0:03  
Hello and welcome to breast cancer conversations, a podcast brought to you by survivingbreastcancer.org. I'm Laura Carfang, breast cancer survivor and founder of survivingbreastcancer.org, a nonprofit organization providing community education and resources to empower those diagnosed with breast cancer and their caregivers from day one and beyond. Hello, my friends, I'm so happy to be connecting with you this week on breast cancer conversations. I'm your host, Laura Carfang. If you're joining us for the first time, be sure to subscribe to our podcasts and receive notifications each time we come out with a new episode. To all of you who tune in every week. Welcome back. I'm so glad you're here. Good morning. Good morning and Happy Thursday, everybody. Oh my gosh, this is so exciting because I don't normally record on a Thursday and here we are together on your morning commute or just hanging out and listening to the podcast. So I'm so excited to be joining all of you this morning. So cheers. Pour yourself a cup of tea, a cup of coffee and let's dive right in. Today we talk and continue the conversation with Caitlin Edmonds. If you missed the first half of this conversation, go back to Monday. And hear a little bit about Caitlyn, her experience with egg retrieval chemotherapy, her entire experience with being diagnosed with breast cancer. But today we're going to continue the conversation with her because she actually uses a method utilizing cold caps to preserve her hair follicles so she didn't have to lose as much hair as some of us do when we go through very intense chemotherapy regimens. I learned something new. And I don't know if you guys already know this, but I thought I would share when you guys are going through chemotherapy, does your infusion nurse ever bring over like a cup of ice and just ask you to just continue snacking on ice chips. I thought they were just being kind and just like offering me ice as something to do. But what I didn't realize was that the ice chips are actually numbing your, your mouth right? Like your taste buds, your insides of your mouth, your gums, etc. And the idea is that when you are sucking on these ice chips and chewing away on these ice chips getting an infusion, it actually decreases the risk of you developing cold sores, which is one of the side effects potentially from chemotherapy. So there's a reason that right and cold caps work very similarly, the idea is that you would wear this hat or this cap of some sort that is incredibly cold and freezes the hair follicles so that while you are going through chemotherapy, it will kind of prevent the chemo from going to that part of the body and preserve the hair. We have Caitlin on the show today and she's going to talk to us about her experience with cold calves. So that further ado, welcome to the conversation. This is interesting because you know, I think when you find out that you are going to have chemotherapy, I think it's very easy for all of us to immediately think oh my gosh, I'm going to lose my hair. Right? That's like the first thought usually. And so, you know, people feel like there's an identity sometimes to your hair, or sometimes it's like, probably, you know, outside of the surgery and losing like your breasts, you're losing a very, like feminine component of yourself, right? And so, I remember googling the cold caps and reading reviews, and was not sure whatsoever, like, should I do this? Should I not do this? I was taking into account like the financial investment of doing something like this. And for me, personally, I chose not to, just because, you know, it was, it was one more thing for me that I was just like, you know what, I have too much going on just managing the chemotherapy and the diagnosis. Let's just shave my head. go get a drink after I shaved my head. Like be a rock star for a little while and I would love to hear your decision-making process of how you came. hear about this option.

4:01  
So similarly. Yes, I feel like you know, when they told me chemo was happening, I feel like my parents freaked out of like, Oh your body and it's poison and I was more like, Oh my god, I'm gonna lose my hair. I just it freaked me out so bad. That was like one of the scarier part. I mean, other than, you know, making sure I'm not like dying tomorrow. I was like, This is my like, big concern. It just like, freaked me out. It's like, like you said, like, I've always I've always had really long hair felt like part of who I was. Yeah. And I also just like the thought of feeling like, I don't know other people like knowing I was sick, like kind of like freaked me out to like, I just like the whole thing. I wanted to just feel as normal as I could. And I felt like losing my hair would make me feel like I like everyone else would know. And so, my friend like I mentioned, that was actually younger than me she had done a cold cap. She actually didn't totally recommend it to me. She didn't have the best luck with it. So she kind of said for how much like you said, the investment and how hard it is to do that she didn't totally recommend it. Because she's like, at the end, I still feel like I needed a wig at the end, like I lost way more than was I expected to. And so I had that one, you know, her opinion. And then one of my grandma's friends actually had done it. And I had a call talk to her on the phone, and she couldn't say enough good things about it. So I kind of had two ends of the spectrum. And one person told me like, I didn't really work. The other person who was like, Oh my god, like I barely lost any hair. 

5:35  
And for our listeners tonight, we just jumped right into like cold caps because this is terminology we use. But to back up just one quick second, do you mind defining like what the purpose of the cold caps are and how they work?

5:46  
And so there's different companies that do it. It's big in Europe. I think it's just kind of more becoming a thing here. But essentially, it is a kind of like, it's like neoprene or it's like a soft gel kind of hat that you wear before, during and after chemo and it's on dry ice. It's super, super, super, super cold. And basically it freezes your hair follicles so that your follicles are not absorbing as much of the chemotherapy, essentially preserving that follicle and the hair not falling out. is kind of the science behind it, I guess. So some people are like, Oh, well is that safe because you're not getting chemo in that area. And pretty much even my like, my oncologist is like, they say we don't have evidence to support that the cold caps work. They don't like necessarily recommend it. But she was like, no, it's totally safe. Like you're you don't need chemo in your hair follicles like it's fine. And that's basically like the point behind it. And so yeah, I talked to two people opposite ends, and I took both with a grain of salt, the one that I loved, it also did not have the same chemo plan that I had. So I did four rounds of AC and then four rounds of taxol and the cold cap was actually created specifically for AC chemotherapy, like I guess AC is most like, I mean, after one round, you're losing all your hair. So it's most associated to hair loss. So it was developed specifically for that kind. And so this one person who told me she had so much success, I also kind of knew well, the kind I'm getting is going to probably make my hair fall faster than it made yours or more aggressively. So I didn't know exactly but I think just given how strongly I felt about trying, I was like, I'm just gonna go for it and see what happens. I am lucky that I had family support financially, like you mentioned, it's definitely an investment. And there's lots of different ways you can go about it. And I've heard some insurances now, like, cover part or I've even heard of some Kaiser centers have ones that are actually like in the infusion centers so they like are hooked up to a chair. That'll do it, but I went through penguin cold caps. That's just who two people, both the people I knew had gone through them. So I figured I'll do that. And they are a European based company, but they had representatives in the Bay Area. And so um you upfront you go through like a huge questionnaire of all this, you know, the different kind of your treatment plan and your history and all these different things. And I remember that's kind of when I learned more about like products I was using, because they asked me, oh, does your deodorant have aluminum in it? Which at the time it did, and they're like, okay, you have to stop using that because it's absorbed, you know, through your bloodstream all the way around, and it comes out of your hair follicles, I guess, like the chemicals and so it can like, reduce the, you know, advocacy of the cold cap. And I'm reading like, that's creepy--right? Yes--Yeah, so you essentially pay to rent, the cold caps and supplies and they give you a whole other list of supplies that you need to buy and then they the company I went through how to service so you could choose to add on a cold capper to come with you to your appointment and we decided to do that for the first round and with the intention of this person will come and teach my friends and family how to do it and you have to change it every 20 minutes. You have like four caps and they rotate on dry ice so they have like levels in the cooler because they have to be a certain temperature in order to work. And so basically you're checking the tent you have to take the thermometer check the temperature of it if it's too cold, you have to sit there and rub it if it wasn't cold enough yet to put it back in there and like layer with more dry eyes it was you know, big process and then you know, it's wrapped around your head super tight in a certain way for it to work. And so our intention was how come that first day teach everyone how to do it. And it will be an ongoing thing. If you like it just was so overwhelming. I was so sick from the chemo so every time they changed it I had to run to the bathroom to get sick because I was, you know, the anesthesia and all that. It's also just a lot with it. Like I said, I mean, he was the entire time was like, What do you do for that whole time? Like he was like working, he was taking the temperature and doing all that stuff. So my family decided you're just going to come every time. Like, it's just easier to have you do it, you're the best at it. He did it really, you know, my family, by the end of the day was trying to do it. He's like, you're not doing it tight enough. It's not going to work as well. So we ended up bringing him on and keeping him the whole time, which was great. It was a huge, huge help. I told again, that's also an extra cost you have to pay for so I totally understand that. It's not you know, an option for a lot of people, but I'm grateful that it was, you know, for me and that I had that support to make that happen. Because I definitely feel like for me, it was worth it. There were times I questioned it for sure because it sucks.--Yeah.--But it was worth it for me in the long run.

10:54  
Absolutely. I mean even like the price for wigs using real hair is like out rageous I remember I got like a prescription for a wig. And I think it was close to like $2,000. And that was like with insurance supporting it. And I'm like, I like, I don't know, I just, I miss having my long hair. I'm trying to grow it out now which is coming along, which is really great. But I think at the time, I was just so overwhelmed by the financial burdens of everything. I'm like, you know, I'm gonna get a couple cute hats. And or like little caps. I was also lucky that I was going through all of my treatment in the winter. So it was very easy just to kind of like wear my beanie like all the time. So that was fine for me. While you're working through chemotherapy?

11:39  
I was yeah, um, I took off so I had chemo every other Thursday. So I would take off Thursday, Friday, Monday, like 100% I was off because the AC I mean, by the time I got home from that appointment, I mean, you couldn't have paid me a million dollars to stay awake. I was just out for the count for three days, like dead asleep, and then that Tuesday and then the whole time until Thursday, I would pretty much I was back to work full time. The first few days coming back a lot of times I would leave in the afternoons and come home and like work from home. Just to kind of almost make myself relax, I felt decent through chemo. And so it was easy for me to just keep going through my normal routine, but you know, my doctors kept saying that you need to slow it down. You need to be careful. And so I kind of left everyday, like two in the afternoon and that was like, go home work. Take it easy, so that I wasn't overdoing it. Um, that was pretty much my like routine through chemo. Yeah.

12:44  
And did you tell your co-workers that you were going through this?

12:47  
I work for a very, very small company. And so it's pretty much like my boss is the owner of the company and then I was full time we had kind of off and on we've had a few other full time employees. And I was very open with everything. I mean, I shared it on my social media so if you knew me in life, you knew what was happening. And my boss was I mean, I couldn't have asked for more support there. I mean, she came to my first oncology appointment like that's not because she was worried about work like she was worried about how she can support me and make sure that you know, she's being a good friend and boss and, and she bought me a laptop right away so that I could work from home when I needed and she reassured me from the beginning you know, your job is here, if you take a year off, your job is here, and she was very, I mean, huge and making me feel like I don't have to worry about that on top of everything else

13:38  
Because that is such a huge stressor to you when you know you're worried about do you need to go to work. If you are able to get paid time off from paid leave or being on disability where you don't necessarily have any income coming in and then potentially having your job being terminated because it's such an expense for the employer like, it just like makes my blood boil that like we're just kind of in this society to where we are so grateful to have such lucky employers with benefits where you know, down the street you know, someone else could be in a completely different predicament.

14:11  
Yeah, exactly. So that was great. And that made it easy and you know, to feel like I could rest I needed to rest but I also I wanted to feel normal I wanted to keep working and I felt like she was also really you know, respectful accommodating of basically just trusting me and letting I let her know what worked and when I needed to rest and when I didn't I work in events and weddings. So I just worked in the office during that time. I didn't go to our actual events because I was like, there's no way I could do that. I mean, just energy wise, it was not happening aside from being you know, aware of exposure to other people and so many stuff like that, but um, yeah, so I worked pretty much full time through all of it last year as well.

14:54  
And so with the cold caps, it looks like you have like great success with that, which is wonderful news. Did you end up still losing like eyebrows and eyelashes and other hair follicles.

15:03  
And I still so even on my hair so like over half of this is extension so I'll start with that but it looks fabulous I lost over half my hair I would say so you're still losing a lot so it's again to me it was still worth it but it's definitely not something you can do and expect to look exactly the same afterwards at least for me. I think everyone's different but I still lost yeah probably over half and I didn't lose my eyelashes or eyebrows until the very end which I lost all my other hair. I mean after one round everything was gone like body hair wise um, but my eyelashes my eyebrows hung on until honestly the very very end of chemo probably around my last infusion. Which my cold cap guys like I learned a lot from him because he's talked to so many people and everything but he had told me that a lot of people that's common because your eyebrows and lashes don't fall out until the new hair starts growing and pushing them out. I don't know if that's the case but he said that's what he told me. And so I did loose I mean I don't feel like I lost like every single eyebrow, but definitely like super super sparse enough that I felt like with makeup I could like make it work. But towards the end I feel like looking back now I kind of joke with some of my friends I like see pictures and like you guys all told me that like I looked fine and I like did not look like you guys are really good at like making me feel good though because I thought I was like totally to the time and I look back now and I'm like oh no, I look like sick for sure. 

16:37  
Oh yeah, I think that's when I felt like I looked the most sick as well. And you know you're right like when you lose all other parts of your hair. I realized like how important having like nose hair is I had like a runny nose for like 12 weeks it was the worst. Like those little nose hairs do something and like the eyelashes I kept having to put eyedrops in my eyes, like the dust would just come in because you didn't have the eyelash you're just like, oh my god, what's happening? So. 

17:03  
Yeah, yeah, so I didn't, I felt like that was, you know, a couple months maybe have a lot less eyebrows and lashes but um, I also feel like it was right when like surgery was I wasn't doing anything anyways so it wasn't like the world for me I was like I'm pretty much home and like resting anyways, so it wasn’t too bad.

17:21  
Another question I'm like dying to know what the cold caps. Do you get like brain freeze? I'm thinking like if your head is so cold like when you eat ice cream too fast? 

17:29  
Yeah, um the first one. So they come up with a plan for how long you have to wear it based on your treatment. So I was having like a max dose of AC so I did an hour before chemo, I had to wear it all during your infusion and I had to work for eight hours afterwards when I got home.--Oh, wow. Okay.--And so again, that fluctuates. Give it like so I got to do a little bit less I feel like after when I was on the Taxol. So it all kind of depends, but the first one of the day that they would put on was almost unbearable. I feel like every time I show up to chemo and I'd be like, okay, it's gonna be good today like, we find. And then he would put that thing on and I was like, no one talked to me no one look at me like I'm so miserable. It's it's unbearably cold. You, you put like a maxi pad like on your forehead because if it touches your skin, it can freeze your skin and it's not I got instant really, really bad headaches. It's also really, really, really tight. Not only is it cold, but I feel like the tightness of it just I could barely open my mouth. It's just really uncomfortable. But the coldness goes away pretty quickly. You stop feeling it pretty quick. So like everyone's like, Oh, are you freezing all day? And I'm like, No, I mean, after two cap changes. I've lost most of the feeling and it was just it was fine. But it is the first one you're like, I'm gonna die. This is so cold.

18:53  
So when you went home for like those eight hours did you still have to change the cap every 20 minutes? --Yep.--Wow. Was your cap guy with you there?

19:00  
He was yeah. So he came home came to the house with us hung out. He was great. We loved me like Joker like, you know, you're part of the family now. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So he would change it. And so with AC again, it was so hard because I was so tired. So I would like sleep kind of sitting up on the couch and they would just kind of tap me every 20 minutes. I'd sit up, they change it and I fall back asleep, right? Yeah, it's the second he would take off that last one. I pretty much like just like, walked into bed and was asleep for the next three days. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, but coldness is tall. It's honestly just the longness of the day and a tight knit. Like, I mean, I think for me, the hardest part of chemo was the cold cap. That was hands down the hardest part. 

19:44  
Okay. Did you have to use like special shampoo or anything?

19:47  
Yeah, so that's a whole nother thing about the call cap. Yeah, there's lots of rules with the cold cap, mostly just to try to reduce hair loss. So you can put your hair you do save all during the chemo process you can't put your hair up in a ponytail, and you cannot sleep with like a silk pillowcase. And you have to avoid all forms of steam. So you can you have to take cold showers.--Oh my gosh.--So even if you're not washing your hair, you have to take a cold shower. 

20:21  
you are a brave woman like

20:23  
Yeah, well, I just felt like so basically you told me right like if you take a hot showers at me and you're gonna lose all your hair. No, but like, here's all the things I'm telling you that, like, promote the best success. And so I was like, I'm doing this I'm spending all this money and I'm going through this pain, like I'm going to do it the right way.--100%--I followed everything to like a tee. So you're supposed to like try not to wash your hair. You change your deodorant, and then when you do wash your hair you'd use like a sulfate paraben free shampoo and which I feel like again, at this point have changed a lot of that stuff anyways. Um, but yeah, and you'd have to be super, super gentle. Like I basically had a turn when I wash my hair. I had To turn the water just so it was like trickling and any water pressure would make it fall out more and yeah.

21:06  
Yeah so you took like all the precautions and you were like meeting the the cold cap halfway right? Like it was doing its job and you're doing your job. So.

21:13  
Like if you you know, do all this and then you take like a steaming hot shower day in it, like opens your follicles, you're gonna lose more like parents. 

21:20  
That makes sense. Yeah, what sounds like very educational that you had, like all the right tools, which is great.

21:25  
My radiologist. I think he gave me this really good analogy that I feel like made sense. And he pretty much said like, okay, so you get cancer and like basically, it's like a glass shattered inside of you. And there's like, all these shards everywhere. And he's like, so you had chemo which is what you do first, right? Like you get a towel and you like pick up all those like huge chunks and like everything out. So that's all gone. And then you had surgery, which was like getting the broom and like sweeping it all and you're like, Okay, great. Like, it looks like totally clear. Nothing's there. And he's like, but a couple weeks later, you're walking around and there's like those teeny tiny little like things that still get you and he's like, you should have gone around with dustbuster. And like all those little last pieces, he's like, that's my job. Like, I'm the dustbuster and I'm getting everything that like everyone else can't see. And it's like when he said that I was like, oh, like, this is great. Like you should tell everyone this story.

22:10  
Yeah, that is a great analogy. I love that.

22:14  
Yeah. And so he was like, given that you're young, you know, we're not trying to prolong your life. 10 more years, we're trying to prolong it, you know? 50 more. Yes, exactly. We want to be aggressive with this and so he recommended like the max dosage. So I did six weeks radiation. Yeah.

22:32  
How did your skin respond to it all?

22:35  
Um, it was pretty good actually. Um, I mean, pretty much a couple days and I feel like I could already see it getting read but it stayed pretty minimal for four weeks I would say. I was religious about the lotion. Yes. The Calendula lotion I feel like worked really, really well for me. And then I did the like Cerave kind of thick Aquaphor for stuff at night. And my radiologists also told me that surprisingly he thinks fair skinned people tend to do better with radiation and so I felt like I was pretty good through that and then my last two weeks it definitely got a little worse and then I feel like I also don't think I did it high enough. I got like one really bad burn spot on my collarbone in the last week that kind of I mean not like totally blistered, but was definitely cracking and maybe like, just when it started to get like, oh, this is getting bad is when I finished so. It was tolerable for sure. Yeah.

23:41  
Yeah, it's amazing how just like going in for like, less than 15 minutes can like wipe you out and make you so fatigued for the rest of the day. I always had these like big objectives of like, okay, I'm gonna go in for radiation and then like, walk on the treadmill and like try and get some exercise because I gained so much weight during the chemotherapy. That I was like, okay, I need to least move. And oh my god, I was like, I'm gonna walk into the bedroom and fall asleep.

24:09  
I feel like the radiation made me too tired and nothing like, I feel like I was way more tired. Mm hmm. So, but it still Yeah, like, I feel like it in general, your energy's just nowhere near totally. I mean, I still been I've finished treatment last October, and I still feel like I'm like, not always 100% back.

24:29  
Yeah, no, it definitely takes a while. And you bring up a really good point, too. So you just finished like less than a year ago? And how is the transition like post active treatment been? 

24:40  
Um, it's been pretty good. I feel like you know, I was pretty positive during the whole thing. And I like I said, I have incredible support. I've amazing friends and family and everything. So, um, it's been pretty good. I feel like it's, um, you know, there's times where you're like, oh man, like so I was triple negative, so I don't respond to any hormones. So it's pretty much the day I left radiation. They're like, okay, you're done, you know, there's no pills you're taking there's no this and it's a very weird feeling to feel like I was literally at the doctor's every single day for the last nine months. And now I'm just like, on my own. Yes, I felt super anxious, like not seeing my oncologist and I wouldn't be like, Can I come in for a PET scan like once a week like this just made me feel so much better. And so I do feel like there's just a lot of anxiety about just the change in that and not feel like I feel like people were constantly checking me and monitoring me and then feeling like no one was looking at me anymore. But I do have a great, you know, oncologist and she was supportive with and she she's seen me every three months, so I'm still seeing her pretty frequently. Yeah, on top of scans and different things I have to do too, but um, overall, I think it's been pretty good. I found you know, a few local you know, nonprofit groups that I've kind of joined in and done like survivorship workshops and things to make sure I'm taking care of myself and staying on top of it. And I feel like I do still feel pretty good but I get nervous like, some days it's all gonna hit me and I'm gonna, like have a nervous breakdown. But overall, I feel like I felt pretty good through it other than, like I said, the anxiety kind of just the change. I'm trying to go back to normal, realizing I never will go back to original normal, and then I still feel like I get just anxious about reoccurrence. Oh, absolutely. I think we all do. I like spiral. I'm like, Oh, this is it's a brain tumor. Like.

26:39  
Yes. I went into the doctor's this summer because the allergies in Boston had been terrible. And so I had this like, cough and cold for like weeks and it wasn't going away. And I was taking like the Claritin and I was taking cough medicine and Halls and all this great stuff in it just wasn't going away. So I'm like you know, peace of mind. Let me just go and and plus, right colleagues at work were like so supportive, they're like, just get the good stuff like go in and get the cough syrup and like, you know, you'll be fine. And because of my breast cancer history, my primary wanting to actually do an x-ray of my chest in my lungs. And I was like, not expecting that. I'm like, No, no, no, we do like mammograms once a year, like we're good. I'm just coming in for the cold. They're like, no, we're gonna send you upstairs and you're gonna get some x-rays. And then I got a call back. They want to do a second x-ray. I'm like, What do you mean? Like, I was not expecting this at all. Like, what did you find? What does that mean? I'm like googling, like, can you?--I would definitely spiral out of control.--Oh, yes. I'm like on Google trying to figure out like, can you use like chest x rays as a diagnostic for breast cancer, like? Luckily it was it came back on normal. They just wanted to verify because of the lumpectomy, because of all the scar tissue that it was actually just scar tissue and not something that they were more concerned about a collapsed lung or anything like that. But horrifying. Definitely. Yeah, I think that's a normal feeling even, like, this day, like some days, I don't think about cancer at all other days, I think about it way too much. And you know what I was walking into work the other day and was just like, I'm healthy. Like, when was the last time I was like, healthy? You know? And it's like, almost surreal, because you're so used to being like the patient and managing cancer.

28:21  
Yeah, absolutely. I feel like I've had that a few times recently, where I'm like, I just think of where I was last year, and how like, you know, hard it is and scary and all those things. And now I'm doing well and I'm happy and it's like, I know I deserve that. And it's good thing, but sometimes you get a little like, nervous of like, Whoa, it was like something bad gonna happen or, I don't know. It's just you can't really help but kind of go there sometimes. But.

28:47  
No, are you going to any of like the like young survivor coalition conferences or living beyond breast cancer?I know. There's a couple you're mentioning, like nonprofit to getting involved in.

28:56  
I haven't gone to any of those. Yeah, there's a couple of local ones that I've done stuff with. And I did like a six week survivorship program through one of those, we went like weekly and that was great. I feel like I got like, you know, a little group of women that we still even in the classes and it's still meet up and get together and for each other and we have group texts and emails and things. Um, I haven't done too much else. Like I said, I feel like for me, a huge lot of people said, Oh, you feel so alone or you know, that's like part of your the scariness of all of it and I again, I'm very lucky that that wasn't a fear for me at all last year, like even though yes, like no one was like, it wasn't happening to them. I still felt like, you know, my roommate who took off every single chemo day from work to come with me like she was going through it to like she was interviewed with me she saw it. I mean, I was diagnosed on February 6, by February 8, all my friends had literally booked me a flight paid for my tip. Like we were in Disneyland like we just they took me and they're like, Hey, we're here. You're not doing cancer for three days like--that's awesome--like so that part to me I didn't feel like I needed to fill as much so I haven't done too much of the I've done a few like young survivor meetup things. But overall I feel like again, I've never felt this like alone kind of feeling. And so I haven't like seeked out that as much but I've started I was got involved with like the breast cancer walk through like making strides like American Cancer Society. So I did that last year and got I'm in a wedding this year. So I can't do the walk this year, but still been involved in helping them with like their social media and different things like that. I spoke at their kickoff event a couple weeks ago. So still, you know, getting involved and doing stuff, but.

30:45  
Yeah. Love to make you like one of our ambassadors for the bay area for surviving breast cancer. Yeah, we're, um, it was on my bucket list to plan a retreat for next summer. So save the date. It's going to be on June 21, which is The weekend of June 21, which coincides with the summer solstice. And we're hoping to and get some space in Western Massachusetts which is just like beautiful on the lake do cooking and kind of keeping it small and intimate. So that way we can really like you know, focus on like connections and just wellness and all that good stuff. So stay tuned for that will be great to get you on the west on the east coast. Yeah. Awesome. Is there any topic that you would like to like conclude with that we haven't already touched upon or touching base. I love your like whole attitude. You're You're so balanced, I want to say right, you're like I want to do I want to have all the available options available to me right is that's what I'm hearing like the egg retrieval, the coal caps the like your positive energy going through all of this just knowing that you're doing the best that you can and that that satisfies you alone and I think that's just such a positive mindset to carry.

31:51  
Yeah, I feel like and I just tried to focus on like one thing at a time and so a lot of times I'd be like, you know chemo people be asking about like radiation so I'm like, no, like I have one day to time right now. And I'm just trying to like focus on what I'm doing and doing what I'm doing well, and as soon as we progress, we'll progress it'll get there. But I very much was like day to day last year even like making plans in advance, like really stressed me out. And I'm a wedding planner. I’m that planner. So I'm a planner in every aspect of my life. And I just last year, like I felt like, I didn't want to be let down with things I didn't want to schedule like a trip and then find out like, I couldn't go or couldn't do it. And so I kind of didn't do as much. Because I was nervous about like, Oh, I'm going to book this like amazing trip with all my friends. And then my doctors were like, no, you're not well enough to go or we have to change your treatment or things like that. And so I just kind of like took it day by day and I was like, Okay, I feel good. So this weekend. Yeah, let's go to this.--Absolutely.-- And that worked for me. So that's one Yeah, but I don't think there's you know, anything else too crazy that you know, we didn't talk about it. Like, you know, I used to the egg retrieval and the cold cap and all that was a big part of it. But yeah, overall, I mean, And like I said, I feel like the second opinion thing, and I mean, everyone says be your own advocate. But I've met a lot of other young survivors who found the lump themselves went to the doctor and all their doctors were like, you're too young, let's watch it for six months. Don't worry about it. And I'm so grateful that I had a doctor that didn't do that, because you probably would have trusted your doctor and why wouldn't you? And so I'm really grateful because I mean, not to be morbid, but mine was aggressive. And I'm like, I would have been in a very different situation. Had I waited six months. I mean, I for sure would have been minimally stage three, if not further. And so I'm, I mean, I just feel like you know, you do find something or something's not right, like listening to yourself. And luckily, my doctor did support that, but if they didn't, I mean, I would just say, keep pushing, keep making sure that it is normal because it's not worth

33:54  
Waiting. Yeah. Have the peace of mind be able to sleep at night? And yeah, yeah. And if it comes back positive at least you caught it and then you can be aggressive about it. 

34:02  
Exactly. Yeah. And so yeah, cuz I think that sometimes like, Oh, well what if I would have waited you know what would have happened and at least now I'm a year later and I could be here and healthy and I might not be in that situation had I not

34:13  
All the what ifs. I mean, that keeps me up at night for sure. So, okay, Lynn, this has been so much fun. I'm so glad that you were able to take the time this morning and join us on our podcast. This is wonderful.

34:27  
Yeah, thanks for having me.

34:29  
Thank you, everyone, for joining me on this lovely Thursday. I hope you have a beautiful day. We release podcasts once a week, usually on Mondays and every now and then you get a bonus like today. And I also want to make sure that you guys are aware we just started and launched our Patreon account, so be sure to hop on over to Patreon look up breast cancer conversations. And if you're enjoying the content that you hear, please feel free to support us through Patreon. I would like to acknowledge the all of the information on our podcasts are from personal experiences and are not a substitute for professional medical advice, you should always contact your medical care team. If you're looking for specific topics or would like to be a guest on our show, please feel free to reach out to me. My email is laura@survivingbreastcancer.org. Until next time, keep on thriving.

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