Welcome to the O'Brother Podcast with hosts Dan and Mike Smith , brothers from the same mother with different opinions on movies , tv , video games and more , plus celebrity interviews . Get ready , get set . It's time for the O'Brother Podcast . Welcome to the O'Brother Podcast . I'm your host , dan Smith . Alongside me is always my brother from the same mother , mike Smith . Good to see you , dan , good to see you , man . We're back . We're a little late to this one , but we're going to do a review on Civil War . Mike holding up Now . Is that the 4K ? Yes , okay , yeah . So let me just kind of run down the tail of the tape here for a second . So , civil War , not Captain America . That's a first look that we did a while back , I think we did a first look on this though , too , didn't we ?
Speaker 1Yeah , I believe we did . Actually , you're right , I believe we did . I think so We've done so many first looks . It's hard to keep track . So this came out April 12th . It's another a24 production . It's their most expensive production to date , from what I from what I saw . Wow , uh , so they put a a lot of money behind this , in term , you know , as , as related to uh , I guess , uh , well , I mean it's , it's a theatrical release , so it was out in the theaters for how long it was brief . Too long yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1Hour and 49 minutes R-rated , directed by Alex Garland . Now , I had not seen . I wasn't really familiar with his work . I know you are because of like Ex Machina 28 Days Later .
Speaker 2Speaking of Ex Machina .
Speaker 1Can you remember that this is also an audio podcast ? Yeah , I know you just do like this and you don't describe what you do , well , you usually . Oh , you want me to . Okay , so mike is holding up the physical discs of the 28 days later um an x machina who was the ?
Speaker 1star in that , again , I always forget , is she alicia vickander ? Yeah , I think that's right . I think that's right because when I look at that , I always think emily blunt , for some reason . Yeah , I don't know why , but anyways , so directed and written by alex garland , right now , 28 days later , he was just the writer on his first .
Speaker 2His directorial debut was x machina , which is real and so is dread , very much sci-fi . So lose the bifocals .
Speaker 1Oh mike , with the specs still on . So all right , let me run down the cast . You got Kirsten Dunst Wagner Mora , who many of you , like me , might know . He played Pablo Escobar in Narcos . He was great in that . Yes , nick .
Speaker 2Offerman is in this , plays the president actually , and then Jesse Plemons , who will .
Speaker 1We'll talk about so and actually an uncredited role , to point that out , a budget , glad you said it . Stephen McKinley Henderson , who very well-known character actor Right he's not on the IMDb page .
Speaker 2He's not listed .
Speaker 1He is listed . I thought the same thing . He's got a horrible IMDb profile pic . That must be it , you can't even tell it's a person .
Speaker 2It's so bad , and what was what ? His name was ?
Speaker 2sammy sammy in this yes , right so give the very , very , very brief so okay , dive into this well , it's called civil war and it's basically begins in this dystopian kind of community or state . So we're already in the civil war when it starts and it's basically about these , this gang of reporters , press , kirsten dunst and the lights probably wouldn't use the term gang , but okay no , but they're traveling to washington dc , which is very dangerous during a civil war , to interview the president without any kind of , you know , appointment or plan . They're just going right that's that's the scoop .
Speaker 1Thereafter is to get that interview with him and the film starts off with , uh , uh , nick offerman as the president making a speech . Yeah , and it's wild because you , you're sort of getting this behind the scenes . Look , he's kind of practicing the speech and right then he starts , you know , they cut to him actually delivering the speech and he's talking about different states that are seceding and things like that . So , you know , right away , as you said , like the kind of state that we're in at this point and they say , like set somewhere in the near future . You know , now Garland wrote this in June of 2020 .
Speaker 1Interesting was a much more recent . Yes , uh , you know , because it it for many , I'm sure it seems to parallel a lot of the things that are going on in in the country right now . But this was one of the things that I that I appreciated about it and I do believe it's true . I felt this from my own viewing of it is the film doesn't take sides , it's not a politicized film in that way . Right , it's just kind of present . You know , these are , like you said , photojournalists covering this war .
Speaker 2And they are set on staying uninvolved , which is nearly impossible because they're traveling through , you know , war zones , basically , right .
Speaker 1But that's their job . That's their job . That's their job in fact , kirsten duns , she at one point says something to the effect of you know , if you , if you're gonna , if you're gonna sit there and start to analyze what you're watching , what you're observing in terms of all the humanity , and trying to get into the psychology of it , you're never going to be able to do this job .
Speaker 1We just take the photos and let other people ask the questions right , exactly , you know that's like a direct quote from her pretty much yeah , I , um , I was gonna start the whole conversation off just by saying two words . Jesse plemons , I mean , this guy scares the out of me in so many roles that he plays , and here's a .
Speaker 2Here's a part that he wasn't even supposed to be playing so they and he is married to kirsten dunst in real life and we've talked about them on the show before .
Speaker 1Yes , we're both fans , both huge fans , both great actors . Yes , uh , very , very talented artists and um , they're big fans of each other . If you ever see interviews with them , they're very genuinely in love and fans of each other and each other's work . You know , which is kind of I believe they met on .
Speaker 2There's a show I tried to get you to watch , I think on Netflix , called Black Mirrors . I think that's where they met .
Speaker 1They were on no , they met on fargo oh , was it fargo ? And then they got together sometime after that . Okay , so they , they , they sort of had this , and this is I'm , this is coming from kirsten herself . Okay , they had this kind of immediate chemistry , um , creatively at least , you know this kind of creative love , and I think very shortly after that they got together .
Speaker 2So and they , they're , they're one of those couples I root for it's like I . I hope you know they survive . Right , right it's tough .
Speaker 1It's tough to do in hollywood , but yeah but there's another actor that was cast to play the part that Jesse Plemons ends up playing . I didn't know that he drops out due to some scheduling challenges . Mm-hmm , jesse is there in Atlanta , I think , at the time , with Kirsten and their family . They're together , okay . So , she goes to Alex and is like Jesse's here yeah .
Speaker 1So he reads the script , loves it , of course , and the rest is history . And now , when you see the film , you'd be hard pressed to picture anybody else in that part . No , it's relatively brief .
Speaker 2It's way way too brief .
Speaker 1It is the pivot point in this film . Yeah , way , way too brief . It is the pivot point in this film .
Speaker 2You know , the , the film , it , it , the , the , it , it gets progressively more and more tense , you know , as they get closer and closer to their destination although along the way there's a few light moments , like when they stop in this seemingly normal rural town that hasn't changed and they go into a clothing store and they you know , have this engagement with a clerk .
Speaker 2They stumbled into this utopia right in the midst of all this craziness , kirsten comes out and and says to sammy lee , says to sammy wow , I feel like what it used to be like . And he says well , you know , take a look on the roofs , you know be subtle , and you realize there's snipers and the camera just does this great garland just great , just pulls back , yeah , and then you , it's blurred out .
Speaker 1But you see two figures on the roof , like you said , that you can tell they've got , you know , weapons in their hand . That scene you just mentioned what I wrote down the line she says to sammy it's like everything I'd forgotten and then he says it's like everything I remembered yes you know , and I just one of the best interesting , the best interactions yeah , the acting was fantastic . Totally all the performances were were great performance were super powerful kirsten dunst .
Speaker 2I remember her . The first time I saw her was a film called crazy beautiful , and that's not counting her child kind of acting roles , like interview with a vampire , oh right , right where she was literally a kid and she's now at a point where I love this version of her , like she I .
Speaker 2When she was younger she couldn't have played this role . But she now in the first look I thought jesse plemmons was the star and kirsten was kind of like just an ad it and I told you I said no , she's like the central , she's the central figure and she anchors the whole film .
Speaker 1Now you mentioned , they stumble in this utopian town and then there's another moment where they it's just weird , right , because it's like time has stood still in most areas and so they stumble in this , they're driving down this road and there's all these Christmas decorations lining the road . You know , when you drive through like a light show at Christmas in a neighborhood and it's shortly after that that things start to change , which is why I said that Plemons scene with Jesse Plemons . You know you mentioned before that there's some light scenes and such , really just to throw you off the scent of what was really to come , which is , you can , horrifying when they come across this christmas shop and they're debating whether to drive into .
Speaker 1Like you say , it's like a like it's got this big banner across this winter wonderland right Right In .
Speaker 2San Diego , they used the horse racing track in the winter . They put a bunch of Christmas lights and you can drive through and around . That's what this is like .
Speaker 1Yeah , same thing .
Speaker 2So they're debating on whether or not to drive in and you can kind of sense that this is going to go bad .
Speaker 1Yeah , and this is what I don't want to . I don't want to spoil it , so I don't want to give away too many details of those scenes and things that we're talking about . But , um , that's , yeah , really , things turn and it just keeps getting more and more tense . Yeah , um , and it's , it's , it's frightening at times . It's kind of terrifying what you're witnessing on screen .
Speaker 2We're nonpolitical , we don't care what side you're on and we don't talk about politics . It's hard not to kind of reflect on modern day with this movie and in my brain there's a civil war going on , whether or not this film is good or not , like you said , the acting is top notch . Every character I liked . The story Not so much . You know , we don't . We don't get the build up and it falls short in my . The whole ending sequence , which we won't talk about , falls way short , we don't get the bill .
Speaker 1What do you mean ? We don't get the buildup ? I don't understand that .
Speaker 2Well , like as I mentioned in the synopsis , we're in the civil war . We don't know what led to it . Right , we kind of can sense it . The president is in his third term you know , right , the subtle right right , little things are that happened , but we're thrust right into the civil war , see , that's what I like , and and and .
Speaker 1Honestly , that's to me , that's good art . Right , leave it to me to fill in those blanks . I don't necessarily always want to be fed all right , the other details . I think that's what made it even more intense , because you're also how did we get here ? And right , you know , you , you tell the story for yourself . The other thing , too , is , I think it's done in such a way that this could really be anywhere . It's certainly very US-centric , but it could be anywhere around the world . And I think , at the end of the day , the story is more about the gig that these journalists sign up for and what they stand and bear witness to doing that job , than anything else . I think it was a big , it was .
Speaker 2I think it was more about that yeah then the atrocity and all the stuff that was correct around it you know , yeah , if you , if you , if you leave out the politics , which is impossible , but if you leave out the politics and focus , like you say , on these , it's basically kirsten dunst and a younger version of herself traveling , taking photographs , and if you focus on that part of the story , I'm okay with it . But when it gets political and I think the end is so kind of ridiculous , I don't think so See , I didn't buy it .
Speaker 2That's why that's yeah , and I think it was a terrible casting with Nick Offerman , because I see him and I know he's a good dramatic actor , but when I first saw him I'm like I'm going to laugh actor , but when I first saw him I'm like I'm gonna laugh .
Speaker 1Yeah , but you should . You should be past that by now because of just his performance in the last of us . Frankly , right , you know , talk about being stripped down and vulnerable and all that . And , as you said , um , most people know parks and rec in this comedic you know , guy . But but you know , there's more tragedy in comedy than in anything else .
Speaker 2I think right that actress , the young actress , bad times at the el royale , which I'm trying to get you to watch right he's in that , that's . That's what I remember I'm a little .
Speaker 1I'm a little helmsworth out , but yeah , hemsworth , I should say not helmsworth . I thought she did a fantastic job in these films .
Speaker 2She held it , she held it . She's very talented the acting's top notch , no doubt .
Speaker 1Now , the other thing , though , too , is I'm not sure if you're aware they filmed this chronologically , which is rare . They filmed this in order .
Speaker 2Yeah , no , I didn't know that .
Speaker 1They were experiencing the events as they unraveled , just as we were on screen .
Speaker 2Because you know it is sci-fi if you think about it right , because we're seeing a version of the future .
Speaker 1So whenever you're dealing with futuristic and there's no gadgets or anything , they don't go ridiculous , but that's the difference here that future isn't that it's not that far outside the realm of possibility , given the things that we have experienced in this country . Yes , realm of possibility , given the things that we have experienced in this country . Yeah , we can't speak to experiences in other countries and parts of the world , but here we can right um , and I think , given what we've literally seen in real life , yeah , I could see this playing out the way that it did .
Speaker 2I really can I . I think it was a great idea , but I think there's something just missing for me .
Speaker 1I get it now let me ask you , had that been a different casting , would that you think that would change ? It's hard to say , but do you ?
Speaker 2think that would change the president ? No , no okay , you just had trouble with that I had trouble with that and the ending of a president so vulnerable let let me just say that way was kind of silly .
Speaker 1That would never happen .
Speaker 2The ending would never happen in real life .
Speaker 1Yeah , you go back to Superman 2 . I mean , you know , I remember that president was , remember the Reagan kind of lookalike , you remember .
Speaker 2Zod comes in . Somebody tried to step in and act like they were president .
Speaker 1But ultimately I guess I should say he did step forward and say he was president .
Speaker 2That was somebody famous , wasn't it ? No ?
Speaker 1I don't think that played the president , no , maybe not , but Zod . Of course we know who played him Terrence Stamp , the great Terrence Stamp Phenomenal actor , kneel before Zod . So I thought it was really good . I highly recommend it um .
Speaker 1I fall way short there wow , how the hell do you fall short there ? I mean the , the , the sequence , the um , they call it like the car swap scene . Right , there's a scene where , yes , yeah , there's two different vehicles , one with all the photojournalists and one with a couple of friends of of um , uh , wagner , morgan , um , in fact , let's get I should have his character's name , joel um , a couple of friends of his and they're kind of like side by side and they're being very reckless and speeding , and um , and , and one of the , the passenger , and the other , this guy , tony , crawls into the their car while they're driving , while they're speeding yeah and then , um , jesse does , she says I'm gonna do it , and she goes into the car a very dangerous sequence that they filmed .
Speaker 1Right , it turns out too . I learned learned from an interview with Garland that Wagner had and I think that's the appropriate way to pronounce it , not Wagner , I think it's Wagner , like the composer , but anyways , he's from Brazil , he got COVID and so they had to shoot around all of that and then go and do some pickups , some reshoots with him once he got past that . So it was a very challenging sequence .
Speaker 2Especially if you're going chronologically and you lose a character .
Speaker 1Not to mention all the . You know how they rig these cars , like 19 cameras every angle over the shoulder , how they do that . Now I you know kirsten talked about it because she even said this could be an editing nightmare . You know which ? Jake roberts was the editor on this , by the way . We'll credit to him because it was . It was a well well edited um . The way they can take that stuff out and post , you know , with right technology today is pretty crazy , but I'm amazed that it falls very short for you yeah , uh , and again , it's definitely like .
Speaker 2The sequence with jesse plemmons is just so good . Yeah , let's not spoil that one , right , it's so good . If the whole movie was at that level of tension and story , I'd be all in which I think it is , I think it's .
Speaker 1that's the moment that it just it just goes up and up and up because you know at that point they're more than halfway to DC and things just get even more intense . You got the military involved , all these different , you know , military forces that are and meanwhile , in the midwest , they're just choosing to ignore , yeah , the news .
Speaker 2Well , we don't watch the tvs because you know that was okay .
Speaker 1If there's one thing I struggled with , it was that , yeah , because , as you mentioned , they stumble into this town that seems like untouched by all of this , correct ? They go into this thrift store and the girl behind the counter is just like he . You know , joel is like you know .
Speaker 2There's a pretty civil war going on going on .
Speaker 1She's like yeah , we just you know , choose not to like you said yeah I , that was a little bit uh silly to me .
Speaker 1I I yeah so , but other than that I bought it . I gotta say the military , the the way that they I gotta believe . Well , obviously they have consultants on the film , so , um , but I just thought the whole the tactical part of that was fascinating to watch because I could imagine that's how it would be playing out . Think about it we just talked about this film the other day Taps Right , the great movie Taps from 1981 .
Speaker 2Very underrated film when the students take over the compound .
Speaker 1Sean Penn , tom Cruise , the cast is phenomenal , timothy Hutton . And , as I told you , a very pre-pubescent almost giancarlo esposito is right .
Speaker 2Look it up . You sent me a picture and I just laughed look it up .
Speaker 1He's like in junior high school . Um , that was a similar thing there . Yeah , you know where the kids take over the military school , and that means you know yeah that was just as believable I think the story was a little tighter and stronger .
Speaker 2Uh , the acting I . That's why I'm having the civil war in my brain , because it was so well acted . That's fair . I mean , you want to praise it , but I can't recommend it because of and we're not going to go into the ending . The ending is just so you wouldn't recommend it .
Speaker 1You wouldn't even recommend it as a streamer .
Speaker 2As a streamer , if you've got it on Macs or whatever . It just came out on 4K .
Speaker 1So let me ask we always bring up the ratings on IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes , so Metascore is 75 , score 75 yeah , I'm lower than that . Okay , I'm probably between a six and a seven rotten tomatoes critics 81 audience as of this recording 70 , which I think is low .
Speaker 1I think it's odd , that's odd that the and again , I don't give much credence to right , but I but I think even as neutral as this film I believe is yeah , I believe he , I think garland achieved that . It's . I I wonder if , if people went into it with their own leanings one way I think so because it because it may not have paid off . For whatever side of that argument you're on correct . Maybe that's why we have a 70 by the audience .
Speaker 2I don't know well , I think there's people that are watching this , that are , you know , msnbc people , and I think people are watching it that are fox news people and they see it .
Speaker 1I think you can see what you want to see I agree with that I agree with that and it's like what you know one person's going to see ethnic cleansing and the other person's going to be like that's a cool war film , right ?
Speaker 2but you know the amount of guns in the . You know and again , this is not so crazy to , that's not a far fetched dystopian Right . You know fiction , that's like reality , I mean .
Speaker 1I'm trying to find , because we mentioned even the most , you know , innate , mundane sort of uh characters in the film . The performance was just great , yeah , and what I wanted to call out uh , that I picked up on and I'm pretty sure that I'm correct . Uh , let me just make sure that , oh , interesting , okay , see , a lot of these people had worked with garland before yeah , and , and danny boyle , I think , is an executive producer .
Speaker 2He did train spotting , he did slumdog millionaire , he won the academy award directing that there's a film I still haven't seen .
Speaker 1You believe it ?
Speaker 1wow and garland in him are like they were like a team now I'm probably not going to say her name , right , but she plays a . She plays one of the um press and her character comes in at the towards the very end of the film . Uh , kirsten and joel are talking to her , so they know each other . She's in fatigues , but she's got the big press pass on her . Yeah , her character's name was anya and I don't know if you recognized her at all and and again , a very small part , but it was very well performed . Her name is Sonoya Mizuno and again , I apologize if I'm not saying that correctly . She was in Ex Machina , she was in La La Land , but she's been recently in House of the Dragon playing Masaria and see if you recognize .
Speaker 1Do you recognize ?
Speaker 2I definitely recognize her from house of the dragon , yeah so , but I didn't recognize her in this I recognize I'm still . I'm like , okay , what's he talking about ?
Speaker 1very end they were at the this camp . Yeah , and kirsten and joel , remember he's telling them about some of the things that have occurred , and it's just it's them and two other journalists that are in fatigues and she's one of them , right , but I recognize the accent right away . And then , looking at her , I'm like , is that the ?
Speaker 1girl and I think she had glasses on too , but anyway , yeah it was a good performance and I just wanted to call her out because she's , you know , in house of the dragon right now . She's great in that . She's great . Oh yeah , she's phenomenal . Hey , there's . You sure you didn't pick up on this , but back in 2005 , bruce springsteen both fans , you know , I've been a fan since , you know you turn me on was eight years old . Uh , on his 2005 tour , which was called devils and dust . He was touring on that album . He would end every single show of that tour , uh , with with a song that he would start off playing on like a harpsichord type keyboard or something land of hope and dreams .
Speaker 1No , no no , and then he would , um , he would just go to the center stage and be singing pretty much acapella , and it's a song called dream , baby dream . It wasn't one of his songs oh okay , it's by a group named suicide right , and that's the song that ends the movie .
Speaker 2I thought that was okay , you know the version from suicide I . I thought the music was good through the movie and in the the under , you know the underlying it's not really music , it's just kind of uh the score .
Speaker 1The score .
Speaker 2Yeah , the score was was really good Again , so well acted . I want to . I want to say better things about it If the movie had all the energy of that Jesse Plemons sequence , it would have done . It would have been in the theater a lot longer .
Speaker 1I almost go out and say it's worth watching just for that , and not just his performance . That's an ensemble performance that is very real . It is , it's not just him and Garland filmed that they were like 100 years years . No , no , no , they were . They were all far away intentionally and they shot with long lenses because they didn't want to interrupt the kind of vibe that was going on they eventually get really close well , they're zooming in and whatnot .
Speaker 1Yeah , you know what I mean and yeah , I'm sure at some point they come in closer . But most of that was shot with long lenses and it was just .
Speaker 2I rewound it to watch that sequence again because I wasn't ready to keep going I , I , I just thought that was such a strong sequence .
Speaker 1It's so , it's just so powerful , such a strong sequence .
Speaker 2It's just so powerful .
Speaker 1It's so powerful , but again , it's so well performed by every actor in the frame , everyone , everyone . There's a couple of other more ancillary characters , but just fantastic . Yeah , that's one where I'm sure it's . It's emotionally draining , but you want to be part of that as an actor .
Speaker 1I gotta believe that's that's a dream scene for a lot of actors . You know well , here we are . I did not think we were going to be split now . This is a film I've wanted to watch since around it came out , but right , but we're just getting around to it now , and I enjoyed it .
Speaker 2Yes , but I definitely recommend it . You know I'm a fan of Garland but none of his films rate really high . I know I think he was nominated . He was . He was nominated for writing for Ex Machina and that was another film that could have been so good . And think about it . I I don't know what year that was , maybe 2015 , around there , at least I think maybe yeah yeah , I did write it down .
Speaker 2But yeah , 2015 . Okay , and to think about how he incorporated AI into that film , he was way ahead of the curve , way out of the curve yeah . But the , the there was something about the story in the end that just didn't tighten things up and I and that's what I see in civil war kind of the same thing You're saying .
Speaker 2He's a bit of a an M night no no , I wouldn't say that because I enjoy his films . And the big thing , the big announcement , 28 years later is coming . For people who know , 28 Days Later . Cillian Murphy was the star of that and that was basically a zombie movie , an apocalyptic zombie movie they're making . And then the sequel was 28 weeks later . And now we're going to get 28 years later with danny boyle and garland and it's going to be a trilogy . Well , that would make it a trilogy . No , but the 28 years later on its own is going to be a trilogy , and killian murphy is coming back as the character he played in 20 days but the most that , uh , the most that garland's involvement will be with that .
Speaker 1I think it's just maybe co-directing , because , right , he's , he's on record saying he's done with directing . He wants to really just step back and , I guess , focus on writing , be a writer yeah .
Speaker 2And he's a very good writer , and him and Boyle are partners in a producing team and they produce a lot of films .
Speaker 1Well , there you go , folks Split decision again .
Speaker 2I'm glad you liked it .
Speaker 1I wasn't sure where you'd fall , but I take your points . I mean they're fair points . Um , you know the casting offer , I get that . I get that because it's it's borderline . Jack black is the president , but not quite that silly but yeah because , again , I think nick has established himself as someone who has very good dramatic chops like you said right , um , but I but I can see where it's a little .
Speaker 1You know you're going to suspend even more disbelief , right ? Because it's hard to get him out of your head as that and at the end it wasn't necessarily him .
Speaker 2It was the way they portrayed the white house , yeah , and you know it just wasn't wasn't grounded in reality like a lot of the film was . And the last thing I want to point out is I really liked Garland's use of still photography , which was really important because that's what they were was still photo journalists .
Speaker 1It made me want to dust off my 35 .
Speaker 2Yeah , and there's so much that can be said in a photograph A lot . Sometimes you can capture more in a photograph than like when you're watching video . You see everything where a photograph you let you get to fill in and I think you mentioned that during the review is you've you filled in a lot of the background on how they got to this point yeah , and I think anybody watching this is probably going to see it through their political lens yeah , I thought it was going to be a little slower because of the way that it started out , that first 20 , 30 minutes maybe .
Speaker 1But um , but no , then for me it just and again after the plemons sequence .
Speaker 2I was just , it was , it was riveting , I will say I I wasn't bored through it like a recent movie I saw in the theater . But um , I don't know . I just wish it had a tighter yeah story at the end . Yeah , hard to argue with the , so again split decision .
Speaker 1But yeah , I see where you're coming from with your point . So well there . It had a tighter story at the end , yeah , hard to argue with . So again , split decision . But yeah , I see where you're coming from with your point . So well , there you go . I don't know what do you do with that . It's a you know right .
Speaker 2Well , you watch it , you make up your own mind .
Speaker 1There's a civil war going on right here between two brothers . Anything else to say about Civil War ? No .
Speaker 2If you do see it , or you have seen it , drop us a comment , let us know , what you think . Where did you land ? Thank you ,