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Travel Mug Podcast
Making Travel Easier as You Age: Mobility-Friendly Travel Tips
Cary Lowe, author of On Two Legs and Three Wheels, and his wife Trish join us to chat about traveling as you age, and traveling using a mobility scooter. Cary and Trish have traveled to over half of the United States and to more than 20 countries, and share their wisdom on traveling with mobility challenges.
No matter your physical ability or age, this episode is inspiring!
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We are travel enthusiasts who do not claim to be professionals! Instead, we are two Halifax, NS natives with travel blogs who somehow found one another on the internet, and now, we have a podcast!!
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Disclaimer: All episodes are based on our opinions and experiences. Always do your research and make travel plans based on your budget and comfort levels.
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Travel Mug podcast. As always, I am joined by my podcasting partner, Jenn. We are very excited today to be joined by Cary Lowe and his wife Trish, all the way from California. Cary is a two-time author with his most recent book On Two Legs and Three
Wheels:the travel adventures of a couple overcoming age and disability, which has brought them to the show today. Trish has multiple sclerosis and uses a mobility scooter. Cary and Trish have continued to travel the world and have adventures leading ultimately to carry writing this book. To share their travel stories. We think it is a super important topic and not one that we've really explored before on the podcast, so we are grateful to have you both here. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Awesome. So I wanna start with your obvious love of travel. Uh, where does that come from? When did you first catch the travel bug? You know, I think we both grew up in families that traveled a lot. Um, I, I grew up, uh, in Europe and distances, of course, they were much smaller. So back in those days we drove all over Europe in my childhood. Um, and when we moved to the United States, um, we. Continue to travel as a family. And then once I left home, I continued to travel independently and Trish lived her whole life here in the US but you know, her family was also very travel prone. I, I grew up in Detroit and my father in particular, my family was really into, you know, seeing the USA. So he would pile us all in the station wagon and we would go all over the place. We'd drive from Detroit to California. We did that a number of times. Oh wow. And so Wow. very brave parents, huh? Because we were little. But it was, it was great. And that was my experience. So I was, yeah. And, and that was something that, uh, tied us together right from the start was mm-hmm. Uh, our mutual love of travel and new experiences, new places and so on. So that, um, in, in some ways, I would say this book almost wrote itself because we had so many stories to tell. Mm-hmm. Definitely. I love that. My, my husband and I are very similar. We both love to travel and it's sort of a tie that really binds. Obviously Jenn and her husband are the same, so I, I think that that's, that can be a, a, a really great thing to share as a Yeah. I do, I do wanna ask, in terms of, being a disabled traveler, what do you think in terms of advice may disabled travelers need to consider when booking travel, and how does that factor into your trip planning process? Well, I, I think the number one bit of advice we'd give any disabled traveler or their companions, families and so on is. Um, be flexible. be Uh, yeah, do your research plan well. But, uh, ultimately be flexible because mm-hmm. Uh, you will encounter obstacles. Some of them will be insurmountable. Mm-hmm. Uh, so you have to have contingency plans. Mm-hmm. But, uh, the key to enjoying, uh, a vacation trip or any kind of travels when you're limited in any way, but especially physically, is that you're, you're able to deal with these things and not have them ruin your experience, uh, and if you maintain that kind of flexibility. You know, you can go almost anywhere. Mm-hmm. Uh, you may be limited in the extent of your, uh, explorations and some, but there are very few places that you can't go. I mean, we went clear the Arctic Ocean. Uh, and, uh, just mm-hmm. Had a, a fantastic experience. So, you know, that that's, I think certainly my number one advice is that, that that flexibility and smile a lot. Yeah. Because you're gonna need to ask people for help along the way. Yeah. And it's, uh, and, and most people are happy to help. They want to help. Yeah. But, uh, a smile and a gracious demeanor takes you a long way to getting people to Be of assistance. I think, I think that that's honestly amazing life Yeah. in general. I, I think that those things can take you a long way. And I think I was thinking when you were talking about flexibility, that it almost comes back to the type of attitude that you have going into it to Mm-hmm. being understanding that things can happen. However, will you let those inconveniences you ruin your time or do you, uh, roll with the flow essentially. And it certainly sounds like the attitude is a big part of it. Very much. Yeah. How do you start trip planning? Do you like ask people for advice or do you just choose somewhere where you want to go and then research, um, how you might be able to navigate it? You wanna, well, I think we start with where we wanna go. Mm-hmm. And we don't worry about whether it's gonna be accessible. Um. Because again, our experience has been in even the most inaccessible places you can make it work. There's always people who want to assist you or help you, whatever. Mm-hmm. And don't be afraid to accept their help. I mean, don't, don't insult them. Don't say, oh, I don't know. I'm, I'm okay. Just say, well, thank you. You know, I appreciate, and I think that's so important that not feeling, um, uncomfortable being assisted as as you go along, particularly when you're in a place you don't know when you're visiting for the first time and you say, oh, thank you. I've never been here before. You know, that kind of thing. And they'll love, they love it. Mm-hmm. But once we've selected a location, you know, then the planning does begin. Right? Uh, the, the research, uh, especially if it's a place we haven't been before. Uh, yeah. And there's these days, there's so much information available online, uh, most uh, countries, regions, cities have websites, uh, dedicated to tourism and travel. Um, some even have specific websites dedicated to disabled travel. Uh, that's becoming more common. Uh, right. So there's quite a bit of information that you can glean from those sites, but then you really need to get more specific. Let's say a website suggests a half a dozen hotels in a given city or on an island or something like that, uh, are characterized as accessible. You can't just assume that that's, uh, all you need to know. Yeah. Because the definition of accessibility varies so much. Yeah. From place to place, right here in the United States, we have the Americans with Disability Act, which sets pretty clear standards for accessibility in public places and accommodations, but most places don't have something quite that specific. Right. Uh, and when you talk to someone at a, even at a travel agency or a hotel mm-hmm. You need to be very precise about what you need to know. So for example, does a room have, uh a bathroom with grab bars at the toilet, does it have a roll-in shower without a step? Um, how much room is there around the beds for a scooter or wheelchair to maneuver? To get from the, uh, uh, the lobby to the room or to the restaurant or to the swimming pool? Mm-hmm. Uh, are there, are all of those, routes of travel without steps or are there elevators? Mm-hmm. Uh, and, and sometimes you'll find the people, I've never even thought about it. Mm-hmm. Because they don't, you know, if you don't need to worry about it. And I find that it really helps is, let me put it this way imagine yourself if you had to travel on wheels, if you could only go on wheels, take a look around with the places I need to go. From the lobby to my room. Mm-hmm. From my room, to the restaurant, from my room to the pool, whatever, can I get there on wheels? And that, and that, that really helps. Yeah. And even then, there are differences between accessibility, say for wheelchairs and scooters. Mm-hmm. Right. Okay. uh, scooters have small wheels. They can't get over some bumps or small steps that a, that a wheelchair could. On the other hand, uh, wheelchairs are a lot heavier and so they will sink into soft ground or gravel or, you know, nonsolid surfaces more easily than a scooter will. So these are. Uh, things that you learned from experience, but that the people you're talking to may very well never have even considered before, so mm-hmm. Again, very precise Questioning, uh, helps a lot. Even then, just to give you a quick example of how even the best research doesn't always get you what you hoping for. We, Slovenia, uh, where we were a few years ago, uh, is trying very hard to be accessible on a national level. They even have a website dedicated to accessibility. So in the capital city there of Ljubljana, we found a hotel, the only one we could find that could offer an accessible room. Mm-hmm. And, uh, in most respects, the room was accessible, but there was one, uh, important quirk, and that was that because this was an old building that had been retrofitted, the entrance to the bathroom involved a very tight 90 degree turn once you got through the doorway. Well, it was just too tight a turn for the scooter to make. So fortunately on that trip we had a walker along and Trish was still mobile enough to be able to use a walker. So that saved the day. And they were apologetic. They said, geez, we just never realized that it, it would be that difficult for someone on a, a wheelchair scooter to make that turn and no, they didn't have any room that had a, an easier entry. Yeah. You know, but, so it's just an example of how even when you do your homework as well as you can mm-hmm. You gotta be prepared for the unexpected. Uh, and, you know, prepare as well as you can, bring along whatever you need, uh, as to, to carry out contingency plans. Right. And I, I think that really well into the next question, because you've been traveling for a long time. So how would you say has the world become more accessible since you've been traveling in terms of mobility aids Mm-hmm. of things, how has it changed? I think we've noticed significant change over time that there are places that were notorious for being not very disabled friendly in the past, , that have tried really hard to, to change that. Uh, the best example I can think of immediately is Paris. Yeah. Uh, which had a, an awful reputation in that respect years ago. And yet when we were there, um. And, and Trish had been there, uh, a long time ago before she was, uh, had her disability and, , kind of remembered it being not very accessible in those days. Right. But when we went there. I don't know, five or six years ago, we found it had changed drastically. Not only, uh, were people trying hard to, to make things welcoming and accessible for us. Mm-hmm. But. Um, they had done a lot of retrofitting. There were very few places that we couldn't get into at all. Just some older buildings where it was just too difficult to retrofit them. And we understand that. Yeah. But, um. The public places were incredibly accessible and in addition to their physical accessibility, just to show you how welcoming they are to disabled travelers. Mm-hmm. Uh, at the Louvre, there could be a long line of people waiting to buy tickets. You don't need a ticket if you're in a wheelchair or scooter. You are not charged anything for entry and you go right in without even needing tickets. Right to the front door. Yeah. At at the Eiffel Tower. We didn't know that. Same thing at the Eiffel Tower. There's always a line, a mile long. Right. People waiting to, to ride up there. Yeah. We're preparing to get tickets and getting the line. We weren't getting in the line. Yeah. And a guide comes over and says, oh no, you don't need to do that. You don't need tickets. Follow me and it takes us to a separate elevator that's, you know, for dignitaries and disabled people and you know, special people that are Yeah, and they're like. Kinda like trying for people not to see us.'cause there's this big Yeah. Yeah. Right. And we're just going right past along. But I you know, that, that kind of thing I think shows you how, how hard they're trying. Some things they can't overcome like the subway system there, the metro. Just only some stations have elevators and so you need to know in advance or avoid using it. We found that buses in Paris were all equipped with ramps, so that was a way better a means of getting around. And there were lots of taxi cabs that were SUV type vehicles. Where you could load a scooter, a wheelchair into the back. Mm-hmm. Um, so we had no problems. But again, if we had planned on using the subway, we would've been terribly disappointed, frustrated, but we kind of knew that in advance from our research. So we just found other ways to get around and it worked out terrifically. And I guess I would advise anyone hoping to go to Paris. It is much more, um. Giving to a, a handicapped traveler. They really are. And, uh, yeah, they want to help, you know, handicap travelers enjoy their city. Mm-hmm. And I, I think you just remember that and, um, that because they're not the, the gruff Parisians that, that I remember. Well, I went to the University of Bordeaux, so this was, we're talking like ancient history and it was like, you know, and it was horrible. Paris was awful. And uh, they even spoke a different French mean, I spoke French with a Bordeaux accent and I go to Paris and they would just like, turn their nose up, you know, they didn't wanna, didn't wanna hear me. But, um, but Paris is completely different now, and I would say have no hesitation about going to Paris. No. And even in, uh, uh, places we, from Paris, we went to Provence and we explored all these medieval hill towns and, you know, places that you wouldn't expect would be accessible at all. And, and they're limited. You know, there are places we couldn't go because of stairs or steep slopes and so on, but within reason. They had made things accessible to the point where I, I remember being at a restaurant or cafe in this one, particularly, uh, steep Hill town and, , when Trish needed to use the restroom there. It was impossible to get to the public restroom, without going downstairs. But the proprietor remembered, oh, there was this other restroom around the back that the workers sometimes, let me show you. And you know, she took her there and it all worked out and it's just as you were talking about attitude. Well, it's not just the mm-hmm. Traveler's attitude. It's also the attitude of the people you're dealing with and how Right. Willing they are to assist you or help find ways to accommodate you. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's so awesome and great to hear that they are trying, that a lot of Yeah. Yeah. are trying. Yeah. So you've mentioned in the book that you've become quite adept at traveling on a plane with the scooter. So what tips do you have for someone who might be doing that for the first time? Okay. Well, unfortunately you have to go to the, to the counter. You can't just check in at, , at the sidewalk. So you go to the counter. And they see you driving up in your scooter, so they know you're going to need, need something, and you say, I need to drive my scooter to the door of, of the plane. So you want to try to get them to not try to take your mobility device device away from you and send you to the, the plane and you know, some other device. So I always insist I need to take my scooter with me to the door. Um, and on some planes they're big enough. Like in American Airlines, you can literally drive onto the airplane with it. Um, and, and again, depends on the, the way the stewardesses and, and the people at the door. Um, some of them are, in fact, nowadays, most of them are very helpful, very amenable, so I think that that's important to remember that don't accept. Oh no, don't accept no. No, is not the, the end of the conversation. Mm-hmm. It's just the beginning. Yeah. It's just the beginning. Right. But even when you're, uh, checking in at the, um, ticket counter to begin with mm-hmm. There are some important things they want to know for example, the weight of the scooter. Right., Because it becomes a piece of baggage, right? It's gonna be loaded into the baggage compartment of the plane. Right. They wanna know what kind of batteries. You have because, uh, some kinds are not allowed and some need to be disconnected, , before they're stored. Mm-hmm., So it's important to be able to say that they are sealed batteries. Mm-hmm. They, nothing can leak from them. They're, they're not prone to catching fire or anything like that. Yeah. Um, 'cause they don't like to store, , lithium oxide batteries in. Right in baggage, uh, because there have been incidents of them, catching fire. Fortunately scooter, uh, and wheelchair batteries typically are not that type. Right., The, the, the negative thing to be, uh, aware of if you're going to be, , using a mobility device to, to get to the plane, is that, so once you check it. Uh, there at the door to the plane you're not gonna see it again until you get off the plane, and it often is one of the last things taken off so you can plan on sitting for a while at your destination waiting for the, uh, your scooter or wheelchair to arrive. And even if it gets there sooner, they still are gonna make you wait while everyone else de planes. Because you need assistance in getting off and you know, they don't wanna hold everybody else up. Yeah. Typically these days they will have, smaller wheelchairs, they call aisle chairs mm-hmm. To get you from the door to your seat and back. Right. If you're not able to walk at all, which is now Trish's situation, well they don't always have those aisle chairs on the plane. A lot of planes, the larger planes typically do, but you can't count on it. And we had a unfortunate experience, , a couple years ago landing in Munich and, for some reason, an aisle chair, they didn't have one on the plane and there wasn't one immediately available. So we had to wait and wait and wait, and the crew couldn't leave until we could we're off, so everybody was getting pretty tired of this. The pilot, the pilots, and irritated. And I finally convinced the captain to allow me to bring Trish's Scooter onto the plane, which was against their regulations. But he finally was so desperate to resolve the situation that he, he let me do it and mm-hmm. We got off and. All went on our way. Mm-hmm. And they were grateful that we were able to solve that. Mm-hmm. But it's just my point is just that, as with so many other things, be prepared for the unexpected., And it's sometimes it's just completely outta your control and it's even out of the control of the people that you're dealing with. Uh, so everybody's gotta be flexible and, uh, and try to maintain a, a, a sense of mm-hmm. You know, a good humor about it to the extent you can. And, uh, I, I hate to call it bribery, but one thing that we have found. As Cary has this great, I call it bribery, but he always brings, um, a nice box of like Godiva chocolates onto the plane with him Hmm. to like the head stewardess or the head whatever, and Mm-hmm. to her, him, him or her, um, I know when they see me, I know we, we may end up needing your, your, your help a little bit more than, than another passenger might. So I just wanted to thank you in advance. And they always love it. I know they don't consider it Bri, of course they do! They love it. You know, they don't consider it bribing, you know, they, they really appreciate. Yeah.'cause very few people do that Yeah. Kind of thing. And uh, so just the gesture is appreciated. Yeah. Uh, and they dote on us way more than they do on other passengers, even in first class. So it's, uh, yeah, it's, it's well worth that, uh, 10 or $20 investment. Yes. What is going through airport security like, uh, in a mobility scooter? Yeah. Well, describe your typical experience. Um, it's not bad. I mean, it really isn't. Um, most airports provide for, um, handicap access through security separate from people just walking up. Mm-hmm. So in general, you will go through a separate door, a separate Well, you will, I'll, I'll go through the regular line. Yes. He has to go through the regular line. Trish will go through, I separate, I have to wait room on the other side. But, but yeah, they will, um, they'll take you through a separate gate and they will, wand, they will wand you for, you know. The things that they run everybody else through an x-ray for., I can't think of an airport that didn't have that, that no, but some are more efficient about it than others. Sometimes you have security people that are more or less experienced in dealing with, , disabled travelers. So, you know, sometimes it goes really quickly, sometimes it takes a little longer, but it, it. In our experience, it has not been, uh, a, a bad situation. It just, again, be patient, be a little flexible, but it, it works out fine. And once you're through that security point, it's no different from anybody else. Yeah. Until you're boarding Yeah. the plane. But then when you get to the gate, you know, when you're getting your, uh, what you call it, boarding pass, they will definitely do two things for you. You make sure they understand that you need your wheelchair or you need your scooter at the door of the plane, at the door of the plane, that you cannot get off the plane without it. And they're, and they're always good about that. They really are. With one exception, we only had one experience where they really screwed that up, uh, at, the airport in Newark, where um, they, for some unknown reason, they delivered the scooter to baggage. Instead of to the plane. And then we were sitting there on the plane while they searched for it, and eventually they took a, took Trish in a, in a wheelchair down to, , the, uh, baggage carousels and yeah, we finally got reunited with the, their scooter. But, but other than that one experience where somebody just blew it, just didn't know what they were doing. Yeah., It's always, uh, really, really good about it. It's always worked out fine. The scooter gets delivered to the door of the plane, uh, and then it's just a matter of whether we have to wait a little while while other people are deplaning and they will tag it. Mm-hmm. For, you know, it's like a stroller. I, I hate to make that comparison, but it's like a baby stroller. Yeah. You know, someone, a parent needs to bring the baby. Or a small child to the door of the plane in their stroller, it's the same thing. Yeah. They tag it and take it away. Yeah. But the one other thing that people should be aware of that's really helpful is that if you're going to have an extended the layover, , and changing planes along the way, uh, you can arrange to get your vehicle back at the interim, stop. Mm-hmm. If you want to, , you have a choice, typically, you can either check it all the way to your destination, uh, and just use one one of the airports manual wheelchairs, , at your, uh, interim stop. Or you can ask to have it delivered to the plane. At, at your first stop, use it there. You check it back in and then get it again at your final destination. So that's pretty handy if you're going to be in a, an airport, especially a large airport where you may need to move around a bit to find places to eat, or maybe you're, yeah, you're, uh, uh, departure gate is quite a distance, maybe even a different terminal than the one you arrived at. And always ask, always ask the people on your plane. How far is it from where our gate is to where we have to transfer? Yeah. And sometimes they'll say, oh, it's in the same terminal, and otherwise they'll kinda like roll their eyes and say, well, you better take the airports, you know? Whatever. Yeah. Right, Yeah. Um, the one other thing that, um, to keep in mind when traveling by air is that not every airport has, uh, jet ways that come right up to the plane where you can simply roll off the plane. Right. And we've had several experiences, , a couple of times on Caribbean islands, but also in Paris, if you can believe that. Yeah. Where, um, simply because of the terminal that our plane got routed to, for some reason, where they had to roll stairs up to the, the door of the plane and people walk down the stairs. Well, obviously we weren't gonna be able to do that. And so the ex experience there really varies. If, if you're able to walk at all, they'll assist you down the stairs. If you simply can't walk at all, they may, uh, put you in a, in an aisle chair and carry that down the stairs with you in it. Well, and they also have what they call a stair chair. That, that makes it a little easier. Yeah. The, Yeah. the, the, you might be lucky enough to find that one airport, brought Trish down in the lift that they used to load food and stuff onto the plane. Right. Uh, so you never know what they're gonna wanna do. Yeah. But we had a funny experience arriving, in, um. Bonnaire, in the Caribbean where, um, there was a guy sitting across the aisle from Trish he, he had was a double leg amputee. And, when we, uh, got to our destination, Trish is saying to me, um. God, I don't know how I'm gonna get outta here.'cause there's, there's stairs, you know, we're gonna, again, have to somehow deal with that. Mm-hmm. And he hears her say that and he leans over and he says, Hey, they're gonna get me outta here. They're, it's gonna be a lot easier for you. They're gonna Yeah. Yeah. somehow. Oh my So, He was a scuba diver. Yeah. So, Oh, that's amazing. so that's, I wanted to talk ahead. to talk about with scooters in terms of the, the, the flight aspect of it is do you have to pay extra to take that with No, no, Oh, that's excellent. You don't have to pay extra for a baby stroller. You don't have to pay extra for a wheelchair or a scooter. No. And that's, um, a matter of international agreement that all the airlines, comply with that. So that, that, that's nice., And it's regardless of the weight of the, they wanna know what it weighs, but they're not gonna charge you extra, uh, as they would for overweight baggage. Say, Right. well, they want to know the weight because someone, a guy is gonna bring your wheelchair, your scooter up to the door of the airplane. He is gonna come up in some kind of. An elevator, some type and has, so he has to carry it on and, 'cause they will not, they won't, they won't operate it. Yeah. Okay. also a matter of, uh, pilots are required to do what they call a weight and balance calculation before they can mm-hmm. Take off. And so they, depending on the weight of mm-hmm. Larger objects there, they may have to move things around in, in the cargo hold or mm-hmm. Whatever, to, to make sure that the, the plane is properly balanced. Right. anyway. Yeah. Speaking of balance, how would you say that you balance what you both like to do Hmm. traveling?'cause I know that when my husband and I go places, we're generally on the same page of things we'd like to see, although mine might be a little more food oriented than his, or whatever the Mm-hmm. Right. for you both, how do you, how do you both balance that? Well, I guess the best example is when we go to an island, when we go to the Caribbean, um, Cary dives. And I, and I don't scuba dive, so he'll go and usually he leaves for his dives early in the morning. Well, I'll sleep in a little bit. And I will take my, , scooter or whatever to, um, the dining where, where you, where you eat, where, whether it's in a restaurant or usually it's by a pool or something. And, , so I'll sleep in, have breakfast, cup of coffee, whatever, and, uh, usually take a book or a magazine with you and, uh, entertain myself with that. Or sometimes it's just very pleasant, you know, sitting by the pool. Under a, under an umbrella or whatever., I don't go to the beach 'cause uh, wheels don't do well in sand, but, Right. mm-hmm. But, and, and so I can totally entertain myself till noon. He's usually back by noon. Yeah. But other than that, we, yeah. Do everything together. Mm-hmm. Um, we, uh, typically mm-hmm uh, we will have a rental car. So that we can go exploring. Mm-hmm. Um, if we're on an island, we'll drive around the island. We'll check out, , whatever sites and activities there are together. If we're in a, a city, we may be walking around. Uh, we may be taking public transit, but we'll mm-hmm. You know, whether it's going to, museums, restaurants, other kinds of sites, uh, or activities, uh. Pretty much do everything together, the, the, the scuba diving being the, uh, the one real exception to that. Well, and then also, don't be super disappointed if you'll be somewhere like we were in, uh, Provence. We were at the, the hill towns in Provence. These are really ancient cities, right? They're up, up in a really steep hill, hillside and the cities that were built hundreds, hundreds of years ago. Well, they don't have any ability to deal with a wheelchair or anything, and we recognize that, uh, you don't get mad about it. So, um, what we'll do is I'll just find a, usually there's someplace pleasant to wait, so I'll just, you know, find a cafe or, you know, so Cary will know where I am, you know, a cafe or something. Mm-hmm. I'll sit and then he'll just trek up the steep and hilly. Streaks to the, yeah. Typically we'll go as far as we can together. Mm-hmm. And then we'll hit, eventually we may hit an obstacle that's insurmountable. So at that point mm-hmm. Maybe Trish goes back and hangs out in a cafe. I might go up a little higher, , up some stairs to, to take some photos or see another view or whatever., But, uh, that's pretty rare actually, that. That there are places she just flat out cannot get to. Uh mm-hmm. So, and when it does again, you, you just, uh, be flexible and recognize that you're gonna have those kinds of limitations Sometimes. Yeah. Uh, I'm wondering how travel insurance works for you both. Can you speak to that experience? insurance, we, we have never used that. We don't buy it. Wow. Okay. Uh, maybe we should, but, we've never had our travel plans seriously disrupted other than one time when we, um, were flying to, to Germany and, had to make a connection in Atlanta. Uh, and hurricane. The hurricane, it was a hurricane. Um, closed the airport for a while and we got, uh, rerouted and, and missed the connecting flight and had this. So, and that kind of threw off our, uh, our travel plans because we were going from Germany to the Czech Republic to Hungary, and, you know, and, and, but it only threw us off right at the beginning and then we caught up. So other than that one instance, we've actually never had a need for, uh, for travel insurance. What about health insurance? So Yeah. Health is a different issue. Yeah. Because, uh, we're both on Medicare here in the US and so that covers really pretty much all of our, our medical needs. Mm-hmm. Now, out Medicare does not, uh, apply outside the US in most respects. We've. Have been fortunate enough not to have had any outside the US medical issues. But one thing that we do that's kind of a, a stop gap, uh, thing in case of a real disaster is that, um, through an organization I belong to as a diver. I have insurance that, uh, can apply to her as well, that will provide for, emergency airlift home in the event of an accident or illness, even if it's not diving related. So if she had a real serious issue, uh, and had to be transported home, we have that as a backstop. But it's called Dan. It's called Dan. Yeah. So, yeah. And it's a, a well-known divers organization. And, and so that's for, for people who mm-hmm. Uh, can qualify for that. That's a great thing. Now. In most countries though, healthcare is not nearly as expensive as it is in the us right? Right. And so, um, we frankly have just taken a of a chance that if we needed healthcare someplace outside the here, . It would not be that expensive. The one time we had to do that was on the island of Grand Turk where, uh, Trish injured her foot and we had to go to a medical clinic. Mm-hmm. And, they charged us nothing for the doctor's services and about $3 for the antibiotics. And that was, and that was it. minds must have been Yeah. So, you know, it's, um, and, and that's important because I think. For your, your other viewers to do a little checking before you leave. Find out what that country's, approach is to medical care. Yeah. Um, it all, everything we've discovered is, it always applies to visitors. They've never treated us differently from, you know, local resident. Mm-hmm. And, um, even if it's just filling a prescription at a pharmacy Yeah. If you're, if you have a prescription that appears legitimate, they'll fill it. I mean, they'll charge you something more than they would a local person, but it's still mm-hmm. Very doable. Yeah.. So I think our, our advice is not necessarily don't bother with health insurance. Mm-hmm. If you're more comfortable having it, by all means, and most private health insurance will apply Right. While you're traveling anyway. Right. Uh, Mm-hmm. be, um, some restrictions on it, but it, it generally does apply. Outside the country, um, Medicare is a different issue. And so if you're on Medicare, you, you just have to make a judgment call as to what kind of, you know, do you wanna purchase, uh, extra health insurance privately for your trip or right? you wanna do. as I say, in our case, maybe we've just been lucky we haven't had a problem to date. I will say that you have been lucky for sure. That's gr that's Yeah. Excellent for you. Is there anything that you pack of course, outside of your scooter, uh, in particular to make travel easier for you? Yeah, was thinking, I, when I wrote this question, um, I was reading your book and I think you mentioned that you brought some, um, grab bars oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. stick. Yeah. Yeah. So I thought that was a really great tip That's, Um, I, I didn't know they existed, they do. You can go, that's a great go to your local, um, if you've got every, every town, every city has some sort of store that sells crutches, you know, that has crutches and walkers and things like that. And almost always they have, portable, portable hand bars, um, things that, you know, will they have suction cups? Usually they just have a, you put'em against, uh, a tile wall and uh, Mm-hmm. pull a, you know, a thing that suctions it. Suctions it to. Yeah. And we carry those kinds of things with us routinely that, um, grab bars in case a hotel doesn't have 'em. Mm-hmm. You know, I just, other little devices that we have found to be useful based on our experience. And again, you have to call the hotel ahead of time and find out how is the bathroom situated. Does it have tile walls? Does it have tile walls? And this is really hard. You have to ask them, are the tiles square? And they need to be like four inches on, on, not little, not the little bitty, you know, one inch tiles because the suction cups won't work on grout. So you need a smooth. And, they do not work on a, a wall, a plaster walls or something plaster there. Work on Right. drywall, I mean drywall, and just pull it right off. So this again goes back to our earlier discussion about, uh, doing your research very precisely. You know, just not leaving to chance anything that you can think of to, to ask about. But, , you, you mentioned that, experience with the, uh, restaurant where they carried Trish up the stairs and, uh, fortunately there were only three or four steps there. We've had other experiences where we got to a restaurant and it was on the second floor. Didn't know there wasn't an elevator, an old building. This happened to us in two places in Dublin, two restaurants we tried to go to in the same evening. One was upstairs, one was downstairs, and neither had an elevator. Right. And um, you know, so. The scooter or wheelchair travel, you're gonna, uh, have some restrictions like that, that other people don't have to contend with. But even there, we found a solution. So looking at it as a companion, you know that wheelchair travel or scooter travel, in most respects doesn't have to be that different from anybody else's travel, uh, Mm-hmm. it's just, requires a little more preparation, a little more flexibility, and ultimately a willingness to accept. Sometimes things aren't gonna go the way you you want, and you're gonna have to go to plan B, you know? Right? Yeah. Yeah. So I'd like for you to tell me about the process of Mm-hmm. book, uh, on two legs and three wheels. Did you have travel journals that you were consulting? I loved reading about your travels. I'm about halfway through the book. Um, I loved reading all the details and really highlighting the locations while also mentioning experiences with the accessibility Right. Mm-hmm. No, I, I don't keep journals, but I take a lot of photographs. Those are my, uh. My reminders when I'm, uh, mm-hmm. When I'm writing, especially when I was writing this book, for each chapter. Yeah. I went back and looked at all the photos of the places mm-hmm. That we went in that location and I have a, a pretty good memory for details mm-hmm. To begin with. So once I had the prompt of seeing, say, a, a photo of a particular place, then uh, the details would generally come back to me. Uh mm-hmm. And so I, I know a number of people have commented on the, appreciating the details in the book. Mm-hmm. Uh, because it made the locations more vivid, more alive to them. And at least for me it was those photos that, that made that possible., I know some travelers keep detailed journals, whether they write anything or not, they just do it for their own, uh, future reference. I haven't done that, but as I say, the photos have have worked really well for me. Yeah, I kept a written journal when I was in college, when I was, in France and did a lot of traveling around Europe before I came home, and, um, I never looked at 'em again. No. Yeah. I looked at my pictures and that helped me remember, help me remember. Oh, yeah. But I, I don't think I ever looked at the journals again. that's so funny. I actually, I think you can see it in the, in the video, my jerk. My journal is right here. I used it, um, for, uh, the last episode Megan and I recorded was about The Bahamas, so I had to go back and read my journals to, to remind myself. So I think you have a better memory than I do. That's, and my, and the way that we do it, I don't do a journal either, but my husband takes a lot of travel videos, okay. we always have Well, that's, Yeah, we have those to refer oh, that's nice. So it's, Yeah. yeah, definitely. wanna dive into, this is always something, you know, Jenn and I love to hear about, and that is what travel destinations are still on your list. Like where do you still want to go? We've been talking about that. Where do we want to go next? Well, it, it's a little bit difficult to answer that because, , after our last, um, flying trip, Trish got a, a, a lot sicker, uh, developed, a blood infection as, as a result of a treatment she was receiving was very unexpected and that weakened her considerably. And so. Since then, we haven't been in a position to be away from home for extended periods of time but what we're now gonna experiment with is, uh, driving trips, which we've done Okay. past. Some of those are described in the book, uh, but I think we're gonna, try that more now. Um, we need to travel with more equipment now than we needed to in the past. Mm-hmm. Which makes some of which really can't go on an airplane. But uh, it could go on a cruise ship. So we're now exploring whether, uh. Cruise lines will let us bring some of this equipment aboard, which I hoping they will, in which case we may cruise, which we've done a couple of times, uh, and had pretty good experiences with that., Whether we do that or not, uh, there's lots of places that are within a day's drive. From here, , and California is a big state. There's a lot of places you can go that are, uh, far from home, but still, you know, within reasonable distances. Mm-hmm. Or, Arizona we, we've enjoyed going to the Grand Canyon in Arizona a number of times. We may go back there. Um, so yeah, there's, there's lots of options. You don't need to fly everywhere. Uh, and well, another thing that we made a point of is. Going to every national park that we could drive to. Yeah. And there's a lot that you can drive to. Yeah. Yeah. National parks or, or even big state parks in California. Yeah. Yeah. So we've had a great time and they're always helpful for, um, someone in a wheelchair Mm-hmm. mobility, you know, challenged. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, that's, that's awesome to hear. So, uh, before we say our goodbyes, where can people, uh, find out more about your book and buy the book? Well, the book is, uh, available from all the major booksellers. It's on Amazon, Barnes and Noble,, from the publisher directly Black Rose, and any bookstore can order it. Uh, these days, the, the, the process is so, uh, so simplified. Um, yeah. So the book are readily available. If people have, uh, questions about disabled travel beyond the stories that I tell in my book. Mm-hmm. There are other books out there that I, I would call more like how to do it books. You know, they're not stories, but they're more like just advice for disabled travelers. Mm-hmm., Some of them relate specifically to cruising. Some relate to visiting very specific places that are like a. National park or a particular city. Mm-hmm. Um, Mm-hmm. there's lots of resources also websites that, um, de that are dedicated to disabled travel. Oh yeah. There are, um, a few travel agencies. That specialize in assisting disabled travelers. We've had mixed experience with that, but yeah. Uh, but still for some people it's very useful. There's lots of information out there, but, uh, but if you're just looking for good stories that also mm-hmm. Tell you a lot based on our experiences, you know, I hope people will read my book and mm-hmm. If they want to contact me, they can do that, uh, through my website. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I'm happy to, uh, answer questions and, uh, suggest other resources for people. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Thank you so much for, for coming on our podcast and for, for talking to us. I, I, like I said, I'm, I'm halfway through the book, so I'll finish Yeah. but I think what I've taken away from it so far is a lot of. Hope that no matter what happens in the future, that I'll still a, be able to travel Yeah. way, shape Mm-hmm. And Oh yeah. that there's always a way to make it work If you have an attitude that let's figure this out and, uh, I I'm really grateful that, uh, that you reached No, you're welcome. And you know, if I may just, um. Toss in one, one more brief anecdote to, Yeah. to demonstrate what you were just saying about the, uh, attitude and, and willingness to try new things. Mm-hmm. I think that's the most important thing too. Mm-hmm. The, the best example of that would be the trip that we took to Alaska some years ago, and that's written up in the book where we started out just planning to take a cruise down the Alaskan coast, uh, from Anchorage down to Vancouver. And, then, found that the cruise line offered a land component to the, uh, trip as well, where we were able to go by train from Anchorage to Denali National Park and then onto Fairbanks, which is, uh, right in the middle of the state. That's where the rail line ends there. We transferred to a bus and rode for two days on a dirt highway, um, over the Brooks Range, a pretty big mountain range, uh, on a road that had been put in when the Alaska pipeline was being constructed. So that road took us all the way to the Arctic Ocean at Prudhoe Bay to the charmingly named town of Dead Horse. Uh, with a, with an overnight stop along the way in an equally charming town called Cold Foot. Um. Uh, but when we got to the Arctic Ocean, um, the, it was great. It was, uh, even there, Trish could get around fairly easily, except maybe going out onto the beach there at the ocean. And they were so impressed with her, uh, getting there and her tenacity in doing all this. Yeah, that the hotel, we stayed at, hotel, I use that term euphemistically. Yeah. Um. Uh, the accommodations we stated gave her a certificate reading first scooter to the Arctic Ocean, because they'd never seen one before. They'd never seen ones. So I just used the, all, all the oil workers and the oil workers were like. Totally checking it out. Oh, yeah. They were fascinated with it. But I, I use that kind of as a final, uh, explanation or, or, example of just how far you can go if you're willing to try, if you're flexible. Mm-hmm. Uh, and are flexible enough to deal with all those. to, You know, impediments that you're likely to run into along the way, but that you have to believe can be solved. So I think that I close with that Great. Thank you. That is a you. uh, to end the episode. So, as always for us at the Travel Mug Podcast, our listeners can find us on our website travel mug podcast.com, where we'll have a link to, um, to the book as well. Um, you can find us also on social media, Instagram, YouTube, and Okay, at Travel Mug Podcast. Uh, and. Yeah. Thank you so much for coming on Well, thank you.
