Ever wondered how mindfulness could give your business the edge? Join us as we delve into the world of mindful leadership with Eric Holsapple, an extraordinarily successful real estate developer and author of "The 12 Pillars of Mindful Leadership." Harnessing the power of mindfulness, Eric has transformed his life and business, and he's here to shed light on how you can do the same.
Our enlightening conversation takes us on a journey from Eric's inception into real estate to his exploration of mindful practices. We uncover the profound impact of mindfulness on productivity and satisfaction, and discuss the significance of the 12 Pillars of Mindful Leadership. We also explore the transformative potential of yoga, meditation, affirmations, and gratitude. Our discussion introduces the concept of 'dream yoga', an intriguing practice that could enhance your consciousness and change the way you handle challenging situations and make calculated business decisions.
As we wrap up our conversation, we learn about the various ways to connect with Eric and his work. From accessing his enlightening book and free meditation programs to joining his upcoming retreats, there are numerous opportunities to immerse yourself in the transformative power of mindfulness. Whether you're an entrepreneur seeking a more mindful approach to business or someone looking to reduce stress and enhance focus, our conversation with Eric offers invaluable insights. Tune in and discover the transformative power of mindful leadership.
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Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Latinos in Real Estate Investing Podcasts, where individuals just like you come to learn how to create wealth, real estate investing, entrepreneurship and business ownership. And today's guest, his name, is Dr Eric Holzappel, which is very, very I'm so happy that I have him here, and you'll see why as I share with you his experience. Eric is a successful developer and entrepreneur who has used mindfulness to transform his life and business and helps others to do the same. He has a PhD in economics. He's been a real estate CEO and developer 40 years, lectured real estate at Colorado State University for 20 years and practiced yoga and meditation for 30 years. He has been a commercial. He has been in commercial real estate on a national basis for over 40 years and developed commercial projects with tenants such as Kroger, walgreens, target and has developed hundreds of residential mix use projects. And, most recently, he is also the author of Profits with Presence. The 12 Pillars of Mindful Leadership, which he was a bestselling Wall Street Journal bestselling author, I believe, is what he said here in March of 2023. Sir Dr Eric, thank you so much for coming on and just taking the time to be here in the podcast. Sir, really, really appreciate you being here. I have so many questions and this is all up right up my alley sir.Speaker 2:
We're ready to be here, Martin.Speaker 1:
Thanks for having me. Okay, doc. So I mean you have so many, so much experience. I mean you run circles around most of our listeners, that most of us listening to you here. Where did this whole journey? Let's start with real estate. Where did this journey of real estate begin for you and how did that begin for you?Speaker 2:
Well, I mean, do you want to know the first real estate I did?Speaker 1:
Just how did you get started? How did you get started in real estate and when did you discover mindfulness and success? Yeah, we got a deal together.Speaker 2:
So I came out with an MBA in the mid-1980s and got my first job in real estate and I was immediately good at it at real estate. I hadn't had any experience up till that time. Within a few years, I was the CEO of an Australian based North American division for an Australian company and was traveling Los Angeles, denver, new Jersey, western Canada, reporting to London and Australia. And I was, you know, outwardly. I had all the checks of the CEO, the six figure salary, the Mercedes, the apartment. You know I built all this stuff. But I was really miserable. I was overweight, I drank too much, I was a walking boarding pass. I didn't get, you know, as an athlete, but I hadn't been in the gym in five years. And sometime in there, you know, I just hit a breaking point. I had an epiphany moment, I remember I was just, you know, way overweight and I just looked in the mirror and I said you know, if you're going to make some changes, you're going to come around too long. And I did, you know. I made some changes. I resumed some exercise, lost some weight and I decided to go back to college and get a PhD in economics. I was looking for more meaning in my life and I found yoga. Yoga was my first entry into mindfulness and was just like I'd become disassociated with my body. It really was really instantly helpful Me. I regained sports and those kind of things in my early 30s and my older brother had been meditating. He and my dad were strange. My dad was a football coach, my older brother was a poet. He was like oil and water and my older brother started meditating and I just watched them come back to the family and then rekindle with my dad. My dad was in his 70s. He didn't change at all, you know, but I just watched that. It was like they came back together and just like I got my family back and my brother said, hey, you want to try it? Meditation? I said, sure may. That was a game changer immediately for you. For years I was a closet meditator, which I mean it didn't come out, you know. I just Didn't have my own and wouldn't say it anybody. But then, you know, over time at our company, one by one, people would be noticing a difference in me and asking and we started to have a seed group where we would have Practices. We'd read a book and do a little. You know call them centering practices, not to be too weird or too goofy. And you know, over over six months the room started filling up with people and we ended up running, you know, an eight-week mindful based stress reduction course. And you know, and all the partners we just had a partner meeting Tuesday always started with a little grounding, a little centering. Different people are different levels with it. But somewhere there I launched a, a non-profit called living in the gap, where we train professionals to learn to run their businesses more mindfully with executive presence, and anyway, it's been rewarding and I wrote a book about it that I could share it with others.Speaker 1:
Yeah, I want to talk about that. So you just mentioned how does an executive run a business more mindfully? So I'll share my experience, which I shared with you a while ago. I'm a big Tony Robbins guy. Then I started really going into personal development years ago, in my early 20s, but I didn't discover meditation until I was Until 2016. I remember the day I started, actually, and it was after I was exposed to Tony Robbins and we did a meditation and a UPW I don't know how familiar you are with some of Tony's work and I started meditating shortly after that and Actually, I believe meditation has changed me. I've never been a closet meditator. I've never heard that word before, but when you say, how does entrepreneurs run their families Mindful, can you elaborate on that?Speaker 2:
No, it's an inward journey. Out you first learn. The only one you can really change and impact yourself. You know, and as you change, that at first is a when I told the story of my brother Bruce, you know my dad didn't change, but my brother Bruce changed nobody else's. Family change and the whole family change, the whole dynamic change. When you change, when you start being more aware, more present, you know other people's view, your view of other people's change. You come more, be more accepting, you become a little more compassionate, you slow down a little bit in an amazing thing that I've seen is then other people change when you give them the space to you know, when you give them the leadership and you give them the space to change. Other things in mindfulness is you know you learn how to listen better and listening to somebody can really open up a relationship. I think it's the key to relationships is listening. No, you learn that. You learn to listen a little more and you hear. You mean the business case, for it's just unbelievable where you know, start listening to your clients and start listening to your employees instead of just telling them all the time what they need and what they should be doing, and the whole dynamic changes. And I say it's a miracle business mindfulness, because you, if you learn it at work and then you take it home when you walk in, and what we teach people is okay when you are at work, focus at work a hundred percent. And then, when you leave work, shut that door, turn your mind to your family no, leave your phone in the holster. You know, actually talk and listen and and being gazed with your family when you're there. Because we've lost that ability to focus, we become we're in everything all the time we're at work and home, and you know, on our social media and in the news, and, and, and, and, and, and. We can do all those things in multitask, but not with consciousness. We can't be aware of all the things we're doing all the time. So the key is to you know, start regaining our focus and really choosing, when you're with your family, to be with your family and do those things. And when you're at work, work you can move the world in a few hours a day if you're focused 100%.Speaker 1:
What advice can you give to someone that is Totally addicted to their phone? Right, and we have an epidemic of that right. Who is it?Speaker 2:
Yeah, it's tough, versus to realize it right and acknowledge it. And then you know, you know, take social media apps off it. You know, one of the great things is to start taking some mindful walks with your phone at home. You know and and just you know realize the separation anxiety that you get. The world will be there when you get back. You know, start with a short walk, five minutes, and then ten, work up a little bit. But you know you're gonna have some times when you, when you separate from it Some of these apps like moment and some of the apps that can keep track. I mean you just can't even believe that we're on our phones two, three, four, five hours a day craziness. So one of the little things I did, like I realized I went back my phone was everything my wallet, my watch, my everything. I went back and got a watch because I found myself grabbing my phone to see what time it was and then I would be drawn in. You know, I wonder what time it is, but then I'm drawn in, I get the email, then I'm on the. You know this click and that click. So it's being just start being conscious of it. Other thing I've done is like and everybody won't do this. But you know you go to. I took a silent retreat, put your phone away for a week to see what it's like. You know I mean, it takes a little while to decondition from it.Speaker 1:
I'm at retreat. That is interesting. So did you go in the woods or something?Speaker 2:
Yeah, I went to a retreats in Northern Colorado that they had here and it just you just notice almost all these things that we do for distraction we even eat as a distraction, you know and just start noticing how distracted we are and what we're doing, you pull those things away, like when I went to anyway, they didn't even let you read your journal. You know which I'm addicted to those things. But just to start noticing all the different things that we just thrive on distraction, because we are so anxious about the present moment, about really being, you know, just slowing down and being with that other human being, or with ourselves or in nature. We're so divorced from nature, some mindfulness meditation everybody's not willing to do that but something that we get rekindled with just silence and being in the moment and the business case for it is focus. It's focus, focus, focus. If you can focus, you're going to be better at business.Speaker 1:
So why do you find that meditation that some people are not wanting to do? Meditation?Speaker 2:
Well, I think there's a number of reasons for it. I mean, it's not easy to get started. You know one thing we do we start people with two minutes of meditation. That's how I started two minutes and then I did Yep, because your mind is rarely really busy and when it comes down you feel like you're a little bit more. So I don't know. The answer is I know a lot of people are reluctant to it it's woo-woo, you know, I think woo-woo. Current state of the world divided, distracted, unable to make progress on key issues to me that's woo-woo. So I don't know the reason for it, but I know that if you start small and stay consistent, it takes way less time than you think to start and you're better off building up slowly over time, you know. So you start and be consistent with it and find some ways. Also throughout the day, mindful eating, mindful walk. You know setting your phone down, you know setting the tone at a meeting for an executive, for you know is, you know, we're not doing phones here today. We're not. You know, shut your screens please. If you got to do something, go do it. We just like to have a short, productive meeting, not a long one where everybody's so distracted and we don't even know what each other said. When we're done and just establish hey, we're going to have shorter, more focused meetings.Speaker 1:
You wrote this book. What are the 12 pillars of mindful leadership? Can you share some of those with us and enlighten us?Speaker 2:
First one is, you know, be present and practice mindfulness. It is a practice, so it is something. You have to work on it and if you think of anything, any athlete, any musician, anybody, they've got a practice. You know it takes that, especially in our world. Find your purpose in life, you know what are you here for? You know there's some. Simon Sinek writes a book. Finds your why. You know there's just a. You know, one of my purposes is just to be present, you know. And from there I find you know what I'm really good at and what I love to do and I find a purpose in life. For me right now it's, you know, sharing mindfulness with a business community Trying to make a bigger difference in that world, because I think business moves the world. You know it's going to be the key to us getting out of these, this divided and distracted world we're in right now. Create vision, create clarity, vision, intention, commitment and habits. Once we're get things cleared out and we know our purpose, we can create a vision that we see for the world and from that vision we can be very intentional and commitment and habits work hand in hand together. You know one thing people wonder why she said I committed to losing weight, or I committed to not drink, or I committed to. You know, get on the honor roll what the heck it is if our habits and our commitments aren't in a line. They're very hard. We need, if you really want to break a commitment, make one that's contrary to your habits, because we are our habits, we become our habits. So we need to work on getting rid of some habits that aren't with our vision, are consistent with our vision, and building ones that are so our habits and our commitments line up. So the days, like you said, you know I've been a couple of days I haven't meditated and whatnot, you know. So the habits not happen, but the commitment gets you back on the horse. The commitment gets you back on the horse. And other days, you know I've been doing my routine so long now it's much harder not to do it than to do it. You know it's. You know we're habitual creatures. They say like 95% of what we do is just the next thing without, you know, conscious intention. We're just moving along in the world. So if we can train ourselves to move along in the direction of our vision, then that works for us 24 seven. But if we've never done that work and never connected our vision and the other stuff. You know, oftentimes we have this, we have these commitments and whatnot, but we find oh, I just sabotaged myself again. What the heck happened? Why couldn't I do that? Because we haven't done the work to align our vision, intention, commitment and habits. Once we align, those things get a lot, lot easier. The smallest one, I would say. The one other one I would say is you know, be do, have that. So many people are just waiting, waiting to be happy until they've hit this level of success. Our culture has trained us that you gotta work hard, you gotta go to the right schools, you gotta get the right job, and then the family and the house and the second house, and then you get those and you need a bigger house. We want to travel. Then we start on a bus and then we go oh, we know I need to fly, and we say I gotta fly first. Before we know it, we need to have a private plane. We keep moving the goalposts. Happiness is out there somewhere. Maybe if I get to the moon I'll be happy. And just to reverse that and say you know, the science is clear. Sean Archer and a bunch of others at Harvard have found, happiness comes before success. If you're happy, you're gonna be more successful. So if you can find those ways to be happy now, before you've checked off all your list of all the things that culture is, I call it a cultural lie. We gotta do all these things and then we find happiness. You find happiness and still do those things. You know you bring happiness on vacation, whether you don't look for it there. Bring happiness to work and if you can't be happy at work time to make some changes, because that's where you spend most of your time. You know, and it's not just most of your time, it's your prime time when you feel good, you're rested, you're dressed, you're ready to go. You know the idea of being drained all day at work and then going home and flipping a switch you're gonna be happy. That's not gonna work. You know, I don't mind being tired at night, but I don't wanna be drained. So the other is just, you know, find ways. Find ways like, one of the lowest hanging fruits is gratitude. You know, I practice gratitude every day. It's an immediate mindset shift. Change my mind. I start looking for things to be grateful for and be happy for. I can feel it immediately, when I'm grateful that's the lowest hanging fruit, I think, in this world. Then you, when you look out, you notice you just say, oh, there's little things you know about it. And that mindset shift can change everything for you.Speaker 1:
I'll share this with you, dr Eric, this just this week it's August, as we're recording this August 2023. We went, my family and I, go to the beach for three days. Three or four days every year. We go to Waltham, new Jersey, and that's our part of our annual ritual. We just get away for a few days, we jump in the car, all of us slush together in the car, we drive three hours to Waltham and we just hang out as a family. And this year I decided to take my journal, because I have a journal and a gratitude journal. But this was my journal. This was my actual journal, where I just put my thoughts in right and I was like I had this intention. I was like I'm going to go to the beach. We left on Monday and I said I'm going to sit in the beach on Tuesday morning. I'm going to wake up early, go sit in the beach, listen to the waves and I'm going to just write. I'm going to journal on the beach. And I did that. And what's interesting is because I, like you, practice gratitude. I have a gratitude journal every morning where I put three things I'm grateful for every morning and I got to tell you my heart as I was sitting on the beach, the only things I can think of were the things I was grateful for. Like that was it. I wrote a whole page. I couldn't like usually I'll just write thoughts right, just whatever's in my head, like, hey, I'm feeling this way today, or whatever's in my mind, I got to get this deal done, or I got to figure this out, or I'm, you know, anxious or angry at this person, whatever feelings I've. I really will write it down. But I had nothing, man. I had nothing, doc. All I had was just gratitude. I was just I'm grateful for my family. That's all I had. And I wrote a whole page of just gratitude. And it's that habit. Like you said, I don't know when this happened. I can't tell you like I don't know when it happened, I just know it happened. I've been doing it for a long time. Just am I prayers in the morning.Speaker 2:
Well you, know I find happiness to be a choice. You know there's so much out there, you know, troubling in the world. I mean, it's hard to you know. Look, turn on the news channel and you know it's just like hopeless. You have to choose happiness at each moment. Where is it? You know what? Okay, all these things, but what is my grateful for? What is? You know I find happiness to be a choice and it's a choice. I have to keep choosing. You know I have to keep choosing. Okay, how can I be happy now? Because I know, with the other choice, I have all kinds of things to be disappointed about and you know, fearful about and you know cynical about and I have to just let those go. As a practice of meditation lets me, when those thoughts come up, let those go. No, I choose happiness. You know I choose the relationship. I choose, you know, gratitude. It's a choice and once you come from there, your whole world changes. You know you can keep taking steps. You know I think it lets you continue to make steps when you're uncertain, and that's so important for business. Also, it lets me cut loose of bad projects. When something's not working, I detach from it. I say, well, it's just not working. I got to move. I got to take the loss, move on. There's so many business benefits to the practices of mindfulness. It's focus, you know, and choosing happiness just lets me focus on the important things in life and not on all the other BS. That's just, you know, dominating our news cycle. So, dr.Speaker 1:
Eric. So if there's a listener out there because I constantly am talking about meditation, mindfulness and my rituals, you know, having read books like the Miracle Morning, how Elrod's Book and a bunch of other books, being in the personal development space involved as much as I am, I am a big advocate of meditation. I am, like I literally can say, and my wife has noticed too, that I've changed dramatically. Like the closest ones to you are the ones that I can tell you know, my wife's, like you don't get mad anymore, that angry I used to fly off the handbook. Now I could just I see things or I hear things and it's just like it's just a different perspective. What are you saying to someone that's like, yeah, that sounds great, but my mind is so busy. Like, listen, I haven't been meditating as much as you do have. I haven't nowhere near expertise that you have. I've been meditating only for a few years and I'm only up to 10 minutes. Like I'm still only up to 10 minutes. That's all I do every day. 3 minutes, that's it. That's it. It's got a compound effect obviously over time, but that's all. And even this morning in my meditation I listen to a semi-guided meditation. Sometimes it's guided, sometimes it's nice. What my unconscious mind tells me, that's what I go with. I go with whatever I'm feeling for. That morning and this morning's meditation was on, was a semi-guided meditation and was on. What do you need Like what do I need? What do you need?Speaker 2:
You know it's in. We have a nine-month mindful leadership program but we take six months to get people up to 10 minutes, you know. And then I take them on some longer ones. I've been meditating 25 or so years. I do 20 minutes, you know, and not every day. Yesterday I did 10, today I did 20. You know, if I'm rushed I do something. Miracle morning I love. The book you mentioned Even has a six-minute routine. You know when you do a minute of meditation, a minute of gratitude, you know, because there's those days you get a 6 am flight or you know the water hate blue in the night or whatever the heck you have. But it's a million times better to do something than the effort, you know, to do something. So I would say, you know our mind, we're all crazy. So when you start noticing your mind I mean a lot of people start meditation, they go I can't meditate. It really makes my mind crazy. Well, your mind has been crazy, you just haven't noticed. Then you start noticing. So let's say, start small and be consistent, don't try to slay the dragon all at one. You know, in one time you take a little bite. Just take a little bite, you know, and start doing that and just be consistent, start noticing and also some of the other things, like a mindful walk without your phone. You know, walking can be just incredibly mindful and helpful when you start noticing the landscape and what's going on and get a little nature in the walk and those kind of things versus you know, yeah, geez, what time are we closing. You know what's that? Oh, geez, you know you're on your, you take a walk and you haven't even noticed you left the building Because you stay on your gadget the whole time. You might get a little exercise. You know that might. I can't say it's not good for you to walk. You'll still get the exercise benefits, but the mindful benefits, the benefits of focus and stress relief man stress relief is huge Are there any studies that you might be aware of?Speaker 1:
I mean, you're the expert in this field. Are there any studies that show that mindful leaders are more productive?Speaker 2:
Maybe. What I'm aware of was Aetna. They had a study with 13,000 people and they found a $2,000 decrease in health care costs and a $3,000 increase in productivity. Those were line employees, not the top executives. I work with high producers, high income earners mostly, and I find that'd be much more dramatic. People are afraid, so many people are afraid. They say, oh, once I've made it and I got my bank, you know, then I'm going to start being mindful and gratified and grateful and, you know, giving some service work. But they're kind of afraid. You know that if you go mindful, that you'll stop producing. You know, that's the opposite of what I found. I found it gives you, you know, first it gives you permission to be happy now, which is why we want the things, why we want the money. But also it just gives you so much more focus. I can do more and less. I have less fear, you know, about loss and those kind of things. So I found that it can make it even more productive, definitely more productive. But, um, you know, if it made me a little less productive but I was less stressful and more happy, I'd still want personally. That's why I want those things. That's why I want, you know Money and material things are there because they're happy. You know, don't so. But I've learned I gotta bring my happiness to them. There's the. They're empty on their own. You know I'm not gonna be, I'm not gonna find happiness in a new car. I might want to drive it off the lot, but a week later, you know, it's gonna scratch and I'm, you know, making the payment. Then we're yeah.Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah. Let me ask you this question what is your morning rituals? Because morning rituals are power right. The way you start your morning, so goes your day right. So as goes your morning, so goes your day. What is your morning ritual? I mean 40 years of yoga, 30 years. Yeah, patient, I mean my good. I usually start off I yeah, I'm really really, I'm really happy. Just want to say this really quick I'm really happy that you have 30 years of meditation and you do 20 minutes, because but I've been meditating for seven years and I'm up to 10 and still you know. So that is, life gets crazy and it's like sometimes I like want to do more and then there's days that I do more just because my body you know.Speaker 2:
And then also, the other thing that can really help is when you get a chance, take a weekend meditation retreat, I you know, when you have to find, go do a deeper one, and you get to that deeper level and you bring it back to you 10 minutes, you know. But my routine is, you know, very similar to the miracle morning that you that you mentioned. And I know I read that book about eight years ago and it's when I added gratitude and affirmation to my morning routine. I was doing them and I had a morning quite a bit longer than that. But I do. I read, you know, at least 10 pages from a some sort of development inspirational book. People say, oh, really, I don't read since college, right, you know. And they, I find people reluctant to read because of focus. That reading is a focus activity and I don't know any trains our brain to focus but it's what the focus on. So if you read a book like well, profit with presents, a 12 pillars of my fellowship, you start looking, ok, my brain, and those are the seeds that I'm planning in my brain Starting, plus, it's teaching me to focus, spending those 10 pages. So affirmation, gratitude, I have prayer in my, in my morning routine that's. You know, any of these are optional yoga, some sort of mindful movement to get into my body, because we, our bodies, have become something that carries our head from meeting to meeting and we exercise but we're not even paying attention. Yoga teaches to pay attention to what's moving in the body and that comes down the brain. It's a science of consciousness. So something around there and every don't do yoga, don't, but find something that you have, you kind of mindful and moving movement is just so important. Meditation, you know, journaling, gratitude, journaling those things I track dreams. I don't have them every, you know, I don't, I don't remember every night, but I Dreams can be, you know, inspirational too.Speaker 1:
So tell me about that. You track them. So do you keep a journal of dreams Like? Tell me about that.Speaker 2:
I do I have a in my well, I don't have a separate one, but I I know dreams that I've had. I actually, if you, you know there's a, there's a guy named Andrew Holchak that runs dream yoga and there's, you know, there's ways to increase your consciousness through dreaming. You know that you become more conscious all day long, all night long too, but that's, that's a super well. I would assume it's a super well. I wouldn't start without it, huh increase your consciousness through dreaming. Yeah, it's crazy, unpack that. There's actually something called. Have you ever heard of lucid dreaming?Speaker 1:
Yes, I have lucid dreaming.Speaker 2:
You know you actually can get in the dream. You're where you're dreaming. You can change the dreams. That's in the world of dream yoga. Different people have that, different levels of grease, but it's crazy. Yeah, I never heard of that. It's a deep. This is a deep topic. Start small, two minutes, you know, and just see where it takes you, you know, and where, where everybody's gonna have a different jumping off point. But there's, it's a, it's a deep, you know, it's thousands of years old. Of course, the practices that are, you know, back in the Indian Hindu and you know Buddha and all. It's just it's.Speaker 1:
It's Really a deep and rich, rich subject and and I love it, I love it, I love it selfishly because of what is done for me, and I am glad that you came on here and I'm glad that you wrote that book. I'm actually gonna pick up the book this weekend and and listen to it. Isn't on, yes, it is definitely. I'm gonna listen to it on audible. So thank you so much, dr Eric, for coming on and Sheary your wisdom and your insights with the listeners. We're about to go into the untitled round where we're gonna ask you a series of questions. You don't have to think, you don't have to justify. My team had a whole slew of of business questions for you, but I think this, the mindfulness thing, is so much more. It means so much more dear to my heart than it, than business. And I mean that just because it's me Right, it's just kind of who I am, and now I think the listeners needed to hear from you, an expert and, um, so anyways, are you ready to, are you ready to play? We're about to go into the untitled round. We're gonna ask you a series of questions. All you got to do is go and answers. You can justify if you want. You don't have to you ready. Let's do it. Why bet? Real estate is awesome. The market right now is turbulent. Inflation is Necessary evil. I've always wanted to travel to India, who me too, haven't had anyone say that one, but me too, I love Indian. My advice to young people is Find out who you really are. By the way, indians have the most amazing weddings. I'm kind, so if you're listening to me and you're from India and India the set, invite me to your wedding, because I want to go to the three or four day party. I've seen it. I see that it's like. It's like an amazing event. I can't wait to go to experience that. I've highly, I highly recommend people should read profit with presents. The 12 pillars of mindful leadership. That's right. I think the president right now is doing the best again. Passion there is. There is a person speaking, a Meditator speaking from his center, point right there. Passion or stability, passion, more time or more money? We're done. Book smart or street smart, sorry, both. Coffee or tea, coffee. Success or happiness, happiness and, lastly, family or business, family. Thank you. Thank you so much, dr Eric. If people wanted to get a hold of you, get your book, connect with you. How do they find you? Where can they connect with you? Where can they go to your retreat? I said I heard you mentioned a Retreat in an earlier in our conversation. How, where do they find all this information to?Speaker 2:
website is living, living in the gap spelled outorg as all our programs. A lot of free resources on there. How to get started meditation there's a 21 day free Routine, like we talked about on there that sent to your website, sent to your email, every morning of five and the book is available on the website, or an Amazon Profit with presents.Speaker 1:
The 12 pillars of mindful leadership, profit with presents. You heard him here, guys. Thank you so much, sir, for showing up and Sharing with me, and and my audience really, really appreciate it. Thanks for having me and I really appreciate it. Thank you very much, sir. Thank you, thanks for what you do.