Accelerating Evangelistic Momentum in a College Ministry with Paul Worcester

In 2009 Paul and his wife Christy planted Christian Challenge at California State University, Chico from scratch. Since then hundreds of students have indicated decisions to become followers of Jesus, with many growing as disciples and learning to multiply their faith. 

Paul is the author of “Tips for Starting a College Ministry,” “Do More With Less Time” and the coauthor of the new edition of “The Fuel and The Flame: Igniting Your College Campus For Jesus Christ” with Steve Shadrach. 

He has a passion for equipping and encouraging fellow collegiate leaders to make disciples on campus through his writing, speaking, consulting and social media. Paul is on the team behind Campus Ministry Today, Collegiate Collective and CollegeMinistry.com. 

Paul just launched Campus Multiplication Network which provides training and coaching for collegiate ministry leaders who desire to accelerate evangelistic momentum, multiply disciples and plant new ministries. 

Topics Discussed:

• How Paul’s ministry has grown from a new ministry, started by he and his wife in 2009, to a large and thriving ministry with 17 staff members. 
• The impact of memorizing scripture in discipleship and spiritual growth.
• DICE (Discipleship in Context of Evangelism)
• How Paul’s ministry at Chico State is focused on individual engagement in this season. 
• A helpful strategy to connect with new students using Instagram even if you can’t meet in person.

Additional Information:

Please visit the episode webpage for links to resources and other items referenced in this episode.

Transcript

0:37

Well, what's up, everybody. Welcome back for another episode of the college, faith and leadership podcast. So glad to have you joining today. And we've got a great episode coming up. I am so excited about this conversation with Paul Wooster and before we get into it, why don't just give a heads up? Unfortunately, we had a little bit of an echo issue when I was speaking at the beginning of this interview. And, uh, fortunately it does get much better as we get deeper into the conversation. And it's only when I'm speaking. Uh, but uh, definitely something I'm working on is I'm trying I learn all the technical aspects of podcasting. So, uh, hope you can hang in there because a lot of great insights shared by Paul in this conversation. So without further ado, We'll jump into it

David: 1:31

all right. Well, I am here with Paul Wooster. Paul is a hero in the world of college ministry, and he is someone that I've gotten to know, uh, really online. This is our first time having, not quite a face to face conversation, but the closest to it so far. Uh, Paul, so great to have you on the podcast today.

Paul: 1:53

today, man. I'm excited. I love what you're doing. I love that you're started this podcast and it's been awesome to get to know you, David, and I love your articles and we've shared your articles on the campus ministry today. So I'm stoked to talk to you, bro.

David: 2:08

Bro. So great, well campus ministry today, that's an organization that you're involved with with Steve. Shadrack great set of resources. I know our local campus ministry that I serve with in the Philadelphia area has really benefited from the ministry of campus ministry today as have countless other college ministers around not only the U S but around the world. Uh, but Paul, I know you're also on the ground. You are a campus minister. In California. Could you tell us a little bit about what you're doing there and, and the role that you play in the ministry at Chico state?

Paul: 2:46

Yeah, 11 years ago, my wife and I, we moved from Oklahoma where we went to university of Oklahoma and we just, it was just my wife and I, we moved out to Chico, California, which is Northern California. It's a small little college town, about a hundred thousand, uh, people that live in the town in 17,000 students. And, uh, there wasn't much ministry going on on the campus at the time. There was a couple of really healthy college ministries, but percentage wise, It was very small, the amount of followers of Christ. And we just started sharing the gospel and making disciples. And over the years, God's really blessed. It, hundreds of students have come to Christ and now we have a staff team of. So seventeens, a staff full time staff that are on the staff, on staff, on the campus, multiple campuses, we've branched out to the community college. And then we're also doing different targeted outreaches for athletes, Greek ex internationals, that kind of thing. So

David: 3:45

That's incredible. Did I hear you correctly? That you said you have 17 people on your team with the campus ministry full time.

Paul: 3:51

Counting, counting my wife and I. So yeah.

David: 3:55

Paul that's

Paul: 3:56

That's why I was struggling. I was like, did I say 15 or 17? Like, you know,

David: 4:02

Amazing man. Well, yeah, you share so many helpful articles and, and I know we were joking a little bit before we actually hit record, is that you've got a twin brother. Uh, but man, I feel like you're everywhere online. Like every EV every time, you know, I'm on Twitter or Facebook or anywhere, I'm like, Oh, Paul's doing a new webinar. He's doing a new article. And so, man, I don't know how you manage, but, uh, amazing just to see, you know, what God is doing through your life. And I know you've been just a tremendous blessing to so many collegiate leaders, uh, Well, man, tell us a little bit, if you would, because we've got a range of people listening to this from a young college students, maybe just first year students, even on into collegiate ministry leaders and staff workers as well, really centered around these themes of college, life leadership and Christian faith. And so if you don't mind, take us back, tell us a little bit about your journey entering college and, and really what that experience was like in regards to your, your faith and faith in Jesus.

Paul: 5:11

Yeah. Well, I grew up in a Christian family. I came to Christ. Legitimate, um, conversion as a young, as a young kid. And I was actually, um, kind of up and down in my walk with God, even throughout high school, but I had never been really discipled, really personally discipled. And I came to university of Oklahoma. And all of a sudden there was like these two worlds right there, the Christian world and the Baptist collegiate ministry, which was, I jumped right in to join that. But there was still all this other stuff, the partying, the girls, all that stuff. And so I was kind of like, at that point, it was such a crossroads for me of like, which 1:00 AM I going to do? And so I kind of struggled, especially that first semester and I was at a winter conference. And so, I mean, I think those conferences are so important. For what we're doing as collegiate leaders. And then if you're a student, man, whatever you can do, it's worth the money. It's worth the investment to get to those conferences. And there was a guy named Nick Ripkin. He wrote a book called the insanity of God. And this was way before he wrote the book, but he was telling all these stories about persecuted believers, and he was talking about how they were risking their lives to share the gospel. And I remember thinking. If these people can risk their lives to share the gospel. At least I can risk a little rejection by walking down the hall and knocking on the door and risking looking uncool and a little bit of awkwardness and my brother and I that's when we lived in the dorms at the time. And we started a Bible study and knocked on every single door, um, of this four story dorm. Every Tuesday night and we bribed them with pizza. We called it the spot. We did poker tournaments. And then we did Bible study afterwards. We did everything short of sin and maybe some things that were just to get the people there. And then we shared the gospel with them and, uh, but we didn't know anything, what we were doing. We were just like, kind of zealous out there guys. And the BCM director, his name's max Barnett. Got David and I together and he just started discipling us. He had us memorize verses together. That was the very first thing he did was he gave us this acrostic, glorify the Lord, and it was basically these basic verses, um, and how each week he tested us on those verses and my noble ambition in my heart. Was to not be the twin that didn't have his verse memorized. Okay. You know, I just didn't want to be the one that didn't have it risk memorized. And so I memorized the verse the first week and the second week I did and we had to quote it to each other and by the fifth or six week, like my mind like started changing. Like the way I saw the world, like my, um, by the end of that year, that summer, I really made some decisive things to overcome some struggles I had with pornography and things like that. And some growing in my purity. And then he also taught us about disciple-making. So it's one thing to do ministry. It's another thing to make disciples. And then my brother and I, we started personally discipling. People were leading to Christ. And from there we saw actually we saw really exciting stuff happen as students we saw about 50 people come to Christ in the dorms. We lived in the dorms all four years and we saw multiple Bible studies started and disciples raised up. And so that was a super exciting

David: 8:42

that's amazing.

Paul: 8:43

on the campus and seeing that. But the key was that personal disciple-making was, was the thing that made the difference in my life.

David: 8:50

Man. That's incredible. Well, it seems like that's something that you've really carried with you. I mean, just in what I know of your ministry at Chico state and just the emphasis that you have on, uh, evangelism and discipleship, uh, it seems like you've really built a strong culture of that in your own ministry. Uh, what is, what do you think you've done if you could give us just. Maybe a couple keys or pointers, um, that, you know, really have helped to replicate that because that just isn't always the case.

Paul: 9:26

Yeah. Yeah. And this idea of spiritual multiplication a second, Timothy, two, two, the things you've heard from me in the presence of many witnesses and trust the faithful men who will be able to teach others also, that really works. Okay. Like spiritual multiplication works, but the thing is, is it takes time. There's going to be some guys on the call or, or girls on a call. They're starting new ministries. And once something, someone told me at the very beginning was, Hey, don't stress about numbers at first because spiritual multiplication takes time. And that was so encouraging to me because at first couple of years, I was looking at the ministry that was already there and they had a bunch of students and they had a bunch of staff and they were, they were killing it in a lot of ways. But I just had to learn to keep my head down, keep sowing broadly with the gospel and then keep pouring in personally one-on-one cycling. Um, those that God did give me and God worked it over time. We, it just built every year. We got a bigger batch student leaders and our goal is to go from last, have a student go from last to labor in one year.

David: 10:37

of

Paul: 10:38

So we want to, everything we're doing. Once we get someone to decide to follow Christ, or they're already a Christian, they plug into our ministry. We want them to, we pour into them, deeply learn how to have a great time along with God, start memorizing scripture. We found out that that was a thing that like no one did. And they did maybe when they were kids in Sunday school, but we're like, Hey, this isn't just for kids. And it started renewing their mind and then deepening their prayer life. And then sharing their faith. Like that was something that once a student starts sharing their faith, there's something believer there's something inside you that says yes, like this is what I'm made for. This is like, you have this joy from the Holy spirit. And so taking them with us to so broadly, that's a key. The term we use is sewing broadly with the gospel is that's how Jesus made disciples. Is he, he. So, so it broadly with his disciples, his disciples shipped wasn't Hey, let's go out in the wilderness and study the book of Isaiah and talk about our struggles. He was, he did some of that. I'm sure. You know, like they traveled and he lived with them. He did live with him, but he also said, let's go to these towns and villages, where he went to every town and village and sometimes they were working so hard to share the gospel that they didn't even have time to eat. If you look in Mark one, that was the case. And then even when he tried to get away for some rest, he, there was still his compassion. When the crowds came to him and he looked at him and he had compassion and he taught them many things. So Jesus modeled the urgency of evangelism to his disciples bulls and, uh, Steve shatter economics. I call that dice discipleship in the context of evangelism. Okay. That's, that's what it is. And so we love to see a student that's new to our ministry or new to the faith. If I have a gospel appointment, which is what it sounds like, it's an appointment to share the gospel and really creative, and we'll bring them with us. And we have a policy kind of a goal in our, for our staff is never share alone. And so we'll always like have a new believer or someone new to our ministry. Sit with me and play wing, man. They don't have to talk a lot, but, uh, I'll just, I'll just, just show him how it's done. And a lot of times that person comes to Christ right on the spot. And the person sitting next to me, we debrief afterwards. He was like, wow, that was awesome. Like, first of all, we didn't die. No one died from awkwardness. And second of all, like. This is amazing that that actually worked and you show them how it's so natural. And so that kind of discipleship is not so much just lessons to go through it's life on life. It's we call it. We just say discipleship is monkey. See monkey do so. You're living that life. You're investing in people. And, uh, and it over time multiplies. And so we have students that by the time they, you get to the, their sophomore year or their second year of being involved with us, they're praying every day over the summer for one person that they can lead to Christ and start to disciple. And so like this school year, like 70 student leaders, um, and then we saw 207. People pray to receive Christ on our campus. So just like multiplying out and the harvest is plentiful. The laborers are few. Right. And so the problem is not with the harvest. The harvest is plentiful. The problem is a lack of laborers. And so our job as leaders is to raise up more laborers. Um, so that's, that's a little bit about it.

David: 14:35

Man. That's amazing. Yeah, it makes me think of a. A leader in, in the, every nation movement, which I'm a part of Steve Morrell, amazing guy. And he has this saying, he says that it's discipleship, it's the same old, boring strokes. And really he's talking about the same idea that you just shared about just the simplicity of sometimes we're just looking for something new, some just get big, quick sort of strategy when in reality, Those sorts of shortcuts. They really only hurt you in the long run. That it's just like what you said about, Hey, pouring into someone and then you know, this ministry that you have it didn't, it didn't get to the point where it is now. Overnight or over the course of one year, but it sounds like it's been just over the course of years of faithfully sharing the gospel, reaching the lost making disciples, and then just year over year kind of like what compound interest does, you know, which can be either a great thing or a bad thing, you know, really bad if you're in credit card debt, that's working against you hard, but just the same idea where. Man it's, it's just being consistent, being faithful, doing the simple things. The things that Jesus modeled for us with his disciples 2000 years ago, and these fishermen, they turned the world upside down because they had spent time with Jesus and they just went forth after this process of discipleship.

Paul: 15:56

Yeah, I love that. I mean, and that's the difference between addition and multiplication and a lot of our discipleship that we even try to pass off as spiritual multiplication is what I call dead-end discipleship. Okay. And this, when Christians meet with Christians to make them more Christian, and really, we need to push ourselves too. Look outside of our Christian bubble break out of it. And so we have a strategy, we call it the personal ministry target strategy where we're. Yeah, of course we do the big outreach stuff at the beginning of the semester. And we try to together team together to do kind of ministry mode evangelism, but also every student leader has their own personal ministry target. So they're rushing fraternities or sororities, and that's actually pretty risky. Uh, but some people have said, Hey man, that's really risky. And I'm like, missions is also right. Risky, you know? And so they're actually rushing usually with another Christian student leader. And even as juniors, they're going into these fraternities and sororities and they're building relationships. They're starting of angels. The Bible studies. One guy, Matt. He started his first Bible study. He had 16 guys, all non-Christians come and they were talking about how they love to read the Bible while they're smoking weed speed and stuff like that. So he's like, wow, we got a lot of work to do here, but he's in the mix and setting up gospel appointments. He's had two or three. Legitimately come to Christ since then, and then he's working to disciple them. And, uh, so it's just like going from just like, Hey, come to our big meeting too. Let's go into every pocket of people, every nook and cranny on campus. Compare people, compare it to a pancake or a waffle. Okay. A pancake. You pour the syrup of the gospel on the center of the pancake, the center of campus. It goes everywhere, but it's, the campus is more like a waffle there's lots of little nooks and crannies. The drama majors don't necessarily hang out with the athletes. Don't hang out with the fraternities and sororities, you know, and vice versa. So. That's that's kinda, that's one of our main strategies too. So it's like not an either or it's a both, and it's like the big picture, fall outreach, push, um, big events, free barbecues, free pizza at the beginning of the year, but then also we're training students to just live on mission wherever they're going and to be missionaries in those contexts.

David: 18:31

Paul that's fantastic. Well, coming back to something that you said earlier, just in talking about helping students grow in that personal walk with the Lord, you know, one of the. My all time. Favorite passages of scripture that I think is, has been just so impactful for me is in John chapter 15, where Jesus is explaining how he is the vine, where the branches, and just really painting this beautiful picture of staying connected with him in order to have his life flowed through our life and producing fruit and fruit that remains, and, you know, just the picture of really producing fruit with our lives at all. Hinges upon staying connected with Jesus himself. I know that in today's world with all the digital distractions and, you know, great, we got the Bible app and all these different Christian Instagram accounts with various scriptures and all kinds of stuff, but it just seems that there's a fight, like perhaps never before to really. Have that personal connection with the Lord and maintain that devotional life. And so I know even in our ministry, that's something that I feel like we're always wrestling with and trying to help students with. And you mentioned in particular, Memorizing scripture. And again, living in a Google world where you can just Google any Bible verse at any time and boom, there it is. What are some things that you have done or your team and your ministry that have really practically helped to encourage these things in a, in a world where everything is so easily accessible and maybe it might not feel as important or necessary to memorize something that might sound like a bit of an old fashioned idea, or even just with the inundation of. Constant information.

Paul: 20:18

Yeah. I want to, I'll start with the scripture memory idea is, cause that's something that's just like. I don't meet a lot of people that do, unless they're really trained to do it. And it's one of the hardest things, because we have such lazy minds. It's like everything's even quicker just at our fingertips through social media. And our attention span has, is actually it's been, they did studies where it was smaller than a goldfish, actually the, the generation Z and their, their, um, Their attention span is that, is it smaller than a goldfish, but it's like your mind and your brain is a muscle. And so working it out, memorizing those things and dwelling on it, meditating on scripture, Psalm one where it says, bless it. As the man who does not walk in the counsel of sinners or stand in the way of scoffers. But his delight is on the law of the Lord on this law. He might've tasted day and night. He's like a tree planted by streams of water. Who yields fruit in season, whatever he does prospers. And so if we, you want to be that man, that yeah. Person that meditates on scripture day and night, you actually have to have it memorized first. And, uh, that's, it's, it's really interesting. Once someone starts memorizing scripture, whether it's whole chapters or whether it's little short verses that that means something to them. I that's when I usually start to see a really dramatic transformation take place in other areas in their personal disciple-making and their prayer life in their purity. Um, that's man, when not the verses that I've memorized have been the greatest treasure in my life. Like when I memorize that I memorized in college because. They help, correct me. That's like the Holy Spirit's vocabulary to me is like, he reminds me of a verse of scripture when I'm tempted. How often are you attempted, and you have like an open Bible in front of you. Like not very often. It's usually as you go through your day. Yay. And like the Holy spirit will give you that verse that'll flash in your mind and, or it'll be my entire, almost my entire personal ministry is based on verses that I've. Memorized. I'm able to give it to him when I'm counseling. Um, or even when I'm preparing messages, like a lot of my cross-references and other verses that I'm using just as I have opportunities to share it's passages of scripture that God's given me. So it's like just, it's made such a big difference in me. And as I teach others there, I've never seen it fail yet. So it's like, I've never had someone be like, Hey, I remember as these 20 verses and I haven't noticed any change in my life, like that has not happened.

David: 23:04

Yeah.

Paul: 23:04

if it ever has, you know, unless maybe they weren't really a truly born again, believer, but most people, if they're going to memorize 20 verses, they're going to get saved because those verses are gonna kind of convict them, you know,

David: 23:15

there, there you're depositing something in your heart. That's probably going to produce a different outcome. Yeah. You know, that's interesting. You mentioned that Paul, because, uh, there was a time in my life when I was really focused on scripture memorization. Um, There's a resource great resource by another ministry called the navigators called the topical memory system, a really helpful tool. It just, it just simplifies everything, got all these cards and you just, you know, kind of perforated edges, tear them up. And it's got little verse holder and just, just a disgrace. And I remember that being a really sweet season. In my walk with Christ of just constantly coming back and, you know, just having that, the word kind of in my heart and a top of mind. And like you said, for me, I think that even that season has been something that I've drawn on for, for years. Just the word, even during that season alone, that I deposited into my heart, um, through that scripture memorization.

Paul: 24:15

A great app. I'd recommend. Cause a lot of people don't use the little cards or verse packs anymore. It's great if you do, but, um, it's called scripture. It's called um, well it used to be called scripture typer. Now it's called Bible memory. The Bible memory, app, Bible memory pro the Bible memory app. And you can link to it in the show notes, but man, it's a, that's what I use. And it's a great tool,

David: 24:41

Excellent. Well, Paul regarding evangelism, I know that you and your team there at Chico state have recently put out some articles and some things I've been thinking about. Evangelism and particularly even just meeting new students in the context of sort of the, the COVID era that we're living in with schools in many cases, either there they're not having any in person classes or perhaps in other cases, having more of a hybrid situation. Um, would you mind sharing a little bit about how you and your team and your ministry are thinking about engaging students as well as evangelism in our current environment?

Paul: 25:24

Yeah, I think it's actually a great opportunity for evangelism because a lot of people are lonely and they're broken. Like they're there alone. And then they're also, you know, 90% of college men then even Christian man, they did a study of Christian men are addicted to pornography. 50% of Christian women are addicted to pornography. And when you're alone in your room corner, it seems like that's going to be worse. And then also like depression, mental illness, and then just loneliness across the board. Is a really common thing. And so, so people, I, we found that a lot of people are happy to talk to anyone about anything, right? Yeah. And, and so a phone call from a Christian friend, just asking two questions, Hey, how are you? What's going on? And then, and really listening. And then how can I pray for you? You know, they may not be, you could say, you know, I'm a Christian. I like to pray for them so seriously. Like, is there anything I could be praying for you about. And we've been encouraged to hear how people have responded with prayer requests about how they're feeling, or maybe it's someone in their family. Like it's very rare for a non-Christian to be offended by it, for, to pray for them. And so that's a really good open first, first impression, really good open door. And then. We started these discovery Bible studies. So we call them discovering purpose. So we wrote a four week Bible study, um, which is like a super invested, designed to weed, the gospel into that question of how, how can I discover my purpose in life and kind of what the gospel says about that. And we just have them call up their friends. So we got teams of two or three student leaders. And they would call up their friends and say, Hey, I'm starting up. I don't know if you'd be interested, but a couple of my friends are starting this investigative study group. I'm looking at what the Bible says about how it can have purpose in life. And it's actually designed for people don't that don't know what they believe about God or people that aren't Christians. And I was wondering if you'd want to join, join that with me. And so they literally just make a list of like 10 friends. And call through that list. And if three people calling 10 friends about 30 people, they call, maybe they have five people come, you know, that say, Oh yeah, actually I'm actually really interested in that. I'll check that out. And we've had, we ended up starting about 14 of these little investigative discovering purpose studies. And then as they're throughout the course of the four week study, they're discussing the different things and talking about what they believe and questions and stuff. And. And then they just set up gospel appointments on zoom. And, uh, we've seen, um, 17 people come to Christ since COVID-19. Yeah. And that's, it's just through those, that combination of that relational evangelism conversation. A lot of people, a lot more have gone through the process. A lot of people we've shared with say, I'm not ready. But when you share the gospel, you lead people to Christ. There's a direct connection. How many people you share the gospel with and how many people you lead to Christ. And then another thing we're doing is we're deeming freshmen that are Chico state class of 2024. And so we're following those. There's some, they use the hashtag Chico state class of 20, 24. We're doing some different strategies there. We can actually link to an article in the show notes about that, but basically we're DMS and telling them about challenge and offering to meet up and get to know them better. Tell them more about Chico and then also share about our group, which are groups all about the gospel. And so we're seeing a lot of people come to Christ that way. Actually we've seen a good number of students come to Christ, already incoming freshmen that are planning to come there. They're the kind of people that. Are already, God's already working in, you know, and that's one of the things in my life like God did a big shift in the way I viewed evangelism was that Matthew nine 36 through 38 passage, where Jesus saw the crowds, he had compassion on them because they were harassed and helpless like sheep without a shepherd. Then he said to his disciples, the harvest is plentiful. The laborers are few, therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest. That he may send laborers into his field. And that, that idea of the harvest being plentiful, the laborers are few. There are people right now that God is working in, right. There are people on your campus that God is already working in, and he's been working on them for years and it's our job to go find them. I call it the divine Easter egg hunt. Okay. We get the joy and privilege of just discovering and. That's always I've from my experience, people that so broadly that have that mindset, like they lead people to Christ, like when they're looking for those opportunities

David: 30:24

Yeah, man. That's fantastic. Uh, there's a Bible study. I went through years ago about just. Hearing from God and, you know, discovering God's will for your life. And the key idea from this book was, uh, find where God is at work and join him there. It's like, it's that simple? I think the author's name was Henry Blackaby. Uh, and so, yeah, I love that divine Easter egg hunt. I think I'm going to borrow that.

Paul: 30:51

that.

David: 30:52

Uh, that's great, Paul. Well with that, you know, I I've, I've taken a look at those Bible studies that you've mentioned and like probably most people involved in college ministry at this point, we're trying to rethink like, how are we're doing things and how do we meet students and how do we make a difference in this season? Uh, You know, with those Bible studies discovering your purpose. I mean, those are very packed with scripture. I mean, I looked at them and so certainly not, you know, I wouldn't think to someone new joining those, I wouldn't think they would be like, Oh, you know, like, you know, they, it seems like they would have to be open to a significant degree, even if they're not Christians to looking at scripture and that sort of thing. And so is that, is that sort of, you know, as you talk about. Really looking for people that are already somewhat open. Is that really the thinking there is that, Hey, you're not looking for the people that are just totally closed off. And you're trying to just take them from a negative 15 all the way up. You're just more looking for those people that are right there on the edge. And they're, they're pretty open and they're not going to flinch at reading some Bible verses is that, is that really why you've taken that approach in some of the studies that you've written.

Paul: 32:05

Yeah. And I think there is a lot of people. That are, you know, that that are, are close and open and God has been working on for a long time and taking a really straight up approach. People really appreciate that. So even when I do gospel appointments, I say, you know, I, in the course of a conversation with someone I say, Hey, this is something that I share. I love to share with everybody. And I'd love to get your thoughts on that. And it's low pressure, relational and honest. And so like even people that are really against it. They've told us like, Hey, I don't agree with this. Like, I'm not a Christian. I don't agree with anything you said. And I find it offensive. Actually, some of it, you know, you know, but I appreciate the way you did this and how straight, straight forward you were, how honest you were. And so we don't try to mask it. We're not trying to hide the fact that it is a Bible study looking at, or a Bible discussion. Then, you know, talking about what the Bible says about having how God can help us find purpose in our life. And it's for people that are exploring faith or at least interested in discussing this.

David: 33:12

Yeah, that's fantastic. Well, Paul moving on. I know recently you've been involved with Steve Shadrack, whom we've referenced multiple times in this conversation, a great guy, uh, just kind of a legend in the world of college ministry, but, uh, you've been involved in rewriting the book titled the fuel and the flame with him, which is a book that has. Really helped a lot of college ministry leaders over the last probably 15 years or so. Um, could you just talk a little bit about this book and share how this new updated version is different from the earlier versions?

Paul: 33:48

share how this new updated version of different from the earlier? Yeah, totally. Yeah. It's um, we're really excited about it and it's got really. We've we've seen some really encouraging things already from it. We did this thing called global project was like an online summer training program. And we had like 1800 students go through it and they all read the book. And so we're, we've been getting a lot of really good feedback, but yeah, that book actually changed my life when I was in college. And so it was, he wrote it 17 years ago now, and it was pretty new. Um, when I first read it and man, it trains the way I saw. Ministry. It went from just doing ministry to multiplying disciples. And, um, so the thing that was he, when he first wrote it, he he'll admit this. He wasn't sure he was kind of half writing for staff and half writing for students. And there was a lot of lists and, and kind of. Part of, it felt like an inspirational book. And part of it felt like kind of like a handbook or a workbook type thing. And so what we wanted to do, he, he approached me about helping him write it, shorter chapters written specifically for students and more of an inspirational book, but also with a lot of tools and practical resources. And so that's our goal is for it to be really punchy, really easy to read, and then also packed with like tools a student can use to turn around and share their faith and disciple others. And, uh, so I'm, I'm really excited about it. I think it's, it's been, uh, got some really good feedback, actually. It's the advanced reader version, so we didn't even release the final edition. We just released it. You can go buy it right now on Amazon. But it's not the final version and we're actually going to send out a survey to get feedback on it. So I would love to have anyone listening, check it out and send in a, a survey and let me know what was horrible about it. And we could change it, you know,

David: 35:51

That's great. I'm so excited about it. I've begun reading it. I'm a few chapters in, and I was just getting freshly fired up and excited about. The ministry on campus after even reading just a little bit of it. So I'm confident than anybody that reads it is going to be encouraged and strengthened. Uh, I previously enjoyed the older versions. I think I might actually have like a copy of every edition. I'm like, wait, I've got one with, with this cover. And then I forgot I had that one. I have one with like the flames on, and then I've got like, now I've got this one, which has a, a yellow cover. So I've got the ebook version, uh, you know, hopefully I can get once. The, the full version comes out. I'll get a paper copy of that as

Paul: 36:30

dude, I would love for you to get them all together and take a picture, send it to me. That'd be great.

David: 36:35

That'd be fun, man, but yeah, excited. And I just think so many people are going to be encouraged from reading that. And so, Paul, thank you for the time that you've invested into helping to rewrite that. Well, Paul, one final question here, as we've got again, a variety of people listening. I want you to think back to your first year in college. And if you could give one piece of advice to the 18 year old version of you, what would it be?

Paul: 37:05

Read the fuel on the plane. It's just getting shameless plug. No, no, but that, I mean, that really is what I would, it's a whole book full of advice. It's written for a college student. So, but I think really start memorizing scripture, like lots of one thing. Like I went through a season where I was kind of slacking even in my later twenties after college slacking on my scripture memory and I wish it would have been more faithful. Um, and honestly I need to work on it some more now actually I need to get better at it. So I'm not where I need to be at the moment. But man, memorizing, being a person that really digs into the word learn to, I think the Bible is kind of a, an acquired taste sometimes. And at first it's hard to get into, or you just kind of want to do just enough to make yourself feel good, but really dig in and learn to study it, learn to memorize it, meditate on it. Cause that'll be the thing that sticks with you and then get some mentors, get some, some people in your life where they can pour into your life. There's nothing off limits. So they can't ask you about, and then man, be bold. Start sharing your faith. Um, look for opportunities to take that risk and step out because that's something yeah. When you step out and you take a risk, that's when the Holy spirit is going to, you're going to start experiencing, if you want to experience God, like share your faith. If you want a worship experience like it, you can go to a worship concert, but nothing is better than sharing the gospel with someone and seeing them cross from death to life. Like there is no better joy. In Christ thing, getting to see someone come to know him and getting to pure part of discipling them and, um, and then baptizing them, getting them connected and then seeing those people turn around and lead others to Christ. Like there is nothing better in life than that.

David: 39:00

Well, Paul, I couldn't agree more. And this has just been such a fun conversation and, uh, I know I've enjoyed it. I'm sure our listeners are gonna enjoy it. We've mentioned a lot of different resources. I'll be sure that include links to those in the show notes and Paul, I'm sure some people are gonna want to get in connection with you. They're going to want to reach out, uh, what would be the best way for people to reach you online.

Paul: 39:23

yeah. Um, I'm on Twitter. Uh, Paul Lister, Instagram, Facebook. Uh, but also my email, we can put my email on the show notes and, uh, that would be, I'd be happy to interact with anyone. And then we just started this thing called campus multiplication network. And if you're a new collegiate ministry leader, I'd love to connect with you where we actually it's a one year coaching process with one on one coaching cohorts, and it's about 10 hours a month. And we've seen God do amazing things and people's ministries as a result of that. So I'd love to check out a campus multiplication network.com and we'd love to connect with you guys,

David: 40:02

great. Well, Paul, again, thanks so much.

Paul: 40:05

man. I appreciate it.

40:08

Well, I just appreciate Paul so much. He is one of those guys that has really inspired me, really encouraged me over these past few years. And he's just one of the most generous people. I know when it comes to helping others. Uh, particularly in the college ministry space. I know he's helped a lot of leaders over the last few years. And I'm excited to check out some of the things that he's doing currently in particular, this updated version of the fuel on the flame book, as well as, uh, the, uh, campus multiplication network. So encourage you to check those out as well. And if you haven't yet done. So I want to encourage you to get a copy of my free resource, entitled 15 tips to help you grow a college campus ministry. And it's just a few things that I've learned over the past. A decade and a half of doing campus ministry and tried to boil down some of those experiences and insights, things that I wish that I had learned and heard earlier on in my experience that I think can help you, whether you're a veteran ministry leader, student leader. Or, uh, someone who's a vocationally serving on campus, but, uh, pretty fresh in the journey. So what I encourage you to check that out, you can download a free copy from my website. And, uh, I'll be sure to link to that in the show notes as well. Well, I know that many of us are beginning a pretty unusual year of ministry on campus. In some cases, colleges are not even meeting in person and other cases they have, uh, started early and, uh, just a really interesting situation. And so in the midst of that, I hope that the podcast here helps to serve you. With fresh ideas, fresh encouragement, fresh perspective. And as you continue in your mission to spread Christ and spread the gospel to other students on campus. Um, I'm praying for you today. So hang in there and we'll get through this and please reach out if there's anything that I can do to help or anything that we can speak to you on this podcast that. Uh, would be particularly helpful to you in this season. I would love to hear from you. And with that. Uh, hope you have a great day. Great week. Great upcoming year of ministry and stay encouraged.