Living Indubiously
Living Indubiously
#67 - Cornflower
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We are joined by Cornflower - Our live looping, beat boxing, divine soul brother in music. You likely know him from the song "You Are The Medicine" Indubious released with him in 2018. We get the opportunity to swirl around topics such as ecstatic dance, overcoming addiction, name origin stories, internal vs external validation, and the crazy life journey that music has taken us on.
You can connect with all things cornflower at www.cornflowermusic.com
Whatever.
SPEAKER_04Bro. Bro. How's it going? Doing so good, man. Good to see you, man. It's it's uh it's great to see you in this background, is absolutely entrancing me. I gotta be totally honest, man. It's really nice. May it may it be a guide. Very well done. Thank you. How are you doing today, my man?
SPEAKER_02I well, I've been looking forward to this all day. So it's been a great day. Um, knowing that I was gonna get to connect with you and share heart to heart. Yeah. Been looking forward to it.
SPEAKER_04They're kind of few and far in between our heart to hearts. Yes. But maybe that's what makes them so good, right? I agree. Not that they wouldn't be good if we did them all the time because they're just always good, but there's like whatever it is about our friendship, um, it's something that I strive to achieve in a lot of my friendships, which is like regardless of how long it's been since you've talked to that person, when you there's no like resentment that builds. No, you're always you're always right where you started. Life happens. Yeah. You know, and so I've always I've always felt that from you. Um that it's just like it's just like you're genuinely always excited to talk to me and appreciating me right where I am, just like the first day we met, man.
SPEAKER_02Well, man, life's fucking precious, it's a miracle, and we every moment we get is the greatest blessing and gift. And so, and you know, you are a huge inspiration to me, not just a friend, you know, you're you're such a light in this world, and uh, you know, and I've told you this multiple times and uh probably will continue for every breath we've got on this earth. Uh but yeah, man, it's just uh it's such an honor to share space and time with you and to get to be together is just the greatest gift. So I'll always be in full celebration mode.
SPEAKER_04That's great, man. You know, you know I agree with you. I know you love my outlook. Um but it's very rare that I meet someone that not only not only knows the same truth, but is able to put that into practice in their actions. It's so rare, bro.
SPEAKER_02Do you feel that too? You know, I think um, yeah, I believe that it's somewhat of an anomaly, and I don't know why that is, and I'm sure we could spend the whole podcast talking about it for sure. But uh yeah, I mean yeah, I don't really know. I just I kind of celebrate the mystery of it all. Um that there are these lighthouses that we link up with along the journey, our souls' journey, and they are there to be so many different things. And uh when when you do rub up against one, it's so obvious. And so every moment you get with that is just such a blessing. Um but yeah, I mean it's it's it's it's interesting because I'm I'm pretty isolated here in Northeast Tennessee uh and don't have anything like our friendship in this space, in this region, and um starting to meet people along my journeys, but it's my dad told me years ago, and I didn't believe him, but he said, You'll be able to count the people who are closest to your heart on one hand when it's all said and done. Wow, man. I was like, I know so many people though, and he goes, but how many of them would you know be there for you?
SPEAKER_04But I have seven kids.
unknownYeah, right.
SPEAKER_04Well, you better pick five. Well, you better five favorite ones, baby.
SPEAKER_02One of those has got to be the beloved, too, you know.
SPEAKER_04So uh where do you think that came from for you? Was that just inherent in your household, that perspective? Um, was it insightful parents, or was it something that you had to discover along your journey? It's so rare, you know?
SPEAKER_02It it is a mix of both. I mean, I I definitely have to give massive props to my mom and dad and my family, my siblings. They um I am very lucky or slash blessed, depending on how you want to look at life. Um I uh I was born into a family with two of the most loving human beings as parents who loved each other and were fully devoted to one another until my dad passed away from brain cancer. Um, my sister and brother were like my second set of cool parents, uh, because my sister was 12 years older than me, or is 12 years older than me. My brother's nine and a half years older than me, and they are significant influences in my life, both musically and culturally, and just world my worldview. Um they've all contributed. And I my whole family was just even, you know, we've all got our we're all human, we've got a little crazy in our basket. So there's always layers and levels of dysfunction that we're all navigating in dynamics. But overall, we see past it and we love each other through it and have been there for one another through all the trials and tribulations. And uh, I know that's an anomaly in this world. And so I feel like that is the foundational base of how I show up in the world. I was taught to bring loving kindness into all of my relationships, to open doors, to walk people across the street. You know, that was what I was trained to do as a kid, and and to really be present with the person in front of you as best as you can, even though I'm 95% golden retriever squirrel, you know. I really do try to drop in and show up with each moment as best as I can. And then, you know, life from there had me meet and connect with a bunch of people that just I think um continued to in reinforce that, you know, because when you're vibrating at a certain level, you draw in people that reflect that or challenge you to grow through that, even you know, to go deeper.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, and so I feel it's just been a long, strange trip of deepening into that and finding my way through it. So yeah.
SPEAKER_04It seems like you've been doing um a lot of fulfilling stuff. Like I've just been kind of watching your social media and seeing you doing shows and kind of pushing your musical project forward in a way that I haven't seen from you in what the 10, 15 years that we've known each other, something it's getting long, but yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm 21 year and 21, 21 years into this musical project. Yeah, and I feel like it's just getting started. And honestly, I have you to to thank for a lot of where I'm at right now. Um you were always so lucid in asking the question that would require deep inquiry for me on my next step in my life. Um, and you've you've always challenged me in the best of ways, and uh which is what you know, soul brothers do for one another. Um it's not all it's not always cheese and grits. That's right. Um, but yeah, you know, I I moved to Tennessee in uh December of 2021. Yeah, I'd already been here for a couple months, but that was when my mom had her first stroke. And when my dad passed away in 2008, um I sat beside his coffin and we ate Bojangles biscuits together. Well, I mean, his sat on the side of the coffin, but mine was being shoved down my neck because it was something we used to do together. We loved having that for breakfast together. And I sat there and I said, Hey, I'm I'm here for mom when when it's her turn to go through whatever that that you know that part of life because we all end up facing that eventually. Sure. Um and uh and so when she had her first stroke, I told my sibs, I was like, I'm here. Um that's our text. The sibsies. The sibs, yeah. Um and they're you know in full support, and we're really grateful. My brother lives in LA, my sister's up in northern Virginia, and so they're all kind of distant from here in northeast Tennessee. And um, it's been the greatest gift. I I would feel weird being anywhere else uh and not being here for my mom. She was by my side through my recovery from addiction uh in my early 20s, um, and you know, just had faith in me and prayed for me through a lot of my destructive decisions I was making. Um and just as, you know, even when she didn't get what I was doing, just loved me and prayed for me and and uh supported me in my dreams, and uh so it's a gift to get to be here for her. But then like after about 10 months of caregiving, she had a second stroke, and uh and it got a lot, it's gotten a lot harder. Sure. But uh I've been in therapy pretty much solid since like the early 2020s, and I've got a life coach, and I was talking with my life coach, and I said, you know, I'm don't feel like I should be touring right now because of my mom's decline. And uh he said, What would she want? Exactly. And it just landed so deeply in my heart, and uh my sister and brother, I checked in with them, and they're all in. They're so supportive of my music career and and and really just the the deeper purpose of you know, that's this music career is like the the front for the soul purpose, right divine service.
SPEAKER_04But it's often that our career and soul purpose are somewhat linked up, you know, because how we're living our life. Right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And so um since then I've just been getting at it, man.
SPEAKER_04And uh I have a quick question for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, hit me.
SPEAKER_04Just to kind of a little side note. Yeah, you mentioned that throughout the years of our friendship that I asked questions that challenged you. Yeah. Can you give me an example of that? I'm just genuinely curious.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, the big one was do you plan on living in Ashland the rest of your life?
SPEAKER_04I don't remember asking that.
SPEAKER_02No, I know. You're channeling, you were purely channeling. It was so it was exactly what I was needing to hear because I was going through heavy anxiety and depression. I'd been in a a marriage that was just completely disconnected, a little soggy. I still, you know, have the deepest love and respect for her, but it was definitely a trauma bond. Yeah. And um my loyalty superseded my intuition.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And um, there were many signs that I did not follow through with due to this perceived like chivalry and loyalty to her and to a specific ideal of what a marriage is and what a relationship is. And uh I didn't get the support I needed, we didn't get the support we needed soon enough to navigate the the dissolving that was happening, and um, and so we were basically roommates for almost a decade. You know, we just didn't have that bond anymore and that spark. And um, I mean, you know, we still loved each other and were in service to one another, and and but it was not serving us, it was uh holding us both back. And finally, you know, I think we were on a call and you asked that question, and um it got in pretty deep and was just sitting and spinning in my heart, and it was like you've known for a long time, and this was that lightning strike, thunderbolt moment of you know, you really need to look at this. And uh, I think it was just a few weeks later, I was I've dealt with suicide alleviation a lot. I'm like, you know, I'm not afraid to talk about it because I feel like mental health and emotional health are we gotta talk about that stuff, bro. Yeah, man. We gotta talk about it. Yeah, I think therapists need to be a regular part of people's lives. Uh doesn't have to be for all of time. Some of us it might have to be. This guy. I'm a complicated dude. Yeah. But uh, you know, I almost committed suicide. It was December of 2020, and uh and there was a voice that came to me. It was around four in the morning, and um it just said, meditate. That's all it said. And for some reason, it was so clear and and vivid uh that I was able to relax and fall back asleep. I woke up in the morning and I meditated, and the voice came back at the end of the meditation and said, Do some yoga. I started doing some yoga. And then at the end of that, after about 20 minutes, it said, You need to work out. So I started working out. I felt the best I'd felt in years after those three things, and after a month, had gained the clarity and the strength and courage to tell my wife at the time that this wasn't working anymore and we needed to figure out another pathway. Um, and so began my journey of returning to myself, uh, returning to my truth, my intuition, uh, listening to my heart. Um, I felt like I needed some more support, so I ended up uh doing the Paul Stametz uh Systack uh for about three months, which is the microdosing of psilocybin. I was doing five days on, two days off, and that changed the game. All of my anxiety and depression just bro.
SPEAKER_04I I had no idea.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. It's wild. Yeah, for any anyone out there listening, like my perspective of you from the outside is like you got it together, man. You're a happy dude. You're happy and grateful and gracious and like to think that that could be something that you're dealing with is uh shocking to me. Not in a judgmental way, but just something that I would never assume or suspect.
SPEAKER_02And that's it right there, and that's why we gotta check on our homies. Um because we gotta check on our homies. You never know, man. Uh and for me, I I guess some people might think, oh, well then maybe all that happiness is a front. And it isn't. I love life. Yeah. I just didn't believe in myself. And I remembered who I was around other people, but then alone with my own thoughts, yeah, I got lost. And uh I've you know, I've been dealing with childhood traumas, and again, it's like, you know, it doesn't take a lot to trigger beliefs, um, and it doesn't have to be something that's directed at you personally or from someone maliciously in order for things to fold into your belief system that then are the basis of your choices and decisions. And yeah, at 13, I lost a race in a cross-country meet. My dad's the head coach, he was a Hall of Fame cross-country coach. My dad and mom were like cheering me on, and I'm running across the finish line in last place, and uh I felt so defeated. I felt completely lost. I didn't I lost all belief in myself and lost all worth in myself. And from the age of 13, I'm now 47, and I just learned of this three months ago. Um I've been making decisions based on that belief. And so I feel like a lot of what's happening right now in my life is because I'm rooting into these underlying belief systems that are no longer serving me because I know that my mission here is bigger than the level I've been playing at. Um and uh I've been limiting myself.
SPEAKER_04You and me both, bro. We both know that. Yeah. I'm on your team, buddy. I've been on your team since day one. Oh, dude. 2009. You know, it's 2009. Since 2009. And it's this interesting thing where like you meet someone, you feel their energy, you see how they interact. There's a higher knowing there, right? It's like friendship, appreciation, energy. And you're like, I like whatever this person's doing, it's gonna be good. I don't even have to hear the music. You know what I'm saying? Right, and then then I figure out what your music is, and then I'm like involved. You know, we did our did our song together. For those listeners out there who don't know of Cornflour, um, go and check out the song that we did together, Indubious and Cornflower, You Are the Medicine. Dude, such a good song, bro. It's rare that I can go back to my catalog that far back and go, oh yeah, this tune, that's one that holds water. That'll hold water to the end of time. Um, there was a an extreme, just like magic swirling that was happening there with whatever our energy was coalescing together. Um, and so uh yeah, I forgot even how I got on this.
SPEAKER_02Well, we were talking about I don't even know anymore.
SPEAKER_04There it went. This went. You know, you said something, bro, and you said, I'm complicated. Yeah. Is that just a belief? Is that a belief that's serving you?
SPEAKER_02It could be. Uh I think, I think for me, it's an acknowledgement that I am in a vortex of transformation, and everything is up for um regeneration. Everything is up for like all things. So you reflecting that is going to now bring that into the fold. Is that also limiting it? You know what I mean? So I think the the idea of the complication is I'm coming out of you know, a 16 and a half year marriage, uh, just ended a three-year partnership with a beautiful woman who I thought I was gonna be with for the rest of my life, and and now my mom is declining uh precipitously.
SPEAKER_04Um life is complicated. I don't think you're a complicated buddy. I think you're you're simple and pure and true. And I think that's the nature of humans. I think that the only place in which we're complicated is in our minds. And spot on, man. In our minds, anything can happen. Just bullshit and lies all day. It's whether or not we believe that. It's whether or not we listen to it and go, oh, this, or just go, okay, yeah, whatever, buddy.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Because who who you are in your heart, I don't think you're complicated, man. I think you're just like I think you're just like me. And I think if whoever's listening right now, you're just like us too. We want to be loved. That's it. We want to be happy, we want to feel important. We want to feel like we have a purpose. Like we're here for a reason. The reason we want to feel that is because it's true. Because we are. We all are here for a reason. We all have a purpose, we're all important. But it's the issue for for me throughout my life that I've been looking for people on the outside to that to reflect that to me. And even though they're all out there going, You're so important, you're so special, it still doesn't land because I'm looking at it from the outside. You know? Oh good, man. Your face right now is so golden, bro.
SPEAKER_02Dude, well, well, I mean, it's it's such because you're talking about, you know, how unique and special everybody is. And a lot of people are like, oh, that's the um, that's that trophy that we give. As parents to our kids, that isn't helping them like realize that they are that's the mind kicking in and talking bullshit again, right?
SPEAKER_04You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02But but there's the fact that everyone who is existing on this earth right now, alive and breathing, their vocal cords have never been and never will be again, their irises have never been or ever will be again, and their fingerprints that's right, have never been and never will be again. So that means that every single human alive today has a unique way of seeing the world. Preach it, baby, unique way of touching the world and risk and feeling the world, and then has a unique way of expressing what they see and touch and feel. It's like my mind is blown every time I talk about that and will live vicariously through people who have never heard it before. Because when I first heard it, it was one of those moments, just absolute mind blow. It's God stuff, bro. It is. It is. So you are unique and you are special. I am unique, I am special. We are all unique and special, and there's literal science to prove it. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04It's beautiful, man. Beautiful. So um we were kind of on the train of talking about um what's been unfolding with your music project, and I kind of interjected. We can sweep back and live. I love the sidebars. Yeah, the sidebars are good. I mean, it's kind of all about the sidebars, anyways. It's just like, you know, we'll come back to the track anyways.
SPEAKER_02Context, texture. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, man. Um, yeah, I've been, and I I think you know about this. Uh in 2016, I was on tour with uh it's actually a really cool story, so I'll just backtrack a little bit. Um, there's a another great live looper uh who's a electric cellist named Matthew Shane.
SPEAKER_04I remember you going on tour with him, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, he he works in the Kirtan movie. Like he play he plays a lot and records a lot for Kirtan musicians. And um he was working with Jai Jagdish, who I would consider like the Adele of Kirtan vocalists. You know, she a lot of Kirtan is very monotone and everyone's chanting and saying the same thing at the same tone and key and note, like they're all on that same wavelength. Where she will be like, you know, like really like feeling like soulful. And uh she was having a hard time finding a drummer uh that could go on tour for her North American tour. And he goes, Okay, so this is a long shot, but there's this guy that does can make tabla sounds with his voice, and he can live loop them and then sing backup with you. She goes, Okay, I'm interested. So they booked me, I was a big yes, and we went on this tour, and it was fantastic. Uh um, and it was my first ever time touring as an ons a part of an ensemble. Um, and that was a really unique and transformative and big growth uh experience for me. But we were in Nelson, BC, and at the end of the gig, a woman came up to me who lives in Nelson and she said, Um, oh my god, I didn't know you were a soloist, I thought you were a band. And she goes, uh, I play your music every Sunday at this thing called Dance Church. And I said, Dance what? And she begins to tell me about the ecstatic dance movement and conscious dance movement and uh um five rhythms and Gabriel Roth. And I'm just like being blown away. She goes, Yeah, the your music got on like a user group, and all these DJs and facilitators play your music all around the world on these dance floors. And I just started weeping. It was like my sugar man moment, you know, like I'm you know, playing these events and feeling unseen and unheard to a certain extent. And the fact that people are like shaking their booty chakras in Africa to my music was like blowing me, you know, and um so that next year I studied a lot about ecstatic dance, and it's mostly led by DJs. And I have a big history with DJ music, electronica. Um, my brother lived in New York City and was going to warehouse raves when I was in middle school, and he would send me bootleg tapes from because his partner at the time was recording all the shows, and uh he would send me bootleg tapes of like Doc Martin and Frankie Knuckles and all these like classic deep house DJs. Okay. And uh then high school came along and I started getting into like Rabbit in the Moon and the Hardkiss Brothers and all these incredible electronica musicians, EDM artists, before they were called EDM artists, and um was going to raves all across the southeast. And so it's in my bones. I love dance music, and my music has always been danceable, but it was highly inspired and and by Bobby McFarn and the band Fish and Bjork and kind of eccentric and avant-garde, and did some weird shit, you know, and sometimes it wasn't really danceable, yeah. So it was like sort of sort of bizarre. Um, but uh but so I started like kind of reacquainting myself with mixing dance music and and and how to move a dance floor, and so in 2017 I started touring and adding on ecstatic dances, and man, I it's like I came home um musically, and it's just been growing ever since, and now I've played all across North America ecstatic dances, and it's just it's been so transformative for my life, um, and so many people are they get who get who just get what I'm doing. Um and so that's kind of been my focus is been playing ecstatic dances, and uh I kind of like ecstatic dance to um where yoga was about 30 plus years ago when it started to like hit the mainstream. Sure. Ecstatic dance is in that same growth curve right now and feels like it's just about to crest through into more of a mainstream thing. Um and at the same time, it's totally Jedi training cloaked as conscious dance, like a sober dance event. It's uh um and that's another piece that I love about it is it's because it's deepening your sensitivity to energy. Right. Sober, you know, and and not the old term of sober, which is kind of like sobering. It's more this uh fully awakened, alive, um feeling the somatic experience. Like some people come to it for aerobic reasons, like like yoga in the sense that some people come to it for aerobic reasons, some people come to it for mental and emotional health, some people come to it for a spiritual reason, like the you know, they call it some of it called called dance church. Yeah. And so there's this spiritual quality to it as well. Um, now there's people like doing cacao experiences along with it, and it's so funny that you're telling this story right now, buddy.
SPEAKER_04I'll I'm gonna let you finish and then I'll tell you my thing that's going on.
SPEAKER_02Okay, cool. Well, so and and it's just um, and because I've I've been you know sober from uh I guess you'd call it California sober, but I've been sober because I I have I'm a recovering addict from cocaine heroin meth uh from my early 20s. I overdosed three times. Um and then just in the last two years, I'm now sober from alcohol, which has been such a gift to my life. And and I say that with absolute respect for people who love to drink and enjoy alcohol. I don't you're so nice. Well, I mean, it's not a uh I I see people, I know people who do bumps of coke and live really thriving, great lives and navigate family and everything's good, you know. They just have figured out what works for them, and but then I know people were absolutely destroyed.
SPEAKER_04I have to disagree. Well, I'm just saying, like, I know people can look that way from the outside. That's such a hard balance to walk, dude.
SPEAKER_02It is, it is such a hard balance, right? But what I'm saying is that I trust everyone's soul's journey and what they're called to.
SPEAKER_04I agree with that. Yes.
SPEAKER_02I don't like like when I'm at a bar with friends and they say, Do you want to drink? I'll say yes, and I'll get soda water instead of no, I don't drink.
SPEAKER_03Sure.
SPEAKER_02It instantly creates this separation. Right. Man, we're winning right now because sober's trending, and they are making best non-alcoholic beers.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I've actually started to get into drinking NA beers. I I was resistant to it at first. I was like, that's lame. And then I had one, I was like, this is really good, and I feel like I'm drinking a beer. Oh no, it's amazing, and I'm one of those who's such an old guy who enjoys the flavor of beer.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, it's been really great getting to tour and do ecstatic dances and travel the country. And I've I've got a uh I just came off of the Kabloom spring tour and my last name. Bloom! That's a great name, by the way. Really good.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, uh, you know, it ties in with cornflower. Yeah, no, it's like whoever's in that think tank coming up with those names, bro. Killing it.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Killing it. And then uh the summer's looking good. I've got a headlining festival gig, and then I'm doing some Northeast stuff. Uh but then November, I'm working on booking my first Europe UK tour.
SPEAKER_04Let's do let's do some shows together. We've been talking about it for forever. Please. Please. Let's let's figure out how to make it happen. And so here's a good time for me to tie in. I was biting my tongue the whole time because I don't want to interrupt you. All right, but it's so crazy that you naturally went into this thing, dude, because last night I went to my first ever ecstatic dance as just a patron. I've been, I've seen ecstatic dances, I've gone and danced a little bit. I know about it really well, but never have gone and experienced it from start to end. I've performed at an ecstatic dance um as an auxiliary member of the band playing keys and doing some backup vocals. And this this was with my friend Andrew, uh, who goes by Belowski and Friends.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_04Here in Bend.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And this was back in his birthday, uh shoot, um, February. Right. And so I had a great time, but I wasn't, it wasn't the full experience because I was performing, right? Yeah. And so after that, it was so positive and fun, and the energy there was was so cool that after that I went to Ryan. Shout out to Ryan here in Bend, who's running the uh ecstatic dance, awesome ecstatic dance. Right on. Awesome. They do it every Tuesday. Um, and I hit him up, and I hit him up and I said, Hey buddy, we're friends. I said, I would love to perform. And he said, Okay, send me some of your stuff. So I sent him some of my live streams, and I said, obviously, these are a little bit more silly and wild than what I would be doing on the stage there. Right. He and he responded with, Man, I love your stuff, so creative and hilarious. Um have you ever performed at ecstatic dance before? How much do you know about ecstatic dance? And I and my response was, No, I don't really know much about it, and I've never performed at one before. And he said, Okay, so I'll make a deal with you. If you come to the ecstatic dance a few times to feel out the energy, then I'll give you a date. That's awesome. And so it was inner, it was not what I expected. Right. I thought he was gonna go, oh, holy shit, you want to come? Absolutely, hell yeah, you know. Yeah, it was more like, well, there's some things you need to know. Right. And it didn't sit bad with me, but it was more just like, huh, okay, that's a little bit strange, but yeah, sure, whatever. I brought it up with my buddy Andrew, and he's like, Yeah, absolutely. Trust what Ryan says because he knows what he's talking about, and he's right. Yes. So I'm like, all right, humble myself. Um, last night was the first one I ended up going to. And uh, you know, it kind of blew my mind. Kind of blew my mind. Um, the the woman performing, her name was Tati. And God, she put on an incredible set, bro. It started off real kind of slow, and I was like, all right, you know, kind of like a little sleepy, and then it went into some like super tribal, spiritual, you know, it took me on a whole journey, and like, and then me and my buddies were doing this dance, and like I was, I felt like I was tripping, yeah, tripping sober, feeling the energy. And then I really walked away from it going, gosh, there's a lot that I don't know about this. And in order for me to do what that woman just did, it's gonna take a lot of work. Right. So it's crazy, it was crazy that you're telling that story because I just had this experience. I was kind I wouldn't say that I'm like, I don't I don't know what to say, but the the easiest way to say it is that I've been kind of judgmental of uh extremely hippie woo-woo scenes in my uh throughout my years. Right. Having dealt with a lot of weird stuff and done a bunch of healing on myself through my plant medicine work to where um, and there's still stuff there that's like, yeah, no, that's not for me. Right. Um that being said, doesn't mean I can't go and enjoy it and just accept it accept humans as we are, because we're all we all can be mixed up about things here and there. Um the magic of that setting is that any typical venue you play, people are going there under an energy of let's let's party and have fun, which is great energy, but it's also includes the drug energy and the alcohol energy and the I'm gonna pick up chicks energy. The ecstatic dance is almost completely void of that.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_04And everyone's in their space. There's beautiful women dancing, and no one's bothering them. Right. And I'm assuming that everyone's sober because it sure seems like it, and it's written on the sign, this is a sober experience. There's no drink served, there's cacao, there was cacao served there as well. Um it's an incredibly grounding, uh grounding and spiritual. And so I do have a set coming up. My first ecstatic dance set. Um, I'm gonna maybe need to pick your your your brain on that a little bit.
SPEAKER_02Dude, I've got some things to send you for sure.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Have helped. Uh, you know, because a lot of what I do is not that style. Right. And it's it's less about for me, what what I do naturally is less about um making people dance and more of just trying to express something fresh and new out of me in the moment. Right. So having some kind of awareness of of, like you said, the five rhythms and the general flow, danceability. Because the last thing you want is to play a start playing a track, and people are like, uh, I don't know what to do to this, bro.
SPEAKER_02They're very forgiving because I mean, you know, then the reason why, you know, Ryan, he's he's curating because the community is expecting a specific dance wave when they come to aesthetic dance, and and that's based on Gabriel Roth's Five Rhythms, which is a flow that's it's very starts ambient and it builds to an ecstatic, high tempo point and then brings you back down to what's you know, what you know in yoga is Shivasana, um, but a very meditative ambient kind of conclusion. Sometimes they'll have sound healers or sound baths to help you kind of integrate what just happened. Because when you go through these, it because it's not just this the music, it's the move how you move your body. Are you moving angularly? Are you flowing? Um and there's this great uh facilitator out of LA named Joe Cobbett who um does five rhythms, and uh she I was at one of her dances, and about halfway through, or you know, it's about 45 some minutes into the dance, and she said, Whatever ails you or you feel is limiting you physically, emotionally, or mentally in this moment, I want you to make it the center of your gyroscope. And that just sent me into, and at the time my I was having like knee issues, my right knee was bothering me. And so I then made my knee the center of my dance. Uh, and it was so profound the stuff that that unlocked just from that facilitation, like with five rhythms, they'll some of the facilitators will speak throughout the dance and like help create inquiry and and little moments of guidance. Most ecstatic dance is non-verbal, no chatting on the dance floor, no shoes, which is another um unique challenge for me.
SPEAKER_04Right. Because I'm verbal, but you're verbal, you're singing in yours.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it's it's not that I'm not singing in the music because they have, you know, people will sample vocals and vocal vocal artists. Um, it's just about placement and uh like the the different sections of the dance that you're in. I'm very intuitive. I I watch the dancers as if I'm one of them. I don't I try to see myself as a dancer when I'm performing because it is all happening improvised. I I try to I have like lists of songs and things I could go into, but I only go into them if I find myself in that key or in that tempo, and it's feeling like, oh, that goes here. Um and then I'll bring in a song. But uh a lot of times, you know, three-quarters of the set is just all live and in the moment. And um, but yeah, I'll send you some cool stuff and we can talk more outside of this great man sharing uh about it. But yeah, it's uh it's a I'm so so synchronistic and so cool that you're into that because it is I I definitely believe it's Jedi training. It really is this um a place where human beings can feel things and remember things about themselves and and it become, you know, with and and become aware of our gifts and and how we can show up what our unique medicine is, you know, what what we're here to bring into the world. And um and it's so supported, you know, because it's consent-based, it's safe. You you don't have to dance with another. But if you do, there's this great quote from uh one of the ecstatic dance retreats I did in Santa Cruz. Uh a guy named Tim Hartnett, beautiful man, has booked me for a couple of ecstatic dance events out west. He was saying that the dance floor is like Vegas. What happens on the dance floor stays on the dance floor. So, you know, some people dance sensually. That's how they express themselves in their dance. Sure. Some people are more reserved and or are they only reserved because that's where they are at in their journey with freeform dance. Because sometimes once you start to feel safer, you open up and explore and express yourself in in new ways that you hadn't before. And that actually develops neuroplasticity, it's incredibly beneficial for the brain. Um, but uh yeah, uh, and I love that the that quote because if you do dance sensually and you've gained consent with a dance partner, which is all through eye contact and body language, um, and outreaching with your hand and being very sensitive to those energy dynamics. And if the person kind of pulls away or closes their eyes, it's like that's not a no against dancing with me. That's a yes, I'm choosing to do this on my own. And so then you're not taking it personal, you keep moving. But if you find someone that wants to be in that space with you and you start dancing and all the sexual energy gets activated, once you leave the dance floor, you got to start from square one. Sure. And that's that's the beauty of the dance floor, in that it's not a place to pick up, you know, or or hook up. That's not the intention.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's to really get comfortable with parts of ourselves that we've shamed or limited or haven't allowed ourselves to feel for whatever reasons, because the space is safe and sacred, and the container in most instances is held with that in mind. Um, you know, it's it's a decentralized movement, so you'll get places that are a little bit more loose on those guidelines. And uh, but it's a beautiful experience, and I highly recommend people at least try it once.
SPEAKER_04So, how did you get into like how are you booking a tour of all ecstatic dance gigs? Is it like you just talk to one and they're like, oh, you gotta hit up my buddy up here, da da da, and they kind of just are all linked or what?
SPEAKER_02Um, they're not all linked. Um, there is It's some intercommunication between certain regions. Uh like, you know, New England has a a a group called Dance New England. And so they're all pretty communicative and connected to one another. Um and so when I would contact them, they'd be like, Yeah, we know who you are, we'd love to have you. Um and so in the southeast, I've just done a lot of cold calls. You know, that's been pretty much oh, when I first started, I was literally looking on my tour routing and going, okay, I'm traveling through this state, this state, this state. I went on Google and went, you know, ecstatic dances, Texas, Ecstatic Dances, New Mexico. Yeah. And I found some. And my first ecstatic dance I played at was ecstatic dance uh Albuquerque. And there were maybe 30 to 40 dancers in this small dance studio. And it was the most psychedelic experience I've had outside of actually taking psychedelics. Uh the it felt, you know, in that moment in the Matrix movie where they're all dancing in the cave. I don't know if I remember that.
SPEAKER_04That that it's just like this trauma. That's like in the third one, I think, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, super sensual and like bodies in motion that just felt like it was like one organism like living and breathing. That happened, and I was hooked. Like I went, this is incredible to be a part of facilitating a dance floor for people to just fully be this and and to it's almost like we went from humans with minds that kept us separate to ants and birds and fish. Yeah. How they're all moving in unison and and working together just completely without thinking about it. Right. Uh that's what it felt like.
SPEAKER_04Well, that's the magic of turning off the mind, right?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Just gives you permission to be human being, you know?
SPEAKER_02Right. But yeah, cold calls, you know. I was just cold calling a bunch of people, but I mean, you you got me, man. I I'll once you start vibing it and feeling it, I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_04Well, let's see how my first one goes first.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, it took me a while, you know, and I'm still growing. Like I'm learning right now, I'm focusing on um, like say I'm in uh uh a 120 BPM house groove, and I, you know, I'm still using the RC505, bringing sounds in and out with the faders, and um I want to like it's say it's been about three minutes, and this groove has been kind of going quite similar, other than my vocals over top of it. Um I need it to I need some dynamics, I need something to change. A lot of the times I've been just segueing into something completely different. But what I'm learning, I've been listening back to some old uh DJ recordings, and um especially within-house DJs, they do this great thing of like dropping out certain sections and then building new stuff and then bringing everything back in, but with all of these new textures. So it's the same thing, but it's brand new, and it gives space, like so. You pull the the groove out, like pull the bass and the drums, you know, the uh the four-on-the-floor stuff, you just pull that back and you've got something going, you know, keeping that like pulse, but it's not so in your face and thrusting, and it allows for that spaciousness for people to like because when you're in those, you start getting into the higher BPMs, it can burn people out if you're just keeping those beats going solid for for sure. You need some air pockets of relief, you need the rest, the most powerful note in music, you know, uh the vacuum. And it's it's like to create that spaciousness is so essential uh on to move people on the dance floor and keep people like nourished, um, and finding ways to get like interlocking rhythms. And so that's been something I've been really diving into like in my practice, is I'll build something just to kind of break it down, take it apart, and then bring it back in new, like newish. Um so so it then has like a surprise or something like this whole new reveal that comes through.
SPEAKER_04Um it's also just the power of like building something complete and then taking away parts, just giving just giving relief. Right. You know, cutting out the bass for you know, 30 seconds, and then when you bring it back in, it's like, yeah, I like that part, you know? Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's good. I mean, there's a whole psych, you know, there's a whole psychology to music with tension and release, and sure. You know, I I went to the Fish Music University following the band Fish Around, and they're the like highest purveyors of pushing tension beyond what should be allowed legally, and they just keep driving like you're going insane. Like you you didn't think you could dance any faster, and somehow all of your limbs are moving at hyper speed, sure, and your brain's like exploding, and you're like, please let up. And right when you hit that point, they keep going, and then right when you think like you're about to implode, they and then the resolve, and it's just like pure ecstasy. Uh, and so I've really that's my goal is to always kind of create those um those kinds of experiences for people.
SPEAKER_04Have you ever had a uh ecstatic dance set that was a little bit crash and burn where you're like, yeah, that didn't go well?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, but what's funny is that well well, case in point, uh I was playing ecstatic dance or dance medicine Philly. That's the ecstatic dance in Philadelphia, yeah, Pennsylvania, and they they have this big huge ballroom, uh, massive stage, beautiful space. They had six subwolfers like they probably only needed two to fill the space. They had six. I could not hear any sound emitting from my voice.
unknownCrazy.
SPEAKER_02It was purely muscle, the whole set was purely muscle memory. I I had my in ears in, I had a wild, I couldn't hear anything. That sounds like a nightmare. Because the clap back from the bass was just like voiding out all frequencies. I just couldn't hear anything.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so I walk off the stage in terror that I've just completely wrecked a whole set in front of like, what was it, like 150 people? And uh and my buddies came up to me and they were like, that was the best set ever.
SPEAKER_04Isn't that crazy how often that happens?
SPEAKER_02Dude, I remember being a fan of dear friends of mine back in Atlanta. It was a band called Day by the River, and I went and saw them so many times, and they would come off the stage, I'd be like, Oh my god, that was the greatest set. They were like, Really? And I didn't ever understand that until I was in their shoes. Yeah. And it's so wild.
SPEAKER_04It's a weird dynamic, bro. It is, it's like somehow this reality exists where you can be on one hand laying down some dope stuff and channeling and like bringing the funk, and the other hand, completely judging yourself for it. Oh no. Yeah. It's bizarre. And I it it happened, it's been happening to me my whole life. It's happened hundreds of times to where when I am done with a set, even if it's like a live stream or whatever, I'm like, that was bad. It's there's also like this part of me is like, it might have been, it might have also been really great. That's good to hear. Might have also been really great. And then almost almost every time I feel like it's bad, there'll be at least one person that says that was the best you've ever done. I'm like, all right. Yeah. And then it's funny because the times when I like, in my mind, I absolutely slayed it, but you don't get very many compliments or something. People are like, oh yeah, cool. It's wild, isn't it? It's weird, dude.
SPEAKER_02Dude, there was, I don't remember when it was, but I think um I think it's connected to Jeff Pivar. I think he was the one that said it to me because I was he's you know, we've been I've been really close with him since 2007 and yeah, been a mentor and dear friend. And old JP.
unknownJP. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04The P. He kind of he kind of looks like Jordan Peterson a little bit too. He does. Yeah. You know that me and Jordan Peterson have the same la uh birthday.
SPEAKER_02What? That's cool.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Michael Jackson and I. That's that's that's Michael. I remember Chagarem Jay.
SPEAKER_02Chagarem Jay. Uh but yeah, I think it was Peev. He he said um he said something like, you know, you you can't you're gonna critique yourself. You're an artist, you're a creator, you're human. You're gonna critique, you're gonna critique your creations. It's just the nature of being a creator. The difference is how you frame it, are you framing it in a negative light, or are you showing up knowing that every time you are showing up to create, you are learning. And that every time you come off of whatever it is you've created, there's going to be gifts that you take away from that learning. And so it's it's has been uh and you know, life is improv, you know. That's right. What the fuck we're doing, and that's right. And so so like when you look at life as oh, it's happening for me, and this set in this instance, we're talking as musicians, are it has I've learned, okay, I need to tighten this screw, I need to do this. It wasn't, oh, I can't believe I did that. I I um woe is me, I'm horrible, blah, blah, blah. I used to do that, but now it's okay, I can do that, I can do this. This is my debrief.
SPEAKER_04And it's a metaphor for life, bro. Yeah. Because life is like that, yeah. And it's it's fraught with lessons and hardships and mistakes. Yeah. And we can download ourselves for it, we can beat ourselves up, say we're not doing it right and feel like crap, or we can go, these are all gifts, these are all gifts for me to get better. And when you start seeing it through the lens of gifts, it's just that the gratitude, man. Yeah. And it's, you know, as you know, changes everything.
SPEAKER_02That we even get to do this, that that I'm even alive and existing right now. So many factors that re were required in order for me to be breathing in this moment on a Zoom call with you. You know what I mean? Like so many things had to go right.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. It's a miracle. It is no way to describe it. There's no way to explain it away.
unknownI know, man.
SPEAKER_04There's no way to explain it away. It's not. Oh man. So good. You got some new musical works coming through, or I'm working on it, man.
SPEAKER_02This has been this is my Achilles heel as a musician. Uh I have come up with all of the excuses for many years. It sounds like you're out of excuses, and now you're accepting that you have to do it. Yes. So I'm learning how to produce my own music, and I'm having I'm fighting perfectionism right now, and that is one of the uh discussions I'll be having with my therapist tomorrow in our uh weekly therapy session. Um, but yeah, this is uh I've got just a slew of songs, man. And there's a mix of real, deeply cathartic, emotional songs and dance songs that are more reflective of my ecstatic dance offerings that are all just pouring through me right now.
SPEAKER_04This has been the one most consistent piece of uh musical advice I have given you over the years.
SPEAKER_02Uh stop worrying and just put it out there.
SPEAKER_04That's right. Release music. And so here, let's do this. Okay. Let's um make it a thing where you and I are gonna release a new song together. Okay. And I can do the productions, you don't have to worry about perfection. You just get your vocals done. We'll write something together. Or if you have something you want me on, or however it works is fine. Right. But um let's make it, let's make something. Yes, please. Yes, please. Cornflower Zest 2025. Yeah. Um, you know, releasing music, producing, and finishing music is so hard. Yeah. When you're by your s when you're working alone, yeah, bro, it is so difficult. It's so easy for your mind to convince you that's not done yet, that it needs another listen, that it needs, I just gotta wait until I'm feeling it so I can finish the last verse, that last verse. Oof. I know. You just it's like, but here's what it's like, bro. For it's been for me. Once you get you break through that membrane of whatever that resistance is, it bursts open. And then you can go like and keep the moment momentum rolling. Right. And then it just and then it and then it flows. There's another trick that I that I that I learned from there's this YouTube channel that I want to turn you on to, bro. It's um called the Cult Creatives.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_04There's this guy, his name is uh Chris Alba. And it's essentially giving advice to musicians on how to uh focus on storytelling, releasing content, getting things done, all sorts of advice for for musicians. And bro, it is so anyone listening to this, go go listen to those video, go watch those videos, they're incredible. Right on. And one of his tips is to create an action-inducing event. And this is what a lot of people do in the industry where they go, they set the release date for their album. When the album's not done. Okay. You know, whatever whatever it is. Essentially, what you're doing is you're putting you're you're you're putting this pressure on yourself to get it done, or else you're gonna face embarrassment of like, hey, I didn't do it in time, right? Yeah, you're setting a life circle. Right. And so it's also there's this creativity-inducing power of limitation. When we have everything at our fingertips, every effect, every software synth, every instrument, it's hard to choose what it is. Right. It's like, but and when you have all the time in the world, it's hard to get it out because you have all the time in the world.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But when you don't have all the time in the world, and you go, I'm gonna make this entire album with this bass synth and uh these fo vocal plugins and this theme, then it's brought it in. You you've you've narrowed it in, you've made all the decisions for yourself. Now all you have to do is create.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02When I was on this uh tour, I was out west for four dates, and the whole time I was out west, I'm like, okay, when I'm getting home, I know exactly like that's why I was laughing when you're saying that, because that's been one of the issues is the decisions of what is being included. Yeah, like what instruments, what sounds, yada yada. Right. How am I recording it? Because, you know, am I looping it all or am I going into the thing and doing them all separate? So we have stems and all that stuff. And like, you know what? I'm just gonna do it the way I know how to do it and and record the damn things and get them out there. So that's what's gonna happen. And uh I'm excited. And I'm really excited that we're now on a recorded recording saying that we're making a song together. Yeah, hey, remember this kids together.
SPEAKER_04Let's do it, man. Um if you have a song that you're like, oh, this is the one, send it, and um I'll I'll keep my eyes out for that one as well. I have a lot of these commitments I've made with people, but the good news is that I'm pretty productive as far as getting stuff done and released goes.
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm sure that it will never take as long as it took us to get you or the medicine out, and that is all on me. I don't remember how long it took. Dude, I gave you guys, I think I I first came up with the song, it first came through me in 2009, before we I think it was right around the time we met. And then it became like I I heard I went because I record all of my live sets, and it was like it came through in a an improv, and it's like, ooh, that line, you are the medicine that's been sent here to heal the world with your love, is like, oh, that's juicy. I want to bring that in and do something dubstep. So the next time I tried it with dubstep, and it's like, oh, that's that's definitely the vibe, but it needs to be I feels like it's supposed to be more reggae centric, and so and then you know, we were talking about doing a song together, and it was like, okay, this is it, and I gave it to you guys. I think you wrote your parts, and then I just life happened, and years passed, and we finally got into the studio, and then it took, I think, another two years before it was released. Um, and that's all on me. Uh, because you guys were every time I approached you guys, you're like, here's our lyrics, here's our parts, and then like I come to you and you're like, Yep, we recorded it, it was done in like two days, and then it's like, uh, yeah, so no more excuses on my end. I'm all in. Cool. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I'm here for it, buddy. Yes, sir. I'm sure all the fans are here for it. I mean, you release a lot of recordings of your live stuff too.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, that all pretty much goes to my Flower Seeds Plus subscription service, you know, and and that's um that's all exclusive, you know.
SPEAKER_04So what's the difference between Flower Seeds and Flower Seeds Plus? What kind of upgrades do I get, bro?
SPEAKER_02Well, Flower Seeds is just a group of people who sign up to my email list or follow me on Facebook, and uh, but the Flower Seeds Plus gets uh a new live release every month or so, and also gets access to um studio recordings before they come out to the plus, man. That is the plus. And you know, once I I don't have a lot of like people engaged actively on it. I think once that starts to happen more, there's gonna be a lot more happening in the plus realm. Um, but yeah, you know, I'm just I'm at peace with where I'm at. Finally, in my music career, I finally feel like I'm dedicating daily uh the time that it deserves and it requires to be successful and to do the things I want it to do. Um and I'm already seeing signs of that with the I'm getting reach outs and getting paid for, and there's a lot of good stuff happening.
SPEAKER_04I'm happy for you, bro. Thank you. You deserve it. Um before we go, uh I was curious. So I've heard I've heard you tell the story of how you got the name Cornflower before. Okay. I remember being completely blown away by the story, but would you mind I I don't remember the story very well, and I'd like to hear it again, and I'm sure that the listeners would be interested in it too.
SPEAKER_02Okay, yeah, it's kind of odd that a 47-year-old man goes around calling himself Cornflower.
SPEAKER_04So I was thinking about changing my name to Daisy, but Hey, my name's Daisy. Hi, I'm Daisy.
SPEAKER_02Um yeah, so in high school, uh uh so I was born and raised in Northeast Tennessee, and uh I got bullied a lot in middle school and high school. Um, but I babysat in high school for my allowance, and there was uh a friend of mine who had a baby early at the age of 16, and the guy that she had the baby with was not present, and so um in my off time, I would go and let her go and wash, go to the laundry, you know, and wash clothes or go hang out with her girlfriends, and I would stay with her boy. And uh at this point he was like two years old, and um we were walking to the kitchen and to get him a treat, and uh he just turned around like kind of abruptly and pointed at me and said, Corn flour. And I was like, uh and he said, Corn flour, and I was like, Is that me? Is that my name? And he nodded and just turned around and we kept walking into the kitchen, got him a treat. All right, and of course, like I said. I was I was getting bullied and and was you know not about to go telling people my name was Corfla. Sure, yeah, fuel to the fire. Um, but then uh a substitute teacher who um who was the mom of one of my best friends in high school, who yeah, I used to get into tons of shenanigans with, um, she knew kind of that I had that going on in my life, and and she was uh a substitute teacher in a lot of my classes. And so I would walk into the class and I would walk through the door and she'd be there and she'd say, Hey, sunshine, or like coconut or sunflower, or she'd give me these like endearing names. Uh, it was really sweet. Like just I felt her seeing me that I was a little different from all the other guys, and just um, I didn't have that I wasn't uber masculine, yeah, per se. Uh definitely felt uh like today I probably would consider myself non-binary almost, you know. Like there's this masculine-feminine thing that I was dealing with at the time. And uh, but then um she her her daughter, who is a couple years younger than me, was gross. So I'm like, at this point, I'm like 19. Um, and she had us had a bunch of people over for her daughter's graduation. And she said, Hey, I've got this is your this is your nickname, it's gonna stay with you for the rest of your life. And I said, Okay. So she sat me down, she goes, You're the reincarnation of a blue fourth-dimensional cartoon character named Cornflower. So pause teacher, the substitute teacher told you this?
SPEAKER_04Total hippie. This is some heady stuff. It is so that whole first part is just like totally wild.
SPEAKER_02And then when every time I say it, it just feels like Say that say that sentence again. You are a blue fourth-dimensional cartoon character named Cornflower.
SPEAKER_04You are the reincarnation of a blue fourth-dimensional cartoon character. Incarnation's also a flower, yeah. Um, maybe that was just a flower pun.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_02Maybe it was just one big long flower pun. Um, but at that point, like she didn't know that the two-year-old boy had called me that.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_02And and so the synchronicities start adding up, and so when that happened, I was like, that's just wild. And I was very much tapped into the power of synchronicity. I was how old were you at this point? I was 19. Okay. Um, and so I started calling myself cornflower, and everybody thought it was crazy. But then I read an essay on the indigenous heritage of the valley I was born in. Holston Valley is in the Tri-Cities area here in northeast Tennessee, and it's where um, you know, we had uh a large contingent of the Cherokee tribe were in this area prior to the white settlers.
SPEAKER_03Sure.
SPEAKER_02Um, and also Shawnee, but a lot a lot of Cherokee. And this essay was talking about the golden era of the Cherokee tribe, and when they were the tribes were trading in peace, and they actually would do this at uh uh Long Island, which is on the Holston River here in the Holston Valley, and um the leader of the Cherokee tribe during the Golden Era was named Princess Cornflower. And when I read those words, I felt like a lightning bolt run through my body. All of these things that had happened before in my life all started to make sense. Um, I just had my hairs were up on end. I realized that this was not a nickname, this was a responsibility that I had been handed. Um, that there was something much bigger going on that I was a part of, and that I needed to pay really good attention to these things and and follow follow them. Uh and so ever since then it's been a part of my mission uh, you know, to help bring peace and balance uh to life. And you know, because that's what that Princess Cornflower, she was at the era of peace uh between these tribes. And um and the fact that it was a woman, uh, I find very significant too, being in a male body and carrying the lineage of a name that is feminine. Um you know, there's a lot there. And I, you know, the the balancing of the tribes, the bringing the tribes together. And then fast forward, this is a new part of the story that you may not have heard. When I was on that tour with Jai Jagdish, we went to Victoria on Vancouver Island, and at the end of that set, an Apache man came up to me, and he asked me the same question, and I told him the story I just told you. And at the end of it, he said, Well, that's very synchronistic because the Apache people had a leader named Cornflower, and he sang sacred songs to his people, and so that was like the if I had any question whatsoever of what I'm here to do, that completely extinguished it all. Um, so I'm in service to you know, music is medicine and bringing people together and reminding them who they are and why they're here, inspiring, uplifting, uh, and connecting the tribes.
SPEAKER_04So that's a really cool story, and I can definitely relate. Um not until recent years with my new name, Heaven's Est, which is a name that was that I didn't choose that was given to me. You I'm sure you know the story a bit. Yeah. Um and having it be not the most masculine name. Right. And when I first heard it, I was like, okay, it's really weird, you know. I don't really know what to do with this. And then after a while, um, it's just like, well, I don't I just I don't have a choice. It's my name. It's the name that's been given to me.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_04And you can't you can't like fabricate that kind of a thing, you know. But whatever it is and and whatever it means for both of us, it certainly helps us stand out amongst the noise. And I believe there's a spiritual encoding to what that means for people. It's funny, I've never heard of a cornflower, I've never even heard the word ever outside of you.
SPEAKER_02You know, it's six, it's in the 64 Crayola crayon box. Oh so it's a college purple. Yeah. Um, and it's a bachelor button, is the name of the flower that's also known as a cornflower. Interesting. Yeah, I was uh I just played ecstatic dance charlotte this past weekend, and um the facilitator went and bought, went to the farmer's market to buy a bouquet of flowers. I'm sitting in the passenger seat. She parks, runs in, grabs a bouquet of flowers, brings it back, throws it in my lap, and it's full of cornflowers. And she didn't even know that those existed. Whoa. When she bought them, she didn't even know. Are they the little little blue ones with a yellow in the middle? No, there's no yellow. It's it it they're the flowers almost look like the the petals look like cones with like these little extensions coming up, and there's like you know, a multitude of them all pointing out from the center.
SPEAKER_04I'll send you a I can I'll Google it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Look up bachelor buttons. Bachelor buttons. If you type in cornflower, you'll get a bunch of like nail polish and like blouses.
SPEAKER_04If you type in heaven's assist in order to get my stuff, if you type in heaven's ass, it just shows a picture of my face because there's no one else. There's literally nothing else in the universe that is that.
SPEAKER_02That's so great.
SPEAKER_04Oh man, I love it.
SPEAKER_02Well, thanks for coming on the podcast, bro. What an honor, man. I love you so much. Love you too, buddy. For you, your life, your courage, your perseverance, your beautiful family that's helped you through everything. And uh it's just such an honor that we get to share space together, man.
SPEAKER_04Thanks, man. Love you too. Yes, super excited for your present and future, uh, proud of you, and uh always celebrating your wins, even if I if I'm not telling you or commenting or never, always, you know that.
SPEAKER_02I feel you, brother. You're with me. You're you're for you have uh permanent residence in my left. That's right. Exactly.
SPEAKER_04All right, buddy. Well, thanks for coming on. Uh, talk to you soon. All right, love you, man. Peace.
SPEAKER_01Whatever you focus upon becomes your truth.