Did we hate The Hating Game? You'll have to listen to find out! Plus, Ellen and Mom give you 2 for the price of 1 in this episode and also discuss Dr. Strange Beard by Penny Reid.
Did we hate The Hating Game? You'll have to listen to find out! Plus, Ellen and Mom give you 2 for the price of 1 in this episode and also discuss Dr. Strange Beard by Penny Reid.
Welcome to the book club. That sure is not your mom's Romance Book Club, but it is my mom's. I'm Ellen, and joining me as always is my mom. Hi Mom. How's it going?
Mom:It's going.
Ellen:Mom's here with me in the same room. I know I can't get rid of her. I'm. So. Today we're going to be talking about the Hating game by Sally Thorne and later we're going to talk about what's this? A second book. Yes, that's right. We're doing a bit of a Bogo deal for this episode because we're also going to discuss Dr. strange beard by this author that we've never talked about before. Penny Reid. So, but first mom, what have you been reading?
Mom:What have I been reading? Well, last time we did the book, The Countess, and so I read the rest of the Madison sister books
Ellen:as did I?
Mom:Yes. I read the heiress, which I'm not sure why it's called the Eris, but I read the Eris
Ellen:because they've their heiresses heiresses
Mom:I know, but you know, that's like got going on for her and then I read the husband hunt, but they're all very similar. Just adorable little.
Ellen:Yeah, they were fun, I would say because we talked about this last time that I'm like with the heiress, it's very overlapping with the count tests. Right, exactly. Overlapping. Um, I mean like the stories side by side until about halfway through the book. And I found myself skimming a lot because I'm like, Eh, I know because they would kind of want.
Mom:Because you're super impatient.
Ellen:Well, yeah, that too. Sorry that my dog is shaken and you can hear them. Um, but yeah, just that it overlaps. I don't know, to the point where I was like, I just read a book about this. I don't get her perspective of it. I know, but a lot of the stuff was like, go on stuff one. Anyway, I liked both of them. They're both a lot of,
Mom:I believe it was my turn to be talking to anyone. Anyway. Then I read a little bit called Dr. strange beard. And then I read the hating game and now I just started for another book club I'm reading. Um, what alice forgot.
Ellen:You've got another book club. How dare you know. Rude.
Mom:Right by Leanne. I think it's Liane Moriarty who wrote big little lies. Yeah. Anyway, that's. I'm reading that for another book club and it's not. I don't think it's, it's like however I read it, like I read her romance novels, so like she at the very, very beginning of the book, she passes out and the paramedics come and they're talking about how hot he is. I'm like, they're totally gonna. Hook up
Ellen:your ruined.
Mom:I can't ever read a book, a normal book again.
Speaker 2:So my books were basically the same. I read The Heiress and The Husband Hunt really liked it. The husband hunt, right. We both really liked that one. Yeah. That's cute. Um, and then I read Dr. Strange Beard in The Hating Game in the middle of there. I um, Beta read a manuscript for a friend of mine and you know, when that eventually gets published, I'll, I'll big up that book because I think it's really good. Um. Anyway, so today we're going to be talking about the hating game by Sally Thorn. It was her debut novel all the way back in 2016 and it caused quite the splash, not only in the room as community, but also mainstream. It was like on a lot of best selling lists and stuff. Um, so much so that right after we announced that we were doing this, they announced that they were going to make a movie of it. So it's being adapted for the big screen. And I'm just loving all this romance. I really think we should point out this is the second time this happened. I know because this we picked really nice and then like a few days later that was, um, that was announced that it was getting made into a movie too. So it's Kinda crazy. It is kinda crazy. And I think authors should be begging us.
Speaker 3:You read them, we read your book, they will make a movie and we're like two for 27 to 27
Speaker 2:anyway. So, um, we know a lot of you love this book, so no pressure on us to, um, you know, do well with this one. Um, for. It makes me wonder, just like I hated it. I hate everything.
Speaker 3:Think about it, but let's see.
Speaker 2:Okay, so for my little description, I wrote the rules to the hating game, who rule number one, don't smile, be like Joshua templeman. When Lucy Hutton entered her office after her company had undergone a merger and she was met with the grouchy unsmiling, I'll be at handsome face of her new rival, Josh, a rule number two, mirror your opponents movements. Begin a series of games trying to get the other two crack. Much like Lucy and Joshua did. When forced to share an office as assistants to the Co Ceos of the publishing house where they work. Rule number three, don't show weakness. Your opponent will pounce on it. Build a strong offensive. Much like Lucy did when a job position was announced for which her and Josh were the two main candidates, lucy was determined to take it by any means and become Joshua's bus. Rule number four, stair your opponent down with menace, with longing. You decide. For example, there's a lot of staring. For example, lucy was left reeling after josh kissed her in the elevator. Had he been playing a different game the whole time? Was there something more to his stairs and rule number five, be willing to change the game, especially when your opponent turns out to not be such a bad guy. After all, one who takes care of you when you are sick and maybe hides behind stoic facade and one for whom maybe lucy was willing to bend the rules. So mom, what did you think of the hating game? Because you've been so like coy.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah. Oh my gosh. I love this book. I knew what I kept telling you. Oh, well, I bought it a long time ago and I wanted to read. Let me.
Speaker 2:I know the banter, right? Oh my gosh. I mean
Speaker 3:all of it. Just, and the put downs and then to find out that they just, Oh gosh, I was dying at the end of this book when he was like, well, I don't know. This is probably gonna be up in your question.
Speaker 2:Um, when he's just
Speaker 3:do you all the time. I was like, it was killing me. Yeah,
Speaker 2:this book is fantastic. And um, you know, I really enjoyed rereading it because you can pick up on a lot of, you know, like he's got his whole code, his like Pencil code for, you know. And I knew I remembered what that was and stuff. And um, and just kind of when she doesn't really know yet that he's got feelings for her, but like it's so obvious come on the boat of roses.
Speaker 3:I knew right away, literally talked about it last night, how, you know,
Speaker 2:you know, she was so sad because, you know, he's beating her down and not thought she was beautiful. And then she gets a card saying you are always beautiful. It's like
Speaker 3:obviously that's Josh, don't be such an idiot.
Speaker 2:Um, I, but back to the banter because that is my favorite part of this book. And like I think that's what makes her so likable and him like so swoony for me is that, um, he's just so like quick witted, right? Like that he's able to just come back with a zinger every time. I was like, Ugh, that's so attractive. Um, but I like I wrote down this one because it just kind of made me laugh when I read it. She's trying to figure out what the pencil marks mean and she finally like works it out to a certain degree and she does. When I finally work out the pencil marks, I slapped my forehead. I can't believe I have been so slow and he says, thanks. I've been dying to do that.
Speaker 3:That's so cool. Quick
Speaker 2:witted. Um, but yeah, so that's like what really makes the book for me. And then yeah, just that there's like[inaudible], there is a certain amount of passion right in. He actively hating someone. And so the fact that it's like this level of passionate the entire book, it just kind of like morphs into something else even though like it doesn't for him. Um, so it's just like rife with, with goodness. Yes, it was. Anyway. Um, and Oh, this is another when I was rereading it and there's just like a lot more moments throughout when you kind of catch on that he's, you know, been feeling this way a whole the whole time. And um, she's crying and uh, they're talking about their games and stuff and he's like, is that the prize that you think I'm playing for to see you cry? It's really
Speaker 3:not.
Speaker 2:Anyway. Okay. So first question, where did you think that this book was set to the lack of distinct setting bug you or in are you,
Speaker 3:you're asking this question because I had no idea where it was sent for some reason
Speaker 2:I was reading reviews and comments and you're not the only one and she's basically come out and said like, I left it ambiguous on purpose for some reason I was thinking Texas and even when they, it's probably because I was thinking about this because you said that I'm Finna go fort worth, they go to port worth, which is a place in Australia. Okay. But um, yeah, so that's probably where think, okay, so sorry that I didn't know where it was set. And I was probably just reading through it quickly and just thought fort worth a lot of people thought like when I was reading comments, a lot of people thought in New York City, but there's nothing to indicate that it's New York City. Um, I, when I read it, I knew she was from that Sally Thornton is from Australia. And so I just assumed, assumed Australia, he couldn't mentioned something I could.
Speaker 3:No, I didn't. No, no, it didn't
Speaker 2:ruined it for me at all. I mean, because I obviously had no clue what it was. But you were saying that the audio book was not in like an Australian accent. Right? Was, that was interesting because I just assumed Australia and so I assume that the audio book would be that as well. But in an American accent. Yeah. So That's interesting. Um, but yeah, I did see she tweeted and said like, I left it up to your imagination and so they can be wherever you want them to be from. And I think that's fine. You know, I think I saw a lot of people saying New York because they're like, well that's where most of the publishing houses are. It's like, well, yes and no. I mean there's like smaller boutiquey publishing houses like almost to be like a huge publishing company. So I don't know. I'm first person present is a bit of a different Pov than we usually get. How did that read for you? I know a lot of people are like anti present tense. Um, and then did you miss having the dual pov? Well, I am. Well, I always think that I missed the dual pov and then when I look back over the book it wouldn't work. It wouldn't have worked because he, that whole reveal at the end of him having been in love with her the whole time, if you knew that ahead of time it would have ruined that whole thing. Yeah. So I'm definitely the first person Pov was great. I don't mind the present tense thing. The one thing I had a problem with and[inaudible]. Okay. And I listened to a lot of this on audio book because I was road tripping out here to visit my daughter. And um, the problem with listening to an audio book is you can't always tell if they're thinking something in their head or saying something out loud, especially this where it's first person. Right. And so she would say she would think something. And I was like, oh my gosh, did she say that out loud? Because it would be a game changer kind of thing. And um, then I'd realize as ohad his body and then I would say, okay, so she must not have said it out loud, but that would always kind of throw me off so that there in lies the problem with an audio book or maybe I'm just slower, dim, dim or it goes without saying. But, um, anyway, I, I did not mind it at all. I liked it. I liked, yeah, I actually helps me kind of get into her head a little. I wrote a, I had to write a manuscript once that was in present tense. So I actually kind of have an affinity for present tense. I think it kind of adds an interesting like immediacy and like kind of throws you more right into the action, you know, of what's going on. And I think especially as a good tense for first person because somebody is not going to be like thinking in their head like, oh, I just did this, I just did that, you know, and I, and then I. Yeah. So, um, I know it's a big thing, like it's a big bugaboo for a lot of different people. But, um, I, I thought it worked for this book. I thought that and yeah, the dual pov wouldn't, would not have worked with that. Have worked. Not with the big reveal at the end. Yeah. Not unless it was being like that. We just spoiled her, so we're always boiling. Just, um, learn that. Okay. Next question. What did you think of Lucy Hutton? We are in her brain the whole time. Was that enjoyable? Did you like her as a heroine? I loved her. I thought she was fantastic. I loved the little sweet girl next door kind of feel and um, but still like had a viciousness tour of, you know, I want to get ahead in business and so she, um, but I do like the, the um, changes that she was able to make, especially that he helped bring about where she's like, no, I, I'm tired of giving you lots of chances can get this turned into me today. Well, and I think that that's a thing that, you know, gets talked about a lot with like women in the workforce and things like that that I think it comes a little more naturally to men to just be aggressive and out for themselves. But I think us as women, we like to, we like to be loved and um, you know, try and help others and things like that. But we, but, and so I think it's a good thing for us to recognize like I need to, I can help other people. But like not at the expense of myself and you know, well and like once or twice I understand, but if she, I mean this guy was taking advantage of her every single week. I want to just smack her. I know was when she was awful to her. So I liked, I liked that moment at the end when she got to have that kind of soccer to you. Well, and she wouldn't have gotten where she was if she was a complete pushover. So she must have had some kind of aggressiveness tours. Yeah. No. And I think that that is, you know, obvious especially. Well, I like that he's, that he says like you need to be more like you are with me. Like you have no problem being mean to me. Aggressive with me. Like you need to kind of let that come out with, with other people too. Especially if you want this promotion, you know. Well and also with, you know, his boss, it was leering at her all the time. He was just like, just tell him I love that moment at the end when he's like, you better stop. Especially in hindsight when you know that like he's already like basically quit and one foot out the door and stuff and so he's just like, I have no cause to be nice to you. So you better knock it off. Yeah. I liked all. I liked all of that. Um, yeah, I really liked her. I like, you know, that she hurt her like really small stature and she's always trying to kind of. I think that's where a lot of her aggressiveness comes, right, is that she kind of needs to seem tougher and tougher and taller and you know, she kind of has to make herself a little bit more physically imposing to, for the lizard kind of thing where they took out there. Um, but I just, so yeah, I thought she was fun and nice and I liked her internal dialogue and kind of seeing her progress through this. You know, we hate to love thing. I wonder where they'll set the movie. I'm betting it's New York, ambiguous, New York or ambiguous USA. Made up city. Um, what did you think of Joshua Templeman? Did he have moments that pissed you off? Was he believable, you know, was he a believable character, et cetera? Uh, I loved him. Every fracture of my heart. I also love, first of all, we like the grumpy guys. We've discussed that multiple times and he was grumpy and put like grumpy to hide. So much feeling there was so much going on. He's a very Mr Darcy. Yeah, right. Where he's like repressing all of these emotions kind of quiet and stoic and all of that is just to high comes off like a jackass. Right. But like you find out that it's all to hide all of this deep. Well, plus he's had some, uh, battle scars. I mean he's got some life experiences that were rough. I mean, I really like, um, you know, she, she has a pretty good arc, but I really liked his and I think, you know, because we're not with his pov, a lot of his art comes more as a surprise. Right. Um, but learning his whole thing with his dad and his brother, new wife. Yeah. Um, well as soon as he was going on, but I didn't want the wedding. I was, I knew, I was like, he's, his brother is married, his old girlfriend. That's why this is hard for him. And um, uh, yeah, the whole it was. And that's another thing that could have been, like I've read other novels where that could have been a huge deal and she did get mad about that, finding out all that at the wedding. And you're anticipating me. Okay. Sorry. Oh, you're fine. Stop talking. We can talk about now. I just said we have most of our big conflicts at the wedding. Did you like how the fight at the wedding was resolved and what about her dressing down of his dad. Okay, well now I'll go back to what I was talking about. Um, first of all when she found out at the wedding, because he was being all kinda no PDA and, and then he'd know, she'd never seen that part of him before and um, she, you know, she was just kinda going with the flow and enjoying it. And then when she found out that he was married, that she was his old girlfriend, she got really angry about it, which I could get an but that could have been like a huge deal and made the story like dragged on and I'm glad that it was taken care of quickly because as soon as he explained it to her, she was okay, you know? Yeah. I thought it was an appropriate reaction to finding out about what was going on and then I thought and it was appropriate reaction to his apology to just be like, you hurt me. Like I wish you would just told me because this would be a non issue if you had just told me like back at all of these incidents. She like lists off like you could've told me this time or this time when I asked you or this time because she kept asking him like, is there something I need to know? What's, why do you need moral support? And like why does everybody keep looking at you? And he just kept brushing it off. So I thought she was totally rational and being like, what the heck, dude, now I'm going to go into your question more. Okay. I loved when she told off his dad too. I loved it. I love. I was kinda
Speaker 3:irritated. Did his mother had never done the same thing? Okay. So she kept talking about the mother, like I could sense she was another line. So I'm like, well then why hasn't she done anything for? Because like if it were me and my husband was treating my son like that, I would have gone all crazy on him as you well know. But um, uh, I loved when she told his dad off and then I loved when she was saying I'm sorry, did I overstep because most guys don't like, it's like, no, it was awesome. And everybody in the restaurant, like somebody who like starts clapping and then I'm like awkward. And um, but the other thing I really liked is when she was talking to Danny on the phone and he comes over and just picks up the phone, you're not going to talk to her anymore
Speaker 2:bad. Like, I'm not supposed to be really into these guys who get all like Alpha male and broody and stuff about it. He said, I guess I need to apologize to Danny, but you know, you could see where he was feeling insecure. Yeah. That's like, that is another thing that I loved about him was like how he's like anti nice guy because he feels like he's always getting left for nice guys and how he doesn't want him to just be used for his body and stuff. And she's like, okay, I like that.
Speaker 3:But, but, but
Speaker 2:yeah. And I. So I thought that that kind of added another thing. And I like when she has that realization, right? Like, oh my gosh, he's shy and been like, she says to his brother like, you know, leave him alone. He shy his brothers, like
Speaker 3:what? And like how that kind of explains a lot. Well, and a lot of his, you know, the way he acts and how graffiti is all the time is because he's feels vulnerable and I mean for as tough a guy as he is and his grumpy guys. Yes. He's really got some vulnerabilities that are hard for him to deal with. So he needs a hug. Are More volunteer tribute.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I just really liked. I just really, you know, like she's great. I love her and. But yeah, like I love him on a whole different thing.
Speaker 3:Oh, there are level. I'm not that. There's anything wrong with that.
Speaker 2:Anyway. Um, so all the games that they play in juvenile or endearing, where did you land? I'm probably a little of both. Yeah. But um, they were juvenile in nature, but in endearing, in the long run, the staring game especially was like,
Speaker 3:yeah, I love
Speaker 2:that when like I bought into it kind of like you're saying, like in the beginning, I remember when I was first reading it, I was just like, come on guys. But as the story progresses and you start to realize like more what's going on, right? Um, I like, I think that what it is is it's just they had this can miscommunication at the beginning, which is when he falls in love with her and she starts like hating him and then I think he just kind of takes what he can get, right. I think it was just a way of getting her to interact with them rather than just theory playgrounds, you know, like tugging her pigtails and things like that. But still it was just a way for him to get a reaction out of her and you know, just like with kids, if they want something in it, even if it's a negative something they want. Yeah, just the attention. Um, and I liked how she was like, he's like, well, what were you playing for? You know, he's like, I was playing to get you to fall in love with me. And she's like, oh, I was playing to like get you to smile or laugh or something he's like, well, for makes you feel better. I recall in my car and just crack. Yeah. So I think yeah, it evolved, right? The games kind of. And then I, I liked the kind of theme throughout a game, like the or something game and now that you know, I like the sound of the or something. Okay. What was your swoony like? Little moments. There's a lot of them because I was like highlighting. See you were reading it with that in mind. So it's harder. I'm just moments. Gosh, there's so many. First of all, him taking care of her when she's sick, that's just. And then when she's, because you're just picturing your brain where he's sitting back and she's like leaning back against him and between the splitting between us,
Speaker 3:his legs and he's just totally nervous. I'm just saying what one would not want that guy holding them like that.
Speaker 2:And then he did it again later on in the book is just like, oh. And then Oh, when she was like kind of making fun of him because of his girly bedroom and he's like, why do you think that?
Speaker 3:I thought for sure you going to walk in and know exactly. It's the color of your eyes. I'm not on that one. I really liked it
Speaker 2:when she was like, snooping around his house and she finds this like Origami bird that he had like, but she had made in like, threw at him during some meeting and he obviously like picked it up and pocketed it and then like put it on his bookshelf. I'm like, you are so cute. I just love him. But yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot of like, especially on a reread, there's a lot of moments where I was just like
Speaker 3:so cute.
Speaker 2:Uh, okay. So let's talk about sex to be me. So I'd say temperature wise, this is like 85 degrees, right? We've read worse. It gets fairly steam, but it's a slow burn because it's not till the very end of the book. Well towards the end of the book I guess. And they're not talking about wanting to like banging each other the whole time. Although she really does want to bang him, which, you know, um, I did like how he kept like trying to like hold her off and um, you know, because he's like, if you're a. That was the thing that was pissing me off about her is that she kept saying it's just going to be one right
Speaker 3:for me when I'm like, why, what, what, what, what is? She still wasn't sure what she wanted to bang him and she wasn't sure what's going on. But um, I did live when he kissed her in the elevator of course. And um, you know, especially once you look back on that. And then when he tells her, okay, yeah, go out with Danny and kiss him and he can do better than me. Then you have to come up
Speaker 2:the elevator thing. Right? Because I caught it more on this, on the reread that um, he thought she was talking about going on a date day. Yeah. Well going on a date with him because he was going to go with. She kept talking about like, yeah, I'm going with some guy from work and I'm not sure if he feels the same. Like she kept saying things that like, I think he was interpreting to me like, oh, this is happening. Well, like he even thought. I mean, he even told her later, he said,
Speaker 3:I thought I was going to be your day.
Speaker 2:So cute. Um, yeah. So, so yeah. So I liked that the, the sexual attention got to build a little bit because he just kept like holding her off, like, listen, if we're going to do this,
Speaker 3:if I only get one time, it's going to be for days. Oh, that's if we're talking about the sex when she's talking about how about her dream. And then she tells him like her dream is like, um, I'm going to work you so hard how that was just like playing in her brain and he's, well then she tells him about it later and then he uses that a lot. She's like, oh,
Speaker 2:pile of Goo. Um, yeah. So, and I also love when they are talking about their respective kinks that they developed. Like she's into Dr Josh.
Speaker 3:He's into like sexy Librarian Lucy.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's so cute. Um, so we talked about the conflict and then we find out that Josh has been in love with Lucy practically since meeting her. Right? Like he says, it's, she comes in and smiles at him and he's like, I'm done for. Um, so when would you guess Lucy fell in love with him? With me. It would've been
Speaker 3:right away whether he smiled or not right after,
Speaker 2:when did lucy fallen level with them because she realized it and then freaked out. Yeah. But she probably. Do you think like it's in the course of what we read or do you think it is prior to that? That she falls in love with him? Yeah, well, I, I would say that she probably doesn't happen until she's visiting him and she's stumbling up more feelings then she's like fessing up to. Right. Well I think for the book starts. Right, right, right. Well, just that kind of hatred is just masking other fields. Like you got the hots for him, let's be honest. Um, yeah, I think. Well because the reason I was wondering about this is like when she lets herself like admit that she likes him, she's like 100 percent. She's climbing on him like a freaking tree and
Speaker 3:that was one of my favorite lines. Are you going to come down and kiss me or do I have to climb up? She just clings onto him like a Koala, like getting things out of just holding on.
Speaker 2:But yeah. Um, so I don't know. So like I just got the feeling that she had to have been feeling like a lot of things to go from like supposedly zero, zero to 100 all of the sudden. So yeah, I was curious if you had thoughts as to when I didn't, but definitely when she started hanging out in his apartment and like her first thought is always I want to go to Josh as well. I think like it's probably the kiss, right? Like the kiss in the elevator because that's probably what gets her like to start thinking about like, oh wait, what's going on here? And I think that that kind of gets her to shift the time. It'll tend to realize that yeah, I don't hate him quite as maybe hates a strong word. Okay. So my last question. So they're making a movie. Who Do you think that would be good casting option? Catholic? Because I've been thinking about this. I have to. Here's the thing is they need to be younger than I think that other people might think later on have to be young, like early, like late twenties. Yeah, that's true. However, the thing with the Josh character, and this is I talked to you about this before, is it's got to be someone who can pull off being grumpy and[inaudible] and um, but then be super likable to end and, and having a nice body and being tall is like a huge part of the book. I guess they could work around that for the movie, but it would be helpful if the guy is tall and has a great body just for aesthetics.
Speaker 3:And
Speaker 2:so like a Chris Hemsworth. Yeah. I don't think he could pull off being the grumpy guy at the beginning. I mean he could be the sweet guy who everybody loves at the end, but I don't think he could. I, I wouldn't take him seriously as a grumpy guy because he's been to non grumpy. I'm like, uh, Ryan Reynolds type. I don't think he had plopping grumpy either because he's just too fun and silly. I was thinking I, I don't personally like these actors very much, but like a Henry cavill that's who I was thinking or an Armie Hammer, either one of those. I'm like, man, for a month that's just like what I do, like Henry cavill. But um, and I think I just thought of him because of the mission impossible movie that just came out, but I could see him pulling it off. Okay. So here's the pair that I came up with. Um, I was thinking like Lily Collins or Lucy Hale for Lucy, which really collins is, um, she's like the girl who was in that mirror mirror snow white. Oh, okay. Do you know what I'm talking about? And then Lucy Hale is, she was on pretty little liars. Okay. I think that they are like small and demeaning, diminutive enough. You know who I was thinking who, um, I can't think of her name now. It just went out of my brain, Willie James Williams. When we go to the mother of dragons. Oh, Khaleesi. Emilia Clarke would be good. She would be good, I could see her like her and Henry Kendall. Yeah. Um, I was also thinking for the, for him, I could see, I don't know if he's got, like the acting chops, but you know, Robbie and mill. Yes. From the death. Yeah. I think he could be a good too. And I think like if you're going younger. Yes, definitely. Yeah. So I don't know. And I think he's like within the realm of possibility for like casting. I don't know if Henry Cabot, we'll do a Romcom I don't think you would do Romcom here's why. And I know a lot of people up Henry cavill but like mom and I go to comicon a lot and he's been there a few times and there's like a bunch of people that come out and they're like super charming Henry cavill not feeling. He's like Shyer in real life. Yeah. He's like Josh, I think um, however you're right, he didn't, he wasn't the um, Tom Hiddleston or, or the Chris Evans see. But those are the guys who couldn't pull it off being grumpy gus at the beginning. I know. And anyway. But yes, you would need someone who could be just totally, because you've got to hate him in the beginning. Yeah. You need a column for a younger column first. Yeah. Yeah. Younger. How dare you. Don't ostracize me for that comment. Any other on the heating game?
Speaker 1:No, but I feel like we've wound and I did not hit it. We did not hate the game. No. Um, so those are our thoughts on the Hayden game by Sally Thorn. We would love to hear from you. I know you all have been like dying to let us know your casting choices because that was huge last time. I was a lot of fun with Roomy, so I would love to hear what you all are thinking for, for who you love to see as Lucy and Josh. Um, so we'd love to hear from you on our facebook page, our good reads group, our twitter, which is at, not your mom's rom or you can email us at not your mom's Romance Book Club at Gmail Dot Com. So if you want to read along with us and email us with your thoughts or if you would like to suggest a book for us to read, we love to hear from you. On August 20th we will be discussing flowers from the storm by Laura can sail. I'm, I'm excited to read this because I know it's kind of a classic in the genre and a lot of people really like it or at least respect it as, as a book within the, the romance genre. So, um, I think it should be an interesting, an interesting one. Um, for now we're going to take break and we come back. We'll be talking about Dr. strange pending read two books this week and we liked the first one. I wonder if we're gonna like the second one who wrote it again.
Speaker 2:Welcome to our little breaks segments. So for today we're going to be doing some mail time. Um, so we got two emails this week and I thought I would, you know, we've got this first one that's got a lot of recommendations and the second which just got like an interesting little experience by the way I want to say, I love getting emails with recommendations because I get really excited about. Oh, that sounds good. She does. Um, so our first is from Kathy. She says, hi girls, I am anxiously awaiting Monday's podcast to see what you thought of the hating game loft that buck and to hear your thoughts on Dr. strange beard, I cannot wait for Claire and billy's story. It can't come soon enough. I think we might talk about that. Kathy. I'm so, I also want to, she says, I also wanted to say thank you for the Netflix movie recommendation for set it up. I watched it recently. I recently watched it and thoroughly enjoyed it. Made me think of the hating game a little with the crazy assistance trying to manage their bosses. Yeah, I think that's a good comparison there. Um, and I hope by the way, I hope you guys liked though that when we recommend movies and tv because that's a huge thing with mom and I is movies and TV. Um, so we, we enjoy doing those. I hope you guys like those. Um, Kathy says, I have a couple more recommendations to add to your possible tbr pile. These are some books that I read recently and really enjoyed and I thought you might to Lingus Mariana Zapata, contemporary Romcom meet cute at a porn convention. Sounds crazy, right? It is. Turns into friends to lovers, slow burn per on a style. Hilarious story. Witty Banter and excellent side characters. Stayed up until 3:00 AM just to finish. Couldn't put it down. So that's like my, I feel like one of my only blind spots in Mariana Zapata at this point. So, um, I've been wanting to check that one out and I will probably do that. Uh, the second one is the mother road by Megan Quinn, contemporary Romcom family road trip. That includes brother's best friend because of course it does with seemingly unrequited love, but really requited love to love friends to lovers, lots of laugh out loud moments with lots of crazy family humor and pranks along with some sweet, heartwarming moments. Um, so Megan Quinn wrote that do it that I read recently and did not like how it went down. Um, but I've heard that like I can't judge her by that. And this one sounds good. We love a good road trip. Yes we do. And we love good friends to lovers. And I weirdly really like done a lot of family road trips. Yeah, that's true. And I weirdly have like a thing for the brother's friend trope. I don't know why because I don't
Speaker 3:my brother's friends. It gives me weird images in mind, so I don't know why. But anyway. Um, and then
Speaker 2:Kathy's third recommendation is the accidental and trust by trust by Natasha Boyd, contemporary Romcom foams. Switch phone switch at airport. Find strangers getting to know each other and falling in love with woody, sexy texting and some hot phone sex. Good side characters to round out the story. Have a great weekend and I'll be listening to you on Monday, Kathy, which one? When I was in Rumi's where they did the sexy texts and we were like, ah, I don't want to get too tmi with you mom, but the phone, sex, things like that seems to do it for me when I'm reading, I could. I could get tmi with you and you would
Speaker 3:gross. Okay. I'm just saying I can give as well as I get. No, I don't want to hear personal experiences. I had a husband who has gotten a lot on that on that one time. We were digging up like old home videos and there was one where mom was talking to a camera and mom was like, hold on, stop, wait, wait, wait. Can I say our second email comes from Diana
Speaker 2:who has written in before? And she wrote in with like a little experience that I'm going to kind of paraphrase and read some of'em. She says, Hi Elena mom. I was listening to your podcast last podcast and I agree to what Kristin and Ellen said. I don't feel guilty about reading romance anymore because we were talking about the phrase guilty pleasures and she said, why should I feel guilty when I read something that I've always enjoyed? I want to share something with you that happened to me last semester in college. My teacher asked us to read some of the Harlequin romance books because we were doing an analysis of these stories. I used to read those books when I was 13 years old because my aunt used to read them, so I already knew what kind of stories they were. My classmates didn't know anything about them, so I offered to help them to get some of these books. First of all, big up to your teacher for. Yeah, like looking at romance. Well, and let's look at all different kinds of books and instead of just classic literature. Yeah, exactly. Um, so she talks about how she went to this bookstore. They were going to a used bookstore, um, and she went up to the counter to ask a guy if the guy at the store, if they had any harlequin romance novels, and he laughed and asked me why you looking at for those kinds of books when he asked me that, I knew that what I was getting into. Um, it wasn't the first time a man asked me that question. I answered that they were going, that were there for a school project and he asked a school project teachers ask you to read those books. Um, and you know, he was just rude in general and dismissive. Talked about how they'd make her stupider. Yeah. And um, she says, I told my teacher what had happened and she told us that we should never judge people for what they read or what they list or for what they listened to. She said that that man shouldn't have offended me by saying those things. And when his only job was selling books instead of judging people for what they read, I didn't feel offended at that. But by that moment, because I was used to listening to that kind of thing, um, I, she says, I feel very empowered whenever I get to read strong female characters who fight for what she wants and identify with that. I used to say that romance was my guilty pleasure, but not anymore. I won't feel guilty for something that I enjoy and that doesn't hurt anyone. Um, we are not hurting ourselves or anyone by reading romance. So let's embrace our romance books proudly. Diana. I'm totally agree. And I've had to face some of this myself with when to say it to you all the time. I know I'm, the thing is, is like everybody is, I've, I've learned that everybody's reading or watching things or listening to things for different reasons. People search out different things for me, I look, I like stories that make me feel happy and I like having a happy ending. And I like, um, you know, I like romance because it makes me feel all twitter and fluttery. Um, and so that's what I go to stories for. There's people that like only read a nonfiction and I don't. That is not only don't read nonmember. Yeah, that's not my jam. But you know, I. What I've kind of come to the realization of is everybody is a nerd for something. Everybody is, you know, geeks out about something. Maybe it's sports, maybe it's Romcoms, maybe it's science documentaries, but. And so, you know, to each his own. Why does everybody have to like hate on something because they think it's less than what they like. I Dunno. Well I also think, you know, there's a lot of movies that I think sound like they would be really good movies, but I never get around to watching them because I just am never in the mood because I know like 12 years a slave, which I'm sure is a fantastic movie, but when I sit down to watch movie, I've never thought, wow, I really want to watch you guys all[inaudible]. I've never seen saving private Ryan and you guys don't give me like a ton of grief because I've never seen it. But it's the same thing.
Speaker 3:I know, but you're not here.
Speaker 2:But anyway, with reading it's the same thing. I mean I could go read like um, a while ago I read the book, the girl on the train, which was a really good book, but it was so heavy and dark and I was like okay, I got to cleanse my Palette with some romance. Yeah. And so, you know, I think that people just need to be a little bit more accepting in a lot of respects. But we, you know, talking specifically about, you know, and I've had to, I've been thinking about this lately because I'm, I have a lot of people that are my friends on good reads who are like people that I know in real life and I'm like man, will people in real life they must like look at my book list and be like she's, this girl needs to like branch out, stop reading books with like shirtless men on the cover because that's what mine basically looks like as I'm sure many of your stairs. And to the point where like I've kind of stopped accepting friend requests from like actual people. I'm more excited when like I see some of y'all like requests to be my friend on facebook. I'm on good reads. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 3:your friendly. You're like, well no judging.
Speaker 2:Um, but. And not that I feel ashamed, but just like, it's just easier to avoid. Kind of like Diana was saying, it's like it's just easier to avoid but the comments and things like that. But it's funny because every now and then on my Amazon account it'll say book suggested for you and there'll be something in there. I'm like, why would Amazon suggests
Speaker 3:that there's no way I'd read this. What is your problem? Go home. You're drunk. So anyway,
Speaker 2:again, we don't, we don't have, don't hate, congratulate, like, you know, we're going to go with it. Yeah. You don't feel guilty about it. Don't feel guilty. I think that's silly. Anyway, so again, we love getting emails, the tweets, the facebook comments, keep them coming. We will either respond or read them, you know, maybe both. Maybe both. Anyway, see you next time. Bye. So we're back. Mom. Last week we got a new western brothers book. Are you aware of West with Winston brothers? Is it
Speaker 3:Winston? Winston, why are you saying it like that?
Speaker 2:So this is the fifth ish book in the series, depending if you count Ashley's book or not. Um, and it came out last week and it focuses on the youngest brother of the Winston Brewed Roscoe and his lady love Simone. So this is going to be kind of fast and loose. I don't really have a description or anything written for this one and we are going to get into spoilers and this one has not been out for very long. So you might want to just tune out if you have not read this lab. Found that if we do a book that just came out recently, people don't listen to it because they want to wait until they read the book to listen, which is fine. Do that. That's totally fine. But we don't want to ruin things for everybody. Yes. Because with this one, there's a lot, there's a lot going on, a lot of spoilers and things that we're going to get into. Um, so mom, what did you think? Oh my God,
Speaker 3:I liked her too, but I just, gosh, I just wanted to hug him.
Speaker 2:He is so sweet. He's so. He's such like a tender soul. Well, just the image of him on the ground covered in puppies.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh. I was like, that's ridiculous. It was ridiculous. I love how she was just like, this is ridiculous. Yeah, exactly. I don't have any, but yes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I, I loved it. A per usual. I, I think maybe it's a little too early, but maybe this is my favorite. After Jen and cletus we talked about this. Yeah, we had this discussion. We ranked them and I think this might be mind after jen and to. Yeah, I really liked. I loved both of them. I, I mean he is such a sweet baby angel. I just love him so much. Um, and I loved her. They tortured memory thing. I know I add that like his whole memory because he has like, I'm not gonna remember the term, but basically it's sort of photographic way. It's. Yeah, it's more like he remembers like emotions and feelings and situations more than he. He like, he can't memorize a page by looking at it and I thought that it a really interesting element, almost like sometimes it felt like a paranormal, right? Cause you know, he's kind of flashing back and forth through time and he's getting these snippets that just keep cropping up. And I really loved her. I thought she was a lot of fun. Um, and I thought she was really Sassy and funny per usual with Penny Reed characters. Um, and like I thought her job and added an interesting element, especially within the grander story of the Winston brothers. Um, I just really loved them and I think what I liked about Roscoe is that I didn't know a lot about Roscoe. I think he's been a very side side character because he's been, was up now and then. But yeah, and he's been away for school and he kind of, I think is a little bit more removed from some of the rest of them by age and things like that. Um, because, you know, like when we got cletus's book, I was like, ready for cletus. I knew cletus, you know, because we'd seen so much in the first couple of weeks. Um, and so yeah, it was just fun to kind of get to know him better and fall in love with him. I think he's just kinda the quieter stand offish winston brother. He's kind of, you know, different. He's different than a lot of the other guys. Yeah, it's true. And, but I did love, I mean I loved seeing Jen and cletus and their little quirkiness in the book and just seeing the other characters and you know, uh, yeah, there's actually and her mama bear, you know, take this was definitely a fun one just because like we know so much of the rest of the family by now that seeing them and now they're all like so paired off and things like that and seeing everybody, like because holy time jump Batman, there was like a five year jump. There's all kinds of kids. There's a lot of babies, marriages and yet and marriages and engagements.
Speaker 3:Billy was like, wait, what
Speaker 2:seem like on the, you know, like penny reads fanpage and stuff. Everybody's like, chapter three blew my mind, like everybody keeps talking about chapter three because that's when you find out.
Speaker 3:Well, I even texted him like literally, I was like a little kid on princess bride. Wait, Grandpa, wait, that can't be right. Hold on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's engaged to someones sister Jannie, but you know, by the end. That's a little into question. Wow. Yeah. A lot into question.
Speaker 3:First of all, from the beginning was into question. That's like, everyone's like freaking out. I'm like, why are you freaking out? You know, she's going to end up with, with Claire.
Speaker 2:Um, but my other revelation that came out in that chapter that I am really interested in is Isaac is actually undercover. Oh yeah. Big Spoilers by the way, with the iron rates and he's been working undercover all this time. And do I want him to get his own book? Yes. But more than that, I want him to be able to have his relationship with his sister back. I want to be able to be friends with Jana again. I know I really end like there's so you can really feel in this one that she is an ramping up to that Green Valley series that she's announced and then also the gen and cletus
Speaker 3:things would get thrown out and they're like, wait, who's been running? It was running away because they were being accused of murder. What is going on? What is going on here? Jen was in prison.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, there's a lot of things like that and I'm like, you know, she knows how to get us. Not that like she had to even do that to get us. But um, yeah, I'm so excited for the Green Valley serious because, you know, there's a lot of players that are introduced in this book or like alluded to more in this book where it's like, you know, getting a book, you know, Isaac's gonna eventually get a book. Um, what was the other one? Or was that her name? Jackson Jackson Jackson needs. But then there's like these girls, right? That keep getting introduced. And I'm like, oh, she's going to end up with one of those guys and yeah. So we're ready. Bring it on. I'm not that we weren't before. Um, so roscoe sweet baby Angel Roscoe was a virgin
Speaker 3:and I loved that and I love that he was because she's like, why are you in Virginia? He's like, because I have a good memory, but gosh, you just know that. Yeah,
Speaker 2:he wanted it to be with her only. Well he, I think that and it's like, it's always going to mean more to him, right? Like no matter who it was with, it's like he's not going to go have just some like casual one night stand because he's going to remember that for the rest of the year of his life. It didn't seem to hamper his abilities in any way.
Speaker 3:She's a romance. Never done.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah. And like sneaking a phone sex like they had some pretty. They did get her phone sex. Um, but yeah, I loved that. I loved just like how sweet they were. And um, I love with them that they were both pretty. I mean like he's obviously in love with her and was always in love with her, but like she gets on board pretty quick too. And that their relationship is fairly drama free, even the ending to where, well, this was another one where this could have been like, you know, we've read books where this could have been like, oh, and chapters, chapters, chapters later she's pissed for. He's pissed because he would have been mad. And this one because he finds out that she's been working. Yeah. Like she was supposed to get close to him to find out about his father for the SBI and I'm. So you knew he was going to find out and you knew was going to be mad about it. And he was. But then it was pretty quickly that he's like, oh my gosh. He had his epiphany. Yeah. What am I doing? I love her. I don't care if she's been working on, I am not gonna she, you know, I think she catches on like, oh, this is going to make him feel like this. I need to explain it in these terms. Um, and just, you know, I think he's able to kind. I think maybe with his memory too, he's able to reflect like, no, that was, that was real. Like what we're feeling is real and so they resolve it fairly drama free with the exception that he gets shot and give it up for like a split second. I was like,
Speaker 3:she's going to kill him. Right. She wouldn't do that to us.
Speaker 2:Um, but of course she didn't. But um, yeah, I was really worried there for a second about sweet baby roscoe. Um, oh, you mean penny reed and he might smell smell. It's not going to kill anybody. I was worried that penny was going to kill him and that wouldn't have me sad, but I didn't do that to us. I know she, um, but yeah. So, uh, and I thought that was. So we talked about this prior, but the tears overflow with. And this one too, I was like, I cried multiple times. Well, Ellen could read you. Her texts
Speaker 3:is Roscoe and virgin.
Speaker 2:I had read it faster than mom, which is usually the case. Um, and yeah, so mom kept was catching up and I would
Speaker 3:get like a virgin,
Speaker 2:but yeah, I think the two times I cried, I cried when um, I think it was like when they were admitting, like when he said that when she said to her parents that she loved him and he was like,
Speaker 3:wait, what? I was crying during that time when, because she's on the phone with her mom and she said I'm with Roscoe[inaudible] I love him and I want to be here with him and, and Roscoe her.
Speaker 2:I will. Yeah, I really liked that. And then I cried when Roscoe kind of goes off on billy and is like, you need to take care of you. And like, and when he's talking about like, you know, you were there for me, you always coached me,
Speaker 3:coach all my teeth. I was like so amazing to take care of yourself, get that book written.
Speaker 2:I know she announced that there's going to be a little delay, but it's fine. You do you. But um, yeah, I also thought that in regards to Simone, um, that she handled, you know, because Simone is African American and um, she handled the, you know, those moments really well, you know, there's a moment where she gets pulled over by this cop and he's an asshole and I'm harassing her. Yeah. And I thought that she handled that really well. She has, you know, because Ashley comes out and is trying to defend her and I really liked when simone was like, you were amazing future reference, you know, let me do me, let me, let me take care of like asked me how I'm doing, ask me how I'm feeling and let me be my own voice. Like I don't need you. I don't want you to step in. And part of it, because I think she would have been a little more aggressive with it, but she was trying to keep a low profile and she didn't want to make a big stink about it. And I just liked that even within the patrons themselves as a family, you get kind of different, um, different outlooks on, on the issues of race. And on the things that they face, you know, like they talk about how her, how her parents gave them all like the talk, right. Like you have, if you get pulled over, you need to be calm, you need to move slowly, you need to never reach for like told her brother outright, you know, you're a black male and this is the way you're going to be treated and you just need to be aware. He was like, okay, I'm out of here then, you know, um, and so you get to see, you know, lots of different opinions even just within that family about how they, how they deal with it. And I thought that that was really well done. I think she always think penny reed always handles kind of more diversey yeah. Kind of more controversial topics. I'm really well. And she kind of always presents different viewpoints, viewpoints, um, and is never like too preachy. And I always really liked that, about, about her books. Um, this is a friends to lovers, which is another trope that we love, um, especially friends who've known each other that whole lives. We love that. Yeah. And all of a sudden what I'm in love with you. Yes I am. Yeah. Here's the question I had for you. Do you want it to see Daryl get any sort of redemption arc or do you just want him to kind of get kicked to the curb? I don't know. He's so bad. This is my thing because there's, we've read other series of books where I'm like, there's no way this guy can be a hero in a book because I hate him so much. Yeah. I can't imagine that she gets us to the point where we're like, I want to daryl book. Um, but I don't want to daryl book. No, but do I want to see him? The only redemption I could see for him is if he gives his life to save one of his kids. Yeah. I mean, I'm not trying to tell her how to write a book, so I'm just saying no. Yeah. Um, yeah. I think that um, I would like him to get a redemption arc in that the kids get some like peace with their relationship with their father, whether he. Yeah, goes out in a blaze of glory to help save them somehow, or you know, he apologizes on his death bed as he's, you know, he's got this razor all jacked up and he's going to be a key player in the next book because billy, billy, billy, I mean we know we're all, everybody is excited for billing Clare's book, but as soon as they talked about like, raise your hand, all those cuts on his hands are like, was it you that cut his hands? I was like, oh no. That was not to have been billy. Billy written all over it. Um, yeah. So she's really, she's really set everything up for really good climactic ending there with billy and with the razor and the iron rates thing and Darryl and Darryl, I mean, it might come into play that Darryl. See, that's what I'm saying. If he kind of gets between razor and billy, which might be a thing because he's supposed to write, he's supposed to be giving information to the feds now on the iron race because philly's giving him bone marrow, which I as soon as they were like billy and Roscoe are the only two that can give darrel bone marrow. I was like, it's going to be building that's going to happen. Billy's billy is so anti, like wanting to give it that it's going to be him. Um, and then this was a thing that I saw referenced on her fan page, but do you remember when they're talking about how um, Bethany would give Ross going simone food and she'd say, Hey, go put this on the edge of the forest for the pixies. Um, so there, the blurb for Clare's book talks about how she lived in a tent out in the smoky mountains. So people are speculating that that was bethany trying to get food to Claire. Claire. I'm tearing up. So that's an interesting little tidbit that I saw. And I'm like, oh, Bethany, you raised them boys. So good. So good. I love how they're always saying[inaudible]. My Mama raised me Mama. Um, and then my little final note, mom, as if we could not love penny reed enough, she referenced Mystery Science Theater in this book. I saw that. So mom raised me on mystery science theater. I did so because I'm a terrible mother. Ellen one point out. Um, but yeah, that's like a family favorite. So I was like definitely a family favorite. So psyched when I saw that. Um, anyway, mom, other thoughts on Dr. strange beard just loved it. I loved him. I love it. This one had a different feel to it than some of the other ones. Just it was definitely like heavy plot. Um, and like the romance was definitely a huge thing definitely. But there was also just so much going on, you know, with the whole, uh, well, and again, it's because she's trying to bring it all to a head in the last books. But yeah. Um, I, I loved it. I loved that it was a, I just, and I loved seeing all the other characters and I love seeing the babies and I love seeing just the way everybody is evolved and being clowns at the birthday party that was so cute. Shelly was juggling and you know that because the last one I read was shelley and Boeing and you know, she was kind of a hot mess through a lot of that book and so to see her settled down and doing well and I just loved it. Oh, jethro being Mr. Mom and yeah. Oh Gosh. I know, right? Just be like a TV show or Mr Mom type character. Um, yeah, we loved it and I, yeah, like you said, I just, I loved getting to know Roscoe better and getting to see all of them kind of. I liked, you know, I, I really liked the time jump. I liked getting to see people a little bit more subtle. I really liked the time jump and seeing. Yeah. And I think that, you know, all those questions that we have about like, Whoa, wait, what happened? That's all going to get answered. And it just makes me more excited to see them and I don't think there's going to be much of a time jump to the next book. No, because he's already in Italy, Italy and Claire's in Italy. So it's all set up. Start to get that book written. Anyway, those are feelings on Dr. Strange. Beard, we would love to hear what you all thought of this one. Um, I know that there's a lot of penny reed man's among our listeners, so we'd love to hear what you think. Also, this is a, I'll know also put this out on twitter and facebook. Um, but mom and I, my sister in law, mom's daughter in law, we want to get her to read her first romance novel and come and talk about it with us on the show. So if you have a good recommendation for like if you're trying to advance virgin. Yeah, for a Romance Virgin. Um, if you're trying to get a friend into romance, like what would you have them read? Ellen started me with Tessa. Darrin. Sarah Maclean's.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they're really good. It was a lot of. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:So if you have a good recommendation for that specific situation, I would love to hear it. Um, and you know, that's where you're thinking is starting here with a winston brother book. Yeah. Yes. I think she should read those anyway, but uh, I think, I think that should be required reading. Yeah.
Speaker 3:School.
Speaker 1:So thanks so much for joining us again. If you would like to join us for flowers from the storm by Laura can sale in two weeks, month, August 20th. You can subscribe on itunes or Google play, or you can find us on twitter at not your mom's rom or on facebook or good reads, or email us at your mom's Romance Book Club at Gmail Dot. Cool. Thanks. Thanks Alan.