Navigate Podcast
Welcome to Navigate, we are two long term friends doing life and ministry together. I got tired of the same ole answers when I started looking for help when it came to my walk with God. So together we go deeper than most would on topics that most people have heard or were taught but never fully understood. It is our way of simplifying concepts that we may have over complicated throughout our lives. Bringing theology and life experience into each episode. It is our hope and desire to help Navigate your Christian walk with you
Navigate Podcast
Finding Freedom in Christ: Healing, Conviction, and Divine Truth
TJBHpodcast@gmail.com
Can past traumas continue to influence us even after we find salvation? Join us on this powerful episode of Navigate as we explore the profound concept of freedom in Christ with our guest, Pastor Sergio. He shares his journey of healing from deep wounds and how these experiences have shaped his understanding of genuine freedom. Through the compelling analogy of a soldier with combat scars, Sergio emphasizes the need to address deep-seated issues and how true healing in Christ is an ongoing process.
what's up guys? Welcome back to navigate. I am not with justin or aj or anybody else you probably heard of. I'm with a man called sergio.
Speaker 2:Let's go I'm actually the, the voice that does every other voice right because aj said, he just copies justin's voice.
Speaker 1:That's right yeah, everybody thought justin was just aj was just justin. You know, aj is just the mastermind of everybody. It's actually just me puppets, sock puppets we actually had sergion probably two years ago. Dude, it's been a while when we did a god pursuit episode of your life story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, been a little jelly because it's like everybody else has been going on and then it's like we're Sergio, we're Sergio, I know. He's dead.
Speaker 1:That episode was actually really good. You guys gotta go listen to that. Sergio's got a pretty crazy life, but now he's on staff here as a pastor. Yep, he's really big into this idea of freedom in Christ. Oh yeah, this isn't something we haven't discussed, but I wanted to get Sergio's perspective going on in this. So when I say freedom of Christ Sergio, well, I guess when you hear that, what do you think?
Speaker 2:Freedom in Christ. I mean it can be a huge topic and it can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people. The way I've defined it or has been introduced to me and the experiences that I've had, you know you can talk, say, freedom in Christ for unbelievers. You know they're walking a life of recklessness and then they meet Christ and their whole life's redeemed right. That's one aspect of it. The things that I've been dealing with pretty recently and taking a whole lot of is freedom for the redeemed believer. It's like post-salvation Post-salvation. Justin Hart gave me this analogy. This is great. It's like a picture of someone getting out of combat, out of a war. They're alive but they have wounds right. They got a bullet or they got shrapnel, they got an arrow, so we got to take that out, we got to disinfect it, let the wound heal completely to find total healing right.
Speaker 1:So that stuff just doesn't go away just because you become saved. Yeah, start following Christ.
Speaker 2:So there's a lot of things that Christ cleans off the bat it's wiped away. But there's a lot of other things that are deeper, that are stronger, that are deep in you, that not necessarily Christ cannot remove, but in his will and what he desires for your life and for your story. He might just be like I need you to walk in this for a while and then find healing as you go what kind of deep wounds you talking about.
Speaker 1:It's just like childhood trauma.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, a lot of trauma, man, like childhood trauma if it was either abuse of all kinds verbal, verbal abuse, emotional abuse, physical abuse, just trauma and what happens is a stronghold is built in your life. It starts with a wound. Right, you're growing up, dude, your dad's gone, he's out of the house, the one that was meant to instill identity in you, to teach you things, to walk you through things, to be your coach, especially as a man. When a dad's out of the house, dude, it causes so much pain, causes so much issues. Well, I would say equally for both men and women, when their father's not around, right, they look different for both sides. And so when you grow up without anyone instilling any identity in you, you, you're left open to being, to being molded by the things around you. So you grow up, no dad, you, you know, you hit your teen years. You're in high school, especially in public school in a bad part of town. You're being molded by your friends. You're being molded by your friends, you're being molded by their experiences. And if you're hanging out with friends who have a terrible household, where there's no restrictions in their household, they're not believers, they're doing all kinds of stuff. And then guess what? Now? You're doing all kinds of stuff and because there hasn't been anybody there to instill identity in you, you're being formed and shaped by these things. You're being influenced by a lot of the stuff and they just grow into sin patterns that take you deep, deep, deep deep into just a lot of dark stuff. And then you know, you come to Christ, your life is redeemed, it's turned around, you're given a new name, you have the Holy Spirit, but there is still patterns of your past that are alive in you. And the progression. I call this a stronghold, right, many people have different names for it, but I call this a stronghold.
Speaker 2:So there's a wound, and then what Satan loves to do is speak a lie into that wound. What Satan loves to do is speak a lie into that wound. So let's say, you know, you grew up with your dad and then you're 12, and he just leaves the house and immediately there's a wound. Why? Because you need your father. And then Satan says well, guess what, dude, he didn't love you. You are the problem, you caused your dad to leave. And, dude, satan has no mercy, right? You know what I mean? He's gonna tell that to a five-year-old, to a seven-year-old, to a ten-year-old. And then what happens is you agree with that lie and then you say okay yeah, and that kind of takes on its own identity for you yes, right, you agree to that lie, you hold on to it and then that becomes your identity and then your whole life you're living out.
Speaker 2:This identity is like the problems in this world is because of me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm terrible, I suck, I this, I that I that I that right which I think in some cases that's probably true um, yes, theologically right if you look at it like the bible says there is no one righteous no, not one. Yeah, right. But then when? When you do find redemption in like the Bible says there is no one righteous no, not one. But then when you do find redemption in Christ, the Bible says you are a saint, you are redeemed, you are a child of light, you are a child of the kingdom of God, and so in that redemption, the past is no longer true. So when God, what the Bible, calls you a saint, it's not a saint because of what you've done or what you do, but you're a saint because God calls you that right. And then, but at the same time, you're like I'm still living in these patterns of my past.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that can be very frustrating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, very frustrating.
Speaker 2:You're living in these patterns but at the same time, dude, you don't even realize it, a lot of these things, you don't realize that you've been living a lie.
Speaker 2:So when you come into the truth, it takes some, it takes a work of God to be able to reveal to you the lies that you've been living. In A revelation of the Holy Spirit, to say why do you think yourself this way? And then, until you have that understanding, like why have I? I believe this lie about myself and I've combined that with the truth of scriptures and I know I'm saved and I know I'm redeemed, but I still, in some way I'm living out habits of the lie that I once believed, even now in truth. So the way I like to kind of instill this picture in people is you know, sanctification is you're learning truths about who you are and learning how to apply them in your life, but simultaneously you're unlearning who you were right. So, um, you can learn new truths about you, but if you're not letting go of who you were, if you're not letting go of the lies in the past, it's going to be very difficult for you.
Speaker 1:I think justin gave the picture of sanctification of a dirty sponge and you put underneath water and you squeeze it and all that dirt comes out.
Speaker 2:But you've got to keep working on it because this gets continued dirty. Yeah, and you know I can imagine as a sponge it's not fun to get squeezed like that.
Speaker 1:I don't find sanctification very fun at all.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's not fun at all. But so, yeah, you know, you unlearn the patterns of this world, you unlearn these lies, but you can't unlearn those lies and you can't renounce and reject them until someone opens your eyes to hey, this is not true, right? So I do a lot of steps to freedom in Christ. I sit down with a lot of people.
Speaker 1:So is being sorry I didn't cut you off but being specific with those lies, does that matter? Or is it just more like a hey, god, help me with this, because something's off and I don't know why, and then move on, you know?
Speaker 2:What do you mean?
Speaker 1:Like this wound of being abandoned as a child, or see, you were molested or something crazy. Or maybe you still deal with porn or something right? Yeah, I mean just calling out like, hey, god, I need help, or is it? Hey, I don't know why I'm feeling this way.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, dude, what I've run into is so you know, I'm at the altar after service on Sundays, praying with people.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And when people come to me, before I even start praying for them, I start asking them open-ended questions. I start asking them like, what do you need prayer for? And then they tell me. And then, once I start hearing what they're saying, if I need more information, I start digging in further. And then, when I start digging in further before praying for them, they're probably thinking like, dude, I'm here for prayer, what do you invest in counseling? So I start, I start asking deeper questions and then the lies start coming out. Okay, they start talking about themselves in a way or a situation in a way that is contrary to scripture what's an example of that?
Speaker 2:like somebody's doing that to you oh man it's like a self-worth type of thing, you know, or it's like yeah, dude, you know, like I'll give you a just an arbitrary example, like some lady will come up and say I need help because, um, I'm divorced, you know, and I'm in pain because of this and it probably was my fault. You know, I should have done things differently. My kids are prodigals and I know that I could have probably that. And it's like, okay, hold on, hold on. That sounds like condemnation, right, and it's easier when you know the person and you know that they are a blood-bought, spirit-filled, nice, born-again believer. And they're like, really pointing things at themselves.
Speaker 2:I stop them right there. It's like, hey, you're living in condemnation right now. It's like, let's break that first, let's break that. Look, we're not all perfect, we could have done things differently, but you're still allowed in Satan to condemn you for the things of your past, right? It's like, and that's what's keeping you from experiencing the fullness of Christ, that's what's keeping you from growing. Why? Because you're still agreeing with Satan in these lies, and so that's just one example. So you stop that. And you've got to tell them like hey, renounce this Nice. Got to tell them like hey, renounce this nice. And the thing is, we, we, uh, until you're told and someone sheds light into this. You are it's easy dude to atone for your own sin. Yeah, it feels good. Um, it's like a such a fleshly thing because you know, you know you've done something wrong and you know you want to please your father. And and then you have this thing in your mind where you want to go before your father and say Father, I am the worst, I suck, I know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know Right.
Speaker 2:You want to say the words that your father is going to say to you before he even says them. Right, right, and that's our….
Speaker 1:It's like recognizing the situation, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and see, this is where it gets tricky, though, because this is where we project our earthly fathers and see God the Father like that, because your father, your earthly father, probably would have said dude, I'm tired of you doing that, right, I'm tired of you doing this. You know what, dude, you need to shape up or ship out.
Speaker 1:Right. I recognize as a kid. If I would just recognize what I did wrong, then the punishments would be far less.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, one thing is recognizing like hey, I confess, I have sinned. Right, right but this is not what we do. Yeah, this is what we do. We do, father, I'm tired of being such a crappy son. I'm tired of being such a poor loser who continues to sit and do all the wrong things. I'm so evil, I'm so vile, I'm so filthy. Right, this is what we say to God.
Speaker 1:No 100%.
Speaker 2:And we think that if we say that before God says that about us, god's going to be like so you understand and you know, and that's okay.
Speaker 1:Pete, and now you're forgiven for it.
Speaker 2:Jared, yeah, right, but the thing is, when you go to your father and say, father, I have sinned in a bad way, god says, I know, but I love you, you're my son and guess what? I'm glad you're here because I'm going to help you change that. See, that's what our Heavenly Father says. But we think that we have to at See, that's what our Father, heavenly Father says. But we think that we have to atone for ourselves and call ourselves names and put ourselves down and really chastise ourselves before the throne room of grace.
Speaker 2:And that's where it's backwards, man, because as a child of God, you go before God and you say God, I confess I have done things contrary to your will and I am in sorrow and I am in grief because I have grieved you. Right, because I want your approval. Like, that's one type of prayer and that's a healthy prayer, yeah, but when it turns into I am the most disgusting, vile thing that exists in this world. Now you're saying things that God has never spoken about you. Nice. Now you're saying things that Satan continues to speak about you.
Speaker 1:That's interesting Because I've said those too. You know what I mean. I've gone to God and been like God. I'm so stupid, I'm so tired of thinking like this or yeah, yeah, it's an interesting thought. It really is you. It really is.
Speaker 2:You're saying that those are just the lies that you're falling into basically, I'm thinking about this now, dude, think about how backwards it is, because when we pray, a good exercise to learn how to pray is praying God's words back to him, and when we're praying like saying God, I am so disgusting, you're praying Satan's words to God, you know.
Speaker 1:That's interesting Backwards dude yeah.
Speaker 2:It's just, yeah, it's very vile, and I see a lot of Christians living in that. So that's why I love being at the altar and being able to pray for people, because I'm like sniffing out these strongholds and believers and when I ask them something specific and then I hear their response, I know they're sitting in condemnation or they're sitting in lies and then I attack them. You know what I mean. I go after those lies and then you start seeing people be set free at the altar.
Speaker 1:I was going to say how do people respond? Are people always like, yeah, you're totally right, or do people just get mad Like no, who are you to tell me?
Speaker 2:Yeah, the experiences that I've had and obviously with the power of the Holy Spirit being present, the experiences that I've had is people break down when you hit it right in the nail, they just can't contain it and they just weep and then in that moment, you know, sometimes the Holy Spirit kicks in. I know a lot of times the Holy Spirit kicks in because I leave that prayer not remembering what I said, you know. And that's how I kind of have tried to decipher when it's me and when the Holy Spirit has kicked in.
Speaker 1:When I don't remember what I said, but that person's weeping and this person's crying in front of you yeah, it feels powerful. It's like, yeah, that was Jesus, what did I do?
Speaker 2:It's like you just had a conversation with Jesus. Man, you're welcome. No $5, please no. So you know they're weeping man, because you hit it right where it goes and then the Holy Spirit brings conviction. So in that moment you have to learn how to walk them through freedom. Nice, it's like you speak, you give them words to renounce the specific lie, you give them truth to replace the lie with and truth is always going to be scripture of what God has said about who you are and then you pray for renewal, you pray for healing and you ask God to just clean up that wound that God opened up at that moment, disinfect it entirely. So I'll give you an example.
Speaker 2:I was praying with this one lady and she was just like I have tore my family apart, my anger, my bitterness, my critiques, my all this and that. And then, the more you do this with people, the more you already know. You start seeing like patterns and you can kind of know what lie it is, because Satan doesn't have many lies, right? Yeah, the tricks that Satan has, it's all a backwards truth, right? So it's not like you're going to hear a lie where there is no truth to it, right? So if there's a lie, it's because there's a truth behind that. So God spoke this truth and then Satan's going to turn that around. So you can kind of already know the lies that Satan is speaking into people, because you know the truth that God is speaking over people, right, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so this lady. She was like I did this, I did this and I've done that. And so this lady she was like I did this, I did this and I've done that. And I was like, okay, let's bring some truth into who you are, right, let's bring some truth into your identity. So I started walking her through renouncing some stuff, some guilt, some unforgiveness against other people and against herself, like renouncing lies that you've got to control everything because everything's going to go south when God says I'm providing for you and I'm going to protect you, right. And then we got to a point where I said and I replaced it with the truth that I am the apple of your eye, because that's what scripture says. Right, and she couldn't do it. And that's how I know that was a huge stronghold, Because I can see her mouth like shaking.
Speaker 2:She really wanted to say I am the apple, but something was holding her from doing that and I was watching that like in present time. And I was watching that like in present time and I was like blown away. She could not speak those words to herself about herself. Yeah, and I had to push. I said you got to do this, you got to do this. This is true. You got to speak these truths and you got to do it now.
Speaker 2:And so I was praying against, you know, demonic influence. I was praying against strongholds. I was asking the Holy Spirit to just really do a move. And she was like weeping the whole time, dude, and she could just not open her mouth to say these words, wow, and she finally was able to do it. And when she said it, dude, you could just see just healing boom just fall right on her. It was such an incredible moment, dude. She came back, maybe a few weeks she's like I've been able to like she was just there, was transformation that she had never felt before um, so it was very satisfying to watch and encouraging sure damn.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you something about, uh, conviction. How does that work? Like in your own language, conviction yeah, because for me conviction is different with any christian right. So I remember a long time ago justin's like I think god told me not to drink anymore, like that was his conviction right.
Speaker 2:That doesn't mean I couldn't drink anymore right, yeah, you know what I mean, right. So you know we, um, when we prescribe things for ourselves, or when God prescribes things for us as his people, we got to know where God is drawing the lines for everyone, right, and we got to know where God is not drawing the lines for everyone. So If someone comes and is on the pulpit and he's saying, if you drink beer, you are sinning against the holy God, you are doing this and you're going to go to hell and you're going to repent of that, and blah, blah, blah, blah. Right, does scripture say that? No, right, it does not say that Scripture says limit yourself, do not be drunkards. Right, do not be addicted to too much wine. But it doesn't say do not, right.
Speaker 2:So that man is drawing lines where God hasn't drawn the line, and that is not okay, nice. There's a difference. When God tells me as an individual, it's like hey, dude, you've struggled with alcohol in your past and if you continue down that path, you can probably end up back there, right, yeah, and God brings that conviction in you where you're going to be sober, never taste alcohol, ever again. That conviction is for you and it's not for everybody else, right, right.
Speaker 1:So how do you— but we shouldn't hold that to other people, right? No, no, no, it's not law, right, right.
Speaker 2:Whatever God said is law and the lines that God has drawn for everyone. We got to make sure and enforce and uphold those standards, those lines ourselves, for our people, for our nation, for our churches. But where God hasn't drawn the line, we can't do that. But God will convict us individually and say hey, I don't think Netflix is good for you. Okay, I'm not going to watch Netflix, but I'm not going to go and tell everybody in my congregation that if they're watching Netflix they're sinning against God.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right.
Speaker 2:Is it wisdom to probably not be paying streaming services that are worshiping Satan? Right, probably Right, but is there condemnation for doing that? No, right, but is there condemnation for?
Speaker 1:doing that? No, but don't we hold convictions, though, onto people maybe who aren't are they new believers or they're old, or maybe they're not believers and we hold these convictions that God has set that line like you're talking about against them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it can go in a lot of different ways right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if God said in his word that murder is wrong, he didn't say that for just the Christians, right, he said that for the world. Right, yeah, so we got to uphold God's law. But when you live in a society that wants to do everything it can to, you know, kick out morality, moral law, because moral law is God's law, right, there's no God, there's no morality. You can't have morality without God. But they've twisted it so much where they're kicking out God's law. And then you have so many churches that are like, yeah, well, god's law was you know? No, it's like okay, so then why do you think murder is bad? Where does that?
Speaker 1:come from.
Speaker 2:Well, because God has spoken that right, and so there are things that we enforce for the whole world, for humanity, because God has chosen that for humanity and has drawn those lines. But there's other areas where it does only belong to the Christian, where it does only belong to the individual, and that's where you got to know your scripture, you got to know what the bible says and what god has drawn for everybody. It gets very tricky, dude, when you're talking about talking about theonomy and god's law and all these things like it is very tricky, um, but there are, there are a lot of areas in scripture where god is very explicit like we, this is not gonna happen yeah, you know, because I know for me, like I mean, does God hold sin against you if you don't think it's sin?
Speaker 2:Does God Okay?
Speaker 1:That's a great question. Going back to the conviction part, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. So we'll go to Jonah. I know we've been talking about that recently. You know Jonah has been sent to nineveh to go preach and cry out against their sin. And then that story ends with god saying he's like you wanted me. He's telling jonah because jonah's upset, yeah, because he didn't destroy them. Yeah, and he's like you. You're telling me you're upset because I didn't destroy 120 000 people who don't know their right hand from their left, who are ignorant to righteousness. Right, you're mad because I didn't destroy them. So what we see in there is God's mercy for people who have not had their eyes open to sin. Right, but it is God the one that ordains mercy.
Speaker 2:He's the one that ordains compassion and says says you can be forgiven for what you've done. Now is there consequences for sin? Yes, for the believer and the nonbeliever there's earthly consequences for sin. Now I'm going to say this and hopefully, if it's wrong, j Jay Hart can come and destroy me. Anybody any other theologian out there is totally fine. I'm okay to change my theology when I'm wrong. So I think people in the way it's been taught in the pulpit for so long. People think that you go to hell because of the deeds that you do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like a balance thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:If I do more good in life than evil, then I get to heaven.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like if you're 20 years old and they think you've never sinned in your life, right. And then that one moment you sinned, that one day now you're deserving of hell. That's not what the Bible teaches, yeah, right. So the Bible teaches that in the moment you were born, you were on your way to hell. Not because of what you've done, because of who you are. You're sons of Adam, sons of the flesh, and there's wrath and destruction that comes against you because God has cursed the earth. And so when you talk about like, is there compassion for ignorance? Yeah, who decides that? God decides that.
Speaker 2:But it's not your deeds that merit hell, it's not your deeds that merit condemnation, it's the fact that you're born in this flesh. You're born an enemy of God from the first day you come in. An enemy of God from the first day you come in. And so. But God loved the world so much that he sent His only Son to reverse that, to break that curse right. He died a curse Himself so that the curse can be broken in us. And so, therefore, we are no longer enemies of God. That curse has been wiped away and we are reconciled to the Father.
Speaker 2:Now there is no longer any condemnation for any of our deeds, but not only no condemnation for our deeds, but no condemnation for our nature, because our nature is fundamentally different. Now. We have inherited an eternal kingdom in heaven, but there is still earthly consequences for the decisions and the sin that we do in our lives, even though there's no condemnation. So, uh, you know when people make that argument. Well, you know, I didn't know that this was wrong, so I shouldn't go to hell. Yeah, well, again, it's not your deed that sent you to hell.
Speaker 1:You know, it's because of how you were born I think that's easier to process when you think of adults, when you think of, like my two-year-old yeah you know what I mean? Yeah, it's. It's a little different, right? And?
Speaker 2:and then, and then. So you go down this rabbit hole like, okay, so if my two-year-old dies today, is she going to hell, right, right. And it's just like does that happen? Does that not happen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well then you got to go into covenant theology. Look at covenant promises. You see God blessing Abraham and his generations for being a righteous man. Right, but why did Abraham receive the blessing? Well, he received the blessing because God considered him righteous, because of his faith. Are you a man of faith? Yeah, I'm a born-again believer. There's blessing for you and your generations and all those that come after you.
Speaker 2:Now the Bible also points to David had a miscarriage and then he says I will see my son in heaven. He has that comfort, right. And as people of the Covenant promise of God, we have that eternal hope that if we lose a child at an early age, we will one day be with us. Yeah, nice, I like that. Yeah, dude, when you become a born-again believer, did you receive inheritance blessings that go past our understanding? Yeah. And then you also got to talk about baptism, infant baptism and all this. It's like does your child have a blessing now because he's a believer, or did your child have a blessing because you're a believer? Right, right. And so there's all those arguments.
Speaker 1:We're planning on doing a baptism episode eventually. Yeah, I didn't want to jump again. Yeah, and.
Speaker 2:I'm not qualified for that. Well, I'll let Jay Hart deal with all those issues.
Speaker 1:Is it true that God forgets all sins that you do?
Speaker 2:Is it true that God forgets all the sins that you do?
Speaker 1:It says, like God casts them as far as the east is from the west right, doesn't hold them against you.
Speaker 2:That's a great question. Can God forget things? No, but he's saying what he's communicating is I will no longer hold anything against you from your past because now you have been redeemed, you know that we are very good at doing that as humans. Right, we are excellent at reminding people how much they suck, and then we want to use that to condemn them. Right, like you see this in marriages like a wife will never trust her husband after 20 years. Like, why will you never trust your husband? Well, because when we were dating, he cheated on me and kissed another girl. Okay, but you have the responsibility of forgiving. Well, yeah, I forgave him. That's why I'm still married with him. Yeah, but you don't trust him. It's like, yeah, because I will never forget what he did to me.
Speaker 2:See, that's not what God does with us. God is going to say I know exactly who you are, I know exactly what you do, I know exactly what you're going to do tomorrow and how you're going to offend me tomorrow. But, yeah, I'm going to trust you with things, I'm going to empower you and I'm going to give you influence around your people. And not only that, I'm going to bless all those in your circle of influence your family, despite your awfulness, you know. And so that's true trust right there. And then God calls us to act in the same way with our family, in the way he does with us. So there's husbands and wives out there who have been struggling in marriages for years because they can't trust each other. What it really means is you're sinning against your spouse by not trusting them.
Speaker 2:Or something that happened probably years ago, probably years ago, right, and you're sinning against your spouse. You're sinning against God, because what you're saying is I will always hold this against him and I'm never going to give him the benefit of the doubt or give him the blessing of my full trust. It's like, yeah, well, you're not God. You're playing God in that moment. And it's like, yeah, well, you're not God. Right, you're playing God in that moment. And it's risky, right, it's very risky.
Speaker 1:I know I've done that with people.
Speaker 2:Oh, I do this all the time, man.
Speaker 1:If I meet somebody in high school I just did not get along with did not like them, and then I meet them again, 10, 20 years later. I'm still thinking of them as that annoying dude who did this to me 20 years ago.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean and I feel like I have to throw a qualify in there, because I'm thinking about my wife right now. She would say, yes, but the relationship is not going to be the same and it's just like yeah, there's wisdom in the sermon that falls into that. Right, you have extended family who have hurt your children. You're not going to bring them around your children anymore, right, true? Or there's going to be maybe a point in time in the future where things have totally been redeemed. But you don't hold your sin against that person means I'm not condemning you in my heart and I'm not condemning you as a person and giving you that identity of what you did. But there is boundaries and there is healthy lines where it's like you're just not going to cross that anymore for the sake of protecting my children. Nice, you know. So there are. It's very, it's circumstantial and there's a lot of discernment and I just want to qualify.
Speaker 1:That's good yeah, that's good. Um, well, back to kind of this freedom thing you're talking about with the praying with people you mentioned, this lady coming up saying I have all this anger and bitterness and that's what caused my kids to go astray or my divorce or whatever. Yeah, isn't there some merit to that? Being truthful, like if I'm an angry person and I hit my wife or something terrible right. That's my fault, like I'm, I did cause all this, so where's that kind of redemption coming from?
Speaker 2:Right Like how do you?
Speaker 1:because how do you look at people as like, yeah, yeah, you're forgiven, you believe in these lies, but also, yeah, it was your fault.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, I treat unrepentant sin very different than repentant sin, people who are coming out in confession and acknowledging, like, dude, I have destroyed my family and I am grieving that I am wounded and I know, I know that it was because of me. It's just like, good, bring that to the cross. Accept that Now. Let's walk forward. Let's move forward. Remember your identity in Christ. Okay, don't use that as your identity. Your deeds do not define you when you are in Christ. Yeah, okay, don't use that as your identity. Your deeds do not define you when you are in Christ. Right, and so when someone is unrepentant, I don't talk to that person in that same way. It's just like yeah, dude, I did this and I'm going to do it again.
Speaker 1:And I love who I am. Right, yeah, that's who I am. I can't change it.
Speaker 2:Unrepentant. It's like, okay, dude, well, there's wrath, right? Well, there's destruction, there's consequences. You are actually living contrary to what God has spoken. So there's two different attitudes to people's sin. Right, I just, dude, I can't stand.
Speaker 2:There's something that just goes off in me when I see a fellow brother or sister in Christ who is repentant, who has confessed, who has acknowledged that they have gone against what God has spoken to be true.
Speaker 2:God has spoken to be true, but the lies and the condemnation Pastor Jeff said this the other day the cloak of shame that they're in does not allow them to walk in the fullness or experience the fullness of forgiveness, the fullness of grace, the fullness of mercy. I just dude, I'm like I go off the rails when I see that and I'm like, dude, you need to realize the fullness of God's grace for your life, Because that's keeping you from actually walking in a better direction, from actually truly amending things, mending things with the people you've hurt. It's like you want to reconcile things, you want to try to restore the things that you've hurt. It's like you want to reconcile things, you want to try to restore the things that you've hurt. You're not going to restore your children or your marriage until you experience the fullness of Christ Right and I'm sure these people want that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like who wouldn't?
Speaker 2:Exactly, but it's Satan and his lies and it's the shame that they're in that won't let them make a better move for themselves and their family, that won't let them make a better move for themselves and their family. And so when I say it drives me off the rails, it's not them that gets me like that, it's just I hate seeing people in chains. I can't stand that and I'm like I'm going to do everything I can to help you. You need to break that off and we need to give you life right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure that's crazy, man. I mean, that's pretty much our time right there. Bud. Wow Went by fast, huh, cool. Yeah, thanks for being there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I hope this was a blessing to people out there. There is freedom, there is truths, there is promises, and if you are a born-again believer, god has spoken a better word over your life, and it is not because of your deeds, but it's because of His incredible love and grace for who you are. You are cherished, you are loved, you are important, you are significant to your Father and you need to know that Because once you know that, you can walk in so much freedom and really experience what God wants you to experience with Him.
Speaker 1:What would you tell somebody who wants that but doesn't know where to go, how to do it?
Speaker 2:Man. Find a minister, Find a pastor, bring that to light, talk to somebody about it. You got to cast lies out loud, are you are listening to the lies of? Okay? So I'm gonna give you this one trick, and I've learned this from justin hart and he's probably said this on the podcast before when you hear you, you're always having a conversation with yourself in your head. Yeah, there's thoughts in your head and the way you talk to yourself is I gotta go to king supers after work because I forgot this, I forgot that.
Speaker 2:And then, all of a sudden, there's a voice that's saying you, this, you, that, you, you, you. That's not you. That's a foreign voice in your head that is bringing condemnation, that is bringing lies, bringing condemnation, that is bringing lies. And then, if you don't know how to discern those voices, you're going to end up agreeing with Satan than with yourself or what God is saying about you, right? So first take some time and think of those lies that you are hearing, that start with you, and then renounce them. Say, in the name of Jesus, I renounce this lie. And when you renounce that, you got to replace it with truth. And I replace it with truth that Jesus has spoken this about me and this is who I am in Christ, and you got to do that for every single lie.
Speaker 1:Based off scripture right. The truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, based off of scripture, based off of what Jesus has said, based off of what God has spoken about you as a child of God. And also you got to say them out loud, because once you hear them out loud, they're very absurd. Once you hear them audibly, they're absurd. But find a pastor, find a minister and tell them I'm listening to this, I've been agreeing with this. I need help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, awesome Thanks buddy, All righty Cool. Well, hey guys.
