From the Projects of Brooklyn to University, Choosing Jesus over Free Masonry, and Helping Students Manage Stress with Kevin McKenzie

Kevin McKenzie had a difficult experience growing up in the projects of Brooklyn. He was nearly killed several times and had an outlook on life that was powerfully influenced by those early experiences. However, he made it to college and was on track for "success," but something was missing. Through a series of experiences and miraculous events, his core beliefs were challenged and he became a devout follower of Jesus. 

Now, years later, Kevin serves as a campus minister with Every Nation Campus in Cambridge, Massachusetts and, along with his team, is finding innovative ways to help college students overcome crippling academic pressure and leading them to experience life in Christ. 

Transcript

David: 0:36

all right. Well, I am here with Kevin McKenzie. Kevin is a, an old friend and a great college ministry leader, uh, up in Boston and Cambridge, Massachusetts serving with every nation campus as the local director there, as well as in connection with a lady at church at MIT and also Northeastern university, Kevin. So great to

Kevin McKenzie: 1:00

Yes, Dave. Thanks for having me, Dave.

David: 1:04

Yeah, man. Well, just excited to, for this conversation and just even as you and I have been talking outside of this medium, just in, in our work together and campus ministry, I've been just really encouraged recently to hear some of the ideas that you and your team have come up with. And just specifically helping students navigate stress, helping students navigate their schedules in the midst of not just the every day realities of college life at elite universities, but. Even more so in the pandemic realities. So, man, we're going to get into that just a little bit, but Hey, if you could just share a little bit of your background, your story of coming to Christ and getting into ministry with our listeners.

Kevin McKenzie: 1:45

Yeah. So, um, I'm from Brooklyn, New York. Uh, if those of you familiar with Brooklyn, East New York Brownsville area, these projects, homeless people turn them down because of the violence and the crime that's prevalent there. And growing up the dominant religion was 5% or more commonly known as the nations of gods and earth, um, of five percenters. And what they believe is that, um, The black man has got 85% of the world is in shackles and chains and chains. 10% of the world, um, knows the truth, but hide it. And 5% of the world that's the 5% is know the truth and reveal it. And why that was so empowering to me is because it was the first time. It was the first thing I ever saw and heard. Told to me that I was valuable that I was at King, my lineage wasn't as white, a white guy, blonde hair, blue eyes, Jesus, that I would see in these churches so often. And they wasn't living a hypocritical lifestyle of what I was seeing from Christianity at the time growing up. And so that's was the religion that I practiced up until college. In college things started happening inward in my life where I started to question if I was a God, why was I struggling with certain issues in my life? I was one of the brightest. I'm not saying that to brag, but I graduated top 10% in the state of Florida A&M University The Florida A M University where I attended because it was an HBCU, never in my life. What I probably be surrounded by such bright intellect minds with people of color that looked like me. So I was proud to go there and I never forget. One day I got. Um, we got grades back, great grades, but I still felt empty. And I started the question, like, if I'm God, why would I feel this empty? Why life doesn't have much meaning outside of girls being fresh. And getting good grades. Right? Cause if the, if life was all about getting those things and getting more of them after I graduated, I felt like I have accomplished everything there was to live for at that moment. Um, because growing up, my family had businesses that were illegal, that brought in a bunch of money. And then, um, when you start abusing the same joke you're selling, you start to see this. Decline of a family rapidly. And so if we were got, how could our family go through such things?

David: 4:39

Wow. Yeah.

Kevin McKenzie: 4:40

And so that got me questioning and Dave, one day I was at the end of the rope where at the inside, but outside it looked like I had everything going. And one of my friends looked at me and was like, man, how does it feel to be you. And I said only if you knew what it feels like to not want to be yourself. So I remember my grandmother telling me about this Jesus. She always went to church and I had to go when I was a kid sometimes because she was my childcare and I couldn't comprehend how she was served as bad. And he had us living in the projects. Right. And, um, you know, almost got killed a few times in those projects. And so. There was this one thing she always used to tell me is that, you know, God never leave you taste and see the goodness of God. Like this is what you're searching for. You're going the wrong direction. And so, Dave, I never forget I was in my room and I closed the door. And I said, Jesus, if you are truly the way, if you are who you say you are, I need you to show me in the way that I can't go in the lab and like, prove it. I need something real, something tangible. And I had a Masonic Bible. Now. I typically don't share it as plot that a testimony. But I'm going to share it because it's your day. I have a co I became a free Mason and my, one of my best friends told me I just joined a cult. And I said, it's not a coat. Right. And another guy who was a Christian, who was becoming a Freemason with me, he just left. He left it. I kind of comprehend it. And my grandmother, it was the first time she said, I am praying for your soul in your life. So I said, I do this. If you truly are who you say you are, I need you to show me this sign. I went to bed. And the next day when I woke up Dave, that may Sonic Bible that I had, which is different than the Holy scriptures that we have that may Sonic Bible hat was split into parts of physical leather bound split into, well, I can give you half and I can take the other half. Now. I know that sounds dramatic and that everybody had that experience. But on that day I knew there was one God, one person to serve. And I got on my knees. And I said, thank you, Jesus. And it was the first time I cried Dave, what did joy? I felt something real intangible. I knew from that day, this wasn't just like a bunch of rules to be followed. It wasn't just behavior modification. It was transformation inside out. And that's the day I became a Christian at Florida A M University.

David: 7:36

Man. That's incredible. Yeah. I've known you a long time and I've never heard that part of your story, man. That's that's incredible. Thank you for sharing that, bro. I mean, it's just man, I'm honestly, I'm speechless. How did, how did that affect you? You know, coming out of that moment, I mean, it sounds like you had other friends that were going down that similar path. Did you share that with other people at the time?

Kevin McKenzie: 7:57

I did. You know, I think some people were nervous about that decision that I made and it was lonely. It was lonely for some time because my three roommates, they were professing Christians, but not living like Christians. Um, I mean we would go out together and get girls and things like that. That was like the height about. I would days, but so in the beginning it was lonely. Dave, I would just be in my room, reading the Bible, studying it, going to class. And I had to isolate myself from a lot of the people that are hanging out with, because the only thing that they were concerned with where my old life, like how I used to be. Well, Hey, what we doing tonight? What we smoking tonight? Which girl we trying to hit up tonight? Right? So it was lonely. And I eventually, um, uh, invited my friends to have Bible studies with me. And one by one, all of my roommates started living righteously. Um, one of my friends now is in Maryland, planted a church out there and doing really well. Another one was working for a church, another one. Um, it's probably about to open up his own Chick-Filet soon here. Uh, so it turned around, it turned around. Yeah. I mean that eventually the Bible study eventually turned into a church plant. Um, so yeah,

David: 9:30

Man, man. That's amazing. Yeah. And just Kevin, for those that don't know you, I mean, again, you know, you and I haven't known each other for a long time. I mean, you're, you know, you're a very grounded person, you know? And so when you share about this very supernatural kind of experience, you know, it's, it's just. Yeah. I mean, to me, that that is impactful, you know, and also just what you shared about that is that this isn't something that was just kind of emotional or subject to interpretation, but like physically, this thing was ripped in half, you know? Um, now just, just curious what, what happened to that? Did you end up just getting rid of that or like, what did you do with it from that?

Kevin McKenzie: 10:08

I went to the trash can and threw away every Masonic item that I ever had in own jackets and everything. I think I was, I was 18 when I became a Freemason. You typically have to be 21, but I had somebody vouch with me. Um,

David: 10:25

Well man, praise God.

Kevin McKenzie: 10:27

yeah, I did that. Um, like I said, I lost, I lost some friends. When I became a Christian, um, and oddly enough, you know, some of my family members were shocked that I would become a Christian because I used to make it a practice, a habit of sitting down with Christians, specifically, black Christians, open up Genesis one through three and go, how do you believe in these contradictions from the opening book, but I was ignorant of. You know how you read the scriptures of poetry in different literatures in the genre, right? Um, yeah.

David: 11:06

Well, how just, just, just to continue on with your story, cause this is fascinating in a, you had this encounter where God very powerfully met you, and just reveal that, Hey, this path that you're going down with Freemasonry, this is not the right way to go. You had this major turning point moment. Committing your life to Christ. How did that continue to progress from that point on how did you, I mean, even with some of those things in the early chapters of Genesis, where you thought about them one way, or you saw them one way and you had this whole view towards Christians, understandably, so with some of your past and your upbringing, how that influenced you, but how does, how did all that begin to reshape, you know, in your thinking

Kevin McKenzie: 11:44

Okay. That's a great question. Uh, so it was almost as if I had to unlearn everything that I have learned about Christianity, um, and religion, uh, and being black. In America, right? Because I think you learn Christianity wouldn't have been my religion. Had I known my ancestors come over here on a boat or were taken right on a boat. I had our architects and engineers not been taken on a boat and created by slaves here. But when you look at historically. Uh, with Christianity in the origins, some of the great founders we typically hear about Calvin and things like that, but totally in, and these other men who were people of color, who were around in Christians, in Africa, before slavery was ever invented in America. So that when you start pointing out the holes in our lives of what I was taught, this could have very well been my religion way before, even if slavery never happened. All right. So, um, religion is fluid because of man it's not, God is not flawed. Um, and so, and then you, when I started learning about that and learning about, uh, like the selective texts that was being used in slavery and things like that, I go, Oh man, we didn't have the full Bible. And then, um, I think what started to shape me even more than just looking at this, um, History of Christianity. It sounds it's going to sound so simple, Dave, but praying and spending the first 45 minutes of my day, just praying and reading the text, um, being transformed by the text. Um, that, that was, that was it. Yeah.

David: 13:36

Man. That's powerful. Yeah. I remember even when I was ministering at Florida a and M years ago, and just hearing some of those things, even just across the campus, I remember a book for those that, that might be curious on this topic. Um, it's called a black man's religion by Craig keener and it goes into it honestly, like. Probably a full third of the book is end notes. That's a Scott references to all these sources and things, but just, it's just helpful. I think even in, in seeing sort of the early, very early presence of the Christian faith in Africa, I mean, we're talking from the first century, uh, is something that even perhaps, um, You know, one of these people that, that carried the cross for Jesus, Simon of siren. Well, where's a siren. Well, that's a Northern Africa, you know, it's a, you just see, uh, I mean the Ethiopian unit, well, where where's that, you know? So you see, you see that even from very early on. Um, but yeah, Kevin, it's just interesting to hear it, the very personal level of how you've been your journey of, of kind of discovering some of these things was just. Helpful for you. And just simply even beyond the historical exploration aspect, the simply spending time with God in prayer and reading his word for yourself. Uh, how, how instrumental that is. So, man, that's really

Kevin McKenzie: 14:49

Yeah. Um, the, the second thing I would have to say is it was really beneficial for me to be around other Christian men who challenged me and helped shaped, um, point out inaccuracies and my thought patterns, um, that, that was, we call it a spiritual family and every nation. That was another thing for those of you guys don't know, Dave, actually. It was one of the men. Uh, it was two men in the water who baptized me. Dave was one of the two. I'm not going to say the year, Dave. Yeah, I don't think.

David: 15:22

Okay. Going back a little bit. Yeah. Well, man, that was a, that was a great moment, man. Such an honor to be a part of that step in your journey.

Kevin McKenzie: 15:30

So Christian family also is significantly helped.

David: 15:34

yeah, man, it's a big, big deal. You know, we, I believe we can go further together, you know, as family, as a community in Christ. So man, that's amazing. So even just to take us to the next step of your journey, I mean, how did you get from your you're a college student getting right with God at a historically black college in Florida? Uh, I mean, you're this amazing stuff happening. And then, you know, now fast forward, I mean, you're married, you're in Boston, Cambridge doing full-time college ministry there. Uh, how did you get from point a to point B.

Kevin McKenzie: 16:10

Crazy Dave. So, um, you know, when I became a Christian, I remember God, I gotta give everything up to the Lord. Cool. I can give him all of these things, but don't touch my career because my plan was, um, I was going to be a dentist. And so I studied molecular and cellular biology at Florida, a and M and, um, I was, I was going to be a dentist and the plan was to make about 200,000 a year, go back like in Brooklyn, open up some health clinics in Brooklyn, uh, in areas where I was from and pull up in a Bentley. And show them to show like my people was the paperwork and go, yo, nobody can take this from me. Right. I get pulled over right now. They said, my name is not from the chop shop. This is, and this is my Saturday call. Wait til you see my Sunday car. Right? I want it to show my neighborhood a different way. Dave. I wanted to show them like the block. It doesn't belong to us. We die on is black. We lose family members on his black. And they blow cry out and it doesn't belong to her. So I wanted to change the narrative of what people that look like me can accomplish and show the generation behind me a new route, a new way. Right? Because for a long time, I know dudes in my neighborhood, they don't go past certain blocks. Right. They're confined to these concrete walls. Like they call it like the Brooklyn zoo of what happens in there. So they don't see people that look like them successful. Their big Israel motto is the one on the corner, on a stoop who got the woman who got their cos who got the jewelry who look nice. If I could make that much money in this one day, why do I need to go to school? Cause I don't see anybody who went to school or made it like, what's the benefit of going there. So I wanted to change that narrative. So fast forward, I go to a Boston university graduate school. In my first semester of a grad program there, um, which was cool. They allowed you to do research and dentistry. Cause I wanted to do public health dentistry to open up these clinics. Um, and the guy adjunct professor who was dead, that was at Harvard that I really wanted his class. So he was in the program and I was on my weight days. And what happened was I never forget. I met a kid. In central square, not too far from where our church is that his mom had just kicked him out. He was, he was homeless two days for two days. He had been riding the trains. I met him in central square and a kid, the short brief, we get them back home, his mom, like we talk, he and I talking, he gets back, his mom lets him back home on the one condition that he continues to talk with me. Six months later, I get a phone call from his mom, Dave, and she goes, I need to sit down with you. I want to talk to you about what's happened to what my son, I say. Sure. Right? Let's let's talk. She comes over, we meet in central square. They lived in, um, you're not familiar with the terrain, but they live some time away and like Roxbury. And she says, I heard of Jesus. I haven't went to church as a kid, but the Jesus that my son has, I that's what I need. And the reason why she said that her son got saved, he was at an alternative high school in Boston. This school was for people who got expelled from every other school. You come home from juvie. This is where you go, where the rest of the public schools come in handy. This is where you go. So there was gangs in the school and she said, my son has not gotten, uh, gotten, um, kicked out of school. He's preaching the gospel to a science teacher and they are talking about transferring him back into the main population, a regular high school. And Dave, there's only a couple of ways to get out of this high school. Statistically, you get killed, you move or you age out. And they were talking about transferring this kid back into mainstream school. And I know he got transferred because I went and got a job at a school before I became a campus minister.

David: 20:35

wow.

Kevin McKenzie: 20:36

And so when that happened, when you Mark, I say, His mother got saved and they started going to church. I go, yo, I am dead broke. That broke is that other bit of my life. And I'm transforming lives. The very thing I wanted to do when I became a Christian right before I became a Christian. So I started to question, do I even need it money to do this? Does it, it doesn't take a bit. I was at McDonald's and let this guy right. It doesn't take a Bentley. To change somebody's life. So I had the most valuable thing with me all along and, um, to be honest, that was the first step. And right after that, I failed my, um, into physiology exam, found it the biggest if I ever got, because I couldn't concentrate, I couldn't focus. And I kept thinking about what happened. When I sat down with his mom and I saw the gospel changes kids' life. Um, and so I went to my advisor and just said, I don't think I'm supposed to be a dentist. And, uh, she goes, well, what do you think's supposed to do? I said, teach. And I did go teach. You might have school, but, um, my wife at the time said, you think you call it to be a teacher? Like, uh, to be honest, if I'm gonna be honest, I'm gonna keep it 100 on a day podcast. I looked at the salary for what teachers making BPS and granted it wasn't 200,000, but if I stayed there for five years out, have been at closer to six Vegas. Um, I didn't want what came with being a campus minister. Um, the fact of here I am. From the projects about to go make a boatload of money. That's almost in my family. What I did was like turned down a contract to them. Yeah. To go preach

David: 22:48

you had your ticket, basically. You were on your way.

Kevin McKenzie: 22:50

Yes, yes,

David: 22:52

it basically.

Kevin McKenzie: 22:55

Made it. Um, and so again, it just reminded me of. Man. I, I probably laid down a whole bunch of people in my family, but I serve God. And when I told people like, this is I'm going to do this, um, I'm going to be a campus minister. Right-hand Boston. And my wife was like, yeah, you've always been called to do that. You just was followed with the money in when she said that it stung kind of hard, um, because it was true. It was true. Um, but so when I left and I resigned, I went to work at Yuma high school and oddly enough heads was the biggest turning point to get me to campus ministry. So at the school I was an assistant because I had to get licensed first and they call it a para and the size teacher went on paternity leave. So I was qualified. I was way more qualified because I had degrees in this. So I became a science teacher and they go at the end of it, the students pass this science portion of the state exam. And the principal comes to me and says, wow, I don't know what you did, but these kids passed. I think everybody was shocked. And Dave, you want to know what I did for the first 15 minutes of class? We spoke about the gospel, every class. That's what I did and prayed in the hallways. I did teach them, but I didn't teach them everything that they needed to know for that exam. I pray for these kids. We spoke about the gospel, right? These kids wanted to come to class. Something was happening in the school system, Dave and I will be on these kids' blocks talking to them about Jesus. Right. I will be seeing them at school outside of school. And they be like, yo Mackenzie, you coming through right. Thinking the gospel was in this school and it was like this truth, but right. You got the kit from Geneva app or the kid from, uh, Warren gardens. Like these are two opposing hoods, but when they stepped into class, it was like, all right, we got it right. That right. Cause we about to be family right now. So, uh, I did that for two years and then I knew it was time if this is what I wanted to do with my life. Um, So I resigned from there, went to the, every next to school to campus ministry. And now I am at MIT and Northeastern.

David: 25:34

man, such an amazing story. Kat, this is just fantastic. I'm just so encouraged. Even in just, you know, recounting your story and hearing bits and pieces of it that I had not heard before. Kevin, just so glad that you stepped into this. It's current season of what you're doing and just impacting the next generation. Kevin, I did want to just come back and ask you a little bit, just, you know, again, this season we're in right now. I mean, everybody is stressed, pandemic, all of that. Uh, but these colleges, there are already highly stressful environments. And so for you, what are some of the things that you and your team there and you, you lead other, other campus ministers there as well, you know, impacting these universities. What are some of the things that you guys are doing currently to really rise to this challenge and minister to students in this environment?

Kevin McKenzie: 26:24

there's a few things that we do. Just, just so the hair is know when students come to Harvard, MIT, specifically MIT they're indoctrinated with this day. Sometimes people get on stage and say, you are not the smartest person. In this room and you will fail, right? Because you think what comes out of Massachusetts? Um, so many startups, so many CEOs like drop box NASA, right? Like all of these different envisions that come out of here. So students come from being. Top of their class to potentially be in Latin, in class and fairly for the first time ever in their life. So there's a lot of pressure placed on them once they get accepted into these universities. Um, so they, from the, from their first year, it's almost as if they have to perform and have to compete and so much. So some students sadly decide to, um, In their life because they can't deal with the pressure. So knowing that one of the first things now that we do is something called one 68. Um, and one 68 is how many hours you have per week. And what we do, what we do with that is it's like an assessment. We tell the student to write out everything that they do. Everything. I mean like laundry, extracurricular activities, video games, the classes that they take, um, how many hours they want to study. So we have them write out all of the things that they want to do. All of the things that they currently do. And we say, now write out how many hours you spend doing those things. And what we find, um, for, we do this for Christians and non-Christians, and what we generally find is two things. One students waste way more time, way more time than what they think. They're not as busy as they are. Secondly, they overestimate what they think they can accomplish. So once we get them to that baseline level, we start going, okay. Now, what is the most important thing for you to do? Who are you called to be? So we start working with the identity piece. Who are you called to be right now? If for the student they go, Oh, I'm a student, so, okay. That's probably already one subtract that from the one 68. How many, let's say you got eight hours a week in class. It's now you got 160 hours left for the week, right? So we start subtracting and then we go, what things bring you. Life and enjoyment. All right. So we w some may say I go to church and do these things, right. And the non Christians say, Oh, I like to play games. I like to watch anime, or we go, okay, let's be generous with that and give you 10 hours. It's like 10 hours a week for that. Right? Um, that's more than you, you're doing leisure activities more than you in class. And what we found found by doing this one 68 and at the end of it, we come up with a schedule for students is like a life schedule that brings them joy and allows them to be students. And for the Christian, it allows them to have peace with God. Right. And not, not cut out the things that bring them life. Cause oftentimes when students get stressed, they start cutting the things that bring them life. And at the end of the one 68, we find that students are more productive, less stressful going into finals and midterms and exams it's because now they're doing the things that they enjoy as well as doing school and they can go, Oh, this is where I wasted my time. I can be better here. Um, so that's one of the things that we do. Um, and to help supplement that we, we have a Bible study at 8:30 AM in the morning. So oftentimes it's the first thing that students do when they wake up. It's log on to this Bible study. It's like a 15 minute devotion to structure a day off, right? Yeah.

David: 30:43

Yeah, those are some, some cool ideas. Kevin, w what's some of the feedback that you've been getting specifically on the one 68 assessment as you've been doing this? I mean, if people have been excited to do it, reluctant to do it, once they do it, you know, what kind of feedback are you getting?

Kevin McKenzie: 30:57

So this is some students go, Ugh, man, what am I doing with my life? Like I wasted, like I said, I waste so much time and some students go, I don't know if I could keep this up. Right. But I don't know if I could do it. So by having different things, Like the monitor devotional, um, the midweek group, the, uh, men's and women's group, give them tears. Like it puts them in it. Like I talk about this, um, spiritual family to help them move along. So, um, we check in, in the morning time we check in, we pray about it. We encourage one another. So the biggest feedback that I got that we get when we do it with the students is thank you. Thank you because I don't think time management is something that people learn before coming to college quite right. Um, and especially in Massachusetts, where the pressure to succeed is so high, the bar is so hot and um, sometimes students let stuff go, the extra curricular activities, they let it go. Uh, we say, what are the things that. Uh, for the Christian, we say, what are the weights that holds you back from fulfilling your duty? And they might list some things out of that one 68 and got that. So we, we say, all right, let's cut it. What happens if you cut it? I had one guy tell me, um, he was a part of four different extracurricular activities and he hadn't slept in two days. Two days. And I go, why is that? He said, because if I let something go, my friends will think I'm dumb. And I said, do you know, in jesus' family, you are loved and he's given you this intellect. And the kid just started crying

David: 32:52

Hmm.

Kevin McKenzie: 32:53

and I invited him to Bible study. Um, and he came and he was so thankful because he was around people who looked at them, not for what he could accomplish, but they cared about how he was doing and his soul. Um,

David: 33:10

fantastic. Do you find just on the front end of that though, do you, you know, do you find that people are, are willing? Cause it seems like in that kind of culture and just even my own observation that sometimes people are so busy that they don't even want to take the time. To assess anything it's like, no, I just got to keep going on the hamster wheel. I don't have time to look at my schedule or break all this down. Like how do you present it to people initially? And what does that look like?

Kevin McKenzie: 33:34

initially. Um, so you, I always do it, um, for the leaders, for our student leaders, we have, uh, like a leaders retreat and we have them do it there when finals is over and things like that. But for new people, Um, like that may come to group. We're not on campus anymore, but when we all on campus, I would say, Hey, I know it's finals. Um, let me pay for your lunch. I just want you to do it as quick assessment with me. I mean, you say I'm paying for the lunch, you get a whole group of people in the room. Right. Um, and so initially it's just, they, some people you get mixed reactions. Some people go, no, I don't want to do that. Um, I'm cool. I'm fine. Um, when some people go, ah, I'll be interested in that because at MIT, I, you just ask, do you know, one 68 is. I'm talking like, um, computer science or something like that. I don't know if the number of hours in a week.

David: 34:33

that's great.

Kevin McKenzie: 34:34

Um, but sometimes I go, I bet you, you waste more time than you think you are. You're not as busy as you think. And, and to hit on something. Um, the most rude thing I probably say is you're not as important as you want to be. Right. And they go, what, what are you talking about? I do a, B, C, D grant a day somebody's case, uh, starting companies right now, the second year. Right. And I go, yeah, but you're not as important as you think you are, or as you want to be, I can guarantee it. Let me show you. Right. So when you offend them a little bit, they go, Oh, prove me. Let me prove you wrong. And I go, Oh, okay.

David: 35:13

Yeah. And how, how has that connected into more direct gospel type conversations? I know you gave one reference just a moment ago, but could you unpack that a little bit more?

Kevin McKenzie: 35:23

Yeah. So, um, with the gospel, what the, um, how the one 68 correlates with the gospel more is like, I mentioned the things that bring them life. And when students talk about other things outside of the gospel, I said, you know, there's something that is life-giving for now and it's peaceful for later. And it's the best thing. You will ever encounter, let me help you. Right. Um, if I'm there, it's a number of directions that can go to, um, I would charge it lately. It's been really good and generous. They give each campus minister like a budget for ministry and I go, how about for the next five times we meet, I pay for your lunch. We go through the one-to-one book. And at the end of that, You're not convinced about this gospel, I'll leave you alone, but I almost guarantee you that your life will be transformed. And that is how, um, the one 68, like, was good for us here in the South. Like when I was at fam, I could just tell people, you know, you live in wrong, anybody. Oh man, you right here. It's almost as if. I have to make them doubt everything they ever believed, like doubt their doubts. And once I get that in it in one 68 is really good at doing it because it points out that they're not as busy as they think they are. And as something is more valuable than what the work that they're currently doing. Um, and I get their attention. It's weird because it's almost like when you offend them, then they, they pay attention because you prove them wrong. Right instead of, Oh, what else do you got stored up?

David: 37:13

yeah. Man. That's really interesting, really helpful. Uh, but just, just, even from multiple vantage points of what you're doing in the midst of the pandemic, but it sure seems like this is something that would be very useful in any circumstance, helping people assess their time, helping people. Assess priorities, you know, what's life giving to them and really just connecting that to what's of ultimate value and ultimate importance. So, Kevin, I just really appreciate you taking the time to share your life story, your experience, as well as just what you're doing now, man, just grateful for you, grateful for your service to Jesus in the kingdom of God. And man, I believe that what you share here today is, is really going to encourage a lot of young leaders that are listening. Uh, anything more you want to say before we wrap up?

Kevin McKenzie: 37:58

Yeah. The another cool thing that we do is, um, these Instagram posts where I mentioned our morning devotionals, that's 15 minutes where students take those, um, post a summary from the morning devotionals posted them to. ESE underscore MIT ESE, underscore Northeastern, and their Facebook feeds and they tag themselves in it. And we've been getting a lot of hits from that where students are saying, this is what helps me get through.

David: 38:31

Hmm.

Kevin McKenzie: 38:32

Um, we've been seeing, um, international students log on. I think we're averaging at least one new person a week. Be it local or international justice morning. Um, someone logged on and said, thank God that you guys made this post. And I found you on the media.

David: 38:50

wow.

Kevin McKenzie: 38:52

Yeah. So that has been really helpful and encouraging. For students as well, Jess, they know every morning that stare ms. Sharon.

David: 39:02

Yeah, that's fantastic. Well, I love the creativity. I love the perseverance and it sounds like it's been fruitful in the midst of everything that we're currently walking through, uh, both locally and internationally, Kevin, um, Man. Thanks again. Just, just appreciate you and just appreciate your time today. So I have to have you back again sometime, but, uh, really appreciate you joining today.

Kevin McKenzie: 39:26

thanks for having me, Dave.