Biggest Fan Leadership with Jason Patterson (My Pastor!)

This conversation is truly an honor to share with you! My pastor, Jason Patterson, is the most epic fan of people.

In his brand new book, From Your Biggest Fan, he shares about being someone's biggest fan! This idea and practice is so counter-cultural. Jason gives practical steps for carrying this out and how to wage war on "me-centered" living and leadership.

JASON'S BOOK: "From Your Biggest Fan"

Follow Jason on IG:
instagram.com/JasonMPatterson

Pastor Nate Ruch Message

Book "Tale of Three Kings"

Craig Groeschel & Bob Goff Podcast

Transcript

Today's guest you've heard me share about many, many times before actually, in one of my most recent episodes, I mentioned this guest you remember that conversation on the pressure to be great and talked about somebody asking me, Man, that's a lot of pressure to put on yourself to not want to die and be forgotten. Well, that conversation was with this man. He is my friend and my pastor. His name is Jason Patterson. He is an incredible, incredible gift to myself and to my family. It's really the community I get to live in. Jason spent the first decade and a half of his career traveling widely as a speaker. In 2015, Jason and his wife Andrea moved to Fishers Indiana to launch Parkside church with an amazing group of people. And today, he continues to lead that church that my family gets to be part of and has recently written his very first book, which is insane. His book is called from your biggest fan. I'm like, 75% of the way through it. And let me tell you, friends, it is incredible. So he is passionate about helping people discover their God given potential. It's evident in everything he does. He and Andrea live here in the Indianapolis area with their three young kids datas Declan, and the amazing Rowan. Jason, I'm so excited to have you on today's episode of so what welcome. Thank you so much. Like first, I mean, it's really just an honor for me and Andrea and our family to be a part of your life. And then it's an honor to be just on this podcast, it's been awesome to watch, you kind of go through this journey and have the dream of of this podcast and like, be passionate about getting messages that are important to you out to people and ministering to them. And then for it to become a reality has been really cool. And then and now to be just part of it is a blast and an honor. So I'm looking forward to chatting today. Thank you. Yeah, you're like they're at the inception of this, like I remember years ago, sharing with you about my dream to do a podcast and you're like, Well, why are you waiting? I'm like, I don't know.
And so you were literally there at the very, very, very beginning. So thank you. And it's such an honor to have you here. And it's so cool that all of my friends that are part of this community get to hear your voice because again, I have mentioned you. I was thinking about this last night I was like, Okay, what episodes have I talked about Jason and I know the pressure to be great. I for sure I've talked about you. And one of my episodes about grace. I've talked about Andrea. And then in one of my episodes about materialism, I've talked about you like okay, I know at least three times people have heard about you guys, I'm sure it's more but I can like concretely. Think about the that you guys have been a part of this three times. And so it's no secret from the way anybody talks about your shares about you, that you love people. It was actually just like, on a personal note, that love of yours that Andrew and I felt that led us to being a part of Parkside church, like we had been in full time vocational ministry, and you had offered us the invitation to come and be a part of a church plant. And it was your love that was like, Okay, let's, let's do this. And,
yeah, you didn't want anything from us, like you weren't, like, come and do this so that we can have your skill set here. Instead, you were really big on wanting something for us. And that was something for our dreams to become a reality. Like you again, years ago, you'd ask me what I want to do. I was like, I'd love to do something like podcasting or YouTubing. And you're like, Alright, can be a part of Parkside. And we can help you get there. And I'm like, What are you talking about, and you and since the moment that we've landed here, you've been our biggest fan. And that's one thing that this book is that you've written about, and that you want to be people's biggest fan, you want to be people's champion and cheerleaders. And let's just be honest, this kind of approach to being people's fans, like not wanting something from them instead of wanting something for them, especially again, from a leader is totally countercultural, and you unpack this quite a bit in your book from your biggest fan. So can you tell me where your passion for being people's biggest fan like was birthed from? Oh, yeah. That's a great question.
And people will realize, like our friends who are listening in today, like if they get a chance to read the book that I'm like, I didn't write that book. You know, I mean, I appreciate what you're saying about me. And I'm definitely doing my best to be these things. But I didn't write the book because I am the person or leader that I want to be. It was really more just because I felt like I was getting clarity on the person and the leader that I want to be
really like this passion for championing people and seeing
the potential in them, it just came from a couple of things. And it kind of like in tandem, it was really seeing something, you know, just in Scripture that like, kind of jumped out at me, you know, as like, the Holy Spirit really used
a verse of Scripture, and then put people in my life who were amazing, and really inspirational examples of like, fulfilling this this scripture, and it's, it's Ephesians 210. It's my life verse. And it's the whole book, you know, from your biggest fan, it's really just an outworking of the first sentence of that. That scripture, it's just For we are God's masterpiece. That's what it says. And so because that is true, that means there is like unseen God given potential in every person. We all know all the reasons why we struggle to see that we all know like, we're sinners in need of a Savior. And just like we're not perfect, but like God says that we're his masterpiece. So like, that means there genuinely is a beauty, and a, and just an amazing potential in every person. And the question is like, how do we discover that? And like I said, I just had some people like the hero of my book really is my wife's grandpa, David Mainz, who led a huge ministry, like in his day, and among his generation, he was a very well known person and personality. But he had this unique way of leading that you were kind of alluding to a minute ago, that's really countercultural, like he was enormously successful. Like he pioneered Christian television in Canada. He was like the Billy Graham of Canada, a household name. He was Canada's pastor.
And he had this huge ministry, he had this like, maybe for, you know, again, people who are listening in and maybe you lead in ministry, or you lead a church, or you lead a business or just like you're trying to lead your family like, right, like, wherever, you know, you lead, you've got some dreams and some things you're trying to accomplish. And grandpa was one of those people, he had lots of things he wanted to accomplish. But he used this huge platform that God had given him for the benefit of everyone else. Like he literally just had a dream, and he invited people to be a part of it. But what he was really hoping for was an invitation to be a part of their dream, and the dream that God had for them. And when I saw that, I it just, it stood out like it was different. Like I hadn't really seen that before, I'd seen lots of visionary leaders who, who knew how to speak about what God had called them to do and was, you know, making them passionate about with with kind of the vision they had for themselves in their ministry. But then they didn't have like that kind of secondary step that I saw in grandpa, where they were able to just go yep, this is what God called me to and be really clear and compelling about that. But then just really, like spend their time trying to figure out who everybody else was in what God had made them to do. And again, that that, that beauty and it wasn't just,
you know, my wife, grandpa's other people as well. He's kind of the prime example of it. And that's one of my favorite things about the book is like, people just get to meet grandpa like, which I think is really cool. He passed away in 2017. And again, he's from a generation kind of gone by, like you, his ministry and everything, you know, was largely happened before a lot of our listeners were, were born. But it's so it's really cool. But basically, it's just like, I felt like God spoke to me something through Scripture. And then he just put some incredible people in my life who inspired me. And writing the book again, like, my hope is that it's inspiring to others. But the book is also just kind of my journey with trying to figure this out. And like, how do I do this? And how can I lead? Not just like grandpa, like, I want to lead a little bit more like grandpa, as I learned to lead more like Jesus, right? Like, we've all got people like that in our lives, who we're trying to be a little bit like them, but only because it's helping us be a little bit more like Jesus. Come on. That's so good. And, yeah, I have your book right here. And Pastor David was introduced pretty early on for free. And although I've never met him, I feel like him just from knowing that I love that. And,
you know, his approach is so different. And I guess I I want to camp out in this for a second because so much of leadership culture that has been popular for decades. Like I wouldn't even just say it's like unique to, you know, 2022 it is been around forever is that I am the leader, and this is my vision, come along and be a part of what I'm doing. Yeah. And what Pastor David shared on and what you're posing in the conversation of this book is
Okay, if I'm a leader, it's not that people come along, and they get on board with what I'm doing instead, as a leader, I'm coming along and doing whatever it is other people are doing. And that is so different. That is so different. And I mean, just to give like, just a little bit more, not that you need more credibility, but like you pass or you preached for, like, 1415 years, yeah, really big stages all over the world. And then you decided to church plant, like you're preaching in front of 10s of 1000s of people.
All year long, and then you're like, no plane to church and Fishers, Indiana and a city I've never lived in my life.
So like, you do exude this, like I love that. Like you you say like, this is the leader I want to become but you do exude a lot of this. Like I'm not propping up so like, I made I'm getting ahead of the conversation. But can you like just share with me? Why is it so engrained into leadership culture of like, if I'm the leader, you come with me, instead of, if I'm the leader, I go with you, like, I got something from you, I want something for you. Yeah, it's, um,
it's a, it's a tough one to understand like, like, because we do hear this all the time. Like, we're talking about having vision, especially in the church world, like vision for ministry and vision for, you know, what we feel like God has called us to do and, and again, like, God just put some really good people in my life, I feel very, very fortunate that, like, I had examples, and people who did this, well, that I could be inspired by, and then I could, you know, try to mirror what they're doing in my own life. And so I found some, some things like from others that were really helpful. And people will see this in the book, there's a chapter called moonshot, where it was like, I knew I wanted to lead like I had seen grandpa and others lead, but it was like, it was like, I was trying to do this equation, but I didn't have the math, like I didn't know how to do what I had been inspired to do. And there's like, some things I've found that were, were helpful. And one of them was that when when we're leading, there is a corporate vision that we're inviting people into, and that that's true in ministry, in church and church planting. And like, if you're leading a youth ministry, your kids or, you know, like, whether you lead a business, whether you lead a classroom, whether you lead coworkers like or just you're leading your own your friends, like just wherever you have influence in life like it, but if you're trying to, like accomplish something, you're gonna need people to help you you are. But we, we make the mistake of thinking that it's our job to get everybody to buy into what we're doing. When the truth is, I think it's better if we understand it, that it's our job.
To just like, have a friend, again, people can read about in the book, but the way he says it is that as a leader, he says I just point to the horizon. And I tell everybody where we're going, like, this is the vision, this is where we're going, he says, but then I don't spend any time trying to get anyone on my page. I spend all my time trying to get them on their page. And then if like their page and my page go together a great like will make the same book like it's
in that was language that he used that was extremely helpful for me because the the mistake that we can make, is thinking that we need to tell everybody, hey, this is what God's put on my heart. This is what I'm trying to accomplish. This is what I'm trying to do. I need people to help me when I was planting a church, I needed people to help me we had people move, they quit their jobs, some of them their dream jobs, like to leave home, leave family move away. Like they did crazy things to follow it like there was a corporate dream for Parkside church that I had. But it's not my job to convince the whole world to be a part of it. That's actually God's job. And that's where we make the mistake. It's when we think that it's our responsibility to get everybody to buy into us and what we're doing. It's our job to clearly communicate what God is calling us to do. Please be clear and compelling with whatever dream god has given you. But then don't spend your life trying to make everybody be a part of it. You decide like you can't know God brings all kinds of people into our lives. There is no way for us to know which of those people God is calling to be a part of our dream, and which ones we can know that it's just actually the opposite. It's just God is bringing them into our lives, but it's just so that we can be a part of their dream and their race and their journey. So here's what I would say point if you're a leader point to the horizon, tell everybody where you're going invite them into that corporate dream, but then spend all your time trying to get them on their page, help them understand who they are, help them understand what their passions are.
Help them understand what their dreams are. And it might mean they're an incredibly gifted and talented person. But God is not actually calling them to run your race with you. He's just asking you to run your race with them. And that is the only thing you can worry about. You can't know who they might be for your life, what you can know is who you're supposed to be for their life, and you're supposed to run their race. And if I, if it sounds like, I'm kind of like, being forceful with how I say this did, because I am, like, I'm like begging people, like, please just know who you can be in their life be determined to get to their finish line with them. And if God's gonna call them to be a part of your team, and help you with your journey and help you with your dream, that's gonna happen, but let it happen because of Jesus. And not because we took this beautiful dream that he gave us, and kind of just tried to kind of make everybody be passionate about it, people will be passionate about it. But there's going to be some really talented people who actually their page in your page, don't, they kind of don't belong in the same book in that sense. And you just your your role in their life is going to be helping them figure out where their page goes. And it might mean that they leave your organization, it might mean they're not on your team, it just means you're on their team. And it might mean they just need to write their own book. Like, that's up to Jesus. It's not, it's not up to us. That's so good. And I think
I'm, I've read the book, that Tale of Three Kings, like every year, sometimes. Classic. Yeah. And it's called, I'll link it in the show notes. But
Jean Edwards, he writes a narrative story of King Saul. And then at the time, just Shepherd David, not even David, and, and then eventually transitions into King David. And it talks a lot about this idea of like, you know, Saul was this like, leader who was threatened by everyone around him. So much so that David here he was super gifted in like military tactics and gifted in music. And he was from what Scripture tells us like an attractive individual. And as a result of it, like, saw, like, needed him but hated him. And instead of saying, Okay, God, what do you want to do with David's life? It was like, okay, David, you are in competition with my life, like you are threatening my Venus king. And so I guess I want to make this more open ended than yes or no question. But what do you think keeps people from operating in this way as instead of like, because we know Yeah, it's like, clearly laid out picture. And this is the way Jesus was like Jesus, he met people where they were at, he came to them, like he didn't demand it was always an invitation. It was never a demand of, hey, I'm Christ, the King. You know, you must come and follow me. It's like, you're gonna be miserable for like, it was always an invitation. And to this day, it's still an invitation. Like, so what keeps us from operating in that way, where it's more of a demand instead of like, an invitation or seeing other people's gifts and talents as a threat? Right? Yes, this is a great question. So let's, let's do this. You mentioned you put a link in the show notes to Jean Edwards book like tail, three kings, like we're just let's hook up the audience for a second. Okay, so I'm gonna throw out a couple other things. And then we'll, we'll get these links in the show notes as well. One, like I mentioned a moment ago, like the language that I got from people like points of the horizon, get them on their page that comes from
Bob Gough and I heard it first in a podcast, it's a conversation in an episode of Craig Groeschel leadership podcast. So I highly recommend everybody listened to it, we'll link it in the show notes. It is one of my favorite all time conversations about leadership, the whole like, invite people to the corporate dream that you have, and, and then hope for the invitation into their personal dream that language is from Mark Patterson's church, national community out in Washington DC. And we can like put a link to the webpage where they have this you know, so like full credit to everybody. And then I'm about to throw out another person here because this like, we're just gonna hook everybody else up with this. So I've recently heard a message at the church multiplication Network Conference from Nate Roche. And we all get the link we're gonna hook you up. But here's how he said it. And I think this speaks really into the question that you're asking. One of the things that keeps us from doing this is that we think we're the wrong person in the biblical story. We all want to be David. And we want to be made king. But the truth is, I think that God's really calling us to be Samuel and be the kingmaker.
Like, we
You want to be David, we want to be the Chosen One, we want to be the anointed one. And what God is calling us to do is be the one who anoints others like to find the David's, God is calling us to search for David, find the people with the potential and be the one who sees that in them and calls them to fulfill their destiny to become who God made them to be. Like, when when Nate preached it full credit to him, anybody who's like, wow, that's really good. It was Nate's sermon, I just but I love the way he said that. And I think it's true. Like, we want to be the one we want to be the anointed. And we don't really want to necessarily take that role. But I think it is. It doesn't mean God doesn't have a calling for our life, it doesn't mean that God's not going to do great things through us. But our role and our job, like let God determine all of that stuff. Like our job is to see what's in other people.
Like, for everybody who gets a chance to read the book, it is all about discovering that's the subtitle discovering the potential of those we love and lead, it's about their potential and discovering that. But it's, I believe the same thing about all of us. Like, if you're reading the book, you have amazing potential, you have incredible God given potential you are God's masterpiece, my argument in the book is that the best way to discover it is to give your life to discovering everybody else's potential. Like I'm asking you to trust in the biblical principle of sowing and reaping. If you make your life all about discovering the potential and others, God will take care of you. I'm asking you to trust Jesus with this.
In it's really hard to do, like you said, like, what is it that keeps us from doing this? And I think to be honest, there's several hurdles we talked about few of them in the book, people will find it in like part two of the book. It's just five hurdles. And they're the ones I tried to jump in just fell flat on my face. But the biggest one, I think, in all honesty, I think it's it's our battle with insecurity. Yeah. Like we insecurity really messes up a lot of stuff.
Like, it's just really hard for people to succeed. When we're operating from our insecurities, it's really hard for us to succeed, it's really hard for anybody else. It's just it. It just robs us of so much. And the reason is that because when we operate out of our insecurity, it makes us need a gift from everyone who follows us. We need them, to acknowledge us, we need them to applaud us, we need them to appreciate us like when we lead out of insecurity, we have this huge need, and we turn everybody else into the answer to our need. When we're supposed to be as leaders, we're supposed to, like if we can all say it this way, if we can operate from a place of security, then our leadership becomes the gift that they need. Because we don't need anything from them. We are able to trust that God will make our dream that he gave us become a reality. We trust God that he'll bring the right people onto our team for the right seasons of life. Like that God will take care of all of this stuff. And then we're just free to make our lives and our leadership about everybody else. And there is an incredible beauty that happens when we leave that way. Like like Jesus, frankly, it's just leading like Jesus, like we could just sum up just some of the whole book in that sentence. Like it's just
in like kind of an argument for leading like Jesus, I tried to do it in a really interesting and inspirational way. And like, I hope I got it. But that's that's what I'm like calling for, um, one of my favorite
stories about Jesus is in Mark chapter 10 of the famous story, James and John come to Jesus, and they're like, hey, when you come into your kingdom, you know, can we like be the two most important people in your kingdom? And like, I'm clearly paraphrasing, is it Jesus is like a, you know, he's like, You have no idea what you're asking for. Like, when I come into My Kingdom, I'll be hanging on a cross. And the two people on my right and left will also be hanging on crosses. And you probably don't want that role. Like, like, you don't know what you're asking for Jesus says, and then he goes into this explanation about how his followers will use authority and influence. And he just goes, you guys know how everybody in the world does it. The people in the world only help others who they think will be the biggest help to them in return. Everything they do is selfish. Jesus is saying, that's how people in his day Jesus goes the people with wealth and influence and power.
They only helped out kind of the people on the bottom that they thought would be the biggest help to them and what they were trying to do, and Jesus was like, it will not be this way with you. And then he says
famously, Mark 1045
He says that the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve and give his life as a ransom for many, like, probably almost everybody listening in, could have quoted it, right. And it's a statement about what he's going to do, and how he's going to do it. Jesus is like I am, I am going to selflessly give of myself for the benefit of everybody else. And it's a statement of purpose, it's a statement of what he's going to do again, and how he's going to do it. But that's not how it starts. It starts with a statement about identity. Jesus says, For the Son of Man, it starts, that verse actually starts with a statement about who Jesus is. And it's that, you know, he used that title all the time. You know, we're really familiar with it. It's like all over the Gospels, it was Jesus like, favorite
phrase, to use to describe himself and, and ultimately, you know, that it comes from Daniel, and it's about a figure who will go through an intense season of suffering and then be exalted on the clouds to heaven and be literally seated at the right hand of God Almighty, it in place equal to God and throne in heaven, you know, this this majestic, unbelievable scene, right? And Jesus is like, he's like, I know who I am. I'm that guy. Like, I'll be seated, I know where my throne is, like, I'm good. And because he knew who he was, he could selflessly give of himself. And that is the process Jesus wants to take us through. He wants us to know who we are, and become comfortable with who we are. Because then we can live and love and lead like him. So it is possible. But we've got to be honest about our insecurities, a bunch of other stuff, too. But this is like the top of the list, like we've got to be honest about our struggle with insecurity, and the need that we have from others. And we've got to start finding our security in the, obviously in the biblical place, in in Jesus Himself. And then we can operate from a place of security. And that's ultimately like, what was different about grandpa about David mains, is he was an incredibly secure person, he had huge vision and great dreams that God had given him. But he just he knew God was going to take care of it. And he operated from the security like he didn't need people to tell him how awesome he was, he didn't need anybody to tell him how amazing his vision was. He didn't need any of that. He spent his whole life telling everybody else how incredible they were and how amazing they were. And, again, people will read, obviously, there's a lot more in the book about him and the stories that I'm not sharing, I'll just leave that for if people get a chance to read the book. But it is just it was incredible, the way that this all unfolded in his life and in His ministry. And there is just a beauty that that unfolds in our lives, when we keep digging in to relationship with Jesus and find our identity and find our security in him and then operate in this incredible freedom, where it's just like, I don't have to force anybody. I don't have to make anybody be passionate about my calling, and my dream and my vision, Jesus is going to do an amazing job of taking care of that. I will just point to the horizon. Tell everybody where I'm going, where God's calling, and if their page and my page go together? Amazing. If not, I'm going to run their race with them if they go to my finish line with me. Thanks, Jesus, right. But here's what I know is I'm going to get to their finish line with them. Hmm, so good. So good.
So, so good. Jason. And I love like earlier you did say if I sound like forceful or like passionate about this, it's because I am like, and this is, I think, in order to really fulfill the purpose in which God has laid on each of our lives like to fulfill the God given potential and us like to truly fulfill it, we have to start operating in this sense, because if we do view other people, as pawns, like you talk about in your book, instead of people with potential, we're going to miss out on what it is that God wants to do, yes, life but also in our life. And so like, I want to be a person that lives fully engaged with a purpose of God for my life, but if I'm so wrapped up only in my purpose, and I forget about the people around me, like I'm actually going to miss the purpose and what she's created me for. And so I love that you're being so passionate about this and I love that you're being so black and white like this isn't like a
Give or take kind of conversation. It's like no, if you want to be the kind of leader that God has called you to be, this is the next step for you. Like if you want to be a long haul, Healthy Leader, fulfilling God's purpose and potential for your life, being a biggest fan is not like a sub priority, it needs to be a top priority.
So walk us through, like, obviously, we need to, like look like do some introspective work about our insecurity. But what would you say we could do? Starting today? Like right now following this conversation? To be someone's biggest fan?
Yeah, I think that's a good question and try to, you know, like, bring it down to the street where we we live and go like, okay, like, great idea. Yeah. But like, how do I do this? And
I want to answer that in a second. But I want to just say one, one kind of extra thing about what what we were just talking about is like, um, sometimes it happens, like, as leaders, we can kind of start treating people like a commodity, or like a, like, kind of pawns in the game that we're playing. And I just want to say like, that it is really, really important if you're listening today. And you're like, having one of those moments that Christians are super good at, like when we figure out who the altar call is for, you know what I mean? We're like, Oh, I hope so. And so hurt that, you know what I mean? Like, I know, somebody needs to raise their hand. You know, like, though, one of the, if you're having one of those moments, it's really important to remember, and to realize that we are all perfectly capable of making that mistake. Yeah. And that we probably make it more than we would like to admit. So if we maybe are having a finger pointing moment, at others, I would just invite you to let the Holy Spirit speak to you. Because there is no leader no matter how guilty they may have been up to this. And I've been guilty of it too. Again, people when they read the book, they'll they'll figure it out, I didn't.
Perfect at this ad. I'm not the hero of this story. I have messed this up. So many times, I have moments I'm just I'm ashamed of because I just I got it wrong. No, there is no leader who ever set out to be this way. There is no journal entry anywhere in somebody's like, well, you know, private journal, where they were like, you know, what I want to do? I want to treat people like I own them. Like, nobody does that. So let God really, um, into this conversation and into your heart.
As you kind of wrestle with like, Hey, how can how can I do this, and to just be honest about maybe like, the insecurity that we're operating in, or the unresolved pain we're operating from, or whatever that may be, but
in now, now, the question you actually asked, right, that was all just a little aside. But um, it's so I think, if people will see in the book, this is part three is the way forward, there's three habits that get talked about, and there's like several chapters that go, you know, with each habit, kind of fleshing it out. But what what the book is asking people to do is like, a biggest fan of others is to, to learn who they are, love who they are, and tell them who they are. That's it. It's really simple. That's one of the things I love about this is it's like actually not complicated at all. And again, there's like, you'll find, like kind of skills and
practical ways to learn who people are, love who they are, and tell them who they are. I'll just throw out one. That I mean, I don't know it might be my favorite or something I don't maybe it's the one I'm most passionate about. But I think that one thing will really help us. We talk about this here at Parkside church all the time we talk about it in the in the book.
I think it's chapter nine, or 10. I think it's chapter nine. But we we talked about having the journalist mindset. And journalists are in search of the same thing all the time. They're just in search of a story. That, you know, they don't, if they don't find a story, they don't have a job. And so journalists have to become really, really good at asking questions. Because questions lead to stories, statements don't like you can't find out who somebody else is, if you do all the talking. They're gonna find out who you are. And that's fine, that has its time that has its place as leaders, obviously, we have to talk about ourselves. Sometimes we have to talk about what we're doing like that's, please don't like misunderstand what I'm saying like that has its place. But questions are one of the most powerful tools we have. So if you want to be somebody's biggest fan, if you want to champion people, you have to figure out who they are.
And we are so much better at seeing the potential and each other than we are at seeing it in ourselves. Like we all need each other's help with this. So one of the best things you can do is just ask more questions and make less statements. That's it six words.
Ask more questions, make less statements, it will you will be astonished at what you discover in in other people and about other people. If you will just ask questions and and become a good listener, like we could talk, we could just do a whole podcast on this. But leaders, our listeners, like I'll just I'll say it again, just for emphasis leaders, our listeners, and maybe that's not a skill, we have honed, and I would just challenge you get good at it. Like it's a hard one for me to like, my whole life. Like you mentioned, like the first 14 years of my professional life, all I did was talk like literally that was my job.
And it's a skill I am am trying to get better and better at, because they're just there are beautiful things that that happen. And I'll just wrap it up by saying this the master the absolute master at asking questions, was Jesus Himself. And it's just another way that we can be like Jesus questions help you discover who people are. They also confer worth on to other people. Because when you ask questions, it shows people that you're interested in them and be like them understanding how interested you are begins to show how much you care. And it helps people understand that they matter, and that they have value. And I'll wrap it up with that there's loads more about it in the book, and I hope people get a chance to pick it up and and read it. It was a blast to write. I was very hard, very, very hard. But I loved writing it. And I really, really hope that people love reading it. Yeah. So good. Have that journalist mindset. Leaders Ask questions, they ask more questions, make less statements. I feel like that is such a practical way that we can begin to so intentionally in the area of being somebody's biggest fan, like immediately, like following this conversation. Jason, thank you for taking the time to write the book. And like you said, I know it's incredibly hard, it was incredibly challenging. You invested a ton of your time and resources to make it happen. So friend, I want to encourage you to pick up this book, I'm so enjoying it right now, from your biggest fan, you can literally find it wherever you get books. I'm going to link the Amazon book in my show notes so that you can get it off of Amazon. And I'm telling you you're gonna enjoy it. I was telling Jason before we even started this recording was that the book is really easy to read. Like it's it feels like a conversation like it's not like some like book like your thumping way out and it's like hard to read. It is so fun and so enjoyable. So trust me, friend, you're gonna want to read it. And then Jason also has another incredible resource. also linked in the show notes called biggest fan leaders. You'll see the website their biggest fan leaders.com you'll hear more about what he is sharing on about discovering the God given potential in every single person. And so you're gonna love the resources and everything that we mentioned from Craig Rochelle and Mark Patterson to Nate Ruess, which side note, Andrew told me. That was the best sermon he's ever heard in his life. That neighbors sermon anyway echo it. It was unbelievable. Like, we'll put the link in the show notes. Go listen to it. Yeah, he was like and I Okay, real talk, he sent me the link. I've not listened to it. So I was like putting a fire under me to go into it. So we will have all of that linked in the show notes. Jason, thank you so much for spending your time investing in us and thank you for being somebody that we can follow who is following Christ and thank you for being authentic and vulnerable and real. And thank you for being authentic and vulnerable and real not just here but also in your book. It is so refreshing and exciting, right? Like you like call yourself out and like I would do that in my book. But you do it and it's it just makes it that much more
amazing to want to apply what it is that you're sharing. So thank you. Absolutely. Thanks for having me on. Absolutely.