29. Judging Our Life Choices: Cultural Identities and Love vs. Sex ft. Stephen Yuan

Is there a gender difference in how we think about sex, cope with depression, and priorities in life? Stephen Yuan shares his thoughts on how he navigates a semi-open relationship, getting out of low points, and his fascination with studying porn. Stephen is a co-host on “Stories with Stephen Yuan” Podcast. This is an interesting episode because we don’t always agree with each other in this conversation. 

**Content Warning: Consensual rape porn is discussed**

Highlights: 

• How to deal with your Asian identity as an Asian ex-pat in China  
• Stephen's weirdest sexual fetish experience with a woman  
• Is there a gender difference in how we cope with depression?  
• What separates love from sex? 
• How internet porn has affected millennial men and women  

Takeaways:

• We don't need to force our own coping mechanisms onto others
• You can be clear and upfront about what you want and not be an asshole at the same time  
• We often shame and judge people based on their life choices, sexual preference, relationship style, careers etc. This hurts us all.  Respect each other's choices
• Therapy helps you recognize and process emotions instead of pretending they're not there  
• Recognize your every day wins    
• It's okay for men to "not be in the mood" as well  

Mentions & Resources: 

• Ethical Slut: A Guide to Infinite Sexual Possibilities by. Dossie Easton & Catherine A. Liszt (Book) 

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Transcript

Stephen Yuan: 0:00

It's a huge problem with men because I'm going through this firsthand. It's like the amount of insecurity and vulnerability that we do not deal with from a young age when it comes to things like sex is really terrifying.

Angie Yu: 0:38

Welcome back to another episode of shit. We don't tell mom, this is Angie.

Kristy Yee: 0:42

And the.

Angie Yu: 0:43

And today we have a special guest all the way from Shanghai, Steven Yuan, Steven Yuan, Steven Yuen. I don't like to say pronouncing it and the, the white way to pronounce it would be you on, but it's. UN. I've known Stephen since we were 18. I want to say I met him in university. We went to the same university. We had some classes together. I can't, I can't remember how, like how we were friends, but I just remember visiting him in Shanghai and we had a blast. so we've stayed in contact since university and I don't really know what you've been up to, but you've been model. And then you went into the business of coconut water and then the business of Airbnb, I think. You've just done so many ventures that I lose track. All in all very interesting person, very excited you on the podcast.

Stephen Yuan: 1:33

Thank you. It's an honor to be here. It's nice meeting Christie. yeah, I've done a lot of shit. A lot of it not very good. can I swear on this? I can

Angie Yu: 1:41

Yeah It's title.

Kristy Yee: 1:44

No, not swear.

Stephen Yuan: 1:46

Yeah. I mean, the way I describe it as like turned 30 last year, I turned 31 in August. You know, I described my twenties as like trying to every flavor of ice cream of baskin robins you and now that I'm 30, it's kind of like, I've tried 70 of the flavors and narrowed it down to like maybe two or three. And now like, I want to find the best lemon sorbet the best raspberry sorbet you know, like from a work standpoint, at least that's how I view it. So yeah, I've done a lot of shit. Not all of them. Good. Some of a good

Angie Yu: 2:19

that also kind of sounds like your dating life as well, but we'll get that later. We'll get, get to that later.

Kristy Yee: 2:26

Was

Stephen Yuan: 2:26

fair

Kristy Yee: 2:27

plan Stephen? No

Stephen Yuan: 2:29

no. I mean, you know, you can ask Angie and when we were in school, I was, I was very, very different, you know, and Mo multiple times over, I'm sure we all were. But when I, when we graduated at SFU, I was in a relationship that would probably wasn't the most healthiest, you know, at that 0.4 and a half years in. And I just, you know, like when you graduated, I didn't have a job lined up. I didn't want a job. And originally just wanted to come to Shanghai for like two, three. moved in with these two guys were, cause we never had that dorm experience in Vancouver. Right. Cause we just, we bus up to SFU you know, moved in with these two guys, one of them still, one of my best friends, the other, still a good friend as well. And first two or three months here, I think Angie can relate, you know, when she first came to as a 22 year old broke dumb ass, it's

Kristy Yee: 3:08

Yeah

Stephen Yuan: 3:09

very freeing, you know, and whatever you want. Like, I started a fucking fitness bootcamp called vomit because I wanted to, know, and, and the city allow you to do that. So eight years later, I'm still here.

Angie Yu: 3:22

yeah.

Kristy Yee: 3:23

the original plan was two, three months. And now it's boom, eight years later.

Stephen Yuan: 3:27

Mm. Yeah. mean, it wasn't always good. You know, I would describe my time here, like a U curve. so in the beginning it was great. And then for about four or five years, I would say it was, it was pretty dark at times and unhappy. And now I would say I'm on the other end of the year.

Angie Yu: 3:41

Oh, that's good.

Kristy Yee: 3:42

Tell us more about those dark times.

Stephen Yuan: 3:45

Yeah. Like how he just go straight into this Yeah

Kristy Yee: 3:48

in.

Stephen Yuan: 3:49

Yeah

Angie Yu: 3:49

He doesn't emotional lubricant. Just raw.

Stephen Yuan: 3:53

I don't think I've ever used lubricant. well it depends on situation, I guess. I,

Kristy Yee: 3:58

Sometimes it's

Stephen Yuan: 3:58

yeah it depends

Angie Yu: 3:59

Let's go back to that. Let's go back to our conversation about dark time

Kristy Yee: 4:03

back to the dark

Stephen Yuan: 4:04

go back to the dark then. So I think I have a borderline personality disorder. I don't think I've ever been properly diagnosed with it. You know? my mom struggles with depression. really go through stages of manic too much. So I think for me, it's, it's more probably like borderline personality disorder. and I think, you know, this city is a little different because there's people like Angie come to China who come here for a short amount of time and they just make the most out of it. You know, whether that's a semester, two years, and then there are people here who stay long-term and I'm probably in that camp now as well. It's that middle part? That's a little weird, you know, especially when you're in your mid to late twenties where you don't really have a career, you don't really have money, know, and you know, you're in this fast paced city, you just kind of feel left behind a little bit. you know, when you add in like personal habits and all that shit, just, wasn't very happy. If that makes sense. I don't want to start this podcast off depressing, but

Angie Yu: 5:00

No, it does make sense. Like for me, yeah, it was very short term best out of it. Even though I was in China for six months, it felt like fricking two years, because everything in China just moves at such an incredible pace. That data every day was different. So Steven, like you've been in Shanghai for eight years. I'm sure that feels like 16 years more 25 years. Yeah. Like you feel like you're a middle age now that by the amount of things you've done. Yeah. Like you said earlier, the city allows you to do that. For those of you who aren't familiar with what Shanghai is like they're just so many people and there so many opportunities because there are enough people to offer the service or goods too. Right.

Stephen Yuan: 5:42

Right,

Angie Yu: 5:43

it's a great place to learn new things. like what do you think what's your biggest lesson? So.

Stephen Yuan: 5:48

Ooh. Okay. biggest lesson so far. I dunno. I, I think it's, it's a motto I try to live by it's, you know, we all have two lives until we realize, sorry. We all have two lives and we started a second one when we realized we just have one, you know I know that's not really like a lesson, but it really took some time when you're in a city like this in your early mid twenties. You're just so stuck in the trees. You don't have time to really step away and look at the. You know, so I think for me, just learning to myself, to take time sometimes like once a month, now I will leave the city. go

Angie Yu: 6:22

Okay

Stephen Yuan: 6:22

the mountains. you know, just because I'm a different person when I leave Shanghai. Right. So learning to do that, learning to kind of reset and be okay, resetting the, you know, like being like, oh, it's okay to just go away for a weekend and write or whatever. I think that's really helped a lot, if that makes sense that and learning to separate smoke from fire,

Angie Yu: 6:39

What does that mean?

Stephen Yuan: 6:41

You know, when you have a city like this, probably New York, similar, especially in the eighties and nineties, you know, where anyone can come in and, and slap a title on to their business card, you know, they want to open up bootcamp or start a podcast or do a consulting firm. You know, there's a lot of people that obviously can do that, you know, and everyone's always pitching things or selling things or wanting things. And some of it has validity and the people are good and the work is good, but there's a lot of smoke, know, there's a lot of people just, there's a term here called losers back home. LBH

Angie Yu: 7:12

Okay

Stephen Yuan: 7:12

of the people here

Kristy Yee: 7:15

I'm like I'm learning all this

Angie Yu: 7:17

There a lot of like people who couldn't make it back home go to China especially if you're white, like white I've never experienced second hand. What privilege like that like then when I was China with white people, like, it was Like anybody

Kristy Yee: 7:35

like doted and put it on a pedestal.

Stephen Yuan: 7:37

yeah, they're used to it, I would say like, they're

Angie Yu: 7:40

there. go

Stephen Yuan: 7:40

It's amazing how, you know, I just had my my friend on my podcast, his name is Adris you know, he's like this six foot, three black guy from Ohio and he's dating like a Shanghainese girl. And we were just talking about. Shanghai people, especially Shanghai, women are probably sound the most open-minded people in the world, you know, and this city has really kind of embraced that. So foreigners here are really kind of just like on par now, you know, they're not really elevated anymore, like Think back when Angie went was probably a little different now I would say it's very diff it's

Angie Yu: 8:07

Yeah yeah

Stephen Yuan: 8:09

a city like Shanghai, there's virtually zero. There's probably the opposite of white privilege now Now it's, it's really just like New York, but with much more Chinese people.

Angie Yu: 8:16

Yeah. Actually, I, do see that there's like something like 2 million, maybe even more now ex-pats Shanghai. So that is a lot of people. I mean, and for context, Shanghai has like 18 million people in total, so

Stephen Yuan: 8:28

I think 18 residents and with migrant workers on a daily basis, it goes up to mid thirties.

Angie Yu: 8:33

damn.

Kristy Yee: 8:34

And where do you see yourself, Stephen? Cause you know, you're raised here in,

Angie Yu: 8:39

Yeah

Kristy Yee: 8:39

You were raised in Vancouver and then now you've been living in Shanghai for the last eight years. You are Chinese, you been raised in a Western society. So do you consider yourself like an ex-pat or Chinese person or I don't, I

Angie Yu: 8:56

Yeah

Kristy Yee: 8:57

know what these categories are.

Stephen Yuan: 8:58

Yeah. I mean, I don't know if anybody knows what these categories are, to be honest with you, you know? I think Ange can tell you that I'm a very doing my own way type of person, for lack of better way to say that. I, I really don't think about that a lot. Like when I think about my identity, it's really not like, am I an ex-pat? Am I Chinese? You know, in my Asian am I, oh, I guess, I mean, I am Asian, but it's really more to do with what it is that I want to accomplish and what it is that I, I want, you know, and how I view it rather than how you view it, you know? You know, like I don't really care whether or not you consider me an ex-pat or, or local, that makes sense.

Kristy Yee: 9:35

My perception of China is very skewed

Stephen Yuan: 9:39

Sure

Kristy Yee: 9:39

from my mother like the media that I'm exposed to. So I have I'm under the impression that in China, it's very judgmental. even if you yourself, don't put yourself in a box. Or label yourself. Do you find that folks there label you

Stephen Yuan: 10:01

Yeah, absolutely. You know, I got laid labeled ABC all the time, even though I

Angie Yu: 10:05

Okay

Stephen Yuan: 10:06

are of all the labels I hate. That's the one I hate the most. I actually really don't feel ABC, you know, like I, I grew up in Germany before we moved to Canada, a big part of me still very European, you know, and just that entire like west coast yappy vibe just really does not sit well with me. but yeah, you got labeled definitely

Angie Yu: 10:22

were you born?

Stephen Yuan: 10:23

a jungle Hunan. And then

Angie Yu: 10:25

Oh, right, right, right

Stephen Yuan: 10:26

three, you know?

Angie Yu: 10:27

right,

Kristy Yee: 10:28

so dope?

Stephen Yuan: 10:29

Yeah. And then beautiful Vancouver when I was

Angie Yu: 10:33

when you were a 22.

Stephen Yuan: 10:35

Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 10:35

Do you plan to stay in Shanghai

Stephen Yuan: 10:38

Uh, I've, I've, I, you know,

Angie Yu: 10:40

Okay

Stephen Yuan: 10:40

I feel very fortunate to know that what I want to do for the rest of my life. And to be honest with you, nothing else really matters. kind of would like to build a life where I spent some time in Vancouver. My mom is still there, you know, but I really want to have a reason for going back. Like, I don't want to just go back rent an Airbnb and hang out for two weeks, you know? So whether that's property, whether it's business, whether that's, you know, my dog or whatever. Um, but we're building that life, you know, I will love to spend some time in Asia, some time in Vancouver and some time in Europe every year.

Angie Yu: 11:12

Very transient.

Stephen Yuan: 11:14

Yeah. would describe myself that way too. I think, but it's, weird. Cause when I'm on the road, I want to come home and the one of my home, I want to be on it.

Angie Yu: 11:24

What you mean because I used to feel that way all the was it yeah, I guess I've changed. I wouldn't really say that. Change though. I say, I would have I adapted if I was thrown back into that life again, I would adapt to that. I don't think changed the point where I'm like, oh, I never want to do that again. But the circumstances and where I'm at in my life, I have adapted to those circumstances.

Stephen Yuan: 11:48

Right, right,

Angie Yu: 11:49

when you were describing about how you want to be a little bit everywhere, it just reminded me of this excerpt. I was reading in Eddie Huang fresh off the boat, which was the book that kind of like freely introduced me to like this whole identity thing. he said that because he was, he was born. Taiwan. And then his family moved to Florida. He never felt like he fit in there. So then he moved to New York and that's where he called home. But even then he never truly fell at home. And he said the only place where he ever, ever truly felt at home was that an airport because you see people come and go, there's no, there's no labels. There's no And there's no clock. Well, there there's first class, first class and he caught me

Kristy Yee: 12:34

There's actually a lot of

Stephen Yuan: 12:35

Yeah

Angie Yu: 12:36

you know what I mean? Like everyone's just transient.

Stephen Yuan: 12:39

Right.

Angie Yu: 12:40

And that, that was when I read that I was like, damn. And then when you set that, I was like, damn.

Stephen Yuan: 12:45

I think for me, it was maybe more like wanting to experience different things rather than like, I actually don't, I hate the airport, so it's definitely not that for me, you know? And when I think of home, it's either here or it's Vancouver, but that's based on the people. Like if all the, you know, I'm very fortunate here. I have a lot of close friends that I see a lot, you know, and, and if they weren't here, I don't know how much longer I would do it here. You know, just like if my mom wasn't in Vancouver, I don't know whether or not I would invest in building a life there. I think for me, it's more just like, I would love to

Angie Yu: 13:14

Okay

Stephen Yuan: 13:15

in Barcelona for six months. I would love to live in one of those areas for six months. I would love to live in, you know, Bali for a year. and have a life design around them. see.

Kristy Yee: 13:25

what I want to do.

Stephen Yuan: 13:26

I think a lot of people want them.

Angie Yu: 13:29

not right now, not at this stage in my life. There are other things that I want more than that. Yeah. again, everyone views life differently.

Kristy Yee: 13:38

Well, it's all about your own personal values, some people like to spend money on handbags and some

Stephen Yuan: 13:45

Right

Kristy Yee: 13:46

money on airplane tickets. Some

Stephen Yuan: 13:47

right

Kristy Yee: 13:47

to have the comfort and stability of, being at home wherever home is. And some people want to make home wherever they are.

Stephen Yuan: 13:57

Okay. a good way of putting it. Yeah. You know, and, and I think this is something I'm also out, to be honest with you, I'm, I'm figuring it out. Like this is probably the first time in my life where I'm seriously thinking about this in a strategic sense. I think once I turned 30, you really started thinking about things a little more long-term or at least I did in my twenties. And I was thinking about women and money I guess ego right or tattoos, probably tattoos.

Angie Yu: 14:20

And what are you thinking by now? How many of those four is currently still on your mind?

Stephen Yuan: 14:24

just the tattoos at this point. Oh, the money thing as well. I mean like, but for me, money is about getting to a number. I'm a very like a sprint oriented person. my life is designed around, you know, rush getting through today, getting through this week, getting through this month, getting through until we hit X number of getting to, you know, and then taking breaks along the way. you know, with my film stuff, it's getting to production, right. That's kind of how I designed my

Angie Yu: 14:48

Okay

Stephen Yuan: 14:48

the money thing is also goal oriented. The women thing has kind of faded a little bit. It's interesting.

Kristy Yee: 14:53

Why do you think that is?

Stephen Yuan: 14:54

It's just not a priority anymore. You know? I still enjoy the company of women. Don't get me wrong.

Angie Yu: 14:58

Oh my goodness.

Stephen Yuan: 15:00

you know, It's just it's it's not the priority, I guess. I don't know. a good question.

Angie Yu: 15:05

You enjoy the company of women.

Stephen Yuan: 15:08

I do. Yeah. Nothing wrong with that.

Angie Yu: 15:10

There's nothing wrong with it, but the way you said it is very, I don't know if it's because you've been in China for a really long time.

Stephen Yuan: 15:16

Hmm.

Kristy Yee: 15:17

What are you alluding to Angie?

Angie Yu: 15:19

It sounds a very like, like,

Stephen Yuan: 15:21

KTV.

Angie Yu: 15:22

no. Wow. I don't even know what that is. sounds very like geisha, like, you know, like, like you enjoy the company of a women in terms of what they can provide you, which is entertainment. And I don't know a cure for loneliness

Stephen Yuan: 15:39

Ooh, a cure. I don't, I didn't know. There was a cure for

Angie Yu: 15:42

there isn't there isn't, that's why that's why people chase external things because they think that it will cure loneliness when there is no cure for loneliness

Kristy Yee: 15:51

distraction from loneliness.

Angie Yu: 15:53

right.

Stephen Yuan: 15:54

I don't disagree with that. I would like to offer an alternative hypothesis, which is maybe just a we've, you know, for some people, the way we've designed relationships and sex is not adequate enough for, for they want. You know, like I'm in a situation right now where I would say I'm in a relationship, but it's a fairly open minded relationship. Let's call it. And you know, at the same time, I'm very upfront with women these days. been trying to learn that you can still be very clear and upfront with what you want and not be an asshole at the same time. which I feel like most men don't understand actually,

Kristy Yee: 16:26

I'm totally with on that, because I think there are two completely different things because can be upfront, but you can still come from a place of respect.

Angie Yu: 16:34

that's right

Kristy Yee: 16:35

what you

Stephen Yuan: 16:35

Yeah

Angie Yu: 16:36

Yeah

Kristy Yee: 16:36

And, you're just communicating isn't

Stephen Yuan: 16:38

right

Kristy Yee: 16:39

do isn't that our thing is just communication

Stephen Yuan: 16:42

right

Kristy Yee: 16:42

have enough of that in the

Angie Yu: 16:43

Yeah. exactly. And that's, that's it like, I, the people who shame other people or judge others for speaking, what's truly on their mind. They're the people who have problems, not the people who have a non-conformist idea of what a relationship or life looks like.

Stephen Yuan: 17:00

I mean, I just had this conversation last night with one of my best friends. She just I think you guys should have her on actually. So she just got

Angie Yu: 17:06

Yeah

Stephen Yuan: 17:06

to go to do her. Master's at Harvard for, adolescent counseling's focus on Asian diaspora and third culture. so she starts in September and we were talking last night about this, this theory I've been working on where really do think the way we view sex is completely wrong. You know, like I think evolutionary speaking is probably much closer to food than it is to how we view it right now, which is very religion based, Like if you eat the healthiest salad every day for three years, you're not going to want that salad anymore. You know? And like, there are times when you just, you just want a slice of pizza and you want a milkshake, even though, you know, it's bad for you. And if you look at how the psychological and neurological aspects of sex works, it's very similar. Why are you laughing?

Angie Yu: 17:51

Oh, because Christie is a dietician. There's no such thing as good or bad food.

Stephen Yuan: 17:55

Really? Okay.

Kristy Yee: 17:57

have a whole other conversation

Stephen Yuan: 17:58

Sure, but I mean, you understand this, right? Like the, where the food and the drugs effect part of the limbic system, so does sex. So from a biological standpoint, it's designed the same way almost. So, you know, we've put this lid on it in terms

Angie Yu: 18:12

Okay

Stephen Yuan: 18:12

not talking about it, even though it's sex probably the thing that most of us think about the most and, and, you know, talk about the least in terms of that ratio, right? Like there's literally nothing else we think about that much spend, invest as much time and money in make a priority in our life and our relationships. And yet we do not talk about it in public, in groups, you know, like literally everything else you spend this much time thinking about, you can have an open conversation with, but when it's

Angie Yu: 18:44

Mm

Stephen Yuan: 18:44

or porn or whatever else it's shamed upon, you know, especially in our community. so I thought, I don't know where I just went on that tangent. I apologize for that.

Angie Yu: 18:52

no, it's okay

Kristy Yee: 18:52

apologize. This is like a conversation. Right. And I agree with this is a whole new way for me to think about sex. So I need to process it, but I think you're right. Like whenever we try to taboo, I's something with sex it's most of it comes from religion. Right?

Stephen Yuan: 19:08

Yeah

Kristy Yee: 19:09

then you actually end up wanting more of it. You actually think about it more. It's just like what the food analogy is. If you, if you deprive yourself of certain foods,

Stephen Yuan: 19:18

Right

Kristy Yee: 19:19

going to crave that food even more. You're going to want it even more. And then when you go for it, you feel bad about yourself. You've you shame yourself? You're like, oh shit. You know, I just had all that milkshake. I'd like ate a 10,000 calorie. I'm using crazy numbers because I

Stephen Yuan: 19:33

right

Kristy Yee: 19:33

real numbers. and, and then we, we shame ourselves because we taboo those certain. And it's the same thing with sex. The more you withhold it, the more you're going to want it, and then cetera, et cetera. And then you feel bad for yourself for wanting it,

Stephen Yuan: 19:50

Even though, I think it's a perfect natural thing, you know? And I'm not saying that like, everybody should start having orgies every day. Right. But at the very least kind of get to a point where if you meet someone, they say, oh, no, I'm just going to go out and have sex tonight. It's just like, Hey, I'm just going to go spinning tonight or right.

Kristy Yee: 20:07

why it's okay to have a milkshake when you fucking want a milkshake. It's all good.

Stephen Yuan: 20:12

I love milkshakes.

Angie Yu: 20:14

Have you read the book called ethical slut?

Stephen Yuan: 20:16

no,

Angie Yu: 20:17

read It's from like, first of all, it's from like the nineties and it, I started reading it when my last relationship ended, because before my last relationship ended, I had actually proposed the idea of an open release. And it was turned down by the other person and his words and I quote was no, I never was. No, I can never be with you again, if you sleep with another guy, which is ironic because he ended up cheating on me. So after that, I was really interested in the whole idea of what, what separates love and sex. So I went on this like journey mentally but just by reading different things. And one of my friends he's in a polygamous relationship, or he's sorry, not polygamous. He's he calls himself at a Paul the more Pauly more. Yeah. which means that it's, he's open to open relationships, he was the one who recommended this book to me. So I started reading it. I didn't finish the book because the second half of the book is more so about how to go about having this lifestyle. Whereas I was more interested in the why and the psychology aspect, and like you said, this evolutionary aspect to it. It basically talks about why we think sex is so taboo and why these other types of nonconformists non-Christian relationships are viewed as such bad things. All in all the gist of it is it goes through the different types. It goes through how to actually navigate being in a poly relationship. And the biggest thing that came out of it. magical C word communication. that's why it's called ethical slut because first of all, select should not be a bad word and you can be ethical about it, like you said. Yeah. As long as you're open and direct and there's respect on both.

Stephen Yuan: 22:08

And look, I don't think open relationships are for everyone. I'm not even sure if it's right for me, you know, like ironically, I've, haven't sought out much now than I did when I was in a monogamous relationship. Cause like, you know, it's like, if somebody says you can't have this cookie, you wanted the cookie, then if somebody puts the cookie there, you're kind of like, well, I'd rather just have something healthier that makes me happier. Right. And obviously it comes with maturity and age and stuff like that as well. it's, it's weird that at this point I like I've had goals on my place and I ended up just being like, no, I don't really want to do it. You know, whereas like before I felt like they're on my place and I have to kind of do this, you know, and just to kind of like release that urge. So it it's been an interesting journey. I don't know what I want. I think monogamy is beautiful. I think if you can get to 70 in a monogamous relationship, there's a ton of upside in that, you know, but I don't come from a healthy, happy family. I've

Angie Yu: 23:04

Okay

Stephen Yuan: 23:04

had that imprinted in me. you

Angie Yu: 23:05

Hmm

Stephen Yuan: 23:06

what the upsides that of that are as you and I have talked about this a little bit. Right. You know, and once again, I like the company of women, we're figuring this out one day at a time.

Angie Yu: 23:16

Yeah.

Kristy Yee: 23:17

I

Stephen Yuan: 23:17

Right

Kristy Yee: 23:17

takeaway here is that we shouldn't be shaming people for their preferences we shouldn't be shaming concept. we

Angie Yu: 23:26

Mm

Kristy Yee: 23:27

sex in general. So collectively we're all so shy about it and nobody talks about it. And then food, because that was mentioned, we shamed certain foods. in return we feel like we are the bad people when we eat these foods. So feel like we're the bad people when we don't conform to what is considered acceptable when it comes with sex and relationships,

Stephen Yuan: 23:50

Yeah. Which is a shame.

Kristy Yee: 23:51

and I think it's like, okay, we should just stop shaming all of that, because everybody's going to want different things. And maybe you want different things in different parts of your life, in a different stage. Maybe you're like very down with having an open relationship, later in life.

Stephen Yuan: 24:06

Right.

Kristy Yee: 24:07

you've learned more and now you are so much better at communicating with people and et cetera, et cetera.

Angie Yu: 24:12

Going to bring it back to your ice cream analogy is like, Hey, if you love vanilla, great, me personally, vanilla is my favorite flavor. And also vanilla is expensive now with all the theft Madagascar vanilla beans. Anyway, I digress. but if somebody else likes bubble gum, I don't like bubble gum, but I'm not going to shame the other person for liking bubble gum or chocolate chip mint, chocolate mint, mint, chocolate chip, et cetera, like you said. And sometimes it's just about trying different flavors until you go, okay, well, I don't like this, but I might like that or that or that. And we should be the same about lifestyle. Same way about career choices and same way about sex and relationships. It's just basically respect other people's choices.

Stephen Yuan: 24:55

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. And I think, you know, with what you said earlier with the guy thing, It's a huge problem with men because I'm going through this firsthand. It's like the amount of insecurity and vulnerability that we do not deal with from a young age when it comes to things like sex is really terrifying. Cause I. You know, the, the girl I'm with kind of, she sh she was seeing someone else maybe like two months ago. And I just realized that that made me feel pretty insecure, you know, and, and like, I had zero ways to deal with that. aside from just kind of learning to what, what, what is this right? But, you know, and, and I like to think I'm someone who is pretty in tune with my emotions, pretty accepting open-minded I understand that this is, you know, the situation, and yet I still felt not great. I, you know, it's just, you feel insecurity feeling inadequate. then that also goes away once you process it and you, you learn to separate. I think the key for me was learning that my me loving you is independent of what you do. Right. It it's my choice. And it's my choice to accept you I'm at a place now where I'm comfortable with myself. I know who I am. So even if you hurt me or if you do something that hurts me, you know, it's, it's my choice. And if it gets to a point where it's unhealthy, I trust myself to be able to kind of recognize that, know, and we have a very respecting and open communicating relationship these days. We're probably more monogamous and open, you know, but we're seeing how it goes. It's just, if it's this hard for me, I can imagine how hard it would be for, for men who do not work on this. Like for guys who say things like I can never be with you. If you see someone else, like that's just fucking immature

Angie Yu: 26:36

yeah absolutely

Stephen Yuan: 26:38

you're being a little right.

Angie Yu: 26:40

Being a little bitch. I'm just kidding

Stephen Yuan: 26:41

You know

Kristy Yee: 26:42

of that was like them deflecting because they were doing something behind your back.

Stephen Yuan: 26:48

right. I mean, what's that saying? Liars always think you're lying because they're lying.

Angie Yu: 26:52

Yeah.

Stephen Yuan: 26:53

all of a sudden you think that like, oh, every time you go away, you're cheating or whatever.

Angie Yu: 26:57

But bringing it back to how you got through these insecurities, you said like you process them, how did you process.

Stephen Yuan: 27:05

I'm not sure I'm through them, to be honest with you, you know, we're, we're still working on it. like, I think for me, it's a little different because I'm, I'm a very sexually open person and I'm, I'm pretty detached. Like, and I don't have any issues with my significant other sleeping with other people. quite the opposite actually, probably, but there is still a very, think evolutionary trait of trust being broken when something like that happens that is just encoded in our DNA. You just got to realize that this is what you sign up for and that this will go away. It's just like with all pain, you know, when you're at the gym, this is going to go away. I fast, sorry, Christie. I don't know if you're a pro fasting, but,

Kristy Yee: 27:41

Mm

Stephen Yuan: 27:42

you know, when I'm fasting, sometimes, you know, the, I understand hunger is temporary, you know, and it

Angie Yu: 27:47

Yeah

Stephen Yuan: 27:47

away. Right. So it's, I meditate. I, and I understand that this feeling that I have right now is not a part of me, you know, and I'm able to kind of see it. And while this moment sucks, there are going to be a point where this moment will pass.

Angie Yu: 28:03

You literally described therapy

Stephen Yuan: 28:05

do this?

Angie Yu: 28:05

The good part of the first year of me in therapy was learning how to process my emotions instead of just they're not there. Just being like, yeah. Okay. This is what I'm feeling. And this is natural. And the thing is like, I think in our community, like the way we were raised is to be like, oh, I feel something, get the fuck outta here. I don't feel I'm strong. I don't need to feel feelings. And

Stephen Yuan: 28:25

yeah,

Angie Yu: 28:25

it's, it's very toxic. And then in Western society, even though that's not as prevalent as it is in Asian communities, it's still very present for the men in the Western

Stephen Yuan: 28:35

It's

Angie Yu: 28:36

as well It's so toxic and it's toxic for everyone. of course it hurts women, but it also hurts the men themselves. Well, so

Stephen Yuan: 28:43

Yeah.

Angie Yu: 28:44

I want to know, like, how did you get to that place where you're able to do all this without therapy?

Stephen Yuan: 28:51

Oh, that's a good question. I would say I hit a low point maybe. Two years ago, you know, like, like a low, low, and I was in an unhappy relationship. much heavier than I am now by about 20 pounds. You know, I've always been like sub 10% body fat my entire life, you know? And

Angie Yu: 29:08

Yeah

Stephen Yuan: 29:08

you hit your late twenties, that changes and obviously your physical dietary habits affect you mentally, as Kristy knows, obviously I was just really unhappy. it started with that. It started with me finding this is gonna sound really silly. it started with me finding battles. I can win every morning and that are little things like, and I'm not the most clean person. Like, let me start there. Right. But I got rid of my ah yeeand it's just like doing the dishes.

Angie Yu: 29:35

for those don't know, I E is Mandarin auntie, but they're usually like the mates or the the house cleaners, the Combs Kong cooks and stuff.

Stephen Yuan: 29:45

Yeah, I know no one is Shanghai cleans themselves because you pay somebody 10 bucks to come clean your apartment for three hours once a week. Right? So it was little things like that. It's like once I make the coffee pouring the beans away, it's making my bed. It's, it's doing law. Like, for me, what really stuck was exercise and diet. The fasting thing actually really changed my life in many ways. You know, once I, my body is very responsive. These days I can get in and out of fast, quick, and it's almost like a second year I go into, know, and once you realize that once you realize that, like you can shave 10 pounds off systematically over time, know, you can't actually do it in one day. You have to do it over time. Once you realize that you can start applying that to other things, you know, including your mental health, right. And just understanding that your mental health isn't a light switch. You might feel shitty about this breakup or how you talk to women my situation at least, that isn't going to get fixed overnight. It's going to get fixed the next time I'm with a woman, you know, I work on her then, and then the time after that, and then Tinder match and then et cetera, et cetera, you know, and, and work obviously helped as

Angie Yu: 30:49

Yeah

Stephen Yuan: 30:49

But for me, it's been a two year process of just understanding that what control so many things. The only thing I really control is my attitude. And even that I can't control most of the time, to be honest with you. and, and this sounds stupid. I try to be grateful. You know, if this podcast even, and over two years, it's really worked. it also helped that I found something that I want to do for the rest of my life, which is film. I have a strong purpose. I have a very strong north star and it's just all kind of aligned. I mean, I started my first company at 23. One of the things I learned is, is you really do not control macro trends. Right. Like this entire Asian wave right now that you guys are writing as well. You don't control that. So, you know, you can only recognize things when they happen. then you can decide whether you want to take action and whether you want to reinforce that action positively to the point where it becomes a habit,

Angie Yu: 31:37

Yeah. again, the things that you have been describing, the steps you have taken to kind of get yourself out of those dark spots. That's like exactly. Well, not maybe not word for word, but those are the general ideas of what, how to get yourself out of depression Like you go to therapy and they tell you to start a little bit at a time. The first one of the first things I learned was like motivation does not equal access. can't just sit around, waiting for motivation to come. Action equals motivation. So if you start doing the little things, you're like, okay, I'm going to put away half of my laundry. that's going to be, my goal is just put away half of it before, you know, it you've put away all of it because that's you, once you start doing it, you might feel the urge to do more. Or like, I'm just going to put the dishes in the sink instead of just letting it lie around the whole apartment. Just like little things like that will start getting you, getting you going once you're in that really dark hole. And then same thing, like what you said about like, oh, I don't like the way I talk to women. I'm going to practice how to do that properly. And people think going to therapy will fix you. No, no, no. It doesn't. You'll learn strategies. You'll learn coping mechanisms you'll learn tools, but it really comes down to those practices. Like what you have done for yourself, Steven. Like, you're like, okay, well, the next time this happens, I'm going to.

Kristy Yee: 32:50

And if it also comes down to like, are you willing to in that, that work in that effort and that reflection piece of it? So in therapy, like, you know, like Angie said it's the tools, it's the strategies, but you're given the tools, but you also need to like, use them. want to believe that it's going to work in that it's going to help you

Stephen Yuan: 33:12

Yeah

Kristy Yee: 33:12

work doesn't have to be like a hustle. It doesn't have to be a grind. It's just, it was like, know, last month I was in a really deep depression pit and I took time off work. I was off social media and I was just in bed. And if I could get up and take a shower, then that's my win for the day.

Stephen Yuan: 33:33

I look, I, I think that's great, you know, and I think that is okay. there's, there's another part of this that I think a lot of people really fall trap to, which is when shit goes wrong and shit will go wrong. If you, if you try to work on yourself, right. shit goes wrong, when you have the milkshake, it's really important to learn, to not be that hard on yourself. if you are really hard on yourself in that moment, you're not going to do it again the next day, right? You're not, you're not reinforcing that. You know, if you have a milkshake and metrics are already gone, you already drank it. There's really not much else you can do about it. You know? So whether that's just relapsing in general, whatever that means to you, you got to learn to, to be nicer to yourself, although Christie, I will say, I kind of do want to challenge that last point a bit and maybe this is just a personality thing. So how I address things like that is, you know, I think I'm a little different because I'm a very goal oriented person. Incredibly fucking impatient,

Kristy Yee: 34:27

Yeah

Stephen Yuan: 34:27

which is probably not a good thing. you know, but I, when I have those moments, I actually get more depressed, you know, and, and I'm really curious to see whether or not this is, cause I've heard guys do it my way more and girls do it your way more. I don't know if it's a gender thing at all, or if it's just a personality thing, the idea of I'm having a bad day, I just want to lie in bed for a bit. Really makes it sound much worse for me. So is there like a range here for you or is that just a situation?

Kristy Yee: 34:57

okay So once upon a time would feel really shit. And I sometimes still do, like,

Stephen Yuan: 35:04

Hmm

Kristy Yee: 35:04

happy, like if I'm in that state of mind, I will feel really bad because I will watch the sun go down and be like, there's a fucking day wasted. And I Like what, what the fuck did I accomplish today? And then there'll be a lot of shame talk. you weren't productive. You were useless. You could have done a, B, C, D blah, blah, blah. And, and I F I would actually have a physical manifestation of not feeling well. Like, I will feel very groggy. You know how, like, when you oversleep you feel groggy,

Stephen Yuan: 35:32

Yeah

Kristy Yee: 35:33

that times like a thousand, right. When depressed. I'll feel super groggy. I'll sometimes feel nauseated because I've been in bed all day and I haven't, you know, breathe in fresh air or and you will feel very lethargic and just like, oh, like just blah. So that's, how I would generally feel if I'm like in bed all day now, where I'm at in my mental health journey is I've recognized that, okay, this is my depression. acting up. I don't need to shame myself. For having this situation happening right now, because that's what I would

Stephen Yuan: 36:09

Yeah

Kristy Yee: 36:09

do. I wouldn't be like, oh my God, you suck. Like, just get up and like do something.

Stephen Yuan: 36:13

Okay

Kristy Yee: 36:13

but when my depression is there, like it, it's very hard to do something because you

Angie Yu: 36:19

Okay

Kristy Yee: 36:19

have the mental capacity to do it. what I do instead now is give myself that space and compassion and say, okay, this is happening and allow myself take the time off because that's what my illness needs. And that in itself actually takes more work.

Stephen Yuan: 36:37

I believe that. And I, you know, sorry, I don't mean to discredit or whatever. I was just curious cause I handled this so very different than that. Right. You know, like. For me, I think having grown up with sports, I've always kind of had that outlet and, you know, the reason why I like exercise so much as it did the physical, the immediate response you get from it. Right.

Angie Yu: 36:57

Okay

Stephen Yuan: 36:57

know, like in your brain, at least chemically the immediate response you get from it. And I guess I'm just a big believer in, in kinetic solutions or, you know, kinetic therapy where, how you move. And I, I completely understand, there are days when you just, you do not want to move, you know? but it's interesting to hear this because I think I probably need to be a little more empathetic with how my mom handles this. She probably had was this closer to, to how you handle this? then how I, because every time I just tell her, I was like, just fucking go for a run. I'm just like, I hate running,

Angie Yu: 37:24

Yeah

Stephen Yuan: 37:24

I guess for me, it was just in coded from a young age. Yeah.

Angie Yu: 37:27

says that to me too

Kristy Yee: 37:28

different, ice cream flavor, right?

Stephen Yuan: 37:30

exactly

Kristy Yee: 37:30

be really great for you because now you're physically moving, you're breathing fresh air. endorphins are being pumped out.

Stephen Yuan: 37:35

Right.

Kristy Yee: 37:36

that's what you need. But maybe for mom, it's something else.

Stephen Yuan: 37:39

The important thing here is that we have this conversation because otherwise, if you don't have this conversation, I just look at you and be like, why are you so fucking lazy? Just like, don't be and move. Right. And if we

Angie Yu: 37:49

Yup

Stephen Yuan: 37:49

you look at me and like, why are you such an ass? So I just leave me alone. I just need my moment, know,

Angie Yu: 37:54

Yeah. When your reality, you're trying to help her, but like again, like everyone experiences. Things differently. And does it like, even if you both have depression, the way you handle depression will be differently. And I don't know, maybe it is a gender thing, because I remember reading about this when I was like in grade 12 or something like that. I think it was a study done by, I want to say Malcolm Gladwell, but I'm really not sure is that women tend to blame themselves internally when something goes wrong in their life. And men tend to blame external things.

Stephen Yuan: 38:26

okay

Angie Yu: 38:26

And I can see that being very true in the conversations I've had with just my friends. I know that that's not a good sample size, but, anecdote and they totally has always been the case for, I think, where the blame comes from. And I don't know if that's true or not.

Stephen Yuan: 38:43

Yeah. I mean, look, I'm sure you don't, you can't fit everyone the same category. Right. You know, I probably relate to the, to the women more in that aspect, but that's because I was raised by

Angie Yu: 38:52

yeah

Stephen Yuan: 38:52

watching fucking channel 19 women's network. My entire teenage years, every time he came home from school, it would be

Angie Yu: 38:59

19

Stephen Yuan: 39:00

Phil, then Oprah then the bachelor, in that order.

Angie Yu: 39:07

it shopping channel. Wasn't it the shopping trip

Stephen Yuan: 39:10

woman's network,

Angie Yu: 39:10

really. Okay. I didn't know that

Kristy Yee: 39:13

Yeah. I watched all the the, fashion show, not like fashion shows, not like Victoria secret, but I mean like the ones where you, you go out shopping and like they fashion things. Yeah. the home decor

Stephen Yuan: 39:25

Yeah. The two gay yeah,

Kristy Yee: 40:02

do want to ask you about one thing you mentioned your openness to sexuality and open relationships, and then offline, you also mentioned you had many sexual escapades.

Stephen Yuan: 40:15

Don't say that. I don't think I said that

Kristy Yee: 40:17

said escapades.

Angie Yu: 40:18

You said, you said that in the form where we asked, is there anything that you don't tell your mom and you're like a law I'm pretty close to my mom. The only thing I don't talk to her about as my many sexual escapades or something like that. Yeah. Sexual

Stephen Yuan: 40:30

Pretty sure. I did not use the word escapades, but okay. Let's pretend like,

Angie Yu: 40:34

Yes you

Kristy Yee: 40:35

it's

Angie Yu: 40:35

Oh yes did

Kristy Yee: 40:37

for

Stephen Yuan: 40:37

okay.

Angie Yu: 40:37

we did. You did.

Stephen Yuan: 40:39

Yeah. What is it that you would like to ask about that?

Angie Yu: 40:42

us

Stephen Yuan: 40:44

I less escapades recently then, then in my mid twenties, I would say, I think in my mid twenties, I was probably a little more open, I think sexually now I'm at a point where, like, I know what I want. I know what turns me on. I know, you know, what I'm comfortable with, where I'm not comfortable with, maybe only on mid twenties it was motorcycle. Sure. Let's try this. You know, so it's, it's. I don't know what I can and cannot say on air. So I would

Kristy Yee: 41:08

anything

Angie Yu: 41:08

you didn't say anything. This whole is explicit.

Stephen Yuan: 41:12

what

Angie Yu: 41:12

every episode explicit

Stephen Yuan: 41:14

Is that what you want or, or, or what,

Kristy Yee: 41:17

What are horror stories related to sex Now? I really want to know.

Stephen Yuan: 41:22

the, the weirdest one, the weirdest fetish I've encountered was a girl who enjoys feeding. she enjoyed feeding you while she was on top of you. So, you know, the guy would be like propped up against the bed, rest sitting, and then she will literally be straddling you and feeding you a slice of cake or pizza. so, but like, you can't stay hard doing that. Well, at least I couldn't, you know, and, and it's just uncomfortable. yeah, I've, I've looked, I've done a fair amount of shit. I want to say, some of which I'm not super proud of, but, you know,

Angie Yu: 41:53

as long consensual con. Yeah.

Stephen Yuan: 41:56

yeah. Consensual. Yeah, I think much all of it was Constable

Kristy Yee: 42:00

Dot, dot,

Stephen Yuan: 42:01

Okay I studied porn a lot. Like I, I really study porn a lot and I think one of the fastest growing sectors is this like a consensual nonconsensual type of category. don't know if you're familiar with this, basically it's like rape fantasies, but as a category, you know, because

Angie Yu: 42:17

Yeah

Stephen Yuan: 42:17

you actually, the way the internet works, that you could, you couldn't look up the word rape in

Angie Yu: 42:21

Hmm

Stephen Yuan: 42:22

PornHub or wherever else you downloaded before, because it was just automatically blacklisted and blocked. cause it's a crime, right?

Angie Yu: 42:28

Yeah

Stephen Yuan: 42:28

so there's this category nowadays called consensual nonconsensual. That is essentially role-playing rape. so that's what I was reflecting through, but I think that it's considered

Angie Yu: 42:37

Consensual nonconsensual I see

Kristy Yee: 42:39

then I think

Angie Yu: 42:40

Okay

Kristy Yee: 42:41

because like the two parties or three, however many parties is involved agreed that this is going to happen.

Angie Yu: 42:48

So that's why it's called consensual nonconsensual can't say consoles consensual rape.

Stephen Yuan: 42:53

But obviously a lot of times that isn't even like sexual, you know, like there's a lot of stuff these days where there is, it's really less about the actual penetration aspect of food.

Kristy Yee: 43:01

But sexual doesn't have to be like penetration.

Stephen Yuan: 43:04

No, not at

Angie Yu: 43:05

He just said that.

Stephen Yuan: 43:06

Yeah. As I said in a lot of like

Kristy Yee: 43:10

well today.

Stephen Yuan: 43:11

In the CNC category. There's a lot of stuff that isn't penetration. Like when most people think of like consensual non-central or like rape porn and they think of like actual rape, a lot of that is not like a lot of stuff in the categories actually just like office play shit like that. Or, you know, like arousal, like everything that leads up to it, because I actually think the concept of rape fantasy, isn't so much about the, the penetration aspect as it is the attention and everything leading up to it. for a lot of women, at least

Angie Yu: 43:39

Yeah. That's why women are always asking for more foreplay.

Stephen Yuan: 43:44

Yeah. it does

Angie Yu: 43:47

What is the big sign of out

Kristy Yee: 43:49

that sounded like a very tired side

Angie Yu: 43:52

like, it's like, if your girlfriend asked you to take out the garbage, okay. I'll do it.

Stephen Yuan: 43:58

Yeah. It's, it's a little. Four plays nice when it's in the right mood or setting. I just think for most men it's, it's not a priority, you know, and

Angie Yu: 44:08

In one of the first few episodes of friends the, the boys were like, well, we came for the main show, not the comedian. That's warming up the crowd or something. And then women were like, you know, the show's over women just want to go back to the comedian, but we're just trying to stay awake in traffic, going home. And then the women are like, well, if you don't bring back the comedian, then next time you'll find yourself listening to that album alone at home. So I thought that was pretty funny Yeah,

Stephen Yuan: 44:36

Yeah. I mean, it's a good metaphor, right? Having opener in the headliners. I think foreplay's important, but it's, it's just don't think guys care about it too much, unfortunately.

Kristy Yee: 44:44

is really unfortunate. And, and maybe that's a biological thing, you know.

Angie Yu: 44:48

Oh, yeah. Men are like, let me get my seed inside you before the male comes along and get his seat

Kristy Yee: 44:55

now.

Stephen Yuan: 45:00

Yeah. I think actually it's probably do with porn, to be honest with you, because I

Angie Yu: 45:03

Okay

Stephen Yuan: 45:05

evolutionary, we're probably designed the same way, you know, like foreplay is, know, building trust essentially. Right. It's whether it is. but I think porn came along and I was really programmed men, my generation to not even understand what it is, what it does. Right. Because with porn, you're not watching. probably a part of it.

Kristy Yee: 45:24

That's a good point. And you said men in our generation,

Angie Yu: 45:28

Sorry

Kristy Yee: 45:28

I haven't thought

Angie Yu: 45:29

Is it because we're not watching the foreplay because the acting is so good.

Stephen Yuan: 45:34

No, I just don't think most men watch porn like that. If you watch where the, like the most viewed points are, it's usually during like ejaculation moments or, you know, like the immediately leading up to penetration moments, those are usually the highest frequencies of viewers. so it's very like, the right word, transaction driven, know, it's either in or it's finishing, if that makes sense

Angie Yu: 45:56

Yeah. Sorry, Christie. I totally cut you off earlier, but this was hilarious. I'm glad we did

Stephen Yuan: 46:03

probably going to regret this podcast one day. Aren't I.

Angie Yu: 46:05

No, absolutely not.

Kristy Yee: 46:08

I was thinking about how you said, you know,

Stephen Yuan: 46:11

okay

Kristy Yee: 46:12

our generation being influenced by porn And it gets affected into the bedroom. I wonder if people in our generation have a disadvantage because we grew up, we were like the first generation to grow up with the internet. we had way more access

Angie Yu: 46:27

Okay

Kristy Yee: 46:27

porn than the previous generation. And I wondered if our perception of sex is way more fucked up of it.

Stephen Yuan: 46:35

Yeah. So the early studies on this have already come out, you know, cause we spent about 20 years. Right. You know, we've had a generational study done on this. It's really affected a lot of men my age, but myself included probably, you know,

Angie Yu: 46:45

Hm

Stephen Yuan: 46:46

does not just physically in

Angie Yu: 46:47

Okay

Stephen Yuan: 46:47

like performance, but also mentally in terms of expectations. And also like literally everything, you know it's porn is good in many ways and in other ways it's really terrible, know, it's like a double-edged sword in my opinion. it's a necessary evil almost.

Angie Yu: 47:04

Yeah. I think for women, the, the harm that's done for women is that a lot of women are also thinking about performance and thinking about how they look rather than just enjoying themselves. And yeah, it goes both ways. Like if the trust isn't really there, then you're both trying to be like a fantasy version of what you think the other wants. Again expectation

Stephen Yuan: 47:25

with women and sometimes it's, it's actually, I really don't like it, you know, like, at least from my side of these, I can really feel when a, when a girl is much more about how she looks or what I think of her in that moment, rather than just being in the moment, know? and I think porn's probably played a part in that definitely.

Kristy Yee: 47:42

I can speak for just myself. That that's exactly how porn has affected me. women watched porn as well. And, most of my sexual education from

Stephen Yuan: 47:53

Yeah

Kristy Yee: 47:54

Accessible

Stephen Yuan: 47:57

That's probably the best thing that's come out from porn actually is, is the broader education that it's brought for both men.

Angie Yu: 48:03

and bad.

Stephen Yuan: 48:04

Yeah, good enough

Kristy Yee: 48:05

Because I've what I've learned from porn is to be performative. And I think it has really skewed the way that I feel about sex itself it's just, not so much a connection between two people or sharing pleasures. It's just performing all the time.

Stephen Yuan: 48:25

Yeah. mean, very sorry to hear that. understand it's something that I struggled with a lot as well. I think for now, for me, it's a little different just because I guess I have sex a little differently these days. but it's, I think there's some good, important, we're just, we're we're not doing it though the right

Angie Yu: 48:39

Okay

Stephen Yuan: 48:39

right now, I'll change.

Kristy Yee: 48:41

So you mentioned like, you probably felt that way when you were younger, but now you're older, you know, you know more about what you want and you're having sex in different

Angie Yu: 48:49

yeah

Kristy Yee: 48:49

and you're experiencing it in a different way than you had when you were in your early twenties. How did that shift come about?

Stephen Yuan: 48:56

It, the starter in a relationship, you know, I would say my, my ex you know, we broke up about two years ago. We're still, actually, this is the only ex that I'm, I'm on good terms with. but she was probably the first one where I was fully comfortable being myself sexually. And that actually made me realize that that's okay. You know, like what turns me on and how I get turned on is okay. Cause it also turned her on, you know, and then I started being more like that once we broke up with other women as well. And then eventually it just got to a point where like, I really, at this point in my life do not want to hook up with girls random. Like there's, there's very little pleasure. I personally derived from that, you know, no matter how hard they are, I would much rather, that's something to do with the fact that I don't like sex or whatever, but I would much rather invest some proper time and energy in making sure that what I want is also what you want, you know, and that as a good fit and we care about each other and there's trust, you know? So it, it built up slowly, gradually like that. Just basically having shittier sex and realizing that this just really isn't worth my time or energy, you know? And like I said, even right now with this girl, I'm seeing, I've had girls over where I'm assuming they're here at 10:00 PM because they are down to get naked, but you know, it just, wasn't in the right mood. And you know, these are attractive women obviously, but yeah, you just, you set higher standards for yourself and you're clear with what you want and you're okay with it. Right.

Angie Yu: 50:18

And I think that's one of the things that we kind of adapt to as we get older And what you had exactly described about what you want out of your sex life sounds exactly like it can be applicable to a relationship. And I guess why sex and relationship are like, they go hand in hand because yeah, you have to make sure what you want is what the other person wants. You have to respect each other's differences and find similarities. And it's all about trust and communication.

Stephen Yuan: 50:44

right? That's cool. Hey, I'm really glad we got to talk about this today, man. This was fun. I didn't know where this was going to go. I wasn't sure you guys were going to be

Angie Yu: 50:51

I like the topic porn. I think that needs to be talked about more.

Kristy Yee: 50:54

Okay.

Stephen Yuan: 50:55

So I probably, my second documentary I want to make is probably going to be important. It's probably going to be with Asian women in porn. there's a lot of really interesting stuff happening recently. probably

Angie Yu: 51:04

I've started see like the Chinese stuff pop up.

Stephen Yuan: 51:07

Oh, okay. I wasn't even talking about that. I was just talking about

Angie Yu: 51:09

Oh okay

Stephen Yuan: 51:10

the Chinese stuff pops up too. I mean, there has to be right. Like if Chinese people weren't horny there wouldn't be this like 1.6 billion of them,

Angie Yu: 51:16

No, I know. But before it never like, like, it was never like on the first page, like, I don't think anybody's searching for like mainland Chinese porn. You know what It's always like hot Asian gets pounded by two black D I don't know.

Stephen Yuan: 51:32

Yeah. That's usually what it is.

Angie Yu: 51:33

but it's like, but now it's like, Hey, you can watch. Cause we talked about this in, I think episode either 17 or 18 with Karen from another podcast that we had on our show from MX Asian-American. And we talked about that and she said, because she's Chinese, even though she has spent most of her life here in north America, she prefers watching like, like Chinese porn. And she says, now it's become so much more accessible because I guess, because there's more demand for it. There's more supply for it. So

Stephen Yuan: 52:02

Yeah. And people are

Angie Yu: 52:03

yeah

Stephen Yuan: 52:04

open, you know, but think for me, the interesting part was kind of seeing maybe over the last 12 to 18 months, you have had a massive influx of young Asian American girls go into porn, over the last like five years or so, you really had a stagnant, you know, once Assa, Akira kind of left the industry and Elaine and Lee as well a good five years, he had no Asian girls in it, you know?

Angie Yu: 52:24

Why is there a sudden influx of it?

Stephen Yuan: 52:27

no, this is probably what I wanted to do a documentary about. cause there, there was a huge Asian population Asian girls in porn in the late nineties and early two thousands. at that's the time where that shit was super racist, like

Angie Yu: 52:38

Yeah

Stephen Yuan: 52:39

racist, you know,

Angie Yu: 52:40

Yeah I can imagine

Stephen Yuan: 52:41

Yeah. Whereas now it's like a little more subtle racist, know it's true. Nobody racist.

Angie Yu: 52:47

before it was like, yes, it was genocide And now it's microaggression flipping you

Stephen Yuan: 52:55

Yeah. So you had this like five-year period where you have very few mainstream, you know, Asian girls and over the last like 16 months and they're still popping up, you know, and I don't know, it's something I really want to get into because I think Asian women are probably the most objectified gender plus ethnicity in porn followed by African-American males, know? it's just, it's a really interesting thing for me, at least, I don't know.

Angie Yu: 53:18

Yeah. And there's a reason why those two are the most popular demographic, I guess, on dating apps is because yeah, so they did a study and Asian women are the most swiped for and black men are the most swipe for Asian men are the least swipe for and black women are the least swiped for yeah, they did that. I think that was in the U S that was in the U S and it's like, yes, there's definitely a correlation between that and porn.

Stephen Yuan: 53:46

Hmm. Interesting. don't know that I would think that white guys would still hold the hold the top spot, but I guess not.

Angie Yu: 53:52

I don't know. Maybe when I have no idea, like This is a study that was done. I think it was done in the U S so

Stephen Yuan: 53:59

Hmm. Interesting.

Angie Yu: 54:00

yeah.

Kristy Yee: 54:01

Well, it was really great to have you on Steven

Stephen Yuan: 54:04

sure.

Kristy Yee: 54:04

sharing us all of your sexual escapades. and honestly, it's, it's like opening up that conversation. And just even, you know, by talking about you being in an open relationship and, but like, not really, it's just, we didn't go into the details of it, but because it was mentioned, then

Stephen Yuan: 54:20

Sure

Angie Yu: 54:21

anybody Yeah

Kristy Yee: 54:22

get stuck.

Angie Yu: 54:23

Yeah And I hope anybody

Stephen Yuan: 54:24

part, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing. Like I, I'm not saying I'm doing this to great success right now. Right. But you know, it's something we're trying out

Angie Yu: 54:33

And I wanted to say that we're not here to kink shame. So Steven, when you said that, like, oh, the weirdest thing that had happened was this woman who wanted to feed you, it was weird for Steven because he doesn't enjoy it.

Stephen Yuan: 54:44

Yeah.

Angie Yu: 54:44

yeah. so

Stephen Yuan: 54:45

I couldn't stay hard. Exactly. So I'm

Angie Yu: 54:47

yeah exactly Yeah

Stephen Yuan: 54:49

It's like, it's something to do with, with women who is like a maternal type of fetish thing, you know, same reason. Some people have like foot fetish and stuff. It's something about feeding that, so arousal there, it's just

Angie Yu: 55:00

Yeah,

Stephen Yuan: 55:02

to

Angie Yu: 55:02

no kink shaming

Stephen Yuan: 55:03

hard is it's hard to, it turns out

Angie Yu: 55:07

I thought it was cake. What about milkshake? You love milkshakes though.

Stephen Yuan: 55:10

I think milkshake would be easier to do, but like for her it was, it was like the literal process of the feeding. Like it was, know,

Kristy Yee: 55:19

mouth

Stephen Yuan: 55:20

It wasn't what slice to mouth is. Right. It wasn't so much like watching me eat or, you know, knowing like it was like literally this, this motion of feeding.

Angie Yu: 55:28

Yeah.

Stephen Yuan: 55:29

Yeah. Yeah thank you so

Angie Yu: 55:31

Yeah

Stephen Yuan: 55:31

me on this podcast. Christie, we gotta get you online whenever you have time and we can save that diet conversation for them. Cause we can, I would love to go into that.

Angie Yu: 55:38

yeah, that'll be fun.

Stephen Yuan: 55:40

thank you so much.

Kristy Yee: 55:40

thanks again. Okay. Dokies. it is feel good feedback time. And if you hear clicking it's because I just went to a new tab. This is live everybody. We have a comment today from one of our poop troops, And they said, I love that. You're both honest about what, oh my gosh. This font is too small for me, for my poor little eyes. They said, I love that. You're both honest about what things are hard for you to talk about, and then you do it anyways. I think normalizing these difficult conversation is an important part of having them smiley face. thank you, Isabelle for writing that in, because that's the whole reason why we do this podcast so that we can normalize the difficult conversations because we should just be having them so that they're not difficult.

Ep 29 Angie FGF: 56:33

That is correct.

Kristy Yee: 56:35

What else is there to say?

Ep 29 Angie FGF: 56:36

I can see you tapping your screen.

Kristy Yee: 56:38

Oh, really?

Ep 29 Angie FGF: 56:39

Yeah. Because it's moving your camera and there's like little flash of light. Yeah. Yeah

Kristy Yee: 56:51

anyways send us some love, you know what to do DMS. Record. As the voice message or just do it the old school way and send us an email as shit. We don't tell mom because we love to hear the field good feedbacks because it makes us feel good and share the love guys. Show the love.