eCom Capital Podcast
The Ecom Capital Podcast is the blueprint for eCommerce growth—one conversation at a time.
Hosted by Sasha Karabut, founder of Ecom Capital (8-figure company), the show uncovers how top founders and operators build, scale, and win in eCommerce.
No fluff. No theory. Just what’s working now.
New episodes every week.
eCom Capital Podcast
Why Success Is the Most Dangerous Thing for a Founder Playing it Safe
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In this exclusive workshop, Sasha and Hamen sit down with Jamie - a 25-year interior designer who turned her creative eye into a luxury oversized towel brand called The Bear Hug, went from three consecutive $10K months to a $30K month, and sold out three times in four months.
We break down the real reason founders hesitate on stock decisions, why good performance makes you lazy, the two-tool framework for making faster business decisions, and how knowing your numbers removes emotion from the equation entirely.
If you're new to this channel, my name is Sasha Karabut. I went from $137,000 in debt to building two 8-figure eCommerce brands. Through my company Ecom Capital, I've generated over $75 million in client revenue and helped 1000+ brands scale their businesses profitably.
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro: From Interior Designer to Luxury Towel Brand
1:00 - Jamie's Story: 25 Years in Design, Then Enough Was Enough
3:00 - Why Fitness Was the Wrong Niche (And Homewares Was Right)
5:00 - Using Amazon US Bestsellers to Find the Product
7:00 - How Her Design Background Spotted the Opportunity Others Missed
9:00 - The Self-Doubt That Never Goes Away (Even After Selling Out)
11:00 - Creating a System to Navigate Fear in Business
13:00 - Three $10K Months Then a Jump to $30K
15:00 - The Unexpected Part: Customers Emotionally Impacted by a Towel
18:00 - One Bad Review Breaking Her After 200 Five Stars
20:00 - How to Process Bad Reviews Without Changing Everything
22:00 - Why Being on Pre-Order Three Times in Four Months Is a Decision Problem
25:00 - The ROAS and Inventory Equation (And Why It Predicts Stockouts)
28:00 - Playing Out the Worst Case Scenario (Hamen's Two-Tool Framework)
31:00 - The Invoice Sitting Unpaid for Days (And What It's Actually Costing)
34:00 - Why Good Performance Makes Founders Fat and Lazy
37:00 - The Feast and Famine Cycle (And the Conditional Behavior Fix)
40:00 - Two Ads Running for Months: Why This Is a Warning Sign
43:00 - 15 New Creatives Ready to Go: The Right Move
45:00 - The Rolling 13-Week Cash Flow Sheet Explained
48:00 - Money Mondays: The Weekly Habit That Removes Fear From Decisions
50:00 - Larger Orders vs Frequent Orders: The Colorway Data Problem
53:00 - The $240K Fishing Shirt Mistake (And What It Teaches About SKU Weighting)
56:00 - Negotiating Supplier Payment Terms to Protect Cash Flow
59:00 - Paying Yourself a Bonus for Making Fast Decisions
1:00:00 - Final Thoughts: Push Buttons, Jamie
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Go through some of the last 90 days in terms of what were some of the standout moments.
SPEAKER_02Just as a general, I think, the sort of three, 10k months, and then sort of jumped to 30k in the last month.
SPEAKER_01We've got Jamie here from the Bear Hug, and we're going to be doing a bit of a background story of where she was before she started her business, and then a snapshot into the last 90 days in terms of some of the highlights that she's experienced.
SPEAKER_02Being an interior designer for the past 25 years, I was sick of working for somebody else for a really measly weekly wage, and I wanted to take control of something just for me. My brand is the Bear Hug, so it's the largest luxury towel on the market.
SPEAKER_01Once you identified the idea, you were like, oh, this is it, let's go.
SPEAKER_02The doubt I fit in myself was out of control. I've sold out three times, but I still go, oh my god, no one's gonna want to listen to me.
SPEAKER_01From your perspective, what helped the most to start overcoming that fear of yourself? Alright, everyone, welcome on back. Uh, we've got Jamie here from the Bear Hug, and we're going to be doing a bit of a background story of where she was before she started her business, and then a snapshot into the last 90 days in terms of some of the highlights that she's experienced, as well as then uh a business planning kind of strategy session into the future as far as what the key things are that she can focus on to help her to continue growing her incredible town business. Jamie, give us a quick uh kind of who you are and what you sell to begin with, and then we'll wind back to what was going on in your situation before you launched the business. Amazing. Very cool. I love that you can say that in one clean sentence. It's fantastic. Tell me, tell me about um what prompted you to start the business, what was going on in your situation, what how did you kind of like come about this idea of starting a towel company? Um, was that something you always had in mind? Or yeah, run me through that a little bit.
SPEAKER_02I've been an interior designer for the past 25 years, so very much in that creative field. Um, I was sick of working for somebody else for a really, you know, measly weekly wage, and I wanted to take control of something just for me. So I thought, um, e-commerce, maybe I could give that a go. Um it's you know, why not? Um I've seen a lot of really good success stories for it, and I'm quite driven. So I thought if yeah, anyone can do it. And I've just turned 50, so it was now or never. And I know I don't look like David. 30, stop it, guys.
SPEAKER_00Um I was gonna say you're 30, but stop it, dude.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I just I just needed a change. And then um, no, I definitely did not have a towel brand in mind. I actually was thinking the fitness niche for some reason because I don't exercise. Um husband rightly pointed out that that wasn't probably the niche for me. So I um thought maybe homewares.
SPEAKER_00Like go opposite, go opposite to that.
SPEAKER_02All right, opposite, relax.
SPEAKER_01How did um how did like was there anything particular that happened in and around, like, was it the turning 50 that was like a bit of a moment where you were like, you know what, like something has to change around here? Like, was there any moments or events that you kind of experienced that were the the catalyst for you to go, you know what, time to do something different?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think I uh to be honest, I've because I've been doing it for so long and it's the same thing sort of day in in, day out. And although it's rewarding and the clients are amazing, it just got stale and boring, and I was just over it. And I just went, why am I doing this for someone else when there's a real opportunity out there? So many opportunities out there that if you know you don't give it a go, you're never gonna know. And I thought, now or never, I just yeah. It wasn't really a specific moment, it was a full, you know, like let's just do this. Let's and I have a very, very, very supportive husband that was like, babe, you can do this, let's go.
SPEAKER_01Although a spiritual experience, it sounds like that's fantastic. I like that. Um, okay, cool. And you so you said you had a supportive husband who was kind of like helping you being like, let's go, let's do this thing. Like, you can do it. That's incredible. I find that very helpful as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he's currently building hospitals in Indonesia, um, and he's about to start his own uh new business. So yeah, he's he's a lot smarter than me. I'm the creative one, but um, we make a good team.
SPEAKER_01That's sensational. And um, and how was it when you were kind of like initially uh starting? So you said like kind of looking at fitness. It sounds like you didn't know exactly like what it was that you wanted to sell to begin with, um, but you kind of came in with maybe some ideas. Is that about right?
SPEAKER_02I actually came in with no ideas, absolutely none.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02Um I remember I was on one of the early calls and was someone, I can't remember who it was, but they said, you know, have a look on Amazon US sellers, see if there's any, you know. Oh, is it okay, thanks. Um it's a really it's just a really good way to, and that was exactly how I did it. Um and then yeah, I just went into the sort of areas that I had an interest in and then yeah, I went um with Ash, who Ashley, who just all the way through was like, Yes, that's so good. You've got this girl, like he's the biggest leader on the planet. Um and then yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And um, how did you like when you when when you landed on the towel idea? Like, was that like uh this is it? I'm certain, or was it like, oh, I'm not too sure? Is this like, do people want this stuff? Like, how is that process of kind of like, you know what I mean? Because committing to the product idea, I think, is quite um scary because it's like, is it the right one? Is it gonna sell? Am I gonna be able to sell it? Like, do people want this stuff? All of those kinds of things usually come up. So was it was it challenging for you going through that process of like selecting and committing on the tower?
SPEAKER_02It I think because I literally did that the Amazon US bestsellers. And then when I went into homewares, I was looking at things that maybe perhaps I would take a sort of second glance at that as a designer I could make more aesthetically pleasing than what I was looking at on Amazon. So I think for me, the towel, the the oversized towel, because they had three people holding it, straight away. I went, oh, that's cool. Like I'd have one at like that's a big ass towel, but it was really ugly. And I went, Well, that is something, you know, I can glitter that turd. It's gonna like look amazing. And it was something my creative side could be what I would say, yes, that's what I was gonna say.
SPEAKER_00Your asset was actually the fact that because of the background you have, you've seen this and like, I'll make it better. And I think you relied if you remember. I actually this the Amazon best sales is the one of the things I always say, look at the best sales, look at the categories, and just pick the one subcategory and then look at that, but it's based on affinity, and then we look at the sales later with Jungle Scout. But the thing that I was saying is you use your affinity, your background, you to actually identify an opportunity, which I think is very powerful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it made the decision a lot easier because I knew in my gut straight away that yeah, I can make that product better. But that was that was good.
SPEAKER_01It's almost like the the strength um that you had developed in almost in your career, then you just like use that and deploy that into like a particular product category that you're like, I can influence this to be better and I can maybe see something that other people don't see because they don't have my background and skill set.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. There's like an authority you sort of have with how many, you know, background that you've done for that long. So I knew as soon as I put the fitness out of the way, I knew that, yeah, the homeware's niche is absolutely something that I can have authority in and build that, you know, build that.
SPEAKER_01Was it um was it something like like when you were going through that process? Because I find that um a lot of the time people they have all of this expertise, but then um it's it's almost like they don't know they have it, if you get what I'm saying. It's like it's like this like you know, dormant type thing that they're like they've used somewhere else, and then they have this idea like, you know what, I really could use this, but then when it comes down to doing it, it's like, oh, maybe I'm not really that good, or maybe I really don't even know what so was there a bit of that that you had, or like once you identified the idea, you were like, oh, this is it, let's go.
SPEAKER_02Once I'd identify the idea, yes, but the doubt I had in myself was out of control, and I still have it, and I'm you know, I'm I've sold out three times, but I still go, oh, I still go to do content and be sort of my husband will stop me, you know, babe. You are like, you know what you're talking about, just how you know, like you've done this for so many years, and I I do forget that, and I do go in on myself and go, oh my god, no one's gonna want to listen to me.
SPEAKER_00Like, yes, and I remember as well, like yes, yes, and I remember we had a call about I think a month, two months ago, something like that. And and we were like talking about essentially like working together, like all of that. And I remember we talked about everything. So, what are the outcome, what are the expectations? And in the end, it was like, well, you know, it's what it was very clear, but you're like, I'm not sure, I'm not, I'm like, I'm I'm kind of like hesitating. And I think that if that that part specifically, it's technically probably coming from previous things that you've seen where this helped you. So essentially looking at those two things and kind of backing out of it or protecting yourself from a risk particularly. But in business, it's opposite. We take the risk because that's the only thing that matters. Your ROI is linked to risk most of the time, not necessarily linked to other things. I would say calculated risk, but what I've seen here is just to kind of coach you around that, because I've seen that this is something you face many times, you need to create a system, and we talked about it a little bit before the podcast, to actually navigate this challenge if you're not sure about it. Because you will never gonna be sure. Like I'll promise you, you wake up, you're not, you're not gonna confirm. Even if I was to think we have all the sales in the world, you're still gonna have that a little bit of doubt for a new product, new idea, everything you can think of, new creative. So you need to create a system that would actually solve this. Because again, I'm assuming it's something that served you in the past, but it might not serve you in the business. That's my view on it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I'm worried I I can break the business. It's there to be amazing. Like I can see it, I can then I just I know it's there, but I'm worried that I'm gonna be the one that breaks it. And I've got to get out of it.
SPEAKER_00But I'm not I'm not gonna allow you to do that. Like, I would it's not gonna happen. Like, you're like, hey, it's not gonna happen. Not on a watch.
SPEAKER_01Okay, but also what you're saying there, Jamie, is very accurate. Like it's like um your business is like, and I've been saying this a lot recently, where it's it's it's just an inanimate object. It doesn't have any disposition or emotion towards like you, it doesn't like um harbor any like resentment when you don't do any work, it and you don't give it the resources or the creatives, it just sits there and it goes, well, now I am unable to grow. And that's all it is. It it it's it's it's just it's this like constant kind of machine that just demands resources from you, and resources meaning like ad spend, um, content and stock, probably the main things that it needs. And if it has those things in enough of an order and quality, it'll just continue doing its thing. You know what I mean? But it's like it's the founder in here and here that goes, oh my god, oh my god, you know what I mean? That freak out mode that constantly kind of like gets it in your head, whether it's like I'm not making sales or I'm making so many sales, and is it gonna stop? Do they like the product? Maybe it's not gonna come, maybe the quality is not good enough. It's like at either end of those things, you're gonna have something that's like terrifying you about like this is it, and it's gonna blow up tomorrow. I'm not gonna make any more sales, or I'm making way too many sales, and all of a sudden everyone's going to, I don't know, spit the dummy and say that they're not gonna wait or the the quality's bad. Something's gonna go wrong. You know, it's like damned if you do, damned if you don't. So I think that system that Hammond is saying is just like accepting the fact that like that is the case and then being able to continuously just like deliver the things that your business needs. Um, that's that that's I think the game more than anything else.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely. I had um I've got nearly 200 five-star reviews, and some of the reviews are just insane. Like, I still get blown away. I had one bad one yesterday, and I just it broke me. I was like, Oh, I'm done, it's over.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it happened to me, by the way, that's like exactly the same thing. Like, I would like just so that you're aware, I was like just thinking, well, I have these like good things and one bad thing, and I'm like, should I change everything, right? And and and and when this happens, the first thing, if you remember, I uh we talked about this before, but the first thing I would think about is like let's play it out. And I think Alex Ramosy does this pretty well in terms of just like looking at the future and kind of looking at that. Is this that if if we if we have this many times, like bad reviews, well, what does this mean, right, for you if you have that like consistently every day? And then let's say it's a bad review, it means there's a bad product, right? But in in in your case here, we have a lot of good, a little bit of bad. Is that normal? Yes. So if we continue having good hundred reviews and then one bad review, is that normal? Yes, right? So why would you then feel bad today about it? Well, it's just normal.
SPEAKER_02You're right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02My unwest enemy.
SPEAKER_01Let's let's continue. So you slept through the towels, um, overcame a lot of doubt in terms of just like, is my expertise valid? Uh, do people want to listen to me? Um, should I talk about my background? All those types of things. Um, what was what was, I guess, um, was there a particular process? Because the thing that I like about you, Jamie, is that like from the outside, and I know this is definitely not the same internally, but from the outside, it seems like what you're able to do is go, okay, uh, I feel like I'm overwhelmed, and I feel like I kind of am just like, ugh shit, I don't know what to do. And then like our team will either like give you some advice or do this, do this, and you will be able to seemingly, seemingly, um, almost like forego the uh fear and emotion and just like do it in like a a bit of a dorky, kind of scared way, and it and it still works, you know what I mean? But a lot of people I find that they um uh get to that point and it's like okay, so you need to do this as an example, and then they're just like, yeah, I know I need to, and they can't bring themselves to do it, and that's actually what stops people from getting it. So, from your perspective, like, was there anything that you like did or anything that was most helpful to just be like, I'm just gonna have to just do the content, I'm just gonna have to take the risk. Like, what helped the most to start overcoming that fear from yourself? I'm curious because like you went from going like, okay, so I'm never going to create content, no one wants to listen to or hear this person from camera, right? It's like that was your that was your thought, and then like I would say like less than a few weeks later, you did the thing, you got the content, and then it's been like you're one of your best performing pieces of content is probably made your business tens of thousands of dollars. So, like, what was there some like validation in that, or like what you do and what you say in these videos turns into that? Because the reason I want to ask this is because there's there's so many people that I believe that have similar, not in the sense of like creating content, but they have stuff that in their own mind is like it's nothing. Uh no one wants to listen to me, no one even like I'm not that good. And then it's like on the other side, it's like people are like, please let me pay you. And I just I I love all of the stuff you're putting out. Do you understand what I mean?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I think for me, um another bit of advice that I got, and I actually think it was Naira that said it, was when you're doing the content, talk to them like it's your friend, like you're talking to a friend on the other side of the camera. So I think for me that brought out a bit of that authentic realness, which seems to resonate with my specific sort of I think my bias are sort of me. They're like my husband, they're you know, they're sort of that. So I think, yeah, not who's doing the done the not perfect, not overanalysing, not being so critical, and just being my authentic self is just stuff. It's the only way I think founder-led content can really work when you you let your boundaries go and you you just sort of be yourself. And you can see it when you're watching, like I can see it when I'm watching other founder-led videos now, where two months ago I would have been like, what are you talking about? Now I can look at them and I can go, yeah, that's not actually you.
SPEAKER_01I love that you said that as well, because um, like what like what you just said there is what happens in terms of um, say, for example, before you started um the business to begin with, like you could have, as an example, um, gone and looked at different like you know, Amazon top selling products, and you would have been like, huh, interesting. And so what? Um, in the same way as now like once you know what to look for, then you go, that's a winning product or that's an opportunity. In the same way as once you learn the content, then you go, before you could have looked at different content and been like, huh, I don't know. But then after you learn what good looks like, you go, ah, that I see, you know what I mean? And and that is one of the most rewarding things that I look at in founders and everyone in the team, because it's like um I remember with Ashley years ago when she first joined here, and I was like, Ashley, there's this special thing that happens um when you start building uh a business, and it's like it's almost like once you see an opportunity to make money with a product that you didn't previously know existed, it's like you're like, oh my god, and then and there's another one, and then it's like the whole entire world opens up with opportunity, you know what I mean? And it's like it's really, really, really special. So I'm glad that you've had that and wished witnessed that across like the content side, obviously the product side as well. Because I feel like that moment there, it it continues to happen across multiple different areas of your business, you know, the product, the content, the marketing, the finances, all these things will continue getting unlocked. And the more that you continue seeing in your business, the more opportunity you have to continue growing it. So it's a it's a very, very exciting thing. And I think that growth mindset that you have as well, in terms of uh not necessarily being like, well, I can't do it, or there's no point in me. Like it, like you're very like growth-oriented, you know what I mean? Despite being career-driven for a long period of your time, you're still like, let's find a way to learn. Let's just, I don't know, bump around and figure it out, which I think is a precursor to you can never stop learning.
SPEAKER_02Never stop learning. And I think, yeah, that's one of the things about e-commerce. Like, I literally think I'm learning every single day something new, sort of. Yeah, it's it's just constant.
SPEAKER_01It's and it's talk me through some of the um, I guess it's like uh you went through the product stage and uh obviously working with AIS as far as like some of the you know launch, etc. Go through some of the, I guess like last 90 days in terms of what were some of the maybe standout moments, what were some of the things that you were like shocked by in terms of like, whoa, that's interesting. I wasn't expecting that. Were there a few standout moments that you know you can perhaps like recall specifically?
SPEAKER_02Just as a general, I think the sort of three 10K months, and then I sort of jumped to 30k in the last month. Um yeah, if you had said to me six months ago that I would be making like a 30k month selling oversized bath towels, I would have you know thought you were cray cray. Um so for me, like that's an amazing achievement, but it's not it's it's gonna sound really stupid, but it's a hundred percent true. It's the feedback I'm getting from, it's the emails I'm getting, it's the reviews I'm getting, it's the I'm actually making a difference in people's days where it never ever came into this thinking that's what I was going to do with that towel. I get it for skincare or products, you know, that help aches, or a towel is a goddamn towel. It drives you off, you're done, you walk like it's so for me, I'm I'm very surprised at the impact it's having on people's actions. all day.
SPEAKER_01So that that for me is makes me want to that's so interesting because like you I guess when you started you would have had like the the perceived almost like, oh this is why I want to start the business to you know make more money or you know sell cool products etc and then like as you go through it you realize like the actual um you know making an impact on people receiving that kind of like feedback from them as far as like messages etc and how much more um rewarding that is than you know what I mean chasing like 30k 40k 50k you like you get those messages it lights you up you're like I did that you know what I mean it's like it's very very very impactful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah that's fantastic definitely um not a part of the journey that I thought would I mean I'm definitely a people person I like to not please people but I like you know I I like people um so but yeah for me I just it it has just been like especially in the last month it's yeah it's such a huge overwhelming feeling some of the messages and emails that I get that's why when I get one bad one I'm like but I would say I would say give yourself like some credits like you did an amazing job just that you're like just looking at a little bit your journey because it feels like when you're looking at it like hey just like this product just they're they're happy because they have it you actually put in the time to pick the product make sure you have a good product for them all of that effort in terms of identification and time spent that's actually does have value for people and you put in your own like I would say back end expertise to make this better.
SPEAKER_00So I think that it's not a surprise to me essentially and I think you're underestimating the time and effort you put in which is all the work you did and I think actually did more risk in the past in terms of spending the time doing all of that to get to this point than anything. So I would say I'm not surprised and I think that actually you did the right thing just building this amazing product but give yourself some credit. It's normal.
SPEAKER_01I think it's um it's interesting Jamie it it takes it takes some time to like I was actually reflecting on it uh I think it was like this week this week or last week um in terms of that kind of like weird almost just like insecurity that a lot of like founders and entrepreneurs have around like um them and their own abilities you know I mean it's like I'm not really I'm not really that good like geez like is this is this people are going to figure me out any day now that I have no idea what I'm doing. But it's like um as that happens like year after year after year after year like it continues for a long time and I think it was interesting because like just this week I think I had this moment where I was like you've been in this for like a little while now like almost a decade and um you've got a lot of really good people around you and the common denominator is you that either brought them in, keep them in, you know, you share the vision you know what I mean problem solve be able to provide context decision making I'm like you're pretty you number one you're pretty weird that's cool. And then number two you must be pretty dang good at this thing. You know what I mean? It was kind of like this weird interesting moment that I think over time you just develop more and more and more kind of like validation of the fact of like the e the the the weird and interesting stuff that you do that's only you and the things that people continue to validate about you they just they start to give you a a new sense of almost just like confidence in yourself. It is difficult to do similar to what Hammer mentioned like give yourself some credit it's like yeah okay for you know in the in the earlier days I think it's quite challenging to do but as you um get more and more and more of it as the business gets bigger I think um you'll have more reasons to kind of like look at yourself and be like you know what like I'm doing pretty damn well you know uh which is which is really exciting yeah were there any other like shocking or interesting things that happened during like the last um 90 days maybe that you you didn't expect obviously you said revenue wise was pretty interesting and you're like wow that I didn't expect to have that the impact that you were making um on your customers is is a is a very exciting and fulfilling thing. Anything that you found like difficult particularly or more challenging than you expected?
SPEAKER_02Yeah definitely the supplier um side of thing I I kind of felt um at a few stages that I was actually letting my customers down and it was going to affect my brand that I didn't have it in stock and it wasn't ready to go and I didn't have the right packaging and you know but then again I was like it's okay it's done it's not perfect. And you know it's just a process of learning but definitely having to be on pre-order three times in four months is I'm really disappointed in myself for letting that happen and I know that's the side of things that I really need to step up my game and and learn and put all of my effort into at the moment.
SPEAKER_00I have a question for you actually would you say that the pre-order because you mentioned like you're disappointed because there's like you you kind of did something I'm assuming right to be disappointed. Uh the question here is is it because you expected that you're gonna do less and you did more and then you end up with essentially this problem or is it because of a supplier speed that you didn't really pick the right supplier or would you say it's kind of the bottleneck I'm just curious.
SPEAKER_02It's 5050 um suppliers took a month longer than what they should have but I would have not known that but I should have anticipated that and sort of been ready for it to happen and if it did then it didn't matter because I was all over and that was a month in advance. And yeah they sold I think it just freaking kept selling I don't know what is wrong with people and they like big towels.
SPEAKER_00But I'm thinking then it's like would you say that you were kind of deficient and like you just you like the risk level so you didn't really take enough risk you feel like that's what the part that we're kind of missing? I'm just curious.
SPEAKER_02Yeah absolutely um I didn't back myself or the brand that it was going to sell out three times.
SPEAKER_00Um I didn't pull the plug and go yeah we'll do it and were you were you were you were you were you getting like were you spending on an ads like with like just I'm I'm thinking right so we have like a machine where we can kind of predict a little bit something. So was it the ROAS was so good to IAS maybe but was it was that the case the ROAS was really good.
SPEAKER_02We didn't I think the first pre-order we didn't scale the ads because we were worried about getting all that new um sort of customers coming in and being like well you've got nothing for sale I'm gonna bounce and then sort of wasting that ad spend so I think that was a really good move on AS's part doing that because I would have gone no like just throw the money in and let's just see how it goes.
SPEAKER_00But he was really sort of measured and controlled which I absolutely love because I'm the opposite yes yes actually I I just to be clear like I has actually when I have a call with him I feel calmer I don't know why it just uses me like feeling he's amazing he's amazing I was like is it like a med like is he sending me something I don't know what's happening. I like every time I'm like I feel calmer I don't know how he does this but anyway coming back to the yes the question so you mentioned it was a risk situation that you feel like we probably could have predicted this better correct so would would you say that to face this in the future the goal would be then to measure the ROAS and know what is our ROAS and then predict how much we should buy an inventory would would that be the solution I'm just curious what would you think about as a solution yes a hundred percent what you just said with the ROAS I think why why why why would you then do it? Like what why wouldn't we then just do it today? I'm just curious like what what's the bottleneck if we know the problem and you know the solution I'm actually about to put in an order this morning so you'll be very proud of me. It's okay it's like I'm about to do it I'm about to do this right now I'm about to order um another thousand units. Okay so so so so you would say that the problem just to look at that 50% you would say and I'll let Saga like go over things I'm just kind of trying to see the the gaps. So um you would say then that the inventory with the 50% you solve that. So we have another 50% that we need to solve is that correct so the first part would be predicting which you right now know exactly your ROAS. So if you want to make 50k a month you need to spend 1000. So we we're not gonna get more than that unless we spend more so unless you convince AIS to spend more you're like doing something we probably would not have this problem again would you say that just curious you're absolutely right actually now that I'm I think about it um I think I need to have that pressure on me doing the ad spend doing it more so I'm not sure if yes because I feel like you're you you feel like you're not in control but you're in control. Just because you're like I'm not in control. I don't know like like this thing would just slip and just I don't know like I like I'm gonna get the pre-order I'm gonna mess no just you know how much you're spending right and then we're not gonna get more than that you you didn't get more than that last 30 days. So I don't think it's gonna be like a jump to a hundred K. Uh it's gonna be more predictable controlled outcome. So the 50% that we can solve it's kind of solved right you just need to prepare and buy because we know we're gonna sell yes yeah that's the that's the confidence the main jump okay let's play out the scenario where it's terrible just curious right let's say you buy the inventory it didn't sell we're unhappy right but yeah wouldn't it just mean that we're gonna sell it on a longer horizon right just a little bit more would you say that we're just gonna sell this slower yeah absolutely so so so your worst case scenario is still yes so your worst case scenario is just still selling you're just selling a little bit slower.
SPEAKER_01It's actually probably you're gonna say if I was to talk to that Jamie it's gonna be like hey I'm not deceiving my customers you're very wise aren't you I think the the the the yeah the the stock specific especially the um the thing that you want to I guess just like from a stock perspective Jamie and um more so just like the decision making thing because because I think there was a moment that we had uh on one of the coaching calls together where it was like um okay so this is my ROAS and um this is my sales and I'm kind of scared to place this order and I was like you should definitely place the order and you're like okay I'm gonna do it. Yeah it's like I'm like but that kind of like it's like when it gets to that point when you're asking that question it's probably already I don't know two weeks overdue four weeks overdue you know and so like the um the the goal with especially like this stock or the decision making process is kind of like how do I um create either a a process or a series of rules or like a checklist of sorts that if this happens then I do this behavior. Right because like say for example what's happening it's like I've been um out of stock and on pre-sale um three times in the last um four months or whatever it is right and I'm like so that tells me one of two things either like um two things either the supplier is just like hardcore like bait and switching you and telling you like one month and then it turns into four months um and then it turns into this massive massive thing every time or alternatively um on the founder side we're just making decisions too slowly you know what I mean and and and and so I think it's like we we can't control the supplier and what they do. Well we can by choosing the supplier and we can you know change the supplier so it's like it only benefits us to be like okay so I'm making decisions too slowly right this is actually the issue that I need to solve for um and the biggest thing that's going to help me is like I I share this quite often because one of the most painful things in my career that I had to kind of like workshop through for a long period of time was like this um constant like feast and famine cycle in any and all businesses that I would ever start, right? Where I would like go on this run for like two months or three months, maybe six months and make a bunch of money and then my bank account would look really good and then I'd be like whatever I'd not track anything. I would not like everything would just go completely awry and then all of a sudden it would just come crashing down. And then I would get into full blown desperation mode and then I would start to from the bottom when I'm about to fail to pay rent next week be like I need to make a bunch of money. And then I would go back up again on this huge big loop for another six months and this cycle would just repeat and repeat. And I swear I was stuck in that loop and they would get a little bit longer meaning it would go like six months to then nine months and then I'd drop down for like three months and be like sell everything oh my God panic mode and then go back up again. And this was like the the the first probably two or three years of my career was just constantly like that. And so the thing that I had to do was like okay so um like what are the uh learnings or lessons that happen that lead me to be at the bottom okay so your bank account gets to this level and you don't do anything then it gets to this level and you don't do anything. Then it gets to this level and you still don't do anything. And then it gets to critically low below negative in the absolute minus and then you get into action. And so it's like if this happens then I'm going to start doing this stop spending this start moving into action. Right? And so it's like this kind of like conditional behaviors that you create similar for yourself where it's like if I'm selling at this rate for two or more weeks and my stock falls below X level, I just order you know I mean it's like I'm not like I said your business is just going to keep consuming and consuming. I'm just this like um person that makes decisions based on the data and goes all right looks like it's that time we've got enough cash in the account boom pay and and remove all of the thinking and the emotion and all of the stuff away from the decision and just go, cool, okay, one week, two week three weeks stock levels are there order is placed. And almost just like it happens without the the consideration much in the same way as what you have done in terms of so many of your amazing decisions that have been empowering and helped your business to grow in terms of the content fantastic the product like you know getting that thing live to begin with a lot of these things have been like close enough let's get it out. You know what I mean? And so a lot of your front end skill sets on the marketing side on the product side very very very good and they're really kind of like um representative of this kind of skill set of being like if this happens just do that and get it out. So I think the two areas that I've seen where we need to take a little bit more decisions that are proactive is when we had the uh call last week or the week before and I hopped in the out account and I was like there's two ads here. What is going on? You know what I mean? So that in terms of like because all that happens is um the performance gradually starts to decline gradually starts to decline further and further and further and then what happens is at the bottom you go oh my God I've got to create new ads. But it's like no no you knew that six weeks ago like we needed to create new ads like in May and they've just gradually burnt out and so there's these kinds of like fears that are in there around like whether it's doing the hard thing on the creative side or doing the hard thing on the stock side I think those are the two kind of like bottlenecks for you at the moment that are right now they're masked up by your good business performance. You know what I mean? Because you you've got you know good sales, good consistency, good row at what happens is it makes you less uh I guess like driven to fix those problems because they're problems but they're not like it's like yeah it's an issue but it's not too bad. You know what I mean? And the the challenging thing about when you have like out of the gate success is it makes you fat and lazy. It just does you know you don't have to fight too hard um think you got 200 five star reviews despite being on pre-order despite you know sometimes messing up the stock rotation and so like you're like well I really need to get this stock sorted but the ROAS tells me I don't and the customer feedback that tells me I don't as well you know what I mean and so you've got all this epic validation being like great money great feedback yeah I need to fix the stock well do you really like what you know what I mean and so this is where like that discipline that you need to build in as an entrepreneur in this particular level in terms of the content that you create and the decisions that you make around stock like there are so many people that have uh products uh far superior quality to what you have that if they had the uh delay that you have then the customers would flip and they would just blow up and then be negative reviews everywhere or there are also people on the content side you know that have one or two pieces of content that crush and they don't like some of your ads have been running for months now and they're still crushing. And it's like people would kill for that on the content side and you've got it like one month, two months three months still running still performing and it's like they're having to be out there every single week producing and pushing live ads and so it's like your strengths that you have in terms of these areas that are oh I I'd never say naturally come to you as like you know it was easy because it's not easy. This is like what you've spent your life creating and crafting it's just what the market has perceived as valuable. It's like if you don't um identify them as like still fragile and you don't build on them, they'll be taken away from you at some point. You know what I mean? And so like the customer feedback or for example the content um based on the supply chain and based on the content these areas I think um like I said because they're going well and because you've got great feedback and because you've got great role as it's easy to just assume that they're always going to do well. You know and the Hammond and I have laughed many times in a very weird um conversation about all of the damaging bad horrible wipeout things that have happened to us where the exact same thing goes on where it goes wow performance is fantastic I really should shoot more short shoot more content um get more product fix supply chain you know what I like this performance kind of makes me CBF let's just continue spending and then in three months or four months when you blow things up you're like what an idiot wow I can't believe I was that stupid you know and so I think that like the biggest benefit that you get or the biggest thing that I guess people join communities like this for is this experience because like I I said I said it on a call recently where I was like what is the point of you guys um being around people like us that have made the most painful disgusting horrible errors and fuck ups if you don't go oh shit uh I better not do that yeah you know what I mean like so many people they they they hear the things that Haven and I say and they're like yeah yeah but but I'm a little bit different you know what I mean like it's me and and my business is a little bit different to you guys like that was a couple of years ago this is 2026 I'm like oh and then like six months later they're like wiping out and they're like please help you know and so I I think these areas in terms of um both of those components they are a a decision that needs to get made faster right um and the interesting thing that I also find about yourself with this situation is what happens is when you don't make these decisions in terms of ordering the stock you know that you need to order the stock we can put the plan in place put the sheet in place put the forecast in place that's not going to help you to push the button.
SPEAKER_02The invoice sitting in my yeah I have it sitting there and I I all I need to do is pay the 50% deposit and and and I bet you that invoice has been there for several days.
SPEAKER_01You know what I mean it's like it's like so it's like it's not going to um the help you to shortcut the moment where you go I need to order press button because the what happens is what happens is so as your business grows there's only a certain amount of kind of really high quality decisions that you can make uh day to day week to week okay and so if you think about it for a moment you go okay so in your brain there is a big part of your brain because it's a big important part of your business that is kind of consumed by this idea of like oh I really need to create that damn content. Jesus what kind of content should I create I need to have that done by Thursday next week so I should and you'll think and think and think and think about that for the next four or five days. At the same time on the other side you see the invoice and you've got the invoice and you're thinking and you're thinking and you're looking and you're checking maybe you jump online look through your your bank balances okay that yeah okay I'll pay I'll pay someone and so these things they encumber your ability to think clearly about your business and subtly consciously unconsciously they weigh you down and they prevent growth for your business to get to the next level simply because you just don't have the mental capacity and what will happen usually is some really small little decisions such as like I don't know replying to this or responding to customers or doing really basic stuff they almost start to Become overwhelming because you're actually like encumbered by two things that need to just be ripped off and done and then paid the bill. Right. And so the entrepreneurs that move the fastest in this game or any business, they are the ones that go, decision must be made, made. Content must be shot, fucking shot. You know, and the shorter the time that you can have between like this decision is required for my business to grow here, it's done. The more capac because what you will be limited by is you'll get into a um a stagnation mode of um I can't make the decisions at this level of my business to grow to the next level because I'm using all of my capacity, brain power, and thinking and kind of mental energy to think and problem solve and rationalize at the $30,000 to $40,000 a month level. And you'll go into maintenance mode where you'll just sit and stay around that and you'll kind of go 35-40, and then you'll be like, no, correct back down because we're still continuing to solve these same problems and make the same decisions at the same level. And the the biggest um unlock is how quickly you can go, new contents required, boom. Here's four pieces of content. Stocks required, scared, jump on, boom, boom, boom. And what actually happens is like, let's say, for example, the moment you received the invoice, you paid that invoice straight away. Okay. What happens immediately afterwards is your brain goes into a little bit of like uh fear in terms of like, oh my God, this is a little bit scary. But then the next thing afterwards is you want to validate the purchase of the stock. So naturally you go into action around marketing and selling, right? But and so what happens when you do what what so so think about this right now. What's happening right now is you know your stock is on pre-sale, right? And you know you need marketing and ad content to scale ads. Subconsciously, consciously, you are gonna sabotage your marketing because you know the stock is going to be delayed and the customers aren't going to get the product now, right? And so we're all saying shoot more content, and you're going, I feel really bad. I don't want to make the customers wait.
SPEAKER_02Okay, you're gonna be really proud of me. I did a shoot last week.
SPEAKER_00Right. It's like hey, I did this. All right.
SPEAKER_02I've got 15 creatives that have been edit editing over the last two days. I've finished eight, which are ready to go, and I've got seven more to go.
SPEAKER_00And I'm actually, I'm yes, yes, but I'm gonna tell you something. Would you would you say that you're gonna be like relieved after paying that invoice? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02All right, so knowing knowing that it's coming, it it will make me push that button on other aspects as well.
SPEAKER_00So so so I'll give you two tools that I think you should leverage all the time. They're gonna allow you to actually make those decisions. So the first one would be to play it out. Think about what would be the worst case scenario, like what would that look like? It's plan it. Let's say you get the inventory, it doesn't sell well, we sell it slower, right? It's really bad. Not really. You're not gonna be paying this invoice every day, right? It's just this invoice. So I would think about always playing out and kind of looking at worst case scenario. That's the first one. The second one would be to just remove that fear about I need to make it today versus tomorrow. Will you get any information that's gonna change the decision about making this decision, right? If it's no, we're wasting time. Do you realize that? So will you get like would the supplier call you? You know what, Jamie, we did a mistake, it's actually just one dollar. No, right? So if that's not gonna happen, then we should just like we're just like and and we played it out, so you know what would happen, you're okay with that. Then those two, you should make a decision. There's none that I would probably think about that there's nothing here to hold you. Those are the two mechanisms or strategies that you can leverage. And I've seen many business owners, they do this and they just go and fly and do the scale thing, and just no worries.
SPEAKER_02On it pushing buttons, left, right, and center. Like we're doing on this.
SPEAKER_01Pushing buttons, you're a high-paid button pusher, all right.
SPEAKER_02Dang.
SPEAKER_03Let's go.
SPEAKER_01But but but it is it is very, very true, Jane, because like as you um, you know, scale it up and continue, you know, like like Haman said, playing it out. Like, say, for example, you know, you're at uh a million dollars a month, you know, and we're having these kinds of like delays and you know, holding back on this and holding back, like this will cost your business like hundreds of thousands of dollars a month in terms of like some of these delays. And as the business gets bigger and bigger and bigger, it's like there is so much more uh at risk. And you're the the trust that you begin to build with yourself through going, okay, uh creative as an example, or okay, stock as an example, have the cash. And and some of the most important things that make all of this a lot more possible outside of just like, I don't know, Jedi mind tricks is like really knowing your numbers. You know what I mean? Like that component, if you know your numbers well and you can look at your you know, PL, you're looking at your cash flow, and you're like, I have the cash and I can see where that cash is going over the next 90 days. Do you use that um rolling 13-week cash flow sheet as well? I've got it, but I haven't started using it yet. I think yeah. That one, that one will help you so much because what you will do, the PL is very good for like your business performance, but the cash flow goes like, okay, so I'm about to spend 30 grand this week. Um, what are the impacts if my business continues to run at the same level? Right? This is how much I've got in the bank, this is how much I've got left over. It's gonna be tight for two weeks and then it will build back up. And because of that visibility, you go, I'm more happy to take the bet because I can see what the future is gonna look like, as opposed to when you don't do that, you're kind of like, all right, so the PL looks like that. Uh, that's today. The PL is all in the past, and that's the challenge of it. It's like that's what happened yesterday and the day before, the month before. But the cash flow is in the future, and it gives you that clarity and that confidence to go, okay, so I'm gonna spend today. We're gonna have two weeks of maybe a little bit of like tightness in terms of finance, and then everything's gonna open back up as we continue, you know, just business as usual. So I really want you to um get that cash flow sheet installed and use that week on week. On Mondays, I call it money Mondays, go through and populate that whole thing and make sure it's all filled out and see where the projection is going to lead you in terms of the bank balance at the end of the day or week. That's gonna really help you like to just have that confidence to go, this is when I, or maybe you know what, I'm not gonna spend it this week. I'm gonna spend it next week because we will accumulate enough to make me not feel uncomfortable in the slightest in terms of cash. And that's gonna give you a lot more, just like it's not just me like having to like, like I said, mind control yourself to push the button. It's like, okay, there's an element of fear there, but let's look at the numbers. That looks very good. That's a healthy amount of margin left over. I've still got good cash balances. Press the button. It helped helps to remove the emotion out of it even more than what we're just trying to maybe like rationalize here with decision making. Because if the numbers are all saying a certain thing and you're looking at it and you're like, that's very reasonable. Just pay the bill.
SPEAKER_02You know, just a quick question on um that supplier side of thing and pushing that button. Um, in my position, am I better off to make a bigger order and have sure shipments as opposed to smaller order quantities and more? Because my product is so heavy, like each tower weighs a kilo and a half. Um heavy. Strategically, I'm am I better off to do larger orders and just shipping bill as opposed to.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And so I think that like like this question comes down to um uh the the more data that you collect from the purchasing that you're currently doing, uh, in terms of the colours, this what the the the issue that you run the risk of uh having with relation to larger orders is maybe uh and and you have not that much risk of this because you have kind of like limited amounts of colourways and SKUs at the moment. Like there's only there's only uh the the bundles, and then there's how many colourways? Three or four. Now five? Yeah, five. So five different colourways and and and so are they all sell similar or some much better, and or how what's the what's the weighting approximately?
SPEAKER_02The bay the green and the burgundy are absolutely killers. Never in stock. We're white. I don't obviously with like my next order, say a thousand, I'm only ordering a hundred white. I'm doing 300 each of burgundy and green, 200 beige, 200 charcoal.
SPEAKER_01Perfect, perfect. And so so so that like the the only thing that you run the risk of doing larger orders is the weighting and the accuracy of that weighting. That's the only thing. So, say for example, let's hypothetically say, way back at the start, you went, okay, I'm really confident with all the colours. I'm gonna order 10,000 units, I'm just gonna go 2,000, 2,000, 2,000, 2,000. Right now, you'd be in a position where you're like got tons of white and you're all out of the other ones. And so that's that's the only thing where sometimes it pays to collect the data by doing more frequent ordering cycles to make sure that that consistency in terms of what people want continues. And then you go, okay, over the last three orders, we've seen, I don't know, the three times the amount of this colorway and this colorway, and only I don't know, 10% of the amount of this colorway. Okay, cool. Let's project that forward and let's do a 10,000 unit order, right? And you've got really good confidence to do that, not just like, okay, it seems as though people like this. So that would be my recommendation my recommendation. Only because I've gone through um the other process myself with the fishing shirt brand some years ago. I did like a $240,000 order because I was like, great, I've got a lot of data. Um, we're going into Black Friday, Cyber Monday. Um, let's just stock up massively, have the warehouse absolutely loaded. And what happened was there wasn't a factor enough of seasonality into the picture. And so about 55 to 60 percent of the um stock that I ordered was accurate and really well selling. Um, and then whether it was seasonality, whether it was just preferential, maybe people didn't want to buy those things anymore during that season, the other hundred odd thousand, in terms of like what that actual direct product cost was, sat in the warehouse. And I was like, oh my God, this is mental. You know, and so like that can happen, and that's kind of the risk of if you don't have the accuracy as per the weighting and the SKUs of each particular kind of like colorway. So for you, I would I would probably recommend um the next like one to two orders, continue on with this slightly smaller, you know, batches until you've got good consistency and data that's continuing to track as far as these two colors, very strong. Let's extrapolate that forward into a 5,000 or a 6,000 unit order. What would that look like? Okay, two, two, two, one, one, or whatever that looks like, however the the weighting is, and you can have a lot of confidence placing that and knowing that it's gonna tie you over for three months, four months, whatever that might look like. So that's how I would look at it, mainly just to get more accurate information because right now it's still quite limited.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And that's one thing, yes, yes. And and I would say something here just in terms of risk levels overall, because I'm assuming you're also worried about well, 10,000 units, it's a lot of money, we're gonna have to pay. So just thinking about that. Um, I would potentially look at can you negotiate, and this is as you get more relationship with your supplier, negotiate better terms in terms of payment and risk. And and I know it might be surprising, but I've seen some clients, they would actually have a big order, but they can pay, let's say, 30 days after they receive it, right? That could change uh, you know, the way you do business entirely and how much you order. Because if let's say the supplier was to take a risk with you, uh I'm not saying that you should not pay them, but I'm saying that the risk would be less for you. And it's gonna be essentially looking at I receive the order, I sell for a month, and I can pay them with a better risk rather than I prepay this whole thing, and then I'm waiting for it to be received. So definitely I would say negotiate with your supplier, but take on it's a big order, they can handle like a payment that's different. And I've seen it where they actually take much bigger risk and they're playing as a partner rather than just let's say we order, we pay 50, and then we pay after like they finish the production. I would think about can you play it out with can we pay you 30 days later and negotiate? Because it's possible, it's not impossible. Uh and if you do that, what would happen is well, your bank account would actually flourish because you're gonna have the payment done later. And guess what? If let's say we play it out, I'm not gonna say that this is a scenario, but let's say the inventory does not arrive in time. Uh you mentioned that as a potential. Well, did you pay them? No, so there was never never money out of your bank account, technically. So the the stress level is very low for you, very high for your supplier waiting for their money. They're gonna do more to actually get it done. So you have them working for you to get the product faster so that you can sell so that you get the point, right? So you have a system where your supplier is incentivized to not have issues and actually prepared for the back back, let's say, backup plan for you where it's like easy. Do you see that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Jamie, the next six months are very exciting for you. You've got you've got a really, really good foundation you're building here. And I think um some of these components, definitely in relation to the stock and the inventory side of things as well as the cash flow. I think it is definitely take care of the logical, the data-based side of things first. So you all of the feelings and emotions can be kind of like rationalized by reviewing the numbers, you know what I mean, and going back into things yourself and being like, okay, hold on a second, like let's just have a look. Okay, that looks good, that looks good, that looks good. Yes, let's place the order. Because a lot of the time that confidence that you want to have or maybe you don't have is is going to be formed from just some like dry, boring numbers that you look over that go, okay, time to order, or yes, I have the cash to order, or whatever that particular kind of like number needs to tell you. So I think first things first, we need to just like refine that and make sure that that's like locked in place so you feel really confident, it's gonna help with your decision making. And then some of the other stuff that we spoke about here in terms of just shortening that period of like, I need to do this, let's do it now, because that's gonna be a big blocker in terms of like helping you to grow. If you're constantly thinking about one or two decisions for weeks and weeks and weeks, um, the business is just gonna, you know, stagnate a little bit, and that's the opposite of what you want to do. Push buttons, push buttons, James.
SPEAKER_00I'll tell I'll tell you, I'll tell you one last hack, just just this is like a side one, not technical, just purely psychological, right? Um, so let's say you're thinking about like pushing the buttons, you're very stressed about that. Would you say that hiring someone to do that would be a relief, right? Probably to a certain degree. But how about how about you pay yourself? I don't know why Safer are laughing, but I'm gonna tell you something. Hire a button pusher. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not I have better.
SPEAKER_03You want to push my buttons?
SPEAKER_00I'll tell you better, better. How about you hire yourself, but you pay yourself a bonus when you do these actions. So you reward yourself about, so let's say today you had to pay a bill, then that could be translation. I need to give myself, let's say, $500 because of that action. If you pay yourself in proportion to the decision making, that's actually gonna allow you to be more excited about it faster. And again, you use the systems we talked about. It's gonna be well, uh, is it making sense? Let's play it out, all of it's making sense. Then I'll I'm gonna get something from this. I'm gonna pay this bill and I get like $500, and I can go and do something.
SPEAKER_02That's it for me. I love shopping, so that's perfect.
SPEAKER_01Solved. Very good. Super excited, Jamie, for the future. Um, thank you for being here. Thank you for for the discussion and sharing your story and also just contributing to the community. I think um you've got a great way of um operating your business and your personality comes through in all the content and the the brand that you're creating. So I know that um a lot of the team love seeing what you do, and um, I know Hammond and myself talk about you often in terms of what you're doing with your business. So it's very exciting to see what you're building here. So thanks so much.
SPEAKER_02Oh, thank you. You guys are amazing. You're incredible, honestly.
SPEAKER_01Thank you, thank you.