{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":3.51,"endTime":6.75,"body":"Talk description to me"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":3.51,"endTime":6.75,"body":"with Christine Malec and JJ"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":6.75,"endTime":7.11,"body":"Hunt."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":26.94,"endTime":28.44,"body":"Hi, I'm"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":26.94,"endTime":28.44,"body":"Christine Malec."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":28.65,"endTime":31.92,"body":"And I'm JJ Hunt. This"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":28.65,"endTime":31.92,"body":"is talk description to me where"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":31.92,"endTime":34.62,"body":"the visuals of current events"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":31.92,"endTime":34.62,"body":"and the world around us get"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":34.62,"endTime":37.38,"body":"hashed out in description rich"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":34.62,"endTime":37.38,"body":"conversations"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":47.1,"endTime":50.58,"body":"This episode is"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":47.1,"endTime":50.58,"body":"going to be talking about cave"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":50.91,"endTime":54.99,"body":"art, Ancient Cave Art. And the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":50.91,"endTime":54.99,"body":"challenge for me in this episode"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":54.99,"endTime":58.44,"body":"is going to be not to go off in"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":54.99,"endTime":58.44,"body":"all a bunch of tangential"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":58.44,"endTime":61.98,"body":"directions because this is a"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":58.44,"endTime":61.98,"body":"subject that has fascinated me"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":62.28,"endTime":67.41,"body":"utterly for so many years. And"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":62.28,"endTime":67.41,"body":"every part of it is fascinating"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":67.41,"endTime":71.46,"body":"to me. So we're gonna try and"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":67.41,"endTime":71.46,"body":"focus on the visuals, I'll try"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":71.46,"endTime":75.33,"body":"not to wander off into wild"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":71.46,"endTime":75.33,"body":"speculation on issues that I"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":75.33,"endTime":79.29,"body":"have no expertise in. So being"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":75.33,"endTime":79.29,"body":"that we're going to focus on the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":79.29,"endTime":82.44,"body":"visuals, I should say this"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":79.29,"endTime":82.44,"body":"initially came from a"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":82.65,"endTime":85.86,"body":"presentation I was able to"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":82.65,"endTime":85.86,"body":"arrange for a group that I run."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":86.07,"endTime":90.93,"body":"And Melissa Smith of the Art"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":86.07,"endTime":90.93,"body":"Gallery of Ontario was the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":90.93,"endTime":94.86,"body":"presenter, and she's an art"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":90.93,"endTime":94.86,"body":"historian who was gracious"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":94.86,"endTime":99.12,"body":"enough to come on to talk about"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":94.86,"endTime":99.12,"body":"her knowledge and history of"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":99.12,"endTime":103.41,"body":"cave art. And she did some"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":99.12,"endTime":103.41,"body":"descriptions. And then JJ and I"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":103.41,"endTime":108.6,"body":"built on this. So he's going"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":103.41,"endTime":108.6,"body":"from Melissa's notes here. And"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":108.63,"endTime":112.02,"body":"we're going to talk really"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":108.63,"endTime":112.02,"body":"specifically about the visuals."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":112.05,"endTime":116.4,"body":"So, JJ, can we talk sort of, can"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":112.05,"endTime":116.4,"body":"you start by just giving us a"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":116.4,"endTime":120.3,"body":"context of the location and time"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":116.4,"endTime":120.3,"body":"period that we're going to be"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":120.3,"endTime":121.11,"body":"focusing on?"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":121.17,"endTime":123.84,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":121.17,"endTime":123.84,"body":"Melissa was kind enough to share"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":123.84,"endTime":127.68,"body":"her notes with me. So I'll kind"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":123.84,"endTime":127.68,"body":"of present some of the some of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":127.68,"endTime":131.1,"body":"the information that Melissa had"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":127.68,"endTime":131.1,"body":"presented in your group context."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":131.1,"endTime":133.65,"body":"So thank you very much to"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":131.1,"endTime":133.65,"body":"Melissa for sharing these notes."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":133.65,"endTime":137.88,"body":"That's super generous. And just"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":133.65,"endTime":137.88,"body":"to say out loud, any mistakes."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":138.27,"endTime":141.81,"body":"In this research our mind in the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":138.27,"endTime":141.81,"body":"retelling not Melissa's in the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":141.81,"endTime":146.46,"body":"actual gathering of information."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":141.81,"endTime":146.46,"body":"So the very earliest cave art"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":146.46,"endTime":150.63,"body":"actually dates back to the time"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":146.46,"endTime":150.63,"body":"of the Neanderthals. So 65,000"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":150.66,"endTime":156.33,"body":"years ago, but most of the cave"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":150.66,"endTime":156.33,"body":"art that we talked about it"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":156.33,"endTime":158.58,"body":"certainly the art that we're"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":156.33,"endTime":158.58,"body":"going to talk about today comes"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":158.58,"endTime":162.75,"body":"from roughly 40,000 years ago"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":158.58,"endTime":162.75,"body":"and earlier. So this is the art"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":162.75,"endTime":167.79,"body":"that's created by homosapiens."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":162.75,"endTime":167.79,"body":"Broadly speaking, cave painting"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":167.79,"endTime":171.63,"body":"techniques and materials"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":167.79,"endTime":171.63,"body":"improved across the board kind"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":171.63,"endTime":176.97,"body":"of century by Century. So the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":171.63,"endTime":176.97,"body":"monochrome paintings from 40,000"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":176.97,"endTime":184.05,"body":"to 25,000 BC BCE, that art gave"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":176.97,"endTime":184.05,"body":"way to the polychrome art of 25"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":184.05,"endTime":188.43,"body":"to 20,000 BCE. And then that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":184.05,"endTime":188.43,"body":"then led to the golden age of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":188.43,"endTime":191.07,"body":"cave painting, which is"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":188.43,"endTime":191.07,"body":"generally understood to be"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":191.07,"endTime":196.38,"body":"around 15 to 10,000 BC. that's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":191.07,"endTime":196.38,"body":"those are the paintings at"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":196.38,"endTime":202.98,"body":"Lascaux in France. So it's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":196.38,"endTime":202.98,"body":"pretty far outside my scope to"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":202.98,"endTime":207.09,"body":"break down the visuals, era by"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":202.98,"endTime":207.09,"body":"era. But I did want to note that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":207.09,"endTime":211.05,"body":"it is important to understand"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":207.09,"endTime":211.05,"body":"that this is an art that grew in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":211.05,"endTime":214.65,"body":"technique and style over the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":211.05,"endTime":214.65,"body":"centuries, it did change and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":214.65,"endTime":219.63,"body":"evolve. So the first Painted"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":214.65,"endTime":219.63,"body":"Cave that was acknowledged, it's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":219.63,"endTime":222.78,"body":"now acknowledged as being"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":219.63,"endTime":222.78,"body":"Paleolithic, this is the stone"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":222.78,"endTime":228.63,"body":"age that was in Spain. And but a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":222.78,"endTime":228.63,"body":"lot of examples of, of cave art."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":228.63,"endTime":231.09,"body":"And the stuff that we're going"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":228.63,"endTime":231.09,"body":"to be talking about today is"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":231.09,"endTime":235.5,"body":"found in France, Spain, but also"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":231.09,"endTime":235.5,"body":"Portugal, England, Italy,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":235.5,"endTime":240.9,"body":"Romania, Germany, Russia, but"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":235.5,"endTime":240.9,"body":"also in Indonesia. And really,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":240.9,"endTime":243.6,"body":"there's cave painting all around"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":240.9,"endTime":243.6,"body":"the world of the petroglyphs in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":243.6,"endTime":247.05,"body":"Canada. And there's there's all"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":243.6,"endTime":247.05,"body":"kinds of cave painting and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":247.05,"endTime":250.68,"body":"Aboriginal art in Australia. But"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":247.05,"endTime":250.68,"body":"the stuff we're going to be"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":250.68,"endTime":253.86,"body":"focusing on today are, you know,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":250.68,"endTime":253.86,"body":"the art that can be found in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":253.86,"endTime":257.76,"body":"around the 400 or so sites in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":253.86,"endTime":257.76,"body":"France and the region."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":258.54,"endTime":261.15,"body":"It's useful to"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":258.54,"endTime":261.15,"body":"talk about the materials that"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":261.15,"endTime":265.71,"body":"were used partly because they"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":261.15,"endTime":265.71,"body":"help us to understand the the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":265.71,"endTime":268.17,"body":"appearance of the art, the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":265.71,"endTime":268.17,"body":"visual impression based on the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":268.17,"endTime":271.95,"body":"color. So can you say something"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":268.17,"endTime":271.95,"body":"about the what was actually"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":271.95,"endTime":275.04,"body":"being used and the visual"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":271.95,"endTime":275.04,"body":"impression that those materials"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":275.04,"endTime":275.43,"body":"make?"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":275.46,"endTime":278.01,"body":"Yeah, absolutely. So my"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":275.46,"endTime":278.01,"body":"understanding is that almost all"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":278.01,"endTime":280.26,"body":"the materials and what I mean"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":278.01,"endTime":280.26,"body":"they would have had to come from"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":280.26,"endTime":286.29,"body":"natural sources, right, so soil,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":280.26,"endTime":286.29,"body":"rock, charcoal, wood bones. And"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":286.32,"endTime":291.0,"body":"so what would happen is these"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":286.32,"endTime":291.0,"body":"materials were often broken down"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":291.0,"endTime":294.9,"body":"so literally smashed up pounded,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":291.0,"endTime":294.9,"body":"and then they were extended"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":294.9,"endTime":300.0,"body":"using talc things like talc, and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":294.9,"endTime":300.0,"body":"then they were bound together in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":300.0,"endTime":304.35,"body":"to a some sort of paste or"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":300.0,"endTime":304.35,"body":"paint, using things like saliva"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":304.38,"endTime":308.67,"body":"or oils from plants and animals,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":304.38,"endTime":308.67,"body":"and then they could be applied"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":308.67,"endTime":312.21,"body":"to the wall with a finger or"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":308.67,"endTime":312.21,"body":"with a hand or even sometimes in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":312.21,"endTime":315.21,"body":"the most basic form a piece of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":312.21,"endTime":315.21,"body":"charcoal pulled from a fire"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":315.21,"endTime":319.74,"body":"could be held like a pencil. But"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":315.21,"endTime":319.74,"body":"they also use brushes depending"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":319.74,"endTime":321.93,"body":"on the era, they there were"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":319.74,"endTime":321.93,"body":"brushes that were made, these"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":321.93,"endTime":325.38,"body":"are animal hair brushes, and I"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":321.93,"endTime":325.38,"body":"think I've seen visuals of this,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":325.38,"endTime":328.83,"body":"I haven't, I haven't been able"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":325.38,"endTime":328.83,"body":"to confirm that these are how"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":328.83,"endTime":331.92,"body":"accurate these you know,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":328.83,"endTime":331.92,"body":"reconstructed brushes are but"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":331.92,"endTime":334.92,"body":"you know, you take a stick or a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":331.92,"endTime":334.92,"body":"bone and you split the end so"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":334.92,"endTime":337.47,"body":"that it can, it opens up a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":334.92,"endTime":337.47,"body":"little bit. And then you can"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":337.47,"endTime":342.09,"body":"tuck in a tuft of hair or"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":337.47,"endTime":342.09,"body":"feathers. And then you can wind"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":342.63,"endTime":345.84,"body":"either a piece of like a string"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":342.63,"endTime":345.84,"body":"of plant material or some kind"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":345.84,"endTime":349.53,"body":"of sin you around it to kind of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":345.84,"endTime":349.53,"body":"clamp it down again. And you can"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":349.53,"endTime":353.16,"body":"create basically a brush, there"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":349.53,"endTime":353.16,"body":"are also moss pads. So you could"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":353.16,"endTime":356.58,"body":"take a clump of moss and use"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":353.16,"endTime":356.58,"body":"that as a dipping pad. So you"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":356.58,"endTime":359.7,"body":"would dip that in the pigment"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":356.58,"endTime":359.7,"body":"and then pad the wall, pat the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":359.7,"endTime":363.3,"body":"wall so that you could put the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":359.7,"endTime":363.3,"body":"you know, put paint on the wall"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":363.3,"endTime":367.23,"body":"that way, you could also blow"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":363.3,"endTime":367.23,"body":"through a hollowed out bone. So"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":367.23,"endTime":370.23,"body":"basically you would spray you"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":367.23,"endTime":370.23,"body":"suck some some of the pigment"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":370.23,"endTime":373.14,"body":"into your mouth or into a straw"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":370.23,"endTime":373.14,"body":"essentially, and then blow"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":373.14,"endTime":376.68,"body":"through it and spray that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":373.14,"endTime":376.68,"body":"material onto the wall. So those"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":376.68,"endTime":381.33,"body":"are kind of some of the the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":376.68,"endTime":381.33,"body":"actual brushes and and you know"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":381.33,"endTime":384.72,"body":"pieces of equipment. As far as"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":381.33,"endTime":384.72,"body":"the colors go like the the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":384.72,"endTime":390.51,"body":"pigments themselves, we're"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":384.72,"endTime":390.51,"body":"talking ochres, Umbers, Siennas,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":390.54,"endTime":394.98,"body":"manganese and Kaolin. From"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":390.54,"endTime":394.98,"body":"ochres. This is a color that's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":394.98,"endTime":400.44,"body":"derived from clay and iron"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":394.98,"endTime":400.44,"body":"oxide. So these are really rich"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":400.47,"endTime":405.36,"body":"yellows, reds, oranges, and kind"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":400.47,"endTime":405.36,"body":"of brownie colors. And again,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":405.36,"endTime":409.59,"body":"this is ochre, you, you get this"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":405.36,"endTime":409.59,"body":"iron oxide from a rock and you"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":409.59,"endTime":414.66,"body":"break it down until you you have"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":409.59,"endTime":414.66,"body":"a powder of this of this color"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":414.66,"endTime":418.74,"body":"that you're interested in using."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":414.66,"endTime":418.74,"body":"And then you add your saliva or"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":418.74,"endTime":423.24,"body":"you add your talc and you grind"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":418.74,"endTime":423.24,"body":"it into a paste umber these are"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":423.24,"endTime":427.68,"body":"browns, reddish browns. And if"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":423.24,"endTime":427.68,"body":"you heat it up as people did, it"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":427.68,"endTime":431.91,"body":"gets the brown color gets dark,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":427.68,"endTime":431.91,"body":"really intense. This is burnt"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":431.94,"endTime":437.7,"body":"umber. And Sienna is a in its"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":431.94,"endTime":437.7,"body":"raw form. It's a yellowish"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":437.7,"endTime":441.87,"body":"brown, so kind of like a like a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":437.7,"endTime":441.87,"body":"little bit mustardy. But then"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":441.9,"endTime":445.26,"body":"when you when you you heat it"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":441.9,"endTime":445.26,"body":"up, you burn it and create burnt"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":445.26,"endTime":449.31,"body":"sienna, you get a reddish brown"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":445.26,"endTime":449.31,"body":"color that's more like get like"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":449.31,"endTime":453.0,"body":"a caramelly kind of color."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":449.31,"endTime":453.0,"body":"Manganese, this is this is"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":453.0,"endTime":457.44,"body":"black. And really when you look"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":453.0,"endTime":457.44,"body":"at the manganese in its raw"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":457.44,"endTime":463.32,"body":"form, it's a really, really"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":457.44,"endTime":463.32,"body":"shiny black rock, really quite"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":463.32,"endTime":465.99,"body":"intensely black and you can"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":463.32,"endTime":465.99,"body":"grind that up and create the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":465.99,"endTime":468.24,"body":"kind of paint that would be used"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":465.99,"endTime":468.24,"body":"for the outlines, often the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":468.27,"endTime":471.39,"body":"outlines would be done in black,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":468.27,"endTime":471.39,"body":"but sometimes you would create"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":471.78,"endTime":475.41,"body":"some in these paintings there"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":471.78,"endTime":475.41,"body":"are almost silhouetted figures."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":475.98,"endTime":479.16,"body":"So they're the entire body is"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":475.98,"endTime":479.16,"body":"rendered in this dark black"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":479.19,"endTime":482.34,"body":"manganese color. And then"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":479.19,"endTime":482.34,"body":"there's Kaolin. This is this is"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":482.34,"endTime":486.75,"body":"the substance that gets white"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":482.34,"endTime":486.75,"body":"and impressively white, I have"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":486.75,"endTime":491.07,"body":"to say like that sometimes in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":486.75,"endTime":491.07,"body":"these paintings, either a figure"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":491.07,"endTime":496.65,"body":"or a background will be painted"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":491.07,"endTime":496.65,"body":"in white. And so it helps the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":496.65,"endTime":501.51,"body":"figures pop on these pieces of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":496.65,"endTime":501.51,"body":"art. And it's really quite an"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":501.51,"endTime":505.2,"body":"astonishing clear, crisp, white"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":501.51,"endTime":505.2,"body":"color that you can get from this"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":505.47,"endTime":506.76,"body":"from from Kaolin."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":507.03,"endTime":508.86,"body":"Can we talk"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":507.03,"endTime":508.86,"body":"about some of the things that"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":508.86,"endTime":510.75,"body":"are represented in the art?"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":510.99,"endTime":512.97,"body":"Yes, there are"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":510.99,"endTime":512.97,"body":"different kinds of that the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":512.97,"endTime":516.99,"body":"categories that Melissa broke it"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":512.97,"endTime":516.99,"body":"down into were handprints and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":516.99,"endTime":521.73,"body":"finger marks, abstract signs,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":516.99,"endTime":521.73,"body":"rock engravings, and figurative"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":521.73,"endTime":524.64,"body":"paintings. So let's go through"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":521.73,"endTime":524.64,"body":"each one of those types kind of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":524.67,"endTime":529.08,"body":"piece by piece. So let's start"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":524.67,"endTime":529.08,"body":"with handprints. In some ways,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":529.08,"endTime":533.34,"body":"that kind of the images of hands"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":529.08,"endTime":533.34,"body":"are some of the most basic"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":533.34,"endTime":537.15,"body":"paintings that you find. But I"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":533.34,"endTime":537.15,"body":"also find them visually some of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":537.15,"endTime":541.14,"body":"the most mesmerizing, so there"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":537.15,"endTime":541.14,"body":"are kind of two ways to do hands"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":541.14,"endTime":544.71,"body":"on the walls. One is artists"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":541.14,"endTime":544.71,"body":"would paint their the palm of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":544.71,"endTime":547.71,"body":"their hand and press the hand"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":544.71,"endTime":547.71,"body":"against the surface and you get"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":547.71,"endTime":551.1,"body":"a handprint. And that can be the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":547.71,"endTime":551.1,"body":"palm and all the fingers, you"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":551.1,"endTime":553.17,"body":"know from tip of the finger all"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":551.1,"endTime":553.17,"body":"the way down to the base of the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":553.17,"endTime":557.31,"body":"palm. Pretty simple. But again,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":553.17,"endTime":557.31,"body":"like that's actually someone's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":557.31,"endTime":560.25,"body":"hand pressed against the wall."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":557.31,"endTime":560.25,"body":"So when you're looking at this"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":560.25,"endTime":564.96,"body":"hand on the wall that 40,000"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":560.25,"endTime":564.96,"body":"years ago, someone pressed that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":564.96,"endTime":567.69,"body":"I mean, that's an incredible"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":564.96,"endTime":567.69,"body":"thought that you're still seeing"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":567.69,"endTime":572.4,"body":"that that it's still on the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":567.69,"endTime":572.4,"body":"wall, you know, preserved all"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":572.4,"endTime":577.65,"body":"this time. It's remarkable. The"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":572.4,"endTime":577.65,"body":"other way that hands are used in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":577.65,"endTime":580.77,"body":"this art is as stencils. So"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":577.65,"endTime":580.77,"body":"we've talked about stenciling"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":580.77,"endTime":584.55,"body":"before this is where you put"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":580.77,"endTime":584.55,"body":"something against the surface"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":584.55,"endTime":589.35,"body":"that blocks paint or blocks"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":584.55,"endTime":589.35,"body":"pigment and then you you spray"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":589.38,"endTime":593.91,"body":"on the paint around it when you"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":589.38,"endTime":593.91,"body":"remove the stencil then you have"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":593.91,"endTime":598.11,"body":"that shape outlined in the piece"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":593.91,"endTime":598.11,"body":"of art and so hands were used in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":598.11,"endTime":600.75,"body":"this way people would suck the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":598.11,"endTime":600.75,"body":"paint up To the straws, like"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":600.75,"endTime":603.51,"body":"we've already talked about, hold"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":600.75,"endTime":603.51,"body":"the hand up against the surface"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":603.51,"endTime":607.38,"body":"and then spray through it. And"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":603.51,"endTime":607.38,"body":"you would get this outline of a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":607.38,"endTime":611.49,"body":"hand. And what's really cool"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":607.38,"endTime":611.49,"body":"about these hand stencils is"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":611.49,"endTime":614.31,"body":"that they weren't just"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":611.49,"endTime":614.31,"body":"necessarily done one at a time."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":614.31,"endTime":618.0,"body":"In some cases, they were done"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":614.31,"endTime":618.0,"body":"dozens at a time. There's a cave"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":618.0,"endTime":621.69,"body":"in Argentina known as the cave"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":618.0,"endTime":621.69,"body":"of hands, where there are dozens"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":621.69,"endTime":626.28,"body":"and dozens and dozens of these"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":621.69,"endTime":626.28,"body":"hands on a wall. And the stone"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":626.55,"endTime":630.63,"body":"of the wall itself is painted in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":626.55,"endTime":630.63,"body":"advance in splotches. So almost"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":630.63,"endTime":633.57,"body":"like a leopard print pattern,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":630.63,"endTime":633.57,"body":"but much, much larger. So you'll"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":633.57,"endTime":639.03,"body":"have a circle ish shape of a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":633.57,"endTime":639.03,"body":"black beside a shape that is"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":639.03,"endTime":643.17,"body":"more white beside a shape that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":639.03,"endTime":643.17,"body":"is yellow beside a shape that is"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":643.17,"endTime":648.48,"body":"a red, and then people would"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":643.17,"endTime":648.48,"body":"spray secondary colors over"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":648.48,"endTime":653.13,"body":"their hands. So then remove the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":648.48,"endTime":653.13,"body":"hand and what you end up seeing"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":653.16,"endTime":657.84,"body":"our hands have different shades,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":653.16,"endTime":657.84,"body":"surrounded by shapes of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":657.84,"endTime":661.44,"body":"different shades. So you have"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":657.84,"endTime":661.44,"body":"got white hands on black"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":661.44,"endTime":666.87,"body":"surfaces and red hands on white"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":661.44,"endTime":666.87,"body":"surfaces, and yellow gold hands"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":666.87,"endTime":674.76,"body":"on brown surfaces. And visually"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":666.87,"endTime":674.76,"body":"from today's perspective, this"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":674.76,"endTime":681.81,"body":"conveys an idea of diversity of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":674.76,"endTime":681.81,"body":"community of family of village"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":681.84,"endTime":686.16,"body":"and who knows what the original"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":681.84,"endTime":686.16,"body":"artists were intending to be"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":686.16,"endTime":690.51,"body":"saying what these pieces but"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":686.16,"endTime":690.51,"body":"today, it's hard not to look at"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":690.51,"endTime":694.38,"body":"these different skin tones."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":690.51,"endTime":694.38,"body":"That's how it presents in this"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":694.44,"endTime":698.58,"body":"arrangement on a, you know, on a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":694.44,"endTime":698.58,"body":"massive wall, a cave wall. And"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":698.73,"endTime":701.55,"body":"it's hard not to think of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":698.73,"endTime":701.55,"body":"diversity when you see it."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":702.36,"endTime":703.95,"body":"Now, I know I"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":702.36,"endTime":703.95,"body":"said I wasn't going to do this."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":703.95,"endTime":709.35,"body":"But I'm going to go on a small"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":703.95,"endTime":709.35,"body":"tangent here because because in"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":709.35,"endTime":714.9,"body":"popular culture, when you think"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":709.35,"endTime":714.9,"body":"caveman painting on the wall, so"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":715.02,"endTime":717.69,"body":"this might come up in a"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":715.02,"endTime":717.69,"body":"documentary or a comic strip or"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":717.69,"endTime":721.17,"body":"something, it's caveman painting"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":717.69,"endTime":721.17,"body":"on the wall. But the current"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":721.17,"endTime":725.16,"body":"scholarship is saying that if"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":721.17,"endTime":725.16,"body":"you study the morphology of the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":725.16,"endTime":729.54,"body":"hands that are shown there,"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":725.16,"endTime":729.54,"body":"they're just as some of them"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":729.54,"endTime":732.33,"body":"are, many of them like have are"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":729.54,"endTime":732.33,"body":"just as likely to be women's"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":732.33,"endTime":735.09,"body":"hands because women's hands are"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":732.33,"endTime":735.09,"body":"structured a bit differently."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":735.09,"endTime":737.85,"body":"And I believe that children's"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":735.09,"endTime":737.85,"body":"hands also figure in some of"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":737.85,"endTime":741.33,"body":"these images, too. So I like the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":737.85,"endTime":741.33,"body":"idea of thinking about the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":741.33,"endTime":745.74,"body":"diversity and that our our"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":741.33,"endTime":745.74,"body":"concept of who is doing the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":745.74,"endTime":749.4,"body":"painting is just our concept."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":745.74,"endTime":749.4,"body":"And so when popular culture"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":749.4,"endTime":753.51,"body":"shows the caveman painting on"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":749.4,"endTime":753.51,"body":"the wall, that's just our idea."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":753.51,"endTime":756.93,"body":"That's nothing that we actually"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":753.51,"endTime":756.93,"body":"know about the science actually"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":757.02,"endTime":762.57,"body":"suggests otherwise. Can So what"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":757.02,"endTime":762.57,"body":"other kinds of representations"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":762.57,"endTime":763.23,"body":"do you find?"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":763.48,"endTime":766.78,"body":"Well, abstract shapes"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":763.48,"endTime":766.78,"body":"are found a lot. So these are,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":766.84,"endTime":770.59,"body":"you know, sometimes very simple"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":766.84,"endTime":770.59,"body":"circles, lines, dots, rows of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":770.59,"endTime":774.13,"body":"dots, clusters of dots, then you"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":770.59,"endTime":774.13,"body":"get a little bit more"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":774.16,"endTime":778.72,"body":"sophisticated. So half circles,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":774.16,"endTime":778.72,"body":"ovals, rectangles, then you get"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":778.72,"endTime":782.53,"body":"really interesting hash marks"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":778.72,"endTime":782.53,"body":"and cross hatching. And then it"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":782.53,"endTime":787.24,"body":"gets really strange spirals and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":782.53,"endTime":787.24,"body":"squiggles and some very, very"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":787.24,"endTime":791.35,"body":"specific shapes, like there's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":787.24,"endTime":791.35,"body":"one shape that's a straight"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":791.35,"endTime":795.28,"body":"line, a horizontal line with an"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":791.35,"endTime":795.28,"body":"arrow pointing directly up from"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":795.28,"endTime":799.6,"body":"it, that's a very specific shape"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":795.28,"endTime":799.6,"body":"to create, there's one that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":799.6,"endTime":804.88,"body":"looks like a ladder lying on its"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":799.6,"endTime":804.88,"body":"side. So two, two parallel rows"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":804.91,"endTime":809.89,"body":"horizontally. With the slats"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":804.91,"endTime":809.89,"body":"basically like a fence or a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":809.89,"endTime":813.61,"body":"ladder lying on its side. Again,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":809.89,"endTime":813.61,"body":"that's a very specific shape."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":814.18,"endTime":818.41,"body":"What's interesting about all of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":814.18,"endTime":818.41,"body":"these is that they, you know,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":818.41,"endTime":823.48,"body":"there's no Rosetta Stone to"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":818.41,"endTime":823.48,"body":"indicate that this is an"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":823.84,"endTime":829.69,"body":"official codified language. But"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":823.84,"endTime":829.69,"body":"they're also specific enough and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":829.69,"endTime":833.02,"body":"repeated in different places"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":829.69,"endTime":833.02,"body":"enough that there is some"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":833.02,"endTime":838.15,"body":"understanding that this is a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":833.02,"endTime":838.15,"body":"version of early communication."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":838.24,"endTime":842.89,"body":"Some of these dots apparently,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":838.24,"endTime":842.89,"body":"are clan identifiers or trail"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":842.89,"endTime":846.4,"body":"markers, so that if you were"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":842.89,"endTime":846.4,"body":"journeying from one place to"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":846.4,"endTime":849.43,"body":"another and you came to a cave"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":846.4,"endTime":849.43,"body":"and you found a certain number"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":849.43,"endTime":852.52,"body":"of dots on the outside of a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":849.43,"endTime":852.52,"body":"cave, or in the inside of a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":852.52,"endTime":856.87,"body":"cave, or whatever, you would"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":852.52,"endTime":856.87,"body":"know whose clan lived there or"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":856.87,"endTime":859.81,"body":"has been there. Really"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":856.87,"endTime":859.81,"body":"interesting. from a visual"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":859.81,"endTime":863.8,"body":"standpoint, I have to say, a lot"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":859.81,"endTime":863.8,"body":"of the photos that are taken of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":863.8,"endTime":867.22,"body":"these, they're either random and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":863.8,"endTime":867.22,"body":"just completely on their own"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":867.22,"endTime":870.46,"body":"three dots on their own, or like"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":867.22,"endTime":870.46,"body":"a bit of hashing hashmark or"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":870.46,"endTime":874.48,"body":"something on its own. But"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":870.46,"endTime":874.48,"body":"sometimes they're grouped"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":874.48,"endTime":877.84,"body":"together. And they're grouped"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":874.48,"endTime":877.84,"body":"together in a way that looks"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":878.44,"endTime":881.2,"body":"just visually to me, like you"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":878.44,"endTime":881.2,"body":"know, if I get a new set of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":881.2,"endTime":884.56,"body":"paints and a new paint brush, I"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":881.2,"endTime":884.56,"body":"want to dab the brush and all"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":884.56,"endTime":887.56,"body":"the different kinds of paint and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":884.56,"endTime":887.56,"body":"make marks on the on a scrap"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":887.56,"endTime":891.19,"body":"piece of paper to see you know,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":887.56,"endTime":891.19,"body":"how flat does this brush get how"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":891.19,"endTime":894.25,"body":"thin a line can I make what if I"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":891.19,"endTime":894.25,"body":"you know, combine this color in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":894.25,"endTime":899.92,"body":"this color. It's a test page and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":894.25,"endTime":899.92,"body":"some of these groupings of marks"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":899.92,"endTime":903.07,"body":"Looks a bit like a test page."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":899.92,"endTime":903.07,"body":"I'm not saying that's what it"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":903.07,"endTime":906.13,"body":"actually is. But visually when"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":903.07,"endTime":906.13,"body":"you get all these different"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":906.13,"endTime":908.35,"body":"colors of dots, you know, so"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":906.13,"endTime":908.35,"body":"I've got a picture here that's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":908.35,"endTime":913.66,"body":"got two rows of six black ish"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":908.35,"endTime":913.66,"body":"dots. And then you've got four"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":913.66,"endTime":917.38,"body":"slash lines that are kind of,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":913.66,"endTime":917.38,"body":"you know, thinner and thicker."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":917.53,"endTime":922.21,"body":"And then you've got vertical"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":917.53,"endTime":922.21,"body":"rows of red dots. It looks to me"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":922.21,"endTime":925.72,"body":"like someone's testing their"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":922.21,"endTime":925.72,"body":"paint brush. But I'm not, I'm"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":925.72,"endTime":929.02,"body":"not claiming that's what it"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":925.72,"endTime":929.02,"body":"actually is. Sounds like this is"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":929.26,"endTime":933.64,"body":"the beginnings of a basic"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":929.26,"endTime":933.64,"body":"pictorial pictogram language,"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":934.06,"endTime":936.79,"body":"If I understand"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":934.06,"endTime":936.79,"body":"correctly, not all of the art"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":936.82,"endTime":941.53,"body":"was painted on with pigments."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":936.82,"endTime":941.53,"body":"Can we talk about the ways that"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":941.68,"endTime":946.51,"body":"engraving or using the texture"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":941.68,"endTime":946.51,"body":"of the surface was incorporated?"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":946.72,"endTime":948.94,"body":"Yeah, this is really"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":946.72,"endTime":948.94,"body":"interesting. So you know that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":948.94,"endTime":954.22,"body":"the painting is perhaps visually"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":948.94,"endTime":954.22,"body":"more spectacular. But I think"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":954.22,"endTime":956.71,"body":"that the the number of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":954.22,"endTime":956.71,"body":"engravings on walls, actually,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":956.71,"endTime":959.17,"body":"it's much more numerous, there"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":956.71,"endTime":959.17,"body":"are a lot of engravings on"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":959.17,"endTime":963.37,"body":"walls. Sometimes these are lines"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":959.17,"endTime":963.37,"body":"or marks that are just like, you"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":963.37,"endTime":968.74,"body":"know, hash marks or something"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":963.37,"endTime":968.74,"body":"that are made with a rock or"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":968.98,"endTime":972.94,"body":"apparently, some Flint was"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":968.98,"endTime":972.94,"body":"turned into like a small crude"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":972.94,"endTime":976.99,"body":"pic, that could be used to"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":972.94,"endTime":976.99,"body":"scrape away the surfaces. And so"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":976.99,"endTime":980.5,"body":"sometimes this would be done to,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":976.99,"endTime":980.5,"body":"you know, just make lines on the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":980.5,"endTime":983.74,"body":"wall, again, who knows why or"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":980.5,"endTime":983.74,"body":"what those lines were"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":983.74,"endTime":988.96,"body":"representing, sometimes, you an"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":983.74,"endTime":988.96,"body":"artist would do an animal in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":988.99,"endTime":992.17,"body":"outline, so you would do a line"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":988.99,"endTime":992.17,"body":"drawing of an animal, but it"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":992.17,"endTime":995.83,"body":"would be engraved in the wall."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":992.17,"endTime":995.83,"body":"So an engraving that shows the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":995.86,"endTime":1000.45,"body":"outer edges of a deer with the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":995.86,"endTime":1000.45,"body":"antlers coming up, and then"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1000.45,"endTime":1003.99,"body":"maybe even a little dot for the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1000.45,"endTime":1003.99,"body":"eye, which is a pretty"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1003.99,"endTime":1007.83,"body":"sophisticated bit of, you know,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1003.99,"endTime":1007.83,"body":"facial rendering or feature"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1007.83,"endTime":1011.76,"body":"rendering. And so, you know,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1007.83,"endTime":1011.76,"body":"sometimes these were just line"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1012.18,"endTime":1016.83,"body":"line etchings in the wall,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1012.18,"endTime":1016.83,"body":"sometimes then those lines would"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1016.83,"endTime":1021.39,"body":"be painted in, so you would both"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1016.83,"endTime":1021.39,"body":"affect the wall the cave surface"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1021.6,"endTime":1024.42,"body":"with with an etching and then"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1021.6,"endTime":1024.42,"body":"you would paint on top of it."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1024.72,"endTime":1028.53,"body":"But like you said, there's also"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1024.72,"endTime":1028.53,"body":"this an interesting use of the,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1028.71,"endTime":1034.38,"body":"the typography of the wall, the,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1028.71,"endTime":1034.38,"body":"of the texture of the wall. So"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1034.38,"endTime":1039.33,"body":"an artist might do an etching of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1034.38,"endTime":1039.33,"body":"an animal and use some of the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1039.33,"endTime":1045.24,"body":"bumps, the surface texture to"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1039.33,"endTime":1045.24,"body":"enhance their art. It's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1045.27,"endTime":1048.3,"body":"sometimes difficult to see this"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1045.27,"endTime":1048.3,"body":"in photographs. But I've got a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1048.33,"endTime":1051.57,"body":"I've got a picture here of an"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1048.33,"endTime":1051.57,"body":"engraving of a horse. So this is"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1051.57,"endTime":1056.07,"body":"a horse on a cave wall. And"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1051.57,"endTime":1056.07,"body":"right about the belly height of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1056.07,"endTime":1060.9,"body":"this horse. So it's a horse in,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1056.07,"endTime":1060.9,"body":"in profile, always animals and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1060.93,"endTime":1063.72,"body":"figures are, are done in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1060.93,"endTime":1063.72,"body":"profile. So you're looking at"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1063.72,"endTime":1068.37,"body":"the side of this horse. And"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1063.72,"endTime":1068.37,"body":"right along the belly, that the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1068.37,"endTime":1071.25,"body":"cave wall kind of bulges a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1068.37,"endTime":1071.25,"body":"little bit, it's a little bit"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1071.25,"endTime":1075.96,"body":"bumpy. And the the underside of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1071.25,"endTime":1075.96,"body":"the belly is right under that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1075.96,"endTime":1080.97,"body":"bump in the cave wall. And then"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1075.96,"endTime":1080.97,"body":"the neck of the of the horse is"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1081.06,"endTime":1085.77,"body":"above. So you've got really this"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1081.06,"endTime":1085.77,"body":"bumpy stretch across the middle"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1085.8,"endTime":1089.55,"body":"that toward the body of the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1085.8,"endTime":1089.55,"body":"horse. And so it makes it look"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1089.55,"endTime":1091.95,"body":"like the horses three"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1089.55,"endTime":1091.95,"body":"dimensional, it looks like a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1091.95,"endTime":1096.27,"body":"relief carving of a horse on the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1091.95,"endTime":1096.27,"body":"wall, which is really"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1096.27,"endTime":1100.62,"body":"interesting. It's tactile, it's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1096.27,"endTime":1100.62,"body":"a little bit three dimensional,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1100.77,"endTime":1104.76,"body":"which is kind of interesting for"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1100.77,"endTime":1104.76,"body":"etching in a wall. There are"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1104.76,"endTime":1110.55,"body":"also etchings of human figures."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1104.76,"endTime":1110.55,"body":"The human figures are much more"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1110.55,"endTime":1115.29,"body":"rare in these. In cave cave art,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1110.55,"endTime":1115.29,"body":"it's usually animals, if they're"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1115.29,"endTime":1117.18,"body":"if there's a figurative"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1115.29,"endTime":1117.18,"body":"representation, it's usually"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1117.18,"endTime":1121.86,"body":"animals. But there is a very"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1117.18,"endTime":1121.86,"body":"famous etching. It's a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1121.86,"endTime":1125.85,"body":"collection of 16 different"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1121.86,"endTime":1125.85,"body":"figures in a group. But it's a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1125.85,"endTime":1129.72,"body":"little bit tricky because in, in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1125.85,"endTime":1129.72,"body":"cave art, there's almost never a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1129.72,"endTime":1133.26,"body":"floor, no one paints the floor"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1129.72,"endTime":1133.26,"body":"or the ground. No one paints"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1133.8,"endTime":1137.61,"body":"trees and mountains. There's no"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1133.8,"endTime":1137.61,"body":"landscape so it's a little bit"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1137.61,"endTime":1140.73,"body":"hard to orient sometimes. So"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1137.61,"endTime":1140.73,"body":"this one etching has a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1140.73,"endTime":1144.36,"body":"collection of 16 different"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1140.73,"endTime":1144.36,"body":"figures. These are faceless"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1144.36,"endTime":1148.29,"body":"figures, but not stick figures."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1144.36,"endTime":1148.29,"body":"These are fully rendered with,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1148.5,"endTime":1154.11,"body":"you know, outlined bodies, no"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1148.5,"endTime":1154.11,"body":"hands or feet. These are tapered"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1154.11,"endTime":1157.41,"body":"hands or feet, which is a really"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1154.11,"endTime":1157.41,"body":"interesting style that happens"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1158.28,"endTime":1162.0,"body":"with animals and humans. I"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1158.28,"endTime":1162.0,"body":"imagine there's a technical"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1162.0,"endTime":1165.03,"body":"reason it's really really"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1162.0,"endTime":1165.03,"body":"difficult to paint hands, you"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1165.03,"endTime":1168.54,"body":"know, fingers and toes, or to in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1165.03,"endTime":1168.54,"body":"this case, Edge fingers and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1168.54,"endTime":1171.78,"body":"toes. And same with facial"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1168.54,"endTime":1171.78,"body":"features. But what it does is"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1171.78,"endTime":1176.73,"body":"create a very distinctive look a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1171.78,"endTime":1176.73,"body":"style to this to this art. So"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1176.73,"endTime":1181.92,"body":"this one cave etching of 16"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1176.73,"endTime":1181.92,"body":"figures is is I think, rather"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1181.92,"endTime":1186.36,"body":"unique. In the world of etching"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1181.92,"endTime":1186.36,"body":"in cave art."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1186.96,"endTime":1189.27,"body":"One of the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1186.96,"endTime":1189.27,"body":"directions scholarship has gone"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1189.27,"endTime":1195.48,"body":"which I think is so interesting"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1189.27,"endTime":1195.48,"body":"is to consider where exactly the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1195.48,"endTime":1199.26,"body":"art would have been viewed from"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1195.48,"endTime":1199.26,"body":"and so there's a couple of ways"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1199.26,"endTime":1204.21,"body":"that I've read The displays out."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1199.26,"endTime":1204.21,"body":"So an animal will only look like"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1204.21,"endTime":1207.84,"body":"itself. If you look at it from"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1204.21,"endTime":1207.84,"body":"one specific spot in the cave,"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1207.84,"endTime":1212.55,"body":"because the cave wall has been"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1207.84,"endTime":1212.55,"body":"used, the contours of the wall"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1212.55,"endTime":1218.64,"body":"have been used. And another"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1212.55,"endTime":1218.64,"body":"example I've read is that the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1218.64,"endTime":1224.22,"body":"best place to view a particular"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1218.64,"endTime":1224.22,"body":"set of cave art also happened"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1224.22,"endTime":1228.87,"body":"just happens to be the most"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1224.22,"endTime":1228.87,"body":"acoustically perfect spot in the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1228.87,"endTime":1232.02,"body":"cave. And that the third way"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1228.87,"endTime":1232.02,"body":"that I've read is, is"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1232.47,"endTime":1237.21,"body":"archaeologists, trying to use"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1232.47,"endTime":1237.21,"body":"natural light. So putting a"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1237.21,"endTime":1240.51,"body":"fire, for example, building a"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1237.21,"endTime":1240.51,"body":"fire where it looks as though"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1240.54,"endTime":1244.77,"body":"people in prehistoric times had"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1240.54,"endTime":1244.77,"body":"built a fire. And so viewing the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1244.8,"endTime":1249.18,"body":"art in the way that the people"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1244.8,"endTime":1249.18,"body":"of the time did. And so I wonder"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1249.21,"endTime":1253.23,"body":"whether looking at this stuff in"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1249.21,"endTime":1253.23,"body":"photographs is in some way"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1253.23,"endTime":1255.21,"body":"profoundly unsatisfying."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1255.66,"endTime":1259.74,"body":"Yeah, that's a really"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1255.66,"endTime":1259.74,"body":"good point. When you take a look"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1259.74,"endTime":1261.87,"body":"at some of these images, and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1259.74,"endTime":1261.87,"body":"photographs, there's no"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1261.87,"endTime":1266.37,"body":"situational context, you know,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1261.87,"endTime":1266.37,"body":"you're often in a cramped space."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1266.4,"endTime":1269.94,"body":"So if you're going to take what"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1266.4,"endTime":1269.94,"body":"we consider to be a good clean"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1269.94,"endTime":1274.68,"body":"photo, of, of one of these"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1269.94,"endTime":1274.68,"body":"pieces, you got to get close."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1275.28,"endTime":1279.33,"body":"And you can and you take a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1275.28,"endTime":1279.33,"body":"picture of just the the specific"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1279.57,"endTime":1283.59,"body":"item or symbol or"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1279.57,"endTime":1283.59,"body":"representation, and then that's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1283.59,"endTime":1288.0,"body":"it, often with a harsh flash. So"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1283.59,"endTime":1288.0,"body":"the colors aren't necessarily"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1289.02,"endTime":1291.54,"body":"accurate, certainly not how they"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1289.02,"endTime":1291.54,"body":"would have been originally"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1291.6,"endTime":1295.65,"body":"viewed, like you say. And so"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1291.6,"endTime":1295.65,"body":"it's, it's, it's a little bit"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1295.65,"endTime":1300.48,"body":"unsatisfying in there. Also,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1295.65,"endTime":1300.48,"body":"there's so out of context, you"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1300.48,"endTime":1304.29,"body":"have no idea how large they are,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1300.48,"endTime":1304.29,"body":"you know, how big how small how"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1304.29,"endTime":1307.2,"body":"they relate to the rest of the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1304.29,"endTime":1307.2,"body":"surroundings. And then if you do"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1307.2,"endTime":1310.26,"body":"take those pictures, you have to"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1307.2,"endTime":1310.26,"body":"do so with a with a funky lens,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1310.26,"endTime":1312.51,"body":"right. So you do it with a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1310.26,"endTime":1312.51,"body":"fisheye lens or something which"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1312.75,"endTime":1318.9,"body":"distorts so you can get more of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1312.75,"endTime":1318.9,"body":"the of the cave, in view of the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1318.9,"endTime":1323.01,"body":"of the camera lens, you have to"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1318.9,"endTime":1323.01,"body":"distort it in order to do so. So"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1323.01,"endTime":1326.7,"body":"there are some very cool"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1323.01,"endTime":1326.7,"body":"pictures that make you feel the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1326.7,"endTime":1330.6,"body":"ceiling overhead. Because you"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1326.7,"endTime":1330.6,"body":"know, you're taking it from the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1330.6,"endTime":1334.29,"body":"ground up. So you can see a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1330.6,"endTime":1334.29,"body":"person's head poking up from the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1334.29,"endTime":1338.22,"body":"corner of the picture from the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1334.29,"endTime":1338.22,"body":"bottom corner. And then overhead"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1338.22,"endTime":1340.32,"body":"are all these paintings, because"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1338.22,"endTime":1340.32,"body":"a lot of these paintings were"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1340.32,"endTime":1344.28,"body":"done on ceilings of caves. And"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1340.32,"endTime":1344.28,"body":"that's really cool. But again,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1344.28,"endTime":1348.27,"body":"it's not quite the same as being"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1344.28,"endTime":1348.27,"body":"there and seeing it I love the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1348.27,"endTime":1351.45,"body":"idea of seeing it with the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1348.27,"endTime":1351.45,"body":"natural firelight that makes so"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1351.45,"endTime":1354.51,"body":"much sense to me. Just"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1351.45,"endTime":1354.51,"body":"instinctively, because that's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1354.51,"endTime":1355.95,"body":"how this would have been viewed"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1354.51,"endTime":1355.95,"body":"that's how it would have been"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1355.95,"endTime":1360.39,"body":"created would have been viewed."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1355.95,"endTime":1360.39,"body":"That's how everyone would have"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1360.39,"endTime":1363.3,"body":"the time would have experienced"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1360.39,"endTime":1363.3,"body":"this just makes sense."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1363.81,"endTime":1368.46,"body":"The most well"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1363.81,"endTime":1368.46,"body":"known and flashy cave art is of"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1368.73,"endTime":1372.75,"body":"animals. And so can we talk"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1368.73,"endTime":1372.75,"body":"about the representational stuff"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1372.75,"endTime":1375.57,"body":"that represents things that we"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1372.75,"endTime":1375.57,"body":"recognize today?"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1375.66,"endTime":1378.06,"body":"Totally. These are the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1375.66,"endTime":1378.06,"body":"real showstoppers, right, the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1378.06,"endTime":1381.63,"body":"figurative cave paintings,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1378.06,"endTime":1381.63,"body":"mostly, the subjects are"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1381.63,"endTime":1384.54,"body":"animals. So these are animals"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1381.63,"endTime":1384.54,"body":"that would have been encountered"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1384.54,"endTime":1391.47,"body":"or hunted during the ice age. So"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1384.54,"endTime":1391.47,"body":"mammoths, horses, lions, deer,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1391.5,"endTime":1397.05,"body":"or ox. So these are like ox"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1391.5,"endTime":1397.05,"body":"ancestors of modern cattle. But"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1397.05,"endTime":1399.66,"body":"what's interesting is often the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1397.05,"endTime":1399.66,"body":"things that people would have"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1399.66,"endTime":1404.22,"body":"been hunting in using for food"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1399.66,"endTime":1404.22,"body":"or not the animals that would"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1404.22,"endTime":1407.82,"body":"have been represented in their"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1404.22,"endTime":1407.82,"body":"art, so they will be represented"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1407.82,"endTime":1410.49,"body":"and other people's art. So"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1407.82,"endTime":1410.49,"body":"there's something maybe about"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1410.49,"endTime":1415.53,"body":"the animals being, I don't know"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1410.49,"endTime":1415.53,"body":"about unusual but revered and a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1415.53,"endTime":1419.19,"body":"little bit more sacred, perhaps"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1415.53,"endTime":1419.19,"body":"than just the day to day animal."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1420.09,"endTime":1422.58,"body":"And so one thing I wanted to"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1420.09,"endTime":1422.58,"body":"talk about is that there might"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1422.58,"endTime":1426.06,"body":"be a notion that these paintings"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1422.58,"endTime":1426.06,"body":"look quote, unquote, primitive,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1426.33,"endTime":1430.29,"body":"right? You talked about the way"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1426.33,"endTime":1430.29,"body":"cave art is sometimes"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1430.29,"endTime":1435.21,"body":"represented in popular culture"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1430.29,"endTime":1435.21,"body":"and in cartoons, they you're hit"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1435.21,"endTime":1438.12,"body":"the nail on the head, there"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1435.21,"endTime":1438.12,"body":"really is a there's a trope, a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1438.12,"endTime":1442.71,"body":"comic strip or really a comic"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1438.12,"endTime":1442.71,"body":"single panel trope of cavemen"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1442.74,"endTime":1447.45,"body":"painting on cave walls. The New"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1442.74,"endTime":1447.45,"body":"Yorker loves these, one of my"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1447.45,"endTime":1453.27,"body":"favorites from the New Yorker is"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1447.45,"endTime":1453.27,"body":"two cave people in a cave and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1453.27,"endTime":1459.24,"body":"they're wearing the fur one"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1453.27,"endTime":1459.24,"body":"piece skirt that goes over one"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1459.24,"endTime":1462.27,"body":"shoulder, long hair, and they"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1459.24,"endTime":1462.27,"body":"are in a cave, there's a little"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1462.27,"endTime":1465.09,"body":"fire behind them and they are"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1462.27,"endTime":1465.09,"body":"standing against a cave wall."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1465.24,"endTime":1468.75,"body":"And one of them has a like a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1465.24,"endTime":1468.75,"body":"very rudimentary brush in their"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1468.75,"endTime":1472.17,"body":"hand with maybe even a stick of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1468.75,"endTime":1472.17,"body":"charcoal in on the wall or two"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1472.17,"endTime":1476.01,"body":"stick figures. And that's it."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1472.17,"endTime":1476.01,"body":"They're just two stick figures."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1476.16,"endTime":1480.57,"body":"And the person standing beside"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1476.16,"endTime":1480.57,"body":"the artist says \"Maybe it needs"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1480.57,"endTime":1485.28,"body":"a caption?\". And this cartoon"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1480.57,"endTime":1485.28,"body":"has under it, \"It begins.\""},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1485.28,"endTime":1485.37,"body":"Chuckle"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1485.58,"endTime":1489.45,"body":"So this is the idea"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1485.58,"endTime":1489.45,"body":"that gets put out there a lot."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1489.45,"endTime":1493.32,"body":"Lots of stick figures in cave"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1489.45,"endTime":1493.32,"body":"art, lots of childish,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1493.35,"endTime":1498.63,"body":"simplistic drawings, and that's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1493.35,"endTime":1498.63,"body":"not really accurate. There are"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1498.63,"endTime":1502.29,"body":"some stick figures on on cave"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1498.63,"endTime":1502.29,"body":"walls, but they're by no means"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1502.32,"endTime":1506.04,"body":"simplistic and they're"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1502.32,"endTime":1506.04,"body":"definitely not childish. There's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1506.04,"endTime":1510.93,"body":"a really distinctive style to"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1506.04,"endTime":1510.93,"body":"cave paintings, it's, that's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1510.93,"endTime":1514.77,"body":"absolutely clear to me and not"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1510.93,"endTime":1514.77,"body":"you know, I'm quite uneducated,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1514.77,"endTime":1518.67,"body":"I'm just a casual observer, but"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1514.77,"endTime":1518.67,"body":"I can, there is a style here"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1518.67,"endTime":1522.63,"body":"that is absolutely as clear to"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1518.67,"endTime":1522.63,"body":"me, if you took a cave painting"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1522.63,"endTime":1527.34,"body":"off, you know, off of a wall, a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1522.63,"endTime":1527.34,"body":"cave wall and France, completely"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1527.34,"endTime":1530.97,"body":"removed it from its context, put"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1527.34,"endTime":1530.97,"body":"it on a poster, I would be able"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1530.97,"endTime":1533.58,"body":"to look at that as a casual"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1530.97,"endTime":1533.58,"body":"observer and say, Oh, that's a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1533.58,"endTime":1537.9,"body":"cave painting, I would no lie"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1533.58,"endTime":1537.9,"body":"early. Yeah, the palette, those"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1537.9,"endTime":1541.08,"body":"colors, I would know all that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1537.9,"endTime":1541.08,"body":"color palette, I would know the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1541.08,"endTime":1546.15,"body":"style. But that this idea that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1541.08,"endTime":1546.15,"body":"the feet, the hooves and and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1546.15,"endTime":1550.98,"body":"limbs come tapered to a point,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1546.15,"endTime":1550.98,"body":"the way that the animals are"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1550.98,"endTime":1555.09,"body":"rendered, there's a style of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1550.98,"endTime":1555.09,"body":"fluidity to the movement. So"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1555.24,"endTime":1558.9,"body":"that I always think of these"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1555.24,"endTime":1558.9,"body":"cave paintings that and again,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1558.9,"endTime":1562.53,"body":"we're talking about a huge range"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1558.9,"endTime":1562.53,"body":"over centuries. But you know,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1562.56,"endTime":1565.74,"body":"the cave paintings that we know"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1562.56,"endTime":1565.74,"body":"from France that are the most"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1565.74,"endTime":1570.9,"body":"prominent and you know, and that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1565.74,"endTime":1570.9,"body":"are most available online, I"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1570.9,"endTime":1574.5,"body":"always think they have a bit of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1570.9,"endTime":1574.5,"body":"a mid century illustration kind"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1574.5,"endTime":1577.74,"body":"of look, like a graphic design"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1574.5,"endTime":1577.74,"body":"from the 1950's kind of look."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1577.98,"endTime":1582.72,"body":"Very expressive simple lines and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1577.98,"endTime":1582.72,"body":"shapes, not simplistic, but"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1582.72,"endTime":1587.1,"body":"clean. And a lot of the complex"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1582.72,"endTime":1587.1,"body":"details are removed and replaced"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1587.1,"endTime":1590.07,"body":"with the stylish choices like I"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1587.1,"endTime":1590.07,"body":"say, these, these hooves that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1590.07,"endTime":1593.67,"body":"are replaced in with like"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1590.07,"endTime":1593.67,"body":"tapered limbs that come to a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1593.67,"endTime":1598.53,"body":"tapered point, animals with"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1593.67,"endTime":1598.53,"body":"suede backs and rounded bellies."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1598.65,"endTime":1602.88,"body":"So these are kind of parallel"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1598.65,"endTime":1602.88,"body":"lines to the back and belly."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1603.06,"endTime":1607.11,"body":"That adds to the idea of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1603.06,"endTime":1607.11,"body":"fluidity and movement. Visually,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1607.11,"endTime":1611.52,"body":"this becomes part of the look."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1607.11,"endTime":1611.52,"body":"And like I said, always rendered"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1611.52,"endTime":1613.74,"body":"in profiles. So you never seen"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1611.52,"endTime":1613.74,"body":"these animals from the front or"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1613.74,"endTime":1618.57,"body":"from behind always in profile,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1613.74,"endTime":1618.57,"body":"somewhat flat, but with a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1618.57,"endTime":1623.19,"body":"surprising amount of depth."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1618.57,"endTime":1623.19,"body":"Because of a few really key"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1623.19,"endTime":1629.22,"body":"things, one being body parts"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1623.19,"endTime":1629.22,"body":"overlap, overlapping in art is"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1629.31,"endTime":1632.52,"body":"is called occlusion. So"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1629.31,"endTime":1632.52,"body":"occlusion is when something"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1632.52,"endTime":1636.24,"body":"closer to us blocks the view of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1632.52,"endTime":1636.24,"body":"something that is behind it. And"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1636.24,"endTime":1641.73,"body":"so in these renderings, the legs"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1636.24,"endTime":1641.73,"body":"on on a horse's body, the legs"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1641.73,"endTime":1645.99,"body":"that are closest to us are fully"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1641.73,"endTime":1645.99,"body":"rendered, their their outlines"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1646.08,"endTime":1650.7,"body":"are unbroken, but the legs on"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1646.08,"endTime":1650.7,"body":"the far side of the animal tuck"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1650.7,"endTime":1656.76,"body":"behind those legs. Now, that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1650.7,"endTime":1656.76,"body":"seems obvious to us now. But"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1657.0,"endTime":1663.18,"body":"that was fundamental to the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1657.0,"endTime":1663.18,"body":"understanding of depth. And I"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1663.18,"endTime":1667.47,"body":"mean that early artists had this"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1663.18,"endTime":1667.47,"body":"figured out is remarkable. In"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1667.47,"endTime":1671.43,"body":"the Renaissance, artists were"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1667.47,"endTime":1671.43,"body":"still actively trying to figure"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1671.43,"endTime":1675.54,"body":"out the rules of overlap and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1671.43,"endTime":1675.54,"body":"occlusion. So for this to be"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1675.54,"endTime":1679.98,"body":"instinctive for these artists,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1675.54,"endTime":1679.98,"body":"like 10s of 1000s of years, I"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1679.98,"endTime":1683.16,"body":"mean, it's absolutely"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1679.98,"endTime":1683.16,"body":"remarkable. And they were also"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1683.16,"endTime":1686.19,"body":"able, these artists are able to"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1683.16,"endTime":1686.19,"body":"create depth by conjuring their"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1686.19,"endTime":1689.73,"body":"colors. So in some cases, you've"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1686.19,"endTime":1689.73,"body":"got like silhouetted animals, so"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1689.73,"endTime":1693.33,"body":"you've got a horse or a or an ox"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1689.73,"endTime":1693.33,"body":"or whatever. And it's a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1693.33,"endTime":1696.63,"body":"silhouette, it's all painted in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1693.33,"endTime":1696.63,"body":"black, there are no details"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1696.63,"endTime":1701.61,"body":"whatsoever. But in some cases,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1696.63,"endTime":1701.61,"body":"color is used very wisely to"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1701.61,"endTime":1705.66,"body":"create contours. So I've got an"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1701.61,"endTime":1705.66,"body":"image here of a horse, it's a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1705.66,"endTime":1709.35,"body":"it's kind of a wide belly looks"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1705.66,"endTime":1709.35,"body":"like a fairly plump horse. And"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1710.37,"endTime":1715.89,"body":"it's filled in largely with a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1710.37,"endTime":1715.89,"body":"with like a reddish brown color,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1716.01,"endTime":1720.99,"body":"but not uniformly. So the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1716.01,"endTime":1720.99,"body":"reddish brown color has a swoop"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1720.99,"endTime":1727.02,"body":"to it, that that is parallel to"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1720.99,"endTime":1727.02,"body":"the belly. And then only part of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1727.02,"endTime":1730.2,"body":"the of the hind leg is painted"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1727.02,"endTime":1730.2,"body":"in this color as well. And what"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1730.2,"endTime":1733.95,"body":"you end up with is, is a strip"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1730.2,"endTime":1733.95,"body":"of white at the bottom of the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1733.95,"endTime":1738.66,"body":"belly that comes up around the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1733.95,"endTime":1738.66,"body":"haunch and creates the contour"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1738.93,"endTime":1743.91,"body":"that distinguishes the the back"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1738.93,"endTime":1743.91,"body":"of the belly from those that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1743.91,"endTime":1748.68,"body":"hind leg and you create an"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1743.91,"endTime":1748.68,"body":"amazing amount of depth by"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1748.68,"endTime":1752.49,"body":"working with your colors that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1748.68,"endTime":1752.49,"body":"way, really interesting, but not"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1752.49,"endTime":1755.43,"body":"universal, I should say like"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1752.49,"endTime":1755.43,"body":"some of the cave paintings"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1755.61,"endTime":1759.48,"body":"feature more transparent"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1755.61,"endTime":1759.48,"body":"subjects. So you've got like"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1759.48,"endTime":1763.86,"body":"herds of animals, where all of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1759.48,"endTime":1763.86,"body":"their bodies overlap one"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1763.86,"endTime":1766.74,"body":"another. So these are just"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1763.86,"endTime":1766.74,"body":"outlines or maybe outlines where"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1766.74,"endTime":1770.46,"body":"the heads are shaded in this"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1766.74,"endTime":1770.46,"body":"kind of charcoal, the black"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1770.46,"endTime":1775.38,"body":"color, but the bodies overlap."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1770.46,"endTime":1775.38,"body":"So you see all of the legs, all"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1775.38,"endTime":1779.91,"body":"of the limbs, all of the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1775.38,"endTime":1779.91,"body":"swooping bellies, and it really"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1779.94,"endTime":1785.22,"body":"adds to this frenetic energy."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1779.94,"endTime":1785.22,"body":"It's incredibly impressive and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1785.22,"endTime":1788.01,"body":"evocative for these paintings"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1785.22,"endTime":1788.01,"body":"really cool."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1788.99,"endTime":1793.37,"body":"I've often"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1788.99,"endTime":1793.37,"body":"heard that the images of animals"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1793.64,"endTime":1798.71,"body":"convey a real sense of life and"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1793.64,"endTime":1798.71,"body":"movement and I've tried to think"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1798.71,"endTime":1804.59,"body":"through this through And as a as"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1798.71,"endTime":1804.59,"body":"a blind person who's not who has"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1804.59,"endTime":1809.96,"body":"not seen, you know, static"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1804.59,"endTime":1809.96,"body":"images. One way I got to one"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1809.96,"endTime":1814.7,"body":"place I got to thinking but was"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1809.96,"endTime":1814.7,"body":"imagining myself about just in a"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1814.7,"endTime":1818.48,"body":"split second before I run up a"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1814.7,"endTime":1818.48,"body":"flight of stairs. And so that"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1818.48,"endTime":1821.39,"body":"posture of being maybe on the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1818.48,"endTime":1821.39,"body":"ball of your foot and sort of"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1821.57,"endTime":1825.68,"body":"leaning forward, but can you say"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1821.57,"endTime":1825.68,"body":"something about that aspect of"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1825.86,"endTime":1828.8,"body":"the animals and how they like"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1825.86,"endTime":1828.8,"body":"they're not sitting for a"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1828.8,"endTime":1831.38,"body":"portrait, right. And the sense"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1828.8,"endTime":1831.38,"body":"I've always gotten is that"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1831.38,"endTime":1833.87,"body":"there's a real sense of life and"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1831.38,"endTime":1833.87,"body":"movement."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1833.93,"endTime":1838.25,"body":"Yeah, that and I love"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1833.93,"endTime":1838.25,"body":"your example of imagining your"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1838.25,"endTime":1842.87,"body":"body about to run. And when you"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1838.25,"endTime":1842.87,"body":"when you capture that as a still"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1842.9,"endTime":1846.5,"body":"image, either in painting or a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1842.9,"endTime":1846.5,"body":"photograph, or whatever that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1846.5,"endTime":1851.6,"body":"movement is clear to, to someone"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1846.5,"endTime":1851.6,"body":"who's, who is looking at that,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1851.96,"endTime":1855.71,"body":"even if it's just a still image."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1851.96,"endTime":1855.71,"body":"So, you know, a classic example"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1855.71,"endTime":1859.76,"body":"is, is someone standing if you"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1855.71,"endTime":1859.76,"body":"take a picture, or you create a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1859.76,"endTime":1863.99,"body":"painting of someone standing in"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1859.76,"endTime":1863.99,"body":"the weight is equal on both"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1863.99,"endTime":1867.8,"body":"feet, so they are standing"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1863.99,"endTime":1867.8,"body":"perfectly straight, it looks so"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1867.8,"endTime":1872.0,"body":"rigid, it looks unnatural. If"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1867.8,"endTime":1872.0,"body":"you shift the weight onto one"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1872.0,"endTime":1876.59,"body":"hip, so it's just the slightest"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1872.0,"endTime":1876.59,"body":"shift of the hip, you can see"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1876.59,"endTime":1879.56,"body":"that shift of the hip and"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1876.59,"endTime":1879.56,"body":"suddenly it looks more lifelike,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1879.56,"endTime":1882.38,"body":"it looks more real. And that's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1879.56,"endTime":1882.38,"body":"just with a slight shift of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1882.38,"endTime":1887.84,"body":"weight to one hip, if you've got"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1882.38,"endTime":1887.84,"body":"these animals, and again, swayed"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1887.84,"endTime":1890.84,"body":"bellies and suede back. So"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1887.84,"endTime":1890.84,"body":"they're bent in a way that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1890.87,"endTime":1894.14,"body":"illustrates an idea of movement."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1890.87,"endTime":1894.14,"body":"Often the hooves are, you know,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1894.14,"endTime":1898.16,"body":"front legs, or out and back legs"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1894.14,"endTime":1898.16,"body":"or back so that there's a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1898.16,"endTime":1901.31,"body":"stretching of these animals as"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1898.16,"endTime":1901.31,"body":"if there's almost a gallop,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1901.73,"endTime":1906.83,"body":"happening, the way that the the"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1901.73,"endTime":1906.83,"body":"overlap happens. So there's a"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1906.86,"endTime":1913.1,"body":"blurring effect of the overlap"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1906.86,"endTime":1913.1,"body":"of these animals. All of that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1913.13,"endTime":1916.76,"body":"adds up, you know, the curving"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1913.13,"endTime":1916.76,"body":"lines in cartoons, I remember"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1916.76,"endTime":1920.06,"body":"being taught I took a cartooning"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1916.76,"endTime":1920.06,"body":"class when I was a little kid,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1920.24,"endTime":1923.09,"body":"and being taught how to make"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1920.24,"endTime":1923.09,"body":"action lines. So these are"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1923.09,"endTime":1925.88,"body":"little curving lines around"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1923.09,"endTime":1925.88,"body":"someone's if someone's throwing"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1925.88,"endTime":1929.54,"body":"a baseball, you put a couple of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1925.88,"endTime":1929.54,"body":"curvy, like brackets"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1929.54,"endTime":1932.21,"body":"parentheses, you know, around"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1929.54,"endTime":1932.21,"body":"the outside of the hand to"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1932.21,"endTime":1933.83,"body":"indicate that that's a hand"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1932.21,"endTime":1933.83,"body":"that's moving."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1933.83,"endTime":1933.86,"body":"Ohhh!"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1933.9,"endTime":1937.74,"body":"I loved movement lines."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1933.9,"endTime":1937.74,"body":"And I would put them everywhere"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1937.74,"endTime":1942.45,"body":"in my early sketches. Now these"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1937.74,"endTime":1942.45,"body":"don't have that, it's not that"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1942.45,"endTime":1945.96,"body":"these have those kinds of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1942.45,"endTime":1945.96,"body":"secondary lines that are outside"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1945.96,"endTime":1950.07,"body":"of the animal. But the shapes of"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1945.96,"endTime":1950.07,"body":"the rumps of these animals has"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1950.07,"endTime":1954.09,"body":"that same kind of curve to them."},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1950.07,"endTime":1954.09,"body":"There's, there's something about"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1954.09,"endTime":1958.59,"body":"that curve that implies"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1954.09,"endTime":1958.59,"body":"movement. It's not rigid. It's"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1958.59,"endTime":1963.54,"body":"not straight, it's not Angular,"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1958.59,"endTime":1963.54,"body":"round, and curvy and moving. And"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1963.54,"endTime":1967.68,"body":"I think that has a lot to do"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1963.54,"endTime":1967.68,"body":"with why these look so vibrant"},{"speaker":"JJ Hunt","startTime":1967.68,"endTime":1968.67,"body":"and alive."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1971.27,"endTime":1973.82,"body":"We hope you're"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1971.27,"endTime":1973.82,"body":"loving the show. We really enjoy"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1973.82,"endTime":1976.22,"body":"the challenge of putting"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1973.82,"endTime":1976.22,"body":"together a new episode each"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1976.22,"endTime":1979.85,"body":"week. To ensure that our efforts"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1976.22,"endTime":1979.85,"body":"are worthwhile. We need to reach"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1979.85,"endTime":1983.06,"body":"as many people as possible."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1979.85,"endTime":1983.06,"body":"That's where you come in, help"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1983.06,"endTime":1986.93,"body":"spread the word. Maybe send a"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1983.06,"endTime":1986.93,"body":"podcast link to three friends."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1987.11,"endTime":1990.5,"body":"Post about the show on local"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1987.11,"endTime":1990.5,"body":"listservs and Facebook groups."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1990.74,"endTime":1994.4,"body":"Perhaps tweet about a favorite"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1990.74,"endTime":1994.4,"body":"episode and tag some followers"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1994.4,"endTime":1997.85,"body":"you think might like it, or show"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1994.4,"endTime":1997.85,"body":"your love by becoming a patron."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1998.21,"endTime":2001.27,"body":"The broader our reach, the"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":1998.21,"endTime":2001.27,"body":"longer we can stay Boyd and keep"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2001.27,"endTime":2004.72,"body":"afloat. With your support. We'll"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2001.27,"endTime":2004.72,"body":"be around for a long time."},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2005.05,"endTime":2008.41,"body":"Thanks for listening and staying"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2005.05,"endTime":2008.41,"body":"connected on social media. It's"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2008.41,"endTime":2012.82,"body":"what makes this so rewarding for"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2008.41,"endTime":2012.82,"body":"us have feedback or suggestions"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2012.82,"endTime":2015.31,"body":"of what you'd like to hear"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2012.82,"endTime":2015.31,"body":"about. Here's how to get in"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2015.31,"endTime":2019.18,"body":"touch with us. Our email address"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2015.31,"endTime":2019.18,"body":"is talk description to"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2019.18,"endTime":2023.89,"body":"me@gmail.com. Our Facebook page"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2019.18,"endTime":2023.89,"body":"is called Talk description to"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2023.89,"endTime":2027.94,"body":"me. Our website is talk"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2023.89,"endTime":2027.94,"body":"description to me.com and you"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2027.94,"endTime":2030.55,"body":"can follow us on Twitter at talk"},{"speaker":"Christine Malec","startTime":2027.94,"endTime":2030.55,"body":"Description."}]}