The Courage to Be Disliked: How to Stop People-Pleasing & Live Freely - Postcard #6 Artwork

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The Courage to Be Disliked: How to Stop People-Pleasing & Live Freely - Postcard #6

January 06, 2025 • Adam Rizvi

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This week, Adam and Stephan dive into the concepts of validation and self-worth, inspired by the book 'The Courage to be Disliked' by Ichiro Kishimi and Fumitake Koga. They explore the importance of not seeking external validation and the challenge of finding inherent self-worth. With personal anecdotes and deep philosophical insights, this episode aims to provide listeners with a sense of freedom and ease. Don't miss this thought-provoking discussion!

00:00 Introduction
03:05 Book Discussion: The Courage to Be Disliked
04:10 Validation and Self-Worth in the Medical Profession
07:11 Personal Reflections on Validation and Achievement
09:49 Inherent Self-Worth and External Validation
19:30 The Power of Self-Validation
26:42 Conclusion and Gratitude

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Stephan: 0:11

Adam, it is another week, another postcard. This time, for those of you who are not fortunate enough to be watching this on YouTube, which by the way, please go like and subscribe to our channel on YouTube, Letters to the Sky, I have a fine book behind me. I'm trying to feature a different book in my life every week since this whole thing started with books. This time, it's the authoritative Calvin and Hobbes. Which Calvin Hobbes were, uh, central to me growing up. So I figured why not highlight them? Okay. Anyway, you know, we have been doing these postcards for a little bit now. Um, I'm really loving them.

Adam: 0:51

you know, you know what

Stephan: 0:52

I'm not.

Adam: 0:52

as a kid?

Stephan: 0:53

I have the talking stick. Yeah. What do you do? Do you?

Adam: 0:55

stick. Give

Stephan: 0:56

What do you use?

Adam: 0:57

I'm going to take the talking stick. Um, Dragon Ball Z, man. Dragon Ball Z was

Stephan: 1:01

I've never spent the time to get into Dragon Ball Z, but I know many people love it. I've tried to watch it and just the animation. I'll try it. I'll try again. Yeah. Okay, good. I'll give it another shot. Um, well, Uh, I think that these postcards have really changed the way that you and I work together and, um, they've made us stay in touch more, which I really, I really am. And if you listen to these and you've loved them, please let us know because I have to tell you and be perfectly honest. When we just decided to do this, we were just doing it because we thought it'd be a good idea. We don't really know if you like them. And believe me when I say any feedback, good or bad is really useful for us. So if wherever you're listening to this real quick, if you can take a second and give us some feedback, whether it's a YouTube comment, if you're watching this, whether it is on Buzzsprout, Apple, Spotify, wherever it, um, goes a really, really long way to helping make these better. And improving them, you know, where this is a marathon, not a sprint for us. And any time that we can get feedback is really, really treasured. And thank you. Special shout out to someone from Montana who just gave us a lovely little fan mail on buzzsprout about these postcards. So we really appreciate it. Uh, we read them, absolutely crave them. Um, otherwise we're talking into a vacuum chamber. So in light with that, I just want to set the intention real quick. Usually Adam and I have been doing these, these intentions privately. We just, we have found there's been really useful when we set, uh, an intention for the episode. And I really want, I really want, um, if you listen to this or watching this come away a little bit more freedom, a little bit more sense of ease in your life. That's what I want for, for you.

Adam: 2:59

Amen.

Stephan: 3:00

Amen. All right, Adam, the hell are we talking about?

Adam: 3:05

Well, uh, we were chatting about different books. Now, this is a postcard, so we're not reviewing a book, but there is a book that really, um, came up on, uh, feeds that I actually read a couple of years ago. It's called the courage to be disliked and it's by Ichiro Kishimi and Fumitake Koga. The book is basically a dialogue between. An old man philosopher and a young whippersnapper who thinks he knows it all, but sort of a cynic. and he doubts himself and what he's doing and this old man is just teaching him about the fundamentals of not caring what other people think and more specifically not requiring You to get validation from people around you to be happy. And there's so much more in that, but now this is not necessarily a review of that book, but just the concept of where do we get our validation from? And, you know, for me, I'll just kick it off. Like so much of being the medical profession is driven initially. By, by competitive energies. Like we are, uh, it's cutthroat. Usually in most medical schools, we compete against our colleagues for the higher grades for whatever we compete against spots in better residency programs, and then we compete for better spots and fellowship programs. And then there's still a competition with where we get placed as attendings and

Stephan: 4:40

Were you a gunner?

Adam: 4:42

Was I a gunner? Was I a gunner? What's a gunner?

Stephan: 4:46

A gunner is the person who sits at the front of the class and answers every question and has their notes written in 15 different colored pens live as it happens. And, uh, it has, it's like the most competitive person I'm say a gunner is a classic Gryffindor student. That's all I'm going to say.

Adam: 5:06

Oh,

Stephan: 5:06

Down with, down with Gryffindor.

Adam: 5:08

Are you a Slytherin?

Stephan: 5:10

Yeah.

Adam: 5:11

That's funny, you're wearing an S on your cap, and I'm wearing, I guess, red ish? I mean, if it was maroon and orange, that would be Gryffindor colors.

Stephan: 5:19

I bet there's, you have like warm light in the background. So if you, if you see that it's kind of like the golden red, I think, yeah, you're definitely Gryffindor.

Adam: 5:26

Okay, I've got some Gryffindor vibes. Okay, I wasn't a total gunner. I was second from the front, second row. Um, I did take really good notes, and, but I didn't, like, Answer all the questions. Because, the, the person who always raised their hand, they just, got made fun of, you know, they got picked on. I,

Stephan: 5:49

Really?

Adam: 5:50

of the answers, but I didn't want that kind

Stephan: 5:52

Who's wait, who's picking on these people in graduate school? What do you mean like picked on what is I mean, I guess they're still like in their mid 20s or something.

Adam: 5:59

I mean, yeah, you're, you're still a kid, kind of. You're

Stephan: 6:02

Yeah

Adam: 6:02

20s, uh,

Stephan: 6:04

Well, I don't support making fun of nerds who are doing their best in the world.

Adam: 6:09

nerds rule the world. Um, anyway, so the thing is like, it's so funny. We get indoctrinated to compete with each other. And the validation comes from who got the better test score, who got the better residency program, the better fellowship program, the better job. And then in, you know, even beyond that, who's getting paid more, who's got contacts to administration, who's got better sway, who's got better. With, you know, pharmaceutical companies or with the hospital. It never ends. It never ends. And it's this unconscious drive to seeking validation from external metrics. And I, I think it's worthwhile to ask ourselves, what do we require? What do we need that validation for? and, and where do we seek validation from? What about for you is, I mean, you lived a very different life than I did. What, you think there was an element of that in you?

Stephan: 7:14

Oh Yeah, I think first of all, I think it's obviously very I think anybody has that Excuse me, but for me, it's almost uh, it's the same feeling but like the opposite. So You I was always a B student. Um, B, not quite Cs. I was, I was always B. I was always smart enough to like get by without doing homework, but it would be a B. It wouldn't be an A. And I was always fine with that. Um, I had, when I went to college back when I was an adult, cause I failed college the first time because I was too high and drunk. So I dropped out of college after one semester. Um, Then I went back to school. When I went back to school, I was again in the sciences. I was a B student, BC. Honestly, um, I found a whole other conversation about the way that we teach science. Um, I found that studying for the MCAT and taking the MCAT, which is the medical entrance, medical school entrance exam. I learned so much more than sitting in classes. But I think I was older and I had the habits already. Um, but anyway, so but when non science classes, I was an A without trying. I had like a 3. 9 GPA in my non science classes. And, um, but I think, you know, since then I didn't get into medical school. You know, I, um, Yeah, I think my life has been, I like a lot of aspects of my life. I I'm really a lot of ways. I'm very grateful for the life I have and that I didn't get into medical school and stuff like that. And you and I have talked about that a lot, the challenges that that brings. But I think I've definitely had that. Seeking approval from others, but for me, I very clearly failed. It wasn't just like the second person from the front row who still achieved all the things I didn't achieve the things. So I definitely, absolutely. I have, um, I have that, um, the same feeling just for me, it's like, okay, I didn't achieve anything. Who am I? Yeah, I didn't. I don't have letters after my name. I don't. Um, yeah, I don't have anything that would outwardly signify I've done anything or achieved anything or have any sort of recognition. So I absolutely feel that. And that's something that I've I've also had to deal with

Adam: 9:47

Stephan: 9:47

from the other side, maybe.

Adam: 9:49

Yeah, that's a good point. So in a certain sense, you're sort of, I imagine, forced to find validation, not from the external world, but from from

Stephan: 9:59

So that's a that's a that's a great point. Yeah,

Adam: 10:02

Yeah. I don't know.

Stephan: 10:07

mean, there have been times in my life when. You know, I didn't have enough money in my bank account to do anything. I mean, there've been times when I really just had nothing and you really, I think when that happens, you really have to deal with who you are and what you're worth because that of all things, um, is, uh, you know, by a lot of us just marked as a huge point of failure. Like you've done something wrong. And, um, I think I, I've, I think it just being faced with it for such a long time. I think that I've just realized that whether I had the money in my bank account or I didn't, I was still the same person. And, uh, and that's just one example, but it's kind of like your faces, your faces in the mirror so much with what your ideas and concepts about yourself and then how that clearly isn't happening in the world outside of you that you start to see that, like, it's just a story. Yeah. It's just, it's really just a story. And I think that it's, for me, I really started to see that my inherent worth is not tied to what someone else thinks of me. Let, I mean, honestly, even what I think of me, right. Cause there's plenty of times when I don't, haven't liked myself. Um, there, uh, one of the, another author who I really, it goes back into. Kind of what we're going to get to in this next part, I think, is one of the authors that I, I kind of, I like, I have a love hate relationship with him, like probably most of his readership, Nassim Taleb, um, he wrote a couple of amazing books, but one of them, he talks about getting advice from other people, and he says, unless someone has the life that you want, ignore, you can freely ignore any advice they give you. You know, if someone like for me, like someone out in the world who is super, you know, like a type in the world, not just a type, because that's really, you can be a type about a million things, but like super go getter about the world and. Earning and they don't, they don't see the other side of it. They don't see the inter, the inner world, you know, any advice that they give me. I think if it's about achieving things in the outer world, I might take it, but it certainly doesn't teach me how to be a better person or a happier person. And I don't take it as that. And I think a lot of when I was younger, um, or had less practice with this, uh, I would have taken them said, Oh, they have something I don't, and I want that. So I should listen to what they have, what they're saying. And now I realize that. They don't, they don't have it any more than I do. And, uh, one of the, I think we've, we've mentioned it on the podcast a long time ago, but it's worth refreshing is there's, I have three rules for life. Um, the first one is that everyone's full of shit. It just means. It's a coarse way of saying no one really knows no one really has the answers they have their answer. They have an answer, um, but even an enlightened being can't make the decision for you. You have to make the decision for yourself. Um, that's the first rule. The second rule is that the teacher is messing with you, which I know we haven't talked about that in a while. But and then the third rule is unless the teacher isn't messing with and those, you know, those those two rules again come back to the come back. You don't know. You don't know. And, um, So I think, you know, the first rule that everyone's no one really know has the answers. And so I can feel comfortable in making the decision for myself, which I think leads us into what we probably the greater topic we want to talk about, which is getting validation from others.

Adam: 13:47

Yeah, yeah, well, you know, this book, The Courage to be Disliked, has so many interesting, um, core concepts. One of, one of them has to do with shifting your of validation from competing against the world and then achieving something to contributing to the world, specifically contributing to a community. So you're, you, whether, unless you're absolutely, completely removed from society. is some degree of involvement with community for most of us, whether it's our work or family or where we live, our city, town, contributing to your community in some part gives you a sense of belonging and this book argues, you can derive a sense of validation from, from contribution rather than competition. And I would go even deeper, which relates to your point, that Not requiring you to do anything in this world to feel like a valid, worthy human being, you don't actually need to contribute. You're still worthy as a human

Stephan: 14:57

Yeah.

Adam: 14:58

And my way to that, and I'm going to offer this to listeners and viewers for me. I'm constantly aware of the fact that as I see someone else, I see myself. There's an ongoing mirror like relationship with reality. So if I want to shift how I see myself, namely feel like I'm self. Like I'm unworthy, independent of what I do, then I have to first start seeing people around me that same way. And

Stephan: 15:29

Um, Um,

Adam: 15:54

no soles. I, I noticed this very subtle initial reaction of what, you know, question, what did he do to end up that way? did they do to end up their way? And then I caught it. And then I told myself, each of these three people are absolutely worthy. They're absolutely beautiful human beings. And there's nothing that either of them needs to do. be a worthwhile human being, uh, honored, respected, loved. And I noticed that when I did that, there's this, the, the subtle unease in me around, you know, being, in this city sort of settled down because I felt like now I didn't need to worry about how I looked. I, I knew now about myself, I'm, I must be worthy. So I make a practice out of this. I always train myself as best as I can to see others in a particular way is specifically in a way that I want to see myself.

Stephan: 17:04

Yeah, so what do you think? Okay, so then let me ask you then, what do you think? How do you relate that to? I think you might have answered this, but it's kind of like, I want you, I want you to talk more about how that relates to your self worth. And, and not, and, and you're, you're not needing validation from others. Is it, is it because you see that everyone has the same value and that means that you have the same value? Is that, is that where you're going?

Adam: 17:36

Yeah. I wouldn't use a value. Um, I would use worth.

Stephan: 17:42

Okay.

Adam: 17:42

word. Um, like inherent self worth. I can see someone. As inherently worthy and specifically worthy of right? Um, of respect as a, as a fellow human being, I can see the people around me as inherently worthy of that and not need them and not need to know that they've contributed to society in some way,

Stephan: 18:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Adam: 18:23

is to feel, I have a very util, I know this about myself, a very utilitarian, um, Way of looking at the, at the world. I, I would rather get a Christmas gift that has some sort of use. I would rather give a gift that is useful in some way. And I have a tendency to view my life in that way. It was, I useful to the world around me. Was I useful to my family and to my friends? Um, have I been helpful? Um, but the. And the trick of the dark side to that is I'm not worthy as a human being. If I haven't been of use to someone, I think there's a lot of mothers having heard my own own mother share this we became adults and she wasn't useful anymore, her own sense of self worth was brought into question and she had to shift her own sense of self worth from a mother that was useful to her children You're worthy just because you're alive. You don't need to be useful to someone to be a worthy human being. And that's the point that I want to

Stephan: 19:27

Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I think, um, the jump on to kind of add on to that, I think, is this idea of again, one of the themes, at least of what I end up talking about is the lack of control that we ultimately have. And one of those ways that we lack control is we really can't choose how other people see us. You know, there are there are people who do so much good for the world, and there are people who have devoted their entire lives to service, and there's still people who hate them

Adam: 20:02

Yeah.

Stephan: 20:03

who think that there's scamming or garbage, you know, whatever those nasty words are. Someone who's, I mean, and I'm not, I'm not that person. I have, I have not actively devoted my, my life in some sort of mission to like outwardly healing the world. Right. Like I think I have inward and that's how I approach life, but certainly not in some globally recognized, you know, organization, I think. And it's just, we really have, you know, We can do whatever we can and our best to make people like us have the right opinions, but it doesn't matter. Someone can still decide that we're wrong and that we have the wrong opinion or that even if we have the right opinion, we're still wrong. I mean, there's, we just don't have control over it. And so I think when I realized that I started. I started going inward and saying, Oh, kind of what you were just talking about with utilitarianism is, okay, what value do I put on myself like, and the values and principles that I live? Um, and that's when I kind of defined success internally, right? Like, um, It's watching a video of John Cena is such an amazing man. Uh, he was talking with a couple of guys and he was saying, you know, John, he's this movie star, WWE wrestler. He's actually, I don't know if you know this. Um, I think he is by far in a way, uh, the highest ever performing make a wish foundation. Person like he does he does more of it than anybody by by leaps and bounds like his like he he does the make a wish thing giving these, you know, these kids going into terminal, you know, terminal illnesses. That's what he does, like, and he was saying, like, He was saying, um, every day I say, like, when the sun sets, I say, did I earn the sunset? And sometimes, and you're not, didn't go where I thought it was. Whereas like, go right to like, did I earn it? Did I like achieve? He's like, no, sometimes I did work. And sometimes I just relaxed. And as long as I am comfortable with myself, like I know that I earned the, And integrity with what I needed that day. I earned that sunset. And I thought that was really, I thought that was maybe a different way than I'd word it. And, um, but I thought it was a really beautiful way of expressing that idea that it comes down to your own sense of worth, your own sense of worth that you, you just can't rely on what other people think of you.

Adam: 22:39

Yeah. Yeah. If you, if you live, live life by your own Define what those are and live life by your own values and not by the values of what others think of you. It's so easy to intellectually understand that, and the only way to get around, uh, to get past intellectual understanding to actually living that is to the truth. that head on to face the desire for validation approval from others and just look at it look at it without judgment see where it's coming from and let it go.

Stephan: 23:18

Yeah, I think, and I know, I know this has been a, this has been a long postcard, but I, I don't feel like, I don't feel like I'm done. I think we need to talk about, or I want to talk about, um, what that, what that feels like, you know, when I, when I go back to even now, cause I'm certainly not immune to, I'm a hundred percent, not nearly immune to what people think of me. Um, I, you know, you think about what is it, what does it feel like to let go? Okay, someone doesn't like me. Someone doesn't like something that I've done. What is it? What's the internal feeling right for me? There's a sort of like crumbling. There's a sort of a crumbling a breaking down a disillusionment of myself. I think that's like the the darker aspects were in order to like, you know, Feel like I have myself together. Like I'm whole. I have to, I have to listen to what this person says and they have to be happy. And, um, I feel, but when I really, but when I really sit with it and actually just meditate on that, I, that's just a feeling like any other feeling. It's just a particularly painful one sometimes, but it's, I can, I can still sit with that feeling. Okay. What does it feel like? What it would feel like. If my family disagreed with me, like the people that are closest to me, disagreed with me, or you could do a stranger. If you can't even, if that's tough, like, what would it feel like if a stranger didn't like a stranger disapproved of me and see, am I pushing or pulling away from it? Am I saying, Oh God, I don't want that. I want to feel, I want to fit in. Or am I saying, you know, F you, I don't need your opinion. Like, am I pushing against it the other direction or am I on my neutral and say, okay, yeah, it is kind of uncomfortable, but I'm. I have to make the decision for myself. You know, it's, it's, it's ultimately my, my decision. And I think a lot of good can come from just sitting with that, that feeling and, and just reflecting on it and kind of like tasting it and

Adam: 25:18

Yeah, yeah,

Stephan: 25:20

at it from all sides. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Adam: 25:25

you're you're so self aware. That's the key is to have the courage to sit with that feeling because in truth we all were social creatures. We like when other people approve us and love us and and tell us they love what we're doing. And I think if when that doesn't happen, we, we have to be honest with ourselves and face that emotion. Um, I'll say that in, in practicing it, you'll realize you're still there. There's a you that's witnessing the emotion that's observing it. Steven's still there. Then it might appear that things are crumbling apart, but Steven's still there and watching. There's also a lot of power in being the person to give yourself validation. self talk, the benefit of self talk. You know, athletes know this, they talk to themselves, they tell themselves, you got this, you're doing great. Like, there's a lot of power in that. And there's a whole other topic we can dive into, like internal family systems and at the way we treat ourselves. But suffice it to say, Um, be the person to give your own validat validation.

Stephan: 26:39

Thank you.

Adam: 26:42

And with that, sir, we wrap up yet another postcard.

Stephan: 26:46

Get another postcard. Well, thank you, Adam. Thank you, everyone who listens. Um, we can't tell you how much we appreciate you wherever you are, whenever you are. Really, really grateful and grateful for you, Adam.

Adam: 27:00

Grateful for you, Steven, and all the

Stephan: 27:01

Till next time.

Adam: 27:03

Till next time!