And so it's a scary thing to leave that, but you can't stay in an abusive relationship. Just again, just like domestic violence or you're being abused as a kid, you can't stay in that environment. It ain't gonna work no matter what you do.
SPEAKER_01Firehouse Vigilance presents the weekly scrap, a podcast dedicated to the never-ending fight against complacency.
SPEAKER_02Horley Moore, Firehouse Vigilance, Weekly Scrap, number 352. My guest tonight is Stickers himself, Michael Goldstein. Mike is married to his beautiful wife, Krista. Together, they have twin girls. Mike has been involved in the first responder field for over 20 years. He started his career on the dispatching side of things and then transitioned into the fire service. Mike has been a firefighter for 14 years, currently a firefighter EMT in the state of New Hampshire. Mike is the man behind the Can Report, which is a badass firefighter podcast. And it was born out of a love to bring others stories of successes, struggles, and triumphs. I am excited to say this. Welcome, my brother, Michael Goldstein, for episode number 352 of the scrap.
unknownWoo!
SPEAKER_04Nozzle top, my man. Thank you so much for having me on here. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02I'm excited for our conversation, my brother. I really am. We just we just basically spent a week together, and I was like, man, we can decompress and discuss.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. I'm excited for it. I'm excited for the conversation. Uh the feedback's been good. Uh, the the board's been lighting up. Let's let's do this. Let's go.
SPEAKER_02Is there anything you want to add to the intro? Anything you want to say that I left out or anything important, passionate about right now? Anything like that?
SPEAKER_04The intro was all you and you nailed it, sir. Thank you very much. That was uh fantastic, and there's nothing I would add to that.
SPEAKER_02That's why I keep you coming back. So everything in the fire service gets tested. Training, instincts, equipment. That's why Snaptight delivers the fire hose that performs no matter the challenge. Durability, packability, kink resistance. Every line is tested before it leaves the factory because when you stretch a line, there's no room for guesswork. At Snaptight, they have experienced reps that know their stuff inside and out, and they're ready to help you and answer all of your questions because knowledge is power. And at Snaptight, they have both. Visit Snaptighthose.com to connect with a rep and start building your ideal hose and nozzle package today. Snaptight, American made, firefighter trusted. If you oh yeah, visit fire stationfurniture.com. They provide a complete line of quality furniture for your firehouse. They are firefighter owned and operated, they understand the strain firefighters put on furniture, and they offer furniture that is built to last. Visit fire stationfurniture.com for more information. And then first do operations. It's a fire conference next week. Coming up next week, unbelievable lineup. Two days of lectures, one day of hot. Uh you get to see everybody lecture on the first day. There's hot tracks, there's leadership tracks, there's tactics tracks. It's amazing. First do operations conference. Go check it out. Not too late to sign up. Show up. I will be there all week. It's going to be a good time. Uh the lineup is amazing. And so go check it out. And of course, Flame Decon, one of my absolute favorite things in the world. I got to see Tara, hug her neck, and say thank you for making the soap you make. Wash that nasty stuff off you. Use flame decon soap. And with that being said, sponsors are done. We're ready to scrap. Michael, you know, I send out a I'll quit calling you Michael now. Mike, I send out a uh what do you want to talk about email every to every guest and say, hey, what are you passionate about right now? What what do you want to lead off and kick off with on the discussion? And of course, we got to start off by talking about the big show. FDIC. Yeah, FD. We got to talk about it because we just got back. I'm still kind of I I had to ask you before we went live. I said, Were you at the vigilante meetup? Because you don't I had to preface it by saying, Don't take offense to this, please. Uh, because even Marshall Boyd at the airport the next day, I was I was like, Hey, did uh did I see you there? And he was like, Yeah, he showed me a picture of that we took while we were there. So that's the that's the amount of craziness that that it is. What was your takeaways? Talk to me about the FDIC experience this year.
SPEAKER_04Oh, bro, the FDIC experience was crazy. Well, this for me was the first time doing something different. So every time I've gone was under my departments. So the first time as a student, yeah. So the first time I went was over 10 years ago for my previous department. And it was, I was thinking about this today. I was watching Willy Wonka laying in bed because I got a bit of a cold. So I was like just relaxing before the big show tonight. And I was watching Willy Wonka, and when Charlie is waiting at the gates with everybody else, right? And they're waiting for the gates to open, and here comes Willy Wonka, and you know, they've they're dying to get inside because of all the wonders and their excitement. That's how it felt like FDIC for my first time, right? Like, I think that for anybody, right? Just that that scene of him opening the doors, and you don't know what's going to be inside, and you're just so excited and you're the anticipation.
SPEAKER_00Sure.
SPEAKER_04And every year it feels like that, right? You don't know who am I gonna see, what new things are gonna be there. I can't wait to see the instructors or the presenters.
SPEAKER_02I just the whole wonderment of will I will I get into the class? I want will I have a good thing for the keynote? You know, all that. No, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04So the two years I went, it was per department, but this last this year was different where I could be the kin report, I could be Mike and just do my thing. I didn't have to worry about taking the class and going home and making sure that I had my report ready for my fire department. Uh, so this was uh a whole different venue. And for me on this level was I don't know who's watching, I don't know who's listening, right? You know, we we don't know what's going on in the outside world of podcasting.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_04So when I start walking down the street and people are like, hey, stickers, or hey Mike, like who's this guy? And all of a sudden I realized, oh shit, they're actually watching me. Right. So like it was that whole different experience of actually meeting all these amazing people who actually are watching the show and then getting to actually be on the inside of it of being under Firefighter Nation and doing the wellness stage and being a part of the podcast for FDIC booth. It was a whole different world, and it was exciting, still exciting, whether you're a student or being a part of the the whole Clarin Media Group. So it was an excellent year. I felt honestly, I felt the energy was super positive this year. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what it was, but I was walking through everything, and I don't know if you felt that, but like I felt like everybody was just man, just good spirit. Everything that's going on in the world, right? We got a lot of shit that's going on. No doubt. Inside those halls, it felt so positive.
SPEAKER_02I didn't think that's the way that's a good idea was on the vibe was on point as far as the energy. And I I don't know if it's the hits, I don't know if it's the David Rhodes and his is pushing for innovation and and and I don't want to say innovation or change for the sake of change because that's not it, but he's always looking for how can we improve this? What can we uh you know going down to one set of opening ceremonies, opening up more classrooms. Uh, it was just like you said, it was just a great vibe inside the conference center.
SPEAKER_04I also feel that the the tornado, when it touched down, brought everyone together because everybody feared for the that raised an eyebrow.
SPEAKER_02This the tornado sirens actually checked and said, when do they test the tornado sirens? Because that's every Saturday for us. Like they fire them up. And uh, but it's just a test. And I was like, Oh, this is not a test. Had to put it on the radar to see.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but so the hits, I thought those were that I thought that was a badass idea. I liked it very much. Uh, the 20 minutes were just punched, you know, and that's what I love it. Like listening to Justin McWilliams, listening to you, listening to Todd Edwards, where you took the meat of your your presentations and you you took that punch factor. You only had the 20 minutes, so you need to make sure you get a hit. Make you go, yeah. Makes you go. So you didn't have time to warm up. So you had to make sure you were getting the the meat of it. And you guys did a great job with delivering just that. And unfortunately, I missed a bunch of others because I was wandering around trying to get to different venues.
SPEAKER_02If you caught them all, you missed all the rest. If you caught all of them, you missed the rest of the conference. So it was uh FDIC always the probably the number one thing is how do you take it all in? You can't, you're gonna miss something at some point. There's always something going on.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I mean, there's and then you know, you got the so I got to meet up with Mike Matros of Red Line Fire Gear Cleaning.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we've been out there in front of the Lucas Over.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, the operation, because that's what I really wanted to see. I had him on the show last year, and I said, dude, when I go back out there, I gotta see you in action. Right on. It's amazing what they do. I mean, they they they wash almost a thousand sets of gear, they had 10 trucks, 75 employees, uh, just well-oiled machine, and nobody really knows what's going on other than they're getting their gear cleaned, right? And and they didn't have to pay extra for it. Just another thing that FDIC adds to that experience. If you're taking the hot classes and you got your gear, you can actually get it washed, get it back home, and they give you a free gear bag. I don't get paid for that for that, but you know, it's just I'm saying it's like that's that level, right? That's that there's this this whole uh experience that you get. And and I mean if you if you don't walk away with your bags heavy, heavier, and you know, with extra shirts, hats, coins, bags, whatever it might be, then you're doing it wrong because there's a lot of free stuff they give out as well.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the floor show. Once you hit the floor show, and then and and when you say floor show, it does not do it. You have to see it in person to even understand the enormity, but it is called the big show for a reason. So no, it was uh overwhelming in the most in the greatest way. Like like you leave and it takes a couple days to recover from just the constant go, go, go, go, go. So that being said, we talked about F Dick. We talked about F Dick.
SPEAKER_04I love that.
SPEAKER_02I'm not gonna talk about our nation. I probably they probably won't appreciate that, but um absolutely amazing time. So we'll talk about uh the topics you wanted to discuss, which is that this is a hot button topic, period. Yeah, so I want to dig into it.
SPEAKER_04I mean Did you want to talk about how we did decompress though? About the coming back home.
SPEAKER_02Do you have do you have a a secret to decompressing?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, just go back to work.
SPEAKER_02Gotcha.
SPEAKER_04Because I literally like I hadn't read it in one of that. Yeah, I just went right back into it. And actually, it kind of worked that way because when I got back to work, it was mellow. So like it was I was back into work mode. Like I was ready to rock. I was ready to work. And honestly, on the plane home, I was like, all right, I'm ready to go back to work. I'm my batteries have been recharged. Yeah. And all that energy I had over there, I had a day, I had a day between. So if anybody comes back from FDIC, you need that break in between. You can't just jump right into work. Like I had a day or two off. So give yourself literally if you spent the whole week at FDIC, you need at least two days off before you go back to your grind because it's just you're not gonna be, you're not gonna be ready.
SPEAKER_02So I agree with it, right?
SPEAKER_04So at least two days off. It's like Vegas. You if you take a whole week in Vegas, you're you need a whole week off to recover. FDIC, it's like a it's like Disneyland and Disney World in Vegas for firefighters. You need at least those two days off to get yourself straight. Say, you know, come home, see your wife and kids, and then go to your shifts like two days later.
SPEAKER_02Love it. No doubt about it. And uh, and this was the first one for me where I wasn't on duty when I came home. So yeah, that's nice. I've always been on duty before coming back. So for me, it was just fighting to make sure I got back to the gym because I didn't work out when I was at FDIC. Some people do, some people do, but man, it's a I was I was struggling just to go put my feet up each day and say, God, I get some blood flowing. But yeah. Um, but no, the vigilantes keep me accountable. I have to post my accountability pick, get my workouts in. And so absolutely okay. Topic number one, hot button topic. I love this discussion, and it's organizational betrayal.
SPEAKER_04Amen.
SPEAKER_02Learning to do the right thing from the wrong people working for narcissists and living with abusive relationships. Man, there's so much to unpack here, but let's start with the organizational betrayal. What do you mean by that? And give me stickers like secrets to success when dealing with organizational betrayal.
SPEAKER_04You know, it's amazing. Yeah, the organization, organizational betrayal. Um, it's not everybody is gonna experience it. I hope they don't, right? Nobody ever wishes that they experience those things, right? But when you do, that's that's a tough world to pull yourself out of. And for many years, I've dealt with that. And I really didn't know what it was because honestly, it was uh Kathy Edwards and Tracy McCart that wrote that article, Organizational Betrayal and How Their Spouses Deal with It. And it was a great article, so I had them on the show. And they they talk about how they deal with it, how they're as a spouse and also their husbands dealing with it. And it really opened up my eyes to that, and I didn't realize that's what it was. I knew I was just getting screwed over my department. You know, I knew that I was having issues. I knew I was working for this narcissist who was never wrong. And, you know, no matter how much you you're hurting, and no matter how much that they're literally doing the wrong thing, you're always gonna be that, you're always gonna be the one who's parently causing the problems, right? You're gonna be labeled as the disgruntled employee, you're labeled as the troublemaker, the complainer, and and even though you know, wait, this doesn't feel right. And so for me, I had many, many years of dealing that. And I'm not saying it all it was bad, like there was good times too. I had great times. I could go golfing with these guys, and especially the guy who you know who's running that department. We had a relationship and it just started to crumble again. It went up, it would crumble, it would go up and it would crumble. And um, you know, passed over for promotions and just dealing with just stuff you know that's not right, but you're the only one who can feel that because everybody else is scared of saying something, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and then the gaslighting going on, of course, at the same time from above, just depending on who you're dealing with.
SPEAKER_04But and it's tougher too when you don't have a union to back you, you don't have other people to fight for you. So when you go to complain, if say if you go to HR, for me it was it's a small town, it's a one department small town. If I go to HR, then HR is gonna go back to that chief or that captain and go, Hey, Mike Golsting just complained about you, and then so then he's gonna bring me into the office and go, Hey, asshole.
SPEAKER_02No, what's the problem here?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so then I had to deal with that cycle over and over again.
SPEAKER_02So you just eat it, and that's and and and literally, I don't want to use the word literally, but most people are in that position as far as the size of their departments because that's the average. I don't know what the average is. In fact, we have to grok it up or chat GPT at find out what the average, but I would I would guess that like a one to three station department is probably the average size department across the country, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Right, no, like in the curve department's four.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think I think that that once you get like to six, you're get starting to get into a larger department, you know, larger municipal municipality. And there is a lots of the smaller ones are merging across the country, and that's a big trend. But I do think that right now, I would say one to three is probably the average, three probably I don't know. That's what I'd stick my my money on.
SPEAKER_04But they so it is that small town feel of you can trust anyone either, right? So that because they build, you know, it's like um um survivor was the the show survivor, right? You have to build these alliances, right? And so they were building these alliances. So if I complained about being mistreated, that person I thought I could trust then immediately went to the chief and said, Hey, Mike's complaining again. He felt he feels targeted, he feels this, he feels that. And then all of a sudden I get a talking to while I'm in the bay, hey, I heard your complaint again, you need to let it go. The worst thing you could do, especially as an officer or somebody you know that somebody's not doing things, somebody's struggling, and you know like they're having some major issues, you need to learn how to let it go. That is not good therapy, that is not good advice. Just let it go. You need to learn to let it go. That doesn't work. There's something going on, and like I've said before, I didn't just become a bad employee. Like I didn't just become angry, like something made me that way, right? So, like I used to smile, I used to love my previous department. Everything was just so much fun. And then eventually it just started to drag. And I started to hate being there. I'd give myself pep talks in this in the in the parking lot before I went to the station. And it was a miserable existence. I had headaches all the time, migraines. Uh, I just felt unhealthy because it was always now angry and I felt like I couldn't trust anyone. And then, you know, then I'm a miserable, but then your chief comes in and goes, You need to learn to let it go. Instead of being like, hey, I know things aren't going well. How can I help you? That wasn't the case, right? It was you need to man up. And I understand we're the fire service, and we do need to man up, nut up, and get our job done. But at the same time, you also put on those bugles. So you do have to be that father figure and say, Hey, how can I make you better? Like something tore you down, and I don't know what it is. But unfortunately, again, narcissists, it's a whole different world. It's a disease. Like, narcissists don't know they're doing these things wrong, they just think it's everything's hunky dory. I'm always right, and you're always wrong. So that's that's the success of it for me was I eventually found the the nerve to leave right after years of feeling like I couldn't, years of feeling like you know, feeling trapped, feeling trapped and scared, like you know, again, 45 years old. And dude, am I gonna make it in another department? What if what if I don't like them? What if they don't like me? You know, because the the chief told me you leave, there's no coming back. Like I'm already.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it's not just that, but you got the devil you know, and and and you got the devil you don't know when you do make the are you jumping out of it just to jump into the exact same situation, but but yeah, no, that's a that's a that's a tough that a lot of people face.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and then you know, when you come back, like say we just talked about FDIC, we talk about these conferences, and you're excited, you know. So you go to these conferences, you come back and you want to give all this information, but no one gives a shit. Yeah, you know, so again, you they don't care about what you just learned and care about what you just did. You literally it's like you just came back from your day off, and no one cares about anything that you've done. So you sit there in silence with all this information and all this knowledge that you just absorbed that you're dying to give away, and nobody wants to hear it because you know the chief doesn't buy into it. If it's not what he buys into, he doesn't care. Like if I go to County Fire Tactics, if I go to um March Mayhem, if I go to any of these awesome conferences, and if he doesn't buy into it, then he's not gonna want to hear it. And he doesn't like new tactics. And I'm gonna say not my current department, but my previous one.
SPEAKER_02So and when there is no psych psychological safety, when he creates that that echo chamber and then you know, obviously the good old boy system and the the what are you just the silo and the self-reinforcing, the biases and all of that going on. Yes, so it creates just a negative culture that just eats its own.
SPEAKER_04And I was I was weak, man. I was I was a coward when I dealing with organizational betrayal, dealing with all this stuff. I was weak and a coward to stand up for myself and others. If I heard something that was blatantly wrong of what he was saying, like like like like HR wrong, like shit that shouldn't be said as a chief, right? I wouldn't I wouldn't say anything. You know, I would stand on the side with him and and and point my finger and laugh at the other person's being made fun of.
SPEAKER_02But you weren't alone in that. I mean, you had an entire department who stood by and and allowed it to go on. So that was the the culture you were in. So I'm not excusing it because I mean, it takes a special kind of person to be able to stand up and throw off the the the cloak and say, I'll be the I'll be the I'll be the one. Yeah, you know, and don't get me wrong, if everybody did that, we would fix a lot of the issues. I mean, that's that's a lot of Candace's message is to say enough's enough, start it at the bottom, you know.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. But that's why I love her so much because she she speaks the truth, right? And she she and she also let people know too, like you can't be a pussy all the time either. Like if things are wrong, then then man up and like figure the problem out and and and tackle it. Just don't sit there and complain all the time. Do something, do something, and that's what I finally did. I I made towards when I left, I had finally made peace, like this is apparently where I'm gonna stay, and I just have to play ball. Um, but then when I got the notification that I was gonna be moving on to a different department, I wasn't like peace out, and I roll rolled out the door. I was very nice about it. But um, if you walk through the halls of that department, there is no picture of Mike Goldstein on that department. There is no history of Mike Goldstein on the department, it is wiped clean. You didn't exist. I did not exist.
SPEAKER_02So, like, let's go back to what you said. Uh, do you how much of it it was what am I trying to say? Because one of the one of the things I try to try to preach and teach is build relationships if you want to make an if you want to make an impact in your organization. Was that just something you could not accomplish there because of the culture? Or was it something you were I don't using your words, you were just too chicken to do? Or what was the we tried.
SPEAKER_04I think uh a couple of us did try, and then just it would fall apart. We would try to do something like you know, just at least get together for drinks, right? Like we would we used to have back in the day, we used to have all these parties and we would do barbecues, and of course, this one person wasn't invited, and because he was the the killer of the party, and so when we get back to work, he would crap all over it. But what we were doing, we were building a bond with the our guy, our our guys on the floor, not to talk shit about him, but Larry tried to build that bond, a working bond, so like we can feel like brothers and sisters in our department. But instead, he was ripping it right through. So every time people tried to do things on the outside to build that positive relationship with each other, you end up getting made fun of. As soon as he heard, like you know, about a gathering or a party, he would hear about it and he would start shitting all over it. Oh, I hear you're doing this, I hear you're doing that. You're with the Quitters Club, all these things, and then you feel embarrassed for being a part of that group. So you then you stop because apparently people are talking about it, and then it gets back to him. So it was it's very difficult to try to build that culture up when it constantly is getting torn down. The passion, the energy, everything. And um, like we said, like you can mow your, you have to mow your own grass, right? Right? It can be better, it might be grass might be greener on the other side, but you have to water your own lawn. You got and then you gotta mow it. You know, you got to take care of it. You gotta take care of your own house. But if it's if it's still breaking and you're only just mowing that dead spot into your grass, it's time to move on. That patch is gone. The grass is not gonna grow. It is time to move on to greener pastures and see if that's gonna work for you.
SPEAKER_02Because you did find the the strength, the the resilience, whatever, whatever you want to call it. The no, this is I've well, you had an out, basically. You found another department that accepted you, right? It wasn't like you walked out the door and said, I'll figure it out.
SPEAKER_04Bro, I turned down, like I was when I took interviews. I when I got home and I know I nailed the interviews, I was nervous. I was anxious. I'm like, I hope I don't get the job. I was having anxiety about if I got offered a job. And now do I take it? Yeah. Because I have those thoughts in my head. Am I gonna make it? Am I gonna like it? Is it gonna be too tough? Am I gonna get paid? All these things are going through my head. So I literally would just hope and pray that I don't get a job offer. Because it was, I was afraid of leaving. It was a domestic violence relationship. You know, you know, you smack someone in the face, you go, I'm sorry, baby. I love you. And then you love him. Yeah. Exactly. And then you know, then next week it hits you in the face again. So it was a syndrome.
SPEAKER_00It is. You're your abuser has become your uh yeah, your partner.
SPEAKER_04But it's it can grow, but you can succeed, right? So you can like you unfortunately for me, it was having to leave. And I know not everybody has that option, but honestly, it's a buyer's market for the fire service.
SPEAKER_02That's what I'm saying. Right now, today, if you yeah, like voting with your feet is probably one of the best things you can do for a toxic if it is a true, and I mean a truly toxic environment, not just I disagree with the chief and he doesn't give me enough voice. You know, there's a there's levels to this, and we're talking truly toxic. I'm not saying hey, you don't like it, just up and leave, but it is a buyer's market, it is a huge buyer's market.
SPEAKER_04And I tell that people to people constantly who, especially in my area, that are still struggling. And I'm like, you can go to other places, really good places, they're hiring, just you got to get out of that comfort zone. And that's the biggest thing, right? There is that it's the comfort. I know my station, I know the district, I know everything about it, and now I'd have to go in and start from the ground up again. And I'm already, I've already cut my teeth. I'm the senior guy, like I don't want to do that all over again, right? But if you're if you know you're not happy, you're gonna have something's gonna have to give. Yeah, and everything has a cost, everything has a cost.
SPEAKER_02The cost of moving and uprooting, or the cost of staying and dealing with the environment that you're in. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04I loved working for the town I lived in. It was great. I could go to my kids' school, I got to see them when I did fire drills. Like, you know, I was stickers, the firefighter in in my town. People knew who I was. It was awesome feeling, and so it's a scary thing to leave that, but you can't stay in an abusive relationship, just again, just like domestic violence, or you're being abused as a kid. You can't stay in that environment, it ain't gonna work no matter what you do. And and when I had my ex interview when I finally left, my HR rep, she said, How come I didn't know any of this? I said, Because nobody told you, because everyone is scared, because they're scared, because he'll turn around and say, Then you can leave. I can fire you whenever I want to fire you. So that would be that scare point from so nobody would say anything, and they would just take it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, complete lack of psychological safety, just ready to rip. Right, just ready to rip.
SPEAKER_04And then we I always take a step further. Is now you think about that. You're in an environment where there's no growth, there's no encouragement, and you're scared constantly of screwing up. What do you think happens to you on the drill yard and the fire ground? Right now you have performance anxiety. Now you're gonna you're you're constantly in fear of fucking up.
SPEAKER_02So you ever draws back, like the the everyone draws back of training and drawing. I mean, I'd be surprised in that culture if they ever did any training because no one's gonna step out and put themselves up on the everyone was scared, and they were always scared to do something new and different.
SPEAKER_04That's the thing as I come back from these training environments. I'm like, I got a new way to do this, and it'd be like, No, that's not how we do it here, right? So you just sit there and go, All right, we'll do it your way then. And it was a really frustrating game, and then everybody would walk on pins and needles when it came to do the job, especially coming to do the job. Because once he arrived on scene, everyone's like, Oh shit, the chief's here. Make sure this is buckled up, make sure that everyone would make sure they are ready, like pristine. Right, that gear is absolutely perfect. Make sure you look good even if you aren't good, but make sure you look at it. Yeah, your flaps undone. This is not this, he would go off on you.
SPEAKER_02So, but let's put a bow on it because I do want to. I uh there's questions, and we got to involve the audience because they are the third part of these technically the fourth part of the scrap. You gotta include Sam. But the uh I want to put a bow on this because you did move, and let's hear the happy ending. Is there a happy ending? Is it are you are you uh cloud nine was the right move? Uh or go for it, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, dude, uh, it was absolutely the best move possible. Uh and it took me a while. Like I said, I actually turned down a few other jobs because it wasn't right for me. And then this happened to come right out of the blue. It was I wasn't expecting it. I had interviewed months ago, didn't hear anything back, and then they called me up and said we'd like to offer you a job. And I was on cloud nine. And I went to my wife, and but I still had the anxiety, and I said, I don't know. And she says, if you don't take this job, then you can't complain anymore. Because I'd come home and complain all the time. Right, right. He said this, he said this, blah, blah, blah. So she's like, You can't complain anymore. And that was what hit me. She's like, Fuck, you're right. Like, I either do it or not. Should have got off the pot. So I took that job, and it literally was the best move. They were so inviting, so welcoming. Um, I made sure I wasn't going in like Mr. Know It All. Oh, you know, I'm 45 years on. I've uh, you know, I'm 45 years old, I've got 10 years on already. Like, I know it all. No, I walked in, I can't, I knew I had to be the best proby there is, making sure my gear is on right, making sure I'm learning their SOPs. I'm grabbing a broom whenever I can. Well, you know, I'm I'm brushing that floor, I'm washing those trucks, I'm scrubbing those toilets because I want to make sure them them knowing that I'm appreciative of being here. That's the thing I think people forget too is that the the chores is not also just it's not manual labor just to break you, but it's to show appreciation that you're you're there, that they hired you. And you're you're gonna show that by taking pride in your department and taking pride in the rigs and taking pride that you are here on a department that you tried to get into. It'd be different. You walk through the doors all pissy already, and that's the hard part is coming from a bad environment, do you carry the chip on your shoulder or do you try to get rid of it and become the best person you can be?
SPEAKER_02No, and there's so much there's stuff there I want to dig into, but I want to include the audience because that that again, when you talk about chores and things like that and team building and all sorts of things. But Boat Dude 1113 is asking the first question of the evening. He says, Mike, now that you're in a new place, have you noticed that you have changed a little now that the constant beatdown is gone? And do you feel like it could still happen again?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, um, yeah. So definitely, I definitely noticed a difference. My health has gotten better. Um, I had some medical issues going on where I found I had a PFO, so like I had to get a procedure done to fix my migraines, I know all this other medical side. But my health did get better. My sleep got better. My sleep got better, even though our schedule sucks. My sleep was better. I woke up feeling like I actually slept. My brain was on fire when I was in my previous department. I've always I could not rest. And then once I got to the new department after a few months, it felt better. My attitude changed. I'm smiling all the time. People like always ask me, why is why are you always smiling? Like, I love being here. Right. I said, if you knew where I came from before, I was never smiling. Now I am. So yeah, the answer is question the big shift, big change. But yes, it can come back. Um, not within my department, but it within myself. Because again, it's like an abused child. I've had a bad relationship in when I was a child, abusive parents, abusive whole upbringing. It can get in your head. Same thing with the fire service. Like when you have that emotional damage from your officers, especially in the chief, it can it can really play with your head. Yeah. And so I would get in my head a lot while I was on the department. I'd always second guess myself. I would have these issues where I didn't feel good enough, or I, you know, I wasn't, I wasn't right for the job. Or I honestly, when I was sleeping uh on my shift, I uh I had a dream that my former chief and assistant chief walked into the department to meet with my chief to get me fired. It like was in my head. Like it fucked me up. Like, and that's the craziest thing. Like my childhood definitely screwed me up. This really screwed me up, and I had to seek therapy and talk to people. So, yes, it can come back, but it's it's a it's always a work in progress. When people have trauma in their lives or anything that goes on, you're gonna always be a work in progress. It's not a quick fix. If you leave and go to a new department and it's not gonna happen overnight, it's gonna take a lot of work, but it's gonna take a lot of work with yourself to understand that you need to work harder so you don't have those second guessings, you don't have the reluctance of actually doing more, feeling that you're gonna get knocked down. Because they're now like my department is they're always saying that, dude, we're here for you. Show us all these things that you know, and I love that, but that's the hard thing is like you have that self-doubt. So, yes, it is a great change, but you also need to vet the department too. You can't just jump in the first thing that offers you. That's like I always tell people do ride times, uh, talk to the crews because you can interview the crews, right? What do you think about this department? We're firefighters, we're always gonna tell people the truth, right? This place sucks. Don't come here. Or no, I really like it here. They let me do this and let me do that. So um I did. I asked a lot of questions. And honestly, with my new department, I had interviewed three times. No, no, I had scheduled my interview three times because I kept canceling because I was afraid that they were gonna offer me the job. So I continued to cancel my appointments.
SPEAKER_02And one thing I would be remiss without adding this on that, on top of that question, kind of on topic, but not off topic, is keep in mind if you change departments, all the problems that are because of you are gonna go with you. And and so it, yes, you may be coming from a very toxic place. Yes, there may be a toxic leadership or even toxic peers. But if there's problems with you, you're gonna take those to the new place, and you have to keep that in mind to fix the mirror.
SPEAKER_04Oh, I'm so glad you said that because it's absolutely true. If you go to one department to another department, another department is always a problem. You're the problem.
SPEAKER_02No doubt about it. Uh, but I just but uh so check the mirror first, always check the mirror. And and that goes for not just swapping departments, that goes in in general. Absolutely. Check the mirror. Uh Andrew Monin coming at you. What are the early signs that organizational betrayal is showing up in a crew before it becomes obvious in performance or morale?
SPEAKER_04That's a tough like you know, for me, organizational betrayal. I don't think it's as a crew. I think it has to do with an individual because it f it for me. I noticed it takes each person differently. So some people don't really get bothered by it, they relive their lives, and they're I don't care. You know, it's they're great, they have their own mindset, they're in their own world. That's great. So it doesn't affect them. I don't think organizational betrayal.
SPEAKER_02I just want to dig in on that real quick and say, do you think that's more people who are just not into the job where it's like, hey, this is just a paycheck? Jobs are like this everywhere. You have bad bosses, you just do your job and go home.
SPEAKER_04I think it's for the people who really feel that whole betrayal, if you will, are the ones who really give a shit, like really like hardcore in the job, like like us, like the audience that are that is here tonight. The scrappers, the vigilantes, the vigilantes. It's because you give a shit and you're passionate and you you have emotion for this. So when you're at a department, and especially for a chief, because organizational betrayal is not department-wide, it's one person, it's one person that is just either you you're targeted by or just doesn't understand the crew, right? So if you're if he's attacking the whole crew, then yeah, I could have a culture problem and it's gonna develop pretty fast. And again, my history in that previous one is that it did starting it affected me, and what happened, though, you know what? I'm gonna change it. It can affect the whole crew because if it started affecting me, then I was affecting the whole crew. I was mad, I was angry, and so now that toxicity was now coming down, just like that cancer we talk about, it was spreading amongst everyone. I was making everyone miserable because I was mad. So yeah, it affected the whole culture of that crew because Mike Goldstein was mad. I'm gonna make everybody else pay for my the fact that I'm unhappy, right? And nobody wanted to be around me.
SPEAKER_02And at the end of the day, it is your choice, it is your choice, but it's still the environment you're in, and that's the that's the tough part about it because yeah, and the higher up the toxicity is located, the more it's affecting down the chain of command, down the the organizational strip flow chart, yeah, etc. So no great questions coming in, man. I'm I'm gonna try and get to more questions. We've had a thing of of not getting to enough questions, and they are they are already stacking up on you. I think Sam's on like page five of questions.
SPEAKER_04By the way, I love the audience. Uh, you guys are awesome. I just want to say that the guys are fucking fantastic.
SPEAKER_02I'll stack the audience up against any podcast uh audience ever, and that's like I'll fight people about they're the best. I I won't uh there's a lot better hosts, there's a lot better uh podcast, but there's no better audience. Okay team Woodruff goes 7076 says question best way to hold the culture slash discipline when you're the temporary officer, but not formal. I'm not sure if I understand that, but maybe you do crews looking at you at the same level, so they buck the line. So, like more like the senior man level, like the you know best way to hold the culture discipline when you're the temporary officer, but not maybe just writing out right now, yeah. Injury write out, injury write out, maybe short-term write out.
SPEAKER_04I I guess to to hold that line is uh is is to be real. Um, is to if a crew is complaining, like you typical, right? Like if you got it's things you need to do, you need to swap into a truck at nine o'clock at night and you don't want to do it because it's nine o'clock at night, you're gonna have to do it. Like the officer said, we need to do this. It wasn't like he said, you know what, I'm gonna just make you all pay. I want to swap out of this crap, you know, our new our nice truck and go into a crap truck. No, it needed to be done. So as an officer, you need to stand behind that decision. And when those crew start complaining and start and continue to complain, if you're the officer or the stand-in officer or even the senior guy, then you need to stand up and say, No, hold on a second. The lieutenant just gave us a direction. We need to do it. I know it sucks, but let's just do it. So taking the 20 minutes to complain ain't solving any any any problems, right? Like, do the job. If the officer gives you an order, it's because it came from higher up and he doesn't have a choice. So just do it. So if you're the if you're the stand-in or if you're the senior guy and crews are complaining about something that's beyond our control, then it should be us holding that line and holding that standard and said, Yeah, we're just gonna get the job done. It's because what happens when you if you're if you're arguing or debating about swapping into that truck, now you're gonna do the same thing on a structure fire, or we're gonna do cleanup and mop up after a structure fire, right? Hey, I need you guys to roll this 500 feet of hose. It's gonna suck, but you could tell them no, like it needs to get done. So it's just it's it kind of holds that line. Like, I don't want people complaining about having to change out of trucks, I because I don't want them to complain on the structure side of it and say, no, I don't want to go do this either, because that's what's gonna happen. So holding that line, it's I guess as whether you're in a a leader or an informal leader, it's all of us to make sure our culture is nice, our crew is is dialed in and uniformed.
SPEAKER_02I hope that's a good idea. And yeah, no, no, and it's a great, it's a great question to dig into. And the uh I don't know why I'm saying dig into. That's my that's my word of the night. But but to dig into, uh absolutely now my brain's going, I can't stop it. The uh no matter what level you're at, whether you're the senior man, whether you're the proby, whether if you're the write-out officer, if you're the permanent officer, there comes a choice each and every shift. I mean, every day of your life, but each and every shift on duty, where you you're gonna face that point where you say, Am I gonna hold this standard that I that I've said to myself, whether it's the organizational standard or your personal standard, you're gonna hit that point and you have an option to go left or right. And and no one's holding a gun to your head. And but bottom line is that's gonna set the standard for what's gonna be allowed in in your own mind, no matter what level you're at.
SPEAKER_04Absolutely. Man, these are great questions, these are thinking questions.
SPEAKER_02Uh Justin Champion, five, eight, nine, one. I'm trying to build something to help others with mental health, but I keep running into negativity and people telling me I'll never have the reach to matter. How do you how do you stay focused?
SPEAKER_04Wow, Justin Champion from New Mexico, my man, from the ashes. That's a great question. Um, yeah, uh how do you stay focused? Like again, if your mission is is pure and organic and there for the men and women of your department, then you you're you you're keep straight, man. Keep going. Like no one's gonna stop you if you believe in yourself and you can keep getting knocked down. But if you if it's something you string you believe in so vehemently, then keep going. Don't stop. And that's really what it comes to anything in life. Like what we do in this world and what we do in firefighting, like we we have a passion, we have a love for it. Don't stop. So if you know you have a mental health issue in your department, that's important, it's super important. If you feel there's an area lacking in your department because of it, then keep going, don't stop. It doesn't matter. And if and if that if the higher ups in your department don't want to listen, then take it to somebody else who's higher than them that will listen because it shouldn't stop. So that's a problem. We hit that wall and then we stop because well, now it's too much work, or no one's ever going to listen to me. Someone eventually is going to listen, right? But you have to hit the right strings, you have to reach the right person. And honestly, paper trails is a really great thing. So if you're if you're documenting all these issues in your department and you're having mental health issues and people are struggling and no one's listening to them, and you're leaving these, you're writing emails and paper trails of like this bad shit's happened on this day and that day. You've documented all these issues. So then when you present it to either your selectman, the mayor, or a chief or whomever else is above them, here, here are all the issues that they wouldn't listen to. And then they can't they can't dispute that, right?
SPEAKER_02And firefighters hate hate documenting. They do. I know it's built into our DNA. Like, nah, I won't, I won't write this down. I've had I'll lock it in eyes.
SPEAKER_04Well, I've had dudes come up to me. I and I don't throw any on the bus, but I've had I've had people talk to me recently in my area about some issues, and this biggest thing I always tell them is is get a paper trail. Right.
SPEAKER_02No, because it's just a spiral bound notebook and say, write the date, right, write, record what occurred, because I promise you, you will forget the details.
SPEAKER_04You will because you can't say, well, on May 15th in 2023, he said this. That doesn't work. You've got to actually have documentation of what the issue was. And I honestly, those are things I wish I did. Yeah, no, I wish I wrote them down.
SPEAKER_02I'm speaking of this from experience of not writing it down. Do as I do as I tell you to do now with hind with the benefit of hindsight, not as I did. Not as I did. Uh, I love this question coming from Aaron Burkholder. What advice? Because it's all about podcasts here, what advice would you give to help share podcasts with your crew when another member of the department has created disdain for podcasts?
SPEAKER_04Well, just do it, man. I mean, if he has disdain for it, show him. You know what? There's so many great podcasts, whether it's a fire service-related podcast or not, there's so many good ones out there. So find a guest that maybe everyone can relate to, right? Like, honestly, one of my favorites was Rob Ameris because he broke it down on my show about cutters. Yeah, and because it's something I'm real passionate about, right? And like I'm like, Rob, because people are not watching some of this, so I want you to literally take 30 minutes and describe what the cutters are and what they're doing, the shape and everything, and the reasons, reasons for those shapes and the and the non-line, anyway, and the spring. So maybe your crew is passionate about that. Like, if you have a if you have a department of crew that loves search, that loves writ, that loves all that stuff, then like, hey man, I I have this guy on here. I have basil, I have Rob, I have whoever, you know, I have Sean Duffy. You know, the guys that that literally are so so passionate about this stuff and talking about it, they're gonna listen. Or maybe it's something about hosework. You know, you get Kyle on, right? You know, you you get some of those, you know, those guys who absolutely are just wizards with it. Or maybe it's about the surveys, but anything that comes on, somebody's gonna be passionate about something. And that naysayer who has disdain for podcasts, I guarantee he's gonna listen. Just throw it on, make it really loud, put it on your big TV, and you can say you're not invited, and just watch what happens. I guarantee that person will start floating in, and like you'll be sitting at you'll be standing at the door jam going, What are you guys listening to? He'll get a little closer.
SPEAKER_02I just want to understand why this one person who hates podcasts has so much power to determine what the crew like where does he get this? This we're gonna discuss Candace a bunch tonight, obviously, because yeah, shut that uh just shut it down.
SPEAKER_04Shut it down. That's what she said, right? Shut it down. Tell him to knock that shit off. I think that's a or put it stop being a pussy and tell him to shut it down, Candace Ashby.
SPEAKER_02About a boot in an ass at some point, or no, not today, honey. That's a pretty good invitation. Uh I like we got one more here on this topic, and then I'm gonna I'm gonna pivot to McGinn. Question from Andrew Walk 67. I have been learning that having a spouse that supports is a good thing, and that's that statement right there is true no matter what you're talking, firefighting or not, but it's especially true in firefighting. But what is the best way into including your wife and keeping the best communication no matter what?
SPEAKER_04Uh, and just like our lives, and you can take it whatever direction you want.
SPEAKER_02I think he's asking about firefighting, but I mean, app I think it's applicable. So sure.
SPEAKER_04Uh we should be obviously like you said, like our wives, man, are our foundations. They're they're they're how our houses are built. Yeah. You know, if we didn't have them as our foundations, our house would fall apart, right? It would collapse. And I write about that because I I love my wife. I love how supportive she is. I mean, she has seen me through some bad shit, and she's still here. She lets me sit up here, talk to you for hours, and talk to everybody else for hours. And and I I always included in her uh of everything went on for work, even if it was just bitching about work, you know. But for me, I felt like it was giving too much about work when I was having my bad times. I'd come home and complain constantly to her. And I don't feel that's what she signed up for. I would talk about work, but then I also felt really guilty for constantly complaining. He said this, he said that, I don't like this, I don't like that. And I would just literally do that for hours. And then finally one day I'm like, I don't think she wants to listen to this anymore. That's not what she signed up for. They want to be here and she will say, like, no, I want to listen, please. That's what I'm here for. But you start feeling guilty for constantly unloading. So, yes, include your wives. Always include your wives. Communication is key, just like in the fire service. We don't communicate, bad things happen, right? In our family, in our lives, in our marriage. If you don't communicate, bad things happen, things fall apart, things get missed. You have to have an open form of communication. As much as it might be embarrassing or you don't want to say things, that's when bad shit starts to slide. Absolutely. So you need to make sure you include your wife in everything that you do because you don't want any secrets. Because it might not be something that seems like a big secret to you, but to her it is. And if she has to find out through somebody else, that's bad Bamba Jam right there. So you need to make sure that you're actually keeping open forms of communication.
SPEAKER_02Boom. No, it's great. Great, great answer. And uh me and Amanda, if anybody knows Amanda, you know that she is the absolute uh hype rock foundation that makes everything go. So, long story short, having a wife on your side makes you unstoppable.
SPEAKER_04Unstoppable. Like it's and
SPEAKER_02And the and this is something that I wish more people, more women, spouses, I should say spouses, because it goes both ways. In the fire service, we're male dominated, but it goes both ways. But the uh most spouses don't understand is how detrimental it is when your spouse is it's not even negative, it's just non-supportive. Like it destroys, it destroys potential. So it's just so destructive. Like if you want to talk about uh organizational betrayal, relationship betrayal, when you get torn down instead of built up by your partner, it it will destroy the potential of anybody. So, anyway, that's a that's a thing I'm very passionate about.
SPEAKER_04No, and and your wife, man, I absolutely love Amanda by the way. She is awesome. And like she like I said, she inspired me to do the you know with the wing picks, and like she inspired me to write about my the wing picks and everything. Like, I think she's an amazing lady. I hope she enjoys the syrup.
SPEAKER_02No doubt. Wait, we've got it set aside. You know, her brother taps maple trees up in Minnesota every you know, I think spring, and we get maple syrup here. So we're anxious to compare what you provided versus because we're we're she's gonna like it. We're basically maple syrup syrup snobs, is what I'm saying. We were spoiled by her brother. So McGinn coming at you.
SPEAKER_04Oh boy, here we go, Mr. McGinn. I know he's passionate about this stuff.
SPEAKER_02What do firefighters need to know about dispatch that we don't know? And what does this dispatch need? See, I gotta say it like McGinn would. What does dispatch need to know about us?
SPEAKER_04Oh man, that's great. Uh I yeah, I I obviously was a dispatcher back in the day. I actually loved dispatching. That was something that was natural to me. I don't know what it was, it just made sense. As soon as I sat in that chair, it made sense. As a dispatcher, what we should know about firefighters or EMS or police um is that we they want the information, but they don't want it all right away. So I when I would dispatch, I wouldn't give you the whole boat right away. You know, it would be you're going, you're responding to I'm gonna give my address, 111 homestead circle, for you know, reported of smoke in the building. That's about all I'm gonna give you right there. And then once you guys click, you're gonna sign on, then I'm gonna give you that more information. Because if I overwhelm you, you guys aren't listening to me as soon as you get in the as you're roaming through those the bay, you're not listening anymore. You're getting your gear on, you're talking to each other, you're thinking about roots, you're thinking about something else. Because I know I do it every time we're getting ready and I get down to the bay. What did they say? Right, what's what's the address? You know, like it happens every time. And if I give you an update while you're still in the bay, you're not getting it. So as soon as I know that you're rolling out and you click in route, or you say you're in route, I'm gonna give you more information. Yeah, they're saying they have smoke showing from the Bravo side of whatever building, all occupants are currently evacuating the building at this time. Right there, I'm giving you that. And as if I get more updates, those are things I'm doing. I like to be methodical with my dispatching, just like I do with like if I'm doing stuff in the fire service side. I like to be methodical in what I have to say and make sure I'm not overwhelming people on the trucks with a whole crap load of information because you guys have got a lot to go to do in that truck. And if I'm constantly talking or getting excited, it it's gonna, it's gonna carry a lot. Like, so that's the biggest thing I could take away too, is that as a dispatcher, when you're when you're dispatching that structure fire, that's the biggest thing I always told when I was training other people is take that deep breath first, that cleansing breath. Because as soon as you hit that that button for a structure fire, all hell is gonna break loose, right? And if you sound nervous on the radio and your voice is shaking, respond to 111 homestead circle first. You know, they're gonna hear it and think, oh fuck, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Oh man, he's gonna screw this up. Take that cleansing breath, get the nerves away, and then say, respond to 111 homestead circle for a structure fire. That's all you need to say, right? And then as they're en route, now you're you've got that out of the way. That's the hardest, that's the band-aid. Once you've got that band-aid off, then you know, like, okay, they're ready for the next update. And now I feel more confident and I'm ready to give them those ongoing updates. So, but for what uh people on the truck side or the in the field need to know about dispatchers is we're human too. And so obviously we're just a voice in the box, but you need to be patient. So we're dealing with, especially if it's a big call, like again, you got multiple calls, like we're saying you we have multiple callers for this structure fire. What do you think when we're saying we have multiple callers? We have multiple callers, we're picking up every freaking flip, right? We're overwhelmed. So if you're constantly asking a bunch of questions and have a bunch of other things you're asking us to do, and it's just literally stupid things, yeah, you're gonna get a snap back. You'd be like, Yeah, you're gonna have to hold or hold all traffic while we figure this out. But be patient with your dispatchers, especially on those big calls. It is an overwhelming thing, and they're doing the best that they can with limited personnel. We talk about understaffing. A lot of dispatch centers are understaffed, right? There's usually two in that chair. That's a lot to do when you have multiple calls coming in, multiple EMS calls coming in on top of that structure fire. Or now there's a motor vehicle accident, or now we got to call mutual aid. Now we need to do that. Like, that's a lot. So, especially for chiefs and for guys on the officers on the truck, just be patient and understand what they're they're doing their best that they can with what they have.
SPEAKER_02No, that's great, great, uh, great question from again. And nice job again. Hitting on that dispatcher uh background, too, because that's a that's not something we have very. I mean, I'm sure we've had other guests who have dispatcher experience, but I didn't know it. Uh, and I can't think of anybody offhand that that I can think of. So great, great questions. Rob Fisher coming at you. Oh boy, Lou on 72, number five himself. His solo, by the way, drops. What is today date today? The 28th?
SPEAKER_0428th, sir.
SPEAKER_02How many days are in this month? Anybody know? Anyway, it's it's dropping in a few days on May 1st. May 1st, that solo is dropping. 10 pounds of pressure. 10 pounds of pressure. So, anyway, hype that get ready for it.
SPEAKER_04Sam says the third.
SPEAKER_02Okay. No, the first, but three days left.
SPEAKER_04Oh, three days left. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you're good. Rob F and Fisher says, We're seeing more firefighters with a voice through podcasts and social media. Another podcasting question.
SPEAKER_04I love you, Rob. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02Is that late night radio DJ voice?
SPEAKER_04That's Michael's thing to stick as the cannery for it.
SPEAKER_02That's beautiful. I'm so jealous, right? Do you think the fire service is at risk of confusing popularity, the influencer, with true leadership? And if so, how does an influencer stay grounded in the job so they're still accountable to the fire ground and not just to their audience? Man, yeah. Dig into that much, buddy.
SPEAKER_04Wow. My eyes are still rolling in the back of my head there on that one. Um Rob has that effect on people. He does. Um, it's a great question. And it's something I think podcasters, I don't know if you do, Corley, but I know when I talk to Preston and some and and and John Velez and Wayne Jones and all the other guys I've met through this. I think we all struggle with that. That we don't want to be influenced. One, I think we always hate the term of influencers, you know, because it's almost embarrassing. Like, I don't want to influence anybody. So that's the thing. It's like I'm I'm not trying to say I'm I'm the subject matter expert on everything, and that I also am not influencing anybody. I don't want to influence you to do what you don't want to do, or you know, I'm just telling you about my life and I'm bringing guests that have the experience and knowledge to the forefront. The people who are we're hungry for it. So I'm giving it to you. You're giving it to us. So uh that that side of it is just to remain grounded is to understand that we have a responsibility now, as being an influencer, um, that we have a responsibility to be true to our audience, to understand that we are not we are not subject matter experts. I mean, again, you you were a chief officer. You you are a subject matter expert in that field. I wasn't. So I'm not gonna get on a pedestal and talk about that. That's not what I did, right? I can talk about dispatching because I did that for like 20 years.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_04So yeah, could I be a subject matter expert in that? Absolutely. But we have to know our limitations, we have to know our lanes. And I'm not going to say I can I'm I'm the master of everything and I can teach you anything and everything. I'm gonna stay grounded and I'm just gonna remember that I the reason why I started this was to talk to a lot of people to have fun and to bring something special to everyone. Right. Because it's a lot of fun to be able to meet so many amazing people and to hear their stories. And that's for me, keeps me grounded is that I love to hear people's stories. I sit back and I listen. And if I'm listening and enjoying the story, I'm imagining that uh maybe there's 20 other people there doing the same thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So I hope that answers the question a little bit because I mean that was a damn good question.
SPEAKER_02Oh, it's a damn good question. Great, a great question because that with especially because I mean, this experiment called social media has basically been around about 20 years. If you if you count like YouTube dropper MySpace back in the way back, right? But it's a it's an experiment. We don't even know the the ramifications that it has on society. We're just we're just starting to feel them. Yeah, and so it's a young experiment. And on the fire service, you know, we're a microcosm of it. So go ahead, go ahead. Sorry.
SPEAKER_04No, no, you're right. I was just saying that you're right. Like it's it's it's like you said, an experiment, like, and you can get you can get lost in it. That's why I love Rob's question of how do you stay grounded? Because you can get lost in it. Oh, without a doubt, right? You start developing uh a following, a fan base, and then you start thinking, like, okay, I can say whatever I want, and everyone's gonna follow suit to that, and everyone's not good, no one's gonna question it, and then you you go off on some kind of tangent, everyone's gonna be like, no, I don't think so. You're you're a schmuck, and I don't want to listen to you anymore. And you have to not have that ego, and doing this, yeah, dude. Like, honestly, drop in the ego and just remember that you're just a regular person as everyone else. And I think that's why you do so well, Coral. That's why I love you, man, because you you are just a grounded person. I think that's why you continue to do so well to this day is that you remain focused on the mission, that you stay grounded, and that that helps you to deliver that message to all of us.
SPEAKER_02That's all no, I appreciate the compliment. I'm uh again, I I want to downplay it and make a joke about you saying that, and you know, that's my self self-defense kicking in. But one of the things, and this is key, like one of the reasons I started going to conferences, and one of the reasons I have stacks and stacks and stacks of notes is because I I didn't work at Job Town. I came from Four Station Suburban Fire Department, and we did not burn like the city down. We went to our our you know, our on our we went to our fires, and I'm proud of our tactics, but I went to conferences to learn because I didn't learn on the job. I didn't learn by doing. And that was the only way to learn what other people were doing. And so I, you know, there's this this I was talking to Chris Dragon, uh the Chris Scott, the dragon. I was talking to him today about this, and I think he's gonna write an article about this very thing of staying in your lane and don't teach what you don't know. But man, if that was if that there's so much unpacked there, and I I look forward to his article on it because it's gonna be great when he talks about it. Because this is the thing, I'm not a subject matter expert. I I get to talk to subject matter experts every week, and it's phenomenal. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_04That's why I feel like I feel like when we're doing the podcasting, it's like I'm going to a conference every day. Yes, right? I'm talking to people that are educating me, and that really helps me to if I'm curious about something, I'm going to talk to somebody. I'm going to ask the whys. And so if I invite you to come on, it's because I want to know more about you or know more about your tactics operations or anything else that can help us be better in our job. Better in our job. And exactly, man. And I absolutely love that because I'm just like you were taking notes. I do it every time I'm listening because I'm learning. And I'll leave that episode going, oh my God, I just learned so much. That was great. An hour of education for free. And I think that's what's great about the podcasting world is that it's a free education if you know where to find it. And you have to still vet your podcast, your guests, and things like that. It's it's just not open, like everyone's not going to be the end all be all of knowledge. There might be people that might be really fake. There might be people who don't know their shit. And you have to be uh educated or aware that hey, what they're saying is not really right. And and look it up yourself. Just because Corley Moore said it's true, it's not gonna be true. You still have to look it up and and do your homework.
SPEAKER_02So sorry, I got distracted. See, I saw Sam laughing at something, and then I had to look at YouTube, and there's all sorts of stuff. It's just scrolling by too much. I cannot block it over here, so I can't forget.
SPEAKER_04I know I thought my screen I've been trying not to look at it, but it's not because that's what happens.
SPEAKER_02It's not like there's enough stuff going on here between everything going on. Uh, the one thing I will say to Rob's question, which is again a beautiful question, that probably needs to be a solo. Uh, and we could just talk on it for like two or three hours. But the uh one thing I will say is never believe your own press in this in this social media influencer bullshit, it's not real world. Uh, don't believe your own press.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And if you start buying into that, uh Sam may remember the guy that was on the Bud Light commercial. I think it was Bud Light commercials. It might have been something else, it might have been Nike. I don't remember. But it was the athlete that was the prima donna. He would just always blame his teammates for everything. And Michon, Michon. Thank you, Sam. But uh Michon would always he would he would believe his own press. And if you do that, you become a Michon.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, absolutely. 100%. That's like when I go to work, like I I try, I make sure that I'm not talking about this all the time at work. My focus is work. So I'm at the station, I'm talking about stuff at the station. Unless somebody asks me, hey, how is it with Corley Moore? How was that show or how is FDIC? Yeah, we'll have a great conversation, but I don't always just drop everything about podcasts. I really do try to make sure that my social media world or whatever, whatever I'm doing is not taking over my life at work. And I try to really do keep that separate so people aren't overwhelmed or feel like, oh, here we go. Mike's talking about how special he is again on his podcast world. So I do try to keep things on an even kneel, even keel.
SPEAKER_02Right on, right on, man. Oh, security questions, man. Uh, first things first, Preston coming at you. Helton, Helton, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_04No, Helton, I love Helton.
SPEAKER_02Ton and ton. That was close. Uh, first things first, roll with me, Helton. How do you handle the voices of the haters and any criticisms that might come your way on social media? What strategies do you use to stay focused and not let it impact your mission?
SPEAKER_04Wow. Uh, and we kind of talked about that FDIC a little bit with uh with the dragon. And it's a great question. It gets brought up a lot. Um, and Candace does a great job with also answering those questions. And for me, I've learned it's I'm still learning, but if if it's again, you feel it's right, if you feel it's for the purpose that you set up your whole mission for, then no matter what the haters have to say, they're just they're just dust in the wind, right? They just literally are just gonna keep blowing. And you have to keep pushing on. Like I always talk about taking that hard road or taking the easy road. The easy road is doing what the haters are saying. The easy road is just literally just walk that way, it's straight, it's easy. They told you not to do it, so I'm gonna go that way because that's what they told me to do. You take the hard road, all the obstacles and the twists and turns, and you got the haters along the way barking in your ear, and they're trying to get you to go to that path again. You just you hold straight because if that's your mission and it's righteous, then you're good to go, no matter what the haters have to say, because they're gonna bark the loudest because they they're jealous or they have they have animosity. So it for me, it's dealing with the haters now is literally just I don't even bother. Like when I see shitty comments, I just I scroll on through. I don't I don't have the time to address all the hateful comments if I get any. Um, it is what it is. Uh sometimes I do chuckle at some of the comments and I just let it brush off my shoulders. At first, yeah, man. I used to, especially when I do my training videos, like I'll, you know, like a because I love training, so I'll show some stuff and then you know, you get people with some dumbass comments or questions. And I used to feed into it and I just stopped because you know what? There's gonna be 20 other people that are gonna chime right in and go, hey dude, are you even a firefighter? Why are you asking that question? And they just start going off, right? So they they battled it for me. And I just I just love to I like I said before, I watch. I'm always watching. I'm a very observant person. I don't get into it because life's too short to friggin' worry about it. So I built this whole platform and for this mission, this message is to help others and to spread awareness of bad leadership, but also good leadership, um, but also to be kind to one another. And if I can continue to spread that, I'm not gonna worry about the haters.
SPEAKER_02Right on. Right on, dude. Great, great questions, great answer. Um I'm gonna hit there. There's still like a dozen questions left. I'm gonna get a few more in. I'm gonna get a few more in just because we can, as long as you're willing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I'm um let's go. Oh, you know what? I got a quote because I be with that with the whole haters thing. Um, I love Mark uh Marcus Aurelis. I I read him a lot. So meditations, let's do it. Let's do it. So the opinion of 10,000 men is of no value if none of them knows anything about the subject. So that is what I think is like if people are gonna hate those 10,000 people, if they don't know anything, what does it matter?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's 2,000 years ago, way before Facebook and Instagram and TikTok. Boom, right? Marcus Areas is the dude. He was he was he was scrolling past the comments long before. Yes, sir. Uh, and remember, he's just a man, so you're just a man. Uh I'll hit Lou up again. Lou on ladder 72. I love his question. So it's it's uh when a firefighter gains a following, whether through training, social media, or podcasts, they start shaping culture whether they intend to or not. Which I I love the phrasing of that because that I never I've never thought about that before. But like I haven't actually like thought that through and said, okay, okay. What responsibility comes with that influence? And how do you ensure you're building something that outlasts your voice instead of just amplifying it? Man, those are good questions. That's some deep stuff here coming from number five.
SPEAKER_04Number five. That was oh, dude, that's a good one. Well, I think if you're doing training, if you're building a following, or if you will, with with training, you got to be pretty freaking good at what you're doing. You know, if you're showing stuff that just got a bunch of holes in it, your technique is off. They're gonna call you out. I see it all the time. Yeah, we all see it. We see some training videos, and there's a lot of them that pop up and training cadres. I think they know it all. And they might have gone to one training and then, okay, I'm gonna develop a training cadre. Um, but you have to spend, you do, I do believe you have to earn it. I do believe you got to develop those skills. You have to continuously learn and keep going to trainings and conferences and do your job on your regular department to gain those skills and knowledge. And then eventually you can build that good culture, that good fan base, if you will, of that, you know what, his shit is solid. Like, I love what he's doing. That's again, uh, because I love Robin Maryers and I love Basil and I love Sean. Like they've dedicated so much of their lives to to per to not perfecting it, but to honestly to make it for us, the quest for perfection, right? Yeah, and so you could tell that they spent a lot of time dedicating their body and their mind to making to making these trainings and developing that culture. They developed a culture. Brian Brush developed a culture, yeah. He developed a firefighter survey, right? That is a culture. We have the culture of those surveys, we have the culture of search. Justin McWilliams. Look at the culture that he's developed. You know, that that didn't just one day goes I'm gonna talk about search, and you know, he only did it once. Like he's he has he studies and studies and studies, he's incredibly passionate, he almost like to a point of being angry, you know, that when he's spreading that message, and so yeah, he developed that culture, but it's a it's a good culture to be part of. He's he's making people aware and he's spreading that positive message, and that culture is becoming that his legacy, if you will, because neveryone's gonna remember about search culture because of Justin McWilliams. Yeah, people are gonna know about the Firefight Rescue Survey because of Brian Brush. So he developed that culture, but it was from learning, from education. Like Brian did that because he was doing his master's, yeah, and he needed that project and I developed in something bigger.
SPEAKER_02One really cool thing about both the people you're using as your examples. I think both of them, if you I mean, if you could peek inside their brains and they'll say it absolutely, both of them don't care whether their name is associated with it. In fact, I don't I don't think Mick Williams would have his at all if it was possible to not go in and comment.
SPEAKER_00That's why it's called the search culture page and not just McWilliams.
SPEAKER_02Right. And but there, if you if you ever mess with pages versus personal profiles, there's this whole mess up that, but not the point. Uh, neither one of them want it to be about them, they want it to be about their mission, and I think that's why they are shaping the culture the way they are, is because it's a person.
SPEAKER_04Here's a perfect example. When I was telling uh some guys at my station, like, oh man, I had I had Brian Brush on my show. Holy shit, I was so pumped. Yeah, and guys are like, crush, who's that? And I was like, at first I was kind of like, What what? But then I said, you know, I I kind of took a step back because how about this? I said, Do you know firefighter rescue survey? Yeah, I would go, that's the dude. Oh yeah, I love I love firefighter rescue survey. They they knew from firefight that again, he didn't put his face to it. Right, he talks about it, but no one on some of those some of the guys don't know that he's the one that really helped develop that, right? So he developed a good culture, a positive culture by dedicating so much time and energy. And just like there's so many other people who've done that with truck work or whatever, and again, it doesn't have to be fire service related, whether it's it's mental health, physical health. You can't like if you're if you're 300 pounds and you start, you know, you know what, I like to work out. I did it, I did it last week. I'm gonna start working out, and now um, you know, I'm gonna tell people how to do the gym. And you then you stop after that week. Who am I to give that that you know to tell people how to work out after I only did it one week and that was it?
SPEAKER_02No, that consistency has to be there, or you will have authenticity. Yeah, and you will you won't, yeah. You will you'll have you will not hopefully not have any sort of traction. And on the point of crush, like it's not just firefighter rescue survey, the number of threads that go back to that that dude, uh, that no one has any idea how many how many ideas and classes and brainstorms he was the germ of like the scrap wouldn't exist without without Brian Crush doing a thing called the leadership uh Edmund Leadership Symposium in like 2015. And and the rep the ripples from that are just anyway, uh rabbit holes. That's the scrap is no idea. I apologize.
SPEAKER_04I have a little bit. So I had to blow my honker.
SPEAKER_02No, you're good.
SPEAKER_04I'm gonna push it out.
SPEAKER_02Rob, great question. And the key, honestly, is for me is just bring on badass guests who are subject matter experts and let them be the voice while I stand there and nod. Yep. Yes. And say and say, I love it. I love it. I love it. All right, one more. This one's coming. Uh let's see. Let's see. Let's see. Uh Third Alarm Cowboys, 20. 22. There it is. Yeah. Tac team coming at you. Question. How big a difference has it made traveling and meeting guys across the country for your love of the job? We often are not profit in our hometown. How often do you deal with this?
SPEAKER_04Oh, that's a great question. Um, I and I say that a lot. Like, I'm, you know, you can't be a prophet in your own town. And it's true. And at first it used to get me angry. You know, like I, you know, they'd bring somebody in, like, well, how come I can't do that? How come you don't want me to teach that? Or how come I can't be a part of this, this, this convention or whatever that's going on, like literally 15 miles, 20 miles down the road. But it'd be the same thing if I go somewhere else. Like I'm going to Mississippi for the coastal Magnolia Fools, by the way, May 13th. Um, but so they brought me in for that, right? So maybe there's somebody in their area going, why is Mike Goldstein from New Hampshire coming to Mississippi to teach us about this when I'm right here? So it's it goes the same way. And it could be frustrating at first, but then I gotta realize, you know, like that's not what I set out to do. I didn't set out to be um to go to all these conventions or all these conferences. I I literally was set up, I set myself up to just literally talk to you, to talk to the people, right? And that's what I love to do. It's developed into this, and I am so blessed and so thankful that I've been invited to so many, so many cool events. And um it's it's a it's a great feeling, and I feel it's so uh humbled by it. So when I when I go to these conferences and people know who I am, um, again, you have to remember remember to be grounded and stay true to who you are because we're we're smart, like we know when people are fake, we know when people aren't, right? And if you start getting that big head about you and you blow right past him, like screw that guy. I thought he was gonna be cool in person. It goes to that whole, you know, never meet your heroes kind of thing. If you brush past the people that are looking forward to seeing you, then they're not gonna listen anymore. And they go, they're gonna that rumor is gonna continue to spill and go like, oh, my goal's gonna screw that guy. He apparently forgot where he came from. So going to these conferences, being invited is a blessing, it is a it is a responsibility, it is an honor. And I I'm proud to do it, and I'm very fortunate that I can continue to do it. And again, we talked about wives. Like, if my wife wouldn't let me do this, like I don't know where I'd be. Like, I couldn't, I couldn't do this, right? So I'm very blessed that I have a wife who's so supportive. She knows how much this means to me and how much fun I have doing this, and that I get to meet so many cool people. And at FDIC, I it was great. I mean, I was taken back by so many nice people and so many positive comments and and just people just coming up and hugging me. Hey, you're that stickers guy, or hey, you're the can report guy. That was super cool. And you see people yelling nozzle top. Like, did I think that was ever gonna happen? Hell no. Um, but man, I'm here, I'm doing it, and like I tell a lot of people, I'm gonna keep riding that train until the wheels fall off because it's a hell of a lot of fun.
SPEAKER_02No doubt about it. And if firefighters want to hear what you have to say, that is one of the greatest honors. Like you if you if you can ever lose gratitude for that, and there is a truth to the whole 50 miles in a suitcase, can't be a prophet in your homeland, you know. And I I got I was lucky, you know, everybody knows. Well, I won't even name names, but I was talking to a very influential speaker, and I and I told him, I said, this was this was way before the podcast, way before anything. This was I would I just brought him in to speak at my department, and I love this dude. And I was like, oh man, I I had him alone, and I was like, hey, dude, how awesome is it at your department with everything you teach about culture and leadership and how great it must be there. And he just laughed at me. He's just laughing. And he said, Corley, it's like they pay somebody to come in from out of state to teach leadership and culture at my department. He goes, They they don't they don't listen to me there. And and not that they don't listen to him because you know, his relationships and things and his impact and his influence, uh, but he was making the point of it's everywhere, and then and and I've had this discussion before. There they know all the skeletons, you know. You they've ridden the back seat with you and and seen you at your worst and and seen you at your most complacent and seen, you know, all of it, all of it.
SPEAKER_04That's that's it right there. And I'm glad you hit on that uh because that's it right there. If you're a shit bag at your department or in your community, they're gonna know that, right? So that's one of the things you have to be careful of, and that's could be why you're not being invited to certain things in your area, because they know that you're a shitbag, you know, or they know that you sell people out, or you know that they know that your shit's not good, that you're not trained up, that you don't have that education, that you know, whatever the reason might be. And if you're not a and we talked about it earlier, reflection is key. Look in the mirror, look deep inside yourself. Are you doing what's right? Are you actually good at your craft? Are you good at spreading a positive message? Or do you just do it when you're in front of the camera and then you go back to station, you're you're pissy all the time, or you don't train, but you show yourself on videos at the gym training because that's a great world, right there, right? We can show ourselves in the gym, right? Right, and you can be in the garage trading all the time in your gear, but then you never do it at your station, or you never throw ladders or you never stretch hoses, but and then you you you know you talk about it. People will see that. So you have to make sure that you are being real and that you know, if you don't get invited to the party in your own neck of the woods, it's not the end of the world because there's somebody else that maybe is just more knowledgeable than you, and you have to accept it. That is being real.
SPEAKER_02I want to bring this up because it's uh happens to be sitting on my desk here. Uh, Laws of Human Nature, one of my all-time, all-time favorite books, Robert Green, one of my all-time favorite books. And I still haven't typed up, I've it's been like a five-year project of typing the notes out of this book, and I'm like 60% of the way through it. Haven't worked on it in a while. Not the point. Uh, he wrote the laws of 48 Laws of Power. Okay, now I love Laws of Human Nature. I think it's a phenomenal book on understanding human motivation and understanding human psychology. I was so pumped to read 48 Laws of Power when I started reading it. I hated the book. I I just I it it is so Machiavellian. It is so about like one of the first rules is never share your intentions and keep your secrets, you know, and all this stuff. And I hated the book, but like the second rule of law, I think, of the 48 Laws of Power is never outshine the master. So if you are in your department and you start uh having more impact than than the people above you, it there is a the professional jealousy that will occur and there is a backlash. And and it's just I don't know. I wish humans weren't that way because I've never, I don't think you've ever intended to to have yeah, there's that's a that's a whole different rabbit hole, maybe a maybe a solo there to talk about.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, brother. I appreciate that. I think so.
SPEAKER_02The tag team, and uh no, great across across the board, phenomenal questions tonight. Like you guys absolutely crushed it. And as always, when there's this many questions left on the board, then that means Michael, Mike, sorry, Mike. I didn't say Mikey, but Mikey.
SPEAKER_04Thank you for that one.
SPEAKER_02Mike, you have to come back. So that's yes, it's a well, yeah, absolutely. So, with that being said, unbelievably good questions. I'm gonna rotate to book or books that you think firefighters should be reading. It's one of my favorite questions that I ask week in, week out.
SPEAKER_04Well, um, we kind of like so we talked about earlier. So I love reading Marcus Aurelius. Like when I'm on my when I'm on the plane and I need to get deep and I need to clear my mind, I I read um meditations, man.
SPEAKER_02I love you have a specific uh translation you like because I've different versions that that some of them hit better and some of them yeah, describable translations, you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, Gregory Hayes, um, he kind of does a back and forth, if you will. Like he just he will go in and describe some things, and then it's he he goes and writes his own little blurb and then he goes back to Marcus. So but he numbers them out, so like you'll know it's a Marcus quote. So and then he'll go off and do some kind of deep explanation. Um, but yeah, I I love absolutely love Marcus Aurelius Meditations. Um, I never used to really care much about when I was younger, but now I find myself diving into it and you know, it's phenomenal and it can be pop around too.
SPEAKER_02The best part for me, because it's one of my top 10 books, but is is the fact that he wrote it all never intending to share it. Like it was like you're getting a peek inside one of the most powerful man at the time, you know, the emperor of Rome. Yeah, uh, and and you're getting a peek inside his innermost thoughts, and it's it's really cool how applicable they are today.
SPEAKER_04So I got it. It's amazing. You read some of these things like holy shit, how does he know that? Right, right, but he didn't even yeah, okay, go ahead. And then um, I've talked about it before. This is a fantastic book, the happiest man on earth. Um, with my Jewish heritage, uh, I happen upon this book. Uh, it's the beautiful life of uh Auschwitz survivor, Eddie Jacko. Um, he goes into great explanation about his life. Uh during the Holocaust, it honestly made me cry towards the end. It's a book about forgiveness. Um, like he goes deep into like, I mean, he was like the shit that he went through, right? Like, but he talks about the end, like he he found forgiveness, and through the the traumatic events of losing his family and the the physical toll this whole thing took on him. This man, you know, through it all found peace and forgiveness. And um it was just absolutely heartwarming to hear this book, and there's so many good quotes in this. And uh, but his whole thing was again, just treat people with respect, be kind, and you know, you know, you never know what somebody else is going through. And so he just really really spreads that message of peace. Uh, he was like he was on a TED talk before he passed away. Um, he passed away like the age of 90 something. Okay. So uh I absolutely love this book, The Happiest Man on Earth. Um, so it's a quick read, it's really very easy to read, but um, it's got a lot of good stuff in here.
SPEAKER_02Beautiful, beautiful.
SPEAKER_04And honestly, the other for fire related is the book of search. I I I'm just I'm a huge fan of that. I just absolutely love it. I'm in the book of search, my picture's in there.
SPEAKER_02And for those who don't know, was it FDIC or was it firemanship?
SPEAKER_04It was last FDIC.
SPEAKER_02Last FDIC, Michael came up to me at the district tap and said, Hey, can I sign your book of search? And honestly, I was offended. So I was like, I know all the authors, and the authors are supposed to sign this book, and you're not the author. And he said, But I'm in the book, and I was like, What are you talking about? And he flipped to it, and Rob Ramirez's article. So uh there's a picture, and it says it plain as day, right there on the bottom of the picture. Goldstein. Yep, and he signed the book right there. I was like, That that's actually pretty damn cool that you can because you're I had a couple of cocktails in me too.
SPEAKER_04So I had some I had liquid courage in me, so that helped a lot. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03It's so funny.
SPEAKER_04I was like, why would you're like you're like, show me, show me if you're in this book, yeah, because you were like serious. Like, if you're in the book, then you can sign it. I'm like, boom, there you go. I'm right there. Goldstein with Robert Mears.
SPEAKER_00Like, that's you. That's pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_04And everyone was watching too. Your wife was watching, like, everyone like stuff, everyone stood still because they wanted to see what was gonna happen next.
SPEAKER_02Well, because I wasn't gonna let you sign the book. I mean, I'm trying to get like Mike Champo to sign my copy and stuff like that, you know. So, all right. Uh, awesome, awesome selection of books, which takes us to the five questions for firefighters.
SPEAKER_04Right, hold on, I gotta get ready for this. Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02Oh, heck yeah. We're gonna get Sam to create you a nice uh ESPN wide world of I don't know if you can oh you can't hear me right now. We're gonna get like a wide world of sports style like ESPN mantra for to go in. The dun dun dun dun type deal. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_04There we go.
SPEAKER_02I don't I pivotes out.
SPEAKER_04Now we're ready.
SPEAKER_02The uh I was just telling Sam he's gonna have to make you a ESPN like wide world of sports, uh sports, uh like the trumpets type. Turn turn turn turn.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, let's rock that.
SPEAKER_02Sam's gonna get one that comes up. It's gonna be, yeah, we'll see. You're gonna get a Sam special to go with it.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah. I love Sam.
SPEAKER_02Everybody loves Sam. Five questions for Firefighters version. I think we're on 5.0. No one actually knows. The questions have no correct answer, they are just your opinions. The points are arbitrary, assigned by me with the help of the amazing audience. So, Mike Goldstein, Stickers, are you ready for the five questions for firefighters?
SPEAKER_04Let's rock it.
SPEAKER_02You can do anything in the world except be a firefighter. What would you choose to be?
SPEAKER_04A teacher and history. Because I love history. So I love working with kids, and I think it'd be a blast to be able to be a teacher and and help mold those minds. And again, learning from history. Uh, I didn't like school, but now honestly, the fire service has helped me appreciate school. So I think I'd love to be a teacher and teach history because I absolutely love history.
SPEAKER_02Favorite uh topic in history to teach Civil War, civil, okay, okay. Yeah, all right. No, max easy easy max points. Like that's that's a soft, easy max teaching a great one, especially uh history, especially history, yes, sir. So I don't know if you've paid attention to the scrap or not, if you're just manipulating the system or not, but max points out the gate. History is awesome. Aaron, Aaron Burkholder had your back, max points, max points, max points come at you. Oh, yeah. Flew Kevin Flu is in here. He said, Preston loves that jacket.
SPEAKER_04Preston absolutely hates that jacket. Gold is not his color.
SPEAKER_02You gotta lean into it and just rock it.
SPEAKER_04You gotta own it.
SPEAKER_02That's all there is. Okay, number two. It's job town. It is time. You're in route responding. You gotta think of the scene from backdraft, slapping that tape into that cassette deck. What song are you playing in route?
SPEAKER_04So I know you just had Stephanie on, and she was very methodical with her answer, and she had a great reason behind it. So I'm not going with a with a dance off and a sing off, I'm going from Connecticut and bringing hardcore Connecticut music. Uh hate breed, live for this. And anyone who knows hate breed out of Connecticut, those dudes are badasses, and that song Live for This will get you fucking amped right out the gate. What's the genre? I don't know. So I'm at hardcore, it's hardcore music. Okay, okay. Um, so it's it's like, I mean, it's just you gotta listen to it. You'll understand what I'm talking about. That's what I listen to at the gym. Okay. So if you've ever seen like some of my stuff I post, like what if it looks angry and aggressive? It's because I'm listening, I'm literally listening to all my angry music at the gym. So I love hate breed. I I watch them at many, many concerts. Before I used to go to fire conferences, I'd go to a shitload of concerts, and I'd always hate breed. It was out they're out of Connecticut, New England based. They are an amazing band, they've been around for like 20 years. But live for this is just that. We live for this, we live for this this that moment. Okay, go to that fire, right?
SPEAKER_02You got max points. You've already got the max points, but now every time a song comes on and I don't know it, one of the first things I do when the scrap is over is I go dig it up on Spotify and check it out. So and when people say, Man, it'll get you so amped up. I've been so let down so many times. I'm always wearing wary to click that play button.
SPEAKER_04So because I want my guys hungry, I want them off the truck, like like ready to like tear the hinges off. Man, I want them, I want them hungry, and that that song is gonna get them ready to go.
SPEAKER_02Yes, Rob Fisher, he is saying hate as in opposite of love.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, not love breed, but hate breed. Hate breed, hate breed.
SPEAKER_02It's almost like hate fuck. Like you guys might be the play on words.
SPEAKER_04Just I just later just spit my drink out.
SPEAKER_02All right, number three cold weekend at the station. Checks are done, training's done, PT is done, the food is cooking in the crock pot. You're not being lazy, is what I'm trying to say. Everything's done. It's just one of them cold, lazy days at the station, and you're clicking through the TV on the remote, no one cares, and there's that movie. You've seen it umpteen million times before. It doesn't matter what point of the movie it's in, you're gonna finish the movie. What is that movie for you?
SPEAKER_04National Lampoons Vacation. The original, the original summer vacation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, rusty, whatever.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I can watch that all over what's the amusement park?
SPEAKER_02I can't pull it out of the way. Was it Wally?
SPEAKER_04Wally World.
SPEAKER_02I didn't see right now.
SPEAKER_04The moose I front should have told you. I love that. I could quote that all day long.
SPEAKER_02Okay, hey, you back it up. Uh, I don't think anyone's ever said vacation before.
SPEAKER_04I love that movie. That's such a couple of things.
SPEAKER_02Vacation is probably just it's my Christmas, it's not my Christmas go-to movie, but it's close. Uh max points, three for three. Number four. This one is on the clock. You get one minute to answer the question. If you go over that minute, you're not gonna get max points. If you talk about it afterwards, you're not gonna get max points. We're very strict about this on the scrap. Okay. One minute to put your four, there's four people on your Mount Rushmore of the fire service. Okay, all right.
SPEAKER_04Fought my father-in-law, uh, old man Clark. He was a fire instructor, Kevin Fluger, and my mom.
SPEAKER_02I I couldn't even write them all down. Clark, old man Clark, OM Clark, flew. I love it. Dagum, heck yeah.
SPEAKER_04Dadgum. Dagum. Dagum.
SPEAKER_02Dagum. And uh the final mom. Moms, okay. Moms. Boom. What was the titan 11 seconds? Holy smoke. Holy smoke, yo. I've been studying, I've been ready. You were in the blocks ready, and the the gun fired and you you hit the tape.
SPEAKER_04My notes and everything, man. Four for four.
SPEAKER_02Easy four for four backs points. That's how you that's how you do a Mount Rushmore. Number five. Heavy fire, searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES?
SPEAKER_04Nozzle all day long.
SPEAKER_02I wondered with the the nozzle toff.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. We'll be yelling nozzle top on the way in.
SPEAKER_02Which surprised me. You said something earlier. You're Jewish? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Weird. That's my that's my humor. Number five. Number five, max points. He wants the knob, which is not a surprise. Five for five. Max points for five for five. Not a surprise. Absolutely crushed it. And that officially puts in the yellow jacket. 352 scraps in the books. Mike Goldstein. Thank you, man. My man. Seriously, uh, being an unbelievably good guest.
SPEAKER_04I had fun.
SPEAKER_02Fielding, fielding unbelievably good questions. Someone wants to get a hold of you. What's the best way for them to do so?
SPEAKER_04Oh man, I'm all over the socials, obviously. Instagram, Facebook, even TikTok. Um, you can email me the canreport podcast 2024 at gmail.com. You can find me. You can email me there. Um, yeah, you can just hit me on the socials and I'll respond right back.
SPEAKER_02Beautiful. Housekeeping from me, go to patreon.com/slash the vigilantes. Discord's up and running. The discord's an amazing place to be. The discord has kept me in the gym the last few days when I did not want to go. Uh if you are looking for a place to connect with like-minded souls, if you're looking for accountability, if you're looking for resources, if you're looking for all the best parts of social media minus all the bullshit, get on the Patreon and then jump through the hoops because it does take a lot. Get on the Discord, it's unbelievably awesome. Uh, F Dick just went down. FDIC got me saying it now. FDIC just went down. Vigilante meetup there was unbelievable, the largest one yet.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um, it was it was if you were there, you know.
SPEAKER_04If you were we needed a drone to take the picture.
SPEAKER_02We needed a drone to take the picture, and stick around was there. Michael Ramirez absolutely crushed it. Uh coming up next week, one of my top two Stone Brothers in the Panhandle of Florida, 850 David James, also known as DJ Stone, coming on. And he's gonna be talking about a new project he's been working on. And it is very similar in structure, at least, maybe not content, but structure to the book of search. So that's that's a really, really cool thing that's happening. Coming up after that, week after that, one of my favorite uh early uh like he was numbered, I think it was episode 29. Uh 28 or 29. I don't did I write it down in the notes. I did uh Kyle Samsung. And this is a different Kyle Samsung than was on when he came on all that time ago, which is like I don't know, it's almost six years ago. That's insane to me. Insane to me over six years ago. Uh coming back, and I'm excited. He's got a new the the book and everything to talk about there. So that's that's it. Enough jabbering from me. Thank you once again, Michael Goldstein. Thank you for sharing your evening with us and being such a phenomenal guest.
SPEAKER_04It was a pleasure. Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02Audience, I say it every week and I mean it from the bottom of my heart. You make the scrap magical. It would not exist without you. Remember, mutts don't scrap. I hope the tone stays silent. Unless it is burning, this job will never be safe. So stay smart out there. Thanks for listening to the weekly scrap. Please subscribe and please share. We'll see you at the next episode.