How God Can Redeem Unimaginable Tragedy, Experiencing Refreshing from the Lord, and Extending Yourself for the Gospel with Heather Heck

In this episode, Every Nation Campus missionary Heather Heck  shares how God met her in the midst of tragedy and brokenness as a young adult and and led her into a life marked by grace as a follower of Jesus Christ. 

She also talks about why and how she's relocated multiple times over the past few years to extend the Gospel to college and university students. Heather gives a challenge to joyfully sacrifice and move (in some cases geographically) outside your comfort zone for the sake of the cause of Christ.

Transcript

David: 0:36

welcome to the college faith and leadership podcast. So good to have you on today.

Heather Heck: 0:42

Thanks for having me, Dave.

David: 0:44

Heather, it has been so fun to get to know you over the past several years, but even before that, knowing you by reputation, uh, to give a word of introduction to the audience about you, Heather, you have been in campus ministry for a number of years now. You really were reached for Christ in the Tennessee area in Nashville, Tennessee. And you've been. Located in a few different spots since starting your journey in campus ministry. I know we're going to talk a little bit about really being extended for the mission and, and going and pioneering and building. And so you've, you've actually moved to several different states most recently to Denver, Colorado, where you're helping with an every nation church plants and doing campus ministry there in that city. And so it's really just a joy to talk with you today.

Heather Heck: 1:30

yeah, I'm excited to be here. Uh, I feel like maybe I don't belong here, you know, but that kind of sums up my whole campus ministry career. So it's only fitting, I guess,

David: 1:41

Oh, yeah. Well, Heather, yeah, you you've been a tremendous encouragement to me. I know in particular, you and I got to spend a good amount of time together on an every nation short-term mission trip to Columbia a couple of years ago before you, uh, you moved initially away from Tennessee after doing campus ministry there, but I just, I just love the way that you lean in into the mission, the way you. Sacrifice the way you just give of your heart. And I know it's all the grace of God, but I just got to say that it's been an encouragement to know you. And so I know you really have some valuable things to share on the podcast. So again, thank you for joining us, if you would, I'd rather have you share your story than me share your story. Would you mind just sharing a little bit about your journey to faith and your background?

Heather Heck: 2:28

Sure. Sure. I, um, I always, I always joke. I feel like I'm probably one of the most unlikely leaders. I think that when you look at our campus ministry world, I don't think anybody would pick me out of a lineup and say, oh, she does college ministry. Um, because something about that just doesn't fit. And, uh, I think it, it really kind of goes back to. My story. I, uh, I grew up as a good church kid. I went to a historically black university, Tennessee state university in Nashville, Tennessee. This is your, your shout out moment, TSU, um, really grew up a church kid and then went to college and it was, it was there within the first week. Really started making decisions and choices to walk away from God. And it didn't happen overnight. It was just little by little. Before I knew it. I found myself doing things. I never thought I would do go and places I never thought I would be. And that really just led to, uh, a lot of years living in darkness a lot of years running from God. Um, by the time I was 21 years old, I was a drug addict and alcoholic. And then really the turning point for me, uh, was in 2007. I was in a drinking and driving accident that killed an elderly couple. And on the side of the road that night, I had my first sincere prayer in 10 years. And, uh, that was really the turning point in what has been just an incredible journey of, of faith and redemption. Um, you know, if you would have told me on the side of the road that night, That not only could God save me, but he actually wanted to rewrite my story. I wouldn't have believed you, but, you know, from that, that point, really getting involved in the life of the church and had women, people around me who were discipling me, helping me grow. And I sort of wandered into campus ministry sort of in the back door I snuck in when no one was looking. I, um, spent about a year, uh, in Parsa rated for my crime. And it was really there while I was in prison that got birth ministry in me, which again, the most unlikely place, but a little by little while I was there, God began to break my heart for the broken women around me had never led a Bible study, had never shared my faith. Um, I really knew nothing. I mean, I joke and say I was barely saved, but my every nation church sent me 15 purple books and I started a Bible study there, uh, in the most unlikely of places with the most unlikely leader. And, and guess what the power of God failed. Women their lives begin to get transformed. The atmosphere in that place changed. And I knew in that moment I would do this for the rest of my life. And, uh, didn't want to do college ministry, ran from it from a lot of years. I mean, in, in my mind, you know, I was. Middle-aged single mom convicted felon. And yet God kept nudging me and pulling me to go back to my own mater as a campus ministry at a historically black university. So, you know, nothing about that made sense, which is how you know, it's God. And it's been nine years now, nine years in campus ministry. It's been an exciting journey. Uh, there's not been a dull moment. My son's been brought up in this ministry and it's taken us a lot of places and we've just seen the power of God move. Uh, in a generation of that, I think is really hungry.

David: 5:49

Yeah, definitely. So well, yeah, Heather, that, that story is just deeply moving for a lot of reasons. Just the. The brokenness that you were experiencing in your life and this just incredibly tragic situation. Um, but it's just so encouraging to hear how God met you in that place of tragedy and that place of brokenness, and really just began to turn your life around. And just, even as you responded to Jesus and receive God's grace and your own life, how. Really you were able to minister to other women and that prison and, and taking them through this foundational Bible study that we have what we call the purple book, but just a, a great foundational Bible study and walking through a lot of the core teachings of the Christian faith. And so, uh, really just impactful. Um, Heather, if you, if you could just, uh, maybe talk a little bit about that coming from that background, even your college years, it sounds like really being significant and, and taking you down a pretty dark path. Uh, how does that now affect your perspective when you're ministering to students?

Heather Heck: 6:58

Yeah. I, I think for me, there's a quote that I love. I don't know if you are familiar with cords and Boone, but I love this quote. There's no pit too deep where God's love is deeper still. And I think. There are few of us who know the depths of how deep that pit can go and the type of brokenness and darkness. Uh, that's that's out there. And I think for me, it reminds me of two things. There's there's nowhere that God won't go and it, it, it helps motivate me to. I have to love people the way he loves people. And I want to pursue people the way he pursues people. And there's just something that has just kind of become resolved within me. I'm not going to give up, I'm not going to give up on people because God didn't give up on me. And I think that, you know, just the reality is, you know, here I was campus ministry, there's a statistic. And Dave, you know, it. 70% of kids who grow up in church who attend church regularly will not attend church in college. And I think over the last year that that statistic is probably even increased we've, we've come out of a year with a lot of political turmoil and racial tension and isolation with COVID and there's sort of this mass Exodus of young people leaving the church and the, and the thing that's in it just kind of resounds in the back of my mind, who will I send? Who will go for me? You know, God is actively pursuing people who are not pursuing him no matter how hopeless it looks, no matter how broken it may seem. And he's just looking for people who will be available to them.

David: 8:39

yeah, yeah. Definitely. Yeah, it's certainly been a challenging year. Um, but other, uh, I concur and I'm, I'm encouraged actually. And excited. I think that we're. Getting ready for something that there's good. There's a fresh opportunity. Not that there haven't been opportunities, obviously to reach people with the gospel for this past year there have, but I think people are feeling a lack of something. People are filling that void more than before. Perhaps that there's a, there's something there that I believe. Uh, ultimately there's a need for God, but we're going to be able to step into that. Um, Heather it's to slightly change gears a little bit though. I know you've made several moves. You've mentioned ministering at Tennessee state university, your Alma mater, which I think that again, putting myself in your shoes, that has to be pretty cool. You're going back there and you've had, you've had this just wild twist and turn of events and God meeting you. Um, w w before we talk about your moves, actually, I'd love to hear. How, how students responded when you would share your story with them. And Hey, I used to be a student here and you know that you start sharing a little bit about some of the different circumstances of your life since graduation. What kind of responses would people give you and how did that help open the door for ministry?

Heather Heck: 9:55

You know, I think it's, it's funny. I kind of joked about how I, I didn't necessarily fit the mold of campus ministry. Well, I sure didn't fit the mold at a, at a historically black university. I know for your podcast listeners. Yeah. I'm a white woman from the country with, uh, with quite a story. And so something about that, you know, it's, it's interesting. Cause it would be the thing that you would think would disqualify me was the very thing that God used. To create a platform. And so the fact that I stood out the fact that I was this middle-aged white woman chasing college students around a campus. I mean, it almost became an evangelism tool and, uh, in a lot of ways, what I, what I found, um, maybe we have a whole generation, I think that searching for. They're searching for, you know, obviously for hope they're searching for purpose, they're searching for identity, but there's, there's been a disconnect and a lot of families, there's a lack of spiritual fathers. There's a lack of spiritual mothers. And you know, it, it was interesting because what I found was really walking in that maternal role that I, it was a niche that God had kind of created for me. And, um, you know, most of my students, even now my, that have graduated and gone on, I mean, I'm still white mom. To hundreds of students. And I own that and I, I own it and I consider it the highest, you know, if you could give me a hundred awards, but the, the best award was to be called someone's mom. And, um, And so for me, I think that, you know, hearing my story, it shocked a lot of people because the thing is, you know, I don't look like where I've been and it doesn't necessarily make sense, but it also, there's this kind of challenge. When you hear my story, it's like, wow. If, if God can change her life, He can change mine. Like it kind of removes the excuses, so to say, and, uh, and it's, it was really an incredible journey. I loved my time at TSU. I, I still have lots of kids who are now, you know, husbands and wives and parents themselves. And so when they would have an incredible,

David: 12:03

Yeah, Heather, I, I, I got to see just a little bit of that relationship when we were on this mission trip a few years ago. And you were, you're not where they're leading groups of college students from our respective campuses and just seeing the way that you related. With the students that you had there, uh, it was very familial. It wasn't. And so just for the audience to be clear, it wasn't like you were there kind of forcing some, like I'm the mom or something, but it was just as you love them as you serve them, that there was a, a familial love there that, that I think was wasn't as evident just between you and the students in your relationship. Um, and, and so I just got to see a little bit of that firsthand. It really was a special thing to witness.

Heather Heck: 12:45

Yeah. And you know, Dave, I mean, I love that the liberal God doesn't campus ministry, but I always feel like no matter where we are, what we do, God does more in us. And he ministers more to us. I mean, I received far more than I ever gave.

David: 13:01

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's fantastic. Well, Heather, since then, you've made a couple of big mus, could you just talk about that? What was it that led you to, to move you really had a thriving ministry there at Tennessee state university. Talk about those transitions.

Heather Heck: 13:19

Sure. Yeah. We, um, I had been at Tennessee state university for six years. Um, and yes, it became a thriving ministry, but honestly the first five years were really hard. Um, like, you know, it's, it's very hard to get things going and we spent about five years just plowing very hard ground and it, it felt odd because something kind of broke. And switched within the last year, like we were experiencing, we were in the midst of this huge revival. All of a sudden I had kind of found a flow. Like I, I kind of knew who I was as a, as a minister, there was a rhythm. Um, we had this incredible team of student leaders. I mean, they were strong campus ministers on the outside. We had sort of reached the quote unquote pinnacle of what. You know, what you dream of, what you pray for, what you hope for, um, and campus ministry. And, and I would go home at night and I would lie on the bed and stare at the ceiling because there was something just stirring on the inside of me. It was just this restlessness. And, you know, for the longest time I could pinpoint it. Like, this is everything we prayed for. Why, why, why am I feeling this way? Why is there a wrestle wiser this tension? And it was really that mission trip to Columbia, Dave, where you and I were there, that God began to expand my vision. You know, um, it was just because something is comfortable and convenient doesn't necessarily mean it's the will of God. And I think that God specializes in stretching us outside of our comfort zone. Um, Because we become, we were so desperate for him when it's outside. When, you know, I mean, it's always outside of our own capability, but you know, he likes to stretch us so far beyond ourselves that it's only God that you, you can't deny it. Like only God, you can do this. And it was really there in Columbia, um, that I just really felt confirmation in my spirit. God is he's calling me to go. We there's, it's amazing what God was doing at TSU, but there was. Hundreds of thousands of college students across the nation who didn't know him, who didn't have campus ministers, who did not have campus ministry chapters at all. Um, many groups, many people groups who've never even heard the gospel. And it was the kind of thing that kept me up at night. And I begin praying and just asking God, you know, what's next. And then he opened the door for us to move out to Honolulu, Hawaii. Which was a night and day difference is where I'd been.

David: 15:52

Yeah, much, much different. Yeah. I imagine that was a pretty big jump. Now that the person listening, I know probably all of us in north America, we hear Hawaii and it just sounds like all we know of Hawaii is the postcard, but I know you were actually in a pretty challenging contexts there in Honolulu. How did you adapt and what was that like for you and your son also moving with you? Uh, how was that adjustment?

Heather Heck: 16:20

sure. It was. I have to be very honest. It was the hardest three years of my life. Hardest three years of I've ever had a ministry yet. We grew the most than we'd ever grown in ministry. And there's that tension, you know, all of us want to grow. None of us want, uh, what it takes to make that happen. And, you know, Hawaii, culturally, it's very different. It's, it's not quite what you think of, you know, when you go on vacation, I mean, I love the vacation aspect to it, the postcard, but the, the truth is we were serving a small, uh, Pretty similar to a church plant in the inner city, in Kalihi valley, um, and inner city, very different in that kind of context than what you would think of here on the mainland. But, uh, there's a lot of poverty. There was a lot of oppression. There was a lack of, um, Uh, really vision students. There was no vision for the future. They didn't dream. They didn't hope. And, and many of the students that we engaged had never even heard the gospel. And so we had this opportunity to, to share hope, to share vision, to share purpose, to share destiny. We ended up. Starting to campus ministry chapters and raising up local leaders, which was always the goal is to raise up local leaders, equip them and empower them. But I think the cool thing was, you know, before we left to Hawaii, the word that I got from the board was that this move is more about your son than it is about you. I don't know that I would've picked, if I could have picked that probably would have been in Tijuana somewhere. You guys said Hawaii, and I said, this is different. Um, but something that was really cool that happened there for us is it really calls her faith to grow in a unique way. Intimacy with Jesus grew in a, in a greater way, because we were, we were now at a place that we were thousands of miles away from our support system or a spiritual family or natural family. And, and it was just me and my kid. And, uh, so we grew closer, you know, with one another, which was huge. And. And then, you know, just doing cross-cultural missions in general. I think it's just such an amazing gift to give to your children. And I watched my son, he was 10 when we moved there. So I literally watched those, those kind of pre-teen years where he had to discover like who he is and what he's called to be. And he, he grew in confidence and faith and, and so it was, it was really an amazing seasoned

David: 18:42

yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. Uh, Heather, for, for that period, you said it was the hardest three years of your life. What do you think? What helps you? Were there any attitudes that you had or any PR, anything that was unexpected or expected that you felt really helped to keep you steady and on track with the Lord and with your ministry during that time?

Heather Heck: 19:04

Sure, you know, um, a day that I would love to tell you that I always approach everything with this, just big faith, but the truth is, you know, I've had some really raw moments with God because as many of us have, and so it comes with a lot of, uh, kind of waving my fist at the ceiling and flailing and, and, uh, you know, throughout all the flailing and whining and crying, which, um, uh, maybe that's just me. Maybe that's not, you.

David: 19:29

nah, I definitely have those moments too.

Heather Heck: 19:31

you know, in the midst of that, I think the thing that has really helped anchor me in out of every season is there's this, there's this tension that I carry with me always. And it's, it's the, it's the remembering who I was remembering all of the terrible things that I've done. I mean, the appalling things that I did, the, the, the level of darkness, um, that I lived in. It's just unimaginable and knowing what I deserve. And then yet on the flip side of that tension, there's this incredible grace that says, no, you're a daughter, there's an inheritance. And I think it's, it's living in the tension of both and it's and it's recognizing, listen, I came to Jesus with nothing. Everything that I have is a gift, everything. And who am I to complain? Who am I to flail? Who am I to shake my fist? When everything I have has been a gift. And I think that, you know, you can get unhealthy with either side of that. But I think if you can live there in the middle of that tension of, of knowing, this is what I deserve, but this is the grace that rescued me. It brings a level of faith and appreciation to every season that I think is needed to sustain you in that season.

David: 20:54

Yeah. Yeah. And that tension that you're talking about, you're talking about this tension between. Having a view of your sinfulness and really in view of the justice of the judgment and the justice of God, of what you deserve, feeling, the weight of that, but also the grace and the mercy of God. And, and just, and not, not forgetting, you know, what you deserve and just get entitled or something. But on the other hand, you know, not, uh, just living in constant shame and condemnation, is that the tension you're talking about.

Heather Heck: 21:27

It's and, and, you know, the thing is, it almost becomes sort of a swing that we swing back and forth and, and the truth is either side of that swing. If you stay there can be very unhealthy, but they're in the center, you know, that's the thing that anchors us. It's Jesus, it's the rock. It's the, it's the, it's where we find the identity and purpose and, and it's, it's intimacy with him that sort of anchors us there in the middle that keeps the right perspective. Right. And, you know, and he, he modeled a level of, of this kind of humility and obedience that I think that, that that's the goal. Right. You know, he stepped down and he didn't come to be served, but to serve. And it's it's who am I? Right. Who am I to withhold anything from him? Like who am I to, to, to not follow through with obedience? You know, just because it's, it's hard, you know, I think that, that in our Western kind of cultural context, I mean, what a silly thing to say, oh, life is hard. Yes. It's hard. But, but really, you know, like it's a gift and a, and Jesus is the anchor.

David: 22:34

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. It's, it's, it's funny when you really think about it, that we almost expect that life shouldn't be hard. Like, why, where does that come from? Why do we think it would be easy? Uh, I know that's something I, I wrestle with as well. Sometimes I'll catch myself in a, uh, a thought or an attitude, or even vocalizing some kind of a self pity, like, oh, this is it. And it's like, wait, what, what are you doing? This is, this is not what you're supposed to be camping out on at all. Um, But yeah, the humanity is there for sure. Well, Heather, I appreciate you sharing that and really both aspects of on the one hand, why you stepped out, why you moved and just said, Hey, I I've built something here that I've prayed for, but just the willingness to step into the unknown to, to extend yourself, uh, really. To reach those that haven't yet heard of Jesus to go to a new campus that didn't have any existing ministry presence. Um, but also just the honesty of, Hey, that it was extremely tough that this wasn't just like, Hey, some mountain, top to mountain top, I have kind of an experience. Uh, and I know speaking of stretching yourself and moving into new opportunities for the gospel, right. Just very recently. I think within the last few weeks, actually you relocated again to Denver, Colorado. Do you want to share a little bit about that move

Heather Heck: 23:59

yeah, I don't think that you could go to any further extreme from Honolulu, Hawaii to Denver, Colorado.

David: 24:06

yeah, definitely not geographically. Anyway. I mean, you know, ocean level, so you're like mile high city.

Heather Heck: 24:14

sure. Yeah. It really. Yeah. I know for many of us, you know, with COVID and lockdowns and everything online, um, we've all had a lot of time to reflect and, and just really seek God. And the thing that I think it was interesting, we had an interesting perspective to really watch what was happening here in the mainland. With, I mean, oh my gosh, everything that could happen did happen. And there was terminal and division in every way. And, um, and to really grieve over that, um, from a place of where maybe it's, it's, it's really not the same kind of tension. We, you know, the political tension, the racial tension, um, you know, it, it's not that those things don't happen in Honolulu, but it's really not the same culture. And so, you know, just really grieving over the. State of the nation grieving over, you know, what we were seeing in the next generation, just again, with this sort of mass Exodus that was happening and, and spent a lot of that season, just praying. And then yet believing you just preparing this for revival, God, like there's a revival that's about to hit our campuses. And again, I think it's the same call that has sort of been the theme in my life. Who, who. Who can go for me? You know, who, who can I call, who will go for me? And it was okay. God, I think for me, it was. I want to continue to help or ministry chapters, and I want to expand and I want to equip leaders. And, um, when you look at kind of the west coast, I mean, there's so much room for expansion. And so. Meeting the church planning team here and really hearing their vision in their heart for, you know, campus ministry and expansion. It made it an easy, an easy yes for us. And I think the thing that the older I get, the more I think about the scripture that says, you know, unless a seed falls to the ground and dies. It remains only a single seat, but if it will die that it multiplies and there's this sort of burden and desire to multiply it. We have to, we don't want to just kind of swoop in and create campus chapters, but are we equipping leaders? Are we multiplying? Are we preparing the next generation? To continue to carry this Baton. And so for me, that means we have to go. That means we're, we're going to expand. We're going to continue to preach the gospel. We're going to raise up leaders and, and, uh, and that was really kind of the heart behind the move to Denver.

David: 26:44

Yeah. Yeah. Heather, I love that. I know the ministry that you and I are both a part of every nation. We've got this motto. We say every nation in our generation that really, we want to take to heart Jesus' words of the great commission to go and make disciples of all nations. For us. That's not just something to. Kind of have within the pages of the Bible or to put up on a placard on the wall, but really that's, that's what it's about. Right. Uh, and I know that's the heart of many other amazing gospel centered campus ministries, but this idea of going and taking the name of Jesus to the ends of year of, of equipping young leaders, mobilizing them into the, um, the harvest fields into the great commission. That, uh, you know, that's, that's very motivating when you see the big picture that is not just about reaching a few students on one campus and kind of having a holy huddle, but it's really about deploying, reaching equipping and deploying leaders for the kingdom of God. And so I love your heart to do that and to really go to the, the edges of where it's uncomfortable or where it's not yet established. I think that's really awesome. Um, Uh, Heather, just for the young leader that's listening that maybe is even feeling a little bit challenged to say, Hey, I think maybe I've just, I've gotten a little too comfortable or maybe I, maybe I need to be stretched, you know? And that could mean a lot of different things. Maybe that's I need to go to a different area of campus that we haven't yet reached, or I need to go to the, the campus on the other side of the city. I mean, but, but maybe it is a bigger move. Uh, what has that process been like for you certainly sounds like. Prayer has been a very central part of your process in both of these transitions. Are there any more specifics that you could share for how you've really discerned those next steps as you had this heart and a desire to take the gospel further and a broader, uh, just if you would tease that out a little bit, what did that look

Heather Heck: 28:40

sure, sure. I, I just feel like? it's important to reiterate, you know, When you're starting to feel a stir and you feel restless and you, maybe you feel like you're too comfortable, that doesn't necessarily mean you sell everything you own and you move across the world. Um, because it could mean that God wants to stretch you into another area of ministry, another campus, it could mean, um, that you've just become too comfortable with your own skillsets and give, maybe it's just time to grow. And there's a lot of growth opportunities within local context. So let me just say that, um, I think that's why it's important to not just pray through these things, but it's really important to have wisdom of your leaders that are around you. The people that know you, um, and, and, and to really lean into your leadership. And, you know, for me, the move to Honolulu, I sat on that for over well over a year, um, and wrestled. yeah. I've wrestled with God. I've wrestled with leaders. And there was a place of confirmation. There was really a place of peace. It wasn't that I just said, oh, we're going to holiday. Then when we, and we just up and left, you know, I wanted to honor my local leaders. I wanted to, you know, how you. How you leave a place will determine how you begin the next every time. And so for me, I think that God has given us a lot of wisdom around us. I mean, I have spiritual mentors who, who know me well, they know my, they know my gifts and they know my weaknesses, you know, they know my tendency. And so sometimes maybe I just need to be talked off the ledge or sometimes I need to be challenged. And I think it's, it's having those people in your life are important. Um, having pastors and campus leaders that, that, that really know you, that are walking with you, that's important. Nobody goes alone. Right. Um, in fact, it's a really dangerous thing if you're, if you're finding yourself alone a lot and we, we, we need each other. And so that's just very, very important and yeah. Um, and I, and I think too, it's, you know, sometimes we stay because. Because it is comfortable. Right. And, uh, that doesn't necessarily mean that God doesn't, you know me, Hey, God still loves you. God also use you where you are. Um, But I think that it's, it's in a lot of ways, it can be sad. You're kind of shortchanging what God wants to do. Sometimes it's 99% of the time. It's not just about what God wants to do through you. It's about what God wants to do in you. And there's this kind of sanctification, he's cutting some stuff off he's pruning stuff. He's pruning away. Your self-sufficiency he's pruning away, you know, your pride and your, you know, whatever that may be for you. And you have to, there's no easy way. But through, and you have to allow God to do what he wants to do. You have to be willing to be led well by your leaders, listen to wisdom. Um, and before you kind of make that jumper decision,

David: 31:37

Yeah,

Heather Heck: 31:37

that's helpful.

David: 31:38

Yeah, that's really good. Heather, it's interesting. This theme of being really intentionally engaged in community, this has come up on a number of times and kind of recent interviews that I've done. I think most prominently of a interview that I did with. Uh, professor Michael Kruger, he was talking about different, uh, struggles that students have intellectually in regards to their faith. And I was actually kind of surprised to hear him say this seminary president, author of books, very intellectual guy that really hit his number. One encouragement to college students was to find. A community of believers, not memorize this list of facts or something. And I'm hearing something very similar from you directed at collegiate ministry leaders to say, Hey, don't get isolated. Don't don't just go off and make decisions. Even well-intended decisions, uh, you know, alone, but really to lean into that community of believers. And there's just a. You know, there's a safety there, there's a strength there. Uh, especially, you know, if these are the, these are leaders that you trust, you know, these are people that you've opened up your heart to before that why, when it comes to making a. Monumental decision. Would you pull back from that? That's the very time you need to lean in, not pull back. So I think that's really wise advice. Um, Heather, as we, as we wrap up today, I know that a lot of college students, as well as ministry leaders in particular. Are feeling pretty tired, pretty worn down after this past year. Um, I know you've really got a heart for, uh, for ministry leaders in that regard. Do you have any specific word of encouragement or perspective that you would like to share with them?

Heather Heck: 33:24

Sure I hear first off, I would just like to say that it's okay. I think that if we were all being honest, you know, no matter what level of leadership you're in, it's, it's been an exhausting year. Right. Um, and so I think allowing the holy spirit, allowing. You know God to minister to your own heart, to kind of, uh, bring kind of a revival to yourself. I mean, we'll, we're never going to see revival out there until we allow God to sort of revive us within right. It's revival starts with this and, and that's going to come with time of spending time with Jesus. Seeking his face. Um, but I think that, you know, on the, on the other end of that, we, we sort of, we've spent a year where many of us have been online. So it's been zoom. It's been, and I don't know about you, but Yeah, at some point when things began to open up, you know, I'm very evangelistically bent. I'm an extrovert. I found it hard to talk to people. I mean, it's almost like I forgot how, um, and then to, you know, my, my level of exhaustion would hit so much more quickly than it did prior to COVID. I mean, it could be out for an hour, like, oh, I'm exhausted. And I think that there's, there's kind of tension in both, you know, it's, it's God wants to restore your own soul and he wants to bring revival to us personally. But I think that there's also. You know, the Bible talks about fanning the flame, right? The gift of God. And that is something that we're called to do, you know, we, we have to fan the flame and remember, I think for me, it's, again, it's sort of like the same tension that we live in. You can't forget where you were, who you were, how you were when you met Jesus. The moment, you begin to forget that you're going to forget what you're doing and why you're doing it in the first place. And I think that there's this, this, this healthy, there's a healthy way to remember of Jesus rescued me. There's people out there who need rescuing. And that helps me to fan the flame. One of our professors, uh, preachers, teachers, pastors, Paul Barker. He used to tell us all the time you have to preach the gospel to yourself daily. And that seems so simple, but yet it is so true because I think that coming out of the season, that we're in, I believe in that God wants to restore the joy of your salvation. He wants to remind you because it's, it's out of that place that is going to continue to help you give you what you need to continue to press forward and to keep going.

David: 36:04

Heather. That's a great word of encouragement. I think a lot of people, myself included need to hear that. And Heather, I really appreciate your time today, sharing your story, sharing some challenges with us to, to believe bigger, to, to look more broadly and to just extend ourselves for the gospel and for students. And so, Heather, uh, again, thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate it.

Heather Heck: 36:27

thanks, Dave. Love you guys.