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- Leaders in Customer Loyalty: for those looking to deepen customer experience, engagement, and brand loyalty. Each episode features innovative brands, industry experts, and executive leaders who share actionable insights, proven strategies, and real-world experiences designed to help marketers and brand professionals stay ahead in the ever-evolving world of customer loyalty.
Leaders in Customer Loyalty, Powered by Loyalty360
#477: Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Brand Stories | Sephora’s Emmy Brown Berlind on Innovation, Value, and Building Deeper Connections
Sephora has long been recognized as a leader in prestige beauty retail. Founded in France in the late 1960s, the brand introduced its now-famous open-selling concept that allowed shoppers to browse freely and test products across brands. Something unheard of in department store beauty counters of the time. When Sephora opened its first U.S. store in New York’s Soho district in 1998, the concept was still relatively unknown. “Back then, few people knew who we were, and many brands didn't want to work with us as a newcomer,” recalls Emmy Brown Berlind, Senior Vice President, General Manager of Loyalty at Sephora. “So, we really built our business on creativity, differentiation, and the belief that beauty should be fun and inclusive, and that commitment continues to shape how Sephora connects with its clients.”
That philosophy of inclusivity and discovery has powered Sephora’s rise into the leading prestige beauty retailer in North America, with more than 700 stores and a vibrant digital ecosystem. A critical part of that growth has been the Beauty Insider loyalty program, launched in 2007. “The launch of our Beauty Insider program was part of a key differentiation that we were able to introduce to the market which led to a lot of loyalty with our clients and continues to support the growth of the business,” Berlind explains.
Welcome back to our Leaders in Customer Loyalty series.
Speaker 2:It's a Thursday, so another edition of our Brand Stories is on deck.
Speaker 1:It's great having you with us every Thursday. Looking forward to today's discussion.
Speaker 1:Today we are going to be focusing on beauty, the ever and rapidly changing beauty retail industry. Founded in France in the 1960s, sephora was one of the original brands to pioneer the open selling concept. They opened their first US store in New York City and have continued to set the pace, define direction and build deep emotional connections with customers all within the beauty industry. The way people engage with beauty continues to evolve, driven by the desire to be their best selves. Sephora has remained at the forefront. Their customer loyalty program, aptly named beauty insider, launched in 2007 and has continued to adapt to meet the ever diversifying and ever changing and rapidly evolving customer base. With consumers engaging across a wide variety of beauty brands and channels. Sephora remains committed to delivering personalized experiences and staying top of mind. Their passion for customer loyalty is evident in how they evolve the program, expand product offerings and refine the brand to meet the expectations of today's beauty consumers.
Speaker 1:In this episode, we're going to hear from Emmy Brown Berlin. She's a Senior Vice President and General Manager of Loyalty at Sephora. Emmy, thank you very much for taking the time to join us today. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing well. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Looking forward to the discussion. Always interested in talking to smart people about customer loyalty, which should be the most important facet of marketing, so this should be a great discussion For those who may not be familiar and I'm sure most everyone is. Can you give us a brief introduction to Sephora? How know? How was the company started?
Speaker 2:Of course, yeah. So Sephora was founded in France in the late 1960s with a very innovative open selling concept. At the time, you could really only get prestige beauty products in department stores. You had to go to different counters to be able to try different brands and different products, and so this open selling concept was really innovative in allowing people to browse and try whatever products they wanted without kind of needing to talk to a salesperson.
Speaker 2:And so today Sephora is the leading prestige beauty retailer in North America, with more than 700 stores across US and Canada, plus a very vibrant online and app shopping experience. We came to the US in 1998 with our first store in Soho, new York City, and the open selling concept was kind of very well regarded and people who shop there loved that experience. But you know, back then few people knew who who we were, and many brands didn't want to work with us as a kind of a newcomer. So we really built our business on creativity, differentiation and the belief that beauty should be fun and inclusive, and that commitment to that discovery process is still at the heart of who we are today and continues to shape how Sephora connects with its clients.
Speaker 1:Okay, excellent. And you look at the great success that Sephora connects with its clients Okay, excellent. And you look at the great success that Sephora has had, you know what are a couple of key things that kind of contributed to that success.
Speaker 2:Well, I think you know all the amazing brands that Sephora has incubated and developed over the years is obviously a huge part of why the brand has been, how we've been successful as a retailer. And then also, I would, you know, say that the launch of our Beauty Insider program in 2007 was part of a key differentiation that we were able to introduce to the market then that you know, led to a lot of loyalty with our clients and continued to, you know, support the growth of the business.
Speaker 1:Okay, continue to support the growth of the business. Okay, you were kind of appointed Senior Vice President in 2023. Can you tell us a little bit more about the new role, kind of what you do as kind of the general manager of loyalty at Sephora, which is an awesome title, and also we'd love to know more about how you got into the role. How'd you get into customer loyalty? It's not something that everyone always focuses on as a career, but those who do obviously have a deep passion for it. So we'd love to know a couple of things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure. So you know I stepped into this role as SVP in 2023. And so I oversee our Beauty Insider Loyalty Program. Our omni-channel promotions that we run because you know most of those promotions, you need to be a Beauty Insider Loyalty Program. Our omni-channel promotions that we run because you know most of those promotions, you need to be a Beauty Insider to participate in them. The Sephora Credit Card Program and our Sampling Strategy.
Speaker 2:So, and my focus is really on continuing to grow our more than 44 million member base and finding new and innovative ways to keep that community engaged and also continuing to have the program be exciting so that new people want to join. I joined Sephora in 2015, and I've been really lucky enough to work a lot across a lot of different parts of the business, from starting, you know, focusing on sampling programs and then leading our social organic content strategy and debuting the first Sephora squad, our influencer program. And each role that I've had has given me like a deeper connection to the Sephora client and how to connect with them to make sure that we're keeping Sephora top of mind, and so that's why this role really appealed to me is to really lead the thinking on how to deepen that connection, make sure that people stay engaged and excited about Sephora. So that's really what drives me and why I was really interested in stepping into this role.
Speaker 1:That's awesome and Loyalty360 has a pretty significant member community we meet. Talk about different challenges and opportunities in customer loyalty, how it's viewed within the organization, how customers view it. You talk about keeping your customers engaged. Can you talk about a little bit what that means and kind of how that challenge presents itself and how Sephora is in kind of addressing it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I think we want to make sure that we're continuing to foster an emotional. Really, what we really feel is important is that, you know, loyalty is about making the person feel like we know you and kind of understand what you want from us and then providing access to important benefits. So our customers we know they value convenience, they want to feel like they're getting a value from the program and also having experiences that feel tailored to them. So I think that's what we try to kind of always combine is how are we, as part of the program, delivering this kind of combination of value, convenience and experiences that is uniquely tied to Sephora? That then will hopefully keep on bringing clients back.
Speaker 1:Okay, you talked a little bit about personalization, personalized approach. You have obviously a great kind of brand, lots of emotional connection to the brand. When you look at elevating the customer experience, what are you doing with regard to kind of multi-channel or looking at the kind of the retail industry holistically, because there are some changes within the industry correct, how individuals are buying from brands and the kind of beauty and how are you looking at the changes and still focusing on the personalization?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think what we, what we're trying to do in terms of how people shop, is making sure that they have a variety of options that they can choose from.
Speaker 2:So we're leaning into these omni-channel services, such as same day delivery or buy online or pick up in store, and allowing that people or people which want to have it shipped to them, and a key part of one of the benefits of our program is that you, if you're a Beauty Insider member, you can get free shipping, with no minimum.
Speaker 2:So we're trying to make sure that we're offering our clients all the different ways they want to be able to shop with us, to make it as frictionless as possible, and that also includes you know how they want to pay, so whether it's a Sephora credit card, sephora gift cards, which are also kind of a popular gift item, and then launching new payment methods like Venmo. So we're trying to make sure, as a company, that you know that she's being given as much flexibility in as her experience, in addition to offering, you know, personalization in terms of showing relevant beauty, relevant promotional offers to our clients when they're shopping our site based upon you know, their preferences in the past. So things like that all combine together in terms of how we're making the experience as kind of tailored to the client as we possibly can.
Speaker 1:You mentioned kind of how people want to pay. It was an interesting discussion we had with some members of Local 360 last week just about buy now, pay later and how that's taking off in retail. Right, you would never think that buying a 1099 or 2999 piece of lipstick would actually be something you put on a buy now, pay later, but it's something that it's taking off. Is that something you're seeing as well?
Speaker 2:Absolutely yes. I mean we have a number of buy now, pay later options available to our clients and we definitely have seen the usage of those increase quite a bit. And I think you know, again, it's to the point of you know sometimes you want to make a larger purchase and then that you want to stretch those payments over a number of months and I think that's just part of kind of what we're trying to offer in terms of you know, making sure we're staying relevant in the industry and you know, meeting her and our clients where they want to be and how they want to pay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's definitely kind of a very consistent theme over the last few years meeting them, the customer, male, female, whoever may be in the channel they want to engage in, and also with the message and the offer and the relevance that many brands struggle with. But obviously you guys do an amazing job. When you look at value, it's a big discussion right now within the community. How does the organization find value in the program? Do the customers find value in the program? Do the customers find value in the program? Are they looking for different value, as in discounts or offers to kind of help them get through maybe some of this economic uncertainty? What are you seeing around value and maybe some economic kind of headwinds that may be presenting themselves? Is that something you're hearing more from your customers about? This whole idea of value be presenting?
Speaker 2:themselves. Is that something you're hearing more from your customers about this whole idea of value? Yes, we definitely are. I think we've known for a number of years that value is extremely important to our customers, and so we have tried to deliver that value in a variety of ways and we try to make sure that that value is really integrated into the Beauty Insider offering. So one thing I mentioned earlier is the value of free shipping with no minimum.
Speaker 2:We know that that's something that is extremely valuable to our clients. And then again, like offering those omni-convenience options like buy a line and pick up in store, is also kind of another way to offer value. But then we're also trying to offer value in gamified experiences as well, so that, uh, we have these beauty insider challenges that clients can, you know, uh, take actions and then they earn extra points to be able to, um, use for redeeming in the rewards bazaar or, if they've completed all the actions and the challenge, they have enough points that they are able to use those points for $10 off on a subsequent purchase. And so we are trying to make sure that it becomes easier for people to access the value that already exists in the program by offering these new ways for them to earn points points. The one thing that we are also working on is, you know, we have a lot of different ways that people can get value out of our program.
Speaker 2:You know, redeeming for samples, redeeming their points for other rewards and making sure that people are aware of all those ways that they can deliver value is definitely something that we're working really hard on right now. So that because we, because we know it's so important to people- yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 1:We just had a call with one of our members and we were talking about value but also kind of simplicity in the program. Right, so making sure that it resonates with the customers and they can understand the kind of the different reward options that they have, but also doing in a way that, as you mentioned earlier, right channel right time, right content.
Speaker 2:So I think there's kind of a balance to that, I would assume correct. Yeah, that's definitely true, and I think also making it, making something that's easy to explain by our beauty advisors in the store too, is an important element that we think about also, so that you know we're appropriately messaging the benefits of the program in a way that people can understand easily you know if they read it online or if they just are talked to about it in a live interaction too.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. When you look at some of the changes, obviously you can earn points in different ways for non-transactional behavior, which is good because it keeps them engaged with the brand, allows them to meet that reward threshold a little earlier. When you look at some of the changing behaviors beauty, economic, whatever it may be how do you kind of keep ahead of these shifting or potentially shifting behaviors on the customer side?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I think that we're constantly listening to our clients in terms of what they want from us, and we are trying to evolve and adjust based upon what they're telling us, you know, because really, our clients are really at the center of everything we do, and, and so that we are we're always trying to listen to them, like you know, conduct research to be able to evolve the program.
Speaker 2:I think one of the things that we've also really found is that to stay ahead of what our most valuable clients are, which are Rouge clients, you know, and they are extremely important to us, and so we know that, and they also know that they expect from us because of the loyalty they've shown to us.
Speaker 2:And so, you know, as some of the things that we've done to kind of continue to stay ahead and meet their needs are, you know, things like introducing the Roos celebration event that we did a couple weeks, like last weekend or maybe 10 days ago now weekend or maybe 10 days ago now and we had it last year.
Speaker 2:We heard feedback from our clients and so then we added additional things this year. We added a points multiplier over the weekend that they could participate in. We had a limited edition Dagny Dover phone sling bag with a minimum purchase. But we also offered more richness in the credit card rewards as well 12% back, so that our Rouges could kind of combine all of these different great benefits over the weekend to kind of show that we appreciate them and that we value all of their you know loyalty to us, in addition to kind of offering you know Rouge only product drops, which we know that they're very excited about, and and special experiences, like like virtual masterclasses with some of our, our brand founders. So that will all of those things together. I think we were kind of we we built upon what we did last year and learned and improved, and and so that's really how we stay ahead is because we're always trying to think about and listen and learn from what our clients are telling us.
Speaker 1:When you look at kind of the aspirational perks you talked about, the higher level tiers and the rouge tier, more rewarding there's a balance with that as well, right. Aspirational everyone wants to get people to kind of move up their different tiers. Some brands are seeing kind of some tier malaise in the higher tiers, right, and what can they do? Something that comes out of COVID right, when they weren't meeting the tiers, you set it up and it's a pretty big discussion right now. But how do you make sure that the tiers work? Because that's a pretty significant challenge for brands right now is making sure these tiers are aligned. Getting back to that value discussion, getting back to that alignment discussion. How do you do that with such a plumb?
Speaker 2:I think that we are always making sure that there's elements of the program that are accessible for everyone, so that it there's, so that becomes a reason to join the program in the first place, and that that first yeah, that first kind of entry point that we know is really really important to that is actually the birthday gift. And so I think, if you like talking about how we structured that program actually, you know, goes to your question actually quite directly, because what we have a birthday gift that's available to everyone, that are these amazing products from the brands that we sell. We have a birthday gift that's available to everyone that are these amazing products from the brands that we sell, and then we have a special selection of birthday gifts that are only available to our VIB and Rouge clients. Again, so we're making sure that there's this balance between what's available for everyone, but then making sure that our Rouges and VIB clients know that we value their loyalty.
Speaker 2:We value kind of VIB clients are know that they, we value their loyalty, we value kind of their the extra stuff that we know that they want, by offering them this kind of special portion of the birthday gift program that only they can redeem for it in the, in the quarter that it's available. So that's, I think, an example of how we try to balance it, by having things that are are always kind of they, they're graduated so that there is something that's, you know, available to everybody, but then it becomes additions to that benefit. Then benefit the higher tiers Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Hope that answered your question. Yeah, no, that's great. I think that it's kind of a strong response, kind of looking at customers, and you even mentioned, when you talked about listening to your customers right and using that to shape, kind of the program, the value, the direction of the program. You know you've evolved the program pretty significantly over the years. You talked about some of those changes earlier. But brands often don't use feedback in a way to drive some of that change right. It's oftentimes given lip service with the right oh, we're listening to our customers, right, we're changing, we're doing things differently but oftentimes it's not and oftentimes the customers may be giving you feedback that the brands may be receiving, feedback that they're not actioning on or even responding to. So I think that's imperative. You guys, as a brand, do a pretty solid job with regard to evolving the program. It's an award-winning program listening to the customers. What is the key there? How are you doing that so well when you listen to and evolve the program based on feedback?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think the key is being willing to take action against something that people are telling you, you know.
Speaker 2:I think another example of listening to that feedback is that we, recently, we launched the ability to redeem 500 points for $10 off in 2021 2021, I believe it was yeah and, and we heard after, since that was launched, that people that p, as like our more loyal clients, especially our rouges, wanted to be able to stack that to be able to, you know, use more points to then get a greater discount. Um, and and. So this year we launched that ability for rouges to have them be able to use a thousand points or twenty dollars off again. To kind of taking that feedback and being willing to take that action. I think is is key to being able to evolve and stay relevant. Is is kind of making sure that the organization is ready to incorporate what you're hearing and make the changes that are that are required incorporate what you're hearing and then make the changes that are required.
Speaker 1:Excellent, you talked about it a little bit. The beauty industry, retail in general, is changing right From expectations to how you engage with it free shipping, potentially different payment mechanisms. You talked about how customers are changing. Where do you see it going forward? How do you see kind of the beauty industry, the retail industry, continuing to change and evolve?
Speaker 2:I mean, I think obviously you know the how we think about using AI in beauty is is is definitely going to be a big change on the horizon.
Speaker 2:You know, one of the ways that Sephora has been really successfully incorporating that is in a tool that we have called the Skin Scan, which combines a tool that was called Color IQ with a digital skincare scan, so you're able to use this tool in our stores and then it shade matches you so you know exactly what shade of foundation you should get, but then also gives you a a tailored product recommendation based upon your skin type too, and so that not only enables a more personalized experience, but it's using this intelligence and to help really guide the the the purchase process for our clients, because what we also have heard is that sometimes beauty can feel a little bit overwhelming because there's so many different options available to you. So this is like using this AI powered tool is a great way to ensure that people are being able to kind of be better guided in a very, very personalized way to create more convenience for the client, but then also really kind of an inclusive, accurate beauty experience.
Speaker 1:Okay, and AI is obviously something that's at the top of mind for all brands and we do a state of customer loyalty paper, every research paper of our members. I'll send that to you. But AI it seems like recently it's definitely evolving. Brands have kind of an approach, a perspective. There's definitely some challenges with regard to anonymizing data. Do you use a clean room process to kind of run the platform, or using a chat, or you know more of a kind of traditionally known AI platform, or can you build it out yourselves? Access to that data is obviously very important, especially with 44 million highly engaged customers. You don't want a challenge or kind of a breach in any way, shape or form. When you look at AI, you know how do you see that going forward. You talked about it a little bit. Are there challenges or opportunities you see with AI, either from a privacy perspective, or is it going to get the message right, which is something we hear pretty consistently? Is it?
Speaker 2:going to get the message right, which is something we hear pretty consistently. Yeah, I mean, I think that Sephora is very carefully and strategically thinking about how we want to incorporate AI into the beauty journey and I think it's still super early days, but you know, the privacy of our clients and making sure that the results that they're getting is very, that is, as accurate and correct, is very, very important to us, and so we are thinking, we are making sure that any development we do kind of ties back to that core tenant of inclusivity and being able to accurately help them find whatever beauty they want to find, so that, I think, is kind of our North star overall.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. When you look at the program holistically, what are two or three things you're most proud of with regard to the program?
Speaker 2:I mean, first, I would say the birthday gift program is a huge undertaking every year to to be able to offer amazing gifts.
Speaker 2:And you know I personally always love redeeming my birthday gift each year and I think also you know the variety of options available to be redeemed in the rewards bazaar is so fun just to be able to use that to be able to discover your next favorite product. We hear that a lot from our clients that they love redeeming their points to be able to try a new product to see if they're going to want to buy the full size in the future. And then, lastly, I would say you know our biannual savings events that we have twice each year. Just being able to have this amazing discount available for our beauty insiders to be able to have them, you know, gift, use them for gifts or use them to kind of, you know, buy something that they've been hoping to be able to buy and unlocking that amazing you know kind of better access to all of the brands that we offer is also something that's a huge cross-functional effort across the whole organization that I'm really proud of Decided that we are continuing to be able to offer it for our clients.
Speaker 1:And the last question, somewhat self-serving what can Loyalty360 do to help you and your team with your customer loyalty program? Customer loyalty journey.
Speaker 2:I mean I think that the role that you play with bringing together loyalty leaders across the industry and enabling us to share insights and best practices is a huge help to us and kind of how we learn about new ways of thinking around loyalty. And so, at First of Four, being part of that community really helps us stay informed and be on top of emerging trends, and that's really critical as we continue to wanting to evolve and improve our program. And so, like I'm really looking forward to staying engaged with Loyalty360 and continuing to learn from other leaders to deliver a truly exceptional experience for our clients.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Well, now we have the wonderful quickfire round of questions. We'd like to get them to a short phrase or a couple of words. Okay, what is your favorite word?
Speaker 2:This is a little bit of a strange one, but it's prepuscular.
Speaker 1:I know that one. What does that mean?
Speaker 2:It means it's animals that tend to hunt at dawn and dusk, which I think is just kind of a. It's just a fun, a fun word to say. So I think it's a little bit of a that's. That's one of my favorite words.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I didn't have it, but that's good. I like using big words as well. So what is your least favorite word that others use?
Speaker 2:I don't know if this isn't like a word, but I always, I never, I'm like, I'm kind of frustrated when people say it is what it is, because that is a little bit of a defeatist statement in my opinion. And then, as I mentioned, like Sephora is all about creativity and innovation and disruptive, and I and I think we believe there's always a solution to a problem, so I I don't love when people just say it is what it is.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's going to make a joke and say, but I won't. What excites you?
Speaker 2:I love solving problems, so it excites me to help. You know, finding something that might be a problem or issue for our clients and figuring out how do we, how do we deliver a solution to that Like that. That's always very exciting to me.
Speaker 1:Okay, and what do you find tiresome?
Speaker 2:I think you know, I think you know things that are overly, things that seem tedious, that are kind of rote, and you have it again and again and again like that. That's something that doesn't excite me very much.
Speaker 1:Okay Me either. And again, like that, that's something that doesn't excite me very much. Okay Me either. Uniqueness is always awesome, at least in more invigorating yeah Well, is there a book that you've read that you're a big fan of, that you'd like to recommend to colleagues?
Speaker 2:Um, I, I love you know, I think good to great is a great book. Um and uh, and so I always love that book. So that's one that I think I've recommended a number of times.
Speaker 1:Okay, is there a profession under the one that you currently have that you would maybe like to attempt?
Speaker 2:Um, maybe like teaching in the future that I, a lot of my um husband's family, are teachers and that's something that you know. I think it would be fun, like it'd be really interesting, to see if I could help other people in that way in the future.
Speaker 1:Okay, I mean, is there something that you enjoy doing, a passion, a hobby that you don't often get as much time to do?
Speaker 2:I love singing, so I've always loved singing all my life, and so I would love and I wish that I had more time to sing with others. I was in an acapella group in college and so I would love to sing more, I guess.
Speaker 1:Who inspired you to become the person you are today.
Speaker 2:My grandfather was very inspirational for me, the way that he lived his life and he was very dedicated to kind of thinking bigger picture than just himself, and so that's that's definitely been an inspiration for me.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. That's mine as well. What do you typically think about the end of the day?
Speaker 2:What's going to happen tomorrow? It's mostly what I'm thinking ahead as a as a working mother. There's always like the next thing you have to do.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, absolutely. And last question how thing you have to do? Oh yeah, absolutely. Uh, and last question how do you want to be remembered by your friends and family?
Speaker 2:um someone who, uh, you know, lived their life with empathy and and was loving and, I guess, loved by others that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Well, amy, thank you very much for taking time to speak with us today. It was a pleasure uh speaking with you. It's always good uh to see someone who has great passion for the industry and the job and their customers. We often don't always get that, and so it definitely was resonant with you, so thank you very much for being an inspiration.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me. It was really great to talk with you.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and thank you everyone for listening. Make sure you join us back every Thursday for the next edition of our Leaders in Customer Loyalty series. Until then, have a wonderful day.