Leaders in Customer Loyalty: Brand Stories | How Nothing Bundt Cakes Turned a Dormant Rewards Program into an Award Winner

When Jenn McMillen began her role as Vice President of Guest Loyalty and Insights at Nothing Bunt Cakes in November 2024, she was tasked with the enormous responsibility of jumpstarting a loyalty program that was essentially dormant. 

Launched nationally two months earlier in tandem with the launch of the company’s new app, Bundt Rewards was a loyalty program in name only, as McMillen describes it. 

“We went national in September of 2024, but we literally didn't have an onboarding series, and we didn't even have offers,” she said. “So, we launched this loyalty program, and nobody did anything with it.” 

For Nothing Bundt Cakes, her expertise came at the right time. McMillen first established herself in the loyalty industry in 1998, at age 27, when she launched Blockbuster Awards, the rewards program for the iconic video rental chain, Blockbuster. 

Transcript

Welcome And Why Loyalty Evolves

0:02

It's a Thursday, so welcome back to our Leaders in Customer Loyalty series. Today is the Brand Stories Podcast. Thank you for joining us every Thursday. It's great to have you. You know, some brands build loyalty programs. Others completely rethink what customer loyalty should look like. As consumer expectations continue to evolve, the brands willing to re-examine their approach, benchmark against the best, and modernize their value proposition are the ones positioning themselves for long-term success. Today's conversation explores how one beloved brand is doing exactly that, building on a strong heritage while reimagining their customer loyalty strategy for the future.

Nothing Bundt Cakes Origin Story

0:44

Joining us today is Jen McMillan, Vice President of Guest Loyalty and Insights at Nothing Bunt Cakes. How are we doing today, Jen? Thank you for having me. Absolutely. First off, can you give us an introduction to Nothing Bunt Cakes? When and where is the company founded? What do you guys do? Sure. All right. So as I've experienced in the year and a half that I've been here, when I say I work for Nothing Bunt Cakes, I either get one of two answers. One is uh I love your cakes, or number two is who do you work for? So uh yeah, we're actually we are a billion-dollar bakery company. Um we specialize in butt cakes. So the the the shape is our signature along with our signature frosting. And um we have more than 800 bakeries. We're in 45 states, but we were founded 29 years ago. So we have been around that long. And we had uh two founders. One had the cake recipe, one had the frosting, and uh they were friends in Las Vegas. And at some point, someone said, you know, y'all should sell these cakes. And a business was born. Well, that's awesome.

Jen McMillan’s Loyalty Career Lessons

1:48

Uh, can you tell us a little bit more about yourself? Uh, I know, I know you know your background. You know, how what do you do in your current role on a day-to-day basis? What's that involved? Sure. So uh I have been around the I've been around loyalty for a long time. So, as have you. And uh remember Blockbuster Rewards, right? Way back in the 90s. All right, so that was the first big program I launched. That was in 1998. I was 27. So I am 54 and uh so being in the industry that long. Um, you know, the biggest program I think that I was known for up till this point was GameStop Power Up Rewards. So I built that and I was at GameStop for half a decade, went to Michaels, then started my own company, Incendio. But um, I joined Nothing Bunt Cakes about a year and a half ago and came to work actually for an old client. And um, we're based in Dallas. And um see what else I can tell you about about the Bunt. Um yeah, I mean, we're just we are we are a growing company. And what lured me back to client side was the fact that we are growing so fast. And so it's really fun. Fun to be back on the client side and fun to be back as a program runner. That's awesome. So when you look at your role uh in deep history in customer loyalty, yeah, what is the biggest challenge you face on a day-to-day basis?

The Franchise Challenge Of Consistency

3:08

For me, this is the first time that I have been in a franchise business. And, you know, I had the luxury of, you know, when I was at Michael's in GameStop, that a loyalty initiative was something that I could put on an operational scorecard, measure my teams against, and actually tie to their bonuses. And in a franchise um environment, which is we, which is what we are, I have no uh no control uh, you know, over um compliance, uh, you know, we do the best we can. We have you know a lot of training that goes out and everything, but you know, there's certainly um a lot of variations in our across our system in how loyalty is pitched, how loyalty is used, uh, you know, and how how customers perceive it as well. Absolutely. When you look at uh the you know, the I don't know, are you do you guys consider yourself uh retail? Do you consider yourself uh restaurant? Do you consider yourself CP? And what kind of well, what are you? Because you've got a little bit of everything, right? You have this Yeah, I mean, I I asked that question when I was interviewing and I said, it would are we are we QSR? I mean, are we restaurant? Um, you know, are we retail? Um, we we we say we're food adjacent, which is no category whatsoever. And you know, but when I benchmark, like I look at companies like Raising Canes because they do one thing and one thing well, and that is our business model as well. Okay. So food adjacent. Food adjacent, yeah. Look at your industry. There's uh change disruption happening quite often right now in in many industries. Customers are changing, expectations, millennial gen Z. You know, when you look at the food adjacent industry or the industry you benchmark against, how is your industry changing? How do you see it changing? Sure. Well, I'll tell you when I got here a year and a half ago, because research is also as part of my responsibilities.

From Bakery Benchmarking To Self Treat

4:55

I was benchmarking against companies like Crumble and Sprinkles and TIFFS Treats and Susie Cakes and you know, very bakery-focused concepts. But over the last certainly year and a half, I have started benchmarking against companies that I would call self-treat. So not only am I looking at the cookies and the cupcake people, but I'm also looking at Baskin Robbins and I'm looking at Duncan and I'm looking at Dutch Bros. And, you know, anybody like when you need a little pick-me-up, you know, where where do we fall? And so, yeah, so it's definitely become much more of a self-treat culture. And that is that's what I benchmark against. Okay. So when you look at that industry, kind of the the change, uh you're benchmarking yourself against a you know a number of different industries. Uh you talked about Dutch Brothers and that whole, the whole coffee industry is rapidly changing, right? A lot of uh disintermediation there. You know, you know, how do you, in your role, kind of respond to some of the changes, right? Whether it's for how the loyalty program operates or changes in what the customers are looking for, how are you positioning your organization to respond to kind of the changing uh you know habits uh in in the industry? Sure. I mean, for a lot of people, the first interaction they have with Nothing Bunt Cakes is with a large cake. And because we're a celebration business, I mean, that's how we were founded. And so, you know, a lot of people will turn to us for the Mother's Day cake, the family birthday cake, that type of thing. And um, so we have we have three three types of cakes basically, right? We have little three bite, uh little bite ones we call bontinis. We have a personal size cake, which is a two-serving cake, and then we have larger cakes where we have eight-inch, 10-inch, and tiered cakes. So we have a very slim um offering, but again, that makes us really focus on being really excellent at what we do. So when it comes to changing though, I mean, this is why um I'm looking at self-treat because the average cost of our buttlet across our chain is six dollars in change. And so I don't want to last time you went to Starbucks, but last time I went, I got an iced chai latte and it was an $8 drink. And um, so like my best performing email that I've ever sent out was something along the lines, like with a subject line that said, you know, last more than five sips, you know, something like that, because you know, you can get a $6 cake or a $6 drink, and you know, it's gonna last you longer. But I think that's, you know, we watch the trends a lot and self-treat is really something that we follow because that's where, I mean, we do an incredible business in buntlets. And it's because we have 12 core flavors that you'll always find in our case, but then we also do pop-up flavors, which go for two weeks, and then we also do seasonal flavors, which run for six. And uh, so our best, best-selling buttons, a stuff that really goes viral and goes like wide on social. Um, we did a Dubai chocolate uh in the last couple of months and that went crazy. We did Biscoff in the fall that went absolutely bananas. And um, so we're really good, you know what I mean, at kind of riding the trends in terms of like flavors and stuff like that. And the other thing that's changing for us, right, is that we are really attracting a younger customer, which again, if you walked into a nothing bun cakes, you know, at two o'clock on a Thursday, you might think that our customer base was really old. But, you know, you come after school and you know, we attract a lot of uh younger folks. Like we're really seeing the 18 to 25 demo really start to come up for us. And again, it's that I think it's that self-treat culture. Okay.

Defining Loyalty As Brand Love

8:19

Uh customer loyalty. You've been in the industry for a while. Uh, you know, we get the pleasure of speaking with people who are in the industry. We love to understand, you know, how they define customer loyalty, what it means to them, you know, what it means to the organization, you know, someone with your deep uh background, you know, what does customer loyalty mean to you and to nothing bun cakes? For us, it's really about brand love, to be honest. And, you know, there's a lot of businesses out there, um, you know, uh, like, okay, let's just call Sears because they really don't exist anymore. So I can pick on while I want to. You know, if you were in their loyalty program, would you really and you know you're shopping for a refrigerator, you know, would love really be something that you would apply to Sears? Probably not, you know. And I mean, unless you're a dude who loves craftsman tools, and you know, so no, no slam there. But for us, it's really brand love. And because if you love the brand, you'll choose the brand. And we do, we really talk about two things we call the double H, which is hospitality and high quality product. And those are really kind of our foundations. And because there's so many options out there, you know, again, I mean, you could go to Crumble and you can get uh, you know, three cookies for 12 bucks or, you know, whatever they charge for it, you know, or hopefully you'll make an extra stop, you know, to us. Because again, the the problem that we have, our biggest problem is national awareness. And when we look at that, we have um, you know, a lower score than we would certainly want. And so for brand loyalty for us, it's about how do I turn the data that I have as the program owner into personalized, relevant communications that make you think of us first when you are either celebrating or looking to self-treat. That makes uh perfect sense. You talk about hospitality. Uh you know, we do we interview a number of restaurants, QSR, uh, fast casual. Hospitality is a big uh discussion point, and but with delivery now, you know, they can uh impact hospitality. So there's just uh questions been asked quite often. You know, where does hospitality start? Does it start in the parking lot? If come in and see a dirty parking

Where Hospitality Really Starts

10:21

lot, yeah, I'm kind of turned off. Um, does it start with uh someone at the front desk or the you know the at the front of the store acknowledging that person? Uh hospitality, you mentioned very important to nothing butt cakes. You know, where does it where does it start? I mean, hospitality, I think honestly starts even from my end, right? With email and text messages and all that kind of stuff. And you know, speaking to a guest in a way that's very on-brand for us, and um, how we describe our communication style is like with a wink. And, you know, the word bunt uh certainly lends itself to a lot of puns. And uh, and if you ever saw my big fat Greek wedding, if you want to pronounce it bount, again, it's just it's a funny word, and you know, and we acknowledge it, right? And I again, if you would like a t-shirt that says I like big bunts and I cannot lie, I will hook you up. So let me know. There you go. But yeah, but for us, no, I mean hospitality really, it's it's everything that we stand for, and it is really it's how our bakeries look. You know, we have three concepts out there, and we, you know, we're constantly testing and refining because, you know, we had an older concept that was really kind of based on what we call grandma's kitchen, you know, with like the swag curtains and the saloon doors and all that kind of stuff. And it really was meant to be evocative of, you know, your childhood memories. And of course, you know, as the brand has evolved, you know, we have evolved the the way that our bakeries look and then we're watering and all that kind of stuff. But um, you know, when you walk into one of our bakeries, uh, you know, first of all, we absolutely want a clean bakery because it's a food business. And I mean, if you see anything that's dirty, I think, you know, again, we eat with our eyes first. And so it's got to look great. But we're serious about the hospitality aspect and we don't actually call our front desk staff cashiers or anything. Um, we call them joy creators. And that is the mindset that we want them uh to embody when you know a guest walks through the door and make their experience like just extremely positive. I mean, through all aspects of it.

Rebuilding Bunt Rewards Into Buntastic

12:14

You've talked about the customer multi-program. Uh, did you develop it, uh redoing it, uh adding some functionality features? Uh many brands struggle with prioritization of the program internally, right? They they struggle a little bit of making sure that the CFO understands it, the auditors understand it, but also the frontline employees, the marketing team. Uh, you know, what's the key to having a program that's prioritized uh within an organization? How do you how do you go about doing that? Sure. Well, let me back up a little bit because um when I started in November of 2024, I inherited an existing program called Bunt Rewards. And uh it was really a byproduct of launching an app. And so um our we're owned by private equity. And when they came in, one of the gaps that they saw in our offerings was that we didn't have an app. So we launched an app and it came with loyalty capabilities. So uh the folks that were here created a little program called Bunt Rewards and it launched alongside the app. And um, so when I was hired on, we had just gone through our national pilot and everybody had it. And um I came, I was hired uh, you know, again, to bring us up to best in class. And uh so renamed it Buntastic Rewards, which is a lot more fun to say than Bunt Rewards. And um we also, I will tell you, we launched a loyalty program. We went national in September of 2024, and nobody did anything with it. Like we literally didn't have an onboarding series, we didn't even have offers. So we launched this loyalty program and nobody did anything with it. So, you know, here I come along and I'm like, all right, I can fix this. And um, so we relaunched it as Bantastic Rewards in March of 2025, and it still was only app only. And I will tell you that, you know, peers in the industry who saw that I had joined Nothing Bunk Cakes, they were like, Why would you have an app only loyalty program? And I'm like, working on it. And uh, so actually it was only until just this January that we went multi-channel, and which sounds so crazy when you say it, because of course, you know, the best-in-class programs out there are multi-channel. And um, so we're we're just approaching the hundred-day mark where we have, you know, where you can actually check in in a bakery, you know, as well as earn uh points for your orders online and all that kind of stuff. So that's kind of the background, you know, on loyalty is uh from our journey, you know, from where we were to where we are. But um I will tell you, it is absolutely an organizational priority because, right, you know, loyalty is a tactic that fits under the CRM umbrella. And um one thing that we're very focused on is increasing frequency, which falls squarely in my camp uh and you know, my responsibility as the retention person uh on the business. Okay. You talked about the when does the first program launch by chance? The first program was piloted in May of 2024 and went national in September. Okay. So when you look at the first program, you know, what were some opportunities to improve it? Maybe some things that uh you would like to improve. Was it getting to multi-channel? Was it uh using it more to create awareness, uh making it better and more functional uh than just app only? You know, what were some of the opportunities you saw uh for the recent relaunch?

Fixing Friction With Multichannel Loyalty

15:21

Sure. Well, let me tell you a little bit about our customer base. Um half of our customer base is over 45 and half is under 45. And so any business that has an exact split, you know, a 50-50 split of their customers, it's always challenging, right? And because you know, I think about that older customer who was very uncomfortable with the app. And I used my mother as the example, and it's always like, my mother, Captain Carroll. I'm like, can Captain Carroll work this? Can Captain Carroll place an order, you know, through an app? Captain Carroll cannot uh call an Uber. So, you know, that is that is true. So uh I'm I was always struggling to figure out, okay, how can I make this good for my older guest? As part of the first program, the first wave of it, you had to attach a credit card to be able to earn points. And uh so, and again, you know, with so many people very fearful about having their um their data out in the public, um, certainly giving a credit card, you know, to a company that they would perceive as I mean it, I think the the the the best one I heard was in bakery from an older gentleman, and he said, if Target can't keep my data safe, how can I trust you? Fair point, right? And so um, you know, a couple of things that I wanted to change immediately was really work on the value proposition and increase more rewards. We had a a little bit too high of an earning chart, so it was really tough to get to a reward right off the bat. And then we also gave, you know, 500 points as a welcome gift. And if you've been around loyalty for a long time, as much as we all love our own currencies, you really shouldn't lead with your currency because customers don't know what that means yet, you know, and um you don't know what I mean. Does 500 points mean I have something free? Does 500 points mean I'm, you know, like 800 years away from a reward? You don't know. And so, you know, we changed up the reward structure, and then of course we laid in like a full CRM program behind it. And so, you know, now we look at things like when are you becoming, you know, what's a new customer look like? What's the next best step? You know, when do you become lapsed? When are you uh when when are we in win back situation? You know, that type of thing, like looking for my one and duns, like who maybe only ordered, you know, like one cake a year. And it's all that kind of stuff, you know. So we're we're still in build mode, absolutely, but taking us to multi-channel a hundred days ago has really been an astounding game changer for us. And we have seen our percentage of sales attached to members. Um, almost, we're almost at 25%. And again, we're at 100 days for the program. So it's been well received, certainly by my uh by our field teams and really received by customers. You know, one of the challenges when you relaunch a program, you know, you said you were not struggle for awareness, but you want to create more awareness abundant, you know, I think butt cakes holistically, but relaunching a program is a big challenge, right? Uh making sure they understand the program, especially in this uh era of not won't say devaluation of programs, right, but of changing the program, right, that uh may not necessarily be aligned with the brand, with the customers. You know, how do you communicate the relaunch of the program and all the very interesting things that you're doing to add value in this instance, going from a more focused app-based program to more holistically engaging that customer? How do you communicate that to the customers? Well, I'll tell you uh the number one text of the last 12 months was the one that we sent out when we relaunched Bantastic Rewards. And we used the word jugged. And um, I had to fight for it weirdly, because people are like, no one knows what that means. I'm like, yes, they do. So uh it says, you know, Bantastic Rewards has, you know, been zujed up. And uh yeah, number, number one, most open text. So that was awesome. Um, so off to a good start there. Uh, but I mean, even you know, yesterday I had a meeting with my ops team who took me through still there's friction points out there. There's still misunderstanding not only from our joy creators, but also customers. And, you know, one thing that we took away was the ability to upload a receipt. And we still have people who believe they can do it, so they're really mad when they can't. And then, you know, we still have you know our our joy creators who are telling people, oh, you know, just go ahead and upload a receipt. So I think it's gonna be a constant education. And, you know, even um this, I mean, this has been the topic of this week, which is how do we eliminate friction points? How do we do a better job on education? Because, you know, we launched the program with a full slate of uh, you know, learning and development materials. And um, but you know, again, we're we are a food business and the turnover rate is pretty high. And so, how do we ensure that we can keep getting our teams, you know, trained and up to date and you know, really well spoken about the program? Because I mean, I think when we talked about hospitality earlier, you get people who are, you know, I get a 16-year-old who works two shifts a week, you know, four hours at a pop. And how do I make sure, you know what I mean, that they're educated on exactly what the program is? So yeah, so I mean it's it's a constant challenge. I mean, I think that we will be in that cycle of uh keep trying to educate customers constantly. And so if you're subscribed to our emails, we're adding a did you know section that'll start, you'll see that in about a week. So again, it's it's always a struggle to continue to improve. And um,

Value Messaging And Faster Redemptions

20:31

but I mean, that's that's what makes the job interesting, right? Yeah, absolutely. So you you talked about um kind of the changes to the program, uh, making sure that uh it resonates. A big topic right now or a pressing topic is value, right? The economics shape recovery potentially. Uh what can you do from the customers? You one of the things you mentioned as well is that moving that first redemption opportunity up in the life cycle, which can be, as we know, very advantageous for the customer for the program. You know, what what what how are you looking at value? Um maybe some uh demographics can't uh uh afford as much as they have in the past. Uh maybe they're looking and you've got different sizes now. You know, how do you look at value and bringing that not only to the customer, but to the program as well? Sure. Um, I mean, you've been around as long as I have in this business. And, you know, uh when we launched Blockbuster Rewards in the 90s, we were one of the first retail loyalty programs out there. Because at that time, it was all just travel programs, right? The airlines, the hotels, and the car rental companies were the ones who had loyalty programs. And so I would say over like the last 10 years, the biggest sea change that I have seen is that A loyalty programs have become ubiquitous, right? You know, when your dry cleaner has a loyalty program, you know, because they're, you know, they're on Aloha or toast and they can enable that, you know, very quickly, you know, that's one thing. But it's about how to be a differentiator. And for us, again, you know, what we're seeing is that people are no longer. Holding out their rewards, they are using them as fast as they earn them. And then the other thing that I'm seeing is that loyalty programs as a whole have become more part of people's weekly budgets than they were before, you know? And so, you know, just you know, choosing, I'll just choose Dunkin' Donuts just because I love Dunkin' Donuts. But um, you know, it used to be that people would hold out, right, and save their points for a dozen donuts. And now it is, you know what, Friday I'm gonna self-treat, and so I have enough points either for, you know, a free drink, you know what I mean, or you know, an extra donut or something like that. And that's how we see our program being used as well, is that my lower point rewards where you're either getting BOGO or a free cake, you know, a free buttlet, those are the ones that are my biggest redemptions, hands down. Excellent. And you think that's kind of uh that's uh situationally uh kind of relevant just with the the challenges right now that some groups they want that that redemption, even if it's just a buttlet or 50 cents off, it makes them feel like the brands here and there and it's resonant with them. Is that what you think is kind of driving that? I do, and you know, and we're careful about how we communicate out as well because every time we so we do a lot of bonuses. We do a bonus almost every single week. And um, because you know, we have we have fun with like made-up holidays, like you know, National Strawberry Day. So I'll give you like a hundred-point bonus to come in and buy any size of our uh strawberry cake. And um, so you know, there's there's fun there. But what I'll do too, right, is you know, if I'm giving you, so like we just we're coming up on Mother's Day and um we did a 600-point pre-order bonus if you ordered your cake three weeks out. And what I will always tell you is that that 600 points is equivalent to a free buntlet. And so in every communication, I am always drawing that parallel between where our rewards start and how fast you can get there. And so that's important to me. Because again, I, you know, it's like when you get even Starbucks, right? I mean, I'm in their program and you know, you'll get this whole thing where it'll say, hey, if you come in, you know, today, you'll get 25 extra stars. And I don't know what that equates to. Is that just a pump of syrup? You know what I mean? Is that a baked good? I don't know, you know, and um, so I'm always trying to draw that parallel so that you understand, you know, how fast you can be at a reward redemption. Yeah, that that's very important too, especially if you're making changes, right? Uh because that whole loss aversion theory, right? People think you're taking something away from them, right? Uh they they react differently when you're giving them something. So reinforcing the value of the program is very important. Uh, you know, just like the banks or delta at the end of the year, they send you that nice little video. You did X, Y, and Z. But it really shows the kind of that you understand that customer, right? And that you uh that the whole idea of that reinforcing program value continuously uh is something that the great programs

AI For Timing Channels And Next Best Step

24:47

do, as you know. Yeah. When you look at AI, you know, you know, how are you looking at AI internally? Uh is your organization using it? What do you think is the opportunity for artificial intelligence uh in customer loyalty, customer experience, customer engagement? You know, I think, I mean, AI is the buzzword. I mean, if we were doing bingo, um, you know, you and I would have just gotten a space. Uh but so we're with Zeta as our ESP and also um our CDP. And one of the reasons why we like Zeta a lot is because they do, they have AI capabilities. And I'll tell you, we are not taking full advantage of what they have because we're still, we're still fledgling, right, in terms of growing our CRM capabilities and our loyalty program. And um, but I would say right now, I mean, we have an agentic relationship and you know, we look at AI for what I would consider kind of some of the table stake stuff. So right now it's really about journey orchestration, it is about timing, right? And channel choice. I mean, because you know, Mark opens emails at 6 a.m., Jen looks at text at one, you know, and so how do we get that message to each of the folks in the channel of choice as well as at the best time, you know, for that to be done. So um we're we're still early in it. I mean, I we see a lot of of promise to where we can go with it. I mean, I would love to have a fully, you know, orchestrated CRM journeys, you know, based, uh, forget business rules, you know what I mean? Let's talk about what AI says should be happening, right? In terms of next best step or what product should be featured in your email versus mine. I mean, I'm down for it, and I think it's gonna be, I think it's gonna be really fun to see where it goes. But um, you know, again, as all things, right? We just gotta be careful not to cross that big brothery line. And uh, you know, I mean, you know, I had uh I had one of those instances at GameStop, and um, you know, I was like proud because you know you gotta know where the line is so you know when you cross it. That's what my wife always tells me, but uh I don't seem to uh yeah, I don't always listen, but uh I'm trying. Uh what's the next big thing that uh you think is uh gonna impact customer loyalty, customer experience? Uh, you know, maybe even what uh what is uh nothing buttcakes looking at for the next big thing? Next big thing in loyalty, boy, um that is that's wide open, I think, because it's just it's where people take their programs. And um next big thing in loyalty honestly, I think it's gonna turn into hyper-personalization. I mean, we've been there, but when I talk about hyper-personalization, I mean I'm talking about truly knitting together all your data. And uh, you know, like with Zeta, we get 2,000 plus data signals. And so things that, you know, I don't know about your eating habits, but things that I can, you know, pick, you know, from the data set there, that'll just, you know, make things even more interesting, I think. So yeah, I mean, look, AI is definitely it's the thing that's happening right now. And I think just, you know, we're along for the ride. Um,

What Success Looks Like And Closing

27:48

excellent. Uh when you look back uh at your program, you step back and what are you most proud of? What are you most proud that you've accomplished? What are you most proud of that that the program represents? You know, you you know, what are you most proud of? Yeah. Um, I would say it's the embrace, right? The embrace of not only customers with our program and um but also our bakery teams as well, and and my organization as a whole. Um, our loyalty program was a strategic initiative for us. And so, I mean, it's great to come into an organization where your project is highly supported. And um, so I'm still, I would tell you, I'm still in foundational mode where, you know, last year we got 32 CRM journeys built. We have another, you know, three dozen on tap for this year. We're moving very fast on that one. And um, you know, I think anybody who has a loyalty playbook is gonna do is probably following the same type of things. Like I haven't introduced tiers yet because I still want a year of data from our launch in January to kind of really see where we are because you know, kind of what you alluded to earlier, right? If I set my tiers wrong and then I have to walk it back, that's where you get so much customer dissatisfaction. And uh, you know, you don't want to take something away. And I mean, we've all seen the programs out there that have not done a great job on that. So um, yeah, so for me, it is it's really about data collection, to be honest. And um, you know, I want people to fill out their profiles because, you know, the more I know about you, the better I can serve you. And, you know, one of the unique things that we have, for instance, in our profile is we ask people for a special day. And is there a special day we can celebrate with you? And you would not believe the answers that we have gotten just from that question. And, you know, there's things in there that you would expect, like, you know, the day that someone became a grandparent, the day they got their MBA, um, you know, the day that they, you know, summited Mount Everest. I mean, it's just, it's amazing. I would say the best one in there was uh someone who wants to celebrate a special day, is the day that they shot gun to beer with Dave Kroll. And uh, so that's in there, you know. And um, so for us, I just I love the fact that we have that high level of trust where someone would trust us with information about their personal life. And, you know, and we'll we send you a note. It's not a sales, uh sales communication or anything like that, but it's just an acknowledgement. And so I do, I do love that we have that. And that's the kind of thing that I want to keep growing is that relation, that relational aspect with our guests. Jen, thank you very much for taking the time to join us today. Uh, it was great uh getting an update uh on Nothing Buttcakes, uh, the new passion, the new approach, the new focus. It's always a pleasure speaking with you and uh appreciate the update. Thank you. It has been a fantastic ride. I also wanted to thank everyone else for taking the time to listen. It's great having you with us every Thursday. Be sure to follow us on LinkedIn, YouTube, and all the social media channels and check back every Thursday for a new edition of our Leaders in Customer Loyalty podcast series, the Brand Stories Edition. Additional details and links are included below in the comments section. Until next Thursday, have a wonderful day.