413 Anastasia Volkova - Building the world's largest MRV provider

Regenerative agriculture really works. Data shows that the ability of crops, from planting to harvest, to withstand weather shocks (50-year droughts and floods happening every year, anyone?) correlates very strongly with regenerative agriculture practices. To enable that at scale, MRVs are crucial. 

Happy to welcome back on the podcast Anastasia Volkova, co-founder of Regrow Ag, the AI-powered platform to make agriculture resilient, who just made another acquisition. We check in with the MRV pioneer and successful entrepreneur about why they are merging with the leading LATAM player. Last time we talked, five years ago, they had also just merged.
We talk about the current state of the MRV world: who is paying, who isn’t, who is doubling down on remote sensing, and who is investing in resilient agriculture.

What do the current wars everywhere (we are recording this in mid-March '26, when the Iran war is in full swing) mean for resilient agriculture and the investments needed to unlock it? We also talk- just as we did five years ago- about fertiliser and the double role it plays. In the Global North we can easily cut 70%- yes, 70%- without meaningful yield drops, but in the Global South it’s desperately needed in many places. With the current exploding prices and energy costs, that will be difficult.

We discuss AI and its ability to unlock insights from large (cleaned-up) data sets, and why she is stepping into a more living-systems way of thinking. She’s optimistic that watershed- scale regeneration is almost at our fingertips.

More about this episode.

LARIS 2026

Latin American Regenerative Investment Summit (Cumbre de Inversiones Regenerativas de América Latina). Be part of the movement that is regenerating the way we learn, invest, and live.

Bogotá, Colombia

May 12 - 14

https://regenerativo.org/en/laris/

Find out more about our Generation-Re investment syndicate:
https://gen-re.land/

Thank you to our Field Builders Circle for supporting us. Learn more here

Transcript

Anastasia Volkova: [00:00:00] the only fields that are standing, the only ground that you can work and get out onto are those that are regenerative. 

Koen van Seijen: Those are the powerful words of our guests of today. Anastasia, CEO, and founder of Regrow Regenerative agriculture really, really works. The data shows that the ability to plant, to harvest, to withstand the weather shocks once in a 50 year droughts and floods happening every year. Anyone correlates very nicely with regenerative agriculture practises. 

To enable this at scale, mvs are crucial and Regrow just made another acquisition. So we check in with this MRV, pioneer and Successful Entrepreneur, why they're merging with the leading Latin player. Last time we talked five years ago, they also just merged. We talk about the current state of MRV, who's paying, who isn't, who's doubling down on remote sensing and who is investing in resilient agriculture 

and what do the current wars everywhere? We are recording this in the middle of March 26 when the Iran war is in full swing mean for resilient agriculture and the investments [00:01:00] needed to unlock this. We talked just as we did five years ago about fertiliser and a double role it plays in the global north. 

We can easily, I'm not saying it's easy, but. Cut. 70%. Yes, you heard it right. 77 0 without meaningful yield drops. But in the global south, it's often desperately needed in many places, and with the current prices, it's gonna be unaffordable. They're exploding, and the energy costs make it very, very difficult to produce and to even get it somewhere. 

And we talk AI and its ability to unlock the insights from large and cleaned up data sets. And why is she stepping into a more living systems thinking and is very optimistic about watershed scale. Regeneration is almost, really almost at our fingertips and joy. 

Koen van Seijen: AI for So Health is funded by the European Union and has received funds from the UK Research and Innovation under the UK Government's Horizon Europe Funding Guarantee. For more information, visit AI for so health.eu or find the link below.  

Koen van Seijen: This is the investing in Regenerative Agriculture and Food [00:02:00] Podcast where we learn more on how to put money to work, to regenerate soil people, local communities, and ecosystems while making an appropriate and fair return. 

Koen: Welcome to another episode today with an AI powered platform to make agriculture resilient. Welcome back, Anastasia. 

Anastasia Volkova: Thank you so much, Cody, for having me. It's incredible to be back after so long. 

Koen: Yeah, it's been, I checked, uh, five years, so March at the end of March 21. We talked and already, uh, I don't think the, the AI was already part of it, but wasn't so prominent. Of course, now we live in AI land. But definitely the resilient part was absolutely part of the conversation, was part of the website, was part of the, the, let's say, the language you've been using for a long time. 

And I think many people are starting to catch up on that a bit where recording is in the middle of a, a very disruptive war in the Middle East and many other places. And so we'll definitely touch upon that from a fertiliser perspective, which you mentioned last time quite a few times. And from just a, a resilience and dependency and a freedom perspective as well. 

But first [00:03:00] of all. Just welcome back on the podcast. You're, you're still around as a company, which is not an easy thing actually. How, and, and you are calling in actually with, uh, a very specific, uh, exciting news as well. So let's start with that. What, what brings you on now? I mean, we could have recorded this check-in also in a couple of months, but actually the timing is very, um, is very relevant. 

What, what's happening at Regrow and, and why is it so relevant to be back on the podcast at the moment? 

Anastasia Volkova: Yes, really excited to share some news. Um, we have been looking at the m and a space for the last nine months. I've reflected on that earlier today in preparation for our conversation. Today? Uh, pretty much since early summer last year, uh, 2025, we started looking at opportunities for inorganic growth. Um, recognising that the way that markets are shifting and bringing a lot of uncertainty, um, pushes companies to think differently about their growth. 

Um, and we are, um. At a point where we are happy to announce, uh, a merger with a company [00:04:00] that we're very excited to partner with. It's with Platform Puma and, um, the company does. Him RV in similar ways to Regrow, but it has a very similar DNA, but has come up with different complimentary products. So we are very, very proud to bring Latin American market leader into the Regrow family to cover global supply chains, especially as Latin America becomes more and more important as the supply, uh, and sourcing region for a lot of European companies that are driving the agenda around sustainability and resilience. 

Um, on top of that, we're adding coverage. For, um, biofuel verticals, which is also growing and it's important at Rego. We, um, had some found mental quantification through the DNTC model that we use into biofuels, but Puma extends it. And another extension that we're really excited about is the extension to livestock. 

So again. Rigo has a few projects in livestock and our, uh, IP and modelling, but it's great to have a platform that enables, um, the farmer transitioning inclusion, uh, of [00:05:00] livestock back on the land to be available. And, uh, we're looking forward to integrating the companies and integrating the teams and offering the solution to our global group of customers, which some of them already shared. 

So this merger really felt like it was on the cards for the customers, for the universe, and for ourselves. 

Koen: And do you see that as a you? You are, you said, I'm. Started reflecting about six months ago into, um, let's end the summer and, and starting to see what, what were signals for that. I think we've seen, um, some interesting movements in the space in general, MRV space specifically as well. Like there are some customers really doubling down and some others, uh, I don't know, quote unquote, tourists leaving. 

Like there's, there's a lot of flux. What, what triggered for you that reflection in, in the summer? What was something you said, okay, let's see where we're going. And are there ways to partner emerge and do some acquisitions in this space to, to be in a better position? And maybe some other of the, the colleagues, let's say, are, are also looking to do that and not just all be by yourself. 

Like what, what triggered that, that sort of, uh, reflection period [00:06:00] over the summer. 

Anastasia Volkova: So it's not a secret that at the beginning of last year us has shifted its possession on investment into sustainability and resilience, as well as put a lot of focus on international trade through vision of the tariffs. And so a lot of the companies were in that turmoil that followed for six to nine month. 

The result, the attention was drawn away from investment in the core resilience of supply chains on the farm level. Some companies stayed and some companies stayed and, um, doubled down while some others, uh, companies and teams, like you said, maybe pulled back or, uh, put it on the um, uh. Slow burner on the cooktop. 

And for us what that meant. Um, when we're looking at our p and l, when we're looking at our impact metrics, we're B Corp, it's really important for us to continue to ate, facilitate the change we wanna see in the world. It's in our mission statement, transition agricultural acres towards resilience. Um, when we were reflecting on what is growing and what is working. 

We saw that [00:07:00] the, um, projects that already had a strong base and very strong commitments from off-takers were continuing to grow. Maybe they were growing less aggressively than we would've hoped or expected, but they were still growing. And so, um, our realisation, um, from that observation was that in acquiring a growth base that already is established in a different region, we can accelerate this. 

A creative return on investments into our platform in science because, um, MRV. Um, in our vision needs to be a standard, ideally a global standard. Maybe there's a couple of providers, but ultimately we're getting to a point where we'll have clarity on MRV standards. In the same way that there's gap accounting and other types of accounting around the world. 

Everyone knows how to read a, uh, cash flow model when it gets sent to you, when it's in that accounting standard. And so similarly, we believe in that future for the MRV. In order to actually implement it, we need to add coverage in [00:08:00] geographies where we currently either are slowly developing and need acceleration, um, or are not able to penetrate due to, um, local specifics. 

Um, you know, I'm, I'm European, but I went to Latin America first time earlier this year. Uh, bill, my cofo co-founder, um, through our previous, um, m and a activity. Um, he has been trying to develop business in, um, Brazil. In those relationships. Academically they're fantastic, but commercially, uh, it has been relatively slow. 

I wanna be, uh, transparent as I usually am. Um, and we saw an opportunity that instead of. Um, slowly continuing to do what we've been trying to do and develop it from afar. Uh, what's the opportunity to partner with a local leader that wants to grow and has the same aspirations, has the same mission and values around the customer satisfaction, the farmer success, the supply chain focus, um, and resilience is an outcome. 

All of those, uh, points really brought us into the value evaluation of a number of companies globally. It wasn't just Latin America [00:09:00] that we, um, started to look at when we looked at a number of, um, smaller organisations, large organisations, um, and. Any investment banker can tell you how to run that type of, uh, m and a, uh, process. 

It's like a CRM. You create a list of, uh, companies that could be good targets. You start, uh, talking to them and to the net network to understand what could be a good fit. Uh, and we had a couple of conversations that terminated in different stages. Uh, we've gone down this path with a few companies to try to evaluate if it's a good fit commercially, if there are synergies, operationally, if there are synergies, um, in investment wise, return on investment. 

And we saw the most empowering synergies for both sides to be with Puma, and that's how we landed on this partnership that we're so excited about. 

Koen: And. Now coming to, to the current, uh, turmoil we're in or the current, I mean, without saying I told you so, uh, which you for sure you're internally are saying a a few times. Um, have people been knocking on your door or what's like, we're still in the middle of the shock, basically, or [00:10:00] fertiliser price going absolutely through the roof. 

We don't know how long it's gonna stay. Nobody knows. When you're listening to this, it might be very different, but imagine where it is recording is the middle of March and 2026 and, and it's, it's definitely crisis in many ways. Um, what the last years with the push, with the pullback from the US for not focusing on sustainability necessarily anymore. 

Um, and you've been always saying resilience. Resilience, resilience is the, the war to drive the, the, have you seen, um, let me ask a question differently. What is different five years ago to now in terms of, um. Customers that work. Like who's buying, who's, who stopped buying maybe, what are the most interesting ways, we talked a lot about water last time as well, and fertiliser. 

Like where are the, the most important pieces of your, your work, let's say, and what is really starting to, um, to, to develop further and what maybe hasn't so much as we hope to biodiversity credits or something like what, what hasn't really taken off? So what's it been taking off over the last five years? 

And, and then we get also in today, maybe that's a bit too fresh. Yes. But we'll see where, where we go with that. So what has been. Working well and what hasn't so much, let's say in the last, in the last five years. 

Anastasia Volkova: What has worked phenomenally [00:11:00] well is the global alignment around the TCO O2 E as a metric. So total tonnes of carbon equivalent that are sequestered or abated. Um, that to me is truly phenomenal given how complex this matter is, and we are recording this. On the coattails of the release of LSRS now as a standard, not as a guidance that encourages everybody to start looking at removals, and that was 

Koen: For, for a lay man. If you walk us through that in a few sentences, what should we know or what should we recognise before we all start Googling or Gemini or chatting? Yeah. 

Anastasia Volkova: That's, that's right, that's right. Um, well, effectively, um, companies were living out the portion of solar organic carbon. Impact from the projects that they were funding because there was weak or unclear guidance around how to actually account for that. Now that we have much clearer guidance, it's still not done, but I'm very grateful where they've gotten it to already, um, for a number of projects is completely game changing [00:12:00] because, and maybe if you were in, um, grassland raging. 

Those are the only things that you can really prove and scale. Uh, we have also now more opportunities to do it, so it's not just through direct sampling, which is of course is a good tool at a right scale, at a huge scale. It's not possible to soil sample every single hectare. And so what you're starting to do is measure. 

Model. Um, and that starts being cost effective, uh, scalable, uh, and, um, scientifically viable to fund projects on the basis of a more comprehensive, um, outcomes. And of course, this is what's the driver for the farmer as well. They want to make sure that the soil, um. Can, uh, grow back effectively and regenerate itself. 

And you can see it when the farm traditions to regenerative, you can put in the shovel and uh, or you know, do it for the machinery so you can get more soil out. But you can see the top layers completely change the infiltration rate being completely different. Um, and as you were saying, [00:13:00] nutrient demand. 

So, nitrogen, nitrogen, nitrogen. Um. It being completely different and you're starting to get off the treadmill every year. You implement regenerative. Um, what have we seen? Um, also working is the recognition of MRD to me. Um, I was hoping this would be the case, but the fact that this acronym is used by governments all around the world in facilitating the ecosystem service markets, um, is very promising. 

We're not the first ones in. Kinda a small category that we're building in agriculture and food. We're now the first ones in the world to use the concept of MRV. Uh, it was used as MNV in energy space before, uh, because we are a lot clearer in how to do it in a building because it's a built environment. 

We can measure things. It's understandable, it's not quite as directly impacted, uh, as nature based environment such as a farm. Uh, so those are the things that I think looking back at five years ago. I was hoping that they would happen, but they actually did happen, and in a big way. What also happened halfway through this period, almost [00:14:00] now, um, or in a tail end of this period, is that a number of folks that were thinking this was promising but weren't quite committed to it long term, um, or weren't quite focused or reached enough scale, actually are starting to fizzle out. 

And, uh, as you started in the episode. It actually is pretty tough to have your startup get to now almost 10 years, you know? And, uh, more than six months will be 10. And that is a huge milestone. And, uh, since the beginning, since the founding of the company, I have kept saying that in 2027 we will be inevitable. 

Because I believe that that is close enough to 2030. And if we survived that long and that far, we have come, we have the platform that's steady, the customers that are supporting this, and we've built scale. Ultimately, that's partly what m and a is about getting to scale where we can do this so operationally, efficiently, because we have all the projects that are consistent enough with all the quantification is consistent enough now. 

To your other question, [00:15:00] what has not been working as well? Um, there are only a few countries where you can actually issue water credits and biodiversity credits according to schemes that are recognised by the government, which really is a. the regulation should be seen as an enabler and private industry says all the time. 

I was in two very high profile industry meetings this week and last week, and industries across the board are saying we want regulation because we want clarity on how to invest in something in nature and water. Needed pretty badly. If you look at the uk, this is a space in which you have regulatory framework, that you have guidance to be 10% nature positive on every project that gets built. 

And so the farmer can actually participate in, uh, the economy that's boosted by it, um, to plant. Um, biodiversity zones, like pollinator habitats or, uh, to restore wetlands. And it's hugely beneficial to our ecosystem and in a number of ways, but do we see that market, uh, [00:16:00] globally expanded? It's starting in Europe, but we still do not have full alignment on neither the regulatory space nor the metrics. 

Um, so I'm encouraged where we've gotten to with carbon with now CRCF in Europe, um, trying to bring. Even more structure to it and more validity. Um, but I think the same needs to happen for water and nature because, um, there is clear path to doing it scientifically to quantification of it. But if there is no alignment in the industry around what metrics we are using, uh, then it's much harder to scale economically if we use just one metric for carbon and we can break it down into all the different gases and removals and reductions and all of that technical jargon that is important for climate, but. 

Big picture. Consumer interest needs to be just trended in the right direction. When you look at water and biodiversity, there is no consistency. Are you counting turtles on the island? Are you counting birds? Are you doing DNA samples of the top soil? Well, what about water? There's so many different metrics as well. 

I'll pause here. I am [00:17:00] very. Much looking forward to that alignment because I think that can bring more holistic investment into the space. Um, and I'll leave the things I'm ever really excited about for your later question. 

Koen: Oh, I think, wait one second. There's a. 

A headphones that came into mind. I should be back. Can you still hear me okay? Yeah, 

Anastasia Volkova: hear you well. 
 

Koen: well. Let me, 

Anastasia Volkova: Ooh, it's not in the headphones 'cause 

Koen: No, no, it's not in headphones now it's back. 

Anastasia Volkova: Okay. 1, 2, 3. 
 

Koen: on in another room. It took me over. Um, let me just make sure that these settings are back to where they should be. 

Yes, they are. And bring us back to the current. I have questions about m and a as, but just thinking it's, it's super fresh. I dunno, uh, how much you thought about it, but the, the current disrupting or disruptions we see, um, with potential future ones. I think if we are fair, I think in this five year period we had a sewers, canal [00:18:00] blockage by accident, but it showed us fragility. 

We, of course, had a war, um, or have a war in Ukraine, which sent out prices, but not even as much as now here. There, there's a lot of, a lot of things have happened in five years and, and let's hope that doesn't happen the next five, but chances are they will because we live in a very fragile, uh, poly crisis world. 

Um, has, what, what are your views on that, specifically on agriculture and food? Is that starting to make people lean into resilience in a different way That we've seen, like a nice to have now it's actually fundamental. Is there, is there a tone change? Have you sensed a tone change? In, in all the meetings you're in the high profile one. 

You're meeting also in general with customers, with clients, with farmers that, oh, this is maybe the new normal. Unfortunately, 

Anastasia Volkova: I think there's a couple of aspects here that are a little bit hard for the industry to reconcile, so I would give you a couple of examples of what's actually happening. So. We might not be thinking about it too much, but part of crops that we're [00:19:00] growing goes to fish feed and making sure we have alternative sources of protein because the modern consumer understands that, um, conventional farming, uh, of, in protein systems is particularly troubling unless it's certified and clear and transparent. 

And so the modern consumer is. Actively moving away from red meat and meat sources, protein towards, um, fish and seafood. And what we're seeing there that the global suppliers are actually pretty impacted by the Swiss canal, um, blockage, because you really need to. Ship something from India all the way around Africa, into Europe. 

And how will that impact the consumer, given that the processor now needs to pay a much higher price for transportation, for no fault of its own, for a completely force as far as his contract is concerned, but yet they will have to absorb that margin because we want to protect the consumer. But I think at some point you start actually pointing the consumer to [00:20:00] it so that the consumer can get more educated around why it's. 

Not only really important to, um. Trend that we seen to support local because you have much less supply chain disruption if all of it is local. In many cases. It's important to start getting informed and, and actually understand and look into the impact of climate change and global disruptions on the food system. 

There's only a few. There are only a few studies globally that actually demonstrate the linkage, and this was one in the uk, but usually these numbers are heavily abstracted, and so we're doing ourselves in a way, a disservice. So we have a machine that's supporting us and it looks like subsidies, and it makes sure that even if there is a loss of agricultural productivity, the farmers are supporting and then we actually have to buy the commodity elsewhere. 

But food companies and traders and processors deal with that right now and have to absorb it. We still see the final outcome of it, the grow the rise in food prices, the rise in [00:21:00] commodity prices. But we're not linking it directly. And what's challenging with the political will and the window of political action is to thread the needle on initiatives that have longer term value. 

And I see more of that will in Europe to think beyond just the five years of electorate and. Think of it more generationally, um, and working hard to align the industry and the public finance together with private and philanthropic sector. Everyone wants the same thing. Um, ultimately resilience. Why is it so important? 

Just a quick cameo for that really important concept. Is that currently we're paying almost an insurance payout for something that's not working in agriculture. And so the farmers that do not want to depend as much on subsidies or insurance or cannot access it, are actually a lot more willing and able to transition to regenerative agriculture 'cause they feel there is a need to do so. 

And it looks very different in different [00:22:00] regions around the world. As I'm sure the listeners know, they've been with us for over five years. We've been talking about. Um, but when you look at the concept of resilience, truly what do we want as society? We want to have access to healthy, nutritious food that comes from healthy, nutritious, ideally, uh, well grown ingredients that also good for the planet. 

And all of those actually stack really well. The regenerative is healthier for the planet and for the human gut, more nutritious. But we're still trapped in a system that is paying for. Conventional farming to be incentivized in some current countries. So incentivized that they're unable to transition to regenerative. 

They're willing, they're interested, but realistically, the financial system currently doesn't support them. Like federal crop insurance in the US needs a reform to be able to align the public dollar with the outcome that's good for the farmer and for the planet. At Regrow, we've looked at so much data over the years. 

It's country by country now. It's every year is a [00:23:00] 50 year event. think about that the last six years, every year we have an event that has a probability of one of 50 years, and it's a flood or a drought or a a per prolong period or, or both. And the only fields that are standing, the only ground that you can work and get out onto are 

those that are regenerative. 

 And so if we're 

Koen: That notion, but that notion, just to, to come back to that, that notion, I think hasn't landed with so many yet. Like we still have that, does this stuff actually work conversation quite a lot. Like surprisingly, a lot. And you're saying with the data you see. With the work you do with clients, that's the only fields that you can get into as quickly as you need. 

The only stuff you can harvest in these 50 year events that happen every year are reject on whatever spectrum. I mean, we can have an endless. 

Anastasia Volkova: a huge probability of regenerative practise to ability to withstand those events with high yield stability, call it yield resilience, or the ability to plan to begin with because with these increased floods you get, prevent [00:24:00] plant, you cannot get out onto the ground and work it. 

Koen: Which is, I mean, was were you that confident five years ago of that data or? 

Anastasia Volkova: Well, Bill's side of the company, when we were merging in 2021 and a announcing it, they had some studies because in 2019, this massive US flood, and I was actually going through it, like physically, I was on the bus with Australian trade delegation. We were in the Midwest, several feet in water in our bus. 

Koen: Which must be an interesting experience because that like Australia came there 

Anastasia Volkova: right there. 
 

Koen: to see. How it's done, let's say, and you were sharing, okay, this is not necessarily how it's done, but there's a field that's very interesting. This is how it could be done. 

Anastasia Volkova: That's right. It seems like it's working somewhere, but why is it not working over there? And when you look back from that time, you see the practise adoption and correlation with the ability to. 

Koen: Grow. 

Anastasia Volkova: these shocks and the data has been pretty clear since 2019. So [00:25:00] my big picture summarising comment on resilience and the shock absorption of the system was going to be that the reason why we're not adapting as quickly is because there's a whole system that's supporting the common, generally adopted way of doing things that we need to transition because it becomes financially non-viable and. When you are looking at true resilience on the ground, now we don't have to talk to everybody about 2019 flood in the US whilst they're sitting in the uk. I was in the UK yesterday and we were, I was telling them about what happened to them because every single year I can pick an event. Let's look at your drought last year, and that was the most dismal. Atrocious harvest lowest on record in 86 years. And here are the fields that did not have that issue. Let's look at the year before when you had flood and 10% of wheat was not able to get planted in [00:26:00] all of the industry. And, uh. Um, other on effects in the supply chain that that led to now, unfortunately, due to poly crisis, I do not have to look that far to point someone to the data. 

And we actually work very hard with, uh, regulators and NGOs to share our data and. Aggregate scale without exposing anybody. Without showing exact farms at the county levels, at the watershed levels, to policy makers to help them drive the decisions and drive alignment because facts can speak for themselves in these maps. 

Koen: And which actually brings up a question on, on the open source. This, that's not a word, but I made it up, um, of this data, like how, how far do you go? To drive that, of course, not revealing anything, but there is, maybe regulators might also wanna see, like, actually we would love to see who is contributing the most to this, this flood. 

Uh, or let's say, which farms or which places within the watershed should we intervene first? Like where, where do you draw that line? Of course it depends, but like in terms of, okay, we have this [00:27:00] data, a lot of this remote sensing data. We talked about it a lot last time. You're fighting the clouds, but you can go through radar. 

There are some more. More commercial satellites you have to pay more for. There's quite a few open ones. So you're stacking together all different layers. So where does it, um, stop in that sense of, um, of privacy and open source? When can farmers do themselves, like, actually I would like to see my field compared to the neighbour. 

Like, what's that relationship with data and, and privacy and open. 

Anastasia Volkova: Yeah, so I believe we had had a very healthy relationship with privacy and open source that still enables us to be the business that wants to see. 

Koen: Because you are a business. 

Anastasia Volkova: be the change. 
 

Koen: Yeah. 

Anastasia Volkova: Be the change that it wants to be, because fundamentally, our theory of change is that if we're able to unlock. By accessing them through measurement, the incentive for every part of the supply chain, then each part will evolve in a way that plays its corresponding role in transitioning [00:28:00] us to resilience. 

That's what we truly believe in. That's why we stay in our lane. Being an MRV, being the supporting partner, being an expert that coaches folks on how to do it, and the one that comes with the data and, uh, tries to help build ROI models in these stories as to why it matters. So because we are dealing with so much geospatial data, trillions, we monitor now 52% of the world arable land. 

It's over one and a half billion acres, which is, you know, staggering numbers compared to what I would've thought we were capable of doing five years ago. Again, a lot of ai and every year some parts of the system get cheaper, some parts get more complex and we continue to invest, but some parts of it get, get cheaper and it's really, um. Encouraging to me because it means we'll be able to ultimately get to dismal cost of MRV and, and get this to every 

Koen: Is that something like the next couple of years, like do you see that accelerating decelerating? Like is, are you excited for an ex? If we have this conversation two, three years, would it be another jump like that? 

Anastasia Volkova: [00:29:00] I believe so even what we've seen in the last four months with the releases of the recent AI models, what they enable us to do and how much faster they're enabling us to draw insights from our data. This has never been so accessible and. So informative because we've worked so hard to make sure that data is good and we continue to work and nothing's perfect. 

You know, every company and ours too. We make mistakes. We tell customers when we do, we have to make it make good and make sure that the climate impact is trend in the right, uh, direction with every action we take. But I think as a business, as a CEO of a. Baby business that is trying to contribute to a massive industry, much larger than itself. 

We have the responsibility to make sure it's at all times financially viable. And to me, this transformation is extremely exciting and that's what partly enables these strategic partnerships and m and a, because we're now able to bring the technology [00:30:00] to more places faster by, by leveraging, um. Ai. Um, yeah, I think in the next two, three years, you and I can't even imagine, uh, what's gonna happen if you can structure and enable that data access, um, into the right place. 

But back to your question about data privacy and data exposure. So, um, we do not have. Information on who farms what land. 'cause we look at it from satellite pictures, um, until the farmer comes and enrols into one of the programmes offered by our corporate partners 

Koen: says like, here am I. This is me. 

Anastasia Volkova: Yes, and says, here are my fields. 

I'm gonna pick the mom. You map, and I'm going to tell you where you maybe had low confidence. Like you were saying, there were cloudy satellite pictures you didn't know when I planted my cover crop in winter. I can tell you here's my machinery file, and so on and so forth. That. Only happens when the farmer actually engages directly. 

And we really encourage them to, because we're trying to bring incentives to them. That is the entire business model that we've, uh, established, uh, five years ago, that [00:31:00] farmers, instead of paying for software and enrolling in it, can get the benefit of payments by providing some additional data that improves the quality of the model and drives a better outcome for them. 

Now this data taken in aggregate and, and sliced in a much coer or spatial resolution as I was saying, in uh, the US it could be hux, it could be counties and cantons, and watersheds in Europe and in other places. Um, regions, states, territories, you name it. Basically, it's a spatial resolution of, um, a district that we consider to be consistent from. 

Climatic and, and soil and other parameters that it's relevant to look at it together. I can tell you that that level of resolution is screaming insights at you. If you see two neighbouring districts and they perform very differently because of the policy, you'll be able to see it so clearly on the map. 

So we clearly terraformed this place. It's not because [00:32:00] farmers here feel. The need to use more phosphorus like, well, we've actually incentivized these other farmers to cut their use of phosphorus and look, they actually are performing quite well. And it's important to not just look at the emissions profile, but also the stability and productivity because the food security issue will become more central. 

And maybe I was a little bit more veiled about it five years ago as a Ukrainian before the. War that we have now, but now we're sitting here. We have three wars at the same time. The ones that are in the news all the time, there's also dozens that are not in the news all the time, and the fertiliser prices impact the people who are most dependent on them. 

So I'm concerned that it's gonna impact Africa the most. 'cause this is where fertiliser is imported. This is where it's needed the most to boost productivity, but it's not affordable anymore. So what that's gonna mean because. The farmers in the developed West can absolutely safely cut their [00:33:00] use of synthetic nitrogen without much of the yield loss, and there's plenty of programmes from. 

Commercial partners in the market to help them get on with this idea, whether it's yield warranties that the companies are starting to offer. It's very innovative. It's a fantastic structure. People are interested. They can look into that. Um, but when we're looking at policy decisions, they're glaring from this map back at you. 

And so obviously. We want to inform these decisions on how they're being made and taken. Or for example, for the new scheme on CRCF, how will the baselines be decided? Is it really feasible that European Union without use of satellite imagery, without use of AI, will have access to an up-to-date information on the practise adoption just by data collection through the subsidy scheme? 

That potentially is insufficient in my view. It's also inefficient, and so if you can be smarter at closing the loop, ultimately we are using EA data from Capus programme to fuel a lot of [00:34:00] these insights. Can do the full circle value creation attribution, and I'm hoping that that's where the SP Space Agency and European Commission will go with it. 

Um, because we need a pulse on the planet. It's literally on fire. It's overheating over flooding. There challenges, but there are also solutions and we can see them and hence if we can adopt them, we'll be more efficient with public finance. Of course, then there'll still be problems of adoption and having us all in one room to agree. 

It's never easy, but humanity can do it. I have faith. 

Koen: And I mean, it's interesting you mentioned, um, specifically on, on in Africa we hear already stories from Million Ballet. Uh, we had on the podcast we're doing a full Africa series at the moment of fertiliser prices in general I think are like three x in landlock countries in Africa, Uganda, et cetera. If you even get it. 

And last time we noticed with, um, with the attack on, in, on Ukraine. In Ukraine, the prices spike and even were cancelled. Like [00:35:00] fertiliser won't find his way to Pakistan to other places because other countries are just buying it. Um, so to even, I just had a farmer on this morning, um, and saying, if you can even get it, like there's a question, like there's a question of payment. 

If you have the money, which many people don't. Um, and then even the question if it ever gets delivered. So we were being pushed into an extreme situation. There as well. Um, but in at least the global north, we have a lot of programmes we can safely cut. We're over, over applying everywhere. Um, most people, not everyone don't get, don't send me angry messages now. 

Um, but you can safely cut I think 30, 40% and there are a lot of programmes to, to push that down way further. If you look at AR reports, I think 70 most of their farms at a 70, 80% reduction. Um, and, and if you do that in a managed way, it's, it's probably very, very resilient. Like it helps your resilience a lot. 

Um, but we shouldn't forget like. 

Anastasia Volkova: On this point that you just mentioned, because we've done the modelling at the very beginning of the company, so nine and a half years ago that we saw those figures of up to 80% reduction. And I'm so pleased with the work that IRA and the generous funders that are supporting that work, we're [00:36:00] hoping to support future reports to actually scale things as well there. 

Um, but it's true, like we're seeing it first scientifically in trials and maybe in smaller samples, and then we've seen it at scale. Takes almost 10 years for us to get on with something That's a fact, and I'm glad that regenerative and carbon markets took only five years in the recent iteration. I'm not discounted by any means, the work of everybody who worked for the previous 15 years and making them a stable, but I think the global poly crisis will actually help us with the adoption as gruesome as it sounds. 

Koen: Yeah, actually, was it gonna be a question? What do you think? Um, will this. It's so difficult to look at, of course, to, to predict. But will this accelerate, uh, adoption of a lot of these practises, policies, hopefully, uh, looking for ways to cut, to cut subsidies, to cut emergency spending on this, to cut fertiliser and to cut a lot of the chemicals that are made with natural gas. 

Like all these prices are gonna go through the roof and to look at, uh, food security, which is an interesting double, [00:37:00] at least there's research. Now we can point in like, look, there are pathways and, and you have the public crisis of climate. And weather, which doesn't help with, with production. Um, are they knocking on the door already? 

Like do you see any responses or is that too early and too fresh? At least in this war that just started 

Anastasia Volkova: I would say generally the response takes three to six to nine months To go through the system. 

Koen: Trump came on board and Yeah. You saw the same, it takes, 

Anastasia Volkova: to make the investments. Exactly. It takes a moment, but. Every time we experience a step change in the right direction, it's almost like we are not unknowing what we already know. And so I'm really hopeful the way that we cannot now unknow that agriculture is a meaning right now and can sequester carbon and can reduce nitrogen. 

This is becoming a point of general realisation and common sense. The fact, like you were saying. We are getting to a place where I can [00:38:00] stand in front of an audience of asset managers like last week with you there and present the data that is talking about. The correlation between regenerative adoption and returns, and that is something that they started understanding. 

Even the phrase that came up that extremely encouraged me on its very asset management language, but it's perfect. Conventional farm will likely become a stranded asset, especially if it's dependent on synthetic fertiliser, and that is brilliant. That's ultimately something that we need to see happen. And different countries have different dynamics with land management, land ownership, leasing, et cetera. Of course there's a lot of complexity to that, but people do see value in land want to continue to invest. There's good benchmarks on what the land investment creates. And land managers are more and more often a a, a thought, a thought in order to manage the land through the regenerative transition. 

And so. I maybe don't see it at a hundred [00:39:00] percent, but I see, um, the leaning of the financial community and asset management towards it. I think we'll start hearing a lot about food security. We already have a huge push for local food from consumers that have the disposable income and can make that choice. 

Um. Absolutely. Um, and so I think the more we're seeing the disruption and the supply chain disruptions result in, uh, price tag changes on shelves, the more a consumer will be aware, the more political contingency will have to talk about it and the more they'll hopefully have to do about it. I also want to throw in something that's a little bit unconventional. 

So with the new sources of energy and our breakthroughs. In, um, harness in renewables, there's actually potential for Africa to have independent sources of grain urea and, and fertiliser. And of course those developments require, um, patient capital, but there are fantastic startups that are working on it. 

Not because [00:40:00] I'm saying let's continue with the Haber Bosch process, but because we actually have to have. Support where people otherwise would not be able to grow food and more than 2 billion people on a day-to-day basis are surviving due to that process alone. And that's not an insignificant number given there's seven of us, 7 billion altogether. 

So. I think the transition is gradual and phases of transition for the west. Um, and other regions may look differently, but we should be seeing the trends towards national independence, more supply chain localization, and kind of pull back, uh, on that national supply. There's going to be a series of supply chains that could not do that, where it's simply nonviable the will start. 

The conversation about food security in a sensible policy manner where the investments have to be [00:41:00] reinvestment. Vehicles around regulatory incentives need to be retooled in order to actually foster food security. And not only. You know, just environmental benefits alone. It has to come hand in hand as demonstrated that it can be. 

Um, and finally we'll see more actors. This is something that I'm very encouraged by already, that we're not just seeing food companies and processors and those directly involved in the supply chain coming to this table and engaging, but more banks, um, more landowners, asset managers, maybe even finally, let's not wait five years for that insurance companies. 

Koen: The Holy Grail is always the insurance company in the health discussion. It's the insurance in the, but they're picking up the bills of many of these things and, and, um, they've been looking around. We know they come to our events like our side, they've been making investments left and right. Um, and there's a huge pot of money that needs to be invested and that needs to be invested in a way that makes sense for our future. 

World to still pay insurance premiums and their, their, uh, payouts are going through the roof if [00:42:00] they're directly exposed to extreme weather and they're just pulling out of regions and places. So there's a very interesting, we should do a whole series probably on that. Uh, the other point you mentioned, super interesting renewable energy, the last five years have just continued to plummet, uh, the costs of that, the deployment cost for anybody that hasn't really kept up with solar prices, for instance, and the revolution happening in, in East Africa with electric mobility as well. 

Pakistan is. Through the roof in terms of actually literally on the roof, uh, in terms of solar, completely under the radar. I didn't make that pun intended. Uh, but follow some of that exponential deep tech on, on solar because we might be in a position relatively soon where we're going to, uh, and already in some places, what do we do with all the solar between 12 and three? 

Like there are curtailments like you, you produce more and you can't really sell it. Are we gonna produce our own arre? Are we gonna freeze it? Are we gonna run a data centre? Are we gonna charge a 

Anastasia Volkova: right. Do you use that energy 

Koen: It's 

Anastasia Volkova: produce something like green ammonia? Do you use the energy for some other intensive purposes? Do you have the power in and the capacity to do [00:43:00] that? Uh, but definitely, uh, countries in Asia also speaking about compute as an export. So for example, if it's a lot cheaper for you to run. 

Loads in the data centre at that time. Do we render all the movies at that time or do something analysis compute intensive? It's really being thought about as an opportunity for expert, given that the energy transformation with renewables now unlocks this capacity. Yeah. 

Koen: Which, and I didn't think, I mean, I thought, I've heard some farmers talk about it, I think in, in the Netherlands, like, but the costs were still. Too much, but it's gonna be very soon. That's no longer gonna be an issue and we're gonna think, yeah, what to do with that extra, extra energy. I wanna be conscious of your time as well, and ask one final question. 

What have you changed your mind about in the last five years? What has been really like, okay, I was quiet on that bandwagon, but actually doesn't work. Doesn't happen. Or maybe something I'm actually super convinced about X, Y, Z now compared to five years ago, because it's nice. We talked about like sort of at the beginning of the company, like in the middle of the company, now we're 10 years and. 

I'm [00:44:00] not saying we should wait another five, but it's a, it's a nice rhythm in that sense. You're almost 10. 

Anastasia Volkova: Absolutely. Um. Okay, you will get a little confession for me. So this realisation only happened late last year after we've celebrated nine, and maybe this is gonna be embarrassing for me to listen to in three to five years when we do another episode. Um, given just for listeners, con and I do talk to each other more often, but apparently Regrow goes through these important cycles that we need to update everybody on five year milestone trajectory. Yes. Well, maybe I'm not gonna wait that long 

Koen: I was gonna ask, are there, are there on the books, but that's maybe I I, I'm sure they are. It is. It's an interesting landscape at the 

Anastasia Volkova: That's right. Hold your horses. Um, but I would say my realisation was that maybe as young and ambitious as I was when I started the business, I thought that by putting energy into it kind of almost. Not so handily 'cause it's the entire company, but our team with our customers, we could move the needle so [00:45:00] substantially. 

And I think we've achieved a lot because we've recruited the biggest names in the industry to work with us, and I think we've achieved a lot together. I don't think the recognition of Jen or MRV or Insights would've been where it's at without regrow demonstrated global scalability and the corporate partnership around it. 

Um. But that was like the main vehicle as a translation of our theory of change. Partner with corporates and supply chain and try to implement incentives because that will get the flywheel moving, that will start trickling the water onto the mill, um, wheel. Now what I think the next phase will look like, given it's a very clear five year cut from that merger to now. 

Is actually working a lot more closely with the local communities because we've engaged the capital that is willing. I'm not saying there's not more capital than it's willing, but I think in two to three years we will see a lot of companies getting a. Off of their seats getting up and [00:46:00] starting to move forward because 2030 will be very, very close, and supply chain disruptions will cost them more and more every year. 

Whilst right now there may be a fund in a small project, there will be funding in a much larger one. But just like what I said five years ago. I do have a lot more conviction in it now that landscape level action will actually be the next unlock that we need. And I'm finally certain to see that people do want the co-benefits. 

They do want to partner with local entities, and it's not. Just lip service. Oh, we should partner and let's have this demagogy. This is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is when you exert all that energy for 10 years trying to change something that you think is good for the world and recruiting everybody in your path of trying to amass the followership, you then stop and realise that maybe there's a more efficient way of using your energy, and it is. 

Connecting the dots in the network in which things can flow more organically. And so to me, there's a bit of a shift into the living systems [00:47:00] mindset. That probably took me a very long time because things that I was doing, they were working. So I didn't change my mindset until they stopped working at the rate at which I wanted them to. 

And now I'm really excited about what that living systems mindset and finding our role in between communities and supply chain actors. And folks that are financing the system, how can we unlock it? And, um, it's an exploration, but I do believe there will be more landscape level collaborations that will come out of that. 

And we'll just continue to try to be in service of all of these projects, lowering the prices and improving the quality and just keep on keeping on. Um, we need to continue to invest in our own resilience so we can see the change we wanna see. 

Koen: Thank you so much. I don't think there's a better way to wrap this up. I don't think it's gonna be another five. Um, looking forward to checking in on that specifically. I think landscape scale is, and watershed, whatever bio-regional, uh, whatever term we want to give to it is such an interesting path and such an under, um, under-resourced and overlooked, [00:48:00] neglected, uh, any, any term you can come up with. 

It's such a big lever, so I'm very interested. We talked about it last time as well. Um, so figuring out what to plan, where and why, what to change in a landscape, what are the nodal points? Where should we focus on? And we're very close. And if not, actually we are there at a level we can start asking those questions. 

And see, okay, these are the crucial points first, and then the next, not that any, any farm is important, any piece of land is, but some are more urgent, uh, uh, with limited resources. We need to focus somewhere. And that's a, a system change, uh, and a living system mindset. And there's a lot happening on the ground, which we have to incorporate. 

And how do you sort of supercharge that, I think is a very, very meaningful strategy. So thank you so much for coming on here, uh, to talk about some important news and general check in. And thank you so much for the work you do. 

Anastasia Volkova: Thank you Coen for supporting us all and excited for the listeners to tell us what they thought, comments, thoughts, and, uh, keep, keep up with us. Skies, uh, connect with us online and we're real people we want to help. Uh, if you think you'd have a good use of that data that I kept talking about, uh, please [00:49:00] reach out, hope there's a collaboration. 

You're you're part of the ecosystem. Um, let's be friends. 

Koen van Seijen: : Thank you so much for listening all the way to the end. I'm very curious what you think of this one. We often use the words MRV, but don't really, um, go into depth with an entrepreneur in that space. Also, someone that really asks for more regulation or clearer regulation, let's say. Um, of course, we'll, we'll go deeper into that around carbon in our carbon series with OGCR, um, and, and really interesting to see that merchants and acquisitions are happening. 

And that even in all the noise about no sustainability, no focus on sustainability and that's all outdated and blah, blah, blah, that actually resilience is, is really driving a lot of these conversations. And, uh, groups that are exposed to that and are exposed to these extreme weather events are starting to to do more luckily. 

So it's, uh, encouraging to see it's not an easy journey to almost 10 years in a 10 year overnight success as they like to say. And, uh, but I'm [00:50:00] really, uh, interested to follow this. Like there's so much we can see from space and so much we can structure better in terms of incentives and on a watershed or, or landscape level to figure out where to intervene or where to incentivize farmers more to improve water quality and to, um, really build a resilient agriculture system that can withstand the shocks. 

And I think the data she shared. It's very clear, like I'm looking at the quote again. The only fields that are standing, the only grounds that you can work and get out onto are those that are regenerative. Uh, there's no, there's no word that we don't understand there. Like, it's very, very clear. And I think that message has still lands still today. 

It was on LinkedIn. And so some comments, reac is BS and blah, blah, blah. Don't use the term, um, it doesn't mean anything. La la, la, la. Um. I guess those people have to catch up with science. And Asta was saying since 2019 you can see a lot of this data and it just gets clear and clear and yeah, it takes five to 10 years for the rest of the world to catch up. 

So let's hope we're close to that. I'm really curious what you thought of this episode we recorded in the middle of the war, um, of one of the many obviously, but [00:51:00] Theran Wars, I don't know what happened, of course, when you listen to this, uh, but it's definitely, uh, um. Um, very disruptive time in terms of fertiliser prices. 

Of course, all the life's affected, but just, just on the commodity side of fertiliser prices of gas prices, energy prices, um, and, um, I'm afraid it's gonna stay with us for a bit. So I hope you're safe. When listening to this and stay resilient, stay regenerative and focus on soil. Let us know anything you want in the comments, e on social media through the website. 

We read everything. Um, and yeah, let us know. And as always, thank you for listening and hope to see you at the next one. 

Koen van Seijen: This podcast is part of the AI for Soil Health Project, which aims to help farmers and policy makers by providing new tools, powered by AI to monitor and predict soil health across Europe. For more information, visit AI for soil health.eu or find a link below.  

Koen van Seijen: Thank you for listening all the way to the end. For show notes and links discussed, check out our website, investing in regenerative [00:52:00] agriculture.com/posts. If you like this episode, why not share it with a friend and get in touch with us on social media or website or via Spotify app and tell us what you like most and give us a rating on Apple Podcast or Spotify or your podcast player that really, really helps us. 

Thanks again and see you next time.