Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to another episode of Investors big and small and consumers start paying much more attention to the dirt slash soil underneath our feet. Before we get started, I've been recording these interviews next to my day job and I will definitely continue to do so and release about an episode a month. But at the same time, I would love to take this further, share more interviews. There are many more stories to share on investing in regenerative food and agriculture. More depth, improve the quality, maybe even doing some video series. So I started a Patreon community, which makes it easy to support creators like myself. If these podcasts have been of value to you and if you have the means, I invite you to to support me and make this happen. For more information, please find a link to my Patreon account in the description below. And now, without further ado, the interview. Enjoy! Welcome to Investing in Regenerative Agriculture, investing as if the planet mattered. In these interviews, I'm talking to people who are scaling up the regenerative agriculture sector, either by increasing the inflow of investment capital or by scaling up the enterprises on and in the ground. And by doing so, exploring what it means to be an impact investor in regenerative agriculture. Why my focus on regenerative agriculture? Because the roots of so many of the issues we're facing in the world today can be found in agriculture. From droughts, migrant flow, You're going to listen to an interview with Ethan Soloviev. We talked about how some consumer companies are taking the lead, like Dr. Bronner's and Patagonia, and how the awareness for regenerative agriculture has grown so much in the last year and keeps growing and what the demand for regenerative ingredients from cosmetic companies actually means for farmers. Plus a lot more. Enjoy! So welcome to Investing in Regenerative Agriculture. I'm Koen van Zijn, your host, and in the podcast of today I'm joined by Ethan Solovev. Ethan is an international expert on regenerative agriculture, a farmer, writer and the vice president of research at HowGood. He's the author of Regenerative Enterprise, Regenerative Agriculture Redefined and the Levels of Regenerative Agriculture. As an international consultant and speaker, Ethan has helped design and fund more than 3,000 acres of regenerative agriculture in 34 countries. He and his family farm a diversified 32 acres in New York, producing apples, sheep, mushrooms, eggs, and specialty crops. Welcome, Ethan.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Glad to be here.
SPEAKER_01So to ask a personal question, which I love to start with, because many people I interview in this podcast series could be doing something else. They're coming from big banks, they come from big farms, they come from completely different sectors, but they end up in the regenerative agriculture sector. For you, how did you end up in the regenerative agriculture sector and what's your passion that got you here?
SPEAKER_00Some of my earliest memories are actually climbing in an apple tree in the backyard of my house. And now you're running a diversified apple farm. It was a long route to get here. I studied biochemistry in college and was in the laboratory and on computers. And by the end of university, I wanted something totally different. I had a biology degree in my hand. but I had never studied anything bigger than a fruit fly. And so I went out for and received this fellowship that provided for a year of travel and research focused on apples. And so I studied in Sweden, Kazakhstan, Japan, New Zealand, Chile, looking at the global diversity of apples all over the world, the genetic diversity at a biochemical level, the food diversity, how different people cook and eat and drink apples and the agricultural diversity, the difference in growing in all different places. Along the way, I was terminally infected with permaculture in New Zealand and when I got back to my home after a year of travel, I took a permaculture design course and dove right in. I started a permaculture consulting firm doing ecological sustainable design work work starting at a small scale but then building up until we were doing 100 acre 200 acre 300 acre farms integrated with developments and really just always looking for what I thought at that point was the leverage point where I could do a little bit of work and produce a huge amount of change for the world and what was that leverage
SPEAKER_01point at that point well I thought at that point because I sense a change
SPEAKER_00yeah I thought at that point it was going to be doing designs and helping people turn their land into productive, regenerative landscapes. But what I figured out is that as a consultant, I could only work with a handful of clients a year, and the changes that we were helping them make on their landscape were good, but nobody was fundamentally changing how they produced their income. Nobody was fundamentally working on the bigger systemic issues. making cool landscapes that produce food. And that's great. I think that's a really good idea. I think the permaculture movement has been moderately effective at doing that around the world. But I started looking for something bigger, something more effective. And through the work of Terra Genesis International, which is a consulting firm that I helped to found, We started to look at supply, at the larger systems of supply in the world, what people usually call a supply chain. How do big companies, say a chocolate company, get all of their different components together to their manufacturing from all over the world, from all these different places, and then produce their products? So we realized that if we could influence businesses who had especially complex global supplies, then they could start sourcing from regenerative agriculture and investing into regenerative agriculture systems around the world where they source their materials from. And that would all of a sudden have a much larger impact than working for individuals. So that was a real shift. And now I'm coming at it from a couple different angles. But still, the core of what I'm aiming to do and why I'm aiming to do it is I'm seeking to transform supply, how the global system of supply works. And I've got to come at it from multiple different angles. I kind of think of this as three legs of a stool. The first leg is really working on regenerative agriculture. What does that actually mean? What are the different levels of regenerative agriculture? How do you go from just starting out? How do you go from a chemical intensive, industrial, agriculture, degenerative, destructive I'm also working on the investment side of things and thinking about how do we help businesses choose to shift to invest into regenerative supply and then what is the role of equity, private equity, public equity, financing in helping farms transform. And then the third kind of leg of the stool is actually looking at the will of the marketplace and how is it that individual human beings all over the planet make the right choices to support a transition into regenerative supply and that's primarily what a big part of my time is on right now with the company how good which I'll tell you more about as we go
SPEAKER_01yeah definitely I think we have a lot to discuss so let's unpack them one by one and let's start with with the farming or let's start with the finance and transition level you mentioned how to help farms want to go in that transition level but often it is we know how to do it technically and how to move through the different levels of regenerative agriculture but you see it's often also a question of finance and what role could finance and impact investors who hopefully are all listening to this podcast what role could they play in that
SPEAKER_00well actually I'm going to disagree with what you first said I don't think people know how to get to regenerative agriculture a few people do and have laid out the science and the processes all around the world. But like one of my mentors would always say, the future is here. It just isn't evenly distributed yet. So there are a handful of people who have really dug into carbon farming and the process of regenerative agriculture, but most everybody else doesn't actually know the steps. And that's partly because regenerative agriculture doesn't have best practices. You can't just take one thing that works somewhere and slap it down somewhere else. Regenerative agriculture actually requires understanding the unique context of the land and the people and the culture and the history of wherever you're farming and innovating new solutions and new directions for each individual place. So I do think there's still a lot of learning for farmers to do and I apply that to myself as well as a farmer. We have a long way to go until our farm is actually regenerative Yeah, there isn't.
SPEAKER_01bankable or productable yeah
SPEAKER_00no you can't just go like develop a quick pipeline of 500 million dollars of regenerative agriculture enterprises they're just not out there they're not ready
SPEAKER_01they'll be amazing but yeah
SPEAKER_00that would be great so i think the role of impact investors is going to have to be different in this case i think impact investors need to think like an ecosystem and work like an ecosystem to focus on prepping the soil of investors and of farmers to work together to actually develop regenerative agriculture businesses that can turn a profit, that can grow. I don't think scale is necessarily what we want to look for in regenerative agriculture, at least not how it's thought about in the tech world.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, maybe scale the impact, but yeah, it doesn't mean scale to 200,000 hectares on one farm or
SPEAKER_00something. No, no. And also I think the whole metaphor of scale is coming from the wrong paradigm. And this is something that we... about in the paper on the levels of regenerative agriculture at each level you're coming actually from a different internal paradigm of how you think about the world and the metaphor of scale comes from actually the machine the mechanistic paradigm where we look at the world like it's a machine and we think okay we just need to add more of add more energy get more output and scale it up scale it up like we do an assembly line for making cars
SPEAKER_01like chain value chain comes out of the colonist view of the world and extracting. I had a big discussion with Gregory on that in the other podcast.
SPEAKER_00Exactly, yeah. The supply chain comes from the same metaphor where everything is a machine. So we've got chains, we've got assembly lines, you can add a little more financial capital and scale things up. And this is a sort of insidious way that most people go about thinking all the time, but it puts it imprint, the impact of that is more significant than the impact of the dollars that are being invested. So we actually have to change our minds and change our paradigm to a living systems
SPEAKER_01view. And our language, really. Since that interview, I'm starting to become more aware when I use a supply chain and usually add a few sentences after that or don't use it at all. So it starts really with that. But yeah, I agree. It's a paradigm shift of what is an investor, what is a gambler, what is a speculator, what means investing in an ecosystem what means soil but prepping the soil obviously practically but prepping the soil so what do you make sure can emerge after a while and how long what's time in that as well it's a very different way of it's really but it's really slowing down a lot and for many investors especially from the fast Silicon Valley world where two years is an eternity that's not easy it's like it's really forcing them to slow down and see the real economy and the real Yeah,
SPEAKER_00I think we need investors to be thinking about the people, about the farmers, and looking for very, very what would be considered pre-startup, you know, early, early stage looking for the right people with whom to partner towards developing regenerative agriculture businesses. Because most farmers are not, I mean, they are entrepreneurs. We have to be entrepreneurs to be farmers, but we're not trained to be farmers. in entrepreneurship. We're certainly not trained in how to grow a business in a way that can affect large areas of land, metabolize large amounts of financial capital, and turn it into living capital. So I think investors who are interested in regenerative agriculture need to be thinking in a longer term way and be cultivating the relationships and the businesses in enterprise ecosystems systems in particular places where they have connections around the world
SPEAKER_01so you would say really to look where you are already connected to like where which places are are low-hanging fruit and that's of course between brackets to to start this because it does require a sense of community and building that up before there's even going to be an investment before there's going to be anything investment ready
SPEAKER_00yeah before there's any financial capital investment i
SPEAKER_01think that's yeah obviously the other other types of investment or the other types of investment have to be made before
SPEAKER_00yeah I guess that's yeah I think that's a key is to you know use a multi-capital framework like the eight forms of capital and look at what forms of capital do I need to invest to successfully prepare the soil for a financial capital investment that can make a financial capital return
SPEAKER_01and if you look at at let's say the two legs of the stool if you look at the consumer side and if you look at the agriculture side and maybe look one year ago till now, have you seen a big shift in both ones? And if yes, what have you seen changed?
SPEAKER_00So one thing that
SPEAKER_01I think
SPEAKER_00is huge, it's not quite to the consumer yet, but there is a big shift from a year ago in the awareness of regeneration. And I think that's especially happened at the level of regenerative business. I see the word everywhere, but maybe just because I'm focusing on it. No, that's been... in the last year, regenerative business and regenerative agriculture have 100x or 1,000x from a year ago. And I think that has a lot to do with its uptake and adoption in the natural products industry. So bigger brands like Patagonia and Dr. Bronner's have been thinking about and using the term and figuring out what does it mean for them, but definitely promoting it before they necessarily have it and of course there's two sides to that but I think that's been a huge shift is the awareness has been really rapidly growing and partly I think that's because of the regenerative business summit that has happened the last two years where some of these players are coming together to take a look at not just how do you build soil or how do you increase the health of an ecosystem but how do you take that living systems paradigm and apply to your actual business. And the Regenerative Business Summit that just happened is a totally, it's not a conference. It's a full-on thinking event where CEOs and business unit leaders from around the world come together to resource each other and figure out how to transform their businesses towards regeneration. And the combination of that with groups like New Hope, which runs the natural product expos in the United States, They were actually awarded one of the honorees of the Regenerative Business Prize this year, and that's partially because they're adding a sense of regeneration into their conferences that thousands of people come to, brands and consumers alike, so that the awareness of regenerative agriculture is very quickly growing. I predict a year from now, it'll be, I don't know, 100 times more available and aware in the mind of the consumer And consumers will really be looking for and starting to ask for it a lot more than they are
SPEAKER_01now. And can we deliver as a sector? Because if people ask for it and it's not there, it can also lead to attention.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that's a big question. I'm not certain that there's enough regenerative agriculture to actually supply the demand that will
SPEAKER_01come. Because you just mentioned there are only a few people that are actually a few farmers or a few people that are on the land and probably there are even a few others that are capable of doing it but don't have access to sufficient land to actually produce sufficient amounts. So that would mean that probably there isn't enough supply, really regenerative supply to fill up this demand, even just from the natural product sector.
SPEAKER_00This is why I think we need to step beyond the polar view of yes it is, no it isn't and see instead It's
SPEAKER_01a journey.
SPEAKER_00of growing practices from degenerative to regenerative. What does it look like? And with that, people can begin to discern, like you said, where is this company, where is this product on its journey towards regeneration? It's not a yes, no, oh, we're there now. In fact, regeneration is never something that you arrive at. It is always an evolutionary, continuing to grow process. So we need people to be able to start thinking less in terms of yes and no, black and white, and more, where are we on the spectrum? Where are we planning to go? And how are we going to get there?
SPEAKER_01So let me rephrase. Is there enough supply that is, let's say, well away on the journey that we'll be happy with? Or is there a lot of work to do to even supply them with enough products that are on that journey and we feel comfortable as they are really on that journey or have made a good progress so far?
SPEAKER_00There's not enough. I wish I could say it differently, but there's just not enough. I mean, the top 10% of the food system, if we're focusing on food, though I'm actually very interested in the personal care and cosmetics supply system as well for a everybody sourced from the top 10% of producers, we would be very happy. That would be excellent. And I do believe there's a growing amount of supply in that range where it's not just organic, it's beyond organic, it's organic and it's fair trade and they're doing some carbon farming. That is like quickly growing and there might maybe be enough supply to meet demand, but probably not. We still have a long ways to go and it's an amazing moment for investment into this. space because from all the signals I see from all over the world from all the different industries that I track this really is the next big thing and investors who are able to consciously carefully get in now I believe are going to be very well positioned for the years to
SPEAKER_01come and looking at how good you mentioned we're looking at this continuum of where these companies these products are do you look also at the companies we Because of course, we can look at the farms level, like you mentioned before, and you mentioned also before, we really see some of these companies taking this ecosystem, this holistic ecosystem approach to their companies as well. Do you look at that at HowGood? And how do you put them on that continuum if you have a company that you're evaluating?
SPEAKER_00Yes, a portion of the score of the rating for any HowGood rated product. And HowGood, by the way, is primarily in food. We've been in food for for 10 years, we've rated 250,000 products. So we have about 70 indicators for every product.
SPEAKER_01But natural cosmetics are coming, right?
SPEAKER_00Yes, cosmetics are coming. Personal care is the next one to roll out. And we'll be going into other verticals after that. But in food, we have the largest food sustainability database in the world. And part of that is looking at the companies. A lot of what we're looking at is basic CSR corporate social responsibility work our real value add is not in the evaluation of the companies there are so few companies that are really pushing the edge of regeneration in terms of agriculture and they already you know they do well in the basic CSR kind of study of their work but they are included the actual company and how it's doing is included in every product that is produced by that company. So I think it's important. I think where Howgood really adds value is our ability to distinguish at the product level and really help somebody choose between different individual products and not just the companies that make
SPEAKER_01them. Very interesting. I was also asking that question to see for impact investors, these companies often have a different trajectory than what we've seen in the quote-unquote normal investing or private equity world. And I see sometimes a struggle of investing in these companies or putting money to work in the companies. Can you say a bit more about the different angles or levels of investment you see that are currently being experimented with to put money to work in both the company level and maybe later also on the farm level?
SPEAKER_00I guess the one creative thing that I have seen a little bit of and would love to see more of is not from the impact investor approach, but more from the brand to farm approach or the consumer product goods brand investing in their system of supply and therefore into farms or producer communities who are really producing the core materials that go into their products. So more and more you're seeing different companies develop internal investment funds that are I think, really intelligent to engage with their supply to ensure long-term availability, even in a complex climate change world with more shocks, more disruptions to supply. Those brands that are really working with their suppliers, not just sending them audits and coming to evaluate what they're doing, but are actually saying, okay, are you interested in moving too organic or moving beyond organic, great. What do you need to get there? Do you need technical assistance? Do you need new equipment? Do you need a nursery of improved varieties that you can plant out into the agroforestry system and are really engaging with their suppliers to figure out what they need and then backing that up with long-term buying contracts and buying relationships. So in a way, kind of getting to pay back their own investment through higher quality more reliable products or materials and a very exciting story to hand to their marketing department and to show to their consumer so that I think is very interesting so to tie that all together I can see something very interesting in impact investors working with the brands they invest in to help them set up investment funds for their suppliers so really really looking at the whole system and not just at individual organisms as if they exist alone
SPEAKER_01yeah and i mean this could be i think one of the most interesting co-investment opportunities you can imagine because you're so deep into into a brand that you hopefully like otherwise you wouldn't be co-investing with it and into their their supply web strengthening the brand strengthening their web and and of course with all the expertise of the brand and the company it also de-risks a lot of things of course you're working in climate change regions etc but you have the backing and all the knowledge and the contract of a larger brand behind it and I think that there's you're absolutely right I think there's a huge opportunity to put money to work alongside and with the brands that know what they're doing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah and also that's sort of on the positive potential side I think it's really important for brands and investors to be doing complex whole systems risk assessment for their systems of supply as climate change intensifies, as the global refugee crisis intensifies, which will continue happening. And I think, by the way, there's a real opportunity there having to do with regenerative agriculture. But I think that really mapping out the supply system and looking for risks and opportunities is going to be key. And there's a few firms that are doing that pretty well. Most of them are just looking at what could go wrong. And then a handful are starting to say, well, here's what could go wrong, but here's also where the opportunities are to not just stop it from going wrong, but actually to increase the quality and the resilience and even the anti-fragility of these systems ahead of time. And I think that's going to be more and more important in this unstable economic and
SPEAKER_01global climate. And what's the role, because you're mentioned very rightfully so. Most of the people aren't accredited investors, you and me included, but I would love to put some of my money to work in these type of companies and on the ground. What's the role of the consumers of the brand? Could we get into at some point, have you seen anything of that or have you heard anybody on the crowd investing side to also get that group of stakeholders in the company, the consumers involved in this transition?
SPEAKER_00I think crowdfunding is a cool opportunity New laws in the United States make it much more possible, and I think people are looking to it. It's not necessarily any easier from a brand or a farm's perspective to run a successful crowdfunding campaign as it is to get traditional investment. It's differently difficult. I think that one of the key– I'm not going to call it a leverage point because, again, this is funny. The idea of a leverage point comes from the mechanical paradigm. Right, it's a
SPEAKER_01level. Yeah, and yet we have mentioned it a couple of times in this
SPEAKER_00one. Right, so the way that I think about it now is instead of a leverage point, I think about a nodal point or a node. This is more like thinking about acupuncture, right? Acupuncture, you're putting in this tiny needle and it doesn't even necessarily do anything at the point where it goes in, but it shifts the energy flow of the whole organism, of the whole system. that's what we're looking for is little nodal intervention points that by putting a small amount of focus and attention and energy and investment we can shift the whole system so I think that one of those points and I don't quite know how to work it yet and I'd love to hear other people's thinking on this has to do with a simple metric which is the percent of income that an individual spends on food every year so in In the United States, that percent is at 8% right now. Only 8% of our income goes to food. double that, 16%, if 20% went to food, all of a sudden, a lot more of the regenerative agriculture systems, a lot more of the very local, small, close-to-home food options become much, much more viable. So a wholesale shift in people's percent income spent on food, I think that might be one of the fastest ways for consumers to engage in transforming the system, because it's not one individual thing they do with their money and then go ahead and keep doing everything else they do with their money. It's thinking about it systemically across their whole patterns of use of financial capital. How do I change this to purchasing regenerative products? So we have a, how it's going to release later this year, and I've worked a bit with the folks at Kiss the Ground on this, a regenerative diet model that gives some ideas about how I would buy regeneratively and what that would look like. How do I make a decision if I'm looking at vegetables versus meat versus dairy? What level of regenerative agriculture do I need to be purchasing at for that to work really well? I think that's a very interesting point to look at. I don't think it can be a government mandated or supported thing. No, that would be difficult. But there are some ways that I think could be intervened to shift that. And if in a whole bio region, people started spending more on really high quality food, that would, at a very basic level, increase the financial capital income of producers who are moving in a good way.
SPEAKER_01And does that mean that in countries where people are spending already a lot more of their income, I'm seeing some European countries where it's still, I think, at 15, 16%. Yep. Is there more space there? or just means that the income level is higher in the US, so it's more or less the same money, but maybe in countries where food still is much more important and is much more of a cultural thing as well, maybe there's a bigger leverage or it's more difficult because it's still maybe at a higher level to begin with. I'm just thinking out loud.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think that if you look at places where there's a higher percent of income spent on food, I think you would see that people eat better and are healthier and have lower healthcare costs and that the Agriculture is closer to regenerative than it is here in the States and some of the other parts of Europe where the percent income on food is still very low. Like here in the Netherlands. Right, exactly. And I think if we were really looking for the nodal points there, yeah, we'd look at where it's lowest and what could be done, especially in the US as such a large market, to shift that. But thinking from the producer's side... I believe that systemically looking for higher margin places to produce for and sell for is very interesting. That's part of why I love personal care and cosmetics is because more and more in that industry people are heading towards natural, which doesn't mean anything, people are heading towards plant-based and organic solutions to their products and the margins in personal care are extravagantly high. Because they're so expensive and people pay. percent of land area put into cosmetic crops could bring a significant portion of income because of the higher margins that are available
SPEAKER_01yeah i think it's it's interesting to to look at those worlds together usually it's separated i'm either producing for for food or i'm producing ingredients for the cosmetic industry but of course in a regenerative farm or regenerative landscape you're producing so many different products and hopefully such an abundance that it's it shouldn't be that difficult to add a few very high margin things to it. Even if you're selling for cosmetics instead of feeding people, it still feeds the whole system.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's also a great way if you are starting a regenerative agriculture venture. To
SPEAKER_01get cash
SPEAKER_00flow. Exactly, to have an early income because a lot of perennial tree crop systems, which by the way, most farms that actually achieve regenerative agriculture in the coming 10 years will be perennial crops and tree crops. The science just is much stronger for agroforestry than it is for grazing. I love livestock. I think it's excellent and can do a lot of good in the world. But if you really want to tackle climate change, if you really want to quickly put carbon into long-term storage, then planting trees is absolutely the way to do it. And before, you know, here in the Northeast, I'm thinking a lot about chestnuts and hazelnuts and other sort of perennial nut crops. Those take five to 10 years, before they start yielding. So in the meantime, having a short-term annual or shorter-lived herbaceous perennial that can be sold into the market, I think is a very good idea.
SPEAKER_01Extremely, extremely interesting. I want to thank you and end with a final question. We've already discussed a few items, but let's see and let's hope that a lot of smart impact investors are listening to this podcast and I always like to end with this question they are ready they are interested they are ready to put their capital to work through a lot of different types of capital where should they start they should start of course locally as well but what if they are already doing things where else if they are active in their local community and if they want to put more capital to work outside of that what do you think are the most interesting angles they can explore in the next few months
SPEAKER_00I think I think the key that I would look for is perennial crops, is looking towards agroforestry as an investment in all parts of the world, especially places that are on the edges of where climate change will have the most significant impacts. Leaving those places and just think about all the islands that are literally going underwater. And if we can get 10 years out ahead of that and fund regenerative agroforestry systems, producing not just food, but products for the personal care and cleaning products industry, then the interesting thing is that establishing agroforestry systems is not... There's like less work in some ways at the beginning. There's always, of course, work to get started. But if they can be established, then when they start producing three, four, five, six, seven, ten years from now, then I think the influx of people that will unfortunately but likely be coming, there can be ready employment opportunities and real production of secure food and fiber and all sorts of things from these agroforest So that's what I'd look for. I'd also look for companies that are actually doing carbon measurement. More and more you're going to see brands and farms claiming to be regenerative without, you know, really even knowing what it means, thinking it's just organic plus a little more. And it's a lot more than that. And I think that those who are serious enough to be measuring their carbon systemically as even that's just level one regenerative agriculture. But it's a really good step. So I'd look for investment opportunities where people are actually measuring and figure out how to partner. We need chimeras. We need this combination of regenerative farming. What's a chimera? between regenerative agriculture farmers on the ground and then business people because they're not we just don't have enough time for farmers to learn what they need to to have an MBA and for MBAs you know or investors to learn everything that they need to about farming I think we need to chimera them together like graft them together to create businesses that can rapidly take on regenerating the soil regenerating the ecosystem and therefore regenerating the larger global system of supply. So that's where I would focus.
SPEAKER_01And to, I mean, I'm always asking five final questions actually at the end. What do you be working on for the next, let's say, few months? And if we talk in a year from now, what would you look back on in these big challenges? What's your, what you're most excited about until the end of the year?
SPEAKER_00We're launching new rating systems at HowGood to help people discern between a not so good product and a good product and a great one and the best one that's out there so we'll be launching in personal care and after that we'll do cleaning products and after that I'm very interested to work on clothing so that people all over the world can very very quickly discern how far on the path to regeneration a given product is most products won't be anywhere close yet but some will be will be headed there. And I think that's part of the invitation for impact investors as well, is to grow your discernment capability. That's what the levels of regenerative agriculture paper we wrote is all about, so that people can have a way to discern between the different levels that are happening. So I'm going to be working on launching those new verticals. I'm also going to be changing a lot of things on our farm coming up this year. Yeah, that was going to be my next question. What are
SPEAKER_01you working on? on the farm
SPEAKER_00well it's a we bought an old orchard and we're we are changing the orchard we're grafting over the old varieties and putting new disease resistant ones on we're integrating livestock so there's sheep grazing under the apple trees we're going to be planting a number of new crops some of them cosmetic crops other than medicinal herb crops to have shorter term yields but then also really looking at on our farm and in other land locally what does long-term regenerative agriculture model look like that could also incorporate real estate and this is something I've worked in before developing a regenerative real estate business model and I have some very interesting ideas that I'd love to come on in probably about five years it'll be ready to speak with your investors again and tell them a bit more about the opportunity but for now we're just measuring the carbon testing out the business model and making sure we have the right crops for our local ecosystem.
SPEAKER_01And the neighbors, what was and is their response to you? First of all, putting sheep in an apple orchard, which must look crazy for many.
SPEAKER_00So far, the response is great. It's a funny area. Are they copying? Are they taking over things? Not yet. We're just getting started here, though there are several farmers who have said, that's great, can you bring your sheep over to my orchard to graze? We are not in a really heavily agricultural area and so it's not like we're in the Midwest. So everybody here is pumped that there's local food headed towards regeneration. I
SPEAKER_01want to thank you so much for your time and sharing. I will definitely link a lot of resources we discussed below and we'll be checking in earlier than five years as well, sooner than five years just to hear about a lot of the other projects and thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much. Cheers. You just listened to an interview with Ethan Soloviev, international regenerative agriculture expert, although he doesn't believe in experts. We discuss, among other things, where do we have these acupuncture points, these nodes in the food and agriculture system where impact investors and farmers can have the biggest change for the least amount of effort, because there's so much to do. Thank you for making the time to listen to this podcast and making it all the way till the end. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. If you have any comments or ideas for future guests, please share them on soundcloud or twitter and if you think this content is relevant or interesting for someone else please feel free to share the interview and i hope to see you again here soon for more of these type of interviews if you found the investing in regenerative agriculture and food podcast valuable there are a few simple ways you can use to support it number one rate and review the podcast on your podcast app that's the best way for other listeners to find the podcast and it only takes a few seconds number two share this podcast on social media or email it to your friends and colleagues Number three, if this podcast has been of value to you and if you have the means, please join my Patreon community to help grow this platform and allow me to take it further. You can find all the details on patreon.com slash regenerative agriculture or in the description below. Thank you so much and see you at the next podcast.