you get out, you have a job. So then you have to tell them the line and do what your boss tells you, or they can fire you. And you're like, shit, I've got all these bills to pay, I don't want to be homeless, I don't want to live under a bridge. I don't want to default on my student loans, like I'm going to have to yet again, put the bit in my mouth and be a good little horsey. I don't be the type of person that job hops every week and just constantly gets fired. I'm gonna have to do this. You know, and I remember in the late part of my 30s, when I had I'd gotten to the point, man, you know, I was sitting in a corner office, and it was huge. I had this huge corner executive office. And it was obscenely oversized I mean, you could have thrown a banquet or had a party in this freaking office, it was so big and unnecessarily so gaudily. So in fact, I had a title at a flashy, flashy management title at a huge company. And I thought, you know, this is supposed to be making it. I sat back in my chair, and I stared out the window at a bunch of concrete and steel. It wasn't exactly like some wonderful, I don't know, Manhattan view of Central Park or something. And I'm like, this sucks. This is a hollow victory, a Pyrrhic victory. This is what I was told I was supposed to be chasing. And now that I'm here it doesn't feel very good. It doesn't fulfill me the way that I thought it might. And a lot of people are coming to that conclusion, whether it's through consumerism, buying things that they don't need, are trying to impress people that they don't really like their priorities have changed in the face of a life or death pandemic. And they just don't want to go back to the way that things were before there's been too much change too many too much of a shift in beliefs and priority to want to go back to getting up and getting dressed and putting on business formal wear and commuting and being button seat and being surveilled and yada, yada, blah, blah, blah. People just don't want that anymore. By and large. For me getting into the fourth decade, I really made a conscious decision. You know, I don't know how much time I have left, I would assume another 40 to 60 years on the planet, give or take a little, you know, assuming good health and no terrible accident or illness befalls me, that takes me out. Do I want to spend that time the way that I spent the first four decades? No, I don't. I'm just not the type of person that wants to put the bit in my mouth and be a good horse. I'm just not built that way. I never really have been, you know, when I was a kid, I didn't want to be a kid. I felt like an old soul, an adult trapped in a kid's body. And I hated having to obey other people. You know, most of the time, I could figure things out on my own, and my conclusions were generally spot on. So it was maddening for me to have to listen to other people and always do what I was told. And at this point, I would really say in so many ways, even though I get emails all the time from people, Hey, would you want to come back for full time work? No, no, I would not. In spite of my efforts to become an hireable. I'm getting all these invitations. And I'm like, I cannot imagine being but in seat for a company having someone surveil me all day, and not having the amount of control over my own schedule my own clientele what I will and will not do like to me, it's just unfathomable. And I'm glad that whether someone is trying to escape the cubicle life or whether they're at a company that they like, they're just trying to really suss out terms that work better for them. I'm glad that other people are coming to this awakening and saying if we're not treated respectfully, and with some basic human dignity, we'll just walk. Something else that I like in this logical finance video is that they bring up the 2009 or 2010 survey that the perfect salary for happiness is 75k. Now you may have an employer that still touts that around like that's the perfect number but You need to remember that's over a decade ago, and we've got some healthified inflation going on right now. So when you adjust it for the times, and you adjust it for inflation, that's more like 95,000 In today's market. And, you know, I guess I would agree, at least superficially, I think we're sort of, oh, gosh, this brings up something else that yeah, this is now that the wheels, the fly wheels are spinning in my brain. Like we're at a point in time. Where I think people are like Bud Fox in Wall Street. How many yachts Can you waterski Behind? How many mansions Can you live in? How many luxury cars and sports cars can you drive? You know, this idea of Gordon Gekko Greed is good. You can't have enough. There's no such thing as having enough. You always need to have more. It's a zero sum gam, pal. I think a lot of people are waking up to that and saying, no, no, I don't want to work myself to death. I don't want to live to work and constantly be mortgaged to my eyeballs. There's more to life than just that. But I am glad that they brought up in this video adjusting it for inflation. It's more like 95k. Now. So if you do have someone that's saying, Well, beyond 75k, the happiness curves flatten. It's like, well, it may be more like 95 or 100k in today's market. Now, does that make you a bad person? If you don't, you don't want to stop at some particular number. You don't believe that the happiness curve flattens? I would say no. I mean, sometimes in life, the more that we have, the more we're able to bless other people or give to charities or open or start a charity of your own have a nonprofit. So I don't really think it's necessarily fair in life to say, well, you just get to the happiness number, get to 95 or 100k. And stop. It's okay to want more. I just think you do have to balance out your priorities about what are you going to do with the extra money once you have it? Are you going to invest it? Do you want to leave a college fund? Do you want the grandkids to have a good inheritance Do you want to give to charity, like have some kind of why other than just I want morals or charm. One of the reasons why this topic is brought up in the logical finance video is to say it's not always or only about money. So for example, if someone is making 50k, and you offer to raise their salary to 52, is not going to make a big enough difference in their life to overcome mistreatment. Crappy hours, Mike the micromanager boss or a Ned the needy supervisor, that's just all the time up their butt, probably not. Having a good, decent, respectful place to work is important. And just throwing money at the problem as if to say, I don't know, it's like prostitution, I'm gonna leave the money on the dresser. You know, you your need to sit here and submit to whatever I tell you to do, or else. Well, most people during the Great resignation are just simply saying or else we will leave Yes, it's important to be paid well and to be paid fairly. But we don't want to sit here in a toxic cesspool in order to get access to that money. And the reason why I said the wheels were starting to turn inside my brain is because I just the other day, was having this conversation with a friend about Gordon Gekko, and how I had somehow lived long enough to see Gordon Gekko go from being like the everything that was wrong. In the 1980s. He was supposedly the zeitgeist of that age. Greed is good and cheat people through the stock market and insider trading is not bad. If you don't get caught just doing whatever succeed by any means necessary and understand that it's never enough. If you have to step on someone's toes. If to break someone's back to get to the top. Just keep doing it. Just always keep after that incessant pursuit of wealth, more is always the better option. There's never going to be enough. But then there was Wall Street to where Gordon Gekko is like somewhat humble. He's still up to his old tricks, but he's somewhat humbled. And he goes to this lecture hall and gives the most cogent explanation of the housing bubble and the housing crisis that I've ever freaking heard. He's giving the speech and he talks about Oh, someone reminded me recently that I once said, greed is good. Apparently now it's legal in the audience chuckles a bit. And he said, but you know, it's greed that makes my bartender buy three houses he can't afford with no money down. It's greed that makes your parents refinance their $200,000 house for 250. Then they take that extra 50 and go down to the mall and they buy plasma TVs, new cell phones, computers, SUVs, you know, and while we're at it, how about we just buy another house because hey, we know in America the prices of houses only go up. You know, and one of the reasons why this has been on my mind and why I was having this conversation, my friend Other days, because, you know, I'll pull the curtain back a little bit here on some of the work that I've been doing with my wartime called ciliary. I've gotten to a position where I have outgrown what I have, and more specifically, my animals definitely have in order for me to continue expanding, and to do the type of work that I really want to do with more animals and do some additional rescuing and things of that nature, I just need more space. You know, animals eat grass. And if they start running out of pasture space, then you have to figure out ways of feeding them. And then you also want to make sure that they have an adequate amount of space to run around and to do animal things. So I've been looking and Oh, my God, is it insane? It is really, really insane. Someone can take a shotgun shack with blown out windows and one room, set it on 10 acres and say I want half a mil for it. And there are idiots willing to pay that. I mean, I'm just like, Oh, my God, you have to know you have to know, if you've lived long enough, you have to know this bubble is gonna burst. It doesn't last forever. And I remember talking to this kid realtor. And I essentially told him that I said, there's no way that I'm going to pay like if somebody's got a burned out house, a place where you know, the roof is caving in and they want top dollar for it. There's no way I'm gonna pay that this bubble is going to burst. And he was like, well, maybe no, no properties around here always seem to hold their value. I mean, they're always gonna rebound. And I thought kid, just don't. I feel like I quote Captain America a lot. He's not even my favorite Marvel character. But it seemed to always come back to his quote, it's like, son, just don't. You know, I've lived too long. I've seen the bubbles burst before and they're going to again, the property values and housing values are so grossly inflated. I mean, places where, let's say, Good pasture land, in normal circumstances might be five grand an acre, those people are wanting 30. Can you imagine that? Can you imagine? I mean, to me, the amount of markup on that is insane. And it won't last. That's the thing, kids, so don't get sucked into what Gordon Gekko is talking about in Wall Street to like, oh, well, houses are so cheap, I guess I'll buy three of them. Or on the other side of the spectrum where we're at now. Oh, my God, everything's so expensive. I guess in order to get what I want. I'm just going to have to bend myself over and grossly overpay for this property. Be really, really careful with those types of financial decisions. Because when the bubble burst, and it will, do you want to go through a foreclosure or bankruptcy because that's a very real concern. And if you haven't seen Wall Street two, you absolutely must watch Gordon Gekko speech in that film. It is excellent. And it is as relevant now. As it was when the film came out 10 or 11 years ago. There's an interesting article on Forbes called the Great resignation isn't really a thing something else is. And the author Dan Pontefract has a thesis that it's not really the great resignation. It's the great contemplation. Interesting. Now I'm going to read an excerpt from this article. The more alarming statistic has to do with what is brewing. It doesn't seem to matter what research you review or what survey has been conducted, it seems that almost everyone is thinking about moving on to a new role. For example, according to a recent survey, by job search site job list, 73% of respondents are considering quitting their roles in 2020. Excuse me, I said 2020, 2022. It's always hard to wrap my mind around that. Now I'm going to go a little further down in the article where he asks what's really happening? Now more than ever before people are doing the mental and emotional legwork wondering, is my boss a jerk? Or are they kind? Do my teammates care about me? Does my organization stand for something? Am I paid, fairly respected and valued? Is the culture something I can work in? Is hybrid or flexible, work allowable? Am I unfulfilled or fulfilled in my role? That's what is different people are swimming in a cocoon of questions. The year 2022 seems more careful this time in 2022 is going to see contemplation turn into a talent war. In fact, it's no longer going to be coined a talent war, we're headed for a talent apocalypse, in quote. So if you're listening to this broadcast, and you're thinking, Okay, I'm not like the people Gordon Gekko is talking about I don't want to try to go and buy a whole bunch of junk that I don't need. I don't want to go and grossly overpay for some inflated place to live. I can make do I can live beneath my means for a while. Frankly, you're already in a great spot because people who are Still, on the hamster wheel, they're still in the rat race of I've got to keep up with the Joneses. And if she gets a McMansion, I need one. And if he's got a better car than me, I've got to bust my ass until I get one better than him. If you're already at that point where you can live beneath your means you're doing better than people that are trapped in that consumerism Hill, the best advice that I can give you is that it is never too early to start looking at an exit strategy. And in light of what these authors are talking about this talent, Apocalypse is coming, it's going to be harder than ever to try to get people in the door at your company, this is a great opportunity for you to negotiate things out. I remember when I was trying to finesse my transition out of corporate America, you know what I call my best friend, Johnny. And I'm like, okay, permission to freak out, you know, I know, I know that the times drawing nigh for me to leave, and be out on my own full time again, and I'm freaking out. And I remember him saying to me, so clearly negotiate things out the way that you want them to go. That's what I would say to all of you listening, negotiate things out the way that you want them to go, you have more leverage, and more buying power than you ever have before. Use it. We don't know where the market may take us five to 10 years from now. So use it, carve out exactly the situation that you want. If you want to stay in corporate America, you don't want to work for yourself, per se, but you want to have a more flexible schedule, you want to have more PTO, you don't want to work for a boss that's a micromanager or a complete heard all the time, then don't pick out exactly what you want. There's no better time to go shopping for exactly the right type of place than now. If you have decided that you need to escape the cubicle life and go out on your own, then begin laying the groundwork for that before you ever leave, negotiate on a more flexible schedule so that you have time to freelance, you can get that proof of concept going, you can get some positive reviews under your belt. And you can formulate some some sort of nest egg calculate out what you think you would need to be able to survive during a dry spell or some kind of lean period, stack your cash. And then when you feel like the time is right, you can get the hell out of dodge and you'll be in a safer place when you do it. Because I was the person that jumped off the cliff and hoped that the parachute would open and it didn't and I went splat at the bottom of the Grand Canyon, I don't personally recommend that you do that. I think it's a good idea to have your ducks in a row and to be in a financially solvent position. With business already coming in. If you already have clients, you already have repeat customers, that's a little bit easier in making the transition than just jumping off the cliff and then hoping for the best. But if anybody is trying to be discouraging, or they're trying to disempower you and act like Well, no, you just need to sit here and be a cog in the machine or good things happen for other people, but not for you. These other people can quit and freelance full time and still pay their bills. But that probably won't work for you zip it up. You don't you don't need to have that negative self talk going on in your own brain. And you also don't need to listen to it from other people either. You're always gonna have some people in the cheap seats that want to yell and throw concessions and act like idiots, to the people that are down in the arena, fighting the good fight. So I would highly encourage you to take really good care of yourself. And while you're in this great contemplation, if you conclude that you're my boss is a jerk and I need to get out of here or this work that I'm doing. It's paid my bills all these years, but I am not fulfilled by it at all. And I just don't see myself doing this for another 25 to 30 years. It's no better time than now to start thinking about what you would like to do instead. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you haven't already, please take a quick second to subscribe to this podcast and share it with your friends. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next time.