Transcript of the Louder than Silence Podcast Episode #9: It Wasn’t Your Fault 

Transcribed by Adam Soisson 

[Inspirational theme music plays.] 

>> Lori: Thank you for joining us. In this podcast, we are real people, talking about real things. Child abuse and neglect: a topic that is all too often left in the shadows of silence, leaving survivors alone, fearful, and oftentimes without a voice. We’re having conversations to become louder than silence. It is here, where we will invite you to join us and be the change needed to end child abuse and neglect.  

>> Lori: Hey everybody thank you so much for joining us for the National Foundation to End Child Abuse and Neglect’s podcast. My name is Lori Poland and I’m the Executive Director of EndCAN and today I have my dear, dear friend Michael. I’ve been waiting for this interview for a long time. I’m just really excited that Michael’s here with me to be doing this. We have so much to talk about today and Michael has a story like so many people but is so proud and so unique in the way that he tells it and talks about it. He has truly lived his life to break the cycle of abuse. He’s an exceptional father, a wonderful husband and a very, very dear friend. So Michael I’d love for you to tell us about you and what makes you tick.  

>> Michael: Well first it’s really hard to describe who I am. I’m just an average guy that struggled for a lot of years to figure out who I was and where I belonged. It wasn’t really until I had my own son that life kind of made sense because for so many years before that I was really in a self-destruct mode. Any time something felt good to me I pushed that away or destroyed it in every aspect of life whether it was jobs or relationships or even my own life. I just tried to put it all out and it was just the miracle of being a father and realizing that hey, fatherhood is good and having a child is a great thing. So I’ve learned to live my life not necessarily for my son but it gave me such clarity and he gave me a new direction about child abuse. Really. Looking at my son, especially when he was very, very tiny and now he’s taller than I am, but when he was really, really small I couldn’t imagine anybody abusing a child. I just couldn’t comprehend it. It made me really angry, more so than I’d ever been before and I had at that point gotten back in contact with my mother and tried to put all of that behind me because it was the Christian thing to do. I decided when Spencer was about four, that’s when I decided I’m going to go back and kind of write all this stuff down. Even though you know it and you remember it, it’s like it happened yesterday all the time, I needed to read it. I needed to put it down in words and re-adjust to it I guess. So the more that I wrote, the more I remembered how I felt back when I was struggling so that’s kind of what got me started on the book even though when I started writing I wasn’t planning on writing a book. It was for me. Everything was to try to heal me. Like I said, I remembered being three years ago and struggling, really struggling to understand why this happened. Did it happen? Then knowing that it did, why it happened and why was I at fault. Then I wasn’t at fault. Just all of those things and going through counseling and having to tell these horror stories that happened it messes with your brain. So I searched to try to find somebody I could relate to. Child abuse in the ‘60s and ‘70s and ‘80s really wasn’t spoken about. It was something that was at home and even if people might suspect it they didn’t know how to identify it and they weren’t trained to identify it. it certainly didn’t happen to boys, and if it did what was wrong with the boy. You know, I think it was last week or this week that teacher that had abused her student that ended up going to prison and marrying him, she just passed away. It was crazy, she was like, “I didn’t know it was wrong.” How do you not know it’s wrong? So that’s where I was really at when I started to write and I realized at a certain point this needs to be out for someone else to find and read and to understand it doesn’t just happen, you’re not alone you know what I mean? It’s a very hard thing for anybody to try to accept and admit to because you definitely feel this shame and you feel like you’re to blame for that. But, you know, I wanted to make sure that the message I wanted to get across is every person that’s ever been abused is it’s not your fault and you’re not alone. I don’t care if someone needs to call me at 3:00 in the morning. If I can help them just by listening and understanding, having them know that I have been through that and I know exactly where they are, that’s my goal. It’s not like, it’s a few different incidents that happened to me but hopefully there’s enough of those that somebody can relate not so much to the incident but the feeling and the fear and the things that go along with those incidents. 

>> Lori: So tell us the title of your book. 

>> Michael: It is called Stolen Innocence: A Childhood Lost and I called it that because of course my childhood was lost. I had a childhood but I didn’t have a childhood. My childhood was surviving and living in fear every day. What was going to happen today? When you’re a child the one person you’re supposed to be able to trust in your life is your mother so all the innocence that a child should have was taken from me at a very young age. I don’t ever remember being innocent. I was exposed to the horrors of life, of just the most despicable thing that a person can do to another person. So it didn’t end when I turned 17 and left my home. It was something that I struggled with for another 17,18 years. Well into my 40s. 

>> Lori: So why now? 

>> Michael: Well it was interesting, as I was saying when I started to write it, it was to cleanse again and it helps. The more you talk about it, for me, it helps. It’s easier, it’s so matter of fact now. I don’t have any fears about sharing, I don’t have any apprehension about it. I’ll tell you anything you want to know because it helps me, it gives me a release and a relief from all of it. So as I started to write and really focused on then becoming a book, then it was almost an “eff you” to my family. Really, because then it took on a whole different animal. It was like, “Okay, maybe it was to get back at them” then at a certain point I didn’t even care about them. I don’t care if they ever see it, I don’t care if they ever read it because it’s just like everyone that they’re in denial and they’re going to say, “Well that never happened” or “It wasn’t that bad” or they’ll try to minimize it like it was normal and I don’t need anything from them so it’s not about my family. The reason, now, is it’s time. I’m at a point where, like I said, I’m as strong as I’ve ever been and people need to hear this. I’m tired of abuse. I’m tired of hearing about other people being abused. I’m tired of listening to the stories of other people that happened last week and I’m tired of it being kind of glossed over and it not being a big deal and, “well, yeah it happened to her but it’s kind of okay.” Really, because we have a President that I really think he’s one of them.  

>> Lori: Meaning a survivor? 

>> Michael: No I think he’s an abuser and I just, you don’t have that kind of attitude towards people that are suffering without being an abuser but that’s a whole different subject so that’s why [laughs]. 

>> Lori: Yeah. And now that it’s out you can get your book on Amazon. Is there anywhere else people can get it? 

>> Michael: It’s just on Amazon right now. I haven’t started a website. So it’s really funny, when I first contacted my family a year and a half or two years ago, to let them know that it was about to be published because obviously they’re in it so I didn’t want it to be a big shocker. They filed a lawsuit against me, they thought it was about money. I mean, I’d have to sell quite a bit to make anything on it. it’s not about money, it’s about getting help to people who need help. If it’s just one other tool that’s what it’s about so I encourage anyone who has gone through abuse especially people that are still trying to get their heads around it and are maybe not ready for counseling because when I was in my early 30s is when I first got out of the military and went back to school. My whole focus was to learn as much as I could about psychology and all of that but I still went into bookstores and, looking over my shoulder to make sure nobody knew what I was looking for, trying to research I was looking for a story I could read. It goes all the way back to the Menendez brothers. I remember when they were arrested and they were telling their stories on the witness stand and people were discrediting them saying, “oh no that couldn’t have happened” but you don’t tell these stories unless they happened. That’s not stuff you make up. So, you know, unfortunately they’re in prison for the rest of their lives and I’m not justifying that they killed their parents but it’s just, they didn’t know what to do with it. A lot of the abuse victims have that anger and are mad at the world because they don’t have anybody else in their corner or they don’t feel like anyone else is there on their side. I encourage anybody who’s struggled and wondering why this happened, read my book and hopefully it will help you. 

>> Lori: Well I think if anything your book highlights that people are not alone. And that, alone, is the single sense of hope. That’s the string to the kite that could take us somewhere, right? That’s how you and I connected. I’ll never forget our first conversation, it was like three hours long and I didn’t want to hang up the phone. I’ve met thousands of survivors in my life but I’ve never felt like I was with a fellow the way that I did in that day. I was in my office, I’ll never forget it. I cried, we laughed, we just went on and on. You have a way of making people feel like they’re not alone and when I read your book that was my sense of, first I just ached for your experiences. The stories were heart-wrenching and the same questions that I’ve asked of my perpetrator. How could somebody do that to another person? Those same questions about yours and my initial response was anger and frustration and my follow-up response as I kept going was that of, it’s not about them, it’s not about the people that caused us harm and it’s about what we’re doing with our experiences and how we’re taking it to another level. Tell me, how do you feel now that it’s out? How are you feeling? 

>> Michael: You know it’s funny because I feel absolutely relieved, I feel like I’ve run this race for so long and I never believed that I would get to the end of the race meaning getting the story out because it took me ten years from the time I sat down to start it to get it finally out. There was a lot of times where it was too much for me and I would put it away. It was kind of that same self-destruct rather than just buckling down and getting it done. It was a long, tough journey going through it again, three or four times because every time I would edit it, it would be another time I had to go through all this again. They aren’t just words, they’re those memories and they come back pretty vivid. It was tough but I’ll never forget when I hit send and it was out there.  

>> Lori: I know you texted me [laughs] 

>> Michael:  Yeah it was crazy. When I got the notification that it was live I couldn’t believe it so I went and looked on Amazon and said, “wow there it is.” Now it’s funny because I’ve reached out to people that I knew when I was in elementary school because I remember how I was in elementary school and how I lived in this very protected shell that I had created so I was a certain person to them but I probably didn’t make a lot of sense to them because I had so much sadness within me and so I contacted them. The great thing about Facebook and social media, is you’re able to find people that you never thought you’d see again. We knew each other years and years and years ago, when we were like seven and you probably don’t remember it but I do remember a time in Mrs. Goodhope’s class when we all had cupcakes and i just lost my mind. I started crying for no reason. You guys didn’t know what was going on with me, you just thought I was a basket case. Well, I wrote this book and if you can take the time to read it you’ll understand a little bit better why I was like that then. Not to forgive me or anything like that but just to let people have a clear picture of who I am, what I was, what I was going through. I know kids, looking back, I know kids that were abused too. Just because I recognize that stuff in them. Of course when you’re a kid, you’re all about you. I don’t know if I ever told you this story about my sixth grade teacher. Did I ever tell you about my sixth grade teacher? I went back as an adult and went by my old elementary school. I was an adult and I was okay in my brain at that time and I stopped by and he was the principal at that point. Coolest guy I ever met when I was a kid, he had this cool Charger and he was just a cool guy with big, long sideburns so I went back as an adult and had coffee with him in the cafeteria. You’re in this cafeteria that you were in when you were a third grader and fourth grader and you’re like, “wow this thing is way smaller than it was back then.” He says to me, “Years after you left we had to start taking some training. You came to mind during this training. We were being trained to recognize abuse at home. I need to ask you, were you abused as a kid?” and I said, “Oh yeah. Any way you can imagine a child could be abused, I was abused.” I didn’t know how he was going to react to that but he started crying and apologized to me for not protecting me. That was something that was 30 years ago and that has stuck with me. It’s just so horrendous, child abuse, where it’s about the kids of course but it’s the other people that feel helpless not knowing what to do. That’s why child abuse is so horrible and society wants to address it but they don’t want to address it. It’s the right thing to address it but people don’t want to get involved and everybody needs to get involved because you would not want this to happen to your child. There’s no reason for it, there’s no excuse for it. I don’t know how to end it but if everybody yells about it maybe it will stop. That would be great if my book wasn’t needed anymore, that no other book was needed about child abuse. That would be awesome.  

>> Lori: If there were just books about history, right? 

>> Michael: Yeah  

>> Lori: Oh man thank you for being here today, thank you for being candid, thank you for sharing your heart, thank you for writing your book, thank you for being my friend, and thank you for being such an advocate for this issue. I am such a cheerleader of yours and I know you are of mine. 

>> Michael: Yes I am 

>> Lori: I think we’re going to be longtime friends and I’m just really, really grateful. I just want to thank you again and thanks everybody for listening today to our podcast. You can check out Michael’s book on Amazon, it’s called Stolen Innocence: A Childhood Lost. It’s an exceptional book, it’s so from the heart and I would encourage anybody and everybody to grab it and read it and join us. Thank you my friend and you have an absolutely beautiful day. Take care everybody. 

[Inspirational theme music plays.] 

>>Lori: I want to thank each of you again for joining us today and listening in. If you or someone you know is being abused, please call 1-800-4-A-CHILD. To learn more about EndCAN, visit www.endcan.org or find us on all social media platforms. Join us in being Louder than Silence and being a part of the change. Please leave a comment, like our podcast, or share with your friends. The more the word spreads, the more of a collective impact we can have. If you have a question or you know someone who would want to be a guest on our podcast, please contact bethechange@endcan.org. Thanks again, and have a great day.  

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