Keith's time out-of-cell is severely limited, due to the high numbers of prison staff out sick due to COVID, For this first of a two-part season finale, Keith lays it all out. Speaking from inside his cell, he talks about changes at the prison and reflects on an event that hit very close to home for him.
Keith's time out-of-cell is severely limited, due to the high numbers of prison staff out sick due to COVID, For this first of a two-part season finale, Keith lays it all out. Speaking from inside his cell, he talks about changes at the prison and reflects on an event that hit very close to home for him.
Hi, I’m Brian Jackson.
In this podcast, which is really about survival – both spiritual and emotional– we look at the lies we are uncovering and the truths we are constantly discovering that help us to extract the splinters of society from our minds. This podcast is about music, justice and everything in between. This is Pieces of a Man.
Welcome to Pieces of a Man; I'm Brian Jackson, one-half of the duo Gil Scott-Heron and Brian Jackson and along with co-host Keith LaMar, we look in on music and justice in America and the intricate relationship they share.
Keith is calling in from death row at the Ohio State Penitentiary, in solitary confinement for over 27 years, convicted, while in prison, for crimes several witnesses have testified he did not commit.
As the year 2020 crashes defiantly to a close, the virus known as COVID-19 has caused the world to take a look at the way we do everything. From how we work to where we work, to how we interact and most importantly, how we live.
Small businesses are crumbling, families are missing loved ones at holiday gatherings, and simple human intimacy – already taking a beating from social media – is now muzzled by masks – as if the masks we were already wearing to protect our true selves weren’t hard enough to keep up with. But now it's not personal. It’s medical – and it's necessary.
It might be seen as a test for some of the most pious among us, the ones who claim to care for their fellow man and woman, to see if they really care enough to do something as simple as not imposing their saliva droplets on others.
One place that is clear that love of humanity does not prevail is in the prison system. Here in the United States, the over 2.3 million people in 1,833 state prisons, 110 federal prisons, 1,772 juvenile correctional facilities. 3,134 local jails, 218 immigration detention facilities and 80 Indian Country jails as well as in military prisons, civil commitment centers and state psychiatric hospitals, inmates are sure to be the last to be vaccinated against COVID-19. They watch as the disease rips through the confines, waiting and wondering who will be next.
Because of the current situation at the prison, which Keith explains in this episode, it's been difficult to schedule time with him for the calls he can normally more or less freely put in from the public phone in “the cage,” as it's called, outside of his cell. It has the best sound quality because it's a landline and although he's allowed a cell phone, it is of a much poorer sound quality and is subject to interference and lost signals.
Due to technical reasons, we come in a few moments after the start of our conversation:
BRIAN: ...because you and me, man, we’ve talked about these things before, but we've never talked about them on the podcast. And what I began to understand is that – some of the simple things that I take for granted, man – you are denied these things on a daily basis. And for those of us who have never been incarcerated, it’s unfathomable, man. The things we do every day that we never even think about... For instance: when is the last time you saw the sun? When is the last time you were outside in the fresh air?
KEITH: Well, it's been over a year since I've been outside; it's a little sliver of a window here in the cell so I see the sun every day. When was the last time I felt the sun? That's been over a year now. And it's kind of, it's kind of hard to explain because I do have the ability to go outside – and we fought for that ability because when I first came here to the supermax, outside was a cage with a slit cut into the wall with some air holes punched into a steel grate.
You know when they came to get me for rec they asked me did I want to go outside or inside. I said, “Outside, of course,” and they brought me to this room and said “OK we will be back in an hour to get you.” And so that was one of the reasons why we went to court and the court made them build rec cages outside.
But it's so complicated to get down there; it's such a hassle. And when you're down there you can't see who's going into your cell so you don't have any way to address anything that might happen out of your view.
BRIAN: I see.
It's a lot of different reasons, man, but also one of the reasons why I haven't been outside is because, Brian, sad as it is to admit brother – you can't live in this situation without becoming in some ways institutionalized, right? You know, I know I need to go outside just to get the vitamin D, just to get the fresh air, you know because I'm breathing this recirculated air – but it’s so – and I was talking about this the other day about when people don't want you to do something they make it hard and it's been made so hard – because you can go outside and they'll just leave you out there for two, three hours and you might have to use the restroom and then you've got to urinate out in the rec cage, where somebody else is coming behind you... and then they'll write you up for urinating and then you lose your rec and you'll lose access to the kiosk so I can't communicate with my family.
But even more than that - I guess there’s ways around that, but even more than that, man, psychologically, you know – I've been traumatized, man, basically. You know, like I've got to voluntarily put on the handcuffs, voluntarily. And when I go from cell to the rec cage, from cell to the kiosk, they handcuff me at the cell front and then, while I’m walking to and from, they hold on to my arms the whole way.
So you know it's just an incredible inconvenience. But ultimately psychologically man I think it's just part of the penalty, or the price you have to pay with being dehumanized in this way, man, that you kind of give up some of the things that make you human – and so I haven't volunteered to go outside and I keep telling my friends that I gotta force myself, I know, I know. But I haven't as yet been able to do that, man and I have everything I need – I have winter clothes, boots, gloves, jacket, hat – you know, my family makes sure that I have all these things. But what I don't have is the motivation, man, to really just push myself out there. But every time I go out – which was about a year or so ago, I'm glad – I say, “Ah say man I'm so glad to be out here,” to feel the fresh air going in my lungs...
PRISON ID MESSAGE
Yeah, my eyes are watering up just thinking about it man, you know. I know it's something I've just gotta force myself, push myself past and I will... I'll probably try to go out sometime this week man - I don't even know if they're allowing us to go outside right now with these COVID protocols in place and so as soon as I can, I'm gonna try, man. I'm just going to force myself to do it 'cause I know I need to do it.
BRIAN: I understand, brother. I understand, man. I’m sorry – I feel bad for asking you man, but I just – I just want people to know...
KEITH: No, no! Yeah people, people - yeah that's a good question. It's a good question, man, just to bring people into the situation because you’re constantly making choices, because this whole situation is dehumanizing. Everything you do is dehumanizing.
If you want to go see your family on a visit let's say – you have to first undergo a strip search. You gotta take off all your clothes, spread your cheeks - bend over, spread your cheeks and all this stuff, man - in front of another man. You know, then you go up there, you know, for whatever time and you’re with your family and you're smiling and you're laughing and you come back and you gotta do the same thing all over again. You know. And that to me is like a no brainer – I want to see my family whatever the price I've got to pay – but you pay a price, though.
And so, what you do, you try to compensate for what you lost in this exchange or this interaction with other ways where, “I'm not going to do this for rec,” or “I'm not going to do this.” So, you constantly- it's a balancing act; you're trying to keep the balance sheet in your favor. I'm talking about “in your favor” in terms of your humanity because they're always asking you to give up your humanity in one form or another. That's what this is all about; you know, that's what this is all about, because once you give up your humanity and you're operating on the level of an animal as far as being stuck in the cause and effect, we've got you. Now we can control what you do now and so this thing is perpetuated then. So, you know, it's a constant game of give and take, man and sometimes you lose and sometimes you come out even. You never win; you come out even though, and that's better than nothing, you know, yeah.
BRIAN: I think our listeners will hear the difference in the quality today in your – the phone line is not the same quality as it usually is and I wanted you to explain a little bit about why.
KEITH: Well, there's been an outbreak here in the prison – a COVID outbreak. A lot of guards apparently contracted the virus and so they're out sick and anybody who was around those guards who tested positive are on two-week quarantine, which has resulted in a shortage of staff. And so, they've gone from three shift to two shifts and the National Guard came in to fill in for the guards who are out sick and so this has kind of hampered our movement, or the time out-of-cell that we usually have.
Generally, on any given day, I'm out of the cell about four hours a day because I come out for rec on the 1st shift and 2nd shift. But now, since they've consolidated the shifts, I'm only out an hour a day now and within an hour I have to get my workout in I have to send my...
PRISON ID MESSAGE
And so generally when you and I have these conversations I'm out on a landline. Here in this cell, I'm on a phone, but it's Wi-Fi and so the signal is not that strong.
BRIAN: And it’s subject to interference.
KEITH: Ideally, I'd like to be in a – yeah, yeah and you can hear – you know, I have my door blocked up and everything but this microphone is super sensitive and so you probably can hear when they come through, you can hear the door slam if somebody says something, you know, they might be able to hear that too. But this is one of those interviews that we are doing under challenging circumstances.
But that's what it is – a day in the life of being incarcerated. You know, you never know what tomorrow might bring.
BRIAN: You were concerned a little bit – I don't know if we’re gonna put this in the broadcast or not – but you were concerned a little bit about your, about your health a little while ago. You were having some, some symptoms of like, kind of brain fog and... Can you talk a little bit about that?
KEITH: Yeah, yeah. I uh... Yeah man, this has been going on for years, um, well a few years ago, they went from – yeah because this place is a self-sustained world, prisons. They had farms – they used to have farms that supplied the meat and dairy, vegetables and all these things. Prisoners worked those farms. But a few years ago, the governor, in order to save money switched to this corporation called Aramark.
KEITH: You know, these are the same people who supply the food for football stadiums, public schools?
BRIAN: Aramark, yeah.
KEITH: And they kind of like - so when they did that – it's all processed foods – all of it. You know, I haven’t, I haven’t – we get one – one piece of real meat a year now on Christmas.
BRIAN: A year!?
Other than that, it’s – one piece of real meat on Christmas. A piece of roast beef and that's it.
BRIAN: Oh my God.
KEITH: Other than that it's all processed.
You know, for 13 years, Brian I was a vegetarian...
BRIAN: Understandably.
KEITH: ...but when they switched – yeah I mean, even when they were, you know, were serving us meat because meat every day isn't good for you – at least not for your digestive system, so I switched over to vegetarian but when they made this wrong for money that just became untenable, I just couldn't eat. Because they were literally serving you bowel movements, basically. It smelled like it and it looked like it. You know, how it should look when it comes out it looked like that way going in. And so, I just couldn't stomach it, I just couldn't.
And so, I started taking supplements, thinking that I would just pick my shots and use the supplements to kind of make up for what I was losing in terms of nutrients and whatnot. And apparently – taking those supplements were kind of adding a lot of toxicity to my body. And so, I've been dealing with a lot of mental fog, a lot of fatigue and other things and so I finally, after going on a fast and slowly reintroducing things into my diet and keeping a log I was able to, kind of through the process of elimination, figure out, “oh it's these vitamins” and so now I haven't been taking them for several weeks, going on a month and I feel like myself. I' mean...
ONE MINUTE WARNING
I'll be 52 years old in a couple of months... but I feel pretty good, I feel pretty good man. And thankfully I've been able to maintain my exercise routine and everything and so I'm back to doing yoga and everything.
BRIAN: Oh, that's, that's fantastic because I mean, I guess if you get sick in there – like you told me – they just give you some ibuprofen and send you back.
KEITH: Ibuprofen, yeah, right. And that's the thing: you don't want to get sick, and so you've gotta be real strategic in how you live in these places because it's not equipped to deal with...
PRISON ID MESSAGE
…you gotta be real strategic about how you feel how you handle your health it's real important to do that and I learned that early on, so, I’ve been lucky, man. I've been lucky.
BRIAN: Call me back. Call me back. Alright. (Waits for Keith’s callback)
Just a quick note while we wait: So after 15 minutes, we are automatically disconnected. I can't call him back, I have to wait for him to call me and then go through the sequence of me accepting the call and all that. So... here we go.
So, you mentioned the rec room. What's the rec room like? How much time do you get to do there and kind of describe the process of getting there and working out.
KEITH: Well, the rec room – they call them “rec cages.” That's the euphemism, that's what everybody calls them. I guess it's appropriate given the fact that... especially the outside...
Another reason why I stopped going outside – it was one big area – where I and somebody else, another individual, when we had congregate rec, would go out there and walk around, play basketball – two on two... It was a fairly decent size. But in the last year - and that was court mandated that they did that space so we could walk around. But here in the last year or so they've divided that up into eight or four different subsections, four or five different subsections so they could get more people out there at one time and decrease the work that they have to do. I imagine that's the reason why they did it. So that's another reason why I don't really go out; because the area’s been kind of cut in half basically, you know. But yeah, the rec cages in themselves inside is a pull up bar and then some of them have a dip bar and a sit-up station and you get an hour, typically – the average prisoner...
PRISON ID MESSAGE
There's 16 people to a pod.
BRIAN: They got no weights or anything in there?
No weights or anything like that. At one point we had those elastic bands, those rubber bands but they even took those and said that that was –
BRIAN: A weapon...?
– too much like weights; it was building strength. They don't want to build you up; you know what I mean?
BRIAN: Oh yeah, right, I get you.
KEITH: We had a medicine ball briefly too and they saw that we were using it and the next thing you know that disappeared. So it's just your own body weight that you're dealing with.
I weigh about 230 pounds, so that's a lot of weight to pull. Doing pull-ups and dips and things of that nature. I just use my own body weight.
And you know, in here man, it's 16 guys in a pod but only two or three guys work out. And so, there's always time to go into these rec areas and really get a good sustained workout in. I do it mostly three, four, five times a week. You know, as a 52-year-old. So, I've been staying with that and that's part of the way I've been able to kind of, maintain my sanity man, because working out helps you get rid of those toxins through the sweat, and the stress from exertion, you know?
BRIAN: That’s a wise move, man. I mean, what about those guys who don't work out - what do they do? They just stay inside their cell all day, or what?
KEITH: I mean when you're in solitary confinement, you pretty much are thrown upon yourself, basically. There's no work assignment, there's nobody telling you you've got to do this and do that and so all the energy and drive has to come from yourself, it has to be self-generated. And a lot of these guys don't really know how to start their engine; they don't really know how to get that going you know because it’s an invisible force pushing you down, inertia. And it pushes you down because, you know, this planet is based on gravity and gravity pushes you down to the earth and these guys don't really know how to push against that. And a lot of them succumb and end up developing diabetes, hypertension and all those other things that kind of compound to put you on pills or whatever the case may be.
And they are quick to put you on pills here. Like that problem I was describing earlier about me taking those supplements and not really knowing why I was fatigued, why I was foggy. I went to see the doctor hoping that they, you know, after taking blood, would be able to tell me what was the problem and they told me that I was pre-diabetic. And the next time I came after that they were talking about putting me on medication and I said, “No, no, no, no I don't want your medication.” Because that's the beginning of the end, once you get on the medication; because of the side effects, right? And the buildup of toxicity in your body. I said, “No give me a chance,” and so I just went on a fast and figured it out on my own and it's good that I had the knowledge to do that. And so, through the process of elimination, got rid of the thing that was causing me trouble and now I'm fine, now. No heart medic- no diabetic medication or anything so I'm good now and that's the thing man. You gotta lookout for yourself in here.
BRIAN: How do you get information?
KEITH: My friends, family. I mean you send me information, Luana sends me information, Amy, all my friends, my family. You know, I talk to people about these things. And it's the strangest thing, you know: I'm on death row, I've been in prison for almost 31 years but a lot of my friends are doctors, are people who know about all these things. Professors, deans of universities and whatnot and so I've got access to a lot of top-notch information. And plus, I've got access to the internet through my friends and so they can google anything just like anybody else. But of course, it’s hit and miss; you try to check your systems against what somebody might be able to find on the internet and so, you know, it's trial by error basically. But I'm good I've got a good circle of people around me who provide me with information so I'm able to kind of stay on point in that way.
BRIAN: It’s difficult; speaking from experience – it is difficult to share information with you though, because the options are so limited. Like for instance, we just can't send you a 5-minute video of a – from – or even a copy of a, of a clip from YouTube because you're only allowed to get a 30 second video. So, imagine like if – even though you're not allowed to actually access videos yourself or access YouTube yourself, we would be able to share it with you taking a video of the video on our computer but if it's – given that like it's a 5-minute video that's going to be 10 videos, because they had to be broken up into 30 second intervals. Extremely inconvenient, you know. It's extremely inconvenient for you and...
KEITH: Well, that's the point! That's what I keep saying – if they don't want you to do something, they make it hard. And so that right there makes it hard for us to, kind of have these normal exchanges, in-depth exchanges. You've got 30 seconds to say everything you need to say and so that's not conducive to, kind of forming a human bond with people and that's the point.
BRIAN: I mean, there’s no FaceTime or – yeah. There’ ain’t none of that.
KEITH: You know if I had access to the same – mm hm, right. Theoretically they have these things called “video visits,” but they very seldom if ever work. You know, you sign on and you could see your family but you can't hear them or you can hear them but can't see them
BRIAN: And plus, you can only use your computer – you can't even use your phone for that, which I found out.
KEITH: ...right, right. So, you can't be out and about. So that's another inconvenience because you've got to schedule your whole day around this 30-minute window then and once you get into that window you know, all kinds of problems ensue as soon as you turn it on.
But that's what prison is, man. It's like a colossal inconvenience.
But the only thing that they know how to do with efficiency in here is take your money. They never have a problem with that. All that is done smoothly; they are proficient at that.
You know when I first came to prison, Brian, in 1989, your family could send you food boxes, clothes boxes – and when you came on visit, they could also bring home cooked meals to you on a visit. Now, everything's been monetized.
Now if you look at it, man – prisons are in excess of over 80 billion dollars a year, this prison system makes in America. Billions and billions of dollars is being pulled out of this place through phone calls, through everything you get. Amazon and they've got these private companies that cater to these prisons that they have contracts with that they, you know, get a kickback from. And these companies exploit us.
Anything that you buy – I've got a 13-inch color television that cost me damn near $250. I've got an old typewriter – you know, plastic typewriter that cost me $300. You know nobody even uses typewriters anymore but that's what they do – and they get that money from our families. And some prisons – not this prison because we took them to court based on usury –they were charging some guys in other places $15 for one local phone call home. A 15-minute call. Fifteen dollars. So, you're in prison...
PRISON ID MESSAGE
You’re in prison because you're poor and while you're in prison you're exploited because you're poor. And that's what Martin Luther King was saying, that, you know – or James Baldwin rather – was saying that it's expensive to be poor. It costs a lot of money when you're poor. Everything is double. You know, then you always hear about these movie stars, these celebrities – all they talk about is all the free stuff they get, you know what I mean? You know, everything is upside down, man.
BRIAN: That's right. When you're rich, man, you don't pay for anything. It’s ironic
KEITH: Right, you don't pay for anything yeah, yeah. And absurd, and absurd.
BRIAN: And you end up having to pay just to send an email.
KEITH: Right. So the people who don't need it get it and the people who need it don't get it. I’m talking about help. And they've been showing recently Brian, I've been seeing an uptick in shoplifting and all that. And they're showing these people on the news kind of disgracing them. But they're not showing you the stuff that these people are stealing – deodorant, baby wipes, diapers, formula – things that you need in order to live. I mean, you don't see anybody stealing designer jeans, designer shoes... they're stealing, you know, necessities.
Meanwhile, the people in Washington, DC, who these people have sent to Washington DC to speak on their behalf can't even come up with a stimulus package so they can have the things they need so they won't have to degrade themselves by becoming criminals, you know.
And so, it's just – everything is upside down, man. Everything is just – you know everything is upside down in this society we live in; it's real crazy.
BRIAN: No man, I thank you for taking us in a little bit because I – we talk and we have good times and we laugh about things and you’re so knowledgeable about so many things; people might get the false impression that it's easy for you to have access to this kind of information and it’s not. I mean, it takes a lot of work.
KEITH: It takes a lot of energy. It takes a lot of energy and a lot of knowledge on how to conserve your energy. You know, I was lucky, I met some older brothers when I came here and they kind of really just gave it to me from A to Z on how to survive this situation, because that's all it's about; and if you've got into your head that it's anything other than survival, then you are misunderstanding.
And yeah, to your point, man, I interact with my friends and my family and it's my job, man. You know, when I go on visits, I carry a handkerchief in my pocket all the time. Not for me, but for my visitors because – you know, people invariably start crying on visits. And so I just took – got in the habit of taking a handkerchief with me because, you know, otherwise you know, they're wiping their hands on their sleeve, wiping their tears with their sleeve, blowing their nose and other things, so, you know, I take that with me. Because it's a painful situation and so I've grown into, or kind of formed the habit of, trying to lighten the load – trying to be humorous, trying to be you know, charming and trying to be conversant, trying to be – trying to, you know, make it easy on my family because it's hard, this life that I'm living.
And sometimes you know, not all the time, not frequently, it comes through; it slips through the cracks you know, because I'm a human being and it's important that my family knows that.
I was just reading this piece by Khalil Gibran about friendship and he said, “Let your best be for your friends. They must know the ebb of your tide. Let them know your flood also...”
So you have to let people know – especially people who are in your inner circle – you gotta let them know that the pain that they assume you're going through, that, yeah, I'm going through those things. But I'm managing them, I’m doing my best to manage those things; and in that way, kind of control the damage that my being here inflicts on my loved ones because I want them to come here, because I need them to be in my life. Because that's how I'm surviving.
So that's another thing where, you know, I mean it's a give take. You know, sometimes, unfortunately it'll slip through and I need to lean on you today. You know what I mean, I need you to help console me today. But that’s what friendship is all about... right?
BRIAN: That is what it’s about.
PRISON AUTOMATIC DISCONNECT
BRIAN: Over the weekend, there was a huge uptick in support for you in change.org. The petition that we were trying to organize to send to Governor DeWine of Ohio jumped from 15,000 signatures to over 150,000 signatures in just two or three days. And the unfortunate aspect of that – while we're very happy that that has happened, the unfortunate aspect of it is that so much attention was brought to you because of the execution of Brandon Bernard. And... you know, I wanted to... when you heard about it I wanted to know your thoughts and how it affected you.
KEITH: I mean, as someone who is on death row myself, someone who has an execution date myself, whenever someone is executed, it always impacts you personally. Whenever a black man is murdered by the police or you see it on the news or whatever, it impacts you because I'm a black man. I'm on death row. I didn't even know about Brandon until several weeks ago, until his case reached the critical stage when Kim Kardashian and all the familiar faces started to show up. That's when they put it on the news and that's when it was brought to my attention.
It's unfortunate that this brother struggled for all those years and just the last 10 minutes of his life he was a blurb or a blip on people's radar, but that's how it is so I kind of already knew that it was a done deal, because he was relying on Donald Trump to kind of, you know, kind of pardon him. Now he pardoned quite a few of his friends. But I think it's safe to say that black men aren't people that he considers his friends. And so, I didn't hold out much hope for Brandon if I'm being honest.
But the next day I was hoping against hope that I would turn on the TV and they would say that he was pardoned, that his life was spared. But when I didn't see that I got angry about it. And I try not to get too far away from myself in one way or one direction or the other, man. I try to kind of stay within myself, try to contain and hold my own counsel, right? But this somehow, because of the election and the fact that black men didn't show out for Trump, show up for Trump and this being kind of like a vindictive message to black men – it kind of rubbed me in a real extreme way, you know?
And then, as you mentioned, we saw an uptick in signatures but we found out that it was directly related to the fact that this man was killed and so now I feel even worse, in a way. Because now I'm benefiting off of somebody's pain, off somebody's death. But then, you know, I had talked to my friends about it and it kind of gave me to see – and you were one of them – gave me to see that maybe this is Brandon’s way of, you know, kind of passing the baton. Because that's what I think we're doing in civil rights, that's what we're doing in social work, that's what we're doing when we come out and and take to the streets after George Floyd, we're trying to move our agenda forward. I mean it's a slow process and a painful process because people are being killed. People are being removed from this planet. And so, we have an obligation from my standpoint to do what we can to move it forward so that this won't happen again.
Now, I'm limited in what I can say and do because I'm on death row. But what I can do that Brandon can no longer do is speak so that's what I took it as my obligation to do. That's the point of me calling in and speaking to you right now. What I can do that they can no longer do is fight and so I'm trying to fight in the best way that I know how and it's an unfortunate thing because...
PRISON ID MESSAGE
Everybody was excited about the uptick in signatures and – you know, of course I was too. I mean you get so caught up in it and it's like it's 50,000 is 70,000 it’s – now it's 90,000 now it's 150,000 and you can be feeling like you're in Las Vegas and like you're playing the slot machines, right? And everybody is caught up in that and you have to stop and say, “Hold it, what does this mean?”
See, because I'm a firm believer, Brian, that this system is still the same system that we had in the 1700s and back in the 1700s, slaves could buy their freedom. I’m convinced that slaves can still buy their freedom in this country
BRIAN: I agree...
KEITH: ... because this country at the end of the day functions under the system of capitalism.
BRIAN: It runs on money. That’s right.
KEITH: Everything is a commodity – it runs on money!
BRIAN: And freedom is a commodity.
KEITH: Freedom is a commodity. And people – behind everything that you see that is celebrated, there's something going on behind the scenes to monetize it because that's how capitalism works.
And so we find out through change.org, although we're grateful as you said, we understand that the donations that people were contributing weren't going to my legal defense fund they were going to change.org to disseminate the petitions to other websites and whatnot. That's all well and fine.
But if people were contributing thinking they were helping me get out, it didn't quite pan out that way. We’ve made adjustments to try to make the most out of the opportunity and hopefully people who might be listening to this, they might go to my website – You know, because 160,000 people – if people just give $2 that's over $300,000. That could buy my freedom.
We talk about this campaign that we've been engaged in, that you've been a part of, that so many people have been a part of for years. And all of a sudden it takes just one thing and it will catch on like fire, but you have to be prepared to take advantage of the opportunity.
You know, Shakespeare said, “There's a tide in the affairs of men. Which, taken at the flood, leads on to prosperity.” But Martin Luther King countered that by saying, yeah, it's a tide but it doesn't stay at flood; it ebbs. In other words, the door closes.
And so people have to walk through, slip through the crack when the crack is presented. And we're trying to do that, but it's hard, man, because we're always behind the eight ball.
But yeah, it's tragic that – Brandon, you know... but I'm in the same line, brother. And it's a part of me – a large part, you know, that's frightened by the idea that I'm dealing with this unreal situation because now they're talking about instead of lethal injection, they might go back to the firing squad, they might go back to the gas chamber, they might go back to the – you know this thing –
How about just going back to justice? How about finding your humanity? How about being the Christians that you say you are? Where is the forgiveness at? Where is the redemption at? Why aren't those viable options; why aren't those real options? I’m talking about a country that was built on mistake after mistake after mistake; I won't even call them mistakes; they wiped out the Indians. They wiped them totally out! That can't be considered a mistake and yet they were forgiven. They kept our ancestors enslaved for 250 years and they were forgiven. But when it comes to forgiving other people for their wrongs...
ONE MINUTE WARNING
BRIAN: Right...
KEITH: ...yeah, yeah, yeah, man... you know what I mean?
You know? And so everything that other people do – everybody is held to the highest standard but them. And they are the ones who are creating the standards: "Thou shall not kill.” They came up with that. And yet you look around you check the records, that's all they do is kill people. Not just here but all over the world. But you know, obviously they don't believe in this stuff that they are preaching.
And Malcolm X had a good point. He said you need to practice what you preach or preach what you practice. And our job is to make sure that they don't have it both ways. You know, if you're a Christian then be a Christian.
You know being a Christian is following the example of Jesus Christ.
You know Jesus Christ wasn't a Christian, he was a standard bearer. “This is how you're supposed to live your life.” OK so the followers of that demonstration you or that example call themselves Christians. OK, Jesus wasn't about this. Jesus was executed, he wasn't executing people!
And so that's the problem I have with this system. There's too much hypocrisy built into it.
PRISON AUTOMATIC DISCONNECT
And thanks to my co-host, Keith Lamar.
We continue with the second half of this conversation in the season one finale that will close out a year that very few of us will regret seeing coming to an end. We've made it available immediately so that you can just navigate to it now.
Thanks so much for your support.
Stick around for Part 2.
You can find out more about Keith LaMar at keithlamar.org and @justiceforkeithlamar on Facebook and Instagram.
Support his struggle and learn about his case by buying his book, Condemned, on Amazon.
I'm Brian Jackson and this has been Pieces of a Man.