Guide to Recessions and Bear Markets

EPISODE SUMMARY

You've likely seen headlines or articles talking about recessions or bear markets.  While these things might make you nervous, I have you covered to make sure you can continue to invest smarter, reduce taxes and retire with confidence.  Download the FREE PDF guide here:

Guide to Recessions and Bear Markets 

Build your financial plan with Evan

TOPICS IN THIS EPISODE

3:32 - What is a recession?

6:54 - What is a bear market?

8:53 - Are recessions and bear markets connected?

11:34 - Preparing for a recession

14:11 - Investing through a bear market

16:41 - Do More

21:28 - Do Less

25:23 - Do Nothing

28:42 - The Good News

RESOURCES MENTIONED

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Transcript

Evan Neufeld: Hello, and welcome back to the Canadian Money Roadmap podcast. I'm your host, Evan Neufeld. Today, Jordan Arndt is back in studio with me and we are going to be talking about recessions and bear markets. Jordan, I feel like it's been a long time. For you listeners, it's only been a couple of weeks, but we've had a bit of a break on the mic, but yeah Jordan, thanks so much for joining me again. 

Jordan Arndt: Excited to be back for another conversation. 

Evan Neufeld: Yeah, its exciting things like recessions and bear markets, right? 

Jordan Arndt: It feels timely, I guess, given some of the news this week or where the markets, certainly in the states, have hit this week. So yeah. Excited to talk about it, given that it is a timely topic right now. 

Evan Neufeld: Depending on when you are listening to this, of course, Who knows today, we actually we've had some pretty positive days in the market now.  So maybe this is an indicator that we're late to the party giving this information. But either way you are going to be in recessions and bear markets again, even if this one comes and goes by the time you listened to this, so hopefully this podcast will be a good resource for you to understand a little bit more about what these things mean when you see them in headlines and how you can react to them and improve your financial situation, regardless of whether you're in a recession or not.

So all that to say, we've got a lot of thoughts and content here that we wanted to put together into an easy to digest resource and something that you can reference again. So we created an investor's guide to recessions and bear markets. So if you're looking for something you're out looking for some material to fall asleep to, maybe this is it. But no, it's really easy to plow through, it's about 10 pages long, but it's mostly just some charts, a few explanations of some things. Also some really actionable tips for things you can do. So in this podcast, we're going to walk through that a little bit. We'll make reference to some of the charts, but of course you can go and download it on my website or from the show notes.

There is going to be a link there and you can find it and download it and follow along. So Jordan, maybe let's start off recessions. We've got a bit of a recession obsession in the media anyways, especially for those of us that remember the, what's known as the great recession or the great financial crisis that was back in 2008, 2009.  People think of that one and that still looms large in people's minds for sure. But let's just get academic here. Let's just talk about facts a little bit. Try to get some of the emotion out of it, but what is a recession? 

Jordan Arndt: Yeah, let's define it. So the most commonly accepted definition, I guess, of a recession is two consecutive quarters of declining gross domestic product or GDP.  Let's define GDP as well. So GDP measures the market value of all final goods and services produced by a country in a specific period. So that'd be reported for Canada or for the states, and again on a specific month by month, year by year, that sort of thing. Recession's really a measure of the health of an economy.  So as the health of an economy declines, there's typically less spending, companies might be less profitable, and they'll produce less accordingly. So overall, as we think about spending's less, productions less, back to that GDP definition market value of final goods and services is less, that declines for a couple quarters. Then we get the recession word or when we're in a recessionary period. 

Evan Neufeld: So if we look at back in 2020, where we kind of had a little bit of a blip recession, and then coming out of that, we kind of saw the opposite of what you just described there, less spending, less production, less, less, less.

Now we're in a situation of a lot of more and more and more. And so, as you can tell. These things go in cycles and there's the magic word in economics is called equilibrium, trying to find that perfect balance and it never happens. And so the economy kind of ebbs and flows around an equilibrium, and that's why we have economic expansions and contractions and then eventually recessions and a recession is kind of that bottom of the economic cycle before it kind of ramps up again.  But as Jordan mentioned there, it's usually. Characterized by less, less spending, less production things like that. And so, as a result, one of the major economic or personal impacts that can happen there relates to employment. 

Jordan Arndt: Yeah, let's just look at North America. So in both Canada and the United States during US recessions in particular, they're often characterized by relatively low unemployment heading into the recession as the recession takes place, unemployment rises.  And then typically when the recession ends, it's kind of your peak unemployment for that time period or at that period of time. So yeah, unemployment is certainly one way that it might be felt closer to home during recessions. 

Evan Neufeld: Yeah and we're not in here trying to scare people and say that every time a recession hits, you're going to lose your job.  Absolutely not. No, but that is just an unfortunate factor of it and why recessions can be uncomfortable for a lot of folks. Depending on what industry you're working in and things like that, some are a little bit more resilient than others of course, but we kind of saw that during COVID in particular things like hospitality and restaurants and whatnot. 

Jordan Arndt: To put this in perspective too, during a recessionary period, we might be looking at an unemployment rise of 1%, 2%, 3%, right.  We're not necessarily talking about larger rises of unemployment, it can be larger than that of course. So a rise just means a rise and it can be a relatively small rise in the grand scheme of things. 

Evan Neufeld: Yeah. And if you are following along with us on page two, we've got a few graphics there.

That'll show a little bit more about what we mean by this. And as you can see, unemployment goes in cycles too. And so it's generally speaking, very quickly those who lose their jobs quickly find a new job soon afterwards as the economic expansion kind of turns around. Okay, so now that's a recession, so that is the economy.  And so I want to make it as clear as I can that the economy and the stock market are different things. Sometimes they move in tandem, but oftentimes they don't. So let's just separate that off the top here. So with a recession or talking about the economy and with a bear market, we're talking about the stock market.  You can have bear markets in the bond market too, and whatnot, but generally speaking, we'll talk about the stock market here. So Jordan, bear markets, what are they?

Jordan Arndt: So that is when stock market index has declined from its recent high. Again, there's maybe not a perfectly agreed upon definition for this.  But typically what's accepted, I guess, is a decline of 20% or more from its recent high. Again, like Evan said, a recession is not a bear market. They may coincide, they often do, but as we'll see, they often don't actually as well. And so, there's definitely links between the two, but they're not perfectly correlated. 

Evan Neufeld: Sometimes you'll see people say that “Well, it was the intraday low that got below 20%, but it closed that day at 19.9%, So we didn't technically have a bull market”.  It's like, who are these people? Like, who cares? It doesn't matter. The whole point is that it's just a general gauge of how the market has done from its all-time high.

Once it kind of gets into that territory, sure we can now categorize it as a bear market, but you're going to see headline after headline talking about bear markets and investing in bear markets and a bit of a boogeyman type of term that's used by the media because of what it could imply, because no one wants to see their investments declined in value. But again, kind of like recessions, these things kind of move in cycles a little bit.

Jordan Arndt: They definitely do.  Just to go back to the recession/bear market thing. Since 1929, the US has had 26 bear markets, but only 15 recessions. You know, twice as often, there's a bear market as there is a recession and again, sometimes those have overlapped, but they can't all overlap based on that definition.  So it doesn't always happen. 

Evan Neufeld: So the economy and the stock market, they're connected on some level, because what is the stock market? Well, it's just a bunch of companies that are buying are typically selling goods and services and the combination of all the sales of goods and services that forms GDP. So at some level they have to be connected.  If we assume that the stock market is actually representative of people paying for the profits of these companies. That's maybe another conversation for another day, but they're connected, but they're not going to move in exact tandem at the same time. The way that I like to describe this to people is I used to have a crazy little dog who like to sniff everything on every corner.  And he'd be the type of dog that would  pull on the leash a little bit. And so if you think of the stock market as being like you're crazy little dog, that's out in front and kind of bouncing around from thing to thing, whereas you are like the economy, you're all typically moving in the same direction, but the stock market kind of leads out in front, bounces around a little bit.  Sometimes behind for sure. Sometimes you're dragging that little stock market dog along with you, but generally speaking, the economy moves slower than the stock market does, and it requires more catalysts for those changes to be made. I don't want to extend this metaphor longer than it needs to, but you can just kind of think of it like that.  The leash is connected with the two, but they're going to move at different speeds and at different times. 

Jordan Arndt: A lot of the economic measures that we're talking about too are historical or lagging indicators and figures. So unemployment is only reported on a period basis or after GDP is reported based on a time period.  So it's always you know, stock market pricing's happening all the time or constantly throughout the trading day. The economy and its factors are often lagging indicators, right?

Evan Neufeld: And often reported like three months later. Funny thing, one of the only things I remember from my university economic forecasting class was on the very first day, the prof sat us all down and he said by the time economists start predicting recessions, we’re already in them. And he had some data to back that up, which was very interesting. But a lot of that is mostly just due to the fact that you're using retroactive data. So right now, if someone's predicting a recession in the future, could we be in one already? Yes, but does it matter? No. 

Jordan Arndt: Well, the principles we'll talk about here still apply whether the recession is today, tomorrow, a year from now or 10 years from now.

Evan Neufeld: Okay. So let's talk about those recession things that you can do to prepare for those.  Again, this is the economic thing and the larger impact there is potentially if you lose your job or if you own a business, if you have slowing sales, all these different things where things kind of contract a little bit. So what can you do to prepare for that when today, relatively speaking things are good, things are okay. 

Jordan Arndt: The one thing that we talked about here is keeping yourself employable. Make sure your resumes updated, try and meet new people, continue to network, even when things are going to well, continue to get out there and, and meet new people. You know, you never want to think about your job maybe being the one on the line. Even if you don't have to think about it, maybe quite such a doomsday situation, but even just trying to find maybe that next opportunity that's an improvement from where you're currently at or if you're looking for something else. You never know where your next opportunity might come from and who might introduce you or lead you to that opportunity.

Evan Neufeld: Yeah, cool tip. Second one there is you want to manage your debt and your savings. So having an emergency fund. So if you are still employed and you're still in kind of saving for retirement stage. Having an emergency fund is something I always recommend. If you have recently spent yours on a recent emergency, maybe focus this time on topping that up so you have some short-term liquidity in case something happens there or just a regular emergency, and maybe you have less employment than you did before or something like that. It's not, everything has to be completely dire for you to have the need for some short-term cash on hand. Another thing that you can do, I think this is a make hay while the sun shines opportunity, by paying down some debt, especially high interest debts.  Maybe every episode we mentioned this. If you have high interest debt, you should focus on paying that off. Especially if it's on a variable term as interest rates go up here. But if you have cash flow, by paying down your debt and hopefully eliminating some of it, you will minimize your fixed expenses if a recession hits and you have less ability to pay for those debts and you can actually spend the money that you do have on yourself, your kids and your family. So, managing your debt and savings is another thing that you can do in advance. 

Jordan Arndt: And along those lines, the third one that we talked about was controlling your spending.   This could be, you know, an advance of recession or during a recession, really at any time.  But the idea of living below your means, I guess, and making sure that not every single penny of your cashflow is allocated to something. But if things are a little bit tighter, think of your subscriptions, maybe your food delivery, gym membership, some of those stuff that, you know, maybe you enjoy, maybe it doesn't get used as often as need to, or maybe there's an alternative that can help control your spending in a time that that is needed.

Evan Neufeld: Okay. So now investing in a bear market. If you are an investor, and not just owning GICs or sitting on piles of cash, wouldn’t that'd be nice. But if you are actually investing your money, which is going to be the vast majority of people, whether that's through a pension or through your own RRSPs and TFSAs, anything like that, you are going to see bear markets, full stop.

Jordan Arndt: Yeah, we actually didn't touch on this, but I think it's important to say that it happens more often than we realize. You'll see different numbers depending on the time period you look at, but in the U S since 1945, bear markets have occurred about one in every five and a half years. So yeah, if you're gonna invest for the next 20, 30, 40 years, you're going to see quite a few of these.

Evan Neufeld: and maybe the inconvenient truth is that the flashy adviser or something, whatever you want to say, they're not able to protect you from bear markets, low fees on DIY products aren't going to protect you from bear markets.  These things are going to happen regardless of how you're invested. There are things that you can invest in that protect you on the downside potentially and working with an advisor can help with some of those decisions, for sure. But you can't have the benefits of return without some risk. And this is what risk is, you know, when you think you've thought of everything else, this is what shows up.  So it's going to happen. We put together a few thoughts here, the general idea if everybody can say it with me, you want to buy low and sell high. What does everybody do and what is the statistics and the fun flows and everything else that we've ever seen? What do people do? They buy high and they sell low.

So I put a graphic in here from Carl Richards. Where it's just got a curvy line of the market.  And at the top it says greed/buy and at the bottom it says, fear/sell, repeat until broke. And it's true. That's one of the best ways to lose money is by buying after the prices have already gone up and selling after they've already gone down. The idea is you want to do the opposite. So here's a few things that you can do to help maybe keep yourself from making the wrong decision at the wrong time. Okay. So I put these into three categories of things that you could do more, things that you could do less and oftentimes the general wisdom that we would give to people is do nothing. But there's a few things that are included in that category, they're a bit more of what I would call an active nothingness things that you can think of and plan for and whatever, as opposed to actual specific actions in your portfolio.

But Let's start with a do more section. Number one here, this one is only applicable to people that have a non-registered portfolio. Again, we've talked about this briefly before, but sometimes it's called a cash account or an open account. Sometimes it's a personal account, so non-registered, this is not an RRSP and this is not a TFSA, but the concept that I'm referring to here is called tax loss harvesting. So in a non-registered account, you pay tax when you sell an investment that has increased in value. What happens if an investment has decreased in value? So say you bought it for a hundred bucks. Now it's worth 80.  If you sell it and buy something else. Well, now at that point you have locked in, what's called a capital loss and that capital loss can be used to offset gains in the future. So that doesn't mean you have to cut your losses and now sit on cash. If you're invested in say US equity fund and it's down to 80 bucks, you can switch it and buy a different US equity fund so that your upside potential is the same, but now you have the asset of a tax benefit from that tax loss. Before you start flipping things around there are some really specific rules about this that I'm not going to get into today. If you work with a planner, if you work with a tax specialist, please talk to them before you do tax loss harvesting, but it can be one of the best ways to improve the tax efficiency of one's portfolio.

Jordan Arndt: Another thing that you can do more of is buy more often. So in this case let's think about if you're investing new money every month, think about doing smaller amounts more often. You can still do the same total amount per month, but maybe you increase your contribution frequency to every second week or even every week, perhaps.  And what that'll do is it allow you to buy into the market more regularly and reduce the impacts of volatility and get that money in on a more regular basis. Really the goal when you're buying is to gather as many shares as possible. So just think about it, it's just more opportunity to gather more shares.

Evan Neufeld: What about for people that are retired and maybe living off their portfolio already, or maybe living off pensions or government benefits and things like that, how do they actually buy low? 

Jordan Arndt: There's no extra cash to or you're not earning an income, you don't have a bonus payment with something that you can invest. If you're on a fixed income, like you were talking about. Think about rebalancing your account. So this can be chance to rebalance to your target allocation that you originally set up, which is really selling your winners and then buying your loser. And so what that's going to do is that's going to move money that's done well or, or outperformed in your portfolio and buy the ones that have underperformed. What that allows you to do is buy more shares of the loser. So back to the gathering shares concept, you're able to gather more units or shares by using a rebalancing strategy.

Evan Neufeld: Yeah and the thing that I really want to highlight here is that this isn't a watering your weeds strategy either we use the term winners and losers pretty casually of course, but if we're talking about diversified portfolio, so if part of the, your loser could be maybe a small cap equity fund, which could be much more volatile and a Canadian large cap fund, which is mostly banks and oil and gas and things like that. If these two things are theoretically part of a well-diversified portfolio for you and each of those are maybe ETFs or mutual funds in and of themselves, there's very little risk of watering the weeds here, as opposed to things like owning individual securities.  Where you still hold a much higher risk of actually holding something to zero.  Within a diversified portfolio, it becomes much more mathematically difficult for that to be the reality for you. So rebalancing between diversified portfolios or sectors or things like that can be a much safer way to do rebalancing.

So to dovetail into that, which is the third point increase diversification. So looking at things like your sector allocations or geographic, so maybe too much in the US, maybe it's too much in Canada. Maybe you had a lot over in Asia. Maybe they got dragged down a little bit by the what's going on in Russia and Ukraine. Things like sectors, when COVID hit and 2020 kind of carried the tech sector. A lot of people found themselves overexposed to tech. And now when tech has fallen off a little bit more, things get messy with different allocations.

So rebalancing by increasing diversification. It's something that you can do during periods of time like this, if you own individual securities, considering things like a pooled investment, like ETFs and mutual funds might be a good strategy. No one knows what's going to bounce off the eventual bottom here. But diversification is as some people have called it, the only free lunch in investing.  So it's always a good idea to do, especially during a bear market. What are some things that we should be doing less often.

Jordan Arndt: These are kind of more behavioural type, but a one, try and look at your statements less often. If you know it’s bad, try and avoid looking to remind yourself that it's bad. I think it has been researched that actually looking at your statement and portfolio less leads to, I think it's greater happiness or less stress. Anyways the point is, the more you look, it doesn't really help you out. And so try not to look as much as possible.

Evan Neufeld: Yeah. This isn't a head in the sand, you don't need to completely ignore it.

Jordan Arndt: but checking every day for the sake of checking. I guess why you know, let's just take a look at if you're checking for a purpose or if it's going to lead to some actionable things. That's a different story, but if it's to check to check then yeah.

Evan Neufeld: Assuming you're not a day trader and you're in diversified portfolios, you are in this with billions of other people with trillions of dollars invested. You know, this isn't just you, unfortunately or fortunately, I guess, depending on how you look at it. But, try not to look as often as you might. Maybe set a schedule for yourself. If you're someone that likes to look every day, maybe look once a week, maybe once a quarter, maybe once a year, when you do your annual review, something like that. But on the next hand here with, with doing less reduce your media intake. Media, it drives me nuts. Like I'm not a fake news type of person here.  So, maybe get that out of the way here, but reducing your media and tech is generally just a good thing for improving your mental wellbeing. The goal of the media, one of my partners here at the office, he says, remember BNN and CNBC, their goal is not to make you a better investor, their goal is to sell advertising.  That is it, full stop. Okay. So what gets people to come back to watch more, to click more on the links, scary headlines. But you know, there's always going to be the next expert that comes out of the woodwork.  My favourite or maybe least favourite thing is the person who called the 2020 crash is now saying that we're 50% away from the bottom. Whatever there's a new expert or the person that called the 1987 black Monday crisis, like who cares?  Sorry, I'm ranting, but just be cautious.  Be careful. Are they talking to people like you that actually know your situation?   Just be careful. Reduce your media intake is a really good way to avoid this. Okay. Moving on things to do less, don't catch a falling knife. So if you're watching media and even just watching your portfolio, maybe you have some individual holdings. Let's look at a situation like Peloton here.

We don't sell individual securities, but this is an active recommendation or not of Peloton, but Peloton is a stock that everybody knew during COVID for obvious reasons. And from its all time high, I think it was down 95% or something like that. At some point, someone's going to see that and be like, wow, that's that looks like a great deal and maybe they did that when it was down at 70%, maybe they did that when it was down 50%. Who knows. Of course we're talking about this in hindsight, but sometimes especially when you look at individual stocks, these companies can look too cheap. It's like, oh wow. It was a good idea last month. But in reality it was probably just way too expensive before and we call them value traps. So it looks like it's a really good value. When in reality, this company is going to zero. Peloton might not go to zero, but there are a lot of companies that don't get a lot of press that go to zero every year. And so just be careful about looking for all these opportunities to get cute with your individual investments.

Diversification is your friend. Yeah. You're much more likely to have success. It's more boring for sure, but it's a lot less like gambling when you buy a bit everything. Right. Moving on. Do nothing. How about this Jordan? Don't just do something stand there. 

Jordan Arndt: You know, number one, revisit your “why”. So why are you investing the money? When do you actually need it, checking on your goals, timeline, priorities, purpose, risk, what you want with your money, what it means to you. If you need this money tomorrow or in the next one or two or three years, cash is good. 

Evan Neufeld: It always has been, to be fair, right?

Jordan Arndt: Actually let's consider point number two, with this is stick with your plan. So what dovetails out of your why and your goals and timeline and all that is, is your plan. And so if you're investing regular into your TFSA or RRSP or wherever, whatever that looks like paying down debt contributing to work plans.  Should a bear market change that. And probably not, maybe of course, there's always an asterisks beside that. Like everyone's situation is different, but you know, stick to your plan, understand your why, which is more of an active do nothing, I guess. Because you have to understand what your why and your plan is to begin with.  But now in a bear market is maybe when it can show off it’s stuff a little bit, or really go to work for you. Right. 

Evan Neufeld: And now the last thing in the do nothing is just resist the urge to time the market. There's a couple of different ways that this often shows up. I get emails from people from time to time, not too many, actually, but once in awhile the idea of waiting for the dust to settle before you invest your money, what does that mean to you, Jordan, for the dust to settle.

Jordan Arndt: I don't know. When is that dust settling? 

Evan Neufeld: Does the stock market put up a big green flag and say, you know, today's the good day to invest? No, it doesn't, right. So we only know when the quote-unquote dust has settled after the fact, because this thing is moving all the time and by the time someone feels comfortable, generally speaking, that means that the market's gone up pretty consistently for an extended period of time.  Now I'm also not an advocate of waiting for the bottom because there is a bias that people have of their current situation will be what happens forever. So if things are currently bad, it's going to get worse. Things are good. It's going to get great. It's just like this euphoria like spectrum that people find themselves on.

So if things are down, I don’t know, look for cheaper. You're not going to get cheapest. No one does. If you look for that headline of that guru or the billionaire that called the bottom of the market. Great, good for them. But it's not going to be you. It's not going to be me. If something is 10, 15% off its all-time high, maybe that's a good time to add some more if you had some cash.  If it's down 30%, maybe it's an even better idea, but if you're going to wait around for it or wait for the time that you're going to feel more comfortable, you're probably going to be disappointed, unfortunately. 

And if you're just waiting in cash and even if you could pick the perfect bottom every single time you waited in cash, it waited in cash. And then boom, you put it all in right at the bottom. It still would be better off just by holding on the whole time because the cash drag on your overall portfolio's returns is still significant.  You don't want to miss out. So yeah, if that's something that you don't feel comfortable with, you could also just buy a lower risk portfolio, right. A couple of different options there, of course, but resist the urge to time the market. That's kind of the big thing.

So. A lot of bad news you know, when you talk about recessions and bear markets and things like that, and there's a few things that that we talked about now that you can do. Give me some good news here, Jordan, maybe.

Jordan Arndt: Yeah, good news is that bear markets are usually shorter, much shorter actually than a bull market.  Quick note, I guess a bull market is the opposite of a bear market or a period of where the market steadily increases. But the point is a bear market. The declines are much lower than the gains that bull markets has provided, this is statistically backed up.  S&P 500, that's in the US, returns average gain in bull market 165% where an average loss in a bear market is only negative 34%. So thats since 1942.

Evan Neufeld: That doesn't mean that -34 doesn't feel fun for anybody.

Jordan Arndt: That's minus 34 remember over a shorter period. So that's, it's a shorter, sharper contraction than the bull market, which is a longer, more drawn out expansion or rise in the market. 

Evan Neufeld: So the market takes the elevator down and the stairs up.

Jordan Arndt: Yeah. It doesn't feel good, definitely not. But I guess historically, you know, looking at historical data, the good news is that the bull market will continue to out perform.

Evan Neufeld: Well at some level, I think that is reassuring that bull markets are generally longer and provide more gains than a than bear markets do. We don't want to minimize the fact that a bear markets don't feel good and they can have a negative impact on your portfolio. The main way that they will have a negative impact is if you're doing those things like selling when things are down and hanging on to cash at the wrong time.  It feels good and it feels like you're making action. But unfortunately this is one of those times where you know, the horse is already out of the barn. You can't do risk management after risk has happened. I hope next time we get to all-time highs, we have a good risk management episode is like, okay, what do we do? How do we prepare for the next one?  When things are actually looking really good. But anyways bear markets, you know, they're part of a normal investment cycle. Recessions are part of a normal economic cycle. It's a healthy process for the economy and for the stock market gets rid of excess. It gets rid of speculation and it corrects prices that have really gotten out of hand.

And that's why they use the term corrections sometimes, which it doesn't feel like an appropriate term to use when things have decreased in value and people have lost money. That's what's happening there. So bear markets and recessions, they're coming, they'll come and go many times throughout your investing life and by being prepared for them, hopefully by doing some of the things that we suggested today, you can ensure that you can still retire with confidence.

Thanks so much for putting up with me here. As you might've been able to tell him coming off a bit of a cold and so a bit of a cracky voice and a bit of a nasally voice. Thank you so much for listening. We really appreciate it. Again, if you are looking for the document that we have been talking about here, and you'd like to share it with somebody or just even keep it for yourself of course, you can find that link in the show notes to download our investors guide to bear markets and recessions.

If you have a chance to leave us a review on apple podcast or follow us along on the podcast player of your choice, that would be great. We really do appreciate it. We love getting all the emails and positive feedback from you as the listener. So feel free to shoot us an email. We've got that contact info in the show notes, of course, but thanks for listening and we'll see you again in the next one.

 Thanks for listening to this episode of the Canadian Money Roadmap podcast. Any rates of return or investments discussed are historical or hypothetical and are intended to be used for educational purposes only. You should always consult with your financial, legal, and tax advisors before making changes to your financial plan. Evan Neufeld is a Certified Financial Planner and registered investment fund advisor.  Mutual funds and ETFs are provided by Sterling Mutuals Inc.