
Warfare of Art & Law Podcast
Warfare of Art and Law Podcast sparks conversation about the intriguing – and sometimes infuriating – stories that arise in the worlds of art and law with artist and attorney Stephanie Drawdy.
Warfare of Art & Law Podcast
Victoria and Albert Museum's Provenance and Spoliation Curator: Dr. Jacques Schuhmacher on Provenance Research, Art Restitution and the Role of Museums
Below is the email for Dr. Jacques Schuhmacher:
j.schuhmacher@vam.ac.uk
The following is a link for more information on the Victoria & Albert Museum's Concealed Histories Exhibit.
SHOW NOTES
3:30 importance of provenance research regarding potential for Nazi-looted art in collections outside of countries that had been occupied by the Nazis
7:35 provenance gaps in Gilbert Collection didn’t raise concerns when the Gilberts were acquiring the collection;
9:40 Nazi-looted art found in U.S. collections in the 1990s, making this an issue for the international art market
10:55 Unclear provenance of snuffbox from Gutmann Collection
15:50 massive red flags raised by some objects like the Louis XVI enameled gold snuffbox looted from Maximilian von Goldschmidt-Rothschild
18:30 Decisions about restitution of looted art are not made by UK museums but by a panel of experts
19:45 The only restitution to date by the V&A has been of Meissen pieces.
22:05 even after Monuments Men joined the museum, an unbroken chain in provenance was not necessary; acquisition protocol in the U.K. didn’t change until 1998
23:40 Deaccession laws in the UK under the Heritage Act were changed with the U.K.’s Holocaust Act 2009
35:30 no claims for works in the Gilbert Collection
37:35 Victoria & Albert Musuem’s Concealed Histories.
38:38 Magdala1868 exhibition of Ethiopian cultural objects inspired V&A’sConcealed Histories.
41:35 MacKenzie Mallon with the Nelson-Atkins Museum had put on the Discriminating Thieves exhibition, which was a huge inspiration for V&A’s Concealed Histories.
42:50 Provenance research into Nazi-looted art detached from other types of provenance research
44:45 Ethiopian Embassy negotiations for return of objects looted during Colonial era
45:00 Long-term loans used to return work that is subject to deaccession laws; example being long term loan of silver item stolen during church festival in Spain
46:45 In 1999, discovered that V&A had bought in 1950s a silver item without realizing it was stolen in the 1890s in Spain; object has been on long-term loan since 2005
48:25 Gilbert collection is on 100+ years long term loan
50:00 Museum Association guidelines for restitution claims being updated
51:15 Virtual loans
52:49 Notion of digital restitution
54:30 upcoming provenance research handbook for researchers in English-speaking countries
57:30 idea of a mega-website arose from the 1998 Washington Conference to allow cross-referencing to identify objects
58:35 no replacement for archival research
1:01:50 provenance research includes newly acquired objects, loaned objects and objects for which questions are raised
1:05:15 He studied history and did PhD in German/Allied war crimes then worked at London’s Commission for Looted Art
1:07:50 Student inquiries about provenance research welcome
Please share your comments and/or questions at stephanie@warfareofartandlaw.com
Music by Toulme.
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Thanks so much for listening!
© Stephanie Drawdy [2025]