The best way to support this show is by listening and sharing with a friend. If you would like to buy a coffee or bubble tea, we would love that too.
----
Instagram @shitwedonttellmom
Email: shitwedonttellmom@gmail.com
Send us an audio message by clicking here!
----
We use Buzzsprout as our host because they seamlessly link to major podcast platforms and make it really easy to read analytics. They also have an awesome support team. Sign up today and get a $20 Amazon gift card!
We also use Descript as our editing software because editing with text is much easier than with soundwaves. We are not audio geniuses and want to focus our energy on creating content rather than editing. Sign up today and get your first 3 months free!
Yes these are affiliate links because we like them and we use them too.
The best way to support this show is by listening and sharing with a friend. If you would like to buy a coffee or bubble tea, we would love that too.
----
Instagram @shitwedonttellmom
Email: shitwedonttellmom@gmail.com
Send us an audio message by clicking here!
----
We use Buzzsprout as our host because they seamlessly link to major podcast platforms and make it really easy to read analytics. They also have an awesome support team. Sign up today and get a $20 Amazon gift card!
We also use Descript as our editing software because editing with text is much easier than with soundwaves. We are not audio geniuses and want to focus our energy on creating content rather than editing. Sign up today and get your first 3 months free!
Yes these are affiliate links because we like them and we use them too.
I kinda adjust anything. So
Angie Yu:So now Christie, you're too low.
Kristy Yee:Okay. How about now?
Steve Ngo:That's better.
Kristy Yee:1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7,
Angie Yu:So
Steve Ngo:it in post. That's the
Angie Yu:fixing them
Kristy Yee:That's you know what? Fuck it. Just post, post everything everything's in post. Okay.
Steve Ngo:I'm excited for this. I appreciate this. And you guys are the best. You'd see the best
Kristy Yee:okay. are we good to go? Alrighty then welcome back to another episode of shit. We don't tell mom where we get comfortable with the uncomfortable. And today we're going to be talking with Steve. No, who is our dear friend. And he, okay. This is going to take a while. And if you could hear clicking sounds because I have this whole spiel for Steve, because he's like this whole other human that I sometimes don't know if he's really a human, because, okay, so here we go, Steve. He is a self-proclaimed social entrepreneur. So what does that mean? That means he is a founder slash co founder to a crap ton of non-profit organization. of which include beyond the a, which helps to de-stigmatize anxiety in the legal profession and empower lawyers in their careers. There's the living room series, which has been mentioned on the podcast a couple of times already, probably more than a couple. but the living room series, what is it? It is basically we hang out and we talk about whole bunch of just stuff that you don't really talk about. We have meaningful conversation with diverse groups of people. Basically Steve brings in all these people from around the community, people, strangers, basically. And then we come together and we talk about deep stuff. And most recently Steve has led a campaign on anti-Asian hate crime reporting. found out that there is a huge systemic barrier to reporting and Thai, Asian hate crimes in the Vancouver community. And now he's all over the place. He's all over the news. He is also a lawyer. He's a musician. He is a husband and he is our good friend. Welcome Steve to the show.
Steve Ngo:You did awesome. I love it. I'm glad to be here. Thank you so much. What an intro? You should do my intro for every single talk
Kristy Yee:Oh, I'd love to, I have this like secret secret fantasy that I want to do voice overs one day. You know, I just want to do voice stuff all the time. Oh,
Angie Yu:that.
Kristy Yee:Steve's also a TEDx speaker by the way, because you know, he just doesn't do enough. And so in his spare time, he likes to give speeches. Steve, that was a lot of stuff. I, I am truly honored to be friends with you because I get to see all the cool things that you do. And it really motivates me as a human being to do more things. But I always wonder, do you ever get tired?
Steve Ngo:Do I ever get tired? Yeah. I lost a lot yesterday. Like fell asleep on my seat, just here, like at like 1130. I was like, like this, I called it meditating. Maybe I think I was sleeping.
Kristy Yee:Sometimes when I meditate, I end up falling asleep. Why I ask this is because I feel like, okay, on social media, this is that's where I mostly see your work. And on social media, you're always doing something. And then you take it to a whole other level. you were a victim of some hate crimes recently. I think if that happened to me, I would have ranted about it on social media. And then I would, you know, get some comments and feedback from friends and say like, oh yeah, that really sucks. And blah, blah, blah. Right. But you took it to a whole fucking other level. You like got the media involved. It's now on the globe and mail, like, it has blown up in a way that is, should be blown up. And he's on the cover of the Vancouver sun. that's Steve compared to regular folks like me, but I always wonder behind the scenes, what is that like?
Steve Ngo:Yeah, let's dive into it. I'm happy. I'm happy to peel the layer back and go deep though. Happy to jump in and wherever you want to start.
Kristy Yee:Why don't you tell us a bit about how beyond the AA got started? Because I know offline, you had mentioned some anxiety in the past, there's been some low points, and this is something that I don't see on social media from Steve's page, because I just see all these campaigns that you run. I feel like I would be very burnt out if I were involved in so many things, but I also feel like maybe Steve does get really tired and Steve might feel some levels of anxiety at times as well. And seeing that you had started beyond the AE makes me wonder there must have been something that had happened for you to feel like. is important to talk about, especially in the legal profession.
Steve Ngo:Really there's, there's two things I want to highlight in the middle of the first thing is whether it's getting tired or not. It gives us the realization. If you're doing things that give you energy. awesome. Like, so speaking of the TV, give me energy is this is like the highlight of mine, like night. I had that my day actually. So it's really about that. but the second one on, beyond the AI. So for myself, I, I, when I was an undergrad, I thought about being a doctor, like a typical Asian kid and that wasn't for me. So I decided to be a lawyer. Why not? so I went to law school. I worked at one of the, probably one of the most so-called prestigious law firms in Canada. and I was feeling miserable and I thought maybe I need to chase something bigger. So I landed a job at one time. Prestigious law firms in the world, thinking that that would be my solution to happiness. And when you're chasing these visuals, these dreams of what you think is happiness. That's whenever they crushed me inside. So about maybe a couple months into my time working in Asia, I had this ex-pat lifestyle and I was living this big life. I had VIP access to parties, waterfront and apartments. like I private driver, but really I was dying inside and there was this one moment. I remember I was actually standing on the ledge of my balcony, seriously thinking about whether I wanted to keep living or not. And that's when I realized that. Man things have really changed and no one really talks about anxiety in the profession. No one talks about depression when legal profession, it's all about this glamour, this nice suits, lifestyle, your jet setting, you have like free flow alcohol and food, but really that's just a shell when inside work on the insides and talk about things like that. There's nothing. And so I was crumbling inside and I was so fortunate to have really good friends that I could turn to because I say, I talked to my best friends, like this is what's happening right now. And it gave me a big wake up call and it just so happened that week. I had a buddy fly in from Vancouver and I shared with them, I'm going through. And he said, Stephen, I'm going through the same thing as well.
Kristy Yee:Yeah.
Steve Ngo:And it just opened up my mind. There must be other lawyers who are keeping this inside. And so that's what beyond the A's about it. Censored beyond A's beyond achievement, beyond anxiety. Because anxiety is so stigmatized and legal profession and the whole purpose and mission is to de-stigmatize anxiety and to empower lawyers to thrive in their lives and career.
Kristy Yee:take us back to that night when you were on the balcony and you felt like you had the whole world, because you have all this glitz, you have all the glamour that suits stuff that we're familiar with, but you also felt so empty. Those are two opposing feelings. Can you share a little bit more about what are some of your thoughts and emotions in that moment when you were on the belt?
Steve Ngo:Yeah. So I think it was a slow, it was a slow burn, right? It was a slow buildup to that moment. It wasn't like suddenly that, boom, this is what's happening, but it was a slow buildup. And so just to, to backtrack a little bit. I was living in Vietnam and, you know, I started chasing these external validations to make myself feel better. And I felt like I was chasing the, really the wrong goals that week. And that night when it happened, I was on a couple of massive deals. And because you're working on so many things at the same time, I was barely sleeping. I was like collapsing on my table, like going from two to six in the morning, like sleeping four hours. And I made a mistake that day at work. absolutely my fault because there's so many things going on. I wasn't in the right mind space and I suddenly questioned like, am I good enough to be a lawyer? Do I deserve to be here? And it really crushed my soul. And then you start to, everything starts to unraveling at that point, you know, I'm someone who does carry a very positive demeanor. I had this happy-go-lucky attitude and it made me, it gave me this really shock in my system that this affects anybody, anybody, absolutely. Anybody. You could have this rockstar apparently from the surface. It just shows that there is, you know, there's a facade and that's kind of what I want to open up about it is that there is a facade in the way things come across and it's okay to talk about it.
Angie Yu:I have goosebumps. It felt like your emotions were kind of coming up again, because I really felt the emotions through the screen. You were like, you know, everything is just a facade. Like every, everyone has stuff going on behind them. Yeah. That's exactly what beyond EI is trying to emphasize. That's exactly what our podcast is trying to emphasize. And yet it happens in whether you're, you're trying to look like the Wolf of wall street, or if you're trying to look like the perfect Asian son or, you know, we all, we all have this stuff. That's stuff, the shit just bubbling inside. Yeah.
Kristy Yee:I think social media. we don't have to be the ones to say how stressful it can be, but also how great it can be. Right. And there's this, there's a facade that we do put on and sometimes it's a conscious thing. I, you know, you, you're gonna take a bunch of nice pictures and post it on, on Facebook. Like there's a very intentional thing. Sometimes I think, you know, we do it subconsciously because we want the validation. And so we only choose to put in. Genuine parts of ourselves, but selective lead, genuine parts of ourselves. So, Steve, you mentioned like, you know, your, you present yourself as a happy-go-lucky person. I think you truly are a happy-go-lucky person because I feel your happiness and your enthusiasm exuding out of your body. Like some aura surrounding you, you know, like there's this glow and that's real, you know, like your smile that's, that's real. But I think what's important is that that's not the only Steve.
Angie Yu:that's Right. Yep.
Kristy Yee:And I think for any of our listeners out there, you know, when we're scrolling through our social media and we see people's happy relationships, people's like wonderful jobs, big houses. We know that, you know, we're happy for them and they probably worked really hard for it. But we don't, really see what's behind closed doors
Angie Yu:You don't see the drudgery of everyday life in other people's life, but you experienced the drudgery in your own life if you don't really internalize the fact that everything you see from other people, not just social media or just the way they are, it's not really a facade. It's, it's just a part of them that everybody else sees. And I think that's the, that's the one thing that I think our generation is learning as we're getting older, is that, Hey, there's this other side of me, or like, it's difficult to be on all the time. It's still real. It's that's still their house. That's still their baby. That's still their wedding, but that's only a small portion of their entire life because their value is beyond a big house or a baby or a wedding.
Kristy Yee:And also like that snapshot, that happy moment, snapshot is just that snapshot. Like, it's that one happy moment in their life, but there's 24 hours in a day. Like they don't look like that all the time.
Angie Yu:Yeah, everyone only has 24 hours a day. Despite what Steve might have you think about his his hour.
Steve Ngo:you both said it's so well. Right. And it's, and really leading to that point. And I love the work that you're doing with this podcast. You are creating space and you are too honestly super endearing friends of mine at that time when I was in that moment, everyone's life seemed so perfect. And I thought that it was just here's the thing. I thought that it was just me. Maybe I was the weird one. Maybe I was the one who, who, who, who has this? I'm supposed to be happy. Right? I have this crazy lifestyle I could jets at anywhere. I don't mean to break here. Right? I could jets air. I want maybe it's just me. Why am I feeling this way? And that's what caused that doubt. It starts to spiral because at that time, three, four years ago, I don't even remember three years ago, three years ago, stuff like this wasn't even taught develop in the legal profession. Not just anybody, especially legal profession. It blew my mind because last month beyond a we hosted a talk with the law society of BC. That's actually been my goal since I started being on a is to actually address the law
Angie Yu:Wow.
Steve Ngo:And I talked to Lausanne at BC law society of Ontario. They would never have this kind of talk. And I invited judges invited some really top notch lawyers to share their experience. And the one story that someone shared was their wife was pregnant and they actually brought their laptops at a hospital in between contractions. He was doing work and writing. How messed up is that?
Angie Yu:Wow.
Steve Ngo:even a couple of years ago. No one talked about it and that's what I want to do because I know for a fact don't get me wrong. It's still a dark times, but I thought it was just me at that time. And I think if I had that avenue heard that talk, I would have been a catch myself a little earlier.
Kristy Yee:are you managing your anxiety right now, Steve?
Steve Ngo:It's it's. So since that moment it's been definitely a journey to really understand myself. And I started to really read, not just books on business and how to communicate, but books on yourself, books on understanding who I am. And at that time living room stairs was still going on. And that was so helpful. Right. but a lot of it is journaling understanding what gives me energy, talking to the YouTube gives me energy. I'm not tired at all. Actually I could do this like all day, but there's stuff that does drain you. And how do you counterbalance that? Right. Just being hyper aware. Also another thing that I'm doing, I'm very cognizant of it. It's just surrounding myself with people, the right people, and just seeing who gives you energy, who dreams. I think it's a conscious, conscious thing that I'm doing in it. You both are experts at this, so I don't need to be preaching to the choir here, but that's
Angie Yu:Whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa,
Kristy Yee:not experts display everybody. Just.
Angie Yu:whoa. Our motto is, is that, Hey, we're not experts here. Like this is literally like one of our souls. We're not experts, but we're going to talk about it anyway.
Steve Ngo:I must say, not experts, but I must say that, you know, even Angie, like I think last year, I think I was going through some shit I'd work too. And you're the one of the first people I called and that's, cause I know that you give the space to listen. So what do you mean extra? Like maybe x-rayed in my mind as friends that I know I can turn to. And there's friends that I've started to distance away from. I don't mean to name names, but I don't really see them anymore because I know that we're just talking about drinking and beers and I used to be that guy too. Don't get me wrong. I still am parts of it still that that's still part of you. Okay. There's still that party side of me don't get me wrong. Right. I'm not faking any of this, but it's just whether you can have that kind of conversation, right.
Angie Yu:I'm, I'm glad I was able to be there to hear you out. I didn't even think of it as like anything special, cause I know that you would do the same for me
Kristy Yee:but that's the thing, right? Like when, when we are being a friend to another friend, we are happily there to be an ear to be a shoulder because we love that other person, but we never really think about how impactful it is for the person receiving it on the other end. We're just doing it because we love them. Right. It's like no big deal. Right. If any one of you call me, I'm like, yeah, let's, let's talk. And, and if I call any one of you, because I feel really shit, it is so much more meaningful on my end. I mean, I'm sure it's great on your end too, but it, you know, just like how Steve you're, you were mentioning, like when you were back in Vietnam, you were lucky to have a great friend around at that time. It's almost like serendipity. That your friend from Vancouver came all the way to the other side of the world where you felt super isolated on your own, even though you're surrounded by glitz and glamour, but they were there for you and you were able to talk it through. And how impactful was that conversation to hear that your friend was also going through the same thing?
Steve Ngo:Words, can you even describe how impactful it is? Right. When you're in the thick of things, it's so easy to it's. So it's always so easy to say, oh, just do that, do that. But when you're in the midst of it, you're in a spiral and we all go through spirals and it just, that's just part of life too. Right. And if anything, that COVID has taught all of us, whether I'm grateful for or not, is that mental health is real anxiety and depression is real and it affects each and every single one of us. And that's also the beauty. I honestly think that this generation, I don't need to be like those old guys, his generation. Right. But this period of time, there's a lot of self-awareness, which is way more than what it was in the past when, in our parents' path and our mom or dad. Gosh, if we don't tell her mom, right, they keep it a silent. It's like, it's like a shell. There's a stone in front of them. They're just the heart.
Angie Yu:Yeah. That's right. And you know, what's funny when you said, like you came back from Vietnam, you felt this like urge to just really find out more about yourself. So you were, you've been reading all of these books of like self-help books. And I read a lot of self-help books, but I hate calling themselves. Because it shouldn't be like you're helping yourself. We should just be part of your life. I guess it is like, like they should be rebranded to like self care or even just life,
Kristy Yee:life books.
Angie Yu:life
Kristy Yee:I read life
Angie Yu:yeah, I read a book because it makes us sound like it makes us sound like you have a problem,
Kristy Yee:Ah. Okay.
Angie Yu:but I don't like that because it shouldn't have to be late as a problem for you to be like, you know what? I want to learn how to be a better listener. I want to learn how to connect with myself better or connect with other people better. Or I want to know how to journal. I want to know, know how to like connect with the side of me. Why does it have to be a problem before we can do it? Like you go to the bookstore and I say this because I just went to the bookstore earlier this week. So this is all in my head. You go to the bookstore, right? You see sections like lifestyle. Okay. You walk over to lifestyle. What do they tell how you had to do, how do you cook? How do you garden? How do you, I don't know, fashion, stuff like that. and yeah. Okay. That's lifestyle. But then you go over to the self-help book and there's this like ominous tone, Like, lifestyle. It's like, oh, glitzy, glamor. Like, oh my God, let's cook all these fantastic things. Look at all my plants. And then you walk over to the self-help section as just like gray. It's like welcome. Come to the nihilistic corner of chapters in the go.
Kristy Yee:Like, oh, your life sucks. Here's the place to be
Angie Yu:Oh, you've hit rock bottom. Let us introduce you to our top five recommendations. Like what.
Steve Ngo:Okay.
Angie Yu:Like we determined, normalized self-help stuff more because it's not self-help, it's just, Yeah. It's life.
Steve Ngo:Yeah. I like to call it personal growth and personal development. Actually, if you don't read those books, you're actually at a disadvantage. That's how I see it.
Angie Yu:That's very lawyerly. Just kidding.
Kristy Yee:with Steve on this one.
Angie Yu:I agree. As well, especially when I hear about what the younger generations are up to, I feel like, you know, maybe for our parents generation, we're more ahead of them in terms of, I don't know, technology, et cetera. We're understanding the internet. And I feel the younger kids, they grew up like learning about emotional intelligence, like truly learning about emotional intelligence and how to apply it. Not just like, oh, this is what emotional intelligence is. So we're falling behind. If we don't do the work ourselves and then we won't be able to connect with it.
Kristy Yee:I'm going to bring it back to this whole social media facade thing. You, you do all these things. You like create all these organizations and now. And you're like, oh, I just pass out on the couch. I just pass out on the table. I have all these things
Angie Yu:I can sleep with my eyes open while writing contracts.
Kristy Yee:Something else that I see a lot on your social media is you and your wife have this fabulous relationship, but you guys go on these like random mini vacations and go to vineyards. And like, you guys look like, like the couple, you know, and I've met your wife a few times. She's the lovely person I'm sure on the back end. There's more than what meets the eye. Tell us, tell us more about what your relationship is like with, with your wife?
Steve Ngo:This is so funny because the moment he said that she came home, I could hear her humming in the background. It was so timely.
Kristy Yee:No, I sensed her.
Steve Ngo:Yeah. I'm happy to, to, to kind of like set the context and set the tone here to, to give some context. I met my wife actually at Starbucks. I had picked her up at a Starbucks. I, she was sitting across from me and I just, you know, got her number, you know, something that's not as smooth, but it worked out and I'm one for one, one for random pickups. Like this is,
Angie Yu:Yeah, you were, you've reached your peak. You can't go back now.
Steve Ngo:yeah, it does. It feels like at the early stages of Tinder and whatever it is. So thank God I miss that. yeah, it's it was, it was so interesting because all my past relationships, I was always waiting for the shoe to drop I'm like, it must have, she must be crazy. Right. She must be something like, maybe she has like a secret boyfriend or something, but like nothing ever happened. so, but it wasn't until like, wasn't until a couple of years in you know, one of the things I love about Michelle is that she's such a explicit communicator. Nothing's like off limits and she's very upfront and very clear. but we, we, we do have ups and downs for sure. And it actually takes, took a really and dark moment for us to really learn from that and really figure it out. And there was a point when we had actually almost we were engaged I was in Vietnam and we had actually almost canceled our wedding. And this is something that both of us are actually, we, we, we actually really liked talking about this to friends because I think it's important to kind of open up the Pandora's box two per se.
Kristy Yee:How did it come to you guys almost counseling your wedding? Like what was behind the scenes?
Steve Ngo:Yeah. And I wanted to pause there earlier and and when I go deeper into it so set the context me going to be at home is actually, it really was my choice. Like it really me driving the decision. And at first she was like, Hey, you go first for the first couple of months, you go explore a little bit and then I'm going to come join you. but a couple of months, yeah. She had to change a mind. You're like, you know, I don't think I want to come here anymore. And at first I felt betrayed because like, oh, we made this promise. You'll come here with me and now you're not coming. I felt like, you know, you, you withdrew your word. And for her, she realized that this wasn't, this was really, really me pushing my agenda along. And it, and it got to the point where we and our wedding was coming up in a couple of months. Right. And for some reason, my gut was saying, you know, we got to bring in a third person, we've got to bring him to like a, like a, a third party to kind of hear us out a little bit. and I'm really fortunate. I did, I do want to give a shout out to Daniel and dyno is a a mentor of mine. And he, the three of us got in the chat with Daniel, it's it kind of used to be a marriage counselor. And we talked about, and wasn't even married. Right. So we talked about what we were both looking for and. It's so funny, we, he made us decide realize that we were both looking for the same things me and Michelle were looking for. Our long-term goal was to be back in Vancouver and start a family. Right? Whether we get there is a different story, how do we get those different stories? And he just opened up this new thinking meeting in two of us, they say that you, it is in your darkest moments in deepest moments is when you learn the most about each other. And I'm so I don't know if fortunate is the right word of saying, but I'm kind of glad that's also not the right word, but you know what I mean? That we kind of went through that because now we kind of figure out how we work. So since that moment we, yeah, we have a system going on. Anytime we get into like any kind of fight, I suppose we have a system where we try to assess who has a stronger opinion here. And if they have a strong opinion, they usually get their way. And that's how we decide things even planning the wedding was that. Really smooth. Surprisingly, since that moment, cause wedding planning is a whole new level. Right. But it was really like, we just listed out those 10, 20 things like, Hey, who has a strong opinion? You make the call who has a stronger opinion, make the call. And that's the system we have anytime we'd get into this kind of like tussle and that's been
Kristy Yee:like if, if Michelle cared more about flowers than Michelle makes the call kind of a thing, or like, if, if Steve cares more about what's on the menu, then you're going to make the call.
Steve Ngo:absolutely. That's exactly it. And this happened actually a couple months ago. so my wife and I are expecting we're expecting our baby daughter
Angie Yu:Okay.
Steve Ngo:on podcast
Kristy Yee:Yo, congrats,
Steve Ngo:live and outset.
Kristy Yee:Oh my God. You're going to be a father.
Angie Yu:haven't announced it yet,
Steve Ngo:I, I haven't. I mean, cause right now I'm like on my social media, all about this like campaign thing. Right. So Michelle just post Michelle's posted it up on her Facebook and stuff. I've done like Instagram, just like privately just to like, whatever. Right. I haven't, we only did the big announcement yesterday.
Angie Yu:Wow. Oh my God. Christie. Are you okay?
Kristy Yee:I'm just thinking, I'm like, I'm going to tell my mom.
Angie Yu:Oh Yeah. because you guys have mutual
Kristy Yee:I know Steve's mom and my mom are friends. We don't tell them a lot of shit.
Steve Ngo:Just to like close the loop on the story, we were just debating about like baby names eight in the middle name. And like, I was like, I don't have a strong opinion on the middle name. So like eco for it, stuff like that. Like that's how we, that's how we make does it.
Kristy Yee:I love that because a lot of times I find. Especially when I talk with friends and they like bitch about their spouses or partners, it's always, there's always a little bit of a tip-toe whenever there comes to be at decision-making, like you don't, you may have an opinion, but you're afraid to voice that you, you have this strong opinion. So you allow your partner to be like, oh, what do you think when you have already made your own decisions? And then you are upset when, when your partner doesn't come to the same conclusion as you do, when, when you could have just been like, Hey, I actually really care about the middle name. And so let's just avoid all of that other bullshit conversation. We don't even need to have all of that other stuff.
Angie Yu:That's right. Yeah. And I and you know what, that's another thing that we can bring back a little bit, bring back to like the Asian culture is that the Asian culture is so implicit. Everything's about context, context, that nobody really wants to put their foot down and be like, I want this because it's considered like not polite or something like that. If you go, Hey, we're going to do this. So I feel like for, you know, our generation being the kids of immigrant parents, like a lot of it is like, we're trying to learn how to do that with our friends, with our partners. and then eventually with our parents, it's almost like a reverse,
Kristy Yee:And it's not like we're, we're, you know, being a dictator, I couldn't think of a better way to, I'm gonna make all these decisions. It's it's like we're opening up the conversation, you know, when it comes to, Hey, baby, middle name, like, do you, how much do you care about it?
Angie Yu:Yeah,
Kristy Yee:We're inviting the other person and then respecting what their thoughts are, and then weighing that, you know, prioritize, weighing how much it matters to the other. And I think starting a conversation like that is, is a really good tip. What happens when you both care about something equally?
Steve Ngo:Yeah. Usually if we do, we give it a couple of days and whoever still has the strong opinion, like they'll carry the day. So like, yeah, maybe at the beginning we might both might care about it, but honestly, 90% of the time someone will have a stronger opinion and some will have a weaker opinion. And when you know that, Hey, they actually have a strong opinion about this. Most of the times, like, yeah, by all means, go ahead. It's really just about listening. And you know, every relationship is different, right? Like, you know, it's, I've been really bad. I want to talk about really build on Angie's point earlier. So much of what we do about relationships and what we think is the right thing to do is from our parents. And they had no idea what they're doing. There's all this past trauma for them that borrowed from their parents. It's just carried through and carried down.
Angie Yu:goes all the way back to Gang cause con you know, like,
Steve Ngo:Gang is calm. Gosh, right? Yeah, because you learn to love from, by seeing how your parents were alive, but it's, it definitely does carry down. And so the system that seeing who has a strong opinion has actually worked really well. And if at first we both might have the same strong opinion, but after a couple of days, like someone's going to have a stronger opinion will have a less strong opinion.
Angie Yu:yeah,
Steve Ngo:It's not about winning at this point, right? It's you're not, you're not keeping score.
Angie Yu:Yeah. Earlier at the, oh, I, while not a while back earlier, you mentioned like in your, first of all, I'm so happy for You and Michelle, like congratulations again. Oh, you're expected. Ah that's super exciting news. And we're the first podcast to announce it. Ladies and
Kristy Yee:You hurt your
Angie Yu:you heard it here first you mentioned that in your previous relationships, you were always waiting for the shoe to drop. He loved like, what do you mean by that?
Steve Ngo:Yeah. I, I sometimes don't understand myself too, like I'm optimistic, but also a skeptic it's strange, right?
Angie Yu:optimist.
Steve Ngo:Yeah. Like in, in the legal profession, skeptics actually do really well. And that's, my lawyers are good because we actually don't really believe what people say. We actually like to dive in and dig in deep. And so that's a good or bad trait. It could be terrible for mental health. but when I talk about shoot a drop, it is just looking at past relationships. I've always been thinking like, you know, is this really it? Like I'm waiting. Is there something bad going to happen? Is that weird sense of like, you know, anticipating bad things to happen? I don't know. I think, I think part of it is probably drawn from super, super, like personal here at this point Marisol school, right in I remember in like elementary school, like I was a chubby kid. Right. And so for me to like, when any girl who liked me, like, I was so excited, I just like jumped right into it. Right. And like, you know, it just ended up in really bad relationships, especially in high school university. I would just, you know, I would sometimes date someone, maybe, I didn't know, like them as much. And I feel absolutely terrible saying this on air you know, good or bad bait. Every single one of them actually found like the better half. And they each gotten married. It's actually all my four axes. They all like made the guy after me is, I don't know what that means, but so maybe that's a good thing.
Kristy Yee:Community
Angie Yu:them straight community service.
Steve Ngo:I, a lot in both, I made them realize what they didn't want. Right. So part of, part of the shoe dropping is that sometimes like a year in, I like this is not the right fit. And that's what I mean next to the shoe dropping. And so when I first met Michelle, I'm like, here we go again, like in a year from now, we're going to whatever. Right. And then show me this other guy and they're gonna get married. Right. I was like, oh, the pattern is happening, but has not happened. Won't happen. Hopefully. Just kidding.
Kristy Yee:I mean, you guys are married and there's a kid coming along. So.
Angie Yu:And I think from just what you told me, like how you guys went through this pretty big dark ish moment in your relationship, like you, like you said, like your, You don't want to say, you're glad it happened, but I think. like you're thankful for what it brought you. Like you're thankful for what it did bring into the relationship. because I think that was probably when you would expect the shoe to drop kind of thing, but you guys got through that with some mediation and with learning about each other. And because of that, that's what makes this relationship different. Because you are different, not anticipating for the shoe to drop anymore because your mindset is different. That's what I think as a non-expert.
Steve Ngo:no. And it kind of leads me back to when you were describing the self-help book of, of grayness. And there's a term that's tossed around a lot and I'm, this is going to be very counter-culture, but I'm just going to say it anyways. Right? There's a lot of talk about resilience and there's a school of thought where resilience is like you just putting up a front, you're just protecting that, that castle, the resilience is built from actually going through some harsh. That's actually how resilience is developed when you go through hard shit. That's when you develop resilience. So as shitty and crappy, as it feels, looking back, obviously always easy to look back, but that's one of the resilience is built up. So building like Lincoln to this topic, I'm actually glad Michelle had that really tough moment, right before we got married. Because, you know, if this happened, like down the road, I don't know. Right. And I, you know, I'm not an expert either. Right. But I do think there's something important about resilience and having going through tough times I had a buddy who got married to his wife and then they moved in together, like after the wedding and they never had any real, like, hard toxin, then, you know, now they're separated, but good or bad. Maybe if they had that resilient moment beforehand, you could kind of figure things out. So I'm not preaching. I'm not telling you guys to all go through big fights at all, but I'm just trying to say that resilience is developed from tough situation. Okay,
Kristy Yee:Yeah,
Angie Yu:Yeah, I would agree with that.
Kristy Yee:we're all going to go and like pick up the phone, find our partners, right. Start digging up some dirt. That's not what we mean here, folks.
Steve Ngo:sorry. I take no liability on this,
Kristy Yee:But I agree like this goes for whether you're building resilience in a relationship like with your partner or with friendships, or even with relationship with peers. Because when, when you are able to pick yourself back up, when you have gone through low moments, dark moments, places of anxiety, places of depression, and then you come out of that, then that also makes you more resilient.
Steve Ngo:Yeah. I, I absolutely resonate with that. Right. and I'm just thinking ahead, right. You know, how do you teach kids resilience? Right. And how do you teach your daughter resilience? Like, do you just make them homeless on the street to make them realize like, this is like, like, I don't know. Right. Like I actually, I grew up really poor. Like I remember food donations. I remember like wearing like yous clothes. I remember going to the Christmas bureau every year and picking out the toy. Actually, I realize what was happening until like many years later, because there was one day a year. My dad would drive me to this place and he'd be like, pick any toy you want. I'm like any toy. This is like toys R us, but free. And it was such a powerful moment for me when I was young that I could do this. And so I don't know. Right. It there's a lot of open questions. Right. It's about Brazilians, but it has shaped my life and made me really appreciate the power of community, the power of service and the power of giving back, because it helped me with my life and I want to keep it going. And that's my intent here. That's why I'm doing these different projects. Cause it's it's I don't know. This sounds so cheesy, but part of it is I just feel like a moral obligation or even just a calling obligation. It's too hard. Like it's, it's actually a bit of a calling actually.
Angie Yu:Okay.
Kristy Yee:That's so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. That's people see us in labels. Like I, I listed some labels when I introduced you. I'm like Steve is a lawyer. He's a musician, he's a social entrepreneur. He's a husband behind every single label. There is so much more to that person. And I think a lot of times we only pick one of those labels. Like I just listed like four or five things about UCF, but a lot of times we present ourselves with just one of these labels, like lawyer, and then we will all have this preconceived notion of what that means, because we all know we close our eyes and we ha we imagine a lawyer. And then you have all these stereotypes that come with it. And I don't think many folks would think about a struggling kid with two immigrant parents in Canada who visited the Christmas bureau every year, who moved to the other side of the world and ended up on a balcony one night and question their life purpose. We don't think about any of these moments, but it's all of these moments that actually make you who you are.
Angie Yu:you would not be the same kind of person had you not gone through all this adversity because your resilience level would be different. but you know, what's kind of interesting is that. Carrying your background. And I know that like the three of us are friends and we all, we've all had difficult childhoods. that's kind of what ties us together. And I think it's, it's kinda funny because when I was abroad, I kind of had the similar feeling as well. But I think not as not as the contrast was not as dramatic as yours, like going from the Christmas bureau to going to Vietnam working for the top. What is that? You said the biggest global law firm in the world.
Steve Ngo:Yeah. So it is one of the top law firms in the
Angie Yu:yeah, one of the top law firms in the entire world. you're you have this like really glamorous ex-pat life in this like rapidly developing nation. Like it's amazing. Like you're just there and soaking it all in. And when you're on your balcony, you're just like, who am I. Whereas the little Steve who was excited to get a present from the Christmas bureau. And I think that contrast is what really pulls us back to, you know, east of ed. Right. It sounds like to me, from like the, the bird's eye view is like, you went through this huge dramatic shift in your life from being so poor and just trying to adjust to life in Canada to like killing it in, in school and then killing it in work. And then just being like, oh, but have I stray too far from home, which was both emotional and physical. And now seeing you back here, just like you sell it, it's like a calling, right? Because the community has served you in your hardest times, and now that you've You know, now that you're in a place where you can help other people to you, it's calling, it feels like this is what you are here for is to give back to the community. And I think that's absolutely beautiful. Like, I'm pretty sure there are tie commercials based on your life.
Steve Ngo:I'll cheer you up now. Oh my God.
Kristy Yee:Oh shit. Now I lost my train of thought.
Angie Yu:I, sorry.
Steve Ngo:I I mean, I, I enjoy that. That's so that's so powerfully said, I kind of said it better myself, right? You are absolutely right. And it's, you know, I have gotten through struggled, like a super poor kid, and you've worked with, to just like the most, apparently the most glamorous thing you could do, right. Being top-notch law for him, like being a business lawyer flying around. And you realize that maybe this is not it. Maybe this is not the calling. Right. And coming back here, especially with this recent campaign Amman, and I know we are not touching on it too deeply, but you know, having experienced a anti-Asian hate crime incident myself last month, I can't help, but think that everything has kind of led me to this point, involvement in the community with other community groups, my public speaking skills, my learning languages, my, my ability to understand the law, my ability to like have politician, friends, understand the media. I realized that all this thing was coming to this one moment that this is the moment to step up. Steven, your parents didn't come here 30, 40 years ago, suffered through this point for you to keep perpetuating that harm. This is your moment, like use your language skills, use your ability to speak, to shape, change, and reflecting on what you're saying. I think sometimes, you know, I'm not a religious person at all, but I think there is something. I don't know, maybe it's a confluence of factors and skills that come to place, but there might be some kind of fate that's guiding what's happening now. It's just too coincidental.
Kristy Yee:Yep. And we believe in serendipitous stuff. And that what you had just described sounds to me like a serendipitous event, that everything coming together, all of your life experiences, all the skills that you have built, the people that you have met now coming to fruition for you to advocate for your people, for the community, so that we can better ourselves as a society and coming back to full circle. I can see how all of these things bring you into it. And I can see how, like, at the beginning of this conversation, I was like, oh my God, Steve, how do you do it? Like, how do you do at all? And I'm sure you get asked this all the time and now I get it. You do it because it's your calling because you are passionate about it because you want to give back because all, all of the things that you have learned in your life, all of your experiences have brought you to every single one of these moments. And right now it is this campaign and we will link it all in the show notes, but it was also the beyond the a, it was also the living room series. It was also all of those other community
Angie Yu:Your Toastmasters, your language. Yeah. All your Mandarin lessons the morning, the times when we was zooming practice Mandarin, you know, like, yeah. Like, absolutely. It's like all these little things that you did just came into this one moment. That is so well said, like I'm blown away.
Kristy Yee:And I can see like all of these things, like, I, I'm not tired for you anymore. In fact, in fact, I'm like energize, I'm pumped. I'm like, oh yeah, you do this to you. Like, this is, this is your moment. You know, you fucking train for this shit. Okay.
Angie Yu:Yeah, like I'm fired. Like, no, we're, we're your cheerleaders.
Steve Ngo:Thank you. And I take that like with my whole heart and I, I hear it. I absolutely soak it in. Everyone has a certain thing they do really well. Right. And so when you look at it from the outside, like, well, this is definitely not me. Like this would drain me. Right. And that's probably may have been the initial question. Like this sounds too crazy for me, and I'm still trying to figure it out. I honestly, I'm still trying to figure this out, but I know what doesn't work. Right? What doesn't work and what that's, what probably is it a balcony is chasing things that are actually not. what doesn't work for me. Right? I'm chasing these targets, these social indicators really pursuing the likes, like having these prestigious titles, but that wasn't me. Right? So part of it is just being, for me in these last few years is having that. Self-awareness what gives me energy. Who are the people I like talking to you too. I love talking to them. I was, this is on my calendar, like since last week, right. I would highlight in green, up in yellow if I can, but there are people that I don't particularly enjoy talking to. I'll probably just cancel the invite. Right. But I know that doing this session would give me energy and that's, that's the beauty of it.
Kristy Yee:That's so awesome. I love that. I think this is a great. Place for us to wrap up for the evening, as much as I want to keep talking about this with you, but we have so many good nuggets. one of which is the social media facade, right? All of our labels that we have, those are all true to our identity, but they are not the only things in our identity. In fact, it's all the things behind the doors. That's what truly makes us who we are. It's all the things that we experience all of our low points, because that's what builds resiliency. So I would encourage all of our listeners to reflect and think about what are some moments in your own life, where you have built resiliency for either with yourself or with your friends or with your.
Angie Yu:And that's exactly the same as, you know what Steve is going through right now, just for our listeners. A little bit more background. Steve was unfortunately, at the receiving end of a hate crime last month. And, you know, as everyone who knows
Kristy Yee:threw garbage while he was driving through his window. That's what happened.
Angie Yu:And then which again, like I remember saying this, I'm like, I Absolutely hate that this happened to you, but I'm also kind of thankful that it happened to you because like they mess with the wrong person, you know, And like you show that many a times. And I think there were moments where I went is Steve. Okay. Like he he's, he's going through so much
Steve Ngo:so much like
Angie Yu:media attention, like all of this stuff. It must be so overwhelming, but then hearing your backstory and how everything just really led to this moment. Okay. No, he's not overwhelmed because this is who he is and this is what he was meant to do. And see, again, it was like the facade of like media attention, but no, it's Not that Steve got lucky and was, you know, interviewed by all of these news outlets. It's because that he had years and years of work not to work towards this moment, but it just happened in his assets and his skills made him the perfect person for this opportunity.
Kristy Yee:Well said, Angie, and I think that last point that you had just mentioned made me realize one last takeaway for us is that we both kind of projected our own shit thinking about Steve. We're like, oh my gosh, how does he do this? Like, is this even real? How is, how is he not tired? But that all came from like my own experience and how I would feel if something like that happened to me and how Angie would feel as well. But in reality, you know, that's, that's really not Steve at all, but, but the lesson learned today in just our recording is that, oh shit. I just predict it. Pre protected, projected some of my own bullshit, you know, onto Steve. And then I, and then I questioned the authenticity authenticity of it because I was using my own experiences own. I was putting it onto another person and we do that so often, but we often don't catch ourselves doing.
Angie Yu:That's right. That's right. So we are sorry for hurling shit. I, you let's just grab a dust pan and go, let me just dust that right off of you.
Steve Ngo:I didn't even notice it. It was just energizing to chat with the both of you. So not even don't even. Yeah,
Kristy Yee:Steve, it was so awesome to have you on the show. How are you feeling right.
Steve Ngo:grateful. I really am. there's a lot of noise out there in the world. Right? A lot of noise of anger, hate bad things. Like, and it's easy to default to spreading that because it spreads right. What bleeds leads. But I am feeling grateful, grateful for this moment to chat with the both of you grateful for the ability to. Use my, guess, public speaking skills to really push, you know, making the world better and kind of place. I'm just grateful for these dark moments because they have taught me many lessons and I, I absolutely agree. I wouldn't be who I am now without those moments. And that's the honest truth. It's a grateful yeah.
Kristy Yee:Thank you, Steve. Thanks for joining us today and sharing all your stories and being vulnerable with us. And I know there were moments when you were about to cry and I just love it.
Angie Yu:Yes. I am an advocate. I'm an advocate for people who cry.
Kristy Yee:Like if we can get people to cry on our show, then we have succeeded.
Angie Yu:Hashtag blessed.
Kristy Yee:We know that all the skeletons in our closet.
Angie Yu:It's nice to see yours too.
Steve Ngo:So Scott, it's just who we are right in sandwiches. This is, it's just a closet, not a skeleton. It's just stuff,
Kristy Yee:right. It's all the stuff.
Angie Yu:You can either shove everything in the closet and forget about it or you can reorganize it.
Steve Ngo:Yeah. Dude. That's the wisdom bomb right there. Boom. Oh, that's a wisdom bomb. That's such a great line. I
Kristy Yee:is why we keep the recording on
Steve Ngo:Good line. You could just shove up.
Angie Yu:Steve, you love, you love all my like lines, but honestly I just, try to make them as cheesy as possible. You're the only person who's like, oh, that was so good.
Steve Ngo:I think that's good. Cause I'm going to copy it, right? Like I want to use the same thing. Down the road. Like you get shove all the shit in the closet. Why don't you just reorganize it? Dang. Does he
Kristy Yee:some Marie Kondo shit there, you know?
Angie Yu:yeah.
Steve Ngo:kind of shit?