Relational Ministry, the Impact of Listening, and Growing in Evangelism as an Introvert with Courtney Nazaire

Courtney Nazaire, campus minister with Every Nation Campus in Philadelphia, shares the story of her personal journey to faith in Jesus Christ and speaks about  her passion for leading from a place of authentic relational connection with others in the context of ministry...
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Transcript

Dave Hess: 0:37

all right. Well, I am here with Courtney Nazaire Courtney. So good to have you here today. Thanks for joining.

Courtney Nazaire: 0:44

Yeah, thank you for having me. I'm excited.

Dave Hess: 0:47

Yeah, well, Courtney, just to introduce you to the rest of the audience here, uh, Courtney is a, recent graduate of temple university, 2017. And Courtney is a current campus minister with every nation. In Philadelphia. So Courtney and I work on the same team in campus ministry. And Courtney is just an incredible person on so many levels, but just has a real gift for relating with people, connecting with people. And so, uh, Courtney again, so glad that you could join today on the podcast.

Courtney Nazaire: 1:19

Yeah, thank you for having me, Dave. I feel like we are the best team.

Dave Hess: 1:23

Well, we definitely have a lot of, uh, of, of love for our, our team. So I am truly grateful for the men and women that God has brought together here locally. And just, uh, yeah, just a blessing. So I feel like some of the best friendships in life come out of the context of not only Christian community, but of doing mission together and so grateful that we have the opportunity to do that.

Courtney Nazaire: 1:44

Yeah, absolutely.

Dave Hess: 1:46

Well court, Hey, if you could, I know we're going to be talking here just specifically about, uh, just connecting with people. And I find that that's such a key skill and a habit in life in general, and especially in ministry, to be able to really connect with people, just speak their language to, to, to not just spend time or, or kind of talk at people, but to really, uh, really. You know, cross that bridge of communication, you know, connecting truth and God's heart with people's hearts, you know, God's truth with people's minds. And really, again, just, you know, that, that word of connection I think is what I think of it as is like, it's just, it's just, it's not just throwing something out there and hoping that, Hey, maybe somebody will. We'll pick this up, but really, you know, them taking it to heart, you know? And, uh, so I think you're just so great at that excited for you to share some of your experience, some of your heart for that. I think it'll be inspiring as well as just practically informative for the listener. But Courtney, if you don't mind, just tell us a little bit about your background and just, you know, even as it pertains to coming to faith in Jesus and just, you know, starting in, in college and just connecting, um, you know, a little bit of your story, even as a background about yourself,

Courtney Nazaire: 3:05

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thank you for the nice intro. I appreciate it. Um, and praise God that I've gotten to this place. So a little bit about my background is that I did grow up in a Christian household and so grateful for that looking back. Um, I. Just was raised in a home where God has always talked about, you know, understanding Jesus's love for me. And I, as I grew up though, I recognize that I didn't really understand what Lordship meant. You know, I didn't really understand. Yeah. I didn't understand what it really meant to surrender everything to Christ. And that caused me to kind of have a little bit of. I would say not necessarily hostility, but disinterest in the faith as I grew up, um, definitely going through the motions. I would go to church because I had to, not necessarily, because I wanted to, I mean, I remember even trying to fake sick to not go to church on Sunday sometimes. And, um, yeah, I just kind of grew further and further away and was living for myself. Just living very selfishly. And by the time I got to college, I didn't really desire a relationship with God because I basically made up a lie in my own head that he was just for some people and not for me, you know, I didn't hear from him. I didn't experience things that other people were experiencing when they were in church in worship. So at the time I got to college, I was away from home. And I didn't really have to go to church, but a campus minister at the time who was just starting ministry, I believe at temple and at Drexel reached out to me and got connected with her. And man definitely experienced the two feelings. One I haven't been living for the Lord all these years. I don't know what that even looks like, but also an intrigue. Um, she had invited me to. Every nation campus at the time, which was very small, but it was filled with people who genuinely worshiped the Lord. And I had, that was the first time I really experienced that. And I was living that double life and I had to choose which way I was going to live. Am I going to live the ways of the world, or am I going to choose Jesus? That seems to be giving people eternal satisfaction. And so I've made that decision my freshman year. And man, God just began to change my heart. Just the way I saw people that just set free from a lot of darkness. And I really began to be excited about leading people to Christ and leading my own Bible study. So it's funny that I started college, not really desiring that relationship with guide and graduated, want to tell everybody about him. So that's a little bit about me.

Dave Hess: 6:00

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. Core. Just even knowing you some during kind of the latter, half of your, your, your, uh, student experience, shall we say, it's just, it's just pretty cool. Just to have been able to watch your development and your growth as a, you know, a young woman who is pursuing Christ and, uh, in particular, as you said, cause you talked there about. Really trying to share your faith. And, and so you covered a lot of ground there from just like a, Hey kind of a domino Christian and, you know, grow it up this way to then really coming to a place in college. Yeah. I'm really ready to follow Jesus, like for real myself. And then even beyond that too, Hey, I want to share my faith with others and yeah. Uh, you know, you you're you're, I would say you're Courtney, correct me if I'm wrong, but you know, you tend to be someone who isn't. naturally extroverted isn't naturally like, Hey, I'm just going to talk to everybody. And so, but yet you've got this, this desire to tell people about Jesus. Could you just talk briefly about that? Because I think sometimes when people hear others talk about, Oh, you got to share your faith, they think, well, yeah, maybe the person that likes talking to people all the time that they can do that. Hey, I'll just, I'll kind of find a different lane, but really? Yeah. You know, for you, someone that I would think maybe is a little bit, perhaps less natural at that, you know, yet this is still a heart that God has given you. So could you just comment on that? How, how has that been for you for someone being maybe a little bit more introvert than extrovert actually growing in this, this habit of sharing Jesus with other people

Courtney Nazaire: 7:41

Yeah, no, that's a great question. I'm not extroverted. I definitely am more introverted. I live on my own and I like that, but I do love people. I have a heart for people. I just know that. How much God transformed my own life. And I just really had to think that, man, if I really love people, I can't keep this to myself and I can't use my personality as an excuse. To not share Christ with other people. And so, yeah, it was a little bit more work for me personally, because I'm not naturally someone who just goes out and talks to people. But one thing that I remember I started doing specifically at church is that I joined a volunteer team. So at least at church. That's a safe place to kind of go and talk to people and it's not weird. So, um, so I've made a commitment that every time I served at that time was once a month, I was going to talk to somebody new. And so I began that habit. And then I was like, you know what, even when I'm not serving, I'm just going to meet someone new every Sunday. And then that translated even to being on campus and classmates of, you know what, Lord just gives me a heart for people. Yeah, I totally believe that God gives us so much grace and so much power to push past that fear. And I just had to do it now. I know that if I felt an inclination to talk to someone and if I just got in my head too much, I wasn't going to do it. But, um, I just had to be sensitive to the Holy spirit and just trust that the words that are going to come out of my mouth, the Holy spirit is going to give me, so I definitely had to be a little bit more than say impulsive so that I wouldn't psych myself out, but really comes down to just having a heart for people and having a deep compassion to share Christ with them. And that motivated me enough to push past that fear.

Dave Hess: 9:40

that's fantastic. Yeah, Courtney that's, that's a really interesting thing. It sounds like you've been just very intentional, even as a student. That you, you knew this was something that you wanted to grow in. And so you found perhaps more of a safe space of like saying, Hey, I'm at church. I'm just going to force myself to talk to you a, a stranger they're folly. If they don't want to talk to me, it might be a little more of a soft. A let down versus like, Hey, I'm out on campus and you could get shut down a little bit harder, but I love that of just how you were so intentional to say, all right. I, I know maybe I'm a little bit shy. I want to get more confident. I want to get more comfortable talking with, with people, And so you just. Had a plan and you set a goal of I'm going to do this every week. So that is that's so practical. I love that. What gave you that idea that did that? Did somebody suggest that to you? Or where did this come from?

Courtney Nazaire: 10:34

No, I actually, it was just something that I was praying about because as believers, we're called to share our faith with, you know, to make disciples of all nations. And so I knew that I wanted to join a team at church that would. Helped me, at least in that step of just talking to strangers, you know, meeting that practical need. And then from that, when I started to serve and become comfortable, every time I serve talking to new people, then I was like, wait, why am I just limiting it to once a month? I can do this every Sunday. And you know, again, being on campus too, that translated to just being more comfortable doing that.

Dave Hess: 11:12

Yeah, that's great. I love that. Well, Courtney, we've talked a little bit here about some of the habits that early on, and even at, during your college student experience that you began to develop to get more confident in that, where did that heart come from? Like at what point did you start to really get this sense of concern? For people that don't know Jesus. Cause you talked about that a moment ago of just having a heart of, of wanting people to know Christ. At what point did that heart for people that don't yet know, Jesus really begin to develop inside of you. And how did that happen?

Courtney Nazaire: 11:45

Yeah, I would say practically, my sophomore year there was a missions trip, um, to Philadelphia. And so they had came from North Carolina from our church there. Okay. So shout out to Kings park. And so we had some campus ministers and some students who came up from there and they were just evangelizing on both temple and Drexel's campus. I was at temple at the time and I just knew that I wanted to be like that. You know, I wanted to be bold and even just recognize the power of the gospel. I really had to be a little bit introspective and say like, wow, like. The power of the gospel was enough to transform my own life. And there's so many people on this campus that are so lost and so far from God. And I know what that feels like. You know, I know what it feels like to just be walking in loneliness and struggling and sin and just feeling like this is it. You know, this is how life is always going to be. And so I just remember when. They had co came to Philly on that missions trip. And that really ignited really a passion for missions. And knowing that, you know, I didn't have to do it alone too, that I could be trained in it. I could go out with someone, but as we began to talk to people, I just feel like God just began to soften my heart for the lost. So it definitely. Took a little bit of time, but definitely I think it was my spring semester of my sophomore year. Something just clicked. I remember walking on campus, walking to class and I'm like, yeah, I need to share the gospel with people, you know? Yeah.

Dave Hess: 13:32

That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, Courtney. Yeah, I remember that. In fact, I think that all happened within a couple of weeks of actually when my family and I moved from Florida to Philadelphia, we were trying to, arrive in time for that mission trip to be present for it. And so, yeah, it was, uh, it was an exciting time. It was a, it was a whirlwind for me personally, but just to be here for that. Just like you said, just joining with these friends from North Carolina that came to help share the gospel really was awesome.

Courtney Nazaire: 14:04

Great.

Dave Hess: 14:05

Well court, Hey, um, just to change gears a little bit, as you've developed, as you've grown over the years, it seems to me, and I said this a few minutes ago during the intro, but it seems to me that you just have a really extraordinary ability to connect with people. And so far beyond even just getting over the hump of talking to people in the lobby at a church service, and if sparking up a conversation that. You just have an ability, I think, to, to connect with people's hearts and just, they sense kind of a genuine love and a care and a concern from you, a compassion and kindness. Um, does that something that, that you've. Seem to be the case your whole life is that, is that something that you would say is, is something that's more manifested itself as you have really endeavored to go and help other people grow in their faith. Tell us a little bit about, about this and, and just speak to that, you know, where did that come from?

Courtney Nazaire: 15:06

Yeah. Yeah. Again, thank you for the kind words. I hope people do feel that way. I interact with them, but yeah, I mean, I remember when I was younger, I was the person that would talk to the outcast, you know, the ones that people would make fun of or just didn't like, I was that person who would be friends, those people. And yeah, I think for me, even as I've grown. In my relationship with the Lord as a student now as a campus minister, I think of just how God makes us feel like the only one, you know? And so for me, I love to create that type of atmosphere for others that I need. So there's such a power of the one-on-one for me, because I love to make people feel heard. I love to make people feel understood. So if that was written on my tombstone, but I made people feel understood. I'm grateful. Like I I've done my work. Um, yeah. I just know what it's like to feel like your voice has kind of stifled and to feel. Just, you know, emotional and not knowing how to express that. And you have all these thoughts and maybe, maybe your past experiences, maybe your upbringing, you felt like you didn't have a voice. And so I love to just intentionally listen to people and say, this is your chance to be heard. And your voice matters. Yeah, because I know that that's the type of care that God gives to all of his kids. And so I definitely want to be able to create that space for other people to feel heard. And out of that really is what brings that sense of relational connection. Um, because people feel listened to and feel heard and not talked at, you know, sometimes when I meet with people. I barely say anything, you know, they're just talking. And I think for me, I've had to learn discernment in terms of. Okay. Is this a meeting where I just need to listen and let them get out what they need to get out. And then at the end, all right, let's assess what's going on. That's bringing you back to the truth cause we kind of, you know, want a little off, um, or is this a time where I am counseling and I need to give a little bit, bit more advice. Let's go back to what, um, the scripture say. So, yeah, I just I'm grateful for people allowing me to be vulnerable. So now I'm able to create that space of vulnerability for others.

Dave Hess: 17:46

yeah, yeah. That's fantastic. Yeah. Courtney just even comes to mind some of the statistics and things that I've read, uh, just recently in over the years, about how, uh, just through kind of excessive use of technology and things like that, how. Just as a society, we're almost becoming less and less. Empathetic more and more just, just kind of hardened in certain ways. And, and so I think just what you're saying, what I hear you saying is just the power of listening, that, that, yes, it's important to initiate, uh, to, to see the unseen, to, to find the person that maybe a standing by themselves just to, to help them feel heard, help them feel known that that ended up itself is powerful, which I would certainly agree. And also though, to, to listen, you know, that it's kind of this balancing act almost of initiating conversation, but then of appropriate kind of, if you think you use the word discernment or you're, you're trying to discern at what point do you need to be more just listening and at what point do you need to actually. Really speaks something that they need to hear. So how has that been for you? How tell, tell us a little bit more about how you have intentionally just tried to become a more discerning person in those moments.

Courtney Nazaire: 19:08

Yeah, I think definitely for me, if I know I'm meeting with a student, I definitely pray beforehand. Okay. So just ask the Lord, what specifically would you like me to do? Um, if sometimes I'll know beforehand what we're talking about. And so then I'll know if it's gonna be more of a conversation or if it's going to be more of, they just need instruction or they need to vent a little bit. So usually when I, um, am meeting with this student, I know for the most part beforehand, what we're going to be talking about. But, you know, there are times, and I think this comes from again, the power of that one-on-one and creating that relational connection with people where people will ask to talk to me, you know, they'll reach out or they're calling me. And, um, those are more on the fly. So I don't know what they're going to talk about. And usually it's during the meeting where I, again, I'm intentionally listening. And, um, I know even for example, a student was over my house maybe a few weeks ago. And I just felt the Holy spirit say, just listen, just listen. So that's just what I did. I just listen and allowed them to really formulate their thoughts in that they just needed to get it out. Um, so yeah, it just takes me really being sensitive to the Holy spirit. But also if I've already have established relationship with that student, usually I already know what we're talking about. So, um, and then prepare out of that.

Dave Hess: 20:42

Yeah, that's great. Well, just back to the topic of technology for a moment. we literally living in a hyper distracted age, everybody's got a smartphone, you know, people have watches giving them notification notifications. It's just like, wow. You know, just constant disruption, constant, interruption. how do you think about that? You know, what kind of things are you doing or not doing with your phone when you're really trying to engage someone in a one-on-one setting?

Courtney Nazaire: 21:16

Okay. Yes, definitely. This is very important because I think it's, we just need to be intentional in those moments. So for me, when we were actually in person, I actually bought a watch, not like an Apple watch. That's going to give you notifications, but just a normal watch because sometimes I would have meetings back to back and I needed to keep. Time, but I didn't want to check my phone because then one it's distracting. Like I could look at my phone and see all these notifications. And then what does that say to the person I'm meeting with as well? You know, it just communicates certain things. And so I decided to stop using my phone to check the time and that's why I bought a watch so that if I. You know, needed to wrap it up a little bit and then I can do that. And I'm very intentional and focused on that person that I'm meeting with as opposed to checking my phone. And then now I have other things going in my mind because I checked my phone with all these notifications. So that's something that I've stopped doing. And then now that we're kind of in the age of COVID and this pandemic. Again, I will turn off. Usually I'll FaceTime students either on my phone, usually on my iPad. I'll turn off. I'll try and turn off those notifications if I remember so that I'm not distracted and looking at the notifications as well, because you know, I want people again, to be, to know that I'm listening, I'm focused on you. This is your time.

Dave Hess: 22:47

Yeah. Yeah. That's really smart. Courtney. Actually, I had not even thought of that, of just turning off notifications when you're in a virtual meeting, to be able to focus that much more. I can think of so many times that I've been talking with someone, but in a meeting focused listening. Yeah. But then I'll have some text message notification, just pop up on my screen. And then just like you said, my head is in another space. I'm thinking, wait, maybe I should just respond to this real quick, or I'm trying to think about the answer to the question that I'm being asked, but you're right. You know, that disruption of focus, I think that's definitely felt in the context of. A relationship in the context of communication where, you know, you, you can feel, you can sense what a person is kind of checking out or disengaging. And so though I know we don't intend to be disrespectful when we're doing kind of things. It, you know, it, it almost can at the subtle level, it can almost convey that a little bit, especially when it's, this is a one-on-one type meeting that you're talking about with the student. This isn't just like you got your video turned off and you're just kinda. in, on the, on some webinars, something like that. So, yeah, that's really helpful. Courtney, are there any other sort of things that you've seen translate to the current era of kind of online ministry and you know, the COVID world that we're living in right now here? End of 20, 20, any other application points along these lines to this current reality?

Courtney Nazaire: 24:12

Yeah. I mean, it, I feel like I'm figuring it out, like everybody else's. Um, but I will say that. I find that this time has made me a little bit more disciplined. I would say an organized and, and I don't know why it's, I don't know if I felt like in person I'm just running around and trying to keep up with everyone. But I think now that we are virtual, I've been more intentional. And so scheduling, um, I don't schedule as. Many meetings, I would say, especially virtually it's just zoom. Fatigue is real. So I think that's something that I've had to alternate. So sometimes I will meet with the suit on zoom or maybe we'll have a phone call instead. So we're not both staring at a screen because. I know that students are tired. They're already doing that for their classes. So sometimes I'll just talk to somebody on the phone, or if I know that I was supposed to FaceTime with the student, but maybe I've double booked or I've scheduled too many meetings, I've been staring at a screen. I'll go out and take a walk and talk to them on the phone so that, all right, I'm outside. I have different surroundings and I can still be focused as opposed to. Being on another, you know, FaceTime zoom when I'm just like in and out, might not even be listening to what they're saying.

Dave Hess: 25:41

Yeah. That's so good. Yeah. I, I think I I've developed a fresh appreciation for the simple phone call and phone conversation in the midst of this, you know, kind of zoom saturation that we're living currently through. Well, that's good, Courtney. You speak about organization. What other things have helped you to stay organized? Even as I know, just firsthand that you're connecting with a lot of different people you're overseeing and covering student leaders and you're connecting with new people. And just again, you're just. A great connector. Any other tips for staying organized? Cause it certainly seems like you've got these different pieces coming together. You've got definitely the motivation of, Hey, I want to help connect people. You've got the heart there. Uh, but also the practical skills of how you're doing that, how you're really focusing in the moment. Right. But there's this other piece of organization is just as you connect on a ongoing basis with multiple different people, just, just staying organized in that seems like it could be a real challenge. So what things have you found helpful in staying organized?

Courtney Nazaire: 26:45

Yes. So just as you said, I do connect with a lot of students and I'm like, Oh Lord, help me because I need to know where everyone is at. And so something that I started to do. I would say spring, spring summer is that I started to document my meetings with students. So I would meet with the student one-on-one this is what we talked about. So that was a great touch point for our next meeting. So I know what we talked about and I can there's that sense of accountability in that as well as like, Hey, we talked about this, how are you doing in this area? And so that's something I started to do. And especially with, I would say student leaders, you know, that's a priority, they are my priority and want to make sure that they're healthy and I want to touch base with them in a healthy rhythm. So it's something that I like to do is like, I need to have at least two touch points with them a month. Um, but more so. I would say in terms of that, at least like we're talking like a FaceTime or if they're around campus and meet with them, however, that's not the only time they hear from me, you know, I'll send an encouraging text. Um, Hey, how are you doing kind of things, just so that they're regularly. Talking to me and vice versa. So I start to started to do that. That really helped me to be like, Oh, I'm actually on top of this. I know where everyone is at. You know, like, why didn't I do this before, when we were in person. And another thing that I started to do is actually have the leaders meet together. That was really awesome for them too. I did that starting biweekly in the spring. When things shut down, having them meet with each other helped to keep them accountable. I know where they're at too. And they're connecting, not just with me. That that was awesome too, because I know early in ministry, I felt like everybody was connected to me and not necessarily each other. And so I wanted to create that sense of community as well. Um, amongst the student leaders. So doing that actually helped to free up some time to meet with new students because, um, I know where the student leaders are at they're moving along, helping them to reach to new students as well. But if I wanted to, I can meet with new students and have, um, just continue to facilitate new connections as well.

Dave Hess: 29:21

Hm. Yeah. So just having, uh, an intentional rhythm of ongoing connection, both individually, as well as in. In, you know, an ongoing kind of group setting of kind of group discipleship as well as individual discipleship. Yeah. Uh, that's, that's great. Courtney and I know different organizations or different groups even have sort of different rhythms and different structures of how they do this. But, uh, one thing that caught my attention. It was just, you talk about documenting after you meet with someone, what does that mean? Are you, do you have a notebook or do you have it, is this just, how are you doing that? That whole, I mean, documentation, it actually sounds kind of official, like, but just to be more specific, what does that mean? Like what, what are you writing down and, and where do you keep that? And just, how are you referring to it on and on going basis?

Courtney Nazaire: 30:10

Yeah, just a simple Google sheet. You know, I put all of the student leaders on there and document like the time or the dates specifically when I met with them. And, um, did we, like, how are they doing spiritually? All the students know that that's what I'm going to ask you at our meeting. How are you doing spiritually? Are you spending time with the Lord questions like that? What are the areas of growth that you would you want to work on and what are the next steps to get there? So those are usually the four questions. And of course, you know, if there's other things that come up, we talk about that. Like, how are friendships going? How's family going? You know, other things will be stirred. In that conversation, but those four usually are asked every single time. And that's what I usually document.

Dave Hess: 31:05

Yeah. Yeah, that's great. I think just, just that level of specificity, that level of, of really just organization, it seems like it's just super helpful. And so, yeah. That's, that's awesome. Thanks for sharing some of those details. Well, Courtney, I know that as you pour out in this way, as you're connecting with people, you're, you're listening intently, you're focused as much as that can be so rewarding and is just so powerful. I know that that can also be. Draining that can also lead to some fatigue. What are some of the things that you do to refill your tank mentally, emotionally, and spiritually after investing yourself in this kind of way on a consistent basis?

Courtney Nazaire: 31:51

Yeah. Great question. And so important. Yeah. I had to learn to really be filled, you know, and to not run on empty because. That can lead to burnout, you know, can lead to fatigue and that there's nothing left for anybody. So that could easily come. So I know for me, especially early on in ministry, I always felt like I had to be on, you know, like I always had to do ministry and I always had to be available and that did lead to some fatigue and I had to realize the weight. You know what Jesus didn't heal. Everyone. Jesus didn't preach to everyone. He had boundaries. He drew away to the father, you know, he spent time with his inner circle and I had to recognize that there's only so much I can do. You know, like I have a capacity and I need to take care of myself. And so I realized, Oh, God cares about they have rest taking a day off, having fun. So I think for me little things like being able to spend time with friends and to be able to receive mentorship myself because. Yeah, as I am covering other people, it's important for me to be under covering myself. So that's been such a tremendous help. I would say, just being able to be poured into, and then practically, honestly, just spending time with the Lord. It's so easy to do ministry. And to forget that aspect of, you know, as you're telling people to spend time with the Lord, you need to be spending time with the Lord yourself. And so I love to just take, yeah, every morning. I just take that time to be in my word, to pray, ask the Lord to give me my daily bread, you know, to fill my tank and bringing my worries, my concerns to him, um, being in worship. And, um, again, just being able to have fun as well, take walks, hang out, um, do other hobbies as well. It's just, it's important.

Dave Hess: 33:56

yeah, that's fantastic. Well, Courtney, I think this is all just been so helpful, you know, in a hyper distracted world. I think even in the midst of, of just our current reality of just being, shall we say socially distanced or at least physically distanced. I think that there just a greater, I think, appreciation for intentional, genuine. Kind of, uh, a focused relational connection at so many levels, whether it's just a, a friendship, but in general, or certainly in the context of ministry. And just how, uh, and there's just something about that, of just the, the humanity of, of an individual kind of giving attention, listening to another person and just really how the Lord can even. Move so powerfully in the context of that type of conversation and that type of a relationship. So I think these are some really helpful insights and things that you shared today, and certainly a point of strength for you court. As we wrap up today, thinking back to your early college experience, uh, as a, as an 18 year old as a 19 year old, looking back, uh, just thinking about where you were at that time. If you could give yourself one piece of advice, what advice would you give to the 18 year old version of you?

Courtney Nazaire: 35:12

Hmm, that is a good question. Yeah, I honestly would say it is a worth it to surrender everything to Christ. Um, you'll actually have more fun as a believer than. Um, not being one. So I would say that that you're in for a wild ride.

Dave Hess: 35:36

good. Well, Courtney, it's just been a joy to have this conversation with you today. So thanks so much for taking time for it.

Courtney Nazaire: 35:43

Yeah. Thank you so much, Dave. I had fun.