Michael Johansson: A life of global connections, mentorship, and the power of education

Welcome to Season 5 Episode 21- Featuring Michael Johansson 

Welcome to the first ever episode 21 in the show!!

Joining me on this historical episode, is my good friend Michael Johansson! 

Former Director of International programs at Ole Miss, his story is one like no other!

At 76, Michael Johansson doesn't just have stories – he embodies a living history of cultural connection, mentorship, and boundless curiosity that defies age barriers. From his humble beginnings on a small rented farm in Illinois to becoming the director of international programs at the University of Mississippi, Michael's journey reveals the extraordinary power of staying engaged with life and people across generations.

The conversation takes unexpected turns as Michael shares remarkable experiences – teaching in Japan and Russia, living in a cave off the African coast, digging out an erupting volcano in Iceland, and becoming a full member of Phi Beta Sigma (a historically Black fraternity) at age 60. These aren't just travel anecdotes but profound lessons about breaking down cultural barriers through genuine human connection.

What stands out most is Michael's perspective on mentorship. Rather than viewing it as a formal arrangement, he demonstrates how simple curiosity and genuine interest in others creates natural mentoring relationships. "Take an interest. Ask questions," he advises, sharing how conversations with grocery baggers about their education dreams or connecting international students with resources exemplifies his organic approach to guiding others. His personal philosophy – "honor the ignored" – reveals a commitment to reaching those often overlooked.

Despite calling himself an "old man" at 76, Michael's vibrant engagement with contemporary culture (his last concert was rapper Big K.R.I.T., and he enthusiastically discusses current films) showcases how curiosity keeps us young. When asked about his legacy, his answer cuts to what truly matters: "How did I make people feel? When they think of me, will they have a smile?" This episode isn't just a conversation – it's a masterclass in living a meaningful life through connection, curiosity, and genuine care for others.

Ready to challenge your perspectives on age, mentorship, and what makes a life well-lived? Listen now and discover why connecting across generations might be the most important thing we can do for ourselves and our communities.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to Season Five, Episode 21
• 3:01 Michael's Journey: Farm Boy to Educator
• 8:10 Travel Adventures and Cultural Connections
• 16:32 The Meaning and Impact of Mentorship
• 29:29 Wisdom from Mentors Past
• 35:07 Advice for Young Adults
• 43:42 Legacy and What Truly Matters
• 54:28 Closing Thoughts and Future Conversations

Transcript

SPEAKER_02: 0:23

Welcome to the Dalen show. Woo! What's going on, y'all? How are you doing? Hope you're having a blessed day, blessed week. Welcome to episode number 21 of season number five. Never said that before. Never have I done more than 20 episodes in the first four years of the show. But like I said from the beginning, if you're new, this is the fifth year of this, the Dalen show, my podcast. And I thought I'd do things a little bit differently on the five-year anniversary show. We're extending the number of episodes, conversations, interviews, people that we're having on the show this season. Don't have a particular number set right now. I may go into the 30s. Uh, but enjoying this journey, it's been a heck of a run for season five. I've had so many great people, so many great conversations. Uh, and I've loved every single second of it. So if you're new, please hit that subscribe button. Uh, it is free, it takes one second to do, and it allows us to continue having conversations like this moving forward. So, if you're new, welcome to the Dalen show. I'm Dalen Flowers, and today I'm joined by my good friend, Mr. Michael Johanneson. Woo!

SPEAKER_01: 1:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:30

First of all, my friend, thank you so much for joining me. And uh, how are you doing? How's life treating you right now, man?

SPEAKER_01: 1:36

I'm doing great, and I feel like uh when I lived in Asia, the rain was always a good omen, and we haven't had rain here for weeks and weeks and weeks, and so that little background is not sound effect, and so I'm happy for that. But I'm so more germane to the discussion. I'm so pleased to be with you today. I got, I didn't tell you, I got to catch some of your conversation with my friend Dr. Ethel Skurlock. And uh, my goodness, your listeners, people who are just tuning in for the first time, they have so much to benefit from your conversations. They're always very insightful, and the fact that this is your fifth season, and I'm honored to be the first 21. Okay, let's hear it for 21. Yeah, keep it going.

SPEAKER_02: 2:24

I appreciate it so much, man.

SPEAKER_01: 2:27

Well, um, where do we want to start? Should I give you a little bit of a piece about myself?

SPEAKER_02: 2:32

Yeah, if you don't mind, for people that are watching and listening that may not know a lot about you, uh, just kind of briefly give them uh a little bit about yourself, where you're from, what you do in your life, and of course, just some things you've also been able to do to get you where you are today, my friend.

SPEAKER_01: 2:47

I would guess right now I feel compelled to uh because it's somewhat difficult sometimes to determine age, and some people don't like to bring that up, but I am a 49er, I am an old man, I've been around a while, so I've had many lives. I'm 76 years old, so let's start there.

SPEAKER_02: 3:06

Don't look it by the way, and I've told you that before, but you look really good for your age, my friend.

SPEAKER_01: 3:11

Thank you. And I do not feel it. Uh, if you're blessed with a semblance of health and you take care of yourself, and one of the things we're gonna get into when we talk about the subject of mentorship is uh be around so that you can uh live a long life and a productive life and a life of value, and that helps. But also it's mental too, isn't it, that you stay interested and engaged in people. But we'll we'll hit that up in a little bit later. But a bio about myself, I was born on a small farm that we rented in Rockford, Illinois, which is about an hour outside of Chicago, rural area. Uh, without giving too many details, we had very little money. My father passed away when I was 16, so I helped run this rented farm, really struggled. If anyone wants to, I think it's an important part of my story to say that you know, I washed dishes, worked in factories, painted houses, picked corn in fields. I mean, on and on and on it went. Not glamorous jobs to make it through college. Um, then my I'll just say what my degrees were in. They were in education, uh, everything from adult continuing education in California. I got a degree in special education, it's a couple of uh things that I worked on out there. I'm just gonna say that was a highlight working in a prison for young people. Uh Crips and Bloods in California. I lived in California 10 years. Um let's see. And then I lived around the world. I did a lot of traveling. I taught in Japan for a while because I had no money other than to I love travel, so I decided if I taught English in places where they don't normally speak English, there are often jobs, and that's a great benefit for people who love travel when they're younger or even older. Uh taught in Russia uh in the former Soviet Union when it changed over to Russia. Um lived in a cave off the coast of Africa for a while. That would be a whole other story. Um helped dig out a volcano in Iceland when that erupted and just recently went back there. So travel has been a big part of my life. Yeah, but today um I then I became the best job of my life was director of international programs at the University of Mississippi from 1999 to 2009. And because I'm an older gent at 65, I was lucky enough to retire. So my pre-retirement years were all involved in education and particularly international education. As you can see, I taught overseas, but then this beautiful job came to me at the university where I worked with incoming internationals. I was not with study abroad, so I welcomed internationals and tried to integrate them into our um environment and our culture. And now, from something that happened to me as director of international programs, intersected with my post-retirement years. I was invited by Dr. Thomas Wallace, then vice chancellor for student life, to join the Phi Beta Sigma uh fraternity. And for those of who don't know what that is, that is a storically black fraternity, one of the great honors of my life to be entrusted as a full member, not an honorary member, but a full member. And I was initiated in the fall of 2007 as a much older adult. And to this day, I mean, I just hung up with a couple of brothers this last week, a few brothers. It was wonderful. So there's always these reunions. So that is key in merging me into my retirement years. Remember, this was 07, then in 09, I retired, and so I saw what's for me in post-retirement. I won't go into I did some fun things in film in New Orleans. That was fun on some films and movies and TV shows, but as an extra and small roles. But what's really occupied a lot of my time, and I think Dalen, what you and I decided we should focus on, and I think it's an important focus, is mentorship. And so with becoming a much older member of the Sigmas and how I was warmly welcomed into the fraternity and into that brotherhood, it not only included a lot of those young men, but also when I go to the grocery stores, remember when they had young men who bagg groceries at Kroger? Are you old? Are you uh old enough to remember that? Not so much anymore, but I would always uh now moving into and then I'll I'll give myself a breath and you can ask some questions, but seek out young people, ask them questions. So are you do you go are you high school? Are you in college? Oh, you'd like to study accounting. Well, I know the uh head of accounting at the University of Mississippi after I retired, even before. And then, you know, it's not about necessarily monetary help, but also what can I do? Hey, I'll meet you there, and let's see where maybe a young man would be too shy or wouldn't know the ins and outs of going to school. So I that's just I'll end with that one specific example of mentorship and how we as older adults uh can um share the benefits and be helpful and uh keep that wonderful contact with young people, which I think has helped keep me young.

SPEAKER_02: 8:53

Yeah. Um, you know, for people maybe wondering, how do we even know each other? Well, we met in 2023 uh at an event that I attended, and at that event, uh Dr. Don Cole was speaking. And if you don't know his story, I highly advise you to learn about him, read on him, uh, watch documentaries about who his who he is as a person and the the journeys and battles he's gone through his life. Uh and him and Mr. Johanneson here are very close. And I went up to Dr. Cole that day and and introduced myself and told him who I was, and I have a podcast. I think that was my sophomore year of college, so I was probably doing season three that time, and and of course, met Mike as well. And so that's the relationship we have and have just continued to stay in touch and and connect since that that day. Um, but look, I I think I'm gonna kind of bind a few things with you that we kind of talked about. But starting, I want to go into your your travel. I I think it's so important because off the top of my head, where you were telling me just so many of the places you've lived and been. In one of my journalism classes last week, we were discussing the stereotypes for Asian women in TV, uh, the stereotypes for Latinos in TV. Uh and I thought something in my head when you were talking about those things, just on how people, and I think especially in my peers and what I see in this country, how we stereotype things only based on what we know. And I'm not saying that those stereotypes are wrong, but those people know what they know because of the life experiences they had, the way they were raised, and the cultures that they've been around, the places they've traveled. But when you're able to travel, you're open to different things, you learn different things, you see life differently. So I kind of want to start with that with you. Based on the places you lived all across the world, the people you've met, the cultures you've seen, the things that you've been able to do in different places, how do you kind of vary life differently in terms of possibly thinking if you weren't able to live and travel across the world the way you've been able to in your life? How do you kind of see and relate and have conversations with people based on the travel experience that you've had in your lifetime?

SPEAKER_01: 11:06

That is such an insightful, phenomenal question because it has truly changed my life. I guess that wouldn't be so surprising, but I think it's informative to say how it's changed my life. Before I start, I just had lunch with John Cole. So he's he is a dear friend, and I'm so glad now that you know him too. And you're you're right. Uh, another story for another day. What a great life and a great man. I'm so honored to know him as well. Well, travel. So I always feel uh I do a lot of writing and I I've I've been in journalism as well. I left that out. I worked for a California magazine for several years and wrote cover stories and did photojournalism. And when I would write stories, the most interesting thing is to tell a story about rather than say, well, traveling enriched my life and I got to meet great people. How about um it's be it's 2010 and it's right before the Arab Spring in 2011, and I get invited back to visit a young man who got a Fulbright. He was from Egypt and he went to school at Tugalu. And somehow I was at a conference and I met him. Brilliant. Now he's developing hydrogen-powered cars under Grenoble. Just went back to visit him and his family this year. So full circle moment. But let's go so you can see how those relationships continue. But I did mentoring, uh you could say, with him, and he says that about me. I don't say that in a boastful way, but he was like someone out of his out of water and out of his culture. He's a Muslim in Mississippi, uh, an Egyptian. And so now I'm going to give you a specific story. So I go back to Egypt, and um they say, Oh no, you can't stay in a hotel. So they live in a kind of a remote village in Egypt, and they they live in a quite a big house. I would not say fancy, but substantial and very nice, uh, big family. And he was in his early 20s, and they put me in a room, and I go, Wow, this is such a nice room. He said, Oh yeah, well, this is my bedroom. I'm and I said, No, no, I can't stay in your bedroom. And he said, Oh no, this is well, let me tell you, every Muslim, see how I say that? Every Muslim, how all the wonderful experiences I've had with that culture in the Middle East, they feed you till you can eat no more. They insist upon you staying in their most special, they would have it no other way, or they put you up in a hotel. And what I think, Dalen, is it breaks my heart to think of the suspicious, uh, sometimes cruel, sometimes totally misunderstood ways in which people look at people of other cultures in a fearful way. I think there's only two emotions, really love and fear. And out of fear comes skepticism, distance, hate. And so um, I bring you that example, and then do you know, I stayed there three or four days. Everybody was they're very gestural and they hug and they were so thrilled, and they had never met an American, most people. And then they would come and ask, Why are you in a war with uh the Middle East? This was during the Iraq War. They had all these questions, and so you do a flip and you get to learn uh about how other people think about us and how people look at, you know, we think in America sometimes we're well, not always. We realize maybe some of us don't think we do no wrong, but there's a lot of people are so proud about America. So, and we should be, but we also have made other people in other countries look at us, and you learn in different ways. So that would be just one story of one family, and then since then he developed quickly uh solar-powered small irrigation systems for small farms, and then he went on to France to develop and work for a major company, automobile company, and develop hydrogen powered hydrogen-powered automobiles. So, how about that? We learn from a variety of things. He has two adorable little children, and I'll finish with this. And he said, Michael, my father passed away two years ago. He said, I I want my boys to be you to be a part of my boys' life, and that's actually what brought me there. But when I was there, he said, Would it be oh what would you like them to call you? Would you like them to call you uncle? And you know, in the black community, oftentimes we get called uncle if we're not blood relatives, but then he said, also, could they call you grandpa? And I said, Well, which would you prefer? That seemed like too big of an ask. And he said, Well, they need a grandfather, and you know, what are you gonna say? I mean, that story is so touching. So the relationships you build, Dalen, what if I never traveled? What if I never opened my heart and my mind to I have to that curiosity of traveling? So it it kind of ties in with mentorship, but it also ties in with expanding your horizons and building bonds with people all over the world. It you feel connected, and this is this is making our own way of making peace in the world.

SPEAKER_02: 16:57

Yeah. I I love that, and I love at the end that you say, what if I never travel? And and I think about that myself a lot. I've never had the chance to go out of the country yet, but I've traveled to a plethora amount of states within the United States, and it is not only opening to just see different things, but also learn different things. Like I I never take the the ability to learn for for for granted. I I think every day you're able to learn something new. That's a blessing. Some people aren't able to do that. Um, and when you are traveling, you get to see just how different life really is in just another state. And and that can be in when you're in Mississippi, absolutely, and just how different, you know, I'm from Arkansas, it's just how kind of different things are in Arkansas compared to Mississippi, even though they're right next to each other, or just how different things are in Alabama and Mississippi, even though they're right next to each other. So I love that you say that because I think that the the way of thinking has become very lodged in into a certain way for a lot of people. And I love to hear your perspective on that. Um, I want to shift to the mentorship side really quick, and just directly asking, when you hear the word mentorship, what does that look like for you? You know, I think it it has a lot of different definitions or ways of movement for some people, but for you personally, when you hear the word mentorship, what is what what do you think of? How does that look in your life?

SPEAKER_01: 18:23

I know it's it's sort of a grand word and a formal word, but if any person your age to my age or beyond, I guess there's a few people older than me are still around here, but here's what comes to me immediately when you say that. Take an interest. Ask questions. When I was director of international programs, and I find an international student from maybe one country, I brought an international student who was had been a Buddhist monk from Laos, and he stayed with me a while, and he was the only Laotian. So I guess I did my part on that piece for that one student. But oftentimes we'll I I'm just saying that almost as a joke, but I'm just saying that's the way it happened. But uh when I lived in Laos and he got a full scholarship to Old Miss, and that's how I got to Old Miss. So what a blessing. But to the your question of take an interest, walk up whether and and and and not to do it artificially, but to do it like I use the example of uh the young man begging groceries or the young woman at the checkout counter. I always try and in an unobtrusive as possible, but informal way. Wow, how are you doing today? Oh, so and I think as you get older you are given a little bit more permission to ask a question that maybe a young man would ask a young woman or a young man like so, like a question like, so are you still in school here or you know, and then it moves to, oh yeah, so oh you're studying like today. I just I spoke to a young man, there you go, uh, who uh was doing a job, helping me out with something on an errand, and he's studying HVAC at Northwest. And so we got in a whole conversation. He was sort of like taken care of, he was good, he had just moved from Virginia, but I suppose most people wouldn't have gotten that kind of conversation about him because it was sort of a business-like thing. But we kept talking for quite a long time. But oftentimes, Dalen, it'll be, yeah, I always wanted to go to Miss or yeah, or I thought I started there, but the general ed was too difficult. Well, do you know you could go to community college and do your jet end there? And it'd be so much cheaper, and then you could transfer because I've been in the field of education and I taught there. I kind of focus on that piece. Maybe if I had been working in landscape, I could say, well, you know, we need some work there. As a matter of fact, I just talked to somebody in landscape and they were talking about help they need. So you kind of keep your radar out. It's not like, well, let me see. I've I've lived a long life, and how can I help you improve your life? No, that would not, that would be pretentious, that would be assuming too much. And I learned, I need to learn who that young person is before I can, I would even want to approach with even a mild suggestion. But and again, if I start talking about education without making this too long-winded, I would say, wow, so are you, did you ever want to go back to college, or would you like to, you know, because oftentimes they'll say, Yeah, well, I'm saving money. That's why I'm working at Kroger, or that's why I'm doing this job, or that's why I need to work, you know, I'm selling burgers right now. But so I think that opening and for older people or retired people to think, well, I've got to join an organization, I think that is a bit of a cop-out. I think that is we must take an interest in our young people. I am so blessed to have lived a long enough life. I never became rich from my profession, but I made enough where, well, I got a Muslim Egyptian in Grenoble, France, who wanted me to come see his two kids. And then when I come there, he put me up in an Airbnb, and he would not take no for an answer, see? So what goes around comes around. Yeah. And um ask questions, take an interest. How's that for a starter?

SPEAKER_02: 22:48

I love it. Um, and kind of still basing on that same topic, I want to ask because one of my favorite things to get asked, you know, people will ask me, what is my podcast or what is it about? But deeper down, I love the question of why do you do it? So I want to ask you, I ask you what does mentorship look like for you, but why is mentorship so important for your life?

SPEAKER_00: 23:25

It's funny because I'm pausing because I'm getting a little emotional. Um which I think is okay. I think that's a good sign that it makes me emotional.

SPEAKER_02: 23:37

Um has been filled with people.

SPEAKER_01: 23:46

Yeah, it's just it's just us talking here. No, I mean, do you know what I was thinking about? Do you know what made me emotional is I keep hearing about uh especially older men who are so have no friends, and I mean both with young people, young men and older men, they're they're two very dangerous categories of even uh being the suicide rate is higher. Um and the reason why I got emotional was kind of a uh both a flip of how much it's enriched my life, but also how uh what older people, and again, it could be any age with mentorship. So let's I just want to keep I'm as an older person, I'm speaking, how much it le they're leaving out of their lives, how much they're missing out, I should say, of all the great relationships they can be having. And I realize I'm a pretty outgoing personality, I'm very verbal, I'm a writer, I'm I've done a lot of public speaking. My my undergraduate major was English, so I've always loved words. So that's been an easy space. But um look at Dr. Don Cole. Let's pull him out because we already talked about him, and everybody listening to this podcast probably knows who he is. I'm maybe uh he knows everybody, but he's a math person. Um, he's a math genius, really. People don't know so much. He listens to MIT math pod math programs, mod math podcasts for fun. So um, but still, he he communicates. I'm just I I guess what I'm trying to say is, well, I hope you're hearing that. Well, heaven agrees, heaven agrees. I just I hear the same thing outside of my home system okay, and so yeah, we're probably not too far apart. So the idea is uh emotional because there's so much uh the original question was why? But wait a minute.

SPEAKER_02: 26:04

What why why is mentorship so important for you?

SPEAKER_01: 26:08

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it gives so much back to me and the relationships. And again, I probably am not your normal 76-year-old in the sense that I remain, and I'm not trying to say this as a good or bad thing, but I remain so interested in like current film. Uh, the last film I saw is Love Brooklyn, which is amazing. I I invite everybody to go see it. Um, uh, you'll have to stream it because I don't think it's in theaters. My last concert was Big Crit. Like, okay. Um, and not that I know so much about him, but it was uh it was lovely. And those of people who are unfamiliar with rap music, he he uh repeatedly uh called himself a country rapper, and it was just a lovely gathering. That's where I had met up with some of my fraternity brothers. Um but I'm not saying maybe everybody can love all those things, but I wish people would keep a more open mind and not be so judgmental. You know, you know the Bible, Dalen, and it talks about you know, how can you see the sty in his eye when you have a log in your own? And judgment blocks up so much, and it blocks us up about other people's religion, other people's races, other people's cultures, uh, other people's sexuality. Um, I hate, I always hate, I always feel like I must reach out to the other, to the people that are treated wrongly. Um on my Instagram, I have three words honor the ignored. And so maybe that is a little piece of my simple philosophy, which is reach out and karma or you sow what you reap, or whatever words you want to use, it all comes back to you. And I got a friend like Dalen in my life. If I hadn't, however, we started talking, you know, we just started talking and visiting, and you are such a light to the world. Uh I just to the to think of the people that I know that are half my age, a third my age, you're missing out, folks, if you don't speak to young people and you don't see you'd be surprised what you could do, even if someone needs something fixing in their home and someone needs a job, you know, which I've done that too.

SPEAKER_02: 28:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 28:50

So that I guess that's the way I'd answer that.

SPEAKER_02: 28:53

Okay. Um jump back to you're my age, 21. Who were some of your mentors in your life throughout that time in your life? I and I say this because when I was young, my mom can attest to this. I'm sure she'll she's watching this whenever this comes out at this moment. Hey mom.

SPEAKER_01: 29:15

You got a great son, that one right there.

SPEAKER_02: 29:18

Um, and I will tell you, I was just so ready to graduate and get out of my mom's house and be on my own, and then college hit. And college has been, you know, I'm senior now, so it's been the best three and a half, going on four full years of my life, but I've also been through so much and I've learned so much. Um, and so I asked that question because I think this age is one of the most transitional, pivotal, most developmental years for a person. So I I asked if you could go to 21, who are some of your mentors in your life and how do they kind of shape and mold you to become the person that you are today at that time?

SPEAKER_01: 30:01

Wow, do I love that question? Because I love going back to that time. And if you can think I have a lot of energy now, wow. I was so active and and it I I'm gonna go to my 21st birthday party. Which is the last major birthday party? 21 is such a happy that was the last big birthday party I guess I had. And it was get it was um perfect question because it was with my my people that I looked up to. It was thrown by my mentors. We went to I was it was I was still in Northern Illinois, I was still teaching adult educations. I was teaching people who came from different places, including the South, basic education like GED, but also adults who didn't even know how to read or write. Talk about a learning experience. The first day I sat in the chair in the class, and they said, Well, when's the teacher going to come in? And then I stood up and I walked to the front of the room, and they said, No, no, you sit down, you're pretending. You know, and I looked like I was 10 when I was 21 then. And so who did I look up to? Those people that I taught, but that birthday party was my aunt, who I grew up next door to. That was my father's sister, my mother, who, and my cousin Marge, who was all three of those women, women, had lost their husbands, my uncle, my father, and my cousin's husband in the same year. And that year was 16. I lost my father. I lost my uncle that I grew up next door to in the small farm, and then my dear cousin, uh, who was female, and they were all like in their 50s, 60s. Um, so I don't know about you, Dalen, but I was very influenced by, first of all, these men in my early part of my life, and I can't leave out who was my main mentor until I was seven. And I know that sounds a little bit strange, like when you were seven. I remember so much about my early life of my childhood, and that was like my older brother, David, the son of the uncle and aunt next door. I mean, there was just a little compound, two houses. That's my grandfather's house, and he died of a heart attack when he was 20. Yeah, very weird. He had a heart. We didn't know about that, and this was in 1957. So I lost my older brother, who I was seven, he was 20. I'm giving you a lot of info here, but I can't leave that name out, David's name out, because I think of him almost every day still, and how I learned about manhood and being kind to younger people, being kind to children. He was so kind to me. He never yelled at me, included me in so many activities. This little kid with all his other friends, you know. And then uh, so at 21, we had a big birthday party out at a lovely restaurant. And so that's those are the people that I think of when I was 21. And they continued to guide me, these wise women, uh-huh, who all had different things. Like one was artistic, one was matter of fact, one was political. Uh, and her father had run uh for mayor of our city. I mean, it was I would I was benefited greatly.

SPEAKER_02: 33:38

Yeah. Staying in this age range a little bit, and I guess I'll base this maybe on the ages from like 16 to 22, because 16 is like that moment where you're you're sweet 16, you know, some people they may start driving at that time, you're initiating that way and towards becoming 18 and in that adult world. And then 18 is you know, graduating high school or you're into the real world, it seems like a little bit, and then some may go to college, some may not, but then as well within those years, if you're in college, those are the college years. And then 21 is just, you know, it kind of feels like you're at that point of adulthood, actually. Uh, and then 22 is a little bit more of getting into the actual lifestyle of it. So if you could give a piece of advice to people my age, but as well from like the ages of 16 to 22, I know that may be a little bit broad, but what would you want to tell somebody? What advice would you want to give to people in within my age range about just life? Something that you will really, really, really want to tell people to in hopes of that they take it and continue to remember, use it within their entire life.

SPEAKER_01: 34:44

Wow, you have such deep and interesting questions. Um, well, for me, I'll I'll just I'll just go through real real quick on this one. Sweet 16 was tragic 16 for me, where I lost my father, my uncle, and my cousin, those three men within nine months. So I immediately went to work. I had to like help with the farm, crank carmel tractor, and all that stuff. So I'm gonna I'm gonna get to advice here in a minute, but I'm gonna kind of tell you that I went a kind of rebellious and wild, which was, I think, as I look back on it, hard on my mom, because I mean, I think I was very immature and uh I partied a lot, and uh and then all of a sudden I went to college. I got in college. I didn't, I thought I was gonna be a house painter or something because we didn't have any money. And I got some kind of a scholarship and um which paid for my tuition, and then all of a sudden it's like college, it's adult time, right? Like maybe for you too. And it was like such a flip of the switch. And high school was I went to a high school where I was probably one of the poorest kids in the high school. It was a new school, it's where all the rich kids went. Um, some famous people, I'm not gonna go into who went there. I couldn't name it, but, anyways, uh uh it was all clicks, and I thought is it was just such a turnoff to me, and I felt out of place and I rebelled. So then college, it was like amazing, and it was open, and it was like a very political time, the Vietnam War, and I got very involved in protesting the war, and uh the first uh Earth Day happened in 1970, and I graduated in 71. Um, and some uh famous uh civil rights heroes came to speak. I I won't go into all of them, but um I got involved in that. So, such a maybe a different flavor for a different time. So, what could I I wouldn't advise too many people about the way I live my life, but now looking back on it, although college I think I did a lot better, I would say um what gave me the most um uh that I've carried with me was I had a uh a friend who was one of my best friends, and I learned about art from him. Well, he went on to do to New York to do something, to work with maybe one of the most famous artists of all time. He did the first show with Jean-Paul Basquiat, who whether you people can look up Basquiat, but now his he passed away at an early age, but his paintings sell for over$100 million now. But he was very influential in the art world. So I I I I again I would say go out of the so that stayed with me, and I and it stayed friends with him. We're um with a long break in between when he was all of a sudden getting famous. But go and do the extra things like what you're doing with your podcast. Uh how about go to an art class you wouldn't go to, go to a dance recital, go to hear Ricky Briquette's drum concerts that he has on campus. Um, I just met somebody today at lunch, another person who joined us at lunch whose son is in that drumming group. Um do don't just do your books. And then as a as a mentor, uh kind of a thing, you can do as a student. Hey, go meet an international student if you're an international, right? Well, let me see. I don't know if that got blocked. But go um, yeah, get outside your comfort zone, I guess, and just don't do what you're used to doing. And I I congratulate you, Dalen, because you you usually did a sports show, and now you said you're talking to people like me, and we're really not talking about sports, but I hope that works out for you, where uh you can um keep doing that too. See, that would be an example.

SPEAKER_02: 39:00

I appreciate that. Um basing on things now, what are your some of your current involvements in terms of mentorship, working within the community? Uh I know you're retired, but but like at this point in your life, what how do those things still intact your everyday lifestyle? How are you still kind of being involved in a way that is still fulfilling the things that you want to do for your life?

SPEAKER_01: 39:29

Well, I mean, I get calls. I I I was so sorry my phone was off yesterday because I do maybe you did this too, where we I silenced my phone. And so a brother I met at a Net Roots Nation conference. I won't go, it's a political conference for every year. It's one of the biggest ever done every year, and that was in Detroit, and I met this young brother, so much younger than me. Well, my goodness, I think he when I met him when he was in his 20s, I asked him for directions on a street corner in Detroit, and we talked. And so, why am I bringing that up? Because I got a phone call from him yesterday. I'm gonna have to call him back. That relationship, and I've actually done his radio show since then. Uh, been back. Uh, actually, we did that remotely. So I guess what I'm saying is these I don't know if I want to call that a mentorship, but we talk. He's a big reader, and he does interviews with a lot of the entertainment and the black culture music and entertainment in um Detroit, which is fascinating, of course, being Detroit. So I guess the horizon line, I I I love that it continues to expand and become more spacious. It doesn't have to be hurried, but in the last few years I've gotten really more and more into looking around and saying we have one of the most amazing blues scenes uh in the nation. And you and I shared uh one night out there with another friend of mine, Kenyon, at uh Foxfire Ranch, plug for Fox Fire Ranch every other Sunday, and uh archiving some uh videos. I'll share, okay, one quick cool story. A man named David Stern. He's archived blues musicians for decades. Uh he told me a story. He's now in Los Angeles, but when he was in this area, he we talked about Cedric Burnside, who just recently won a Grammy, uh, and he's right in our area for uh traditional blues album. He was also in the movie Um Sinners, the amazing new Michael B. Jordan movie, and uh Cedric was. And so we talked about, he said, Oh, yeah, I knew Cedric when he was in diapers. Tell him I said hi. So through that relationship, we sort of like, how does this all work again, Dalen? But we kind of started, we saw we shared interest, and I said, Hey, you've got this archive of decades of music and photography. And I'm very happy to say that I connected him with our archive at the University of Mississippi, and he was jumping, going, should I give it to the Smithsonian in DC or Old Miss? And I said, Well, if you give it to Old Miss, there are students studying documentary film at the Center for the Study of Southern Culture, etc. And he said, I love that my students could use my materials. So I hope I'm not announcing this too early. Yikes. Oh, it's okay, I guess. But anyways, I'm pretty sure he's decided he's gonna, well, he said he's gonna donate that to the university. So interest kind of is you know how they do with you, Dalen. I'm sure, don't they like you meet somebody, and then that leads to something else and another path, another journey where there's reward and new adventures in retirement for me.

SPEAKER_02: 43:08

Yeah, I love I'm I'm grateful that you just mentioned that last port, that last point right there, actually, because um my mom, for as long as I can remember, would always say it's not about what you know, it's about who you know. And although you do need to you do need to know some things, obviously, but it is a very impactful thing to be able to know a lot of people, but to connect with a lot of people as well. And you saying that thing made me think of something that I want to ask you. Um, throughout your travel experience, uh your education experience, what in the midst of all that makes it so easy for you to connect with people? Because I ask that is we we just kind of click automatically when you first met. And I'm an introvert naturally, you know, I'm not just uh an outgoing person like you are, and just you know, coming up and it with all radiant energy. I'm kind of I'm kind of more closed off a little bit, and but once you get me talking, I will. But my one of my favorite things people will tell me is is that for a young person, and they don't have I haven't just been hearing this now, but for years, I'm people always tell me that you're really good at holding conversation, and you're really good at you know just focusing in conversation, listening, and having great conversation. So I asked throughout your travel, throughout your educational experiences across the world, throughout the connections and people that you know, how have you been able to kind of make these connections with so many people? But as well, not just make them, but keep them and have actual real bonds and friendships with so many people that you know.

SPEAKER_01: 44:53

Yeah, I mean, I think you already know the answer, but I think it's good to talk about it because you do it and the reason you're doing these podcasts. Um it's just kind of an insatiable curiosity and interest in other people and in life in general. And like, wow, like I mean, I was just down in New Orleans with one of the greatest uh musicians uh I ever met. I'm gonna name drop Kyle Roussel, R-O-U-S-S-E-L. He has a new album called Church. And then he said, Why don't you stay another day and see me play with a jazz preservation band? Dalen, the jazz preservation band started in 1961. It's the most prestigious so they have a small group of musicians called All-Stars, and so he plays piano for them every Tuesday. He's I'm glad I know him before he wins his first Grammy. And I won't even get into how did it was sort of like some kind of exchange over over um I had made some comment, I think, about his album, and he saw that. You know, you start to forget. I mean, it's sort of like all that is based on curiosity and interest.

SPEAKER_03: 46:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 46:12

And so, Damon, um, and then I I I've got to mention like Gary Burnside and Ken Burnside just came out with two albums this last month. Our pride of our Hill Country Blues, of our region. And, you know, I've gotten to know these guys just because uh kind of a partial answer to one of your last questions is I've also got involved in archiving with the miracle of an iPhone 16. Got to look at the 17 now, but the 16 is pretty amazing, and just documentarying some of their music. Like there was a vinyl uh for the vinyl record store, and he gave a mini concert. And you know, no one else that will be a record for all time because I recorded that. So I I realize I'm jumping around a little bit, but let's just say specifically, let's me try and answer your question is to either you're passionate about learning, and it is a passion, about learning from other people, curiosity of other people, and um, and then if you do it enough and you call describing yourself as an introvert, and I get that, you know, being more reserved, that what brings you out, and I I'm sure that, and I'd like to ask you has this podcast maybe been a useful tool for you to bring yourself out and to be able, as maybe a more introverted person, I'm gonna take your word for it, although you're very uh conversational with me and and very outgoing, but uh I can see where you're you could be reserved that using a podcast allows you the structure to communicate with people because I can tell you have that same passion and curiosity about people, or you wouldn't be doing that. When you say that's what drives you as well, or is there something else?

SPEAKER_02: 48:08

Yeah, I think that I I have a curiosity about learning as much as I can. Like it truly is a blessing to be in college, and sometimes there are those classes throughout your college journey where you're like, I don't need this, or I don't really care to take this. But in essence, it's all still very cool to be able to learn these things and know about these things. And uh I'm a history minor, so also learn about I'm taking a history of West Africa right now. So I'm taking classes, so it's interesting to learn about things like that that I could have never even imagined me even considering thinking or learning about. Uh are you loving that course? I am. I I think it I took one uh entire African history class last semester. Um, and it it just opens your your dialogue up. But I will say that in the essence of being an introvert, I I think when I when I say that as I'm quiet, I'm I'm shut off in terms of a normal standpoint, but when I do get going, I do get going. But I I think for me, I like get my energy back by just being on my own or having some me time, and and I focus that towards more being an introvert. But this show, even before I was doing, you know, anyone, and when I say that in terms of people outside of sports, even before I was doing people that was, you know, outside of sports, when I was just doing people in sports, it was not about me. It was not about, you know, myself and what I do. It was about learning these people's journeys, their wisdom, hearing their advice, and the way their lives have gone to get them and make them the person that they are today, which is so intriguing to me. Everyone has a story, everyone has a battle. And one of my favorite things ever, I saw a few weeks ago, there was a picture on Instagram, and it showed a overview shot of people walking on a sidewalk. And it was, you know, above this woman, it was like she just lost a baby, and then above this man, it was like he just became an uncle. And then uh the next lady, it was like she just got a promotion. Then someone down there, you know, at the bottom of the picture was like um she just you know got a new car, etc. etc. Everybody's going through something. There's everyone has a story in life. You literally don't think about it like this, but there are stories between every single person that you walk past every single day. And you may never have a conversation with those people, you may never see them again, but there's so much life and history and education within everyone you meet. And I think that's that's um amazing. I think that's intriguing to be able to have these conversations with people and not just focalize it on one thing, you know. I didn't want to be able to do this and have athletes on, but focus on okay, you just had a great game, you threw three touchdowns, and you you know, you went 20 for 25. That's cool. But there's a different element and love I get from people, but as well for me to depict and learn and gain information about what makes you you and how have you become the person that you become. So I agree with your statement. I think that one of my favorite quotes ever, I literally have it on a shirt, it says, Be curious, not judgmental. I'm a curious being. I'm a curious human being. I love learning about everything. So I agree with your point because there's so much to learn, and I think that's the beauty of life. There's so much to learn, and you can never stop learning no matter how old you get.

SPEAKER_01: 51:39

I'm never bored. Are you? Are you ever bored? I'm not, and sometimes and I like my alone time too, by the way. You wouldn't, but I I I love it. I also I never feel lonely, but you know, maybe that's one of the benefits that we both have of there are uh people in our lives that yeah, are important.

SPEAKER_02: 51:59

Yeah, I want to ask you something because I'm really intrigued to hear your answer on this. I'm gonna make you think about this as well a little bit. So get your thinking. All your questions have made me think so.

SPEAKER_01: 52:08

I I better like double up here.

SPEAKER_02: 52:10

Uh, I I want to know if if you could have dinner with five people, dead or alive, wow, who would join you at your dinner table?

SPEAKER_01: 52:20

Well, I know the first one because I just I've talked about this recently. The greatest, Muhammad Ali.

SPEAKER_03: 52:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 52:30

I am there's gonna be some others, but that's top of mind because um not only did my mom and I listen to the fights when they were on radio, and you I I it's hard for people to appreciate how what a pariah was, how disliked he was for dodging the draft, not going to Vietnam, becoming a Muslim, changing his name, and being so oh, he's so full of himself, and people didn't. There were so many people. Now, I'm talking all races. There were a lot of people uh where he went through a very tough spell. I loved all of that. I loved, I was such a fan, and oh, would he be fun to talk to? Oh my gosh. Okay, Muhammad Ali. I'd have to put Jesus in there. I mean, I want to know what's up with Jesus, what's going on? What was tell me about your life? Um wow, five. It's like such an abundance. I've um I'll I'll come up. Um I'm trying to think of music because I love music so much. Um I don't want to throw it toss away too quickly here. And then history. Oh, wow, that is rich. Um, you know what? I'm curious. How about this? Um I got to spend time a week, uh, off and on through the week. I was so lucky with the Dalai Lama. And how about Buddha? I like to hear what he was like. That beautiful, it's all about the peace. And then Mohammed. I want to know about Mohammed because just think these spiritual leaders that have billions of followers. Is all that stuff about you? Like, did you all were you all all you guys? You were like amazing, right? So now I got four. Well, Mohammed's really special, isn't he? Um, let me do five for fun. Let me do a fifth one. I feel like I I'm I'm I'm leaving somebody out in music and entertainment. I'm a huge wow, I'd have to choose between John Lennon and Prince. Um Prince was such I've been to his his place in Chan Hassan in Minneapolis and shortly after he passed. Genius, uh musical genius, so creative. And it's I saw him three times in concert, and then I go to John Lennon. I guess it'd be I it'd be Prince. So don't judge. I think those are good choices. I think those are good choices.

SPEAKER_02: 55:23

I love that table. Every I usually only ask people three uh. Oh, thank you for giving me five. Yeah, because I knew that you would, you know, kind of take that and and run with it. And I think hearing your five people was gonna be a little bit more interesting than three, but I I love that. It I always say that that that question that I get asked every time when I have someone on is kind of like the most dynamic question that I'm able to ask because it kind of depicts who you are as a person and the people that you maybe envy a little bit, uh, no matter how it is in what format, but I think it's important to kind of hear that that question because it gives you a little bit of thinking about you know what's kind of important in your life. So I love that answer, honestly, man.

SPEAKER_01: 56:06

I I I just want to real quick just say I honor I honor those five men, but now I'm realizing that I left out the woman that I have such high regard, and one of our locals is, and I talk about her a lot. As a matter of fact, well, people will there's something I'm working on regarding her, and it's Ida B. Wells. I love that from Holly Springs, and I that just came into my mind. I gotta bring her up. So if I could get six, thank you for letting me have six.

SPEAKER_02: 56:38

I love that. I really do I love Ida B. Wells, I really do. So I love that answer for you. Um, thank you. I want to ask you something before I get you out of here. And before, and it's before I even ask, I want to say uh for people watching or listening, this is not gonna be the last time Michael will be on the show. Uh, we will work on continuing to get him on future references because there's so many things that we could chat about for hours, and uh, I also want to have him in a more formal, in-person setting, like you've seen me do with Dr. Eltel Skerlock and and others. So that will come. But Michael, I want to ask you. I kind of call it fruits of labor. I got it from a good friend, but I'm really big on legacy. And when I say that, I mean like I talked about with the show. I didn't want this show to be about the X's and O's of sports, but it entailed being a storyteller, which is what I am, and depicting the lives of people. And so that's kind of the legacy I want to be left, leave behind in terms of I help people, I was able to tell people stories and share their life stories and journeys with people. So I want to ask you what would your legacy look like in your opinion? What do you want people to always remember about who you were as a person and what does legacy mean for you?

SPEAKER_01: 57:57

Wow, that's has the potential of being a very pretentious uh thing uh to say. But no, I I you when you get my age, you think, wow, what have you done? And you start to also think, unless you're completely irresponsible, about arrangements, you know, for when you're no longer here and what you need to do regarding those things. I learned through being told I have cancer in my kidney, I'm gonna be operated on in a few days. This was about five years ago. And then I went on to a Nepalese party that night and had a great time. And I thought, wait a minute, aren't I supposed to be scared? I could die in this surgery, and also I'm gonna lose one of my kidneys. So I just bring that up to say I keep seeing if I have a fear of death. And that's a much deeper discussion about why I don't, but I thought, well, we'll see when the time comes how scared I am. And I really don't have a fear of death, so that's a beautiful thing. But and at my age, but my legacy would be uh, as we come to the end of our conversation, how about this? How did I how did I make people feel? Did I make people feel bad, sad? Did I when they think of me, will they have a smile, will they think of a fun time we had together? Um I think that's the most important because if the feeling is one of love, if people feel love and happiness, not pain, not anger, um that's legacy enough for me.

SPEAKER_02: 59:44

I love that. That's um the first time I've ever heard that answer to that question ever. So I I love every bit of what you just said. Um, I want to say thank you, my friend. It was not only good to see you and talk to you, but learn a little bit more about you that I didn't actually know. Uh, and share laughter and get to be informed about what makes you you a little bit. So I want to say thank you for giving me some of your time. Uh, we will do this again, and um, I really do appreciate you for coming on the show.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:15

Thank you, brother. Love you, love what you're doing. I'm honored to be on your Your show.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:21

Appreciate it so much. If you guys are new, like I said, please hit that subscribe button, leave a like, comment something funny so I can laugh. I hope you enjoyed this episode. This is super, super fun. Uh, this is what it's all about. Uh, this this podcast doing these conversations. This episode entitled What I Want to Do and What I Hope to Do and the Conversations That I Hope To Have. So I hope you guys enjoyed this as much as I did. Uh, appreciate you guys for tuning in. I hope you have a blessed day and a great rest of your week. Take care.