The Way We Roll
A seriously funny take on life from the disability driven duo... Simon Minty and Phil Friend.
The Way We Roll
Trauma Porn, Pity Porn, Tragedy or Triumph or Factual - news reporting on disability, early diagnosis and NHS lack of support.
Our first podcast of 2026 has our usual mix of debate, provocation, humour, and, we like to think, important insight.
We discuss how disability is reported in the media, and whether we, as disabled readers, have our own bias in seeing it one way.
Do medical prognoses collide with our lived experience? If there is no disability voice is there balance?
For a second topic, we highlight how one minute you can get a lot of support as a disabled person, and then suddenly it drops off. When we have little choice of service providers, we often have to put up with poor service. Why are these outsourced service providers getting it so wrong?
Our topics were prompted by the BBC report about singer Jessy Nelson having twin baby daughters who both have SMA. Then there’s the Guardian article written by wheelchair user Paul Sagar, about his trials in getting a wheelchair after an accident.
To finish up, we do our own Spotify Wrapped with our show numbers and a look ahead to 2026’s guests.
Links
Little Mix Jessy Nelson’s children
Other children talk of their diagnosis
I’m Not Your Inspiration - Stella Young TedTalk
How to report on disability responsibly in journalism
This is the Way We Roll presented by Simon Minty and Phil Friend. You can email us at mintyandfriend@ gmail.com or just search for Minty and Friend on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.
Simon:Hello and welcome to The Way We Roll with me, Simon Minty.
Phil:And me, Phil Friend.
Simon:Uh January 2026, a new year. Welcome friends. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Phil:Well, for people listening, of course, they probably already they're all already on their holiday in Acapulco, aren't they? Lying on a beach with pina coladas.
Simon:What's that? A winter break or something?
Phil:Well, you know, as soon as Christmas is over, the ads are full of holidays. Everybody's off, you know. So if you're on a beach somewhere, happy new year.
Simon:I have been buying my Easter eggs. I want to be prepared.
Phil:Excellent. Yes, I see they're in the shops. My wife pointed that out to me the other day. Oh, goodness me.
Simon:At the end of the show, we might do a little uh first of all, we're gonna tell you who our guests are gonna be so far this year. We will also do a little summary because we get all the stats a bit like Spotify Wrapped. We got that on our pod. So we'll give you a few numbers of how far this is reaching. But we have a couple of key stories for you uh this month, and we will start with one which has been widely reported. This is um Jesse Nelson. She is a mum. Uh she was formerly of Little Mix. I know you were a big fan, weren't you?
Phil:Massive. A massive. I had to look them up to see who they were, but yes. Actually, my daughter, my daughter was of a Little Mix fan.
Simon:Yeah, that would make sense. Um anyway, she's got twin baby daughters, they've been diagnosed with a rare condition, um, which is SMA, spinal muscular atrophy. I think there's various levels, isn't there? It's a kind of I believe so. To use the quotes, a most severe muscle, uh muscular disease, and it affects every muscle. We know a bundle of people with this. I was thinking about it. We know Baroness Jane Campbell, Ross Hovey, Maxwell McKnight, Martin Sibley, Serene McApaudi. Do you know anyone else on that?
Phil:Or is that No, I think I think that's the list for me too. But they're all what but we we joke about when I I'm with one or two of them. I always joke that, you know, unlike the polios, which is what I am, they all seem to be brilliant, don't they? Cleverly. These little twins, yeah, these little twins are going to be obviously geniuses when they get to whatever age they get. Yeah, but we do know several, we do know several people with this condition, yes.
Simon:If you've only just started listening to this podcast, that is the only I think it's one of those things that only us can say that there is now a hierarchy of intelligence depending on your condition.
Phil:Yeah, uh SMA is look down on polios, you know, that kind of thing.
Simon:Um as a result, of course, of this article. The point that Jesse was saying is it was this diagnosis and the time it took, and it took a while, and then when she got it, it was like a really big shock. And we know this. This is this is what can happen. And obviously, other parents uh started uh commenting and having articles written, and they were sort of saying, Look, we knew something was different, and then when we pushed to get analysis or diagnosis, we were like, Oh, you're worrying too much, or you're being whatever it might be. With uh, I don't really want to necessarily go into every detail about SMA, one because we don't know it, but it was more about the importance of an early diagnosis, and I know it's a I I get myself muddled by this. Lots of people we know, I've got something I need to know what it is, and I get why people might say that. I think for me personally, you know, I'm in mid-50s now, so they didn't screen for my dwarfism, and I think it took months. My mum spotted mums tend to spot something and say, Well, my baby is a little bit different. Um, what's your thoughts on this kind of early diagnosis? And should we have more screening? Sorry, my last point, I did read in the article that once you've had a baby, they do a blood test and they check for nine significant conditions, but SMA is not one of them. Um, so kind of where are you at? This is medical model, but it's really important.
Phil:Well, I think I think where I'm at is first of all, obviously early diagnosis is fundamental, isn't it? And and I I agree with you when you say that our knowledge on this subject is anecdotal, isn't it? But mums know when something is not right, and they're comparing theirs to other mums. You know, that what I remember when my kids were born, the people the other people in the hospital that soon kind of got to know a bit were the other mums, and when a baby was born with any issues and it was picked up, that kind of got transmitted. You know, people but mums kind of hang out with other mums when their babies are little, comparing and contrasting and showing them off and all that stuff. And if yours isn't moving quite like the one over there is, then clearly so what what should happen then is immediate recognition that we ought to take mums very seriously or and dads, of course, not just mums, um and then do something about it. The the pre-screening bit's the bit I have a problem with. Because the evidence is, of course, that if we pre-screen for some conditions, that leads to uh usually um a termination of the pregnancy, and it is grounds for that. So uh that's one of the grounds for terminating a pregnancy. So there's the tension around that whole debate around pro-life and all that kind of stuff that I think comes into this a bit. But um I wouldn't disagree any in any way with the idea that we need to do it have much better diagnosis and those kinds of services available.
Simon:Uh and the pre-screening, I know for people with dwarfism, it wouldn't happen routinely. Maybe if there's a history in the family, it might happen. Um but we're only a step or two away. I mean, that that's the bit, and it is Well, it does for Downs, of course, doesn't it?
Phil:Down syndrome. And we know that the numbers of people with Down syndromes who are born now is hugely less than it used to be because when offered that to for understandable reasons, some families say no, we couldn't cope with that. So, you know, that the the baby is it the termination takes place.
Simon:And maybe linking into the next point of this is um if you do have a baby that is has some formal diagnosis, it's what happens next. And um we know I I I still have anecdotal evidence of mums in the last five years finding out their child has dwarfism and then being told, well, you know, sort of I won't even go into it, but it's terri terrible cliches or inappropriate stories, and you're thinking, This is not great. Is that what's your referral point on? What has happened as a result of the two children that Jesse's had, there's been at least two I've seen people with SMA doing little video clips saying, hey, this is me, this is my life, this is what I get up to. I mean, Jesse's doing that. I know my kids will fight it, I know my kids will overcome it, and you're like, Well, we're not gonna do quite, they won't get rid of SMA, but the videos of the youngsters or the young adults saying, This is my life, can be really, really powerful, really helpful.
Phil:I think what strikes me about the story, and I only saw it on the I think it was the BBC Newsfeed, wasn't it? I uh we saw it.
Simon:Hang on, did you not get it through the fan club, Little Miss Fan Club?
Phil:No, okay, and I I looked at it, and what struck me first was the way it was reported. The journalists' language, tragedy, disaster, these kinds of words. Now, this woman I just need to challenge you there.
Simon:Go on, tell me where that is, because I didn't see that.
Phil:Ah, well, I I have got it in front of me, Simon, so I can't support.
Simon:But what I'm saying is, I don't think it's there.
Phil:I look the language leans heavily on loss and fear. Never walk, life limiting, understandable for the parents. I make these are my notes, by the way. The language leans heavily on the loss and fear. Never walk, life limiting, understandable for parents, less helpful for shaping public attitudes about disabled lives. That was the point I was making that the way it's reported matters. And Jesse is sitting there, totally shocked, got this diagnosis, knows nothing about this condition, and is now looking for ways of finding stuff out. Like we all would. What is this? What does it mean? We now have all sorts of good old chat GPT. I bet she was straight on it. What is SMA kind of stuff? What I was seeing from the article was this tragedy stuff, which is so often repeated, and it doesn't help. Well journalists, I feel journalists should stick to facts, talk about it factually. This is what these children have got. This is the sort of thing, the type it is, this is what it might mean, might mean, rather than you know, that kind of well-worn path that so many journalists go for.
Simon:And I can't defend I haven't got the article in front of me, but and I I have, and I I only say it because you and I are very attuned to this stuff. And the the headline is Jesse Nelson told her twin babies may, in quotes, never walk. Close. Now there you go. Well, it depends which way you want to go. The first one could say that is facts, Phil. That is factual.
Phil:Well, it isn't because they don't know that, do they? The child may well walk. Why are they saying it won't? Some SMAs walk.
Simon:It says may never walk. Ah, okay, may.
Phil:Now what is Jessie picking up? She's picking up, ah, that's what she's picking up.
Simon:I don't think you could bring Jessie into it. Jesse is a she's sort of said, I didn't want this, I don't want to be a nurse. And all the mums with kids with SMA are like, you won't be. Or they're like, if you're a mum, you're a nurse, you're a cook, you're a doctor, you're a clean, you're all these baddy things. So it all gets a bit all I'm trying to do is saying, This is I I I don't think it is but I still there is something in it that made me jump. But if I'm being cold and an analytical, it is facts. There's I don't think they've thrown a whole load of emotion into it.
Phil:Well, I think I I I think we'll have to agree, like they say on that podcast, agree disagreeably. I came away thinking this is here we go again. That's what I kind of read. And I think what's lovely, and I didn't know this story that you've just told, about the response from other people with SMA and parents with children with SMA, I think that's brilliant, and that's where social media and the way we can now communicate with each other is so good. But where were they in the interview? Where's the journalist finding people like that and saying, what's your take on this? You've got a disabled chart.
Simon:This is where we do agree because it the article says muscle wasting, won't be able to walk, this is going to be life limited, we don't get treatment, it could be all sorts of problems, and it is medical, medical, medical, worst case, worst case, worst case, all the way through. But I I I still would defend a little bit of the journalist. I mean, the problem I've also got is it's a culture correspondent, it's not uh not helping someone who knows this stuff, it's it's like showbiz, and you're like, well, okay, so she's not gone out to find other people SMA.
Phil:Well, isn't that in itself interesting, Simon? Who they sent out to cover the story. They didn't send out Fergal Kit, whatever no, no, what's his name? Fergus Walsh, is it the BBC's medical correspondent? They didn't send him out, did they? It was the culture. I mean, I find that interesting. It's entertainment, is it? Is that what this is about?
Simon:Yeah, but hang on, she's a singer. She's part of a little bit.
Phil:She was a singer, yes. Yeah. Oh, I think. And she still, I think she still writes music, don't you? To be fair. Yeah.
Simon:But my point is that's where it came from. So I'll do the story, you know Jesse. That's how that came about. Then you get all the follow-ups, which is the I mean, I think the next one on the BBC is from the Earth Journalists based in Wales. Um, and hen's gonna has gone out to speak to other families and and kids and stuff like that. Uh I don't get me wrong, I read it and I felt pretty bleak, because it is bleak. And I was trying to work out how loaded is this and how much is it? I mean, you know, if they don't have it, they will die. It it's full on like that. So I get it. But it didn't have this as tragic, what a waste of a life. It was, it was.
Phil:I don't know. You see, that's where well, we're covering the same ground. Never walk, life limiting. I think that's pretty negative. But what do you want them to say about SMA? I want them to tell me what it is, and I want them to tell me what the family think about this diagnosis, and I want to talk to others who've had it and give a balanced view. That's why. But I'm aware that when I'm saying this to you now, I'm not the culture reporter, I'm a journalist writing a story about somebody famous who's had this thing happen to them, and how do they navigate it? But that's not an entertainment angle, if you know what I mean. Don't misunderstand me. The journalist didn't make it some kind of entertainment story, but it was covered from no.
Simon:Not enough, not enough entertainment for me, that's for sure.
Phil:The other thing that struck me.
Simon:Well, just before you go on, I'm on a roll here.
Phil:I'm on the take.
Simon:And I said, What would you say about SMA? And you immediately went, Well, I see what you have it's all about Jesse, what she thinks. There is no other balance of other people who've got it. That I totally agree. But if you want, if you we look up SMA, it would say life limiting, unlikely to walk.
Phil:Um, but okay, so let's really push into that. The people who write that stuff are generally medical practitioners. The stuff we look up is coming from somewhere, and that's a body of medical opinion. And we all know what doctors say about disease and stuff. We're all gonna die. Downs people will never make it, you'll never work, you'll never walk, you'll never anything. Because they have to tell the worst case scenario because there is one. People with SMA do die, they do get very ill, they do not walk, some of them, they do da-da-da-da-da. But somehow we default to the worst story, not the the parents saying, I have a child with SMA, and this is what they're doing.
Simon:We don't default to that story, and I'm looking for them where they are actually walking as well.
Phil:Because they're not, they're all bloody wheelchairs. Jane Campbell walked, so did so did Alice Maynard. Alice Maynard, we never mentioned Alice. Alice and her sister, Susan, they both had SMA. Yes, they both ended up in powered wheelchairs. Jane uh Sue sadly died. James' very much around, fabulous career she's had. You know, these it's not anyway, walking, schmalking, who cares, you know.
Simon:Let's rather than us focus on SMA, uh, what I'm trying to say is you're doing what was the old classic social model where you deny any impact of a condition, and that's a problem. You're pretending that it's just got to speak to the families and say you have a great life, and you've got to go, no, comes with this is pain or discomfort. I'm talking about dwarfism now. Or so you've got to kind of go, these are some of it. I totally agree how that is reported is critical, but to kind of go, we'll skip over that bit isn't really I'm not suggesting that you do.
Phil:What I'm suggesting is balanced reporting, Mr. Minty. Let's hear both sides of this. Yes, SMA can mean this, this, this, and this. It can also mean this, this, this, and this. I think the far worrying, the much more worrying story that hasn't even been talked about in this article is what happens to these kids when everybody goes away and gets on with their stories and their lives and forgets all about them. And now what they're trying to do is find a school or find the right wheelchair or whatever it is. The fun really starts now because these kids and those family, that family, are gonna have to use all their resources just to get the sorts of things their kids need, and that's a story that never gets talked about, in my view. Not enough, anyway.
Simon:Uh yeah, yeah, I agree. Uh that wasn't the point. I mean, where the the the thing we're kind of agreeing is this is an article which is all about Jesse and her children, yeah. And it's medical and it's gonna be a cup life, and bloody hell, I didn't expect all of this. And there's a bit of drugs, these are the miracle drugs. It took the next day before all the other articles that came out that people said, I've got this, or my children have this, and this is what the real life is. And that wasn't in the original story. I tend to agree with you, it's a shame there wasn't both. I wonder whether that journalist will go, hang on, I was doing an article about Jesse, and that's what I was told to do. But I'm not trying to defend it. I'm I'm glad that the balance has been two different articles rather than in this the singular article, and that it could be an issue.
Phil:Well, I think and you referred uh to the good old social model. And uh I think what it shows is how despite you and I and our best efforts over thirty years to try and change the way people see disability, it's still nicely institutionalized in organisations that cover stories like the papers and the media, general media, that the people writing this stuff still don't get it. That the fact is SMA is a is a very nasty condition, it has all sorts of implications for those people.
Simon:Headline, Phil says SMA nasty.
Phil:However, there are many people with it who lead very, very, very fulfilling lives and have a fabulous time living them. And that is the story that needs to also be told. And I think I I get where we're going.
Simon:The story is, as you say, it's it's one one page in a uh and I would I I read other in other papers, uh as in online, and read it, and I'm like, oh my god, this is horrific reporting. All those words you said I do see. Uh I thought the BBC was not horrendous here, but um we will put the links in the show notes and we would love to hear what you think, people, because you know, are we off beam? Have we missed something here? Um, and particularly if you've got SMA, please uh let us know what you thought.
Phil:I think we should have a survey. A survey. We need a poll. A listener's poll. That's what we want. Is Phil right or is Simon Wright? That's what we want. One of those. Divide and rule.
Simon:Ten people with SMA that we know, or no, no, no, the great British public. Oh, right, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Phil:Oh, yeah. The the avid listeners. Anyway.
Simon:Matt is my story. You have a story.
Phil:Well, Simon, it's interesting because when you sent that through to me and I read it, and I thought about it in relation to our conversation this morning, I remembered an article I'd read just before Christmas, I think, December, about a chap, and I'll try and get some basic details about what this article was about. The headline was I wish I could say I kept my cool, my maddening experience with the NHS wheelchair service. So this is about a guy um who um also Paul Sagar, yeah. And we'll obviously put the links to the story in in the uh show notes. But anyway, uh Paul was a mountaineer. He he was a climber and he that was his hobby and he loved doing it. And one day he lost his balance and fell and broke his well, his back neck, very close, you know. Anyway, he's severely paralysed from the shoulder blades down. And he wakes up in hospital um paralyzed and obviously is is you know in all sorts of states. And a few days after this, he gets a call from a firm saying that they want to do an assessment for him for a wheelchair, and he points out that he's actually in hospital and he can't do anything, and at first he knew of it and so on. So he he said, Could they ring him back another time? This gets relevant for a few months later when he's he goes to find out more about getting a wheelchair, he's now ready to kind of be rehabbed home, yeah, goes for a wheelchair, and finds that the firm who was in his area managing the wheelchair service um had taken him off their waiting list because they said they tried to get hold of him, but he had turned them down. This is the start of a struggle that now goes on for a very long time.
Simon:Yeah.
Phil:The highlights of the story are that when he eventually gets a wheelchair, it is so unsuitable for him that he it's making his life at he's putting his life at risk. He can't breathe, he gets potentially sores and so on. And his physiotherapist, who he's now paying for privately, takes one look at it and confiscates the wheelchair, won't let him sit in it, and he has to be better he has to stay in bed for a few weeks until this gets sorted out. The essence of this is that the contract is let to this one company, there is no way around that. If they don't do the job, then you don't get anybody. So he has to do what many of us do. I'm one of them. He had to buy his wheelchair privately, and it cost a lot of money, but it now meets his needs. He eventually got a wheelchair provided by the wheelchair service, which he uses as some kind of backup. Now there's all sorts of issues to this story, but one that links back to Jesse's situation and I kind of touched on is what happens to people once the cameras are off. What happens when they go home? What happens to people who um you know require a lot of support and so on and so forth and have no idea. Now, like Jesse, Paul says in his article, he hadn't a clue about wheelchairs. He never knew about wheelchairs, you know, never used one, never wanted one, whatever, whatever. He's supposed to be an expert on what he needs, and clearly, if he isn't, he relies on others to be experts on what he needs. And clearly, in his particular case, they were completely incompetent, they had no idea what kind of chair he needed. He can't go anywhere else, so he was stuck. The government, he makes the point very powerfully. If it's about cleaning a hospital, that's easy. You sack the people that aren't cleaning it properly and bring in another firm. You can't do that with wheelchair services because there aren't any other firms. There's one probably in the whole area. They're making huge profits, massive profits, and providing what seems, at least in his particular case, to be a very, very second-rate service. So the two stories have a new mum with potentially very severely disabled children who are going to need lifelong services to make their lives fulfilled and so on and so forth. And Paul, whose life was his active life as a as an athlete and climber and stuff, came to an end, wants to go back to work, wants to do the usual things that people do, can't because he's got the wrong wheelchair and he has to fund it himself. This shows the best and worst of our system. On the one hand, we get amazing treatment when we're very, very ill acutely, but in the longer term, it's all a bit again.
Simon:I'm gonna take you back on my I think you're trying to make a comparison, but Jessie's not, she got terrible treatment, she didn't know what was going on, so I don't think there's a comparison. Your point. Well, I was meaning as the medical, yeah, the medical side of it was it was a cock-up, it was a blaming awful, but but your point about standalone Paul Sagar, Sagar, we don't need to. Um I read it and I was so frustrated. You read it and you're like, yeah, without swearing, you're like, oh, we know this as disabled people, where you're in this crappy system that doesn't work, and but you've got no alternative. Um I thought it's quite cute the line about, you know, if it's cleaners and then doing the job, it's just like everything I know about the NHS is this will be a 15-year contract, that there is no way the NHS can boot anybody out, and it's completely rubbish terms for the NHS because they're not good at this stuff, they don't know to how to outsource and get competitive. But the point still stands. He's saying you can go to another cleaner, cleaning company, with the as you just said, there's no other one locally for him. And there was this other bit, we've seen this before, their website, AJE Mobility, is the name of the company, Forest, isn't it? Um, and they're like, um, we're you know delivering services to a population base of over 8.1 million people. And I'm like, hold up. Where is that's not is that all just AI people, or is that just the people in the area? Is that real nonsense stuff? And you're right, was it four million one year, three million the next year? This was their profits.
Phil:Uh it all seems Can I just read a little clip of something that really you talk about frustration and so on. This is the wheelchair service in Waltham Forest. He meets the clinical lead. That tells me this person's senior. Yeah? He meets the clinical lead for this assembly. When I got there, I met the clinical lead. He was relatively new to the job, but we managed. Moving into the side room where the new wheelchair would be set up, he asked me to get out of the one I was in and position myself on a nearby plinth. I explained that I couldn't do that because I'm a quadriplegic and require hoisting in situations like this. He looked somewhat concerned. Hoisting? I gested with my useless hand at the nearby wall where an array of hoistlings were attached and etc. etc. etc. He had to go off and get somebody else to come in to show him how to use the hoists. Yeah. This this is just a joke.
Simon:It's the same when um they didn't have the serial number of the wheelchair and they called him up and said, Can you climb underneath the wheelchair and have a look and find the number and let us know? And he went, You do know what I freaking got here. It's I wonder whether these people. I mean, there was a bit of can you do this? It would be I just want to check, is this possible or is there some way rather than this, just do it for me. They're yeah, it it's terrifying, but they clearly haven't got training or experience, and they're just but they're providing one of the most critical services.
Phil:And what Paul points out throughout the article is the risks he's put in by trying to use equipment that clearly is not right for him.
Simon:And I uh I think you said it at the top, he's recovering, and he gets a 30-second phone call where he says, I can't talk to you right now. Yeah, then there was this double whammy, he can't get back into the flat that he used to live in because it's got steps, and so won't be using that again. He said, I never went back to my house, to where I lived. He never went back, and then the one letter that follows that up to say we've taken you off our list, he doesn't get that. It's remarkable that there isn't a better system than that. I mean, that was shocking. The idea that when you're in a right old mess, you can't you can't think clearly, you're just thinking day by day. Um, yeah, I he obviously got funding through I think he got some sort of insurance or compensation from the climbers association.
Phil:I think he was insured actually, yes. I think he was insured.
Simon:I think there's a climbers association where he got some money and that changed it. But um yeah, really, really tricky, really frustrating.
Phil:I noticed that the government, I've in passing, the government are gonna carry out a review into um wheelchair use on highways and byways and so on. There's a mess legislatively. If you clip a bike thing, some the police somewhere confiscated somebody's wheelchair and bike attachment because it it wasn't legal on the road or something. But anyway, I'd be careful here because I don't know the full story. But um, but there's this kind of wheelchair thing going on, powered wheelchair thing going on. And one of the things that I've long campaigned for, maybe not as overtly as I should be, is the simple cost of them. The wheelchair I'm sitting in is up to uh about 12 grand. Yeah, the sorts of wheelchairs that Paul's talking about are going to be north of that. You're looking at more like 15 or 16 grand. Now, I know they don't make millions of them, so it is about you know quant the quantity issue, you can't mass produce these things. But how do you justify 16,000 quid? You can buy a car for less.
Simon:It's it's I've got a friend, a friend who's just bought uh a power chair that would have been adapted for her, but it doesn't it's painful, really painful for her. So she can't use it, but because it's adapted, they're like we can't take it back. What do you do then? I mean, and this is as you say, more than 10,000. It's um one little line I wanted to just bearing in mind our discussion at the top of the show about reporting. This is Paul's words, by the way, and that is the difference. He says the rock climbing accident that left me paralyzed from the collar bones down happened in June 23. It took a lot away from me. Continence, both kinds, sexual function, the ability to wash, dress, and feed myself, and basically anything that requires the proper use of hands, and using voice dictation. And yes, most obviously it took my ability, uh it took away my ability to walk. Now, presumably you got gonna take issue with him for writing that because he should be focused on the wrong thing.
Phil:You're being you're being cute, aren't you? You're trying to be cute. Okay, well, you're going with this. Paul Sagar is allowed to say what he wants to say about your situation. Right. He's not a professional journalist, he's speaking as someone with lived experience. So I am gonna allow him to say what he wants to say. I might disagree with him and say, oi, oi, but no, he's not in the same position as a journalist. I'm sorry, that will not wash, Mr. Minty.
Simon:I think also. I mean, I read that and I'm like, whoa, and he's saying, and that to me is like someone's going, Jesus, this is a massive change. But already there's just that one bit where he says, you know, I've lost the use, proper use of my hands in brackets. I'm using this, I'm writing this using void dictation. So that immediately said to me, he's finding his path. This is a crappier, bumpier, more difficult path.
unknown:Yeah.
Simon:But he's trying to find it. And the fact that he's in the fact that he's written the article shows that he wants to talk about this.
Phil:Yeah, I think I just want to not disagree with you here because I think that um what he what he and Jesse have in common or had in common is the shock and the lack of knowledge bit. You know, this happened, what the hell do we do now? Kind of thing. And Paul in his article is demonstrating that he's beginning to acquire a lot of knowledge about wheelchairs and how they work and what's best for him. He's also finding ways around being able not able to use his hands in the way he used to. I rather like the fact that he leaves not being able to walk by the way, at the right at the end of it. It's these other things. In some ways, walking's not the big issue here. The big issue is not being able to use my hands, actually. So, but I think we have to give the personal experience bit, you know, if he wants to call himself whatever we've had this before. I mean, some people refer to themselves in ways that you and I might not agree with, but it's they're they're cool.
Simon:Uh I um tried to find him on social media. I have tried to uh link up with him on Instagram. I don't think it's the same chap. Um, but Paul, by all means, reach out to us because it'd be lovely to hear from you. Um I don't I didn't know if you were aware you have something in common with Jesse Nelson from Little Mix. You know, that we've proved that we've proved there's a link. Uh but both of them, the thing it's back to is can you meet up with other people that have gone through it that will give you some experience and knowledge that just saves a lot of time? You might ignore it, you might find your other path, but just to save that time. And he has found a really great organization. I think it's called Beyond Mobility, and he's saying they're fabulous, they're doing everything.
Phil:Well, they're the wheelchair specialists, but I think what he doesn't he doesn't mention maybe this to pick up on your point, he doesn't actually mention other spinal cord injured people that he's come across or organisations like uh SIA Spinal Injuries Association or Backup Trust, you know. Uh I'm sure he will be aware of them, but um we at least we're mentioning them, you know. If you are newly disabled, one of the best bits of advice we can ever offer is as soon as you feel ready, look out for people who are in your same position and and reach out to them and see what their experiences are, because they will give you good ideas.
Simon:It's a toughie that, because it's it's a reflection and a recognition of where you're at, and you go out and meet other people who are in that position. We know that's a big thing to do. So, as you say, when you're ready. Uh yeah.
Phil:So, Mr. Minty, we don't have a listener's corner this uh pod, do we? Because everybody's been gorging themselves with Christmas puddings and stuff, so they haven't had time to write. I can't understand why, but anyway.
Simon:We have been beavering. Oh, sorry.
Phil:No, no, no, you you carry on.
Simon:But we have been beavering away.
Phil:Uh and we Well, actually, you you have been beavering away. Let's be honest about this, Mr. Minty.
Simon:Well, you did one of them. Uh the point is um we have some in we're gonna still do our one-to-ones, which is me and Phil uh discussing stroke arguing, as you know and love. Um, but we're also gonna have different guests throughout the year. Uh next month, Tom Yendl from Foot and Mouth Painting Uh Association and Dr. George Petijon, I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right, which has set up an organization around addiction in the workplace. Um we have got Dr., it might be Professor Nancy Doyle. Sorry, Nancy. Uh she's gonna be talking about neurodiversity with us in May. Uh, we're gonna be talking about the purple discount, so that's gonna be happening in June and in October. Can you believe we're that far ahead? Um, we are gonna have two of our favorite people, Jeff Spinks and Jamie uh and Lion, who are gonna talk about tech and accessibility and Apple and all that stuff. And you have a guest you sorted.
Phil:I have, and I thought you'd forgotten, but you haven't. You did that very cleverly. I'm very impressed. Yes, I'm um I've been in touch with a chap that some of you may have heard of before called Mark Mardell. He was a BBC journalist, amongst other journalism roles that he had. Um, but he's coming on to talk about his uh interesting experiences with Turkish Airlines, amongst other things, but also his experiences as someone who's got Parkinson's, and uh he sits alongside people like um Jeremy Paxman and uh that clan. And um, so yeah, looking forward to meeting him, and that's in February.
Simon:Um the last bit, oh we've got a couple of other guests lined up as well, which we will keep you posted at. But um, I mentioned at the top of the show we get this sort of Buzz Sprout is our podcast host, and they do send us a kind of statistics. Now, we've we always say this, we've got a pretty solid podcast. Uh, we're not in the millions of downloads, but we have our you know good numbers and stuff. I was more struck by the reach that we have. Um yes. And I can't work out if this is the 10 years we've been doing it or whether that's just 10 years.
Phil:That's that is amazing, isn't it? Yes, it's our 10th anniversary year this year. And uh very, very few podcasts, it seems to me, last that long.
Simon:And some have complained that ours has lasted that long. Uh I totally they say if you want to get good numbers on your podcast, just keep doing it. I can't believe I there must be so many that just started, they did two or three, and then they just don't keep it going. Yeah, um, but I I looking at the stats, 117 countries in the world we've uh have been downloaded in, Phil.
Phil:Can you name them all, son? Can you name them all?
Simon:Not off the head. Um, this bit is blew my mind. 1,832 cities in the world.
Phil:Yes, that's intriguing, isn't it?
Simon:Um, well, uh right up there was Hong Kong, and I'm thinking, and I remember I did some work for HSBC for colleagues with a disability working at HSBC in Hong Kong. And I'm wondering, well, did that sort of reach out? But um it it was fabulous, excuse me. It was fabulous reading these statistics and seeing where we've reached and what we've done.
Phil:Aren't we um I think one of the other stats that grabbed my attention was that we're in the top 50%, which doesn't, you know, it's we're not in the bottom 50%, we're in the top 50% of listeners of podcasts that Buzz Sprout presumably are hosting.
Simon:I decided that right yeah, yeah, I don't mention that because it's like, well, well done.
Phil:But they don't say we could be top we could be in the top ten. No, we don't know it, you see. We don't know. I'm an optimist, I think we're in that top ten.
Simon:Yep, yeah. Uh I I I think if we're in the top ten, it would say top ten. Do you think so? Well, then in which case they could just say you're in the top 100%. You all are.
Phil:Yeah, but that doesn't fill me with pride. I want to be filled with pride.
Simon:I uh, as I said, we're slow and steady and we keep existing.
Phil:And uh we do know that there's some brilliant listeners, and we uh appreciate the fact that you do listen regularly, but um yeah, I think I think we're a bit I think we're a bit like um the old um does he take sugars and in touch and um oh what was the Link, the the old ITV program Link. Yeah, they all they all lasted about half an hour and they all covered topics that were relevant to disabled people that you wouldn't find covered anywhere else. And when they went, they were missed. I think In Touch is still on, isn't it? Uh with disabled.
Simon:There is one distinction we have one distinction. Which is um when they did all the research into who watched these shows, it was non-disabled people. Well, now that's interesting. I believe our listenership probably predominantly, and don't get me wrong, we welcome non-and-disabled people, but I suspect our listenership is more likely to be disabled people.
Phil:I can think of several who aren't. But you're right, I'm sure that's right, but I think there's a I think we cover a broad church, Mr. Minty.
Simon:But it's also serving the people we uh as in the link and the in touch and the or not in touch, the we're still going. Some of the others were not um the wrong people were listening, as it were.
Phil:Yeah. But anyway, I I think uh ten years we're still here, we're still doing it. We still have people listening, and we're in a hub uh six million cities across the world and two thousand four hundred and eighty three countries. It's quite remarkable, really.
Simon:You've made me I didn't I wasn't gonna say it this uh month, but you've prompted me. Uh there is talk that we are now being listened to in Mars, on Saturn. Yeah. And I'm delighted about that.
Phil:Did men and women listen to us differently if they're from Mars and Venus, do you think?
Simon:Yes.
Phil:There's a little link in there somewhere if you dig.
Simon:I would say everybody, everybody is listening to us. Okay, we've enough of this nonsense.
Phil:We have indeed, but it's been fun. Nice, nice way to kick the new year off.
Simon:Well, by the time they listen to us, it'll be the end of January. So we hope it's been a good start for you. And uh yeah, keep listening. We've got a bump a year ahead.
Phil:Indeed. Take care, everyone. See you soon.
Announcer:This is the Way We Roll, presented by Simon Minty and Phil Friend. You can email us at mintyandfriend at gmail.com or just search for Minty and Friend on social media. We're on Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn.