Building Community Solar Success with Sarah Moon - E135

Sarah Moon, Co-Founder of FieldWorks Power, shares her career journey and expertise in the renewable energy sector. The conversation covers:

• Sarah’s path from studying geology to leading renewable energy initiatives at companies like Solstice Power Technologies and DSD Renewables.
• Strategies for community solar companies to enter and succeed in emerging markets, from policy advocacy to local community engagement.
• The role of lean teams and entrepreneurial spirit in driving innovation in distributed energy development.
• A future-focused vision for renewable energy, emphasizing accessibility, policy innovation, and economic impact.

Check out FieldWorks Power at https://fieldworkspower.com/.

FieldWorks Power is committed to reshaping the renewable energy landscape. Tune in now for an inspiring conversation on innovation, resilience, and the future of distributed energy!

Paces helps developers find and evaluate the sites most suitable for renewable development. Interested in a call with James, CEO @ Paces?

Transcript

00:01.88

James McWalter

Hello, today we're speaking with Sarah Moon, co-founder at FieldWorks Power. Welcome to the podcast.

00:07.09

Sarah Moon

Thank you, super happy to be here.

00:09.30

James McWalter

Brilliant. I guess to start, we'd love to hear a little bit about, you know, your career up to founding FieldWorks. You know, I know you've worked at some great product developers over the years. I guess to start, how'd you get into development in the first place?

00:22.32

Sarah Moon

Yeah, it's it's a great question. and And apologies, this is kind of a long story, because I've had a little bit of a roundabout entry into development. um But and you know actually, in in college, I studied ah geology, and earth earth history. And I thought I was going to get a PhD in it, and but decided that I, you know after writing my senior thesis, ah that I really liked working with people on a regular basis rather than just hanging out with rocks in a lab.

00:48.99

Sarah Moon

um And so it felt like i I needed to kind of make a quick pivot. um And at the time I had done an internship at a local Boston company, Enernok, which is now NLX, and was um really intrigued by you know the the product that they were you you know promoting, demand response, im really loving my work there. and I was like okay great I don't know what I'm gonna do with my life I know I'm not gonna get a PhD but maybe I can get a full-time offer here um and my boss at the time who actually now works at SISO so has stayed stuck around in the industry ah you know recommended that i I actually consider taking a different job opportunity which was um a a position at a company called McMaster car

01:34.04

Sarah Moon

So I took a hard pivot out of renewables. McMaster-Carr sold industrial supplies, and I was part of their management training program. But what my ah my boss at the time, a mentor, told me is um you know he suggested that I would get a really good foundational business experience working there. um you know By the time I left, I was managing a team of 40 people, my own little warehouse, basically. um I learned a ton about process improvement, learned a ton about how a long-standing you know company operates their family owned, they've been around for over 100 years, ah which, you know, my boss pointed out is, is very rare in renewable companies, right? Because it's a very new industry. And so, um you know, I think he was he was 100%, right? It was life changing advice for me to to go get that foundational business experience for a few years. And then once I was done, I was like, Okay, I'm ready to come back to renewable energy. I did my time over here. um You know, how where can I find my my landing spot? And at the time, um when I was looking and I was I was back in Boston,

02:33.03

Sarah Moon

I kept hearing about this new concept called community solar, which back in 2018-2019 was a really new idea.

02:40.41

James McWalter

Not as hot as now.

02:40.69

Sarah Moon

um Not as hot as now, exactly. They were really just a couple of markets. um You know, New York was, everyone everyone was still trying to figure out New York. Like, we didn't, nobody really understood it. It was the transition between phase one NEM and VEDR projects. And, you know, yeah, I was really um at the forefront, but so to speak, you know, even working on projects with forefront power in the early days of of community solar. So, um yeah, I i landed and and found my way into a position in community solar, which sounded like a fantastic idea to me. um you know it It was exactly the type of thing I wanted to be doing, the social good element, right? Increasing access to um the benefits of renewable energy, including discounted power, um you know the the choice to to choose where your energy is coming from, the benefits to local communities. And I loved the the sort of innovative product idea that how it was sort of disrupting the you know the the solar market and and filling this

03:36.63

Sarah Moon

void that existed between residential and utility scale. um So I took a business development role at Solstice Power Technologies where I worked with developers to subscribe their projects um and really enjoyed doing that. Solstice is a fantastic company um you know to to sort of get started with, learn from two great ah founders over there, Sandhya Murali and Steph Spears. And so that was probably a first glimpse into, okay, this is what it takes to be an entrepreneur, learning from them, which was a great foundation. And after after a great run at Solstice, um i I was really enjoying my role in in business development, working with developers.

04:19.08

Sarah Moon

and hearing the stories about how their projects were coming to fruition. um You know, I was really on the subscription side, but i I wanted to know more about how they got to the point where they were sort of NTP ready right and ready and ready to assign subscribers to those projects. So I decided the next um step I wanted to take in my career was on that development side. And I landed in a role at a large IPP, owner operator of community solar projects, but also commercial projects. And that was DSD renewables.

04:48.38

Sarah Moon

and sorry, this is going way long.

04:49.53

James McWalter

no no super

04:49.86

Sarah Moon

But while I was at DSD, I ran their community solar operation, essentially, right? So what new markets do we want to be in? How do we want those projects to come to fruition?

05:00.85

Sarah Moon

um You know, from the origination side, what do we want the offtake strategy to be? What do we want the financing strategy to be? um You know, which culminated in ah the first asset backed securitization of community solar projects that didn't that actually underwrote and didn't use FICO scores for

05:11.65

James McWalter

No, no.

05:18.47

Sarah Moon

residential subscribers. So I got a great exposure to the whole owner operator developer world there. And um yeah, i can I can take a beat if you have any questions about any of those stops along the way.

05:28.04

James McWalter

Yeah. No, absolutely. I want to get into a couple of them, and then and then we'll get on to FieldWorks. I guess there's one thing on Solstice. I'm actually just looking at the timeline. You started at Solstice the same month a member of our team left Solstice, Christy Young, who was in the sales team there. So ah so you know I think one of the interesting things about the industry, especially if we're talking you know four or five years ago, was just how small it was. right A lot of folks were kind of working at the same, you know fewer than 100 firms. um And you know I think it's it's so interesting that a lot of folks

06:00.00

James McWalter

you know, ah their entry into into this kind of development is often from real estate, or other types of development, but kind of coming in from the the kind of customer facing software piece for, you know, for on community solar side, um I think is is definitely on the rare kind of pathway in, I guess, like, how you know, how is that kind of affected, you know, your perspective, as you kind of think about developing projects?

06:24.15

Sarah Moon

Yeah, i I think it's really impacted me because, ah you know, at the end of the day, these projects are completely, you know, the value of them all comes from the subscribers, right, whether or not subscribers are are there, um you know, is is a huge part of whether you can get these projects across the finish line, you know, um to to commercial operation to financing, right, you you need that off take to be there. And in the early days of community solar projects, that was very much not a guarantee.

06:51.01

Sarah Moon

right? You know, it was it was not necessarily easy to to get out there and get in front of people and and convince people, even though this was such a great product of, you know, hey, you're gonna save money on your bill, there's no upfront costs, right? This is a way to go green when you can't write the vast majority of, um you know, the US population is locked out from doing rooftop solar, right? If you're a renter, um you know, if you if you don't have the money up front to or the credit score to get solar panels financed,

07:17.92

Sarah Moon

um or to purchase them outright, you know, the list goes on and on. So, um you know, it was we were like, oh, this is going to be so easy. This is an amazing product. And in reality, it it was a lot of education upfront, you know, there was definitely a this is too good to be true factor. um And I think also the fact that these projects are hyper local,

07:36.73

Sarah Moon

ah you know, just meant that the traditional sort of digital marketing strategy didn't necessarily work all that well and wasn't that scalable for community solar offtake. We had to do different approaches. And I think that was something Solstice did a really nice job of pioneering through partnerships, through, you know, tabling at different venues, you know, through making connections with these communities to to reach the specific people you needed to, because you need to be within the utility service territory or even closer depending on the the program.

08:06.05

James McWalter

Yeah, like B2C selling, it's just so much more difficult, at least, you know, for yeah my background's nearly always been B2B and I tried B2C once or twice. And, you know, I have such a kind of admiration for folks who manage to get not like 100 customers a year to to engage with your product, but maybe tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands or even millions. um You know, you're yeah the the kind of nest of, you know, folks,

08:32.05

James McWalter

perspectives what they their needs like all those kind of things trying to have to like get to a messaging get to a you know a direct product market fish around that is just like so difficult um and so impressive and you know when when when folks are able to achieve that um i guess so so you know i think you were you're still saying kind of more on the east coast at this point um and then you know when the dsd distribution or development opportunity came along i think that was that kind of prompted a move um i guess like you know There might've been like other development companies. What was kind of the the appealing thing and about the opportunity at DSD that that made you want to kind of jump on shore?

09:06.98

Sarah Moon

Yeah, I mean, ah first of all, I was blown away by the team, um you know, when I was interviewing, it was a really talented group of people, um you know, they had sort of spun out of G ah solar, um that was the the genesis and the team that that founded distributed solar development. And they they had a really great track record, I thought that the way that they thought about the business, um you know, made a lot of sense aligned with that background.

09:30.95

Sarah Moon

early background that I'd gotten at McMaster-Carr, sort of that long-standing company mindset of how to how to build a strong and and foundational and functional business. um They kind of were bringing that mindset into into what they were doing at DSD, and I i really resonated with that. um And then you know there were tons of great people who have now, um you know to your point about the the industry being small, have now spread across all kinds of different ah community solar operators um and CNI operators throughout the the industry. But you know, a couple of people that come to mind are like Cameron Bard, you know, who's now in leadership at Madison Energy Investments. You know, they' the the list just sort of goes on and on. And so I really felt like it was a team that I could learn from. And that was what I wanted. i It was still a, you know, foundational step in my career to to shift from the customer acquisition side of the business and servicing side of the business to

10:25.16

Sarah Moon

um you know being that long-term owner-operator as well as developer. And so um I think that very much proved out when I joined. And the other thing that I thought was great was they were, you know despite my lack of experience in the development and the operator side, they saw value in that foundational business experience that I had and the traction and and what I had built at Solstice and were willing to entrust a big portion of their you know business strategy you know to me.

10:50.85

Sarah Moon

and i I accumulated more responsibility as time went on and and got more and more involved in things. But, um you know, I was really in charge of the entire offtake strategy ah for the community solid portfolio and and sort of market strategy from the get go, um which was, ah you know, I've always been the kind of person who wants to jump into the deep end as a way to learn.

11:09.89

James McWalter

Right. Yeah, absolutely. And it's, you know, and when you when when you found something as as you end up doing at fieldworks, that's the deepest end of all, you know, I think one of the um ah take a pause here, I haven't thought of my head.

11:26.37

James McWalter

um

11:27.78

Sarah Moon

No worries.

11:30.51

James McWalter

um um so but yeah So, yeah, so, and the deep end of of going into, you know, founding a company is is the deepest of all. um I guess, like, when you were then, you know, thinking about, you know, you mentioned that a lot of folks have broken off and started their own things. Actually, this is this really interesting, the pace in the last two years, every year, about 10 to 50% of new paces Customers did not exist 12 months previous to them becoming a piece customer, right? And this is, you know, a lot of the big development shops, you know, DSD, Cypress Creek, ah you know, some EDF, AES, you know, EDPR, et cetera. You know, folks get like this incredibly strong um like capability in in a few different markets, get develop a strong perspective.

12:13.42

James McWalter

um And then often, you know, because I used to work at a big public company, ah there's a, you know, not every company can maybe be as nimble or have, ah you start to kind have all these kind of bureaucratic steps. So people are like, oh, maybe I could kind of, ah you know, take take a chance and and and go and start something myself. um I guess, you know, you started FieldWorks even around, I think, going on about 18 months now. You know, what was the initial prompt and what was it like starting FieldWorks?

12:39.36

Sarah Moon

Yeah, um that that's a great great question. And and yeah, i I guess a theme in my career is, yeah, always wanting to to take that next leap and and sort of getting that itch. And um a lot of times it's opportunity sort of presenting themselves. to you Sometimes you go out and find it, right? Like my transition from from industrial supplies to renewables, that was very intentional. you know The other ones were kind of time and place and you know when when sort of opportunities came up, um i you know I think I started to feel Like we had a gotten things into a really good place at DSD. And of course, there were new opportunities, new markets, right? You know, we were looking at the potential opening of the California market and trying to strategize how to do that. But we'd accomplished a lot of what we'd set out to accomplish and and things were sort of humming. We had found our customer acquisition partners, things were going great with that. We had some great commercial partners, you know, who were kind of resigning, you know, new new projects that we were putting forward.

13:31.77

Sarah Moon

um The financing was in a really good place and a lot of that, you know, sort of early stage education on new markets and things like that had been done, you know, our development portfolio was humming. So it felt like a good time to to sort of transition and then right when that happened, that was all that those feelings.

13:46.97

Sarah Moon

were happening to me right around the time that the Inflation Reduction Act passed, which is probably a theme you've you've heard um you know from a lot of different people. But I think it just was a, but you know and and obviously a little maybe sobering to talk about it now and the the heels of the election that just happened and and some of the news about potential threats to that legislation. But um you know at the time it was you know absolute gangbusters opportunity that was unprecedented and renewables. And it really made you know, me and my business partner start to sort of pick our heads up. We'd always kind of joked with one another about, you know, maybe trying to do our own thing at some point to your point.

14:21.36

Sarah Moon

When you get frustrated with the bureaucracy, you know even working at not a huge public company, but you know just a company that was growing and getting bigger, you can't always be as nimble or or take the chances that you want to take. um So you know on the heels of that happening and just seeing how much specific incentives were in there for DG projects, right like the low-income um economic benefit credit that existed, and then the interconnection costs being eligible, or IGC eligible just for five megawatt and below projects.

14:52.09

Sarah Moon

that all felt like a sort of remarkable once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. And if it kind of felt like if there was ever a time to to try to take the leap and and go and start something, that that was going to be it. And so we, um honestly, we ended up finding our investor because they kind of approached us around the same time. So it was very serendipitous. um you know We went out to the market and just made sure we weren't leaving a ah sort of better partnership on the table, but we ended up signing with um you know investor who will remain confidential at this point. um you know we're We're still a little bit in stealth mode on on some of those elements, but someone who was trying to branch into the DG space from you know being a primarily ah utility scale.

15:32.25

Sarah Moon

developer. And so they kind of wanted to to invest in us to do that. And, you know, they they were willing to to take the long view, especially, you know, our our thesis, um sorry to kind of bury the lead here, is that we want to go into to new markets ah yeah and and get there early and sort of establish um you know what what we like to refer to as pole position and be on the the sort of cutting edge of helping to develop and shape um the market as it's as the legislation is being passed, as the regulations are being written, um and be ready to sort of capitalize on that and that. What that enables us to do is um you know to to have access to better site selection, right to to do projects that that really make a lot of sense before interconnection queues are completely jammed up, although you know with the

16:21.11

Sarah Moon

We can get into this in a second, but the craziness of development that's happening in general, that's becoming hard to avoid even in new markets. um But you know we we really wanted to have have great sites, um you know be be a part of that shaping conversation, make sure we feel good about the investment before we you know continue to put development capital behind projects.

16:40.16

Sarah Moon

And um ah I'm losing my last train of thought with a third point, but I was going to say this is my brain happening to me big time.

16:47.81

James McWalter

A great science, great policy.

16:48.99

Sarah Moon

um Anyway, we just, yeah, we just wanted, we wanted to be early and we wanted to be ready to to capitalize on of those markets.

16:52.77

James McWalter

Yeah. google

16:58.87

Sarah Moon

And that all also, you know, the the whole point was to stay lean. So we're we're a really small shop. um You know, we have five people at our at our maximum at one point. um So we're we're trying to just operate operate as a small team.

17:10.15

Sarah Moon

and And, you know, that's part of the fun of being an entrepreneur too, right? Is to kind of get get out of that sort of bureaucratic environment.

17:17.96

James McWalter

Absolutely. Yeah. And I'd love to get it into the kind of like your perspective on on that particular strategy around new markets and how you kind of think about risk assessment. I guess, you know, I'm always kind of fascinated by that early moment where you kind of take the leap, right? um And so, you know, with with with our co-founder and Paces and Charles, you know, we had been kind of talking about potentially doing a project together. And there's literally this moment we snuck into this, we work in midtown Manhattan,

17:42.63

James McWalter

and we were whiteboarding and I was like in my head I was like we're we're going to start something together and then like within in a week we'd kind of set it to each other and we were like look if we could sign up a couple of you know initial letters of intent um that's like the signal and and and things then kind of moved on from there you know yeah I think you know we know your co-founder and partner, John, well as well. um And so, you know, you've been working together at DSD. um I guess like, you know, we, yeah you know, you're having lunch together, you know, what what was the kind of moment where like, okay, you know, we've been talking about this, this is interesting, but I guess that what was the moment where you're like, okay, you know, we're we're actually doing this. I'm always that like.

18:20.12

Sarah Moon

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I feel like John and I have worked together and had a great rap report really from the get go. And it's funny, when I was talking about being really impressed with the people I was meeting, um you know, even during the interview process and sort of evaluating DSD, John was one of the first people I i interviewed with actually, because he he was already working there. um and And we just hit it off from the get go. And i'll I remember so many weird details of that conversation just because I was like, oh, I really like how this guy thinks, um you know, and and really, really resonate with that. And that proved out, you know, we worked really closely together because he was um leading M and&A efforts, ah you know, at DSD. So every time they were looking to buy a community solar project, you know, we were hand in hand looking at that and and trying to make sure we understood the market and the valuation, right. And and what the offtake risk strategy was, you know, from my perspective and and policy strategy.

19:13.97

Sarah Moon

um you know, before we sort of, you know, but even put an offer out, right? um Early stage ah diligence. And then down the line, we work together to to diligence all those assets together too. So another thing we thought,

19:26.83

Sarah Moon

we wanted to bring to FieldWorks was knowledge of, you know, since DSD was both a developer and a buyer of of assets, um you know, if we choose to sell our projects at NTP, and sorry, this is an aside, I'll get back to your question in a second, we thought we would have, a we know knew we had a really good perspective on what um a sellable, financeable asset looks like that we can bring to the early stage development process. Long story short, you know, we we just, we've hit it off, um you know, the whole time that we worked together. And yeah, I think it was,

19:56.23

Sarah Moon

you know probably on the heels of working on an extremely difficult ah you know diligence process and and transaction closing um you know that it that had kind of been quarterbacked by you know the two of us and in a lot of ways that I was like, okay, I could see us building something together. It was sort of the two of us being in the trenches and then you know he he really was the one who spurred like, okay, I think the time could be now and would you be interested in doing this with me? and um I think it was a you know a Zoom call or something since we we at at the time live and currently live on other sides opposite ends of the country, which is difficult um to be founders, but I think it's the history and the longevity of our relationship that makes that element of it work.

20:37.55

Sarah Moon

so

20:38.42

James McWalter

Love to see it. And and and from the outside looking in, um it yeah it looks like an incredibly strong. um Let's get into then the, I guess, the strategy piece. So you've got to touch upon that. And you know you're coming into it, as you mentioned, with this very, very strong perspective on what good looks like for the given strategy that you guys have adopted.

20:56.46

James McWalter

And so, you know, there's, you know, exome of states right that have pretty well established communities or ah ah laws, then you have other states that might have laws that are at the house but you know who knows potentially when they get the Senate in the governor's office.

21:12.95

James McWalter

um You've other cases where, you know, ah you know, such and such a state generally follows what their neighbor is doing and maybe they don't even have a law and so on. um And I guess like one of the difficulties with ah having you know a frontier markets type strategy is ah you timelines, capital, all these kind of things.

21:31.10

James McWalter

right um yeah like i've I've joked in the past, it's like you know on some high horizon, like DG Solar and in Oklahoma is like a great play. But like it all depends on um um on what you're trying to do.

21:39.89

Sarah Moon

Yeah.

21:42.31

James McWalter

um And so I guess like how do you kind of think about risk assessment? you know How deep do you go into these markets in terms of trying to understand the policy, the timelines? um And then as like things ah adjust and iterate, you know how does those you know those updates allow you to kind of yeah know update your own mental model over and adjust your kind of risk assessment from there?

22:02.00

Sarah Moon

Yeah, no, it's it's a great question. um and And yeah, definitely, yeah to answer your one of the questions that you had in there, um we we are going really deep on these markets and on the policy to understand why, you know, to make sure that we have a really strong conviction that these these markets have that we are investing in have the potential to open. And a lot of times, you know, we're we're not one of the markets that we've been working in. We were really truly at the forefront of community solar wasn't even being discussed. And now, you know, it's a very robust

22:33.12

Sarah Moon

policy campaign, I you know won't name that state um just to not give away all of our business strategy, although people probably know it if they know me, because I talk about how much I love it all the time. um But you know ah in some of these other markets, we were kind of joining into an inflight policy campaign that we could kind of assess and see you know sort of how successful it had been, um you know what traction it had gained, maybe what what was left to to be done to get to the point of past legislation, um and and and make sure that we felt comfortable with the the momentum that was being built and and you know that we believed that there was a that maybe there were a few things that that needed to be solved. um you know But we had conviction that you know from from having a deeper understanding of the policy landscape, um that that that was going to be achievable. And of course, you you hit the nail on the head, right? like

23:25.87

Sarah Moon

our business model is a very high risk, high reward one, um you know, to go into a market that that doesn't have enabling legislation is, you know, it's ah it's a long play. And that's why we had to find a capital partner who was willing to invest with us. On that front, being partnered with a utility scale investor has certainly helped in that regard, right, because they understand long timelines in a way that a lot of the people in the DG space don't, ah you know, which would just been really helpful. But, um you know, I think To be frank, and and maybe this is a little bit of a hot take, um you know kind of getting ahead of myself there, the community solar industry as a whole really depends on these markets continuing to expand, right? Like the amount of capital that's been invested, and you could probably extend this to to all kinds of DG as well, right? Any distribution connected, interconnected um you know project of our scale,

24:19.61

Sarah Moon

We need policy to continue to pass and regulation to support you know these markets advancing for the health and the industry as a whole. um So it's it's not just field works out there advocating for for these policies to pass. It's a whole host of developers, um you know as well as a number of very important coalition partners who who have now sort of become dependent on this as well. um you know One market, this is this isn't a secret. um you know It's very public that we're we're working very actively in this market is is Wisconsin.

24:46.77

Sarah Moon

ah you know there's there's no competition in the Wisconsin market today, right? There's no third party owned generation whatsoever. It's it's all owned by the investor owned utilities or at least in their territories, right? The co-ops and the municipal utilities are a little bit different. um And so I would say Wisconsin's at a little bit of ah a breaking point. um And you know the the legislature there is frustrated by, you know, rate increase over rate increase. And the Republican, it's a Republican legislature, both in in the Assembly and the Senate, they have the majority.

25:23.89

Sarah Moon

and Republicans at the party of right competition, open free markets, and you know what they what they have in Wisconsin is completely the the opposite of that. And I think people really resonate with the idea of you know energy freedom, energy choice. ah There's also a lot of frustration in Wisconsin over the fact that all the utility scale projects are cited at the state level. um So you know they're all owned by the utilities, right? The utilities are involved in the you know permitting um you know and approvals of those projects.

25:55.78

Sarah Moon

um Oftentimes, sometimes they're doing build on ah transfers, but um you know there I would say it's kind of a meeting the moment element of policy and policy can can kind of feel completely frustrating at times and and out of your control, right?

26:05.28

James McWalter

Yep.

26:11.38

Sarah Moon

Because because a lot of that um yeah yeah It does rely on having momentum and and right timing and right opportunities. But I think you know what we're seeing um in Wisconsin is that you know people do people do want to see a change, and especially through like a lot of hard work and education and meeting with legislators. And we're seeing other members of the coalition, members of the business community, um you know kind of reach a breaking point on this front too, as well as the legislature.

26:44.24

Sarah Moon

right and Walmart has joined our coalition, has been advocating for community solar in Wisconsin because they literally have no access to any kind of retail choice, right any any repercussions against rising energy rates and a way to you know control where their energy is coming from. you know They're completely boxed out in that front. so That's a long-winded example of why you know we we sort of chose in a state like Wisconsin, and why we believe you know with the right investment, the right education, you know that that moment will come for the policy to kind of come and and turn. ah But we've also diversified across states in case our bet on Wisconsin is wrong. um you know We are focused primarily on early stage markets. we've We've got a little bit of investment in existing markets just to

27:27.20

Sarah Moon

further hedge our bets, but um you know we know our our success as a business relies on getting some of these new markets opened because we just, as a three, five person team, it's hard to compete in the longstanding open markets.

27:41.04

James McWalter

Yeah, it's really interesting. and One of the kind of things, ah you know, we've marked, I'm not sure if you're in, but, ah but maybe not like California, Arizona, right. So, you know, you have these kind of, like, let's say negative for community solar, ah like, you know, laws and and legislation passed and voted those states in like the last.

27:59.24

James McWalter

24 months, you know, California more recently, Arizona last year, you know, which kind of, you know, ah had a had negative effect in various ways. And one of the things that um I just, you know, work with hedge funds and give them data and they were like, you know, there for them frontier markets would be, you know, betting on the equity and dash of, you know,

28:18.02

James McWalter

you know, individual countries like Malaysia and like those kind of things. And one of the things they would look for is where they're correlated moves on macro point of view and where they're like uncorrelated moves, right? And so, you know, if you're in Wisconsin, there might be slightly more kind of correlation between a neighboring Midwestern states, right? No positive negative um versus, you know, something like Florida, right? Which, you know, there's a Florida, Floridian legislature, like do anything, you know, or they have any relationship with Montana, right? Like they they probably don't.

28:46.87

James McWalter

um yeah Is that true? like ah you know is is is Are these kind of like jurisdictions, are they looking at each other? you do you know As one state goes in one direction, do these other kind of neighboring states um try to look at that and then adopt good practices you know or or maybe kind of try to avoid bad practices and how does that kind of picture like play out?

29:07.74

Sarah Moon

Yeah, it's ah it's a great question. And I would say definitely these states are looking at one another um as a comparison point and ah as an education point. um You know, I think energy, we have a weird energy market in the US, right, where a lot of this stuff is is state mandated or state chosen or regionally chosen, right. And so I think there's a lot of um you know ah of sort of comparing and and thinking about um you know upstream downstream effects of what's happening and in other states ah you know and and other ISOs. um And so I think you know there there are even formal sort of communities and structures for that to happen, ah like NARUC, right? um you know So all the commissioners are getting together and talking about issues. So 100%, these things can be correlated um you know with one another. And there there's definitely comparison. And I do think when

29:56.41

Sarah Moon

when we lose in a market, right, and and we don't get ah get it done or there's ah a sort of hit to community solar, um you know, it can it can have a big impact. And I think and in California, for example, um you know, that's why the commission, you know, potentially challenging the sort of legal framework for a community solar was was such a risk and they were completely off the mark. Right. But even them floating something like that.

30:20.71

Sarah Moon

you know, was was something that made us very nervous, I think, as an industry, because we, you know, we didn't want that to start to get wind in other states and and gain traction, um you know, and and cause people to get cold feet on really positive progress that we've been making, um you know, to to open different community solar markets. ah You know, other examples, Maine, you know, all the controversy there over, you know, cost of that program. um You know, I think, I think a lot of it's been disproven, but there's, you know, bad press,

30:50.57

Sarah Moon

A lot of times legislators, they're covering a hundred different issues in a given day, right? And they they can only go so deep on on anything. So they hear about community solar and a staffer does some Googling or the utility handsome and opposition piece that says, you know look at all this bad press that community solar is getting in Maine or or Minnesota. um you know that's That's something that they're gonna listen to. And so I do think that it's really important for us as an industry This isn't totally answering your question, but it's something I think about a lot.

31:18.69

Sarah Moon

We have to be thoughtful in the industry about getting ahead of those things and and designing good policy.

31:19.14

James McWalter

No.

31:24.29

Sarah Moon

ah but I'm saying these states are bad, but you know trying to to set good examples that other states can look at that have programs that have a lot of But yeah longevity to them right that are not just going to be flashes in the pan that don't go anywhere because you know they've they've got problems um you know that are going to come back to bite later when customers get upset or you know utilities get upset or or different things. um So yes, I do think ah do think these these things can be correlated. um you know and it it is part But I also think each state

31:58.15

Sarah Moon

really looks at their own energy policy with the unique viewpoint and that, you know, at the end of the day, they're going to decide what's right for their state. And, you know, we have to make that compelling case of here's a community solar program and policy that works well for Wisconsin. And that's going to be different than what's in Illinois and and here's why. um So I do think they they do move independently as well.

32:19.62

James McWalter

And I guess what we've seen in some jurisdictions where these kind of ah laws as they move through legislation, there's an effort to try to pull in stakeholders ah from certain communities. I know some of these laws, ah you know and areas of Appalachia that have been you know hit hard by the industrialization and so on, you know there are carve outs or particular incentives around brownfields and some of these some of these state programs that are being proposed and so on. um Yeah. and and And kind of like, I think you touch a little bit on this but, you know, some of the, some of the states also have like state permitting, right, and then you have like the local jurisdictional permitting right and you know Massachusetts, you know, pass some regulations a couple months ago, you know, which I know you spend a number of years there.

33:05.92

James McWalter

um and I was very surprised, and and you know, we don't think get too controversial, but I was very surprised at how procea was on ah the the change in rules.

33:12.77

Sarah Moon

Mm hmm.

33:14.12

James McWalter

Because I was looking at this and I was like, okay, i I can see it for utility scale, right? There's not a ton of utility scale solar happening in mass, like there just isn't the land. And the amount of, you have now three new state offices to navigate ah to get through permitting for, you know, anything that's below 25 megawatts.

33:28.77

James McWalter

And I was like, ah you know, it's good to add it's more streamlined than you don't have to do as much on the local level. But you do still have to now jump through and you have all these kind of soft costs and that navigate this kind of state level structure.

33:40.08

James McWalter

And you know, one of the things a lot of developers we work with are like often, you know, having a high degree of flexibility with the permitting being on the local level actually is a big unlock, right?

33:48.20

Sarah Moon

Mm hmm.

33:49.09

James McWalter

Because then you're especially if you are in a new market, the arbitrage opportunities are very high. You can often go into the community and maybe help write to like you know write the ordinance in a way that's pro the first couple of projects. um So how do you, you know, I guess you think about like this balance between, you know, streamlining is great at the state level, but like if the law is like two circumspects, then maybe it actually limits like developers' opportunities.

34:12.91

Sarah Moon

Yeah, this is this is a topic I think about a ton. And it's a conversation I'm having with legislators almost, you know, every week, right? Because, you know, ah there is a big push, I think, especially in places where utility skilled developers have run into a lot of um roadblocks with with local opposition.

34:29.73

Sarah Moon

and And some of the local opposition is just, it's, it's, it's impossible to combat, right? They've just decided that they hate solar, um you know, nothing, there's nothing to be done. There's organized opposition,

34:40.16

James McWalter

Solars and drones in the sky. It's it's you know, it's yes.

34:42.09

Sarah Moon

Exactly.

34:43.36

James McWalter

Yeah

34:44.87

Sarah Moon

I shouldn't laugh because I i do think, you know, there's there's some legitimate fear. and And I think a lot of times that's created and and spurred on by um outside groups, right, who are intentionally kind of trying to create that fear of people who go from county or jurisdiction to jurisdiction and um try to get them to oppose solar, which is a crazy concept.

35:03.01

Sarah Moon

I have a number of thoughts. I'll try to go through them in order. So the Massachusetts thing is actually really interesting to me because you know in some of these Midwestern states that we're going into and and developing in, um you know we're going to these rural communities and we're going to them and telling them that.

35:17.77

Sarah Moon

you you know, solar is going to be so good for you, right? it's It's good for the health of your communities, especially with community solar. This is a way for your municipal buildings and, you know, other members of your community to get some relief on crazily high electricity bills, especially, you know, right now. in massachusetts And Massachusetts is wild at the moment. um and And, you know, I feel very good about what we're saying and and the conversations we're having with our, um with these communities. And I really believe in them.

35:45.24

Sarah Moon

but i'm from massachusetts and i'm actually from western massachusetts the bursars which is you know if you look at that solar potential of the state. Western masses is where most of the land is right you know it's it's very wooded and and things like that but a lot of the technical potential for solar exists in my community and my community is a pretty.

36:05.49

Sarah Moon

quiet. um you know I definitely wouldn't say rural. you know Nothing in Massachusetts is 100% rural. But if there is a part of Massachusetts that's rural, that's that's what it is. um And you know i I've seen, ah you know my parents ah are hugely pro-redewable people.

36:23.14

Sarah Moon

But there was a project that was set to go in across the street from them that was going to tear down woods that they walk in every day. And they were really opposed. you know And so it's it's the first time that I kind of had to look at myself and and look at sort of the siting bill and in my history and my upbringing and be like, do I believe in everything? Like, if if a solar project was going next door to me, how would I feel about it? you know and And really put myself in the other person's shoes. And and I think it's been a really good exercise. And you know I do think I think Massachusetts, from what I've heard from the people on the ground there, haven't done a project in Massachusetts in a long time. It's become really, really, really difficult to to get anything done. And so I do think you need innovations like this, but yeah, you're absolutely right. it can't and Sometimes it can cause you know more more difficulty than than it's worth and by far the best.

37:12.66

Sarah Moon

approach if you can make it work is to go local. right um you know It's so much better for the communities. And that's actually something that we're using in a lot of the states that we're working in where we're bringing community solar you know to those states is these are all going to be lurk locally permitted because most of the time their size is underneath um you know any any state siting. That's the case in this Michigan, for example. And that's something that really resonates with a lot of Republicans is giving these communities back a choice and some element to development.

37:45.41

Sarah Moon

So for what that's worth.

37:46.04

James McWalter

Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, saying yes in my backyard is, you know, it's, it's, it's easy as a slogan, but, you know, actually doing it. Um, and like, there's a large development, uh, like I live in a city, but there's large development that came up on the corner and I'm just like, yes, you know, I am, this is great.

38:02.24

James McWalter

Even if I don't love it, I'm like, yes, I am so positive about it. Right. Because, you know, uh, you have to be.

38:06.57

Sarah Moon

You have to be. yeah You have to you have to eat yep you have to ah put your money where your mouth is. yeah

38:13.32

James McWalter

hundred percent 100%. Well, Sarah, this has been absolutely amazing. um Really enjoyed the conversation. I guess before we finish off, is there anything I should have asked you about but did not?

38:22.89

Sarah Moon

I don't know. I think this was a really interesting conversation. I guess I'm sure you're talking to a lot of people about this, but one parting thought, I guess I'll i'll end with some optimism.

38:35.85

Sarah Moon

you know i I do think even though no community solar markets, except for Alaska, Alaska opened a community solar market in the last year, which is amazing, and I was actually a part of that.

38:43.77

James McWalter

We used to have a joke that was like, we'll cover all the United States except Alaska, because no one's going to ask for Alaska. But that is now changing for us as well. so

38:52.40

Sarah Moon

Yes, yes i was I was actually working with um some of the people who who brought that bill to to fruition, which was a really proud moment for me, the first Republican state to pass community solar legislation, which which is a big deal. um But other than that, no new community solar markets opened in the past year, and you know and and not a lot of an investment for the for the industry. And I think some people are taking that as a sign of pessimism, but I think um There's a lot of reason to be optimistic about the community solar industry. I'm extremely bullish on, um you know, new markets opening and, and you know, I think there's there's some headwinds, ah you know, and and maybe a different type of solution is needed, right, or some tweaks to our our initial model to your point, you know, leaning into more things like argovoltaics.

39:36.53

Sarah Moon

brownfields really differentiating ourselves even more than just our scale um you know from from some of the utility solar installations since we do provide such a different solution. But everything I'm hearing on the ground is that there's ah a huge amount of support um in these states for for community solar and it's just a matter of finding the right political path forward. So I'm ending on optimism and you know i'm I'm very hopeful that the inflation reduction act will um continue to stand in in a lot of the important ways as well.

40:04.78

James McWalter

yeah' I'm quietly hearing that a lot of the incentives will stand, but maybe there's a few fossil incentives thrown in the end of next year, but we'll see how it goes. And and maybe maybe we have two or three new communities or states going into 2025 or by the end of 2025. Thank you so much. It's been great.

40:20.60

Sarah Moon

Yeah, this has been great. Thank you so much, James.