Journey in Renewable Energy with Riean Norman - E129

In this episode, Riean Norman, Senior Director at Crow Holdings, shares his journey and insights into the renewable energy sector.
The conversation covers:

• Riean's career path, starting as a land representative at Chevron and transitioning into renewable energy development at NextEra.
• His shift from subsurface oil and gas development to surface-based renewable projects.
• Navigating skepticism towards renewables in traditional oil and gas regions and balancing individual landowner rights with community benefits.
• The evolving relationship between developers and utilities, and the need for better collaboration to streamline project development.
• Crow Holdings’ strategy of leveraging its large real estate portfolio to develop front-of-the-meter solar projects.
• Advice for young professionals entering the renewable energy space, emphasizing the importance of starting with land acquisition to build a strong foundation.

Tune in now for an inspiring conversation on the future of energy!

Check out Crow Holdings at www.crowholdings.com. 

Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Transcript

00:01.73
carbtonic_admin
Hello, today we're speaking with Riean Norman, Vice President at Crow Holdings Renewables. Welcome to the podcast, Riean.

00:07.35
Riean Norman
Hey, glad to be here.

00:09.59
carbtonic_admin
Brilliant. um I guess to start, we'd love to hear a little bit about how you ended up at Crow Holdings.

00:15.47
Riean Norman
Yeah, so um it's been interesting. It's been a ah curvy but exciting path to to get here. um I'd probably say it started in 2012 when I graduated from the Law Center at LSU, so go Tigers. But when I graduated, I had an opportunity to go work as a land representative are more colloquially known as a landman ah for Chevron. And ironically, because i'm I'm actually back in Pennsylvania now, but in 2012, that's where where I started started my career as a landman in Westinham, Pennsylvania.

00:51.72
Riean Norman
ah And it was a great opportunity to be in a large organization um and understand kind of the overall um format of energy development, a different sector. um But one thing that I identified early on was oil and gas was a very mature market. And we were on the upstream side with the energy production. So I was going out and I was the one responsible for.

01:16.43
Riean Norman
going to get land. um And I always knew there was a midstream component and a downstream component, ah but we were just so segmented that never I never connect the pieces. So after doing that for about five years, I really wanted to get to a point where I understood energy development at a higher level. um And yes, I was looking at renewable energy opportunities. Just the the industry in general really aligns with kind of some of my core values. so

01:47.81
Riean Norman
After a few conversations, a few interviews, I had an opportunity to go do a similar job, citing land. So and instead of doing subsurface rights, we were just citing the surface rights for next-air energy. i'm So I started my renewable career of next-air citing utility-scale wind projects back in Pennsylvania. As a matter of fact, we worked on a project called Waymark II that a few of your viewers may know about.

02:16.26
Riean Norman
But did that for ah maybe three years or so and once again wanted to really expand my capabilities and my competencies and get you know out of strictly land development and kind of get to a broader idea of development in general.

02:32.29
Riean Norman
ah So at the time, a year or two before, NextEra had started a dis distributed generation team that was focusing on community solar projects. And they were in need of what they called an early stage developer. So somebody who had a keen eye to acquire land siting and acquisition, but also who can move forward into getting into the interconnection queue. So starting the interconnection process and doing the diligence on partnering.

03:00.91
Riean Norman
so oh was able to transition over to that team and and learned learned a whole lot, learned a lot about dis distributed generation projects and community solar. Really fell in love with community solar. That was 2019, 2020. I moved down to South Florida.

03:20.04
Riean Norman
ah So middle of COVID, you know, my wife is pregnant, a lot of things happening. And we decided it would just be best to be closer to home. I'm from Atlanta, Georgia. So ironically, we got a phone call for a developer who was based in Atlanta, Georgia, who was a community doing community song projects, who was in need of somebody kind of with this niche skill set. So ah moved over to Dimension Energy, I believe, in 2020. Started focusing on doing a very similar job, doing early stage development for community solar projects.

03:54.24
Riean Norman
I had a great run at that. And then last year, about a year and a half ago, ah connected with some people here at Crow and identified that they were building out a DG team.

04:07.25
Riean Norman
And really liked the idea of kind of being on the front end of of building out a team, kind of taking this this niche set of skills that I had and trying to make a run of it.

04:17.28
Riean Norman
So long-winded way of saying that's how I got here.

04:18.98
carbtonic_admin
Yeah. Super interesting. I'd love to get an, I guess, start. So, you know, you're doing the land van subsurface for oil and gas for Chevron, and then you start working on the, um on the siting. When you're literally engaging the landowners, how was that different? Like, what was your approach in both cases?

04:38.20
Riean Norman
Yeah, it it was it was very interesting. um So I started started my career as a lab man in in Western Pennsylvania. So I was ah was responsible for Western Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and portions of o Ohio.

04:54.33
Riean Norman
And I still remember my first time out to a landowner's house. one ah we We would have them had a buddy system where somebody more senior would kind of take you out there and show you the ropes. But I fell in love with it. It it made to to me the site acquisition and connecting with the landowner and hearing the story of how the land was acquired. In a lot of cases, these people who had, this is fourth, fifth generation ah farmers on on land. It was a really exciting way to start start your your your career, to understand that

05:32.99
Riean Norman
ah you know We were selling a product of sorts, but it was fun to be able to go out and offer something of considerable value to to a landowner that, and a lot of times would change the trajectory kind of of what they were looking to do do with the property. So I guess the difference between subsurface and surface was when I was in citing for oil and gas,

05:57.72
Riean Norman
ah you know it didn't really disturb what was going on on on top of the property. So um that probably was the best of both worlds for for a lot of landowners, where they can continue to operate as is and get min payment are payments associated with their mental rights.

06:15.24
Riean Norman
It's a bit different with renewables because we're everything we're doing, whether it's wind, battery storage, solar, it's ah it's all on the surface. so ah There's a different value proposition. so There's a proposition of giving up a portion. oh and i should say it's even more distinct or more differentiated between utility scale and distributed. But for this case, we'll talk about distributed generation, which are typically these smaller projects. But the value proposition really is for a landowner who has a 100 acre parcel. If we could utilize 20 to 30 of those acres, which I would say sometimes is best and highest use, you're still able to move forward with

07:03.39
Riean Norman
ye farming if that's what you're doing as is and get a higher yield or higher annual payment ah you citing a ah solar project or source.

07:16.01
carbtonic_admin
You also, I guess, have, you know, especially in places like Western PA and and the areas you mentioned, you know, there is this very long history of oil and gas, right? It's been there, you know, since the mid 1800s.

07:28.24
carbtonic_admin
You have multi generations of folks, you know, seeing, you know, mines and and and wells kind of arise and and and so on.

07:33.86
Riean Norman
yeah Yeah.

07:35.92
carbtonic_admin
um And then you're coming in with renewables, which, you know, until relatively recently, ah you know, were probably, you know, in many parts of the world are still regarded to with like a high degree of skepticism. um I guess like, you know, and especially wind, right? Because wind, I think, even has greater issues. um When you were first starting to talk to those folks when you were, you know, working on on the on the wind sighting, um you know, how did you, I guess, change your approach to get folks to like engage with you versus what you've done from previously?

08:05.20
Riean Norman
Yeah, it's it's it's interesting. And kind of when when you're in the trenches of it, and you're you're speaking to the actual landowners, um or even the communities that you're looking the site in, oh you know I think initially, maybe back in 2016, when we were in Pennsylvania, there was there was that that tension between you know where these coal areas. Coal is king was kind of a big ah big term. and um But what you start seeing is there were a lot of ah coal mines that had been abandoned for quite a while. And you also realize that there were a number of coal fire plants ah that that were being decommissioned. So you know the idea that renewables is taking away kind of these these oil and gas and coal jobs, it just it wasn't real on the ground. It wasn yeah it wasn't as if

09:05.03
Riean Norman
built. We were placing jobs. We were essentially offering opportunities because a lot of lot of those coal jobs and different things were no longer available. So it wasn't ah as hard of a sale um with when you know the the biggest sale at the time, I mean, the biggest issue at the time was people you for various reasons didn't want to look at it. And you have to understand with With siting projects, there's this delicate balance between landowner rights yeah as a property owner and the

09:40.02
Riean Norman
the um I guess the overall opinion or feeling of the community. So as a landowner, you should should have a certain level of rights to do with your land as you feel fit, like use it to its best and highest financial you use. But you live in community. We all we all live in in communities, whether they're rural or or not. There are communities and when you put up a 300-foot turbine, you and your neighbors that have to have to look at it.

10:09.51
Riean Norman
There was a conversation that you, I say all that to say that, you know, the conversation that you would have with the landowner and explaining how the the financial, the financial calculations actually make make sense for for their land ah was one conversation, but there was a separate conversation that you had to have with the community and the and the neighbors to ensure ah that they also felt like there could be some community benefit.

10:37.26
carbtonic_admin
And I guess kind of moving forward to um when you were kind of like initially talking talking to Crow and then you eventually joined them, you know, for those who are not aware, Crow is not a traditional renewable like developer. They're like a very large real estate investment trust with ah kind of various kind of you know business units and so on. So I guess, you know, how has it been being part of an early team, um you know, an early and I think maybe one of the first renewables focused teams um at a company at a larger company from a different kind of industry?

11:08.01
Riean Norman
Yeah, yeah, it's a great question. um you're You're right. Crowholdings is this what the portion that's being built out in Crowholdings is really a way that they continue to diversify their investment portfolio. So Crowholdings, they have over $29 billion dollars of assets under management. They're one of the largest multifamily and industrial depth development platforms in the nation. um And as real estate, ah the real estate market ah continues to to move forward, whether whether it's up or down.

11:42.80
Riean Norman
ah One thing that is apparent is renewables plays a portion in real estate development. ah So what we're really doing here and a really cool opportunity was to you know be kind of in-house with a development platform that literally has um either manages or owns hundreds of millions of square feet of rooftop.

12:11.37
Riean Norman
um and we thought that we could go in and greenfield put on my air quotes greenfield our own portfolio our pro pro's portfolio we have had some success with doing that um so it's been it's it's been exciting to be with such a large organization that has ah such a good track record in real estate to really help bridge that connection between the real estate our our real estate industry and the renewable energy industry.

12:44.11
carbtonic_admin
Yeah, and I guess so, yeah ah my understanding is you're primarily focused on in front of the meter ah projects. um But, you know, I think a lot of folks when they're thinking about rooftop even large rooftop is behind the meter, you know, like a certain version of CNI potentially.

12:59.74
carbtonic_admin
ah I guess like how do you think about ah that and like the opportunities, of particularly maybe in like jurisdictions, I'm not sure if you're in that jurisdiction, but places like Maryland where it's just like so much constraint on ground mount availability that maybe to even get into a community solar program you have to look at rooftop.

13:09.08
Riean Norman
Yeah. know Yeah, so I would say we're we're focused on both, behind behind the meter and from the meter. um What we've seen, so right now, are for the past year and a half, we have focused on community solar development. So our approach was to first look at the look at our own portfolio, look at Crow's portfolio,

13:41.99
Riean Norman
and see what assets we own or manage in a community solar market and see whether that asset was suitable to put a ah rooftop right project on. In doing that, of course, we were also looking at different CNI opportunities. um Right now, kind of where the overall portfolio is,

14:05.84
Riean Norman
um and the sense of the cost that would be associated with developing CNI projects. it's um We're still evaluating which which assets make the most sense, ah but just for immediate wins, right? We we thought that there for offtake and community solar and our experience, it just made sense to to focus on these front of the meter community solar projects. We we have um we are expanding into other front-of-the-meter opportunities, just just different off-take agreements outside of just community solar, as community solar pride legislation continues to evolve and hopefully get passed. um That would be a keen focus. but

14:53.17
Riean Norman
um you know I think all your developers who come on are probably in the same community solar markets. So just like I said, we have the experience, we have a portfolio where if we can make a different front of the meter opportunity work, where we're interested in figuring that out too.

15:10.48
carbtonic_admin
I think one of the, you know, you mentioned the the different states and legislation. um One thing that we found really interesting across like the different developers that we worked with is the different kind of risk appetites for when a market is ready, right?

15:23.98
carbtonic_admin
You know, you have some folks who are like, hey, ah that somebody is starting to write a bill in in the in the state legislation, let's get in there and just like, you know, try to get a ton of lander to site control.

15:24.23
Riean Norman
yeah

15:36.34
carbtonic_admin
And then other folks are like, until the governor signs this, I'm not going near it. And then everything in between. um you know without you know and I guess naming some specific geos, because I know that's always like closely held information.

15:42.58
Riean Norman
Yeah.

15:45.88
Riean Norman
Yeah.

15:48.93
carbtonic_admin
um I guess, like how what in general is your approach to kind of thinking about the trade-offs and the kind of risk profile of different jurisdictions availabl to go into?

15:57.33
Riean Norman
Yeah, you know so what we're we're like I said, we're we're building out our vertical. um And we we have a team with a lot of experience, but but it is a smaller team. So I think we look at our risk appetite as um are aligned with what we have the capacity to to put on our plate. um So with with that said, community solar markets that um still have available capacity like New Jersey, like of of available capacity ah where we're able to go greenfield some rooftops are greenfield some rooftops internally based off our own portfolio. Those are immediate. Those are obvious markets that that we'd be interested in and in being in. um And we actually you our portfolios, we can reduce our risk of a bit because you theres there's an opportunity to

16:53.66
Riean Norman
evaluate some things and not have to necessarily worry about um yeah ah guess somebody stepping in and and interfering with with with new negotiations. So so that that's one one area. oh The other area, are I guess one of the considerations is ah with specific to community solar, it's typically the early mover right that's rewarded, oh that's able to be rewarded. So you have um markets like, you'll call it you know Wisconsin, or a market like Pennsylvania, where the interconnection process is, our visit excuse me, I should say Virginia.

17:35.63
Riean Norman
Pennsylvania and Virginia, where um the interconnection system is set up where you're submitting your interconnection through specific utilities and whoever submits their application first is first in the queue. And in order to submit your application, you you'll typically have to show land that you have access to the land or there's some type of lease or option agreement. So, you know, the longer you wait, the more risk you put into being later in the queue. The earlier you hit a market, the better your chances are being first in the interconnection queue. ah But now you have to sit there and kind of wait for legislation. So we I would say that we're

18:25.26
Riean Norman
we We like to have a healthy mix of being in two or so markets that are mature, and there's a direct path to a community solo offtake. And then looking at other markets where there's definitely legislation, we keep our ears close to the to the ground to see what organizations are are bullish on the next community solar market opening up and taking a few perspective sites in there.

18:59.54
carbtonic_admin
And I guess, you know, sometimes markets don't turn out the way we want. um Arizona, I'm thinking a couple years ago, California, obviously in the last six to nine months, right, where you have markets and there's some sort of change where, you know, it's not quite what we, what we, you know, the the industry itself, ah collectively, we're kind of after.

19:18.39
carbtonic_admin
And so maybe it it's kind of extended those timelines.

19:18.82
Riean Norman
Yeah.

19:21.06
carbtonic_admin
um You know, we we've kind of heard folks, some folks are like, look, you know, we think this will come back, it's like two years, we've got a three to four year lease option, we'll like hold it. Other folks try to like, you know, get, you know, do M and&A around some of those positions and so on.

19:34.83
carbtonic_admin
um I guess again, do you have like a similar kind of way of like thinking assessing that risk and and and balancing those kind of things in various ways?

19:41.68
Riean Norman
eat Yeah, we do. And i think I think the industry by and large is similar is similarly similarly situated in the sense that um and you'll you'll have a developer who will come out with a four or five year option agreement to to to lease the property up for for that very reason.

19:59.85
Riean Norman
i mean there's um yeah in In community solar markets that are mature and operating, ideally, you you would just like to say, best case scenario, you could develop a project in 24 months. But when you are citing projects where the community solar bill has not been um enacted,

20:22.93
Riean Norman
yeah I would say you probably need to add two years to that. So 18 to 24 months for the legislation to to make its way through the legislature and be and be published and whatnot. um And then another two years to to go through the full process of um interconnecting and getting all your permits and actually breaking ground. So yeah, I think we're mostly all doing the same thing in that regard.

20:49.96
carbtonic_admin
And I guess like what what are some of the challenges you faced as you're trying to develop some of these projects?

20:55.19
Riean Norman
Yeah, um so, and this kind of goes in into the PASIS platform. So we have, um we we had a land campaign that we initiated last year for California in anticipation of the California communities opening up and the siting perspective of that I was fairly straightforward, right? Because you have these hosting capacity maps, you have all of this data, state level data that you could pull making a plug for patients that you you pull straight out of places. And it gave you a really good idea of where you wanted to be and where you didn't want to be.

21:34.75
Riean Norman
um Well, you going further east um you know into, say, Pennsylvania, we're just picking on Pennsylvania now, um but if you're you're citing in Pennsylvania an anticipation of community solar program, ah there is no host in capacity maps, right? um So the idea of identifying, you know, you're creating, trying to create a profile of of parcels that you'd be interested in,

22:02.67
Riean Norman
a huge part of that is the proximity to distribution lines, proximity to to substations. ah When you don't have those resources available at a state level, you have to kind of piecemeal that stuff together. A lot of the information is is outdated. So I would say that the risks are not the risks but one of the challenges is is just getting reliable data and I even even mentioned you know the host of capacity maps in in California but you know you're your developer followers will all agree that that information was not ah as accurate as we would hope it to to to be so just trying to

22:47.06
Riean Norman
get as much data as possible, um accurate data, to create a path forward as to where we want to be would would be a a huge challenge that we have been working working with the PlacesPath platform to try to overcome.

23:02.62
carbtonic_admin
Yeah, I think we say internally that developers have an insatiable demand for data. And so it's like, how do we satiate that demand? And you know and and your point, some geographies, ah the best you can do is this is the three-phase line.

23:16.59
carbtonic_admin
It's 12.47 kV potentially. um But the utility itself, even if you call them, might not tell you the like the true even voltage or you know, you're trying to see is there a transformer pad on the um the at the substation and like all this business?

23:24.32
Riean Norman
yeah

23:31.04
carbtonic_admin
That makes no sense. I guess like then, you know, maybe are there any specific projects you've worked on, you know, because of either the lack of data or, you know, challenges that might have arisen, both of the connection or permitting side that you've got to be kind of creative to get that project to move forward.

23:46.56
Riean Norman
Yeah, I mean, well, to be, yes, I would say every project I've worked on, um requires a level of creativity it in one aspect or are the other.

24:00.72
Riean Norman
yeah as we As we're werere in some markets right now that are east of the Mississippi, kind of in in the Northeast area, and permitting. So we'll just talk about permitting for for a second. we're permit permitting yeah Permitting of a solar project in the area is done at a at a local level. So whether that be a city or a township.

24:25.18
Riean Norman
um And you know you can be in some townships or some cities where there's less than a thousand people. hello So you know with with areas geographical areas that's small, a lot of land, infrastructure's still there, but getting a path forward to permitting, you do have to get a bit creative. There there is no website where you can track um what's happening and when the ordinance is being put up. So ah getting in and kind of putting on that land man hat again, building the relationship, ah seeing where where are what is actually of interest to to the municipality as opposed to, hey we want to put a solar project here and we want to give you what we want to give you. Just stepping back in and and

25:15.86
Riean Norman
building that relationship to see what would be helpful as we consider building or developing a project. that's been

25:23.28
carbtonic_admin
And what do those municipalities typically respond? like What are the things where they're like, oh, OK, this would help us move forward?

25:31.34
Riean Norman
You know, all across the board, I would say by and large, um you municipalities, they want to maintain the feel of the area that they live in. So their biggest issue is how do we protect what what we have?

25:49.10
Riean Norman
and i and But I would also say there's, we've we've had good conversations where it's not an absolute no, no, I will say for areas where there's an obvious prohibition that we found or there's a solo ordinance that limits us to you know, the 20-acre portion in the top left corner of the area. I mean, we we do stay away from those. But by and large, when when you're in an area where there there is no ordinance and you start you start reaching out to build a relationship, I think they want information. They they they want information. They want to be able to to trust what's happening. They they see it coming. um It's not, it's not a foreign concept. They just want to make sure that it's it's done in a way that doesn't change them into something that, their area into something that it wasn't.

26:45.02
carbtonic_admin
And I guess, like, if we think, you know, how the market's been evolving, you know, if you look a couple of years out, how do you think it will continue to evolve?

26:52.75
Riean Norman
Yeah, I think that ah Developers and off-takers will get more creative on different off-take opportunities. We have we have limit limitations on the grid with generation and load.

27:11.40
Riean Norman
um But we still have we still have a need to move things like data centers or access to cheaper energy you know for people who cannot afford to put a solar project or so yes the solar panels on their rooftop.

27:29.89
Riean Norman
we still need to figure out how to how to move that forward. So I think that there's going to be more creativity on win-win situations. This is not a it's not a ah zero-sum game on both ends. there I would like to say, I would hope to say that eventually we get to the point where it is more of a partnership model as with the developer and the utilities that that we're working in where we can show the real value there. There's, you know, right now there's a conversation and depending on which side of the aisle you're on, um you see it totally different, but there's this cost shifting analysis. Really depends on the data that you're you're putting in to to come to your own conclusion, but

28:19.52
Riean Norman
I think we're going to get to the point where you know we'll have enough enough collaboration to to to show that specifically with community solar cost shifting um is kind of the boogeyman that might have been made up um as as opposed to actually making it higher, making making payments higher for rate traders.

28:46.36
Riean Norman
Those are the types of things.

28:46.44
carbtonic_admin
Yeah.

28:47.28
Riean Norman
and i think um You asked to me, where do I see it going? I think I'm giving you kind of my my wish list where I hope it's going. ah But I would say that I don't and don't see how we cannot get to a more collaborative point up between developers and the utilities as we move forward. Because it at least in my nine, 10 years of doing this, it almost feels like it's a breaking point. Something has to happen with community solar, for example. i e Either legislation has to move forward, reopen up new community solar markets. are It kind of goes away, right? And I'm just being hopeful that it opens up as opposed to going away.

29:24.40
carbtonic_admin
Yeah, I had an interesting conversation with someone pretty senior at one of the Western utilities and kind of talked about some of these points with them. And I think like a lot of it is some of the perception between the developer side and the utility side is just like fundamentally broken, because developers like I just need to get these projects built, I, you know,

29:39.27
Riean Norman
Yeah.

29:43.22
carbtonic_admin
utility just tell me where to build, right?

29:44.98
Riean Norman
Yeah.

29:45.27
carbtonic_admin
and And I presented this kind of argument to this person at the utility and they said, well, we would never be able to tell you where to build, right? We are, you know, a regulated monopoly, like we can't tell you, like we can't, you know, give like a selective bias towards one substation versus another because of the, you know, the community impacts and like all this kind of thing.

30:02.88
Riean Norman
yeah

30:05.33
carbtonic_admin
And then they were like, you know, developers, they're just throwing lots of speculative projects anyways onto the queue. And, you know, I think we'd all be the first to admit that particularly when in certain regions, you did not have a requirement for a lease option, like that was happening, like, but I think most jurisdictions, that's no longer the case.

30:21.42
carbtonic_admin
And you know developers are not going through all the pain of getting a landowner signed up just to have a purely speculative lease option.

30:21.55
Riean Norman
right Yeah.

30:27.97
carbtonic_admin
And so I think there's maybe ah kind of an older perception of a certain amount of wildcatting development that was occurring maybe a few years ago that you know folks and but you know folks on the utility side haven't fully updated their priors on.

30:40.27
carbtonic_admin
um But I think like all these things, it's like, additional conversation, talking it through, trying to like understand the perspective, you know, cause again, I, I still think just tell us where to build right the utility. Like this is this, this would be, let's figure out a way to, you know, even if it's a third party like paces or some other vendor that we could like work with you and it's not officially coming from the utility, but we can say, okay.

30:50.47
Riean Norman
it

31:00.45
carbtonic_admin
Hey. you're very likely to get low-cost upgrades at this particular place. um so i But I fully agree that we need to kind of continue these conversations in order to like have something that's continuing to grow at the current rates two to three years out.

31:13.35
Riean Norman
Definitely. That's right. Totally agree.

31:15.91
carbtonic_admin
um Perfect. I guess like, you know, talk a little bit about your kind of passing you this very interesting, you know, history of like moving gas and through the kind of different types of development and, um you know, you've seen these kind of various stages of how to, you know, development has has evolved over the years.

31:32.16
carbtonic_admin
um you know I guess, let's say I was a young person who is trying to be that next you know version of Ryan who's like trying to potentially get into the industry or um figure out you know where could they potentially fit. um What advice would you give that person in terms of kind of getting involved or even like if you think about your background you know growing up in Atlanta and and so on, you know how that kind of impacted your approach to your career?

31:54.40
Riean Norman
Yeah, yeah, no, I've thought about that a lot. um i'm I'm a bit biased because yeah because of how I started my career. ah when i When I first started at Chevron, I had a manager, but one wonderful guy, Ron Munn, and he mentioned, he would always say, no lease, no grease. I don't know what the analogy is in in renewables, but no lease, no generation. I don't have to figure it out, but it was, it was you know the The land component of development, of renewable development um is is critical. we Everything is dependent on your ability to acquire the property, to build the project. um And in most cases, that's typically the first thing that one of the first things you you but you would do. So I would tell them a young person to so consider consider entering the the industry

32:52.88
Riean Norman
ah from the land perspective. I think it's it's a low barrier of of entry um you know to to be a land representative. you know there there's there's There's requirements, but it's a process that you can learn um and it gives you the skills to build upon. So once you understand ah why we're in a particular area, why we're taking this land as opposed to this land,

33:16.66
Riean Norman
um That's a great foundation to kind of move up to to the next level, if you choose now. We'll say there, you know being a land man is ah is a career a full career. You have people who have done this for 30 plus years and they're top experts kind of in in the field. So you fall in love with it, you can stay with it. But ah if you decide to kind of expand as it as as I did, it's a great ah foundation to to to build on.

33:45.11
carbtonic_admin
Totally agree. um Really appreciate the time, Ryan. Really enjoyed the conversation. I guess before we finish off, is there anything I should have asked you about but did not?

33:54.15
Riean Norman
Yeah, um not this has been great. I know that right now, Crow Holdings, we are Crow Holdings Renewables. ah we're We're in the market. We're two years old and we're... No, I'm stopped. I don't really have any. I don't have a plug. like Sorry, I apologize.

34:12.36
Riean Norman
oh

34:12.69
carbtonic_admin
and So so you could you just say, yeah, nothing really. um If you ah want to learn more about crow holdings, renewables, you know ah like reach out to us, and then I'll just say we'll include the contact details in the show notes.

34:25.71
Riean Norman
Okay, perfect. Yeah, no, not really. I think this is ah this has been great. um You know, we're, pro-holding renewables, we're always open to developing our relationships with other developers. So if you'd like to hear more about what we have going on, our opportunities to potentially partner, please feel free to reach out to me.

34:47.75
carbtonic_admin
Perfect, and we'll include your the contact details and and the links and all that in the show notes. Thank you very much, Ryan.

34:53.21
Riean Norman
Perfect, thank you.