Alexa, Algothrims and Social Credit

Wow, time has flown by! This is an episode from the vault and was recorded in March 2018. 

It's May 2026 and I'm uploading a few episodes for your listening and reminiscing pleasure. Kind of prophetic and, dare I say, spot on?! Miss you Melvin, Phil and TU...

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:07

Welcome. Settle in. It's time for your weekly dose of Truth Unscripted. And welcome back to Truth Unscripted. I am Julie.

SPEAKER_00 0:26

And I'm Melvin. Welcome back, listeners.

SPEAKER_03 0:28

Hey Melvin.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Hey, what's happening?

SPEAKER_03 0:31

We find ourselves here once again.

SPEAKER_00 0:32

Once again.

SPEAKER_03 0:34

I want to ask you, do you know what this is? Any ideas?

SPEAKER_00 0:44

No.

SPEAKER_03 0:45

No ideas?

SPEAKER_00 0:46

No.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Okay. Well, that would be the sound of Alexa laughing.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Yeah. Have you heard anything about this? Uh it's been all over the news today.

SPEAKER_00 0:58

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

You're not impressed. Um, you know, it's one of those things. Or frightened as so many people are.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

You know, I think we give AI way too much credit sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

You're saying that to me. Every show that we do is in some way about AI.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Okay, good point. Good point. I I stand corrected. My point is let me let me restate my statement. Okay. I think in this case we may be blaming AI too much. Really? Yes. I think this is the result of some disgruntled or, you know, tongue-in-cheek programmer who decided let's see how this plays.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

You think so? Yeah. Well, it Alexa is programmed to laugh at jokes.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

So but you're thinking some But nobody told a joke.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

Smart Alec.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

At three o'clock in the morning.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

Or just when everybody's sitting around quiet. Alexa starts laughing.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

Triggered by certain things, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Okay, so what but you know, a lot of the people who've been polled in this thing have said there was nothing going on. We're sitting here quietly, and Alexa just starts laughing and it creeped us out.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

Yeah, and the the headline that I saw first thing today was there's a good chance I get murdered tonight. Terrified Amazon Echo user reveals Alexa has been emitting bone-chilling laughs at random. That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

I think one talks about a witch's laugh and several other things. I mean, it has programmer.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

Some of these things are just so funny. Yeah, there's somebody that said that they they were trying to turn off the lights in their house using Alexa. Yes. But Alexa reportedly kept turning the lights back on and eventually uttered an evil laugh.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Yes. So you know I don't have one of those things in my house.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

Well, and you know that I don't have one of those things.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

So for me, I'm thinking it's what you get.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Yeah? It's what you get. Wow, you have no sympathy.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Well, you know, I'm trying we've gotten to the point where we're letting Alexa now I don't have a pro I would love to have a wired house. But I don't want it to be that kind of wired.

SPEAKER_03 3:17

One lady or one person, I'm not sure, lady or not, but they said, so I just used my Alexa to set a two-minute timer while trying to do a plank. And I asked how much time I had left, and she laughed.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

There you go, that's funny.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

And another one here. Just one more, I'll read these. Having an office conversation about pretty confidential stuff, and Alexa just laughed. Anyone else ever have that?

SPEAKER_00 3:44

You know, it it she is scheduled or programmed, I should say, right, to listen for specific keywords and be prepared to respond. I'm just a little bit again, I'm I'm going back to my theory of it being, you know, some programmer going rogue and writing some crazy code. Because it's one thing if the code word was used or something close to that word was uttered, and Alexa just misunderstood.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

In the silence of night, and the Yeah, I'm telling you, if I'm laying there and I'm almost asleep, and I hear that laughing, I'm gonna be out of bed looking around, making sure everything uh that would freak me out.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Alexa is unplugged, wrapped up, put back in a box, and is heading back to Amazon. Period. No, you don't need to send me a replacement. You just need to put my money back in my account because this was creepedastic and I'm I'm I'm good.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

Well, and what do you think about the guy who has an echo and said that he was watching a TV in a commercial, asked somebody to order cat food.

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Right.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

And it ordered cat food. Now that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Is that one I get? Matter as as a matter of fact, during the Super Bowl, yeah, if I'm not mistaken, um Amazon said that they've done something so that Alexa will not respond to the commercials. Because, you know, during the commercials, you hear people, you know, in the commercial, Alexa do this, Alexa do that. And so why shouldn't Alexa respond? Now, to me, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

It does logic. But it's still, you know, we're we're just uh these devices. No, I didn't.

SPEAKER_00 5:35

Well, the consumer bought a device that's voice activated on Alexa Do or Alexa whatever, and Alexa heard her name being uttered to say get cat food.

SPEAKER_03 5:48

Yeah, so you're saying she's just efficient in doing what she's told.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

I'm saying she's doing what she was told to do.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

Yeah, I don't know. Have you seen all those videos uh on YouTube that people are asking Alexa if she's connected to the CIA? No. And allegedly the light that's blue normally when you ask a question kind of it pauses and flashes for a second and then turns red and it shuts off.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

No, I've not heard such foolishness.

SPEAKER_03 6:14

Anybody out there who has one of these, give that a try and let us know if that happens.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

And email us, you know, let us know what happened.

SPEAKER_03 6:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

You know, or or post it on our, you know, to our Facebook page.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

I just think it's hilarious in light of everything that we talk about. This is just this is such a fun thing.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

It's fun for somebody.

SPEAKER_03 6:35

It's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_03 6:37

So Well, on to more serious discussion. We have talked briefly about well, we've talked a lot about algorithms in the context of different devices and technology. But uh just kind of wanted to revisit it in terms of some things that are out there now and newer in the news. Okay. And I kind of wanted to start with, you know, how would you define algorithm? I was looking at a TED talk video. Okay. And I thought it was a good description, really brief. This gentleman said that algorithm is math computers use to decide stuff.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

And I always have thought of it as a major math equation.

SPEAKER_03 7:21

Right. That helps uh do it performs calculations, data processing, absolutely. Automated reasoning, breaks big things down into many little things, um, and therefore it can make many determinations based upon those little things. So in light of that, we wanted to discuss that this week.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

Yes, we do. It's one thing in the in the way that we've always known that algorithms existed. They've been used for a long time. So it's not anything new under the sun. They've been used increasingly so in a lot of more creative ways. And that's not odd in and of itself. But China.

SPEAKER_02 8:06

Oh, it's scary stuff, really.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Is taking it to a whole nother level. It is absolutely to the point where people are using the terms of it's it's focus of both fascination and horror. So, you know, you're always fascinated with innovative things that people do with technology or what have you. But when it borders on being horrifying or, you know, going across a line for you, is when you really start going, wait, wait, wait, wait a minute. Are we really going to do this? And that's kind of where China is right now, in a lot of people's opinion.

SPEAKER_03 8:45

Well, and I I I'd say based on what I've read and heard, I'd have to agree. It's pretty horrifying. The whole idea of social credit. Yes. And this is, I have to say, I'm gonna say it, Black Mirror episode. And like I said, it it is exactly the rating of people based upon an instant reaction of a person that you're dealing with, or some data that's but it's being driven by algorithm. Yeah. I mean, some data that is uh, I don't know, picked up by a store or a transaction of some kind.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Uh it's it's packaged in a way where it's makes you think by the by the things that they say, oh well, this is a good thing. They're gonna try to tackle corruption and you know, high profile issues and things of that nature. Okay. What are they and what are they what are they using the algorithm to look at? And that's when you start going, well, well, wait a minute. They they're we're already looked at be by on the basis of our online behavior, where we go, what we do, well, yeah, that's being fed into the algorithm. Just as much as much data as they can get on you. And as you said, it becomes and creates individual ratings for you as to where you fall and whatever this scale is that they come up with, and what that what and what is that gonna mean for me.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

Well, and even to the point of looking at who your friends are on social media, determining what their financial status is, and rating you according to uh in in essence who your friends are and how much money they have. And you get a good rating if they've got a lot of money and not so great if they don't.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

And impacting your your ability for things as simple as travel or access to jobs based on this information that this algorithm extrapolates.

SPEAKER_03 10:43

Well, and what they're going to do is encourage people to sign on for this by awarding them these benefits of maybe travel, ease of travel, or uh merchandise or something in order for their participation and increasing their score.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Aaron Powell And you can say encourage. It's gonna start out maybe as encouraging, but as it goes along, it's gonna become one of those things of what do I do if I'm not a part of this crazy process?

SPEAKER_03 11:13

It's kind of the same thing as the microchipping, which we've talked about. Right now, it's a choice. We don't have to do it. But eventually, in order to participate in society, and we go back to that whole idea, we're gonna have to comply with it. Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

And right now they're saying that this is um this is taking place in a lot in the larger cities or the huge cities such as Shanghai and Hangzhou, there are up to thirty local credit pilots of this type um in these in and in and amongst the huge cities in in China.

SPEAKER_03 11:46

So well, and this quote that I've picked up I thought was really interesting. Uh it's the official rhetoric that the government, I guess, is putting out there. It says, uh, according to the documents, what is being developed will allow the trustworthy to roam everywhere under heaven while making it hard for the discredited to take a single step.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

That is very concerning.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

It's concerning because in a perfect world, you would think, well, I'm gonna be one of the trustworthy, so this is great. And those people out there who are scammers and just the CD under side underbelly of society, they're gonna be limited. The question is, what if the algorithm includes you in that group that are perceived as the underbelly for whatever reason? And you're going, wait a minute. I'm a I'm an upstanding citizen.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

Yeah, I how do you ever get out of it? No. And I guess that's the thing. I mean, you're kind of stuck there. It's that's a frightening thought. They talk about how on this scale buying video games gets you marked down. Did you miss that? Did you read that?

SPEAKER_00 13:05

I missed that. Oh, wait.

SPEAKER_03 13:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Uh wow.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

That's gonna affect a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Wow. So video games are a note-no.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

Yeah, and being of as I mentioned, being friends with low-rated people is bad news.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Wow. You gotta ditch your friends because you know everybody's got some friends, is you know.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

Buying a lot of video games, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

I mean, hey, you know what? You're in trouble.

SPEAKER_03 13:30

Uh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

You're in trouble right now because I'm a gamer.

SPEAKER_03 13:34

Uh-oh. Yeah, that is a problem for me.

SPEAKER_00 13:37

You're in trouble. Now I got a great credit score. At least I had one. And now that they find out that I'm a gamer, my credit rating just dropped.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

Oh, and and who knows what else it could be?

SPEAKER_00 13:50

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 13:51

I mean, maybe your your physical health.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Oh, well, we've talked about this before. Let me tell you something. You're losing points right now every every time you talk.

SPEAKER_03 14:00

Well, I mean, they could take into account your mental health, which they say that they can kind of gauge by your social media use.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

My goodness.

SPEAKER_03 14:08

Maybe your genealogy. All of this data that is being collected on us every single day is is well, in essence, gonna create the score.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

How insane is this? I mean, it it was and this is the reason why I was so incensed when I saw that episode of Black Mirror. Because I knew we were we were just on the cusp of that kind of foolishness in real life. And here we have, it's like they watched that episode of Black Mirror and said, Hey, you know what? I think I like that.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

Yeah, that looks pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

I think we should do that. That's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

Well, it's China's leading the way on that. It's it's interesting. If you want to call it leading the way, well, it's leading a way.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

Yeah, and I understand. We live in a world of data. We live in a world that's driven by data. And people have gotten to the point where they feel like data is the greatest representer or the you know of future behavior, etc., and so on. And in certain scenarios, with certain things, it is true. But you can't boil everybody down to the data. Because you have people who have circumstances that have dictated some facts in their lives that are totally out of beyond their control.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

Yeah, I mean, people can be in financial problems if they have a sick child who requires extensive medical care or any number of things could happen. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

What if you what if you were a personal assistant for someone? And as a personal assistant, you were required to or they asked you to buy games for their child or whatever. Right. Now, you'd like to hope that you're not using your own whatever to do this, but who knows? With the way the algorithm algorithms work, there's video and everything else that might play into all of this information and data that's collected. And whether you're using somebody else's uh account to purchase those things for them or not, you're the person seen on the video purchasing the games, and so you just lost points.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

Well, and that's true. So you'll be there'll be people paying others on the side.

SPEAKER_00 16:35

So there'll be black markets. Game purchasing. Listen, dude, your credit is your your social credit is in the toilet anyway. You can't go any lower. You need to go purchase this new game for me.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

And I'll leave the money in a post office box in this town because we can't have any contact because you'll lower my number.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yeah, because you know I really can't talk to you.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

But you know it's gonna be you know, it could be store purchases if you're buying too much soda at the store. Sure. If you're buying too much red meat, or if you're reading that book.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

I'm already telling you. I'm already telling you. China, you might as well just go ahead and put me down in the in that that negative category because I am not gonna let an algorithm dictate for me who I'm friends with.

SPEAKER_03 17:25

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Who I hang out with.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

Well, let me say this to you. Yes. And I mean this, and you know I do. I hope you always have that choice.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

No, here's the reality. You do always have that choice.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

Oh, well, we've we've been around that.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

No, listen to what I mean by let me listen to what I mean. Even if you are mandated to participate, you can opt out. Even your behavior can opt you out of the process by simply saying, okay, y'all have held me down and stapled me or labeled me or done whatever you've done to force me to be a part of this process, but I am not going quietly into the night. I will.

SPEAKER_03 18:13

Well, and that may sound great, but two months down the line when you're not able to buy food for your family or God forbid get medical care or anything like that, it's gonna be a different story. You're right. You're gonna feel like you have to do it.

SPEAKER_00 18:28

Hey, you know what? I'm gonna feel like I have to do something.

SPEAKER_03 18:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:32

And so that becomes a question. So what are they what what are they potentially? You know, what kind of behavior are they potentially forcing people to exhibit? Realistically, if they do something like this and you push a person to a point where they feel like, I I have no other alternative here. Yeah, I mean, come on. It's just ridiculous.

SPEAKER_03 18:53

You know, I I'm reminded of an episode a couple episodes back about this type of thing and how places in China you're limited with toilet paper use in public restrooms. It makes me think, you know, even that is gonna be controlled.

SPEAKER_00 19:13

Right.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

If you have a low score, we're only gonna let you have two squares.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

It's about the choices that we make with the technology that we have and how we choose to use it, because from that standpoint, there's some very cool things that are be done being done or being researched as a result of the ability of algorithms.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

Oh, absolutely. But we're talking about the beginning of something that's going to affect your daily life potentially.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

You know, I feel like the citizens are going to it'll be it. Let me say this. It's gonna be interesting to see how the citizens respond to this type of program. Because, you know, m my expectation would be that they're going to step brothers, no.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 19:59

This isn't gonna work for me.

SPEAKER_03 20:01

I don't know. You know, you know, people stand in line, as we've said, for these new technologies. No, they do, and if they are rewarding people for that, you know, you have have friends who said they don't care as long as it makes it more convenient.

SPEAKER_00 20:13

Yeah, absolutely. But what happens when you when a member of your household okay, let's just start there. Husband, wife, and two children. You know, maybe son and daughter-in-law, whatever. You gotta distance yourself from one of them because they fall into the the the negative list.

SPEAKER_03 20:33

Well, that is a possibility.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Oh no.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

I mean, no.

SPEAKER_00 20:37

I'm just not feeling that.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

Yeah, I'm not either. I am so. But that's the direction. Imagine that. We have a government of one of the largest populations in the world. Who's at the forefront of this?

SPEAKER_00 20:51

It is ridiculous. And I just don't think that I don't think that the public is going to accept. There's a lot of things that we accept because we have no choice, and that we can find some uh modicum of reasonableness in in whatever that is.

SPEAKER_03 21:15

This is just so well, and citizens in China have put up with a lot of things that I don't think we in our democracy would. You know, human rights violations and the government controlling aspects of their life. So that may be something that well, like you said, it may not be a choice. I don't know how this is really playing out there.

SPEAKER_00 21:41

I'm hoping that this is something that is really in the experimental stages and phases and and and you know, but I just find that we are in such a we're this is 2018. I would like to think that we are becoming more. As opposed to Yeah, that's it It is a good question.

SPEAKER_03 22:07

Does this type of thing move us forward in a perfect world? Or does it does it take us back?

SPEAKER_00 22:14

In a perfect world where good and the evil were as as black and white as that. But the things why how do you get to decide that a video game is a bad thing? How do you get to decide who travels and who gets a job based on an algorithm? I understand that there are there's documentation out there that shows who's gonna be uh a risk in terms of a good hire versus a poor hire. There's always the exception to the rule. Well, there's always the exception, and that works the both ways. You've got that person that on paper should be a perfect fit, and they and it just doesn't work. Right. And then you've got that person who nobody thought would ever amount to anything.

SPEAKER_03 23:00

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:01

And they amaze everyone.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Well, I guess when they when they think of the fact that they're pulling all this information from someone's life, shopping habits, uh, marital status, relationships, um anything that they can access, you know, sure online, that they're getting a pretty accurate picture of that person.

SPEAKER_00 23:22

Have you ever been at a point in time in your life where your travel, shopping habits, um, the things that you searched online and all of those things were out of the norm, but there was a very specific reason for it?

SPEAKER_02 23:37

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Okay. Sure. So, you know, you're going through you have a m someone in your life who is ill or who's just gone through some tragic circumstance, and you find yourself searching for things that you were that are not really related to your thought patterns and your behavior, things that you would not normally do other than because this thing has taken place. But now we're gonna question your mental stability. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

I mean, that in and of itself is gonna be an indicator.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Yeah, we're gonna question your mental stability now because why else would you be going to these things? Why it it's it's it's just not good business.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

Well, and to think of all of the things that it could be used to control.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

That's the that's the part that's so alarming.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Right.

SPEAKER_03 24:24

But you know, three years ago, Facebook patented a system of credit rating that would consider the financial history of your friends. Facebook. That's a little close to home for all of us, I think.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Well, uh you know.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

So that's something to think about.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Well, I mean, it's we've we've talked about all of this on some level amongst ourselves or between ourselves, and yeah, so it doesn't nothing surprises me. But again, I I like to wave that flag of I'm a very, very, very intermittent user of the social network.

SPEAKER_03 25:02

Oh, well, you use a lot of other things.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Very limited. Yes, I do.

SPEAKER_03 25:07

So you you may not get on Facebook a lot, but you do a lot of other things.

SPEAKER_00 25:09

I do a lot of other things. This is true.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

You know, you've got the computers that you're building and the gaming and the security cameras that you're gonna do. Yes, that's right, China.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

I'm a gamer and I'm a computer builder, and I am all those things that uh you got listed as bad or whatever, according to this.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

You know, all those Fitbits out there that have been, you know, gathering information about your health habits.

SPEAKER_00 25:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 25:34

Look out.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

They are, and they're telling all this stuff on me. So I already know. Yeah, I am not gonna make the cut. I already know this. But go ahead. You like you were gonna say something.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Well, no, I was I was gonna take us off into kind of an a side issue here.

SPEAKER_00 25:51

Well, you I'll let I'll let you go to your side topic and see if it's my side topic.

SPEAKER_03 25:55

Well, psychologists from the University of Toronto have created an AI that essentially reads your mind with astonishing accuracy.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

So you're using this AI because you read my mind because this was the this was the side topic that I was going for. Really? Yes.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

All right. Well, they're using algorithms that are able to recreate images seen by humans based on their brain activity.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

This I find absolutely fascinating.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

Yeah, this like gives me chills as I'm sitting here thinking about this good and bad.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Yes, but I find it fascinating.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

It is fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

You know, simply because A, that they're able to do it within a modicum of the images, they are close. I mean, they're they're close.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

They really are. And I don't know if you saw the article or any kind of news about the facial reconstruction.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

No, I did not.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

They are really eerily close.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

And that's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

And that's that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 27:01

So here, so my mind automatically jumped to the next phase, and I started thinking about those people who are blind. And I said, So if we can have an algorithm that can take what someone sees and duplicate that image, is there a way that if you and I are sitting at the same event and I'm able to see it, the algorithm is able to reproduce that image. Is there a way that it could reverse with a some kind of apparatus that has that has invented it hasn't been invented yet hasn't been invented yet? Or maybe it hasn't been invented yet, but it's based upon the what the algorithm is reading in the brain, right? Can it feed those same images that it's recreating into this because it's evidently it's able to follow the network of impulses and recreate the image. Could it possibly be used to give the blind the little device on the side of the head?

SPEAKER_03 28:04

And we see that everywhere now in movies and TV.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

And they've talked for a long time about us being wired.

SPEAKER_03 28:10

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

And we see that their technology is getting to the point where they are more and more able to begin to read what the brain's activity is saying and doing.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

So you're saying a sighted person seeing an image and it relaying to the brain through the algorithm and the unknown device at the end of the day. Of the non-sighted person.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

So's blind, who's just had a baby, or who's lost their sight, and and and they they're not able to see all of those things that are happening around them in their child's life or whatever, to be able, even if it was a less than perfect image.

SPEAKER_03 28:59

Wow, but it's an image.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

And I don't know why my brain immediately went to Well, that's really I I give you credit for that because that's not where I went. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

But I think that's a really fabulous thought.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

I I just that I it just I just saw it as being the next evolution of the technology and being able to reverse it and use it for someone to see.

SPEAKER_03 29:26

My mind went to being able to access people's brain in order to maybe recreate a crime, the last few minutes of someone's life. I don't know if it's at the point of of after someone has passed away, but we did talk about brain activity last week.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

We did talk about brain activity.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

So that's a possibility, but being able to um, you know, get the face of someone who's committed a crime from a witness or victim. And then I also went into what about dreams? What about being able to make a movie of your dream?

SPEAKER_00 30:02

So here's a here's the question that would happen with that. Is it based upon being able to follow the synaptic information that comes from your visual cortex or is it about just the synaptic activity? Because then I could see maybe dreams. And even in the other scenario, I would think they would have to get that information as it was happening.

SPEAKER_03 30:32

Well, it says that it's collected. Yeah, they said it's collected uh based on their brain activity through thought process as measured by um EEG sensors. So it's brain activity creating um essentially a mental impression of something.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

Correct. But what I'm saying is is that that brain activity was they saw the picture of the lion.

SPEAKER_01 30:56

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

And the EEG or whatever it was that they've got attached was able to capture that image of what they saw at that moment.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

Well, the people that did this experiment that the uh University of Toronto conducted, right? They had sensors attached to them before they were shown images of faces. Correct. The AI was then able to reconstruct the images, the faces, using information read from the scans.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

So what I'm saying though is they already had the electrodes on.

SPEAKER_03 31:30

True. Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

So when they saw the image, the AI is collecting that data as they're seeing that image. Now, to your point, the question then would be is the is the algorithm also able to read images that are dreamt? Because in that scenario, you do have the ability to, to some degree, if you got the if they dreamt about it and they were wired up, you'd be able to see it. Or if, say for example, we're trying to draw do the image of you know how they do the uh the crime photographer.

SPEAKER_03 32:09

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

And I think that's what they're and so they're thinking too. It's like, okay, Julie, think about the think about what happened.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

The guy who was walking towards you before he snatched your purse. What do you remember? Boom. And here's the little algorithm is going, and you're trying to remember the look and the face, and the algorithm is grabbing all of that little information, and boom, here you get this this photo.

SPEAKER_03 32:31

Well, and I don't know if you saw this episode, but again, here I'm mentioning Black Mirror, but this technology is is in a lot of the episodes, and that's one of them. I don't know if you saw this. Do you recall it? Uh I don't want to give away the ending, but basically, you know, they had somebody who uh was a an insurance person. Yes and they were able to go and talk to somebody and and get the last images regarding an incident and it played on a little computer screen in front of them.

SPEAKER_01 33:01

Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:01

So I think down the line that's where this kind of stuff is headed. Right now, I think it's where you're saying where it's like what you're thinking at that moment.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

Right. But even in your scenario, what they did is they talked to them about what happened.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

And so, you know, it's it's it's human nature.

SPEAKER_03 33:17

All the sensory triggers they provided to the brought that memory back.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

It's human nature for you to think about those things. And so it's there in your brain at that point. The question is, can they pick up images that are stored and and replayed, or only those things that are captured live?

SPEAKER_03 33:38

Yeah. Well, and they're quoted as saying it could also have forensic uses for law enforcement in gathering eyewitnesses information on potential suspects rather than relying on verbal descriptions provided to a sketch artist.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 33:52

So I think that's where it's going. And wow, the uh the facial reconstruction pictures that I've seen are incredible. They're so accurate.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

It's it's and I'm just telling you, because I'm I'm that because I am that um creative thinker, gamer, out of the box kind of guy, you know, my mind automatically, I've got a ton of other things that I've already thought of that if this technology actually is this amazing, and if they were able to find a way to apply it so that they could feed it, feed the data back in, there's a ton of things that they can really do. I mean, they would be able to really do with something like this. The but the opportunities are limitless.

SPEAKER_03 34:40

They are, and I think in terms of, like you said, people who have certain issues. They also mentioned, you know, working with people who are non-verbal. So there are a lot of ways that this could be used for good. And then I think too, there's a lot of that other side, as there always is. There's that the good and the bad and the unintended consequence. This type of reconstruction of memory potentially could really change the face of law enforcement and crime and how everything works, you know, with facial recognition, uh, the technologies, it's kind of blows my mind.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

I mean, and then again, like you said, if you want to think of the downside of it, well, and I don't know that it's a downside being able to locate criminals easier, but what if a crime was being had been committed? You've never seen these individuals, you don't know anything about these individuals, but now you're shown this photo. Maybe even a photo of the aftermath of the crime. And now I can pull this from your brain because you've seen this, and then we were like, the only way you could have seen this information or seen this image is if you had been there.

SPEAKER_03 36:01

I almost didn't know where you were going for a second. Ah. So you're saying somebody could feed an image to you, and then it could be used against you, so to take the fall for a crime of some kind.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

I'm just saying, what if you walked into think about it? And it could be fed to you in a way that you just never know. Yeah, you you come in and you you visit, you know, you you're called into somebody's office, and on their desk there are three or four magazines, and then there's a photo, and you just look and wow, that's that's kind of gruesome. That's weird. You know, and next thing you know, hey, you know, I'm gonna have to reschedule that meeting and da-da-da-da-da-da. And you go back out to your desk, and then there's a couple officers come up and say, Um, we would like we need to ask you some questions. You know, and and the first thing they do is they strap you in and put this thing on your head, and you're like, What is this?

SPEAKER_03 36:49

This is a new technology, and so we Well, hopefully there would be there'll be ways of of working through those issues.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

Now, mind you, you know, I only went there because you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:02

That's where well that's what we do. We kind of go down the line a few years.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

My thought, of course, is always, or my thought, of course, for this one initially and primarily is man, how cool would this be?

SPEAKER_03 37:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:18

And I agree, it's the non-sided.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

It's pretty fascinating. Pretty fascinating stuff.

SPEAKER_00 37:23

So I'm telling you, my brain is just bristling with all of these potential opportunities for this stuff. I can see all kinds of things they could do with this.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

Oh, yeah, I I can too. I mean, the dream part, if they could recreate, you know, wouldn't that be fascinating to put a little device on your, you know, temple before you go to sleep, and then you can review your dream the next day.

SPEAKER_00 37:47

That could be really, really, really scary.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

I could be I have you never had one of those dreams. That could be the coolest thing.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Have you never had one of those dreams that was just from start to finish bizarre? I mean, just crazy from the beginning to the end.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

Of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:09

And to try you, you can't make sense of it while you're in the dream, let alone outside of the context of the dream. Can you imagine?

SPEAKER_03 38:18

Oh, I think it'd be awesome. I would love to uh I'd love to be able to analyze my dreams better. Because you know, I don't remember a lot of it. Yeah. Bits and pieces, you know.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

And maybe that's a good thing. I'm just saying. Maybe that's a good thing. There have been times where I'm telling you I was fighting monsters, I was working all night. I mean, I've I've had times where I woke up tired because I had the busiest dreams ever.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

Or the falling dreams. Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

The cool thing for me is I have kind of mastered on some levels at times, lucid enough dreams that you know that one where you're going and you you're trying to climb over the fence and you get tangled. Oh no. I can hit the rewind.

SPEAKER_03 39:11

Or for those of you who sleepwalk on occasion, like I do, we kind of act out those dreams. So that takes it to a whole new level there.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

I'd like to see what exactly goes on in the middle of the night that I'm up and doing.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

So I can I I get that.

SPEAKER_03 39:29

Yeah, I think that would be really, really cool. I'd love that. So Alright.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Yeah. I'm gonna go with that until you review one of those dreams and go. Wait. Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, stop. Hit the delete, delete.

SPEAKER_03 39:45

Uh yeah. Well, hopefully I'll have the chance to try that out.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

All right.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

I'm guessing we'll we'll put that right on the list underneath. Uh no, we're actually gonna put this above, you know, manufactured meat, but it probably has to be on the list beneath meat. It does, it does. I think the manufactured meat actually exists right now.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:08

And we promised people that we're gonna test it to see the and we still are, and we are gonna do that. We are, but it's on the list. It's on the list.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

Our bucket list.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

On our bucket list.

SPEAKER_03 40:20

Our truth unscripted bucket list.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 40:23

We have a we're not doing it bucket list.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 40:27

And uh, we are doing it. Yes, and on that we're not doing it is chipped, we're not getting chipped.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

That's that that's the plan.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

We're not having Alexa in our house.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

That's the plan. And you hear me saying that because I was the guy who once said I wouldn't have a debit card, and I've got one.

SPEAKER_03 40:42

You know, debit card's nothing compared to I said I wouldn't do it.

SPEAKER_00 40:46

Well, and here I am. Yeah, who knows? They might something might come along and they make that chipping just suddenly become the best thing ever.

SPEAKER_03 40:56

Well, that's what I was saying. You know, that if they reward people and it's hey, as everyone says, it's convenient.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Please, I'm trying not to drink the Kool-Aid. Yeah. I'm trying.

SPEAKER_03 41:08

All right, well, all right. We'll help each other.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

All right.

SPEAKER_03 41:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

Well, folks, hit us up on Facebook at Truth Unscripted.

SPEAKER_02 41:17

You can email us as always at truthunscripted at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

And remember the truth is out there.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

And it's unscripted.