RSBC Unseen

For nearly two centuries, the Royal Society for Blind Children (RSBC) has been supporting blind and partially sighted children, young people, and their families. RSBC Unseen amplifies the voices of the RSBC Youth Forum, a group of young people who want to bring about positive change for other vision impaired young people and raise awareness of vision impairment. Join us and listen to blind and partially sighted young people's real, lived experiences.

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RSBC Unseen

RSBC Unseen Episode 06 - Tech Mates

June 25, 2025 • Royal Society For Blind Children • Season 4 • Episode 6

Join Tech Mates Alex and Juliette as they chat all things Braille! From learning journeys to their favourite devices, with a race thrown in for good measure! You'll learn about how Braille and technology go hand in hand and help vision impaired people access their devices.

Juliette Parfitt 0:00

Hi and welcome to the Rsbc unseen podcast. This is the tech mate Braille edition. My name is Juliette, and I work here at Rsbc. I'm joined by my colleague, Alex,

Alex Man 0:11

Hello.

Juliette Parfitt 0:12

Who's our What's your job title,

Alex Man 0:13

senior accessibility advisor. But I think that's a bit true.

Juliette Parfitt 0:16

I never remember that. But you know,

Alex Man 0:19

tech guy, tech support

Juliette Parfitt 0:21

tech dude

Alex Man 0:22

tech guru.

Juliette Parfitt 0:23

He's my tech mate.

Alex Man 0:24

Yeah, tech mate,

Juliette Parfitt 0:25

my tech mate. Alex, today we're going to be talking to you about Braille and Braille technology, the devices we use, the things we like about them, the benefits, all that good stuff. So let's jump straight in. Alex, do you want to talk to me a little bit about your sort of Braille learning journey, because yours and mine are very different.

Alex Man 0:44

Yeah, very, very different. So I was introduced Braille at the age of six, probably because the teachers saw me screen squinting at large print, and it was like, size 72 and they were like, Okay, well, you're killing trees.

Juliette Parfitt 1:02

This is like half a word per page. This is not it's not sustainable.

Alex Man 1:06

You're killing trees. You're super slow and your eyes probably getting tired. So this is not working. Let's get you into Braille. This is before computers. Well, well, it's not before computers. Be fore our school had computers.

Juliette Parfitt 1:18

You're an old man

Alex Man 1:19

I'm not that old, so, yeah, they put me on to braille, and I did grade one, which was, I think that's the standard, although I have came across people who just don't do grade one anymore and just skip to grade two, which I kind of agree, and I don't know why, but

Juliette Parfitt 1:36

so for a little bit of context with Braille, there's grade one, aka uncontracted, and grade two, aka contracted. So grade one, how it works is, it is like, for like, like text. So if you have the word um

Alex Man 1:50

About

Juliette Parfitt 1:50

so if you have the word about, you would rate write it like you would in print. So A, B, O, U, T, um, that would be grade one Braille. If you have it in grade two, there's actually a lot of words have, like, short forms. It's like a code. So the word about in Braille in Grade Two, if you write the words A, B, then I would read that, and I would know that that was about, if that makes sense. There's lots of we call them sort of contractions and short forms and word signs and things like that. Maybe that's something we can do different podcast episode on in the future.

Alex Man 2:21

Yeah. TLDR

Juliette Parfitt 2:22

TLDR, won't make you listen to it now. So, yeah. So you started with grade one, and then did you move on to grade two after you, you learnt your letters and your numbers

Alex Man 2:32

exactly, my ABCs and the cat sat on the mats that kind of stuff. Yeah. At the age of 11, I, you know, sort of stopped using braille because, you know, I was like, oh, screen reader exists. So why do I need to my small brain was just like, well, small, smaller brain was like, thinking, I'm not going to use this dying language. What's more likely someone, I go to someone's place and they have a Braille machine or they have a computer? Why do I need Braille? I don't need this. So yeah, I was like, Oh, very unlikely for me to come across someone who has a Braille machine, or what's more likely, they're having a computer or having a Braille machine. So I was like, I don't need it. It's fine. So for a few years, I didn't really use Braille, and I think that made it really difficult for me learning spelling and grammar, because without feeling how a word is spelt, or, you know, physically knowing you don't learn the spelling and learn how certain sentences are structured and stuff. So my grammar is terrible. My spelling is terrible. So if you ask me, oh, how do you spell this or that? Yeah, I don't. I don't come across it very often so

Juliette Parfitt 3:45

because I think in English, a lot of words sound the same, spelt different, or like, spelt different, sound the same, and it's just like, actually, Braille, really, if you can't see print, Braille will give you proper literacy. Like, I'm kind of, we've talked about this before, Alex, but I'm kind of hard line on that sort of thing where I'm like, if someone's like, Oh, does my child, who can't use print, need to learn braille? I'm always like, Absolutely, if you want your child to be fully literate, yes, yes, they do.

Alex Man 4:12

Yeah. I wish someone was there to just like, push me back and say, No, you need to learn it. I think my teacher was like, Oh, you don't want to learn it? Okay, fine, less work for me.

Juliette Parfitt 4:23

You get that a lot, I think, of like our generation.

Alex Man 4:26

Yeah, So from then, like from the age of 18, I think onwards, where iOS comes out with their Braille screen input. And there used to be a keyboard called, still available, but I don't really use it that often, called MBraille. I was like, Oh, I can type Braille. Yeah, it's an app. So it's like a third party keyboard that you can install on your phone, and it's like Braille screen input. So we'll demo Braille screen input later on in the episode. It's quite good. Got a whole section on that. Yeah, exactly. So look out for that. So, When I found out that was a feature, I was like, Oh, I can type a lot accurate and a lot faster. And what I learned, you know, a decade ago, it was still relevant. I was like, yes, let's do this. So I'm still using this, and unfortunately, I'm still not reading as much as I should. But that's also changed because I've got a new braille device which

Juliette Parfitt 5:19

but you're making it work for you, though, like, you still writing, I mean, I can say, as a voiceover user typing on a keyboard with, like, a QWERTY keyboard on VoiceOver. Like, it's fine, but it is so annoying. Whereas, like, Braille screen input and do it, I was it's so it's the only way I really write on my phone now. But

Alex Man 5:37

we should time it and see how fast we go.

Juliette Parfitt 5:39

We're gonna have a race.

Alex Man 5:40

Yeah. So how's your journey?

Juliette Parfitt 5:43

So my learning journey was, yeah, quite different from yours. So I had more vision when I was younger, so I was visually impaired, but I could kind of read fairly standard print a lot of the time. I didn't need much adaption. But as I sort of was in my mid 20s, and my eyesight was getting worse. I started to think, Oh, should I learn braille? Should I not? Will I need it? I sort of ummed an odd for a bit, and I was a bit nervous, but I was like, No, I really might need this. Like, I think it's a good shout to learn it. But then I discovered that there's just not that many classes for adults, and no one is obliged to teach you. So I realised I was going to have to, just like, Pull my finger out and teach myself. So I got the RNIB fingerprint course. So it comes in, like, about a dozen volumes of like, embossed braille, and you work through it. I had a CD with, like, audio instructions. It had like, a written version of the instructions as well. So it was like, super, super accessible when I learned braille. So, so the fingerprint course, it teaches you to read and write Braille by touch. So the main thing I had to consider was, how will I practice my writing? Because I didn't have a brailler, and they're like, 800 pounds, so I wasn't going to buy one. But then someone recommended me a piece of software called perkyduck by Duxbury, who are like a braille translation software company, and it's just like, it's like the notepad version of Braille. It's like you can make little rough Braille files. So I did all my writing practices on that, because that was free on my laptop, and I had enough sight to do it at the time, so I worked my way through that course. I did it in, like, a few months, but I wasn't working at the time, so I did actually have the time to dedicate to it, and I found it like I thought it was going to be really depressing to have to learn braille. I was a bit like, is this going to make me sad? Like, I wasn't sure. But actually, I really, really, really enjoyed the process. It made me feel kind of empowered. I was like, okay, so I yeah, I may not be able to read print in the future, but I've given myself this tool that I will be able to read something somehow, like, it made me feel really, like, comforted, almost. So I worked my way through that. And then it actually I, because I taught myself Braille. I got a job teaching school aged children braille, and I did that for a few years. So it got me a job, which was awesome. And I loved doing the teaching. And then, and then I did actually lose the rest of my eyesight. And then one of the things I did after I was sort of recovering from that, was read a whole book in Braille on my on my like, on my Kindle app with my Braille display. And I was like, Oh, cool. I like, haven't got to transition. I've just, I'm just here I can. There is no there's no awkwardness between these two. There's no Jolt from, like, Oh God, I need to learn this thing now. It's like, I've done it. I'm ready. So I was a little bit like, proud of myself, I have to say, but yeah, I had to teach myself as an adult, which is, is definitely different, I think, from from someone coming along to help you and I, I wish there was more provision for adult Braille learners. I think there's a lot more now than there was even when I was doing it, sort of six or seven years ago. But yeah, that was kind of how I learned. So yeah, I think we, we had very different journeys. But I mean, we both, we both got there.

Juliette Parfitt 9:12

So we're going to talk a little bit now about the devices that we use to access technology with Braille. So I think with Braille, sometimes there's a bit of a misconception still that it's kind of these piles of paper and these massive volumes Braille books that are sort of 20 volumes and everything. And we only make our Braille on a Perkins Braille, which is looks like this kind of old fashioned typewriter and those things, you know, you can still get Braille books. The Perkins still exists and is a vital sort of tool. I have one, Alex, you have one, don't you? And they're really, like, great for brailling up some paper Braille super quickly,

Alex Man 9:49

labels as well.

Juliette Parfitt 9:50

Labels, yeah, lists, anything like that. We just need a couple of pages. But Braille has leapt into the 21st Century, and we have devices such as Braille displays that we can use. Um, with our technology like computers and smartphones. So a Braille display is, um, there's loads of different makes and models. You're going to hear Alex talking a little bit in a minute about the ones that we use. But in general, a Braille display is something that has generally, like a Braille keyboard on it. But um, a Braille display normally, it has the uh, Braille keys on it. So you can write Braille, and then it has a line of Braille cells where it has like electronic Braille come up. So as you write your Braille, or as Braille appears on your computer or your phone screen, the cells will reflect the Braille electronically, and it will change as you kind of read through it. So you can use it to read like WhatsApp, if you're on a computer, you can use it to read a word document and edit that document and move the cursor around. So it really gives a lot of flexibility. So that's kind of your basic Braille display. There's lots of different kinds and lots of different sizes and makes, but yeah, we'll kind of chat you through what Alex and I personally use. So yeah, Allypally, what? What are your devices that you use your Braille tech?

Alex Man 11:02

So I used to have a Braille notes from Handy tech for a German, German company. That was really fun, but then you told me off and said, why using such an old device for eight years old

Juliette Parfitt 11:12

fifteen years old!

Alex Man 11:13

eight years old! So I sort of haven't moved on with Braille tech. So I'm currently using a brailliant 20 from Humanware. And humanware, you know, a brilliant company for Braille tech. And it's a 20 cell device. So it's really small, very portable. It can fit in a really big, like maybe a big, bigger pocket, not jeans pocket, so you can take it around everywhere. The battery is really good. It's sort of like a pen and paper for blind people or Braillist.

Juliette Parfitt 11:47

I've got a braillaint 20 as well, and it is basically my notepad. I would be lost without it. And because it's so portable, you can chuck it in a bag,

Alex Man 11:55

yeah. And if you even a pocket, if you want something a little bigger, there is a 40 version as well, which is pretty cool.

Juliette Parfitt 12:01

There's an 80 version as well. You know?

Alex Man 12:02

really? I did not know that

Juliette Parfitt 12:03

It's very long, but yeah. So there's 80 cells, so you can fit very long Braille sentences on it to scroll.

Alex Man 12:09

Yeah. So on that device, you can obviously type, hence the note taking, but also read a book if you wanted to, and also you can connect it to a computer to read what your screen reader is reading. So a lot of programmers and people doing maths really likes that also connect to your iPhone or iPad. So I sometimes do that if I'm, you know, want to type on my iPad or read a book from my iPad rather than directly.

Juliette Parfitt 12:38

Yeah. So yeah, I use a brilliant 20 as well, like Alex, but I also use a mantis Q 40, which is another humanware device. We are, we're pretty much we are humanware fanboys Alex and I, and the that's got 40 Braille cells. But the main difference between that and the other devices we mentioned is it's got a QWERTY keyboard, so I use that with my computer for the most part, and it just means that I can use the same keyboard shortcuts for screen readers without having to learn a different set or use two different kinds of keyboards. I love it. It's amazing. I am currently sitting here reading my notes off of it in this room. So yeah, it is brilliant. And I, like Alex, also use Braille screen input, but more on that.

Juliette Parfitt 13:25

So these devices that Alex and I were talking about, we got through access to work. So we got them as part of our job roles, because we knew we'd need them. You can also get technology like this funded through Disabled Students Allowance as well, because braille displays can be quite expensive. So it helps, like with these schemes, to get them funded, but we have got a couple slightly more affordable options. We're going to just touch on quickly. So one of them is the orbit 20. I think there's an orbit 40, either out or forthcoming, which is exactly the same as these braille displays, but it's there's elements of it that are a little bit more simple, just a little bit different, that actually make it a lot more affordable. So that's a really great option. Quite a lot of people have orbits. A lot of charities actually do grants where you can get an orbit. And it was, that was my first Braille display, yeah, so, and it was really great if you're it's good if you can't afford the more expensive ones. But it's also really good for me. I wasn't sure if I wanted to spend the money, how much I would use a Braille display. So to have the opportunity to have one for a while and be like, Oh, I use it for this, and I wouldn't use it for that, it was really great to then when I bought one, I was really sure of when I bought my own brailliant 20 and I was really sure that I would use it. So it gave me a little bit more confidence, because spending a lot of money could be quite scary. So it made me less concerned. And then something else that's like a little bit different from a Braille display, is the hable one, which is a little Braille keyboard. It's about the size of a smartphone. It's really teeny, tiny. It is essentially a keyboard for a phone. I think you can hook it up to your tablets as well, but it is designed with using your phone in mind. So you Bluetooth it and you, it interacts with your phone. There's loads of different keyboard commands. The idea behind it as well is that actually you can leave your phone in your phone in your pocket, and it can kind of remotely unlock your phone for you, and you can do everything on it, if you can hear your phone, if you've got a headphone in, you can do everything that you want to do with the hable keyboard. They are pretty nifty, and they're really nice again, if you find writing on a quality really frustrating or just using a touch screen, just a bit cumbersome with VoiceOver, because I know some people do, so the table is quite good, and that's a lot more affordable as well. And it's a nice little sort of between. It's very practical. I used one for a little bit, and I found it like really practical, but it is very similar to an inbuilt feature on Apple devices called Braille screen input. I want to do a quick shout out. There is an android version

Alex Man 16:11

Think it's

Juliette Parfitt 16:11

that I can't remember the name of

Alex Man 16:12

Braille touch, or,

Juliette Parfitt 16:16

yeah,

Alex Man 16:17

talk Braille. No, I think it's Braille touch.

Juliette Parfitt 16:20

Yeah, there's something. There is a version of this on Android devices. But full honesty, Alex and I are both Apple users. We find it accessible. We love it. We do not use Android, so we cannot comment on it. Sorry, don't come at us in the comments. So we're going to talk about Braille screen input exclusively, which is the Apple version of this. So, Alex, do you want to explain a little bit of an overview what BSI is?

Alex Man 16:49

So it turns your phone or tablet into a Braille note taker, not a Braille display, because that's physically impossible. But yeah, so basically, you hold your phone in a certain way. So in this case, you would hold the phone with the screen away from you, so your fingers are wrapped around the top and the bottom, so you're sort of like a gaming controller, but with the screen, the screen facing away from you, so the cameras towards your tummy, and then from there, you put three fingers on each side of the phone, so up and down, and that simulates Braille keystrokes. So for example, if I was going to do a it's normally dot one with my left index finger, I would just tap my left index finger on the screen, and that will do an A. And if I wanted to do a B, I'll put two fingers, which is a one and two, so my left index and middle finger, tap that on the screen, and it registers a B. And from that, so supports grade one and grade two as well. So from that, you can type quite quick in grade one, but even faster with grade two.

Juliette Parfitt 18:00

You can also, you can hold it away from yourself, like that. They call it away mode. There's also

Alex Man 18:07

Piano mode, i think

Alex Man 18:08

tabletop

Juliette Parfitt 18:08

tabletop! yeah, there's also tabletop mode. So if you prefer to have your fingers more along in a line horizontally, you can place it flat, and you can write a little bit more normally, because I know some people find the switch of twisting their hands a bit weird. I quite like it, but I know it's a bit of a weird adjustment for some

Alex Man 18:30

horizontal versus vertical Braille. It's, yeah.

Juliette Parfitt 18:33

But the great thing about away mode is

Juliette Parfitt 18:35

basically, because you will hold your phone really securely, it means you can use it out and about. You don't need a tabletop to rest on to write Braille. You can just do it out and about. Okay, so to show how much quicker Braille screen input can be compared to using Qwerty with VoiceOver, Alex and I are going to have a little race

Alex Man 18:54

destroy me.

Juliette Parfitt 18:55

I'm going to crush you. We've just paused recording to spend about 10 minutes debating what sentence to write. And I was just like, you know, it doesn't matter, either way. Alex can matter either way, Alex, because I'm gonna win. So I will be doing Braille screen input, and Alex and grade two braille, and Alex will be doing QWERTY keyboard voiceover. So the sentence we're going to be writing is, hello, podcast listeners. We hope you're having a great day. Ready? Steady, Go!