Unless it is financially dire necessary, my recommendation for all new firefighters is don't get a fucking second job. Work your fire department job and then have your life.
SPEAKER_00Firehouse Vigilance presents the weekly scrap, a podcast dedicated to the never-ending fight against complacency.
SPEAKER_01Coleymore, Firehouse Vigilance. It is weekly scrap number 361. My guest tonight is Dana Larkin. He is currently a battalion chief for Kamano Island, Fire and Rescue. He works C shift as well as running the training division. Dana started with Kamano Fire in 2001. He has been involved with the training from early on and continues to do so to this day. He has multiple degrees from multiple universities. The paper trail is there. He loves training in Live Fire, but ladders along with initial command are his favorite training topics. Dana is heavily involved with the Fools, which is a topic I hope we get to dive into. He lives on Kamano Island with Michelle, his wife of 32 years. He has three sons: Maverick, Jax, and Chase. It is my absolute pleasure, my friend, to have you on the scrap for episode number 361, Dana Larkin. Welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's uh a little surreal to be on the scrap after watching it for so many years.
SPEAKER_01It's been a long time coming because I've talked to you about this and then dropped the ball and then talked to you about it, then dropped the ball, and then finally locked it in.
SPEAKER_03Well, it's funny because when you brought it up, when you called me whatever it was three months ago, four months ago to talk about a date, your text that I think it ended up with a phone call, but the text stream started with, Didn't I talk to you about being on the scrap? And I was like, Yeah, at FDIC last year we talked about it and you said you send me dates and you didn't send me dates. And you were like, Well, why didn't you remind me? And my thought was, because you have a very strict policy of you can't ask to be on the scrap. But what and you were like, I think your direct quote was, God damn it, Larkin. I already fucking talked to you. Just remind me.
SPEAKER_01I don't know if that that that that we are. Sounds that sounds accurate. That's I'll take that. Uh, but no, I dropped the ball. I did, I did. Uh, that's part of my scatter brain is if it's not in front of me, it's the whatever squirrel, and so the chaos hit, but you're here and I'm happy. On the intro, is there anything I missed or left out or anything you want to add to that?
SPEAKER_03No, it's I was amazed. I I saw your YouTube script and your taught, and I'm like, I swear it didn't sound that cool when I wrote it to you. Like it sounds the way you you like moved it around and read it. It said like I'm like, fuck, that's pretty impressive. Did I actually do that shit?
SPEAKER_01I like this guy. That's awesome, brother. No, I love it. Uh, audience, get ready for Dana and I. Uh, Dana's gonna be coming at you with a lot of information, so get your questions primed and ready. It's gonna it's gonna be time to have some fun. So let's do those beautiful sponsors so we can get to the scrap. Everything in the fire service gets tested. Training, instincts, equipment. That's why Snaptight designs and builds its fire hose to perform no matter the challenge. Durability, packability, and kink resistance. Every single line is tested before it leaves the factory, so you know you can count on it. Snaptight is American-made firefighter trusted. You can visit Snaptighthose.com to learn more or find a distributor near you. Firefighter safety and accountability starts with being able to quickly find and identify individual firefighters operating on the fire ground. Identifier safety combines the best in photoluminescent materials for durable firefighter identification solutions that can glow for up to 20 hours, no switches, no batteries, which means being able to rapidly identify firefighters by name, unit, or assignment, even under hot fire conditions. All specifically designed and tested for the rigors of the job. Use code VIGILINGS for anything you want to order and save 10% off your order. Code VIGIGLENCE, be seen on scene, identifiersafety.com. And of course, if you know me, you know I love Flame Decon. Uh, it's the best decon soap out there. I firmly believe that that black bar stays in my shower. Even though I'm off the job, I still love the stuff. And I absolutely think you should wash, shower within the hour. Shower within the hour, decon wash your walls. I say it each and every time. So there you go. The final thing I want to talk about, which is something I'm super excited about, which only the vigilantees know about, which is the Vigilante Codex project. And if you want to find out more, go become a vigilante. But man, I think this one's gonna shake the fire service. I really, really, really do. It's going, it is a powerful project. And if you want to be a part of it on the ground floor, go become a vigilante, get in there and start contributing to the value that it's gonna bring. It's gonna be amazing. All right, all that being said, that is the sponsors, and now we're focused on Mr. Dana Larkin, my man. I always send out an email to the guests and say, Hey, what do you want to talk about? Give me some ideas so I can ask semi-intelligent questions. That's the plan. And you sent back this one that just said expectations, and I was like, Is it expectations of me? Like, what did you mean by the sing the one word of expectations?
SPEAKER_03Well, I didn't want to give you my whole sheet, but uh I'm a I'm a big fan of expectations. I know a lot of other guests you've had on the show have talked about expectations. Uh, and I know like I got it from uh Mark Van Oppen, who's like uh I feel comp lucky to be able to call him a friend, met him at FDSC a few years ago, which is a very interesting story if we get that far. But he's got his, you know, 10 for me, 10 for you. Yes, and I know all the time people talk about expectations. And for me, when I go at the beginning of a year, I do an expectations talk with my captains, my actors, and the firefighters. And I was like, Well, why should why should the scrap be any different? I should give my expectation talk. So I have some expectations of what the audience can expect from me. It's not 10, I think I got like five or six, so but I don't have any expectations of the audience because I know they're gonna ask questions that can be short-lived. So, from me, I want to let the audience know what they can expect. Okay, because I I do I kind of do things differently sometimes.
SPEAKER_01So I love I just want to say I'm on board. I so far I love it. We'll see, we'll see as it works.
SPEAKER_03So, but everybody talks about it, so we got to do it right. So, uh, number one, I'll tell you what I think. Uh, I have a reputation for telling people what I think, and I won't hold back. So if you ask me something, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you what I think. Uh that part of that being is uh sometimes I won't always take your feelings into account. If you fucking ask me, I'm gonna give you the answer whether you want it or not. Uh, if I don't know the answer, uh I'll let you know I don't know the answer, and then I'll give you my best guess, but I'm not gonna make shit up. Uh I can only talk about my experience and my path, which got me here, which is different from everybody else. So it might not fit into everybody's mold. I joined the fire service really late, so I have some different influences. Um, here's the important one for my department. The opinions expressed here are solely mine and do not reflect my organization.
SPEAKER_01Uh and I love I love, I gotta, I gotta, I love the way you dropped into the professional DJ voice. That was that was nice. Okay, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03Uh, I have one more and then I'll talk about my DJ voice. Uh, and we've all you guys have probably already seen it. I do swear. Yeah, it is a thing.
SPEAKER_01That the the audience with the scrap is very astute. They caught on already.
SPEAKER_03I'm not gonna ask you if it's okay because I know it's okay as long as it's not excessive, but this will probably be the scarface of scrap episodes.
SPEAKER_01So hello to my little friend.
SPEAKER_03Uh, the DJ voice, yeah. So uh side story before we get going. Uh I graduated high school considerably amount of time ago, and in Washington State, there used to be this thing called the Washington pre-college test. So I was the last high school class that did not have to take the SATs. Okay. So I never took the SATs to go to college. We had to take this thing called the Washington Pre-College Test, and it was similar to the SATs, but not as smart. Uh, and at the end, it like basically gave you uh an expectation score of what your uh chances are in college, uh, and then a rating of what the test thought what what profession they thought you should go into. Okay, which is really funny because my my wife is a research scientist, she's got a PhD in biochemistry. She took it and her said she should go into like research science or science and whatever.
SPEAKER_01Pretty accurate in that regard. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Uh, mine my rep my employment recommendation from the state of Washington based on this high school test is that I should be a TV or radio personality. I can see it. I can see it. So basically, basically, like you talk a good game, but you're kind of stupid and ugly, so go be on radio.
SPEAKER_01Gotcha. I didn't say that. That that was your version.
SPEAKER_03That's that's my interpretation of the facts.
SPEAKER_01Well, the okay, uh, very cool. No, the expectations are awesome. I'm a huge fan of 10 for you, 10 for me from Ron Oppen. Man, absolutely uh life changer for me back in when I first saw him speak, like in I want to say 2016. I want to say, and I made my own based off his. That was awesome, man. I love it. I love it. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03I do it to my crew, I refresh them every year. I'm going in uh next Monday morning. We're hiring a new batch of part-timers, and I'm going in specifically to do an expectations talk with them. So nice. I'm a I'm a big fan of it. I did steal it from Mark, but I gave him credit.
SPEAKER_01Beautiful. And people are already piling on with questions, but we're gonna start with the fools because I want to hit the fools and make sure we talk about the fools. I even wore my my local chapter fool shirt in honor of the fools today. And so uh you got involved with the fools, you started your own chapter, you you have been heavily involved, but talk to me about the fools and let's just let's just lead it off there. I'll kick it to you and say talk about the fools in whatever direction you want to lead off with.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, uh the fools is life-changing, game changing. Uh, it's it's a big part of me and what I do and got me to where I'm at my career. Um, and I've had a couple different experiences with it. When I first started with the fire department after I'd been on for like four or five years, we had some guys who are fools members and they were like super crazy over the top, and it kind of rubbed me the wrong way. And so I pushed off to the side. And then about 2016, 2017, I started looking around and I was like, I need to, I need to like change the direction of where I'm going in the fire service and and try and be better. And one of the things I kept seeing online was the fools. So uh I knew of Rob Fisher back then. I didn't know who he was, I didn't have any interaction with him. And I went to uh uh firemanship in Portland, I believe is it in 2017? And it's the same story. Like I know Ben Flagle when he was on the scrap, I think he gave you the same story. I've heard it from Chris Bednarik uh and Dubowski, all these guys who you find this guy, like I remember uh after the conference one night, it's Fisher and Chad Berg sitting on a couch, and I walk up and I'm like, Hey, aren't you you know who you are? And they're like, Yeah, and I was like, Well, can you tell me about the fools? And I remember Fisher started laughing, and Berg was like, wouldn't you fucking like to know? And I'm like, Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's why I just asked you, and then they wouldn't tell me anything about it. And I'm like, You dicks, like, what the hell? Really? Okay, yeah, so I caught up with Rob like the next night or something. He's like, Look me up when we get back to Seattle, kind of went down that route, and then uh was trying to get involved. We had a local chapter in the Northwest that was kind of debunking at the time, uh, and driving to Puget Sound Fools events, even though they're in Seattle with traffic, was a huge ordeal. So uh got a group of guys together and talked about starting a chapter and and got the okay from Puget Sound Fool to kind of notch out the top end of their terror territory. And we started our own chapter in 2019, and so I was the president of that chapter, and uh that our chapter, Cascade Fools, is still up and going strong. Uh, from that, I did that for a couple years, and then I saw a post on Facebook that the international needed help, and so I reached out and ended up getting a phone call from Ben, the president, talked to him a little bit about it. He's like, Well, normally this is what we do. And then, unbeknownst to me, he called Fisher. Uh, and this was, you know, 2019, so it was a couple years after that interaction. And uh I knew Rob, but I didn't know him, I wouldn't say great, it was just acquaintances. Uh, and he man, he fucking stepped up and he told Ben that what he knew about me and that I was reliable and that you know they could trust me, and so they voted me on the international e-board as the treasurer, and I've been there since uh early 2022. So it's been great, it's stuck and well real quick.
SPEAKER_01There's only a couple people that have specific names on the scrap, but Rob Effen Fisher, Rob motherfucking Fisher. Well, it's E F F I N, I think is the actual spelling, Rob Effen Fisher. So yeah, and then uh that but that that's the only part of the that I had to chime in on. But no, that's and and man to go from outside, inside, starting one to part of the board, yeah. The journey.
SPEAKER_03It was it was it felt quick, but I mean it felt good, and I've still been doing it. I've been the treasurer now for four and a half years.
SPEAKER_01So if someone's thinking about starting one, like they're in your boat, they're like, Man, I've got one, but it's a pain in the ass to get to, or we don't have one in this area at all, and I think it'd be good, or man, I'm passionate and fired up in my department, but there's no one else, but there's these other people near me. What's the what's their what's your advice to them for kicking it off, getting it going, finding out information? Go.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, email Dave. Email Dave Dubowski, the secretary at uh uh secretary at fools international.com and just tell them that. And then you can go to the fools website, there's a find a chapter, you can see how far away a local chapter is to you. Uh, but Dave's the man, he'll talk to you, he'll find out where you're from, what geographic area you want to cover, he'll do all the mapping compared to what the next closest chapter is, and then he's the guy who actually approves all the new chapters based on geography and what your intent is, and then he gets you set up, and then you come to me and we do all the invoicing and all the applications, and then you're up and running. Right all uh, the one thing I would say about the fools is it's you know, for a lot of people who aren't involved or don't know about it, you know, it started in '95 with those guys in south southern Florida, many of who you've had on the scrap, um, Walt Lewis and Bart Simpson and all those guys. Um it was originally started because there was of the lack of training for departments, and and there's been a a little bit of a push on the e board recently that that's not so much the case anymore. You know, there's conferences everywhere all the time. Uh, and chap not uh departments are doing way more training now than they were in '95 and allowing people to do training and stuff. So we're trying to get the the second part of when most people think of the fools, they think of training, but we're trying to get that other part of the brotherhood part of it brought back in. The social aspect, yeah, the social, the camaraderie. Uh, it's kind of like the vigilantes, it's kind of being able to find a voice or find some like-minded individuals who you can just talk about stuff with and hang out with. And honestly, I think going to chapter meetings and doing the training is great, but for me, it's the social aspect, which as an officer in my department, sometimes that's hard to get with subordinates, as much as when you're out with the fools, it's just a group of guys, so rank doesn't matter. Right on. So we're kind of trying to push that the more social side of it, just because there's so many conferences. Um, there are some outliers out there who want to start foolish chapters to try and kick off their own training entities, which isn't necessarily ideal or what we want, but uh we'll get them, we'll get them back in the fold of what we want them to do.
SPEAKER_01Right on, and no, and like you said, like in '95, it wasn't like conferences didn't exist. And there was like E C and like you know, fire, fire, uh, firehouse.
SPEAKER_03There was nothing local. You had to figure out your own shit, and your departments weren't backing you up, right? And that's really what what started it. And that's that's where like I sat down with Walt Lewis, and that's the story is they were called fools for paying to go to their own training because if the department didn't provide it, then other people didn't think it was necessary, and they're like, Yeah, but we actually want to be good at our job. So it started born out of training, and then the brotherhood was secondary. And I think now with the way it's going and how much training there is out there and how much there is conference-wise, that it's still a great avenue for training, it's still a great, like it's the perfect way for people to get started in doing like what you do and teaching at conferences. Uh, Aaron Fields, everybody who doesn't know who Aaron Fields is, right? The very second or third nozzle forward talk he gave was he did one at the Northwest Washington Fools, and then he came to our department and did one for like half a day way back in the day before nozzle forward was anything. So uh he's not a fool, but he got started or put it together and basically used the fool's chapters to start getting it out and going.
SPEAKER_01Right on, man.
SPEAKER_03He made sure to make, I have to tell you, he said hi, by the way.
SPEAKER_01Excellent, excellent.
SPEAKER_03I mean for those of you who don't know, I have this real, you know, this guy I have to deal with. My direct supervisor for the last year is uh assistant chief Aaron Fields. So it was an amazing pickup by our department. So I get to talk to him and be around him every day. And the shit that comes out of that guy's mouth half the time, I'm like, how the what the fuck is all this? Like, where do you store that all this weird knowledge about all these insane topics across the board? And then and in real life, in work, just like in conferences. Uh, if he says he needs five minutes, turn off your phone and give him two hours.
SPEAKER_01And not just that, and also the hip hop lyrics, he's he's a machine.
SPEAKER_03So oh yeah, a machine singing. I forgot what song he was singing to me today, and then I picked up the next line and he just about lost his shit that I knew what the song was. Right. Now I can't remember what it was.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. No, one of the brilliant minds. I don't say this lightly, like one of the brilliant minds of the fire service, like like he's uh so articulate and ban. Okay, and and the fact that he went from Seattle and then moved there, and I didn't even know. I didn't like I it was very low-key, like it was very low-key.
SPEAKER_03And well, you know, he doesn't do the socials, right?
SPEAKER_01Ah, beautiful man. Okay, I've got questions coming at you already from the audience. So are you ready to start fielding some that are on topic? Oh, sure. Fire chief Eddie Robinson, recently retired Eddie Robinson. I'm assuming that is him. Uh, he wants to know why are fire chiefs reluctant to support the fools.
SPEAKER_03I think it's uh honestly, I think it's you know, I was joking with uh some of my friends the other day. So, you know, 20 years ago, 25 years ago, when I got started in the fire service, this group of us ran academies for our departments. So we were the officers in the departments and running them. And I remember talking to these guys, we're all volunteers, we're all part-timers. I remember talking to them, going, man, the chiefs just don't fucking get it. How these guys become chiefs, blah, blah, blah, blah. Fast forward 20 years later, that cadre of instructors, we are all chiefs, assistant chiefs, battalion chiefs, or captains. Like every single one of us is full-time at that level. And uh, I made the comment that you know, chiefs all know each other because they all started out together. So, to answer your question, I think there's a lot of chiefs now that still remember the, for lack of a better term, the zealot fools from the early days when it was like it was all about training and it was super in your face. And that if you're not a member and you're not training, you're a total piece of shit, and some of that, like because that's the vibe I got early on from the fools. And I think there's a lot of chiefs out there now who that's what they remember. And I think it's up to us to be like like my chief. Uh, my chief was originally um our um training trustee when we started our our chapter, so we got him involved early. But I think it's you got to make that switch, or you gotta educate the chiefs, invite them to a meeting and have it be have it involved the social aspect and the brotherhood, and not just it's not just all about training anymore. And I think a lot of those older chiefs, that's what their initial experience was, and they haven't been around to re-experience it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and once they get that first impression, then then it's miled away, and that's what it is, right?
SPEAKER_03And that's that's what it is. Just branding. Yeah, I love it. Uh like Step Brothers. I hated Step Brothers the first time I thought it. I saw this is the dumbest fucking movie in the face of the earth. Now I've seen it four or five times since, and it's actually pretty good.
SPEAKER_01And it grows, I it definitely grows, yes, no doubt about it.
SPEAKER_03I think that's where you're at. I I and and that's how I'll probably answer most of these questions as I go off topic, and then but hopefully I'll circle back around.
SPEAKER_01Circle back around.
SPEAKER_03I think a lot of I think a lot of current chiefs who have have 30, 35 years in the job only remember old school, original, like training, nothing else, and they don't get the social side of it.
SPEAKER_01Right on, right on. Jay Mosesar wants to know do you find that people outside the Fools look down on it at all, like it's just a bunch of whackers. Being uh, I think that's one being a new chapter. How do we push participation in our fools chapter? So I don't know if it's a two-part question or but go ahead.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think there's still some of that. I think you still get some of that. And again, it's the same thing, right? It's people who had that first taste of something or a bad experience, and it's like, yeah, I don't like that, and they don't go back to it. Uh, I think to push participation in new chapters, and we see this all the time, which and Dave will give you the statistics, about uh two-thirds of all new chapters in the course of the first five years end up failing. Um, and it's due to stagnant membership and not pushing out membership because I still think, and and we try and really talk to these guys in these chapters, presidents and whatnot, about the fact that it can't just be all about training and rah-rah, and you can't shit on everybody else who's not a member. It needs to be, you know, you need to talk about the brotherhood and then it's relationship building and it's guys you can lean on. Uh, like uh uh Richie Stack has been on the show, right?
SPEAKER_01Yes, and he was former dude.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he's the former president of the fools. Um, I ran into him at FDIC and just in, you know, uh the district tap. Not that anybody ever goes there. Never uh ran into him at the district tap and was talking to him. And I mentioned that my uh my oldest son, Maverick, who's 28, lives in Chicago. I fucking swear to God, I thought he was gonna punch me. And he was like, he got super close and super aggressive. He goes, How long ago did he move there? And I go, it's been like a year and a half. And he legitimately was mad at me for not telling him. And he's like, he goes, I don't understand how you could not tell me your kid lives in my fucking town. You make sure you give him my number. If anything ever goes wrong, if he runs out of gas, he better fucking call me so I can go help him out. And he was legitimately mad, and I was like, Oh, sorry, dude, okay. But I think that's really what the fools represents, and that's the the brotherhood part of it, and that's the part we need to do at all levels a better job of letting people know that it's not just like, yeah, I'm gonna throw a you know 40,000-foot ladder by myself because I'm a badass motherfucker, right?
SPEAKER_01No, no, and then there's nothing wrong with training, he's not saying there's anything wrong with training, it's just there's this whole other side that that is important, right?
SPEAKER_03And I know there's areas of the country that still don't, the departments aren't supportive, and those chapters need to be more training heavy. I think the the perfect example is the Mighty River Fools, which by the way is where convention 2026 is going to be held at the beginning of September. So you should all buy your tickets and attend. Um, right on. They do a great job. Dave does a great job with that chapter. He's been present there forever. They have training events, they have training weekends, and then they post tons of pictures of all their social events and their hangouts and their all the different fundraiser stuff they do, and it's a way to give back, you know. Who what show of hands because nobody's gonna raise their hand? Who didn't say, or who, which way do I want to word this? Who said in their hiring interview for their first job, oh, I love the community, I love the fire department. I can't wait to give back to the community and help the people who help me, right? Everybody says it. Everybody, how many of us now can legitimately say I do contribute to the community and I do community events and I do fundraisers to help out the community? It's not the hundred percent that said it in the interviews. So if you actually want to uphold what you said and be part of that, then join a fools chapter and give back to your community.
SPEAKER_01I love it, I love it. And Dave Dubowski, speaking of which, Muddy, Mr. Muddy Rivers himself is on here and he he's throwing you a soft toss. He said, What's it like to be the treasurer of the Fools International?
SPEAKER_03That's so amazing. Uh it's it's it's a lot of work. It's better now that we uh have joined the 21st century and we are now digital with the database, which is pretty cool. Um it has uh between the fools and going to conferences, uh completely resurrected my career. Oh wow. Uh I would not be at the level I'm at, I would not be the person I'm at uh if it wasn't for uh conventions and the fools. Uh so being able to be the treasurer and talk to all these chapters and talk to all these guys and see them at convention and see them at conferences and uh see how it's affecting them is just amazing. So, and uh shout out to everybody who's a fools member. I know who you are, I recognize your name. I am horrible with names. So I'm just saying, I see people all the time. I'm like, hey, you my wife actually uh it was a few years ago I've tried really hard at it as a few years ago. We ran into somebody and I was like calling him Joe the whole time, and we left, and she's like, Oh my fucking god, if you try and call somebody by their name anymore, you need to stop it and just say hey and you because you are wrong all the time. So uh I apologize to everybody whose name I get wrong, or if I don't say it, I do recognize people and I remember them, but getting back to the the question of it's being the treasurer is just it's amazing to to see the growth of the the the organization as a whole and where it's moving and how it's affecting other people like it affected me. Right on, right on, and I get to be friends with Dave.
SPEAKER_01Which speaking of Dave, I got one coming at you from him again, another one. And this one is so we can put a bow on the on the we'll put a nice routing bow on the fools, unless there's something else you want to say. But he says, Do you have any details on the upcoming fools convention? Which you touched on a little bit, but go ahead and hype it.
SPEAKER_03Oh, the upcoming fools convention is gonna be fantastic. No offense to all the previous conventions. This has got to be the best convention ever because it's Dave and it's Muddy River Fools, and they are one of the most active chapters. Uh, there's go-karting, there's social events. Uh, one with your conference pass, you get to go to a Cardinals game, which is pretty amazing for everybody who likes baseball. So that's gonna be fun. And uh, it was just a couple weeks ago, Dave threw out there for the first, I think it was 20 people who emailed him. Uh, you get a private tour of the Rawlings baseball factory and all their memorabilia, which is gonna be great. That is uh there's gonna be, I don't have the list in front of me. Maybe Dave can type it so Sam can read it or something. I don't have the list in front of me of who's uh presenting there. I know opening uh keynote speaker is Captain Michael Dugan, which is gonna be amazing. Um, and then there's some great classes and some great hot classes, and it's just gonna be epic. I think there's 125 Fools members signed up so far, 25 spouses roughly. Uh, this is an amazing conference to bring your spouse to because it's a very hit hit the dates one more time. So sorry, September. Let me let me pull up my phone.
SPEAKER_01Uh the treasurer, not the calendar keeper, obviously. This is the secretary.
SPEAKER_03This is Dave. This is the secretary's job. There you go. Sam says the 14th to the 14th to the 18th. Yes. There you go.
SPEAKER_01There you go. Sorry to put you on the spot, Dana.
SPEAKER_03No, it's fine. I got it right there. I just had to look it up. 14th to 18th. Uh, weather should be fantastic. It's gonna be great, it's gonna be a good time. So excellent. No, I'm gonna get more people to show up. I wanted to. But yeah, uh, take your spouses. There's lots of spouses, there's spouses' events. Uh, the spouses can go to all the social events, they can go to the games, they can do all the other stuff. Uh, during the hot sessions or the classroom sessions, there's a specific spouse uh track. Uh, in the past, you know, we when we were in uh Milwaukee, uh, they all got bus rides and all went to the Mall of America, they've been to museums, they do all that crazy stuff, which is super cool. So they don't have to sit and listen to boring fire shit all day, and then they hook back up and go out to the bars and do all the social stuff with us at night. So it's really amazing for spouses to attend to.
SPEAKER_01Sounds awesome, sounds amazing.
SPEAKER_03Dave can text me later and be like, God damn it, you didn't say this, this, and this. But sorry, Dave.
SPEAKER_01That's good. I have to have Dave back on before. Oh, well, I don't think I got it. I can't say that. Uh, Rob Fisher. Speaking of Rob Evan Fisher, he has a question for you, which is you've shared before that there was a time when you weren't really all in on the fire service, and you've alluded to it a little bit here. He says, What changed? What changed?
SPEAKER_03Uh, yeah, I was uh I'm a uh I'm a former recliner sniper addict in recovery. Um, yeah, I was all the bad things. Uh not super outwardly bad things, and my wife hates it when I tell people this because she's like, You shouldn't tell people that you were a piece of shit before. But uh yeah, I first started uh when I first got hired, I was 36, which I know in today's world uh is ancient for getting hired in the fire service. I had had 20 years in the private sector, done all that stuff. I took a massive pay cut to go to the fire service, and I was a single income with three kids. So it was super hard to make that work. Uh, and then I was really I had had an experience with unions before that was not ideal. And so being in the union, taking a massive pay cut, it was just like, all right, this is just a job. Uh, and so that's how I treated it and I got through it. And then uh fortunately I hooked up with some right people, uh, some good mentors, and I went to, I was told, hey, you should probably attend a conference. Uh, so I went to uh I was kind of looking into the that's when I was looking into the fools because I was like, I need to do like this isn't sustainable. You know, I'm like 10 years, eight years in. I can't, I can't be like this and do 20, 30 years in this job. So I was looking in the fools, and then I went into uh I went to firemanship and I think I think it was 2017, um, and went to that. And for everybody who's been to firemanship, and I know now it's in Illinois, it's amazing. Uh, I actually ran into Cody Trestrail this year at FDIC and just told him my story a little bit, and so that was pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00Right on.
SPEAKER_03But I went to I went to firemanship and Cody was up there talking, and then I think uh Fields talked, and then Kurt Isaacson came out, and I was like, damn, I did not know it was okay to like what you did.
SPEAKER_00Yes, right.
SPEAKER_03My whole life, the job was a job was a job, like you did a job to make money to go do other stuff, and if you didn't like your job, then tough shit, nobody liked their job. Uh, and I heard uh Isaacson talk, and I was just like, I was floored. I did not know it was cool to like your job or be into the job. And then I took Field's uh nozzle forward class, the two-day class, and got a full dose of Chief Aaron. Uh, and I still give him a hard time because I didn't, I kind of knew him. I didn't really know him that well, and I said something offhanded to him, and then he pulled me out in front of the 80 people taking the class and made me embarrass myself with what I had said to him, which was great, so it's fine. Um, but that was a that was a real eye-opener that it was okay to like being a firefighter and want to be good at it because I didn't have that experience. That wasn't what the culture of my fire department was. Uh, and then I I doubled down on that and went to FDIC the next year, and then man, I was off to the races after that. So, and I haven't that was you know, eight, nine, ten years ago, and I haven't slowed down yet. And it's still like I one of my other guys I work with, he was like, I remember when you first got hired and you were not at all like you are now, and you have sustained this for such a long period of time. Like, what changed? And I'm like, those two events having somebody believe in me and tell me to go to both those events and then find the money in the department to send me.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. I love the story. I love the story, and now uh who knows what you know, starting with though though that that chain reaction of events affecting you, and who who knows how many times the story's been repeated of people who attended something like the firemanship, and of course, firemanship was a huge, huge ground zero for a lot of people.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, in Portland, it was yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And then, well, I think it's across the country. I mean, so many people point at that experience. I was not a part of it at all, so I just hear the the mythological uh stories about it, but even the FDIC year in and year out, just making an impact, going there and having your eyes open by seeing the speakers. Yeah, and my point is is like they affected you, and then you became involved and affected your department. Not only that, but now you're affecting departments across the country with the fools. I mean, it's just yeah the ripples, the ripple effects of those one.
SPEAKER_03My department, my department is phenomenal right now. I love my department, I think it's great. It's not the department it was 20 years ago. Uh, we have a lot of different people as part of it, but that culture change and and the effect from going to those conferences and then talking to my chief. And my chief, he was the captain at the time who told me to go to that first one and he went with me, and now he's the chief, and so he's all in on it. So every year I'm like, it's it's June. We have to book hotels for FDIC. How many people are we gonna send? Like, we have to send two or three people every year and get these experiences. And just this year, uh, I am very fortunate that I get to go because of the fools, which is amazing. Uh for the to be there for the fools bash. If you go to FDIC and you don't go to the fools bash, shame on you.
SPEAKER_01Shame on you.
SPEAKER_03Um, so I get to go there for that. We have some meetings and some other stuff we do, so that's pretty amazing. Um, and then this year I went with two guys from my department who work with me in training, but they're they're one is on my shift and the other one's not. And he was super, I've known him for a long time because he's been a volunteer and he was super hesitant to go. And he was like, I don't know, blah, blah. And our um mutual friend in the department, she was telling me, he's like, I told him he's really nervous to go because he doesn't think he wants to hang out with you for a week. And I'm like, that's fine, he doesn't have to hang out with me. And she's like, but I I tried to tell him, and he goes, and then we went and I made him go do stuff because he's like he's super good at what he does, but he's very like family-oriented and very like shy and on his own. And we went and we came back, and she actually called me and she's like, You're never gonna believe this. He said that you were a completely different person and you were super fun to hang out with. And I think great, I'm glad somebody thinks that. Okay. Um, but I think part of that too is that it's the reputation you get from where you're at. I know Rob F and Fisher always says you can't be a prophet in your own community, right? Um, for me, I think that the way I sum that up is when you go to conferences and you go to events, you get to be the person you want to be, or the person you really are. In your own department, you are the person you have to be. So I think as a a captain, a battalion chief, someone in charge of training, I have to be a certain way at work. When I get to go out and go to conferences, I get to be who I am and who I want to be. And those are not necessarily the same people.
SPEAKER_01Following it away. I'm I'm I'm I'm running it through my filters and seeing if I agree and if I like it. Yeah, I'm checking it. I'm checking it.
SPEAKER_03That's the that's the private sector boss, right? Private sector boss, you're not friends with anybody. Yeah, no, that's very hammered in.
SPEAKER_01If you spend a lot of time in the private sector in middle management or upper management, like you do not interact with anybody outside of very cut and dry no, it's why buddy the boss is such a weird dynamic in the fire service, and it can be such a weird dynamic, you know, because it's so different than the yeah, no, I can see that.
SPEAKER_03And I think that's it's when we get some younger people in the department, they don't, you know, they don't have that outside experience, and so it's kind of can be rough on that. And I think people have been in the fire service the whole time do a better job of it.
SPEAKER_01So whiskey Mike coming at you, and uh to basically Dana, you've been to a lot of conferences. You've been uh Whiskey Mike, uh you've been to a lot of conferences, you've seen a lot of speakers. He wants to know basically, he's asking you three speakers you think people should go in here. Who are three people you suggest people go in here? You've already mentioned Kurt Isaacson, Aaron Fields.
SPEAKER_03Uh, but but I love you gotta see you gotta see Kurt because it's and it's funny because I I I talked to him, he was on the scrap, and then FDIC happened, I believe.
SPEAKER_01Sounds about I don't think that's how it happened. Don't challenge my brother. I'll lose it.
SPEAKER_03Uh and that's the other thing with being with the pools and being on the e board. Uh, I get to meet people and I'm not afraid to go talk to people. Um, so I've had some interactions with Kurt and I like him, and I'm fortunate to be able to call him a friend. But I talked to him at FDIC and I was like, dude, I gotta tell you your last scrap. And he's like, What do you think? And I go, I go, I think that you very definitely and very adeptly uh made the transition from union protected to not union protected and still had a message, but we're very careful about how you put that out there. And his uh his paraphrased response was, yeah, fucking knew that was coming, so I was trying to be careful.
unknownThat's fair.
SPEAKER_01No, yeah, and he's the he's he is uh every everybody who knows everybody who knows my story knows the impact Kurt had on my my fire service career. But go ahead, go ahead.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think for for three, uh Kurt just for the the passion and like man, it's like uh I went to battalion chief boot camp, it's like a 40-hour hype class, like it's unbelievable. The just everything he does is so high energy. Um fields and not just because I'm sucking up to him. I already have my job, he already has his job and he can't fire me. So uh he's great, and just the I mean, how can you not see the guy who basically changed the way the entire fire services moves hose and and applies water? Um, and his uh total disregard for time. Time is a construct, right? It's a loose content, very loose. Um, and then for me, I mean, I think there's a lot of uh speakers who have been influential and everything, uh, but I think I'm gonna name my third one, it's gonna be Van Oppen because I've saw seen him a couple times. Um, I saw him right when I first got promoted and it had a good impact on me. And then uh I was able, I offhandedly talked to him at FDIC a handful of years ago. Uh I'm gonna, I don't know if he knows, remembers this story, but uh I ran into him in a hallway. I had seen his class a couple of times. I ran into a hallway and I was like, fuck it, I'm just gonna go talk to this guy, right? So I go up and I introduce myself and I talk to him. I said I went to his class and I liked his class and blah, blah, blah. And just struck up a conversation with him. And uh I don't know what it is, if it's just me or a vibe I'm given, but I tend to people tell me shit. It's kind of weird. Okay. Like strangers will tell me shit. I'm just like, hmm, this is interesting. So we end up in the hallway. I'm supposed to go into Ray McCormick's class, and I'm in the hallway with him for like 20 minutes, and we're talking about like teaching and kind of what I talked to you about a little bit uh a couple weeks ago about the insecurities and you know, imposter syndrome and all that kind of stuff. And he's like sitting there just telling me, hopefully he doesn't get mad at me, sitting there telling me that he's like, Yeah, I feel like I'm a fraud, like I don't get it, I shouldn't be doing this. And I was like, man, and it that stuck with me all day. It was like first thing in the morning, and that stuck with me all day. And I'm like, that's fucked up. Like this guy talks across the country. How can he, who am I that he thinks like this? So I searched around the internet, I found his website, I found his email, and I was just like, hey, I've been thinking about this all day. And I wrote him this email, and uh, I was like, I included my name and my phone number, and I sent it off, and I'm like, all right, well, I feel better that I put it out there. I'm and like nothing's ever gonna come of it. I leave the next morning, I'm sitting on the plane, and my I get it, my phone starts buzzing. I look down, I'm like, what it's getting text messages. I'm like, what is this number? And I open it and it's Mark texting me, and I like lost my shit, right? I'm like, what the fuck? He actually not only did he read my email, now he's texting me. We texted back and forth for like two hours. Oh, wow. And now uh I'm fortunate to call him a friend and get to talk to him all the time. And uh, I wish he wouldn't text me at four in the morning with like paper ideas when I'm sleeping, but I guess he gets up and that's when he's creative. So uh that was huge for me. And I think that's uh part of like what I think about when I go to conferences. I tell people don't not talk to people. Like you're going to these conferences, introduce yourself to people, talk to people. That's how I met you. Like, I saw you doing this, I saw you at the went to your talk and went up to you after class and was like, hey, introduce yourself. Myself, I watch a scrap, I really like it, blah blah. And you're like, thanks, no big deal. We took a picture, and then the next year I was like, Hey, blah blah blah. And then we started talking, and now hopefully, like you can say off camera, we're not, but hopefully we're friends, and it's like it's all like best friends, dude. Like buddies, yes. Uh, it's just being able to just don't be. I go to conferences all the time. I'm with people, and I go, Go talk to this guy. And they're like, I can't fucking go talk to that guy. And I'm like, Yes, you can. And every single person, the imposter syndrome is rampant through the fire service, and every single person is like, Yeah, I shouldn't be doing this. I don't know why people are listening to me. And so I think you should just introduce yourself and go talk to people.
SPEAKER_01Dude, great phenomenal advice for anybody going to a conference. Go ahead. Sorry.
SPEAKER_03My people tell me shit story. I have a really good one with Frank Leib that is that probably feels made up that nobody is gonna believe. Okay. Uh okay.
SPEAKER_01I'm already I'm in. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_03There's the hook. Young officers on fire. A couple years ago, Frank Lee was there talking, and they had their little uh they had a social event afterwards at a brewery, and we're upstairs in the brewery, and I'm like, Oh, that's Frank Lee. I'm gonna go talk to him. And the guy I'm with is like, you can't go talk to him. And I'm like, whatever. So I go over and I was like, hey, chief, how you doing? Blah, blah. Here's you know, blah, and talk to him about his class. I talked to him for five minutes and I shit you not, this actually happened. We're talking, and he's like, Yeah, he's like, Well, you know, he goes, because I just gotta get this off my chest. And I'm just like, okay. And he's like, yeah, he goes, um, I'm actually gonna retire. I'm gonna retire next month, and you know, blah blah blah. And I was like, oh my god, really, blah, blah. And he's like, and then he looks at me and he goes, I don't know why I told you that. He goes, I haven't told anybody that you can't fucking tell anybody I told you that. And I was like, no problem. And then he was just like sitting there just staring at me. It's like, I was like, it's okay, I won't tell anybody. And he's like, and I was like, people tell me stuff, don't worry about it. He's like, he goes, we weren't even on that subject, and I just I just felt like I had to tell you. And I'm like, okay, cool.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome. Uh, one of the best dudes on the planet, too, man. Uh yeah, absolutely. Uh, all right, get back to the questions from the audience. McGinn coming at you. He says, What is the biggest mistake you see young company officers make when they're trying to earn the respect of a seasoned aggressive crew?
SPEAKER_03Uh, I think trying to interject themselves too much into what's going on. Right. So uh typically when we talk about like this kind of feels like a borderline micromanagement question, right? So the young officer, seasoned crew, they're trying to inject themselves, they're trying to show they know what they're doing. Uh, so they're trying to be really involved and want to take on all the teaching and prove to everybody they know what they're doing. They're the officer. That's not their fucking job anymore. Their job is to manage the crew, their job is to go out on the training ground and be like, hey, we have to do this training. You lead it today, and then do your rep and then sit and watch and do your part of it. They don't need to be as hands-on if they need to do practice what they're practicing, uh, which is you know, first arriving and radio and assignments, and then potentially being a backup on the line or whatever. So getting the reps in they need to get, but not necessarily leading the training, not interjecting themselves to the point that the more experienced guys are like, he's just in the way, right? Right. I think that's what tends to happen.
SPEAKER_01I think as uh comes across as as as insecure as you try to prove yourself, you know. Like, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think if you're like, hey, you know, today we have to do whatever, we have to do standpipe operations. So uh we're gonna pull it like this. So we'll we'll be first arriving. Uh, I mean, do my size up, get command set up, and then check in with you guys and see what you need, like we would when we're on scene. You guys do your thing, blah, blah. You know, firefighter Smith, do you want to walk us through how we're gonna take the standpipe or what tools we're gonna use or and all that kind of stuff, and let them lead it and just oversee it and then agree with them and at the end just interject what you need to interject about, you know, this was good, this was good. Hey, I noticed you did this, which isn't normally what we do, and talk about it as opposed to thinking they need to lead the whole training.
SPEAKER_01Right on, right on, solid, solid. Great question, McGinn. And again, of course, as expected, solid answer from Chief Larkin. Uh, was there a specific incident? Uh, mentor assignment or realization that flipped the switch for you was that I don't see who that one's from. Sorry. I don't, I don't, I oh, that was the second half of Rob Fisher's question. Okay, sorry, I was reading the wrong part. My bad. All right. Uh coming at Maddox, coming from Maddox. What is your recommendation for a young husband/slash father to balance work life while working and studying for officer promotion? That's a tough one.
SPEAKER_03That is a tough one. Uh, I wasn't so great at that.
SPEAKER_01Um, I don't I don't know of many of us that were, and that's that's why it's such a tough question.
SPEAKER_03So I think I'm gonna go to the advice I give everybody. Let's go all the way back from you know, let's backtrack from officer to new firefighter and then work our way up. Uh unless it is financially dire necessary. Uh, my recommendation for all new firefighters is don't get a fucking second job. Okay. Okay. Work your fire department job and then have your life. Uh, second jobs are morale killers. Second jobs, you think they're most people I know of who have second jobs, and I'm guilty of it too. Uh, you don't want to disappoint the second job, so you turn down overtime because you've quit on the second job four times to take overtime. So now you can't possibly do it. So now you're going to your second job to make $200 instead of working overtime to make $800 or whatever your metrics are. Um, and then as you're new, start working towards the officer stuff. You shouldn't start working towards the officer stuff when you want to be an officer. That's too late. You know, get hired, get through probation, do what you're supposed to do. And then I would suggest everybody who's in their second year and who's off probation, look at your policy, look at your list of what's required to be an officer and be like, I know, I know I don't want to be an officer, or I want to be a uh captain in five years. Well, the time is to start now, not four and a half years from now. So look at that and slowly peck away at those classes and build that foundation and spend time talking to your officer and listening to your officer about what they're doing. Most in a lot of instances, uh, people are taking promotional exams to get promoted, not necessarily because they think they're ready or it's because it's their time, they're getting promoted to stop somebody else from getting promoted. Sure.
SPEAKER_01No, no, I've heard that many times. I've heard it many times.
SPEAKER_03You better be ready for in case you have to stop somebody. So uh to answer his question about you know, get up early, study at work, use your downtime at work. Um, you know, I tell my guys all the time, we work 48.96, our work day is eight to five. If you need to study for a promotional exam from 5 p.m. to 10, 11 p.m. when you go to bed, that's your time. Use that time, read the book, study when you're at work. That's the what kills me is the guys who are like, Yeah, I didn't do that good on the promotional exam, or I failed the promotional exam. It's like, well, shit, dude, you fucking watched movies every night at the station. Like, you could have read a book.
SPEAKER_01No, it's it's a great point, man.
SPEAKER_03So uh yeah, I just I mean, everybody's got to balance it differently. Use your time-wise. I get I'm at a great situation now when I study for stuff or I want to prepare for stuff. Uh, I'm super fortunate that my wife works from home. She only has to go to the office one day a week, and she only started working like nine or ten years ago. Uh, so during the day, I have plenty of time to stay out of her way and go hide downstairs or outside and read or study or work what I'm working on. Uh, if you have younger kids, you know, nap times, use nap times to study. But really, I think I think anybody can be proficient in what they need to do to pass an officer test if they spend their time on shift wisely studying for the test because you have nights, you have mornings, you have the time during the day. Um, you know, don't alienate yourself from your crew, but spend your time doing what's important to you.
SPEAKER_01Solid. No, tough question, solid answer. Lots of good stuff in there. Uh, I thank you for the question. It's a great question.
SPEAKER_03It's tough because it's gonna be different for every situation. Like some people, you have to have a second job.
SPEAKER_01No, no, because depending on the pay, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03I had to have a third job when I first got hired and took that big of a cut.
SPEAKER_01It wasn't it was a different time, it was a different time because it just didn't pay enough to to to right raise a family.
SPEAKER_03And I'm not gonna sit here to be so brash as some people that I've had the displeasure of knowing who are like, I know how much you fucking make, you don't need that. That's you don't know shit about my life and what I need and what bills or whatever I have. So I'm not gonna tell you it can't solely be a financial decision, but uh everybody has time on shift to study if they if that's their priority.
SPEAKER_01And and and to be clear, you're not saying don't be good at what at the level you're at, you're not saying just be constantly working towards the next level.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you should always be, you know, if we have we are my department. I mean, we are the kings of over-credentialing. Okay, the amount of certifications you need to be a captain in our department are fucking mind-blowing. Uh, they are the equivalent of BC at most departments. Oh, wow. And if you if you think you're gonna get it done in a year, it's not gonna happen. Uh, and so you need to plan that out, and it takes probably two or three years to get the classes, and some of the classes don't come around that often, so they're hard to get, right? Um, so I tell everybody you need to line it out. I have one guy and uh that I'm working with, and I'm like, you need to start taking some of these classes, you're super close, you need to finish. He's like, I don't want to be an officer, and I was like, I totally get that, but you need to have the classes done because you are going to get a time coming up when you're the senior guy and you don't want to be an officer, but you for sure do not want to work for this guy. So you're gonna need to be able to take the test right on. So I'm not saying, you know, oh, you're on probation, you should be thinking about being captain. No, get off probation, be a good firefighter, study what you need to study, but at least start slowly chipping away at that stuff. Chipping away, it's gonna make you it will make you a better firefighter. If you're the driver, you're the back seat guy, and you've done any research or any studying or any classes to be an officer, you're gonna at least have some idea of what your officer is thinking, and you're gonna be able to put yourself in a better position.
SPEAKER_01Beautiful. We got I'm trying that there's still a lot of questions here. I'm trying to see which ones to throw at because I got I like Kyle Pipperall's question because it's that's right.
SPEAKER_03I got a big I got a lot more bullshit.
SPEAKER_01Kyle Piperall has a question back to the fools, but I like this question only because I wonder how many people actually feel this but won't ask it out loud. He says, How do you join a fools chapter as an outsider?
SPEAKER_03What does he mean by I don't know what he means by outsider? I can I can wait for a few. Fools takes everybody. Fools takes everybody. All you have to do is have to be. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01I don't know if people know that.
SPEAKER_03I think that they feel like career, retired, part-time, full-time, volunteer, resident. As long as you have any affiliation with the fire department and have gone through some fire training, you can be a fool.
SPEAKER_01I think that's what he means by outsiders, people who don't know that that that you take everybody, like that's it's all included.
SPEAKER_03As long as you are doing firefighter in some way, if you are an 18-year-old volunteer day two on the job, and you're still working towards your search, but you're affiliated with the department, come on in. We'd love to have you right on.
SPEAKER_01Okay, no, no, and that's why I wanted to ask you because I bet you there are a lot of people who are like, Man, I'm just I'm not a fool. I don't know if I can join. You know, I don't know what it takes, but they're and that's so that's a great question. That's that's the reason I like it. I still get that too.
SPEAKER_03And you know, I've been I'm on the international eboard, and I get people all the time who's like, I didn't know we even had a chapter in our area. And I'm like, You dumb mother, whatever. Okay, yeah, join. Join up, go to the fool, go to the fool's website, go to the chapter find page, see what's close to you. There's usually a uh a link or an email to get to hold them, but find the name of the chapter, and then almost all the chapters are on Facebook because it's such a great place to go search that chapter and then see when their meeting is and walk in the door. And as uh nervous and scared as you're gonna be, you're gonna walk in the door, and you're however many people are there are going to love the fact that you showed up and do everything they can to make you feel comfortable and buy you a beer and invite you to hang out and be better.
SPEAKER_01Right on. And he did he did come back in the in the YouTube chat and he clarified and said, When I mean outsider, I mean most of the the the fools in that chapter are all from one department, and I am not. So that's what he meant by outside.
SPEAKER_03No, and that's the the most fool chapters start, and our my chapter started the same way. Our first e board on my chapter was all my department guys because those are the guys I interacted with on a regular basis. And I'm like, hey, we got to get this going. And then over the course of a year or so, we had you know, this guy from this department, this guy from this department, and now we're a mixed bag. But right, almost across the board to a T, every single fool's chapter starts with five guys and girls. When I say guys in the Northwest, all inclusive generic. Um, they all start with five people from the same department, right? And then it as it the chapter gets older, it spreads out. So it doesn't matter. That's just the group of guys they got to get it going. And uh there is not a chapter out there that is not gonna happily welcome anybody who wants to come in and be a new member.
SPEAKER_01Man, there's so many. I there's a bunch of questions. I like this one from Jay Moses. Moses wants to know what's your take on a very senior man who is pretty lazy in the firehouse, but great on a fire scene.
SPEAKER_03My opinion of him in what regards? Just your take. He wants your take.
SPEAKER_01You said you said if you ask, you'll get your honest opinion. All right, one more, one more time. Give it to me one more time. If what's your take on a very senior man who is lazy in the firehouse, but he's great on a fire scene.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Uh, I talked to one of those guys. I used to have one of those guys. He retired, uh, but I used to have one of those guys, and my my discussion with him was that well, we'll we'll stretch it when he says he was one of those guys because he was soft on the one side. But uh, if he's great on the fire scene, then I'm just gonna pull him aside and be like, you know, look, you are phenomenal on the fire scene, and I get that this is your level of contribution, and he's a senior guy, or you're talking, you know, 15, 20-year guy, I'm gonna guess. Uh, senior guy who's like doesn't want to promote, where's there? And that again, I don't want to anybody to get mad at me. I am if you want to be a backseat guy your whole life, fucking good for you. Like, that is phenomenal. Know what you want to do and do it. Um, but if these a senior guy's 10, 15, 20 years on the job and he's crushing on a fire scene and he's lazy in the house, I don't super care because he's crushing on the fire scene. My discussion with him is gonna be hey, firefighter X, you are killing it on the fire scene. What I need from you, and I get you don't want to do anything else, you just can't be the negative influence in the firehouse. So if you want to lay around and do nothing, that's fine. Do it in your room and don't poison the well. Don't tell other people they don't have to do shit or they can't do more or they can't be better. I will leave you alone and let you fulfill what you're doing as long as you don't bring other people down. The minute you start ragging on other shit or laying around in front of them, then I'm gonna make you do shit and you're not gonna be happy with it. So we'll come to a truce. And then when they're in their room all day, every day, everybody's like, Well, it's that guy, he's in his room all day. But you know, he's being lazy in his room. But if he's in his room and you can't see him, oh, he's studying for something. You just don't know what it is. He's working on something, right? He's not out here in the living room bringing everybody else down, and when he shows up on the fire scene, he's not a liability. So honestly, I don't fucking care.
SPEAKER_01All right, there's a good that was a great question from Moses R. You got what we call Dana's honest take. Absolutely, which takes me to one of my favorite questions that I ask, which is book or books that you think firefighters should be reading. I love this question because I love I love books. So, what books should firefighter doesn't have to be firefighter book, but what books?
SPEAKER_03Uh, I'm currently reading uh shit, I should have grabbed it. It's upstairs. Um it's called uh I think it's called Multipliers.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03Uh it was it was recommended to me by uh I just did this nine-month uh leadership class through the Seattle Fire Department. There was really cool, and they took us around to some really cool places. And one of the places we got to spend the day at was corporate headquarters of Alaska Airlines.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03And one of the main guys from Alaska Airlines came out and was talking about their culture and everything, and he uh was talking about force multipliers in this book, uh, and I believe it's called Multipliers. And it's how how the it's a research book basically where they document how how you can affect change by empowering other people, basically, which uh I'm not super far into it, but it's he highly recommended it, and he said it basically changed the culture at Alaska Airlines, and uh, at least in the Pacific Northwest, that's the go-to airline. So must be doing something right.
SPEAKER_01Right on. Tony Chapman book multipliers.
SPEAKER_03I don't know. Okay, see that's the problem. That's the problem with uh with you know ebooks and stuff like that is you see the cover when you buy it, and then you never fucking see the cover. Never see it again. Remember. Oh, look at this. Look at this special delivery, multipliers.
SPEAKER_01There it is.
SPEAKER_03Lisa Wiseman, got it special delivery by the lovely Michelle who remains off camera who the better happy talking because she's watching upstairs and then ran it down to me.
SPEAKER_01Right on Liz Wiseman multipliers, multipliers. Uh holding your interest so far.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's pretty good. I'm not super far into it, but yeah, it's been good. It's good. Uh and then um uh my gotta give a shout out to somebody who I've talked to a couple, I haven't talked to them about them in the scrap, but uh wrote a book that completely uh I stumbled upon at the same time I went to those conferences. Uh, and I absolutely would not have been promoted or gotten to where I'm at if it wasn't for um uh oh my god, I'm gonna totally blank right now. Oh no, oh no, told you I was that that's a big buildup.
SPEAKER_01That's a big buildup to pull a blank.
SPEAKER_03Um I could picture him in my face. Um the oh my god, I can't believe Anthony Castros, Chief Anthony Castros. Absolutely. Oh my god, totally drove blank mastering uh the fire department assessment center. Right on, right on. Game changing. Uh, I read that and I was like, oh my god. And I went from, you know, I was doing okay on promotional tests to I absolutely crushed uh and made a huge difference. And so I have personally thanked him numerous times for writing that book. Uh, and then I'm also a big fan of Calm the Chaos, so his Calm the Chaos book with Brian Crush.
SPEAKER_01Crush, right on right on. Uh beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.
SPEAKER_03And then I got to give a book like you can't just be fire department only. So okay. Uh for anybody who's seen the Ryan Gosling movie Grey Man, there's a series of books. There's like 16 of them. My son sent me one for Father's Day and then sent me one for my birthday. So I'm on the second one. The gray man series books, top, top notch. I powered through that. Uh yeah. Okay, okay. Read something outside the service. Like, yeah, yeah. I love it. Read something outside.
SPEAKER_01I love good fiction. So if the if there's 16 books and and he says they're doing you're two in. I'm I mean, I'm sold. I'm always looking for something long to read.
SPEAKER_03Uh I mean it'll take me considerably longer to read them than my son. He probably bought all 16 books and read them in like four days, but yeah, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_01I'm currently on an adventure with a guy who wears boxers and has a talking cat. So anyway, uh no, nice. This brings us to the five questions for firefighters, which is something we do here on the scrap. I think you're I think you're well well aware. The answers are completely there's no right answers, they're just your opinion.
SPEAKER_03The point's right answer, there are correct answers.
SPEAKER_01The points are arbitrary assigned by me. So, Dana Larkin, are you ready for the five questions for firefighters? Yes, I am. Here we go. Number one, you have a time machine, but it can only be used for one thing. You can go back in time and give your younger self one piece of advice. What would it be?
SPEAKER_03Okay. I mean, I I have two answers for this. Okay. Because just like like everything, I make my own rules. Uh outside the fire service, I would go back in time and tell younger self to buy more Microsoft stock. Okay. Inside the fire service, uh, I would go back. Uh, I really wish I could go back to 37 year old Dane. Know just off probation and tell him to get his fucking ass into a conference and not waste the first eight years of his career.
SPEAKER_01Beautiful. No, that's awesome. No, and I like uh I anytime you can have that that that that growth, uh, no doubt about it. Number two, it is job town, it's time. You are in route and responding. And I know you love music, so I know this question can't be easy for you, or maybe it was. That scene from Backdraft, in route. What's that song for you? What song are you playing on the way to Job Town?
SPEAKER_03Uh yeah, I immediately had two songs come to mind. Um, so but oh Sam's telling me only one. I will tell you my one, and then I'm gonna tell you my caveat. So, my one song, it's my ringtone. Okay, it's my it's my I just heard my wife upstairs go, Oh god, it's my ringtone. I love it already. It's my alarm tone. Uh, it is the greatest band in the world. Uh, they have two million monthly listeners on Spotify for the last five years. I've been in the top ten. Last year I was number six of their listeners. Uh lit up by Buckcherry. Buckcherry. Buckcherry. Lit up. Lit up. Okay. That is the first Buck Cherry. I'm I'm almost I'm I'm confident in saying that 100% the first Buckcherry. I do have a caveat. I do have a caveat though that uh I am I went through the Spotify list a few weeks ago, and I gotta say, I'm super disappointed. So uh maybe we have to do this in the vigilante meetup, make the vigilantes vote, but I want to make a motion. Okay, I motion I'm intrigued. I motion I'm listening that based on your question, which references rescue me, talks about rescue me, is all around rescue me. How the fuck do you not have the theme song for rescue me? Come on, come on, by the Von Bondies as Von Bondi's and come on come on is a is a phenomenal. No, I I listen, I don't control it shouldn't have it shouldn't have to waste my vote to get the theme song for the show you're referencing on the list.
SPEAKER_01I mean has no one ever said the theme song to rescue me, the von Bondi's Come On, come on. I I had that as my ringtone for quite some time. But it's a tragedy, it's a tragedy. I don't pick the songs. There are songs on there I wouldn't put on there, right?
SPEAKER_03So I don't I can't waste I can't waste my pick because Buck Cherry is way too important to me in my life to not have it on number six, number six out of two million, number six in the world.
SPEAKER_01I think you ought to uh you can't waste it on the Von Bondy. So there you go.
SPEAKER_03It's one of the two things I'm good at. You want to know what the other thing is?
SPEAKER_01Let's hear it.
SPEAKER_03Not losing my hair.
SPEAKER_01That is those are my two.
SPEAKER_03Those are my two.
SPEAKER_01You do have an impressive pop. I really is. It's nice. I'm very jealous. I will put it that way. Number three, we're on to number three. Cold weekend at the station. It is rig checks are done, training is done, PT is done, food is cooking. In other words, it's a lazy day, but you're not being lazy. You're clicking through the channels, and that that movie is there. You're gonna watch it no matter where it's at in the movie. What is that movie for you?
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna watch it no matter where it is in the movie. Yes, and then I'm gonna come home and watch it in full the next day.
SPEAKER_01Okay, this is the next level. Go ahead. What is it?
SPEAKER_03Crazy stupid love.
SPEAKER_01Crazy stupid love.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, with Ryan Gosling and uh is that your second gosling Steve Krell. Gosling's like, man, he's a sexy man, isn't he?
SPEAKER_01I can't argue. I cannot argue. If I'm gonna waste a man crush, uh, he's up there in the argument.
SPEAKER_03Uh yeah, it's got him, it's got uh uh Steve Krell, um, and then the the red-headed chick from La La Land and all the other stuff. I can't remember her name. Okay, okay, super good. And it's for anybody who hasn't seen it, spoiler, craziest fucking plot twist that you don't see coming of all time. It's awesome.
SPEAKER_01Okay, now I gotta see it.
SPEAKER_03Emma Stone. Emma Stone. Emma Stone. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Number four. And that yeah, I don't think I would do it. Max points on crazy, stupid love never been said before, and I was not expecting it. But number four, what is the one habit that you believe separates average firefighters from exceptional firefighters?
SPEAKER_03Uh you got to get out of your bubble, man. You got to go to conferences. I don't have I said that enough this this time. I think there is a thing. Go to conferences, see people outside of your realm of people. Uh, know and learn early on that there is more to fire than your firehouse or your fire department. Right on.
SPEAKER_01No, that that's uh that's yeah, easy, easy max points on get outside your bubble. Number five, this is the question that never changes heavy fire and searchable space. Would you rather be assigned to the nozzle or first in on VES? Excuse me.
SPEAKER_03Well, my answer doesn't change, but if I didn't give this answer with who my AC was, I'd probably get fired tomorrow. But I gotta go with nozzle.
SPEAKER_01The nozzle forward, right? I didn't know, I didn't know because I tried to guess, and it it said that you know, uh ladders we don't have we don't have a truck in our department.
SPEAKER_03Okay, okay, everything is based off the engine. Okay, so it's it's all engine first and then truck work as we get more personnel. So first do is always grabbing the line.
SPEAKER_01I love the answer. I love the answer.
SPEAKER_03If you're not first, you're last. So I better fucking get there first so my crew can get the line. I love it. There you go.
SPEAKER_01Max points number five, and that officially makes it the five questions for firefighters in the books, which makes it 361 scraps in the books. Dana Larkin, first of all, thank you so much for spending your evening with us, sharing your knowledge of the fools uh and fielding so many killer questions. Uh, if someone wants to get a hold of you, reach out to you. What's the best way to do so?
SPEAKER_03Uh, my fool's email address is treasurer at fools international.com. My private email address, which I have had since email started, is water specialist at msn.com.
SPEAKER_01Oh wow.
SPEAKER_03Which is weird. All my jobs before the fire service also revolved around water. It's crazy. Okay, okay, okay. Um uh or uh my cell phone number 425-478-5539. Just uh I prefer texts, but please tell me who you are when you text me. Because if it's just a text that's like, hey, what's going on? I'm gonna delete it. You got to give me a name.
SPEAKER_01Fair. No, absolutely. And he's not good with names, so be you have to put the name in there. Send a picture with the name, a face, and a name.
SPEAKER_03Oh, that'd be money.
SPEAKER_01There's a life hack. Uh, beautiful, man. Beautiful. Thank you so much. Uh, that was that was uh so much going on, so many questions we didn't get to. Uh, all right.
SPEAKER_03I'm super I'm super excited to be a part of this and be like I said this to you before, and you laughed because you said other people have said it, but I'm super excited to be on 361 soon to be known as the lowest viewed scrap of all time.
SPEAKER_01Sam, how often do we hear that? Like, like every year it's like no one's gonna show up. I don't know what we didn't even talk, we didn't even talk about every week. It don't matter who it is.
SPEAKER_03They don't mean it like I do, though.
SPEAKER_01That's fair, not like Dana does. All right, housekeeping. Go to patreon.com slash the vigilantes. The discord is where it's at. There you go, man. In fact, Manda was sending out coins today, numbered coin when you hit your one-year anniversary. There's so much going on with the vigilantes, including the after party, which is one of the coolest parts where we get to go and roast Dana for his love of Buck Cherry and so easy to do. Yes, it's gonna be fun. I'm looking forward to this one actually. But there's so much going on with the vigilantes. I'm listening I I know I talk about it each and every week, but the vigilante codex, this project that we're working on, I think it's gonna have a huge impact on the fire service. And if you want to be a part of it, come in there and be with the doers, the movers and the shakers, the like-minded souls, come join us. It's like all the best parts of social media without all the BS of social media. Go ahead, Sam. Ooh, that's a good call. Uh, Sam's reminding me I don't know if everybody can hear you, Sam or not. So I'm saying, I'm just repeating everything you say. The uh July 9th, we are meeting on the Vigilanties. We're having a live get together to discuss where the future of the codex and the direction. We're gonna start. There's been a lot of brainstorming, and we're gonna get the direction, start locking it in and starting to get stuff done on the Vigilante Codex. So that being said, next week on the scrap, it is Tommy Gunn back once more, Steven Runyon, one of the most listened to guests ever on the scrap. He's in the top, I want to say five scraps of all time. And then two weeks from today, it will be time to get it on with none other than Jerry Wells. So you want to make sure and bring your questions, which you always do. So, okay, enough jabbering from me. Time for the after party. Thank you once again, Dana Larkin, treasurer of the Fools International, for coming on and hanging out with us this evening.
SPEAKER_03I appreciate it. That was you got to the questions. I was like, holy fuck, has it been an hour already? It goes crazy fast.
SPEAKER_01It was, it went flu flying by. And it does every week. It's I love it, but uh it's all yeah, I yeah, uh uh audience. I audience, you tune in every week, you make the scrap magical. Thank you so much for showing up. Thank you so much for bringing your questions and setting me and the guests up for success. You know I love you all. Remember, mutts don't scrap. I hope the tone stays silent unless it is burning. This job is not safe, so stay smart out there. Thanks for listening to the weekly scrap.
SPEAKER_00Please subscribe and please share. We'll see you at the next episode.