Connecting Our Conversations: Meet PSNE's New Moderators

In this episode of Connecting Our Conversations, General Presbyter Rev. Shannan Vance-Ocampo sits down with the Presbytery of Southern New England's newly elected Moderator, Rev. Jenny Peek, and Vice Moderator, Elder Keith Rhoden Jr., to learn more about the people behind this year's leadership team. 

Together, they reflect on their ministries, their shared commitment to inclusion and connection, and their hopes for the year ahead as they help guide the life and work of the Presbytery

Transcript

Welcome And Meet The New Leaders

Speaker 0:01

Well, hello everyone. Uh, this is Shannan Vance -Ocampo. I use she and her pronouns, and I serve as the general presbyter for the Presbytery of Southern New England, and this is Connecting Our Conversations, which is our podcast space for conversations that push the edges of our faith and help us to deepen discipleship. The Presbytery of Southern New England is a regional governing body in the Presbyterian Church USA. And today I am talking with Jenny Peeke and Keith Rhoden Jr. Jenny is the moderator of our Presbytery and Keith is our vice moderator, and both of them were just elected at our May meeting. And we've done this before. We think it would be really great to have them on the podcast and get to know them better, have some open conversation and to just think through questions about leadership and who they are and this year that they'll have together in service to the Presbytery. So we're really excited to have both of you on the podcast and welcome Jenny and welcome Keith to connecting our conversations. Thank you.

Speaker 1 1:06

Thank you very much.

Speaker 1:08

So one of the things we like to do at the beginning of the podcast is give our guests a chance to, I've just said like two things about both of you, but to give you both a chance to do some introducing of yourselves however you would like to,

Jenny And Keith Introduce Themselves

Speaker 1:20

and um whatever you'd like to share. And then we'll get into some other uh conversations. So Jenny, we'll let you go first.

Speaker 3 1:27

Sounds good. Thank you, Shannan. And it's good to be here and good to be good to be with all our listeners. Um, so yes, I'm Jenny Peek. I use she, her pronouns. I live in Hamden, Connecticut, right next to New Haven, and am uh excited to be serving as moderator this year. Um, I work as the co-pastor of the University Church in Yale and a chaplain in the chaplain's office uh at Yale. And so I'm in a validated ministry. And so when I get to do stuff like this that connect me to my fellow Presbyterians, it's always a joy. Um, as I as I'm surrounded by everyone at Yale, which is also a joy. Um, and I'm glad to be here. Thanks. Keith.

Speaker 1 2:06

Thanks. Thanks. I am Keith Rhoden Jr. I am um I use he him pronouns. I currently reside in the Indian Orchard section of Springfield. So I worship at um, though I'm officially a member of First Presbyterian Church of Hartford, I also have the opportunity and pleasure to worship at MLK in Springfield. Um I'm currently serving on Deacons as at First Press Hartford, um, but I've also served as an elder, I've served as clerk of session and so forth, um, carrying many roles for more years than I can remember. Um, as far as my um occupation, I am uh a property manager. I'm behind the desk at a senior property on Vernon, Connecticut. And um we can get maybe we'll get into a little bit more about that later right now. Um anything else? I'm excited to be here, excited for the opportunity and um the trust that you've put into uh was put into me to take on the role of vice moderator. Thank you.

Speaker 3:22

Thanks, Keith. I was like going to First Hartford. Well, you all have the strawberry festival, which I try, I didn't get to it last year, but I do enjoy it because those strawberries are incredibly delicious. And I don't know what the recipe is for that shortcake, but it's extremely good. So anybody who's listening to the hotel.

Speaker 1 3:43

I'll tell you the secret.

Speaker 3:46

It's in the spring, right, Keith?

Speaker 1 3:48

Pardon?

Speaker 3:48

It's in the spring.

Speaker 1 3:50

It is in June.

Speaker 3:51

Okay.

Speaker 1 3:52

In June. So off camera, I'll give you the secret to the biscuits.

Speaker 3:56

Oh, okay. Yeah, so June of 27, everyone should be at first um Hartford. And also I'll say about First Hartford, you all have a big anniversary coming up this fall. 175 years of ministry. So um, so that's exciting. It's one of um uh Kate and I looked it up. I think there's one other church that's like a tiny bit older than you. I don't have it right in front of me. I could be misspeaking, but you're like almost the oldest church in the presbytery. So yeah, so it's exciting. So congratulations to First Hartford. So yeah, so other things you want to share about your ministry, what you do, um professional work, um, other things. Uh Jenny, it'd be great to hear a little bit more, maybe also about like like what is campus ministry at Yale. It it has to, I mean, you and I have talked about it a little bit offline, but I know it's very multifaceted at a school like that. And um, and Keith, uh, some of your work as well. So things that you're, you know, about and important to you in those roles.

Campus Ministry And Chaplaincy At Yale

Speaker 3 5:00

Yeah, I'd be happy to share. So it's hard to believe when I'm going into my 10th year uh at Yale and have been, I went to Yale, I'm a graduate of Yale Divinity School and then started this role shortly after that. And so uh I like to say there's there's kind of three prongs of my work. One is serving as a pastor of the university church, and it's an ecumenical church. Uh the students understand it as non-denominational, but as we know, non-denom is kind of its own denomination. And when they hear that, they think electric guitar. And we do not have electric guitar in worship or more of the organ hymn and piano sort. Um, but it's a joy to serve that congregation. It's about uh 60% students, a mix of undergrad and graduate students, postdocs, studying all kinds of things that are beyond my understanding. Um, lots of folks in the sciences, a lot of international students, and then the rest of our congregation, our faculty and staff, and just some community members and retirees. We get about 80 people a week. So we're not gigantic, but just a lovely kind of local congregation that's student focused. And so I'm there on Sunday mornings, um, though I feel connected to First Pres New Haven as well and consider them my home congregation. And then the other parts of my work, I get to focus on serving the graduate students and helping them feel connected to the chaplain's office, both in terms of religious life, if that's something they want to engage with, or lots of questions of meaning and purpose. Who am I? What am I meant to do in the world? Um it means I never get bored because I'm always learning something new. Uh, for the first year, last year, I got to work with the first year med students as they're engaging in anatomy lab and help them as they're navigating, um, working with donors and thinking about questions of life and death and what happens when we die, and you know, how do I respectfully interact um with a body and think about my own body. And so that's been really engaging. Uh, the school of art always has uh thrilling and out there questions about things they're creating at the intersections of religion and art uh and questions they have. And so um getting to really engage with students who some of whom are interested in religion and many of whom um are more interested in questions of meaning and purpose uh is really fun. And then I do a lot of work with LGBTQ students. Um I identify as queer and run an interfaith um LGBTQ group. We have a new queer Muslim group that's gotten off the ground last year, which has been a real joy and a unique space for those students, really the only space most of those students have had, many of them international, um, to gauge, engage in the intersection of those parts of their identity. And so, so yeah, getting to be human with young people in an ever-changing world and helping bring um a friendly Christian face to them. I mean, in many ways, I feel like I operate as a person outside of the church that reminds them that Christians are there to love them and ask bold, open questions and seek to serve and that we aren't um judgmental and scary and um opinionated, um, but more open-hearted. And so that's that's what a lot of my ministry looks like.

Speaker 8:18

Yeah. Yeah, that issue of

Church Trauma And Pastoral Care On Campus

Speaker 8:20

church trauma is huge. So many people are carrying it and have had such negative experiences in church, or um, you know, have heard such negative judgmental things and are really harmed by those experiences that have happened at all different stages, right, of life. And I hear that come up a lot in all of our ministries around the Presbytery and people coming back to church for the first time, or sort of tentatively dipping their toe in the water and carrying harms that have happened to them. And it's just uh I really I'm always so heartbroken when I hear these things because that was never my experience growing up in church. I I grew up in a really welcoming, inclusive congregation and a little naive. Like I didn't know that was going on. Like there was a lot of stuff I didn't know was going on. I just thought it was all like my home church, which is what I think you tend to think, right? But then I began to realize there's all this other stuff going on, you know. And so it's a huge piece of ministry, that issue of welcome and um openness. And I'm really appreciative that so many of our congregations around this presbytery take that really seriously because it's a big piece of how we show up as Presbyterians, is offering something quite different, I think, than what most people think church is. Because unfortunately, I think that church harm story is much more prevalent, which is really horrible to say. Yeah.

Speaker 3 9:43

Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's a real joy uh to be able to when student, you know, they often don't think to ask, but when they do to say, oh, what's your tradition, to tell them I'm Presbyterian. And then I have to explain that it's the PC USA kind. And I like to say, you know, because PC USA, PCA, very confusing, sounds the same. Um, so I always like to say PC USA is a longer title and it's more people because we're including, you know, the the whole of everyone in leadership of my study. Um but but yeah, on that note, I'd say an interesting thing uh we've observed. Um, I mean, there's unfortunately lots of ways that people are experiencing um trauma. But we've had um more and more undergrads and grad students who are coming to us who have chronic illnesses that they've really kept to themselves. And our church tends to be the first time they are wanting to theologically engage in that and feeling comfortable and safe sharing that in a religious framework and thinking about how you know they interact with healing stories and how God shows up in healing when they don't necessarily feel like they ever will actually experience healing. Um, and so that's just been interesting. I'm sure it's happening in our home congregations as well, but is a new area of ministry that we're starting to have more of a focus on.

Speaker 11:02

That's amazing. Yeah, that's also very important and um, you know, a good space to provide other messaging about our faith, right? Um, so important. The other thing I noticed as you were talking was um this thing about working with medical students, right? As they're having these first experiences. And um, when I was doing my CPE training, they brought doctors in every week to talk to us about different areas in the hospital and different issues going on. So we would have like a don a person who worked on um organ donation to like explain that to us as you know, it's sort of the the opposite side of that conversation, right? In different areas, so we could understand them and do our work as chaplains and understand what we were doing and be better educated about all the medical stuff on that side, right? So I think that's such a great back and forth conversation that goes on and again helps care for people so much better. So um a great through line of ministry, Jenny. So thanks.

Speaker 3 12:04

Yeah, here, here the medical professionals they need us too. And they get stuck, stuck in the hospital and in the building. And so anything we can do, I think you know, we we go to the hospital to be present to our patients, but remembering that we're representing um the church and you know, opportunities for them to find meaning outside of the slog that they're in and their work is always good.

Speaker 12:26

It's a lot. It's a lot. I was visiting someone recently, and there were two very goofy therapy dogs going around the floor visiting everyone. But I watched the handlers, they stopped at the nurse's station after they'd gone around. Like the floor was all around the nurses' station, all the that, all the rooms, then the way that hospital was set up, the station was sort of in the middle. And they they definitely had done this many times before, but knew the nurses needed the therapy dogs too. And so after they saw all the patients and visited all the patient rooms, they they have like a time where they like bring them so the nurses can have that. I mean, that's a that's a that's like a child seem ministry from my perspective, these therapy dogs, right? But they these goofy dogs just were like, oh, the best part of the day, we're gonna hang out with the nurses. So those are such important components to all of the work. So thanks, Jenny. Keith, what else do you want to tell us about you know what you do and makes up, you know, how you show

Keith’s Service Work And Pride Outreach

Speaker 13:20

up? I know you do a lot at your church, but also a lot professionally.

Speaker 1 13:24

Wow, thank you. I'm not really sure where to begin. I um I'm I'm listening to Peek and what she's sharing, and I'm thinking about um Presbyterian Promise. And um there was a period where uh she and I were um co-chairs, and um uh we're at the end of July or two-thirds of the way through July, I'm still feeling exhausted from having uh had a Pride season in June. Um so in in terms of my ministry, really, it's just me just being you know my authentic self. Um I'm glad this we kind of started a little bit later. I don't know why I had 715 on my on my calendar. Um, because before I came here, I was um helping out at the uh a food pantry over in um the Forest Park section of of uh Springfield, where we like um like Hands on Hartford, it's uh uh open market, so to speak. Um people come in and and they they really only take what they they need as opposed to being handed a bag of groceries. And and you know, just recently uh the question I could I was kind of given the chicken and egg question, you know, which came comes first, not you know, m me being in service or or the religious component and what you know sort of what drives and why do I do what I do? And and I think the answer I kind of gave is it's just what we do. Um and then you know, you get to f decide what we, who we or what what that that that means. Um so it's uh so continuing to show up and being my my true or trying to be my true authentic self, um, I've kind of gotten connected with the folks of P FLAG up here in Western Mass. And um and you know, initially my intention was like, oh, this would be great for this person, that person, but it it didn't kind of work out that way. And uh um like a lot of the LGBTQ movement, um, the focus tends to be on uh triple trans, chip trans rights and trans protections. And with with this um particular group, as it just turns out, uh the core uh core groups are um parents of of gay gay kids.

Speaker 16:00

Um looks like we lost Keith has paused. Oh go ahead, Keith. Finish up your thought about parents.

Speaker 1 16:11

So there are a lot of uh there are a lot of trans parents within. Did I do something?

Speaker 16:16

You pause for just a brief second. You're fine. Yeah.

Speaker 1 16:19

Um yeah, so the core group of of the organization uh are parents of trans kids, so that tends to be a central focus. So you know, I come in, it's like, yeah, but what about the open, welcoming affirming churches? And so and so like like they themselves, it's like, okay, if this is something that's of interest to me, and I'm going to be a part of this organization, then I'm going to to run with the spacious, and they've been very welcome to that. And you know, hearing uh their uh ideas and other sides and you know, uh the uh intersectionality coming up with. Um so kind of uh a segue in terms of um uh sharing uh the open welcoming and affirming church experiences with um the P FLAG crowd recently during pride to season, um, we I was able to table with MLK at Springfield Pride, which was their first time. And Terry Lynn had every had every intention of um continuing the conversation as an accession meeting um with their elders on what it would um mean to be actually to be open, welcoming, and affirming. So that's I'm really, really super excited about that. Um especially how it kind of just morphed into itself. It didn't feel like I had to drive the bus.

Speaker 17:47

Right, right, yeah.

Speaker 1 17:49

Um, which is really cool. And I think um with that, I I'm gonna pass.

Speaker 17:56

Great. Yeah, and let's circle back to

Presbyterian Promise And LGBTQ Inclusion

Speaker 17:58

that. You know, I we've talked about it a little bit, but for those listening, if if one of you wants to um sort of um just offer some opening information about Presbyterian promise and who they are and how they function in the Presbytery. And I know both of you have been in leadership with them, and um I think that's a really exciting part of this moderatorial team and a first for the Presbytery to have two folks in the LGBTQIA plus community be in leadership at the same time and a good marker of how far we're getting in the church in terms of um inclusion, and that's exciting. And so I'm just but also you Prescering Promise has a long history, right? In the work of this presbytery and the denomination, and so not everybody listening may know it. So if one of one or both of you wants to share some of that, that'd be fantastic, I think.

Speaker 3 18:46

Yeah, I can jump in. It it did hit me how um unremarkable it was, but how meaningful it was when Keith and I were both uh uh when we were at Westminster and Keith and I were standing up there and and you all elected us to be vice moderator and moderator, and it kind of hit me of like, oh my gosh, we're both LGBTQ and we're both here, and we get to do this together. And uh so it was meaningful um to realize that. So thank you for for raising that. But also how you know unnotable and unremarkable it was was also part of what was so delightful that it didn't need to be said. Uh, but I felt it in my heart. Uh Keith, I feel like you were feeling it too as we gave we're we're standing side by side. Umdeed. So, yes, Keith could probably speak to it even better because he's been a member longer, but Presbyterian Promise was originally created in our Presbytery um to help with advocacy around working towards the full inclusion of LGBTQ people in leadership in the Presbyterian church, both in terms of uh marriage and in terms of ordination leadership. And a lot of I am grateful for the hard work of the elders that have come before me that paved the way for uh further queer inclusion in the church. And so Presbyterian Promise is the Presbytery of Southern New England's own nonprofit that functions within our bounds within the Presbytery that initially was started to do that work. And then as the Presbyterian Church changed its understanding of itself and became fully inclusive, we have continued that work. Uh, a lot of our focus is on helping our churches be present to local prides and their local LGBTQ community. It's one thing to be welcoming and affirming when someone walks into your door and you welcome them as a guest. It's another thing to leave your home and go to their home and go to their communities and their gathering places and tell them that you love them and that you care about them. And that's a big focus of our work is helping our churches. Um, you know, it can be easy to miss that pride is coming up and when to register and how to table. And so helping local churches that con uh congregants and pastors be present because a lot of LGBTQ people don't know that there are Christians uh that love them and think that, you know, when they say all are welcome, as a queer person, you often assume there's a catch and there's a caveat. And there are many communities that say all are welcome and they don't mean, you know, they they mean these parts of you are welcome and these aren't. And so I think it can be truly quite shocking and transformational for people to see local churches at Pride from the young, awkward teens to the queer elders who came out, you know, who are 75 and came out two years ago, and this is their pride. It's just a really impactful part of our ministry. And so if you missed Pride this season and want a table with Keith and me and Presbyterian Promise, uh, we would love to have you in the future. Some of the prides continue also, it's not just in June. But in addition to that, we've had two other major focuses. One is our book ministry, which has really grown. And so um, every year for the past couple of years, we have dedicated funds to give away a children's book, a book for teens, and an adult book. That relates to LGBTQ and Christian life. And we give those away for free at Pride. And that's in large part because books save lives. We know the Bible is a book that saves many lives, but having access to literature that helps people feel seen or helps people feel like they can understand their children or their family or their cousin that they don't otherwise understand can be really transformational. And so we have tried to remove the barriers for access and send them to all of our member churches so that they can have them in their own libraries and then give them away. And then I think the third thing where we've really been focused on, as Keith mentioned, is the trans community. I mean, they're just under attack in absolutely despicable and systematic ways that it's already, you know, we know that it's just the canary and the coal coal mine where we're already seeing how the attacks on trans youth and sports is leading to changes for women in sports and testing in the Olympics that's coming out and all kinds of things. And so caring for the trans community because they're a community that deserves our care, but also recognizing that the methods that are being used to ostracize them are just test grounds for further methods to ostracize more people. And so being present as a Christian organization and helping our member churches think about how to be present and loving and stumble and make mistakes and not understand but show up for the trans humans in their midst or the trans humans that might want to be a part of their congregation. And we're seeing a lot of trans people and trans families relocate to Connecticut and Massachusetts and Rhode Island because our states have laws that protect them. And so we're seeing some of our congregations both kind of quietly, um, as a strategically quietly, and also more loudly show support to trans families that are relocating here for safety. And so if people are interested in getting more involved in that work, they should contact us also.

Speaker 24:06

Yeah, and I've also seen just in my time with the Presbytery that we every year have a growing number of um clergy who are either intentionally when we have congregations open for calls coming here in the queer community, and we've also seen some relocation around trans pieces. And um, this is an active conversation in the larger denomination, right? Is that unfortunately some of our presbyteries are in states that are doing things that create a great deal of harm and a great deal of lack of safety, lack of access to medical care, all sorts of things. And so they're seeing the losses. And um, you know, it's also about like where people want to serve in ministry. And so that's that's and that's not something other presbyteries can necessarily control, or we can even control about our states, right? But uh we happen to, as a presbytery, be in states that we're aligned with, um, which is a benefit to the sort of umbrella ministry, right, of the presbytery and all the things that the presbytery does. But um, but it is definitely a thing to be thinking about uh in sort of the broader sense of things, um, for

Books Scarves And Trans Advocacy

Speaker 25:19

sure. And for so long, unfortunately, we were so focused in the Presbyterian Church on this legislative change in our book of order and our constitution around inclusion on ordination and marriage. Um, and it's amazing. I think back to it, it was the 2010 General Assembly that passed um ordination equality to get it to the presbyteries for ratification over the next nine months, and it was 2014 for marriage. And it's, you know, as you were saying about the presbytery meeting, you know, that it was both extraordinary and ordinary at the same time, you and Keith being elected together. I feel that way about those assemblies. Like it feels like it was yesterday, and it also feels like it was a million years ago now, right? And I know how much work that was to get there, um, and how much time and energy all of us were pouring into that, along with Prez Welcome in all sorts of spaces around the denomination and the toll that that took. And so I think that's been, I've noticed an important piece of the ministry is caring for those elders who put that time in. And um many of us, you know, carry those memories and have experienced, you know, what it took to do that. And so I think it's really um, it's such shared work. And we're, and we are still in those early stages of that inclusion work in the church. It's only been 70 years since we've ordained women in the Presbyterian church, which seems like also like yesterday and forever, also, but it's still so new, and we're hearing still the stories of harm just for clergy women, right? So it's going to continue and continue to need that reparative work, but also that forward thinking like, what's the next step? And how do we actually like do ministry in the context that we're in now and do it with joy and excitement? That stuff about the book ministry and pride, and also helping new congregations that come to their first pride step into the work and sort of like being available at all levels of the stream, right, is so important in all of these pieces. So that's one of the things I appreciate so deeply about what Preston Welcome has been uh doing. Promise, sorry, promise, promise, has been doing. It's such a big uh piece of just showing us those ways forward.

Speaker 1 27:35

It's it's um really uh it's energizing. But just by coincidence, I happen to be rereading Jack Rogers' book, uh Jesus Bible and homosexuality. And and like you said, I'm reading oh, this revised edition was published in 2009, and yet it feels like yesterday, yet so long ago. And another thing that um Presbyterian Promises has known for from we also do a uh distribution of scarves that uh members uh hand knit and crochet from for us, both um rainbow and uh trans scarves. Um these these initially the rainbow scarves in particular came from um back when we were fighting for ordination rights and were worn at General Assembly when we were trying to overturn G G. And um and they've become a part a symbol of um LGBTQ, you know, pride and solidarity. So when um we we hang them up in in our at our booths, and if somebody is interested in the rainbow trans scarves, um you know we present it to them, and it was a blessing that uh this scarf has been uh knitted, presented in support of LGBTQ or some ministries, and please you know wear it with pride. So um it's yeah, it's truly uh a really exciting time still because um we still have folks who come to the event and thank us for representing uh the churches, but we have folks that go. I I didn't know. I think it's amazing to hear um at all, uh especially of the young young kids. You know, I didn't know. I didn't know.

Speaker 29:25

Right. Yeah, that's what oh go ahead, Jenny. Go ahead.

Speaker 3 29:28

Just to just to add to that, at West Hartford Pride two years ago, I think there was a teenager who approached us who a trans teenager who was probably 15, maybe 16, and said, Oh my gosh, I got that scarf from you last year and it's been hanging above my bed all year. And you think about you know, it's June, it's hot, who wants a scarf? Um but as we know, um, blessings and stories have meaning. And so the fact that these scarves get to pass on um stories of resistance of our tradition, but can become stories of identity and hope and resistance, uh, that a you know, delightfully awkward, uh, shy teenager would come up and say, Hey, I have one of those. Thank you so much. It's hanging above my bed. Again, I think just speaks to these moments are truly transformational. Um, my first pride, I'll never forget in Denver as a college student. I was given a rainbow cross by a church, and I still have that rainbow cross, and that was, you know, however many years ago. And so I think just not underestimating the power we have when we step out of our church walls and be the church to people is amazing.

Speaker 30:43

Yeah, and I was I was packing for General Assembly month like a month and a half ago and um came across in my office. I still have my rainbow stole or you know, scarf stole from General Assembly that, you know, we just wore them so much at General Assembly for so many years as providing that physical witness of, you know, who is involved and invested in inclusion, right, in the church and the next step of our ministry. And so um, you know, just uh those they're ubiquitous, they're around the church and uh getting them beyond the church is really important too. Um and I also love that phrase, I more light presbyterians is like, you know, the national umbrella advocacy organization. And I just love that idea of more light, like we're always getting more light into the church. And the church, it's that idea of our reformation, but we're constantly in that process every stream, every generation. There's always something related to more light in the church. I think it's such an appropriate name. The more, the longer I go in ministry, the more I love that name of that organization. Because I feel like it's it's both very descriptive, but it's also a name that is um invitational and calling and a reminder of calling. And I just it it

Leading With Robert’s Rules And Connection

Speaker 32:00

has more meaning to me, I find, the longer I go in through ministry. Um so thinking about these themes and these streams of ministry for you, what's exciting to you as you step into these roles as moderator and vice moderator and um the next uh year or two of your leadership in the Presbytery and how you imagine things and your hopes and dreams? Like, how does where do these things inform that leadership that you're stepping into?

Speaker 1 32:28

No idea. No clue. Out outside of getting to work alongside Peek once again. I you know, I I do have this fascination with Robert's rules of order. And that's what I'm sticking with. You know, I'm looking forward to the the moderators conference and and delving into the book of order and and gaining this knowledge, and and like I said, I I I have this fascination with Robert's little order, so go presbyties.

Speaker 3 33:09

I will say the moderate the moderator conference made me appreciate Robert's rules um much more than I think going in. Um not that I didn't appreciate them, but I definitely underappreciated them. Uh, and the ways that it does speak to the value of our church of how we seek to include everyone's voices and have guardrails and protection so that that is in place. And of course, any system can be, you know, monopolized by some and and and weaponized in certain ways, um, but really educating myself more deeply on Robert's rules and part just out of fear of how to leave the meetings. Well, I've really come to appreciate some of the values that undergird our tradition and how we seek to, you know, in the best versions of ourselves when we're not rushing through meetings for the sake of them being over, but really using our meetings to state our values and consider our values and spend time together and do the work of the presbytery in a connectional way, um, that it's quite powerful. And I think for me, Presbyterian meetings feel more like homecoming. Um I think, especially because I serve an ecumenical church, I'm not in a Presbyterian space uh very frequently, quite frankly, other than when I'm engaging with the Presbytery, that seeing um both colleagues, fellow pastors and chaplains, and also congregants and elders who I've come to cherish and get to know over the years, and then meeting new people and having their new ideas, that it really is a source that like generates energy within me and helps me feel connected to this tradition. I grew up Baptist, I found the Presbyterians in college. And so um for me, it's engaging with this identity that I've that I chose and that claimed me. And um I think in ministry, so so much of the world, we are encouraged to kind of go it alone. It's a very American, you know, value to uh just figure it out and pull yourself up by your bootstraps and and go it alone. And to me, Presbyterian meetings at their best are the reminder that we true that you cannot be a Christian and go it alone. Um it's when two or three are gathered that we can best hear the spirit and best access our own hearts, even um and uh and do do the work of the church. And so um getting to serve, say saying yes to vice moderator and moderator, I think is my way of giving back to that and also recognizing that I think since COVID, there's been a lot of burnout of leadership, and so um how important it is to say yes when we can, so that also then when others are saying yes, we can step back. And so this felt like a season in life where I could say yes, um, knowing that there'll be a season coming up where I can say no and that we all can kind of participate in that together.

Speaker 36:13

Oh, I I agree. And it's um you know, I noticed that fellowship time at our meetings is so important to everyone. And we we're increasingly building more time for that in. And even as we build more time, it's never enough, right? And so that that need to uh come together and to connect with each other and to just get to know each other, and uh especially there's always new people coming into the presbytery, right? And so there's always somebody new at the table to to meet at the meal or something like that. So I think it's

October 3 Fellowship Day At MLK

Speaker 36:48

really great. We're gonna have some, we're gonna have an elongated meeting. Um, I'll just put in a plug for October 3rd meeting, which is gonna be no business, um, part one of our October meeting, but it's gonna be an entire day of training and fellowship and celebration and learning at our MLK congregation. We are first time back in that space since the arson. And Jimmy Hawkins is coming from our national office, um, from the Office of Advocacy to be with us. And I think it's gonna be a really exciting day to just completely have a whole day of just togetherness, um, which is exciting, and also to build ourselves up for the work we have in front of us that's shared of showing up in as best of a way as we can in the world that we're in, right? Um, and sort of fueling us for that work and training us some. So I'm excited that we're gonna have we're setting aside a whole day for that this fall as a Presbytery. So that's exciting too. So it's a plan to be. It is gonna be fun. I think it's gonna be a really fun meeting. Um, and um I'm excited. It's you know, we're still got almost two months, but it's I'm really looking forward to that meeting.

Broadway Mysteries And The Year Ahead

Speaker 38:00

So as we close up, just like general stuff like what do you all do for fun, hobbies, interests, other stuff to just share? Anything interesting, fun that you want to tell us about or know about as everybody works with you over the next uh period of time of leadership. Anything to do?

Speaker 3 38:22

Do I refer to show me too?

Speaker 1 38:24

I don't have anything new to report. Well, well, you you you know, you two know I'm a huge New York Yankees fan, but you know, go next. Um but next to a music share. And and Peek knows that I I'm an avid reader, but uh, but I tend to leave lean towards um mysteries. So this is for all of you out in podcast viewing land who haven't heard this, who haven't heard this before.

Speaker 38:52

Mysteries are good, yes.

Speaker 3 38:55

Keith has turned me on to some good books, so he he's a good recommender.

Speaker 38:58

Oh, yeah. We should have like a column, Keith, in the newsletter, like Keith recommended mysteries, like binge reading from Keith or something. Yeah, we can find something fun to do with that. That would be fun.

Speaker 1 39:10

Yeah, yeah, yes, yes. Yeah, some book notes. I'm writing this down.

Speaker 39:15

Yeah, I'm no, I'm serious. It'd be fun to do something like that. Yeah.

Speaker 3 39:20

I think for for myself, um, as as some of you know, I'm getting ready to become a mom of two and have a baby on the way due in two weeks from now, August 5th. I'm not sure when this will get posted. So um, I think motherhood is something a muscle I'm gonna be actively engaging even more um uh in in the coming time. And I'm deeply grateful for Keith uh for for some coverage in the beginning. Again, when I said yes uh to being moderator, I knew this was a risk, but it still felt like the right yes. And um, knowing that Keith would be beside me, I was like, okay, it'll be fine. Uh and I think outside of that and in the midst of that, um I'm a big musical lover. So I think if if ever anyone wants to get into theological conversations about what's happening on Broadway, I'm down, sign me up. Um, and just thinking about how the arts you know can generate some of my many of my best sermons come after seeing a show and a play, and how that just tugs at our imagination in a completely different way. And um, you know, so much of Jesus' work was through metaphor and storytelling. And so getting to engage with that in the real world um with sources that aren't generated uh by me and just getting to see other people do do what they love um is something I enjoy. So if we ever want to have a Presbyterian night out for a show, uh that'd be great.

Speaker 40:51

That would be fun. I love going to shows on Broadway. So um when I was growing up, that was always my birthday present from my godmother was I could pick a show. And uh so we would go see a different one almost every year. And that was always my birthday gift was like an experience day in the city to go see a show and and then talk about it and everything. And um wow. It was a it's just a great birthday gift to get every year. It's the gift of living near the city, right? You know, is um, but there's theater everywhere, but we have sort of a fun access point, right, in this zone of the country, which I always appreciate. Um, that's why I hover around New York City on one of the reasons, right? Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to this year. I think it's gonna be fantastic. And, you know, and Jenny, of course, previous moderators get pressed into service when we have gaps, you know, sometimes. So who knows, you know, two, three years from now, a moderator might need your help with something, you know, and you duck back in. And like you said, it's we trade these things on and off. And, you know, we have to do that sometimes. And um I I like that that team energy of ministry that we fill in. Sometimes we step in for each other when there's an emergency, or we uh, you know, fill in or do something else, and and that ability to go back and forth and uh share each other's ministries, I think is another gift in the church of connectionality that we have. So um, you know, we're gonna do it for you for the next few months, and you're gonna do it for someone else sometime in the future. We don't know when, but we know it'll happen because it always happens. And that's just the gift of being in this denomination together, is we really do try to share those ministries with each other and walk with each other. So um I've had people fill in for me on planned times and unplanned times, and um, it's it's a gift, right? For us to be able to do that for each other. And uh, Keith, for you to be, you know, right there for Jenny over the next few months, which is fabulous. And you guys to be a great team already before you even come into this work together. So I think we have a multiplicity of gifts as we come into this new term for the Presbytery. So I'm so grateful for both of you for saying yes to serving and looking forward to your leadership and um all the things that will come, things we know are gonna come and things that are not on our plate, but we'll figure it out as we go. So it's exciting. And I'm just so grateful for both of you being here with us today and also taking some time to record this podcast uh so that the larger Presbytery can just hear a little bit of our conversation with each other. So welcome to the year, and we're looking forward to it. And thanks for being part of Connecting Our Conversations. Thank you.