King's Banner Podcast
Welcome to King's Banner Podcast. We got tired of the same ole answers when we started looking for help when it came to our walks with God. So together we go deeper than most would on topics that most people have heard or were taught but never fully understood. It is our way of simplifying concepts that we may have over complicated throughout our lives. Bringing theology and life experience into each episode. It is our hope and desire to help you in your Christian walk.
King's Banner Podcast
If Christianity Isn't Weird Your're Not Doing It Right (Repost)
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Have you ever felt like embracing your faith made you stick out like a sore thumb in the eyes of the world? That's where we pick up the conversation as Justin and I return from our break to share the sometimes hilarious, often enlightening journey of living a peculiarly Christian life. From the sudden, outward changes that hit you when faith takes root, to the internal tug-of-war as you grow closer to Christ, we share personal stories that will have you nodding in agreement and maybe even laughing at the relatable absurdity of it all.
Christian Living Transformation and Peculiarity
Speaker 1What's up guys ? Welcome back to Navigate . I'm with Justin .
Speaker 2I am how are you , man Doing ? Good bro , yeah , excited to be back . It's been a while , it's been a break .
Speaker 1It's my fault really . It is always Like I'm barred with the plague .
Speaker 2He's alive though .
Speaker 1And then we bought a car that's possessed by the devil himself , I'm convinced , and I moved , which made things a little bit more . Epic , you did it's been good though you did .
Speaker 2I gotta tell you guys , there's been like an outpouring of people like hey , where's my podcast ? And it's kind of it's kind of it's kind of awesome how many people actually listen to this on a consistent basis . So y'all are legit .
Speaker 1I'm glad they told you that I don't hear it until you tell me it's like damn , we got to a podcast . I know they're blasting it Everybody .
Speaker 2TJ put some like meme on Facebook with Mr Bean .
Speaker 1I was like , oh it's , it's real now .
Speaker 2We're being Tim we're being attacked .
Speaker 1People are paying attention . That's great . That's great .
Speaker 2Thank you , that's good , so what we got , bro ? What do you ? What do you this ?
Speaker 1is gonna be a kind of a fun one , I think Okay , we'll see , I've been a Christian for eight years , something like that .
Speaker 2Nice , how long have you been ?
Speaker 1saved Because I have it happen the same time .
Speaker 2I mean probably 10 to 11 years . So 10 years , yeah , yeah , 10 years now .
Speaker 1And there's one truth well , several truths that I kind of make up to help me with my walk of Christ , okay , and one of them is this If it's not weird , you're not doing it right Christianity .
Speaker 2All right .
Speaker 1If it's not weird you're not doing it right , there is there is definitely something real about that .
Speaker 2I'm trying to think . Peter calls , calls us a peculiar people . Yeah , yeah , I mean yeah , you are a chosen generation of royal priesthood , a holy nation , a peculiar people .
Speaker 1A peculiar people .
Speaker 2Well , I love that's the , that's the KJV , so take that or leave it , but I I like the translation because it's like , yeah , we're . I mean we're pretty weird , we're pretty , but I think , I think we're acting sanely .
Speaker 1Yes , you know what I mean .
Speaker 2Like in a weird way , like it's like when you acknowledge what's actually happening . It's like yeah , I mean I'm insane because I'm sane . You know , when you , when you stop , when you stop living like the world is living , I mean , then they look at you like you're the crazy person . You're like nah , man , I'm just alive . I don't know what's wrong with you .
Speaker 1Yeah , for real , that's something that was weird for you . Yes , that people were like the heck . Oh my gosh .
Speaker 2Where to where to start ? I mean , I lost a lot of friends . So , for those of you don't know , I was in a band for a for a little while .
Speaker 1I lost , I lost all my band buddies .
Speaker 2Immediately they're like what's wrong with you ? You won't , there is an awkward relationships and there and all my band buddies left and then , yeah , I mean I just stopped hanging out with certain people . One of the things that was immediately different was just what I listened to on a daily basis , what I was talking to people about nonstop , where I spent my time . I mean I think I brought it up on here before , but my wife thought I was just straight possessed . Yeah , dude , she's like what is wrong with you ? I was speaking in tongues and she's like no , you got a demon . It was a . It was a super weird time . I mean I spent my time differently . My appetite's changed . I wanted all kinds of different stuff . I mean I'll never forget I got like baptized and the next day I went in and my co-worker at the time , like the person that I ran things alongside of , was like what's different about you ?
Speaker 2I remember that . Why don't you ask me more ?
Speaker 1you know and I was .
Speaker 2It was awesome because in some sense , nothing changed , but in another sense , they could smell the Jesus on you and I think it irritated people at first because they thought it was going to go away and then it just never went away and then suddenly started asking questions and then like an environment , like a kitchen , tim , where it's like it's a really gritty , noisy , angry environment , fast paced , everyone's in the way . It's like turn into this place where people were trying to take their breaks . Because it was such a peaceful environment where people were kind and chill and wanted to talk to you and wanted to help you get through stuff . I stopped throwing pans across the kitchen , swearing at people , and I started pastoring people and asking them how their families were doing . I mean , it was like I heard Eric when taxes saved this way one time . Tim and I was like that's the best description ever . He said it's like going to bed single and waking up married , like it's like your whole life is totally different overnight , overnight .
Speaker 2So like when we talk about being a peculiar people , well , what was peculiar is that I was dead . You know , I didn't mean or you know that's a religious way to say it . I was a totally different person and I woke up and it was like everything that I could have never been on my own suddenly just happened . And no , I didn't find an MLM and some new you know vitamins or whatever to put you on . It was legitimate death to life transformation . I didn't mean everything was perfect all at once . I mean it was still super messy and I was still learning how to do you know walk with Christ and but it was wild . I remember just being like in the walk in and feeling like God telling me I just want you to kneel and pray right now . And people like walking in and I'm just praying on my knees in the walk and I'm just praying God and do what you need . People like cool , cool chef , okay , you know .
Speaker 1Is that kind of a transformation ? I mean , that doesn't happen with everybody , does it ?
Speaker 2I don't know . I think change happens with everybody . I know that . Alright , okay , fair question . Not everybody is immediately like oh , I just stopped doing all the things I was doing and everything immediately got better . I'm not saying I stopped doing all the stuff I was doing or immediately things got better . I am saying I immediately stopped doing some things and I immediately started doing others . And then there's a lot of stuff that was a slower transfer and that process down the line you know what I mean . You slowly , you know you get more cleaned up and more cleaned up , because the reality is you don't even know how bad you are .
Speaker 1That's very true .
Speaker 2You got to go through that season where you you know , where you think you're better than everyone for a little while , because you found Jesus and they haven't , and they humble you a little bit .
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean , god does it , it's not even them . Well , it's that doing part I kind of reason why I brought this up , man , because I feel like what this saying ? Like I said , I just made this up but it's been true for me . If it feels weird , I tend not to do it .
Speaker 2Okay , well , like to explain that to me .
Speaker 1So to take us back to our early days right yeah , we were outside of Bible study and you were like 10 . The Bible says we need to lay hands , like try to pray . So let's do that right now .
Speaker 2Yeah , I thought that was the weirdest thing in the world . Yeah , no , I don't have no problem with it . I am not holding hands with you , you weirdo . I am not greeting you with a kiss .
Speaker 1I am not .
Speaker 2Casual . I mean sorry , throwing it out there . I got a bunch of inappropriate jokes
Seeing the Light, Embracing Change
Speaker 2. I'm going to leave those out .
Speaker 1It was that moment I'm like , okay , this was weird , but it was . I saw the benefit of it , right . Yeah , but the more I started doing it , the less weird it became . Yeah , but I'm thinking , how many times has things felt weird , like in worship and church and Bible studies and whatever groups . I'm like I don't want to do that . I don't know that guy that well , mm-hmm , like what it talked myself out of it basically , yeah , I mean I don't really know if this is , this is weird .
Speaker 2Yeah , this is weird . Imagine a dead body coming back to life . It probably feel pretty weird . You're like I'm not supposed to be moving my arm right now For the dead guy For the dead guy . Yeah , well , I mean for everybody else too , right ?
Speaker 1in some sense You're bringing it .
Speaker 2Especially at the funeral . You know that's the worst . Now I just mean , look , I do think there's a sense in which watching something that used to be totally uncomfortable to you and foreign to you becomes something that you actually have a proclivity towards . That's really cool . That's a good thing . I think things like that , you know that , are like great , like basic Christian rhythms . Take taking something like communion in the past is something that doesn't really matter . You know , like whatever on the student juice and the cracker and say the words , you're gonna say the same words every single time and then at some point you take it so much more seriously .
Speaker 2At some point you represent that you understand what it actually represents . Yeah , you understand what's actually happening and I think that's because you start seeing , you know before it's like when you , when you're dead , when you're covered in sin , when you're blinded I mean it talks about you know it's a sin blinding the eyes of unbelievers , like there is a real blindness that that exists for people that don't know Jesus . They can't see . They can't see . And , what's worse , that , if I , christians oftentimes are trying to dim the lights for them because they don't want the light to hurt their eyes , I think I'm and turn the lights on like let them , let them know . But there's , there are different things that happen with . You begin to see that when the lights are on man , you see your own sin , you see your own mess , you see the problems that are actually going on and you start to see the cross in a whole different way . We're just transforms the way that you perceive life and what's going on around you . It just , it just does , and that doesn't mean things are less messy . It means you can see how messy they actually are and that's why you need it , people that don't care about things like communions , because they don't think they're that bad or that Jesus is that good , because they don't see it . They're living in the dark , right , I mean , that's all you know . Bob talks about this all the time . Right , men love darkness rather than light , because their day , their deeds , were evil . They didn't want to do that . I mean , the best part of that is he's talking to Nicodemus in the middle of the night , the guy who meets him in the middle of the night to have a conversation with him . Jesus is like yeah , there's people that don't like the dark because they don't want their deeds to be exposed . Wink , wink , nudge , nudge . Talking to you , dummy , right , and I can't tell you how many times God's done that in my life . Or he was talking to me about something you know , or I'm preaching a message and I realized , oh my gosh , this whole message is for me , not even for them . He's like I am really dumb . Yeah , I mean , god does that stuff all the time . But yeah , I mean , I do , I think it's .
Speaker 2There's something strange when you have a new nature and really that's that's what we're talking about when we talk about regeneration is the old nature . The person that you used to be is is dead and you still have this same body right . You still got the same brain . You still got the same you know shell that you're connected with although I don't like that language because it could be like you know plate , like neo-plateness , a little bit in an unhelpful way but you having new nature . Why ? Because God has given you a new nature .
Speaker 2You're invited into a new family with a new nature , a new spirit , a new heart , and when that happens , you're kind of in a place where it's like something that is now Unnatural or used to be unnatural to me . I have a desire to do , but in a way where I feel uncomfortable doing it because it doesn't seem consistent with who I used to be . That's a , that's a conundrum . The . The mistake that people make is thinking that your dead self is still alive . No , it's not . You're just not used to your new self yet and it's gonna take some time .
Speaker 1But the more you a problem still though .
Speaker 2Well , I just think the more you neuter , the the new nature that you have , the more you , you know , push that down or act like well , no , I'm supposed to act like I'm dead . Still will be weird for a living person to act dead and eventually , if you act dead long enough as a living person , you are dead , right . And I just think there's a world of Christians out there who are bitter and jaded and got a foot in the world and a foot in the kingdom and no , nobody's faster to throw a cold bucket of water on you , right , do you like your own fire for Jesus ? You love the Lord . And then some Christian who's been in the church for 20 years is like you need to slow down , man , you have a lot to learn . You , I don't . You are way too excited about this . You know you're not under enough authority . You're the . I'm just to just shut up .
Speaker 2Just look , if you see somebody who is just fired up for the kingdom and loves the Lord , you need to encourage them , you need to build them up and you need to get
Recommitment to Faith and Avoiding Complacency
Speaker 2behind them . And what I found is that a lot of Christians , when they see somebody with a lot of zeal and excitement for the kingdom want to beat that person down . Well , that person is super weird and I don't , yeah , and I don't think that's a , that's a good desire . You know , I mean , that's a very wicked thing in us that gets mad when somebody else is experiencing something that we want to experience or feel like we should be . We'll look at him . They're like why are you so comfortable being weird ? It's like , well , I'm still guilty of that .
Speaker 1So look at me .
Speaker 2You're too comfortable being normal .
Speaker 1Yeah , there you go , you know . But I've done that . I've looked at people like just you wait . But I'm thinking about it Like how ?
Speaker 2many people are like man . I wish I could engage in worship . I wish I could . I wish I could put my hands up , I wish I could sing like that . I wish I didn't care so much what other people thought , yeah , right , yeah . And the reality is is you are the only one keeping yourself from living the way that God is actually calling you to live . That's a real desire that you have . Or , man , I wish that I could just tell my wife how I really feel . I wish I could just share with my brother the actual gospel and what God's been doing inside of me and you begin to be okay , living the way that God did not intend you to live .
Speaker 2It's the equivalent of Peter when he goes back to fishing . You know it's like Jesus goes into the grave and they're like I guess we'll just go back to normal then and I think oftentimes in Christian people's lives that that can be something that kills them . You know it's like they go through this difficult process and they're like God , where are you ? And then it's like I guess I'll just I'll be saved . Now I know Jesus , but I'll go back to what I was doing and just kind of I know this is part of me now , but really , you know I'm back to where I was , so might as well just live the way that I was before and it's like , well , no , it's actually . You're actually on the other side of the resurrection , but you're not taking seriously what Jesus said , done because you think your experience , you know , should speak louder than that or something . It's a weird deal .
Speaker 1I would say what sucks , too , is when people who do that because I've done it is you go back to fishing , like you said you know , using Peter , and then you live there again for so long you're like I know , like I miss what it was like with Jesus .
Speaker 2Yeah , but then you don't know how to get back . You don't know how to get back oh it's one of my favorite stories in the whole Bible , Tim , because in that passage I think it's John , chapter 20 that we're talking about Jesus is making breakfast on the beach . You know what I mean ? Which is the coolest thing ever . Jesus is like hey , I got you a fish sandwich , Best you ever had . Get over here this is after the resurrection .
Speaker 2Yeah after the resurrection because he goes back to fishing , right , yeah , yeah , like you idiot , by the way , jesus calls Peter and he goes back to fishing after he calls him and then he calls him out of fishing again . Right , I think it's Luke , chapter five . When he calls him out again , he goes back to fishing and he shows up at his boat and he's like , hey , throw the net on the other side . And he's like , ah , dang it , he is God , I'm sorry . It's like , hey , follow me , right . And then you have this beautiful picture of Peter when he sees Jesus in John , chapter 20 . He doesn't start rowing the boat that direction when somebody tells him that's Jesus , he throws himself in the water like , takes off his outer garment and throws himself in the water to get to Jesus as soon as he can , and I always like to think about that as like a baptism . Again , that's cool .
Speaker 2You know what I mean . It's like the second time where it's like , god , I went back , I haven't been living the way that I was supposed to be living , I haven't been doing all the things that I was , you know , hoping to do in this particular situation and I am rededicating myself , I'm throwing myself back in the water to get to you , because I found myself back in the place that you called me out of . Yeah , I found myself back in that place and look , I will . I will grant you that there is not a theological reasoning in Scripture for you to get baptized again . I do think sometimes there's a methodological and psychological reasoning why you would want to do that , because baptism is supposed to be kind of this cleansing process that you go through . You know what I mean . And Jesus makes the point hey , once you've been cleaned , you only need to clean your feet off . You know what I mean . Like I've cleaned you , you're good . Once you get baptized in Christ , you're good . But I think there is this thing for us and I would appeal to , like the Old Testament , where they would get cleansed , they would go through this to the labor every time and wash their hands before they would go into the temple because you wanted to have sacrifice made for your sins and then clean yourself before you would walk into the presence of God .
Speaker 2And I think sometimes before we , if we find ourselves in a place where we've been living contrary to what God has called us to , there could be a good reason to go back and get baptized again and kind of rededicate yourself and say you know , I know I'm saved . But if I'm being honest , I've been fishing out on the lake and Jesus has been on the shore and it's time I joined him there , it's time I met him there . Is this the same thing for me with , like , renewing your vows ? Are you not married ? No , we've been married . Well , what's the point of renewing your vows ? It's me reminding my heart that this is what I've chosen in front of everybody over a long period of time , and making sure that I am keeping myself and everyone else accountable to this covenant that I made before God , and every opportunity I have to remind people of my solemn bow and what I'm doing . That's a great thing to do and can be incredibly healing for marriages that have gone through difficulty . I mean , I highly recommend it . So I think at our Christian walk there's similar stuff like that and things like communion are supposed to remind our hearts , those things it's supposed to help us draw near . You know , baptism is the same thing it's supposed to help us draw near . In that sense , god gives us stuff that are patterns in our life that are to remind us who he is and who we are , because we're very susceptible to living like the world . You know , it's like everybody knows the guy and maybe you've been the guy or the girl or whatever who's like . I used to go to church a lot , and that's how it was when I first got saved . And now I go once a month and really I find boating trips you know , it's a little more life giving or I go hiking . That's where I meet with God . And what they're saying is I've really learned to enjoy the lake a lot . I've really learned to enjoy fishing . It really is good .
Speaker 2Did God call me out of this then ? Did he want me to do that stuff ? Then ? Yes , but now I'm at peace with it , I'm in a better place . And what he's saying , you know , I spent three years with Jesus and after they killed him , I'm at peace with it . Now I'm okay . I'm like no , you idiot , like don't go back to things that God called you out of . Don't do that , don't do that in your life . Why ? Because if you do that , what you're saying is I know I'm alive , but I choose to live like a dead person . And dead people don't affect change . They don't , I mean , outside of decomposition . You know what I mean . They're not changing anything , they're not helping anything . And dead people don't give life to anything else either , except for maybe weird microbes and germs and things or whatever .
Speaker 1You know whatever happens in that disgusting process . What's a good way , then , to get back .
Speaker 2Well , I mean , I think a lot of it depends on the person . One of my favorite things to do , tim , is to go back to places where God met me . I like to go back to , like when I start to sense my heart growing stale or I feel like I found myself back out on the lake , you know is to go back to places where God has met me in the past and go back and spend time in prayer and ask Him what have I been doing wrong ? What do I need to change ? Or just be blunt , god , how did I end up here ? How did I end up here with this callus on my heart ? How did I end up in this place where I'm going through the motions Again ? I promised you I was never going to do this . God , how come the Bible is not meaningful to me anymore ? How come prayer is not meaningful to me anymore ? I don't want to live like this anymore .
Speaker 2And man so good to do that . I mean , look , you would do that in your marriage . Hopefully , if crap got bad , you would have those moments where you can actually be honest and talk about it and listen . As long as you're pretending that everything's fine , nothing's getting better for you . I tell you right now and it's the same thing with God God is never not extending His hand to you . We are just dense and we're stupid sometimes and , to be blunt , tim , oftentimes I think the reason we go through a lot of crap in our life is because God loves us too much to let us go through the motions , and so he puts stuff in our life that's frustrating to keep our eyes in a place where they were actually fixed on Him . If you find yourself frustrated and prone to wander and you're mad at God because you're constantly going through difficult situations , it might be worth asking yourself the question if I had all the things that I wanted , would I still go to God ? And if you're the person who's bitter and frustrated by all that stuff , I think my answer for you would be probably not , because what you're displaying to me is that you already don't really like God that much and you're irritated that he's not giving you your way . Fun fact , christian , your way is not the right way . In fact , that's the kind of the whole point .
Speaker 2Jesus is like hey , how about you come and die ? How about you that thing you're doing ? How about you stop doing that anymore ? How about you ? Let me drive . How about you ? Let me call the shots ? And we're like , yeah , great , thanks , lord , can't wait . And then we get saved and we're like I'll give my life to you . And then God's like cool , I'm gonna go this way . And you're like , hmm , lord , do you even love me ? Do you even care ? Do you even care ? Right , and I know I'm being blunt , like I'm being brash about it , but it really is that . It really is that it's this process of saying I'm willing to give you and I trust you and I know you love me , I know if you care for me , I know you have my best in mind . And at the same time , he starts doing stuff and you're like I don't understand what's happening .
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean Well , do you think that's a real fear people have ? Though ? It's like , all right , I'll give you everything , God , but I'm afraid of where you're going to take me .
Speaker 2I'm afraid what's going to do ?
Speaker 1to my kids is going to do my wife my job , you know .
Speaker 2So I had a prayer , I was leading a time of prayer during our 21 days of fasting and all that stuff to me , and I actually think I posted this on our podcast page which , by the way , you should follow if you're not totally sure . But I said this Satan can't take anything from you that you've already given to God . Satan can't take anything from you that you've already given God , and what I mean by that is he can't Take something out of your life if you've already entrusted God with it . There isn't fear anymore when you know it already belongs to him . This is why Job's able to say the Lord gives and the Lord takes away . Blessed be the name of the Lord . What's his point ? It's not mine . My life is not my own . I've been bought with a price my kids . They don't belong to me . I'm a steward , I shepherd , I care for them and , man , they have been a blessing in my life and all of it has been God's mercy and goodness and they're his . So Satan can't take something from me if I've already given it to God , because I know God is in control and he owns it .
Speaker 2Tim , I gotta tell you right now I Can spend an absurd amount of time worrying about my kids and their hearts and my hope for their future . And , lord , I hope you know that my daughter loves you and is healthy and happy and has what she needs , and I can kill myself and live in fear and frustration trying to make those things work , or I Can trust God and do what he asked me to do , because it don't own it . So Satan can really only take things from you , tim , that you haven't given to God Because you've been holding on to it too tightly , and now he has a place to work . But if God owns you and he owns what you have , then you can stop living from a place of fear and instead live from a place of joy , because none of this is mine and I don't deserve it . My king has given it to me for whatever time and whatever amount , and I get to enjoy that and I praise him for it . That's , that's a great
Taking Responsibility and Trusting in God
Speaker 2place to live .
Speaker 2Highly recommend that if you can get there and sometimes that's a battle because you'll Hold on with your heart to things that you shouldn't , and sometimes it's a great joy to be able to give things to him that you realize . Oh , I've been carrying this like a weight and it's supposed to be a gift . You know it's like how did I get to a place where God gave me a good thing and it's become a burden ? Well , you started trying to take it from God when he said I've already given it to you , you don't have to carry it , I will carry it for you . Like it's yours , let me carry it .
Speaker 1That's what it's supposed to look like but you still have some Responsibility towards that right . Heck yeah .
Speaker 2I mean , it's still a rain for a better marriage .
Speaker 1How am I asking God to come through on something that it technically is what I should be of doing ?
Speaker 2Yeah , just just consider that , that you don't have a responsibility for the outcome . Okay , so you can have Tim , there's , there's events and then there's responses , and those events plus responses equal a particular outcome . You cannot change an event from happening in your life , whether it's this particular argument or this particular job situation or whatever . You can't actually change those things . What you do have the ability to do is take care of how you respond to those things , and now you respond to that particular event Does in fact change the outcome of what's going to happen , but doesn't change the .
Speaker 1So this is my point .
Speaker 2That's what's here's what I'm saying if God owns the event , then my outcome is just what he's asked me to do and I'm not responsible for what happens after that . Okay , but how I act through whatever the situation is , I am responsible for so . So here's okay . So here's my point how I act . Knowing that God owns my kids changes the way that I respond . Okay , if I am responsible for making sure that my kid loves Jesus , I'm going to kill them on accident . I'm going to , I'm going to bury them in in the Word of God , I'm gonna lock them in their freaking rooms and I'm gonna play veggie tails on repeat and you can't leave because there's sin out there and you could get affected by this and you could get it . You know what I'm saying , but they're not mine . It's not mine to worry about that .
Speaker 2That's fear of Me trying to control something that I know I can't control . So then I'm trying to hold it and I'm trying to make something happen and force it , instead of saying , no , god owns that , he holds that . What does he asked me to do ? Take care of them , respond the way that I'm supposed to . I can't control them , but I can raise them up in the mid wisdom and admonition of the Lord . I can do that . I can praise the Lord great . Now it's something that I get to do and I get to see it as a gift , not as a burden , where I'm Shouldering the responsibility , ultimately , of this person's soul . Okay , and look , I have a responsibility to their soul , but not as the one that is in charge of the outcome , but how I respond to the events that are happening . That's cool . I like that .
Speaker 1So like with marriage too , sometimes we kind of try to take out control too .
Speaker 2Oh man , yeah , try to get your spouse to do anything . See how that works for you . Good night .
Speaker 1I just want you to think like me all the time .
Speaker 2I Do this thing to this date him , and I had my my pastor tell me he's like I , still a young marriage . I see , I thought about like yeah , I still tell my life sometimes what we got to be places 15 minutes earlier than we actually do , because I know we're gonna be 15 minutes late and it seems like every time I do that we're 30 minutes late . Yeah , we're still 15 minutes late . I'm like , yeah , I'm like maybe , maybe if I just said , hey , this is when we need to be there , maybe by some act of God , case in point , we would actually get there on time . I don't know , I don't know .
Speaker 1I'm not dog , listen , I have my wife does an insane amount .
Speaker 2I'm only saying this cuz she's gonna listen to this episode . I'm confident and I need to , and then to cover my tracks here .
Speaker 1So my wife's terrible about this too . She knows it . There's nothing new , but once told her the same thing , instead of 15 minutes , I won an hour . Yeah , so tired of being late , and this was the one time she was actually on time .
Speaker 2You know this is awkward oh we got lost halfway through .
Speaker 1Make up 60 minutes .
Speaker 2Have you tried to fudge it , like two hours early and see there's some Algorithm . What's happening that day , you know , and if Leo is like you To crack , I don't know what show is on it . What .
Speaker 1I don't understand it . Some codex , yeah .
Speaker 2Look little off track here , but Look at it , I think , tim , when we're talking about , like , living a weird life , part of why Christians are weird is because we stop being so afraid and stop being in a place where we have to control everything , and that frees us up to act the way that we actually want to act , which is I'm gonna pray , I'm gonna lay hands on you , I'm gonna cover you , I'm gonna tell you the truth , I'm gonna . I'm gonna fight for the stuff that actually matters . Why ? Because I don't care what you think about me anymore . I'm not responsible for the outcome , but I am responsible for how I act in this particular situation . And so many people live like they're dead because they're more interested in Letting the event define them then letting god define the outcome . You know , after their responsibility , what they do in that particular situation . And if you're in a place right now You're like man I've been bored , I've been , I've been stale , I've been this , I've been that I'd be like man Then then stop acting like you're dead . Go to the wellspring of life . Go back to those places where god met you originally . Start turning those songs on that you listen to At that time . Just start walking back into the rhythms that you had when you were where you needed to be and just by proximity , probably stuff starts getting better , like if if you're in a bad marriage , I would tell you , hey , why don't you start dating your wife ? Yeah , once you talk to her as much as you did when you guys first start , just start calling her , you start having those conversations . Once you buy flowers like you did before , once you go to that place that you guys haven't been to in a while , all that stuff , why ? Because the feelings don't come first , they come after . You establish those good rhythms and then it helps perpetuate them . But if you stop doing those things and then you wonder why the river is run dry , it's because you changed . You know what I mean . It's because you stop doing those things .
Speaker 2I'm not saying every scenarios like that . Sometimes other people change and there's circumstances where again you can't . You can't change the event that happened , but you can change how you respond to it and I always want to tell people go back to those rhythms and maybe you do need to be baptized again . Maybe you need to take seriously , like , if you're scared of being baptized again , maybe it's you saying I'm more comfortable out on the lake than I am standing next to Jesus . I'm more comfortable acting like I'm saved Than actually being close to God .
Speaker 2And I'll just tell you right now , it is not better to look like a Christian than actually love Jesus . All right , I don't know who that's for today , but if you were listening to this podcast and you feel content because other people think you're solid with Jesus , but if you're honest , you're stale on the inside . You've got to kill that right now . It is not worth it . It is not worth it to live in a dead marriage and act like everything's fine . And it is 10 times worse to live in a dead relationship with Jesus and act like you're a Christian , to be be okay with that . It's not better .
Speaker 2You could be a pastor . You could be in ministry right now Serving people and telling people about Jesus , and if you're going through the motions and don't actually love Jesus , then it is absolutely worthless . You got it . You got a minister from a place of where it's real . And if you have been Peter out on the boat , I'm telling you right now throw yourself in the water , get clean , start fresh , run to Jesus , get your crap together so that you would actually live from a place of vibrance because he's making breakfast on the beach . Get there , it's gonna be awesome . Probably some , probably some mimosas or something too , something tasty , come on , I'm just saying it's beach sandwiches . You gotta be , gotta be something . What are they called those ? What are they called those ? Like haystack things , tim the haystack , haystack the pilappas . You know I'm talking about . No , you know , like that umbrella with like the straw onto . You know I'm talking about like on a beach .
Speaker 1No , well , honestly , I don't do the beach , I think it's called a pilapa I think it is . It was just kind of a fun name .
Speaker 2That's fun . But , yeah , if you're on the beach , you're under a pilapa . Jesus is probably serving , like mahi mahi , fish sandwiches . You know , under a pilapa with a mimosa for you . I think it's time for a vacation for me . I think that's .
Speaker 1I don't think the picture . I'm like , yeah , lord , that's what I'm hoping for , that's , that's it . I need a day off , but that's a kidding . Cheers .
Speaker 2I'm dreaming of the beach , like one day . We talking about fishing and throwing myself in the lake . I'm like you know what , but the ocean would be better .
Speaker 1I did want to bring something else up , man about , yeah , and just being uncomfortable . Yeah , it's not comfortable .
Speaker 2No , it's , it's not comfortable .
Speaker 1Yeah . My problem , though , is when you're in a situation that's consistently uncomfortable . Yeah , eventually , I don't want to be there anymore . So how do you overcome that ?
Speaker 2Well , depends what you mean like okay , tim , holding your baby for the first time is uncomfortable .
Speaker 1Most of it because I don't want to drop her . Yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's weird . It's like it's the heaviest , lightest thing you've ever touched in your life . Yeah , right , you're like this is mine , I got to hold it Also . Ugh their head and like how do I situate this ? And , oh , they're crying . Okay , okay , and it's uncomfortable until you get to a place where it's the most comfortable thing . Yeah , sure , and I really feel like that's how it is with most uncomfortable things . Especially , what we're talking about is growth . Growth is uncomfortable . Living is uncomfortable until it's comfortable again .
Discomfort in Christian Growth
Speaker 2If you ever read the book the Great Divorce I brought it up before but the grass doesn't move these people who are shades they're basically ghosts who are living a half life are brought to this place , the eternal state , where everything is solid and immovable and to walk on the grass feels like walking on nails , because the grass doesn't move . They do and it's so painful . He says walking around was so painful Walking on this grass and you tried to pick up a leaf and you couldn't budge it . It was the heaviest thing you'd ever touched . And if you walked on the river , eventually it would bowl you over because your feet didn't go down into the water . It would just all the waves and everything kicked your feet up and you were like hurled down , basically a river of rocks , and it's a wonderful picture of how things are so solid . And in the story , these angels would come and tell them hey , I know it hurts , I know it hurts , but if you keep walking , eventually it's . You're actually going to become part of the living thing and no longer part of the dead thing that is affected by it . Like the whole picture is he's saying hey , eventually your feet will begin to become real and then you'll be able to step on the grass and it'll be grass instead of the needles that it is right now .
Speaker 2And the point that he was making is hey , if you're living a half life , the light is painful to you . If you're living in death , truth is painful to you . Life is painful to you because you haven't experienced it . It's like a baby learning that walking is a good thing , eating is a good thing , laughing is a good thing . You know all these different things that they can experience . You ever had a kid , a young baby , you know what I mean and there's a big gust of wind . They'll almost start crying because they're like what is that ? You're like no , it's just fall man , it's awesome . All right , you're going around , it's cool , don't panic . We're like that and God's beckoning us and saying hey , I know it's painful right now , but actually this is going to make you the kind of person who has more joy and is part of something more solid and more real . And right now you're avoiding the difficult things because you're more comfortable , but that's actually keeping you in the half life that you don't want to be in .
Speaker 2Being uncomfortable is the best thing that can happen to you in the Christian faith . If you're walking in obedience to God , because what it is is it's a promise from God that you're doing something that matters . You're becoming who you were always meant to be , and the promise is this you're always drawing more near to God , right , and so eventually you're going to be able to put your feet in the creek and you're going to experience that ice , cold , wonderful sensation of water running over your feet , as opposed to being bowled down this street . But sometimes you got to walk on the grass long enough to get to a place where you can experience that , and that's the same with reading your Bible and praying and going to church , and a lot of people like I tried that . It really hurt me . Yeah , go back , do it again . I went to the gym once . It was the worst experience ever , didn't work at all . Right , right , right , go again . You know it's not . We don't find life in the one offs , tim . We find life in the consistency in a particular direction . And it's not about giant leaps and bounds where you make tons of progress all at once , where you're like , oh , I did it . Now that's not come on . There's no adventure in that , there's no beauty in that , there's no difficulty in that . You didn't fight for anything , you had it handed to you .
Speaker 2Real Christianity , real love for Christ , is this process of walking out the life that he lived in your own life and hitting those frustrations and difficulties in meeting Christ in those places that he suffered first , so that you can also know him in his living . That's the picture , and discomfort is a really good thing if you're a Christian because , generally speaking , if it's in progress or in obedience to God , all it means is I've thrown myself in the water and I'm drawing closer to Christ . I mean that's the goal . My whole life has been one uncomfortable situation after another , and when I tried to explain that to my wife earlier on , I was like I feel like God's just telling me to get uncomfortable . Like this statement you're bringing up Tim is very , very common in our house .
Speaker 2Like my Christian walk is going to be me constantly moving from discomfort to discomfort and once I get comfortable , god's probably going to put me in another uncomfortable place . Why ? Because that's where I meet him . That's where he meets me . He's in the fire right . He's on the cross . He's in the middle of all the angry Pharisees . He's out on the sea in the storm .
Speaker 2Yahweh shows up in these explosive , frustrating moments where you are following him and you're irritated that you feel like it's led you to somewhere that doesn't work . And then he parts the sea in front of your face to show you how good he is . But if you don't obey him and get up to that uncomfortable place , you're never going to see that Red Sea Road . And in our family and the families of a lot of people that we counsel a lot of marriages , that we spend time with man , that uncomfortable place is God preparing you for a miracle that he's about to do . He's bringing you to a place where you can take your foot out of the boat and step onto the water . But if you are that person who constantly plays it safe . You're going to be the person who goes back to fishing . I'm telling you , you're going to be a boring Christian . Don't be a boring Christian .
Speaker 1Don't do it , I guess . I think there's another side of being uncomfortable , though , too , is when you get invited to , like a small group , bible study , whatever .
Speaker 2And everybody knows each other and you don't know anybody , and they're just talking like through you .
Speaker 1You know what I mean . Yeah , it's a little uncomfortable in a way that I don't want to go back there . I mean they're nice , they're friendly . I had coffee , whatever .
Speaker 2Okay , would you feel like that with Jesus and the twelve disciples ?
Speaker 1Probably .
Speaker 2I would you kill to sit in on those conversations and just listen .
Speaker 2And then eventually maybe get to a place where you're willing to speak up and be a part of it . I mean , I think again , when we think about stuff that way , I just think we think about it wrong . You know it's like am I going this ? Because it's some what ? Do you want A stewardess to come to the table and tell , ask me what kind of logger I want . Like , what , like , what's ?
Speaker 2When we go to those groups , we're just trying to engage with the word of God and engage with each other , and some people are more naturally gifted socially than others , but everyone is growing equally . I promise you you're going to get immense things out of it , even the people that don't think they're growing . Oh , you're really growing . You know I'm not getting anything out of this . It's really important that you keep going in , pal . You know like it is . And again , and if you punt on it quickly , that's just not what I want , dude . It's not about what you want , it's just not . It's about what Jesus wants for you . It's not about what you feel is the most comfortable . It's about what Jesus says is better in this particular situation . That's why people walked up to him . You know like I want to follow you . He's like listen , man , I don't even have a bed . You're like okay , never mind , right .
Speaker 1You know it was a real thing .
Speaker 2I want to follow you and he's like let me go bury my father . Nah , man , Like it's not following Jesus , is accepting the fact that I don't know what's best and I'm going to trust my father , you know . And it's like if you go to a smoker , but it's uncomfortable or whatever . Look , I'm not saying everybody there is amazing , and they're the 12 disciples , Although you know , you read about the 12 , you're like maybe .
Speaker 2Pretty close , pretty close it's messy and we would recognize if I was spending time with Jesus , even if I felt like I was being overlooked or I wasn't seen , I would totally do that . Well , listen , christian , do you know that the Holy Spirit is active and living and that Jesus is present with us at all times in those situations ? So in a very real sense , you are spending time with the people of God , disciples of God and the presence of God . But if you don't see it that way , you're always going to assume you know better or have a better plan . That would be rather presumptuous .
Speaker 2I think it's that old GK Chesterton quote Tim when the reporter asked him what would you do if Jesus was standing behind you right now ? And he told him he is . We should live like that , right , I think it's 1 Thessalonians 5 where it says you know the Lord is near . You know , be gracious to all , the Lord is near . Well , he didn't . I don't think he was just talking about proximity of the Lord coming . I think his point was that God is eminently close at all times . He's omnipresent . You were in the presence of .
Speaker 1God , I'm very hearing this . I think it was Graham Cook . That's a person . This was a long time ago .
Speaker 2Yeah , he was a documentary . He was a prophetic guy , yeah .
Speaker 1But he every morning was his Bible time with God and he would make two cups of coffee and say that one day I want Jesus to drink that coffee . So I'm like put it out there for him . He's in this room with me every time .
Speaker 2That's so funny . So I've done that a couple of times not drink his coffee , but pour two cups of tea or something like that . I used to do this a lot and I'll still do it . If I have time , like where it's a sweet time , I got my candles , let I got my stuff . I just like to picture God's presence with me , sitting next to me . I'm just like all right , what do you got for me this morning ? What do you want to share ? You know what I mean . I've done it a couple of times . I've poured an extra cup of tea and I'm like this is probably dumb , but it makes it feel more real to me .
Speaker 2I'm just using things in my life to leverage that . So I remind my heart this is real , it is this real . I just can't . I can't wrap my head around that yet , not until I'm clothed in glory , that's right .
Speaker 1That's it , man . I'm glad this actually worked out .
Speaker 2Look , I'm just excited to be back at it and having these conversations . Listen , if you've been comfortable too long , get uncomfortable . Do some stuff for Jesus . Draw near , throw yourself in the water , get baptized again . If you need to get baptized again , go to that group that you don't like . It's going to grow . You step on the grass until your feet get solid all of those things . But whatever you need to do for fresh air to make its way into your lungs so that you would live the life that God has for you , do it . You will not regret it .
Speaker 1Awesome , Cool , All right , guys , catch you all next time . Have a great week .
