Navigate Podcast
Welcome to Navigate, we are two long term friends doing life and ministry together. I got tired of the same ole answers when I started looking for help when it came to my walk with God. So together we go deeper than most would on topics that most people have heard or were taught but never fully understood. It is our way of simplifying concepts that we may have over complicated throughout our lives. Bringing theology and life experience into each episode. It is our hope and desire to help Navigate your Christian walk with you
Navigate Podcast
The Significance of Sabbath. Commandments Pt. 4
What if the secret to a truly restful life is hidden in an ancient commandment? Join us as we unpack the significance of the Sabbath, guided by Josiah and other familiar voices. Through humorous anecdotes and intriguing biblical narratives, we reflect on the motivation Thanksgiving has given us, critiquing those who prefer to criticize rather than contribute, and encouraging active community participation. Listen along as we navigate the necessity of Sabbath rest and ponder its importance for a life less burdened by busyness.
Hey guys, welcome to Navigate. Hi Justin, hey buddy, Welcome back again. You look fabulous. Thank you, we are on a roll. You know why? Give me some butter? Because we've gone two in a row, justin. Oh my gosh, we're getting it done, we're doing it.
Speaker 2:It was the glory of Thanksgiving Tim it was. That has given us the special power and ability to stay on a roll.
Speaker 1:Speaking of bellies of power, we have Josiah with us. Oh yeah, it's good to be back.
Speaker 3:What is up, josie? What's up buddy?
Speaker 1:What's up guys? You only come on the podcast when Justin's here. I kind of feel a little hurtful about that. That's a fair point.
Speaker 3:I mean, I think, it was a long time ago. I was in a couple like when we were doing like the mini-divos. Oh, yeah, you brought me in on like two of those.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I kind of miss those.
Speaker 2:Back in the day.
Speaker 1:Back in the day.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you what. The next time I'm out, grab this guy, throw him in, give him a weird topic like I don't know, something like menstrual laws or something you know, just throw a weird one out and be like listen, josiah, you really need to explain to me.
Speaker 1:The stuff you guys find fascinating in the Bible is way different than me, you know.
Speaker 2:There's a story in Deuteronomy about this girl who tries to break up a fight, ends up getting her hand cut off. Explain to me why that happens.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry, some of you are going to look that up and find out what that's all about. It's a real thing somehow, yeah, anyways, let's continue this series of commandments. Okay, yeah, let's go. We're doing the fourth one, which is keep the Sabbath holy, and prior to recording this, we were talking, we kind of did one back in. Was it March?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were doing one on rest.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the Sabbath came up a lot, so there might be a lot of stuff that maybe comes back.
Speaker 2:I'm assuming there will be some overlap a little bit. Yeah, that's okay. That's fine, tim. You know what I think about. What I think about Sabbath, though, was when you were working at.
Speaker 1:DFC back in the day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you had that. What was it like? 10 o'.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah he was asking to speak to somebody and I said well, there's nobody here. He's like well, who are you? I'm like I'm just the maintenance guy. He's like oh, so you're not anybody important I need to talk to. Literally said important to talk to. Wow.
Speaker 3:Cool.
Speaker 1:Thanks, bud, and he's like that's all I needed to know and just left. But now I know what the fourth commandment is from the rest of my life because of that one dude. It was an angel. Angel or not, you never forget it, never forget it.
Speaker 2:And he walked among us. If it was an angel, he was a prick. When I'm dead, in eternity, I think.
Speaker 1:Tim, that's the point You're saying. I hope I don't meet him again. Maybe that's the wrong way to think about it. I don't know. I have a lot of stories from working back scenes in a church.
Speaker 2:I wonder if people let him into their church based on a set of specific questions that he can either answer or not answer.
Speaker 1:It was wild, I don't know it was very strange, very rude, that's pretty wild. I don't know it was very strange, very rude, that's pretty wild.
Speaker 3:It's like that false piety dude just walking around and critiquing every church yeah, he gets his jolly he's not serving or doing anything, but feels validated by telling everybody else what they're not doing.
Speaker 2:Well enough.
Speaker 2:Especially at 10 o'clock at night, when after hours, all I'm saying is, those who don't will always validate themselves by criticizing those who do will always validate themselves by criticizing those who do. So if you're somebody who is trying and working hard to do things and you're getting critiqued from people, just be reminded. 98% of those people, their whole existence. They feel validated by looking at you and feel better about not doing anything because they can point at people who haven't done it exactly right. And there's a lot of that in our world today in general.
Speaker 2:In fact, I feel like some people's whole ministry is built on that. You know what I mean. You get, oh geez, I don't want to name drop here, or else I'm doing the same thing.
Speaker 1:There are some people.
Speaker 2:I remember reading an article from Pulpit and Penn one time it was his blog and their whole goal in life is just to wreck people that they don't like. And I just remember thinking I will never be this person, I'm not going to do this. Like your whole thing is finding some weird nuance or a word somebody used the wrong way and then just lighting them up, and I'm like there's a very dark place in hell for people like you.
Speaker 3:Just calling everybody a heretic. That's what Jesus said to the Pharisees, right yeah?
Speaker 2:you love to load heaps on people's backs. You won't lift a finger to help them, right? So listen? If you listen to this podcast and we're throwing this out here, we haven't even gotten to the content today. There will be no rest for you. If you love to critique everybody else, you're constantly mad at your church. You're probably not serving, not helping and not bought into what's actually going on. Find a place either where you're going to do that or stop. Yeah, Okay, Throwing it out there. That's for free. Awesome, You're welcome. You're welcome for that.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, back to the subject matter here. The Sabbath. I'm actually more curious. Why was this a necessary commandment that God had to give his people.
Speaker 2:Why are any of them necessary, Tim?
Speaker 1:I could ask that question with all of them really, but I want to lead with that one.
Speaker 2:I think the Sabbath law, at least just from a functional standpoint, functional standpoint is written into the fabric of existence and what God commands as a eschatological reality and as a reality built into the fabric of who we are as insufficient people. So, to sum this up, the Sabbath is commanded by God to remind you, as an individual, that you are not enough. This is like a okay, here's an interesting thing to think about. Okay, why do you have to eat? Anybody ever been frustrated by hunger? Yeah, like, why is this a thing? Why did God make like?
Speaker 2:These are the things that hit me when I'm on the pillow at like 11 pm, the pillow thoughts, and I'm like trying to close my eyes and you've seen the meme before. And your brain is like hey, what happens if Pinocchio says my nose is going to grow? You know what I mean. And then you got to decide in that moment Is it a lie? Is it not a lie? Does his head just explode?
Speaker 2:One of these things, ultimately, is like why do you have to eat food? Well, god created you in such a way that you would have to remember that you are dependent on things that are non-negotiables, and if you don't do this, you will literally die, and it can either be a great joy to you, it can, or it can be a great frustration to you. Depends on how you want to view it and how you want to live your life Right. The, the lazy man, finds food a joy and also a terror, because he does not want to work to actually create the kind of food and enjoy the thing that he's meant to have. It's frustrating to him.
Speaker 2:All right, there's other elements of this that I could get into. Like there's just one after another. Why do we require this? Why is humans, are we so needy? And why is humans, are we so quick to think that we're not needy at all and everyone else is Um? I think the Sabbath represents for all of us this great reminder that we cannot find um or be sustained in who we are apart from reliance on God himself. And if this commandment isn't here, we become, let's say, ostensibly self-sufficient and totally fine without God. How's that?
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:Does that sum it up? Well, take your best shot at out of Josie.
Speaker 3:I would just piggyback onto there that it's the very essence of the gospel, because man's dependence upon himself and his own ability is what's being stripped away. When it comes to the Sabbath, you rest because God's the one who actually has control of everything in your life. It is not your job, it is not your efforts, it is not your efforts, it is not how much food you stored up, it's not all X, y and Z, all these different things that you've done in your life. What you're becoming dependent on when you have to take a day of rest is that God's the one that makes the world go round, and I think that is the very fabric and essence of the gospel in and of itself. And so, yeah, I mean it's fundamental to the creator-creature distinction that we are God's creatures and the fallenness of man is his attempt to become God. Therefore, the Sabbath was absolutely necessary to remind us of our creatureliness and who God is as creator.
Speaker 1:Okay, so, but the Sabbath, as we view it now, is like one day a week, usually with Sundays right.
Speaker 2:No no.
Speaker 1:You don't consider Sunday Sabbath? No, why not? A lot of people do, do you?
Speaker 2:consider Sunday Sabbath.
Speaker 3:I would say that I mean, that's what I was brought up to believe anyway.
Speaker 1:The.
Speaker 3:Sabbath was also a day of worship and rest in the Lord. I think that you're shown in the New Covenant that ministry is even allowed on that day. So I would say the Lord's Day would be rightfully the new Sabbath. What's the Lord's Day? The Lord's Day Sunday as opposed to Saturday. That's inaugurated because of Christ's resurrection. Oh, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:So normally a Jewish calendar is a lunar calendar and Sabbath is on Saturday, and then we celebrate the Lord's day on Sunday because it was a resurrection day. So I would say that the Sabbath let's say as a functional, let's say rigid principle of taking Saturday off. You know, in Israel, like the elevators, you can't press a button so they don't run on Saturdays.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Literally straight up. Wow, you're not allowed to flip a light switch on Saturdays. Like they are dead serious about some of this stuff. It blows my mind. Those regulatory principles around Sabbath, I would say, are transmuted to the heavenlies.
Speaker 2:Christ, let's say, fulfilled those in the law and I would say that the Sabbath for us now is a principle that we follow, not a practice that's as rigid on that particular day. In fact, I would say that I don't celebrate the Sabbath in this sense as I read it in the commandment. I would say I celebrate the Sabbath in Christ and there's principles about the Sabbath that are applied to the Lord's day, which is resurrection Sunday. If you think about the Sabbath being put into place, it was this where the final day, the ultimate last day, is a day of rest, right, and then after that day of rest is a new day. If you think about Christ coming, it represents our final rest has come and now we're beginning to celebrate something new, a new creation, a new day that begins after the fullness of what was accomplished.
Speaker 2:So, now that Christ has come, I would say the Lord's day for us does not. It resembles Sabbath, but is not the ultimate Sabbath, because Christ is our Sabbath he's our rest. Okay, interesting, kind of a wild ride there. Now listen, there's a lot of ink that has been spilled on this particular topic. Like some people, aggressive Sabbatarians they're like heck. No, if you mow your lawn on a Sunday and you don't attend church, there's a good chance you're going to be under church discipline for abusing the Sabbath.
Speaker 1:Well, the Pharisees went to Jesus too about working, doing stuff on the Sabbath. Oh yeah, he called them out for it too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, he told them I'm allowed to heal people on the Sabbath. Yeah Right, the Sabbath was made for you, not you for the Sabbath, Like his whole point. Oh, go ahead.
Speaker 3:Oh, sorry, no, I'm sorry, sorry to cut in here, but I mean it's for good deeds too. It's not that good deeds were liquidated, I mean Jesus' old parable of the man who. What is it? What's the parable that he uses of the analogy of? What is it the donkey?
Speaker 2:The donkey in the well.
Speaker 3:The donkey in the well and helping your neighbor. I mean it still was. I mean they went so far with the Mishnah and all these other laws that they began to be so hypercritical about this that you couldn't do anything but Jesus. I think a huge thrust of what he's trying to show them is that, look, because of your traditions, you added all this stuff onto there, but by no way was the Sabbath meant to exclude good deeds from happening Right. Otherwise you'd be disobeying the law because you'd see your neighbor in need and the law requires you to assist your neighbor and if you fail to do so, you're basically an accomplice if somebody's attacking them.
Speaker 2:You miss the point of the Sabbath, you miss the point of the rules. You put the cart before the horse. Yeah. So, like Isaiah 58, I'd love to bring up when we talk about Sabbaths. If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the Lord honorable, if you honor it, not going your own way or seeking your own pleasures or talking idly, then you shall take delight in the Lord and I will make you right on the heights of the earth. I will feed you with the heritage of your father, jacob, for the mouth of the Lord has spoken. This passage is really making the point. Hey, the Sabbath is not about you, it's not a day of self-care. You know? Help me out. Is it self-care?
Speaker 1:Self-help? Yeah, it's not a self-help day.
Speaker 2:It's not about that. It's about prioritizing the Lord. It's about resting in him and doing the things that he has asked you to do, instead of the things that you think you're supposed to do. So if your idea of Sabbath is eating hot dogs, watching ball games, playing a stupid game you like to play, or whatever, making it all about resting, I think you're actually missing the substance of it. Now, rest is certainly a part of it, but it's maybe a different kind of rest than what we think about. When we think about rest, we think about self-care, and I just I don't think that's the essence of what it's actually trying to get at, and it frames it a couple of different ways.
Speaker 2:So Deuteronomy frames the Sabbath in the, let's say, the redemption of the Israelite people, them being taken out of Egypt and brought into the promised land, and he basically says hey, take the Sabbath as a reminder, because God is the one who brought you out of Egypt and took care of you. So everybody in your land needs to take this day and remember that God is the one who saved you. You can't do it on your own. He's got you. Take the day to remember that.
Speaker 2:In Exodus, he actually frames it a little bit differently. He frames it in creation and says because God rested on this day, you need to do so as well. And it's kind of a twofold reminder. One, you need to do this because God modeled it for you first, and if he's telling you to do this, you need to do this.
Speaker 2:Secondly, he's making the point that, hey, god is telling you you need to rest because he's actually the one that's going to take care of you. In both senses it's a reference to what God has done and your need to, like, chill out, breathe out and focus on him and what he has done. And then obedience to what he has called you to do. Those are big deals, but both of them are kind of communicating at least basically the same substance of reliance on God and what he has told you instead of what you think you need to get done this particular day. And let's let's be honest, we're kind of addicted to work, but we're also addicted to entertainment, which makes us feel more exhausted and busy than we actually are. Yeah, now, wouldn't you agree with that, like?
Speaker 2:we totally agree, we had a lot going on, but sometimes our weariness and exhaustion is our own fault because we've just been death scrolling or doing whatever other weird nonsense we didn't need to do.
Speaker 1:I think rest for me has and this is a part of delusion I have is I finally get to do the things that I want to do and I get two, three hours or whatever it might be. I finally get to read this book or play this game or watch this movie with no interruptions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it rarely feels restful either. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's enjoyable, worthless.
Speaker 2:Honestly, it's the difference between something being enjoyable and it being restful maybe.
Speaker 3:What's fascinating is that you I mean even I was talking to Pastor Matt a while ago and he even talked about the culture in Europe and how they're able to just relax and everybody has a pretty slow life In the United States we have a totally different culture. We have a culture, as Rush Juney would call it, a culture of insomnia, A culture where you cannot rest, you cannot sleep, and even when you are resting, you are finding entertainment and you're doing things. And I think what's fascinating is ultimately that the heart condition behind that is a heart that doesn't want to be left to itself, because then it's going to tear itself to pieces or really feel the guilt and the weight of what it's done. I mean, this goes all the way back to. You know, I keep thinking of Rush Dooney's comments on this from the Institutes of Biblical Law, but what he talked about was that wicked people, people who are evil, they cannot rest.
Speaker 2:You're saying there's no rest for the wicked.
Speaker 3:There is no rest for the wicked. Yes.
Speaker 2:You can put it that way.
Speaker 3:But yeah, there's no rest for the wicked, and he talks about how every other religion. I mean, if your entire system is man-centered, then the world goes around because of you. Everything's dependent upon you, and when you decide to navel, gaze at yourself, you're going to be disappointed with yourself. I mean, this goes back to what you brought up in the beginning with sufficiency. We are insufficient, and so when, if I sit there and I'm supposed to rest and all I can meditate on is my insufficiencies, it's going to make me miserable. In fact, I cannot rest. I'm incapable of it because I'm not looking to the thing that is sufficient, that actually gives me peace. Because I have no peace, the wicked don't have peace. Then comes the distractions that we're talking about.
Speaker 2:Think about this in prayer. This is a good principle for you If you're thinking okay, justin, I get what you're talking about, this idea of rest, but it's focused on God, but it's also like a time of peace. If you're the kind of person when you pray, you got all these anxieties and frustrations, and you pray and you walk away and you still have all those anxieties and frustrations. You didn't like give those things to God or learn to focus on helpful things. You're just staying exhausted and involved God in the process. Yeah Right, sabbath is supposed to be like that. That day is a day where you're intentionally saying the angst that I feel, the projects that I think I need to get done. I'm intentionally laying these things aside and I'm going to focus on the good things God has done and hand those things to him and trust them with them, knowing that he actually has them, not me. Those things to him and trust them with him, knowing that he actually has them, not me. And if I continue to carry the load on this day of rest that I'm trying to take, or this time of rest that God has given me, instead of giving it to Christ during this time, what I am saying is. I know better than God does and I have to take care of this because he won't. That's the picture.
Speaker 2:So prayer and this day of Sabbath if you want to call it this, or this idea of Sabbath, are similar in this idea that it's actually an intentional removing of the weight that you have been carrying with regards to what you need to do and what you have to accomplish and putting those things on God and saying he is my rest. I'm going to put these things down and when I acknowledge that he is my rest, then I actually get rest myself. But until I make that mental shift, put these things on him and allow myself to breathe out and trust him with those things, I will not receive rest at all. I can't because I'll continue to shoulder something that I'm not supposed to. This is the point of why I was saying earlier. This is really fulfilled in Christ. If you are a Christian, christ is now your rest. All right, eschatologically, ultimately, soteriologically, other big words.
Speaker 2:At the end of all things, holiness is restored to us in a unique way that we didn't have before, and I brought this up on our other podcast. We did on this, but really angst and weariness is a desire for holiness that we have. I want to be made holy. I'm not Something's wrong, something is deficient, something is off, and I have a desire for it to be put back together. And my weariness, my hunger, all those things like. You realize this in heaven. You're not going to be hungry anymore. You're not going to need sleep anymore. Why? Because all of that's fulfilled. I no longer have that. Why? Because I'm in the very presence of Christ himself and he sustains all. And this is why, in like in Revelation, it says there's no need for the sun anymore. You don't need the sun, it's gone. Why? Because Christ is our light, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's like well, you mean the basic thing that's needed for all of life and existence itself, the thing that gives us night and day and all these things. Yeah, you don't need that. Why? Because Jesus literally now sustains all those. What is that? The restoration of holiness, the restoration of what you were meant to have in the very beginning, but even in a greater sense than in Eden, because you have transcended even the bodies that they had at that point into a resurrection body which is even greater than what they had in the Edenic state.
Speaker 3:In my opinion, yeah, and if you cannot rest in God now, like if you don't take seriously the Sabbath and the reality that you're meant to rest in God and depend on what he can do, then eternity is going to be terrible for you. I mean the penultimate blessing of rest, I mean what history ends in, is the ultimate rest that God has promised his people. If you can't rest now in him, the ramifications of that eschatologically is pretty bad for you. I mean because your life is still about you. You're independent. You're basically saying I have no need of God. And this is why it's so intriguing, because when I came to look at the Ten Commandments, this was always the one that stuck out to me. I'm like dude, why does that matter? Like who cares? Like even growing up, nobody ever really could describe to me why the Sabbath matters. In fact, most people would be like well, that doesn't apply to us anymore.
Speaker 2:At all yeah.
Speaker 3:But yet you know, the more that I've grown in understanding the scriptures, is that, just as you were saying, soteriologically, eschatologically, I mean, it's in the vein and fabric of everything that is Christianity. Yeah, and so.
Speaker 2:So if you thought about it this way, tim, you have have no other gods before me. Don't have any idols, don't take my name in vain or empty it of its meaning, and rely on me in all things. That, that's the picture that you have. I am everything that you need, and you need something ongoing in your life to remind you of that, lest you move away, float away from that deep reality that is supposed to be woven into the fabric of all things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is the Sabbath still just a day then? Cause it kind of like what you were saying about Christ being in you. Now he is your rest.
Speaker 2:This is great dude, so let's talk about this, okay, so think about it this way, tim you shall have no other gods before me. Is that something I do in a day? Do what have no other gods before Yahweh, before Jesus? Yeah, sure, is that something I do a day of the week?
Speaker 1:Every day, I would hope.
Speaker 2:Okay, so you're saying that that is not something that is, let's say, restricted to one particular day. Are there things that I do on?
Speaker 2:specific days to really emphasize that and make sure my heart is doing that. Well, I would hope so. I would hope so as well. Right, I think what we're seeing is, hey, the first table of the law which is really focused on this idea of understanding my relationship with God. Theology, anthropology, that kind of what is my relationship with God bleeds over into how I actually live my life, whether it's not stealing, not murdering, not committing adultery, not lying All these different things are not a day of the week.
Speaker 2:And I think the point is, when we look at the Sabbath, it was something he instituted that they needed to have in an ongoing way, built into the fabric of creation itself with the way that God orchestrated the week. The six plus one, seven equals completion, the full number, what it's supposed to be. This idea bleeds over into it to help people understand Sabbath is not just something you do weekly, it's actually an ongoing thing. You need to practice with a great emphasis on it in one particular time to make sure you do this. So I do think, should everybody have a day where they are resting 100%? I think that is absolutely. You should totally do that. I think the commandment is filled in Christ. I think the principle still exists for us today, which is why most people would say the Lord's day is our day to really emphasize that and look at it and I would say, totally, that's great. I wouldn't necessarily call it the Sabbath. I would say the principle of the Sabbath is being used there in that particular way.
Speaker 3:If I can just run through a text real quick, just Colossians, chapter two, verses 16 through 17. I can just run through a text real quick, just Colossians 2, verses 16 through 17. Ironically enough, justin and I used this when we met with a church of Sabbatarians who were picketing outside of our church and we had a debate with them. And what did we do? We almost convinced one of them to join us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they ran off because they were like he's like stop convincing the people I brought with me oh, it was funny.
Speaker 3:But Colossians 2.16, verse 17, is really where we get the transposition, you can say, of this law. Therefore, let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ and really what the distinction here is is that we have function and form going on here. The outward expression has changed of the Sabbath. Christ is that outward expression for us now, but the function, the essence of the sabbatical laws still apply to us very much so. So, just as you're saying, we can observe a different day, people can choose a different form in which they practice this, but the function of it, the essence of it, still needs to be the same. And just real quick, if at some point we can talk about the ramifications of us abandoning sabbatical practices just beyond individuality.
Speaker 2:Dude dive in Okay.
Speaker 3:I'm just going to jump into it. I think that we have a society that is built that is completely man-centered now to where you cannot stop a plant from running nonstop. We have built an entire system that is so dependent upon man that nobody can actually rest and take a day off. And it's quite fascinating because what you saw with Israel is that, because the Sabbath was so ingrained in their society, they could take a year off where they would not have to cultivate the land. The sabbatical laws extended to the earth as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Literally whole patches of ground. They're like it gets a Sabbath In the seventh year, the sabbatical year.
Speaker 3:They were meant to leave the ground alone so they could recultivate.
Speaker 2:Do you know there's a big concern about this right now. Yeah, there's a massive concern about ground itself. We are using, let's say, grounds that are being farmed to their extent, we're not giving them any time to recover and they're seriously concerned that in the years to come we're actually going to have a massive deficit in food because we're not allowing the ground to rest Wow, going to have a massive deficit in food because we're not allowing the ground to rest Wow. So interesting to me, like there's just a natural implication there of not doing it. And the same way that you don't sleep, you start hallucinating and turn into a jerk.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, and actually end up dying if you don't sleep long enough.
Speaker 3:It could kill you. There's huge ramifications. I mean, the seventh year, too, would also influence debts. Seventh year, too, would also influence debts. So, like you in other places of the laws and the case laws, you were not allowed to go into loans. You weren't allowed to entrust the example, the case that's given, is a homeless man entrusting his coat to someone else, and the reason he was not allowed to go into that kind of debt is because it threatened his very livelihood.
Speaker 3:So, with regards to people entering into loans, where, if you couldn't pay off the loan and you went bankrupt, if all of your assets would be liquidated by the amount that you are in debt, that's a wicked loan, that's usury, as the Bible would call it.
Speaker 3:But what's fascinating is that the sabbatical laws also protected you from debt because people you couldn't go into a loan that would be with you the rest of your life, to where you would basically, by biblical standards, be considered enslaved by the amount.
Speaker 3:So in the seventh year, your debts were paid off, your debts were freed, and so obviously there's a picture of forgiveness as well and a picture of the gospel. But just think about how, if we were to implement these things into society, even into the system in which we run, every seven years all the debts would be forgiven. I mean it would change the way that we live. I mean you're talking about a society that would be, so you could say, self-sufficient to the degree to where we actually design our industry, to where we can let it be for a while and then we can actually recover. We make a more self-sustainable system because we're not only trusting in God to run things and to run the earth as he has, but also the ability for society to be at rest and to be at peace and take a step back from destroying the land.
Speaker 1:Really easy to abuse, though, too, like if I knew my debts were going to be at rest and to be at peace and take a step back from destroying the land. It's really easy to abuse, though, too, like if I knew my debts were going to be paid in seven years and I just rack up as much as I could.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the thing is you wouldn't be allowed to, because people, if they knew the seventh year is coming here's where you're at would not give you a loan, because they also would not want to forgive a ton of debt on purpose. So it made people have to be careful about what they were asking for, when they were asking for it and be more thoughtful so that they're actually paying attention to their life and what they were doing and how they were living. And then, when they were big mistakes made, somebody ran on really hard times. There was a drought in these last two years. If that seventh year hit, there was a forgiveness portion of it too, where it's like we're going to start fresh, and I think it really was a wonderful way to think about how we should do life.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, so if you get into the civil aspect of the law itself and how these things should be applied to society states, all these things, I wouldn't say, oh, the Sabbath is just, it's just a spiritual thing. No, there's implications that go across all kinds of things in society that we would want to implement in a very literal way to honor God and what we're doing, but ultimately it's a representation and a picture of Christ and our ultimate rest in Him. But I love that you brought that up, because there's a lot of implication about how that would play out in a society today and how it would actually make things a lot better than where they're actually at currently. Now, can I bring something up about that? Oh, josie, do you have something else you want to say?
Speaker 3:The last thing I would add is that, again, I'm not saying here that we would one-to-one implement it, just like Israel had it.
Speaker 2:General equity.
Speaker 3:Yeah, general equity the form, the spirit of it, the essence of it is an extremely wise principle and it's built into the very fabric of creation. That's why over-cultivating the soil that you have destroys it and why we just discussed, obviously, that we're looking at droughts and crop issues moving forward into the future, but it's built into the fabric of creation and every single biblical principle that God gives us. There is a depth of wisdom there that I do not think that we have expounded from the scriptures, and I think it would be very wise for us to continue to look at the ramifications of these laws and how they would actually affect our society today. And I would argue better, our society today. But go ahead.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. That's super good man, I love this. So that's super good man, I love this. I'm going to throw something out here, too, with regard to Sabbath and our tendency to overdo it or not rely on God or be ongoing to the point where we're draining the ground of its nutrients because we just won't give things a rest. This is Edmund Burke.
Speaker 2:Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites. Disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites Okay. In proportion as their love to justice is above the rapacity. In proportion is their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above their vanity and presumption. In proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good in preference to the flattery of knaves.
Speaker 2:Society cannot exist unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere, and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. This means that the more there is within a person, the less chains you need. The less there is within a person, the more chains you need. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters. His point is, if you don't have a regulative principle strong inside of you, then you will be made a slave by the reality of things outside of you. If you have a strong desire to control yourself and live in discipline and rely on God, let the ground rest, put down the work for the day, quit doing this, then you will find in the eternal nature of things themselves. They will make you rest, they will make you sit, they will make you lie down. I bring it up in Psalm 23. He makes me lie down in cream pastures because if I can't lie down on my own, he will make me do it. You'll get sick, you'll get something will go wrong.
Speaker 2:It is built into the fabric of reality that Sabbath is a necessity. And to your point, you begin to see how we're unable in our society today to do rest. We don't know how and we've replaced rest with self-help because we think distraction is better than actual peace. And this is ultimately because if Christ is your rest, then he's at the center of everything and you actually know how to put some things away and hang out and focus on what actually matters and do the right things. In our society we don't have Christ at the center. Who's at the center? We are so. What do I worship on Sabbath, now, when it becomes necessary myself? It's entertainment. It's at the center. We are so. What do I worship on Sabbath, now, when it becomes necessary Myself? It's entertainment, it's self-help, it's those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly so. It's important. So some people and I would put myself in this category suck at putting work away. Not good at it. I talk to my wife about it all the time. I have to downshift, like with a distraction, oftentimes to get myself to function the way that I am supposed to and pay attention to my kids, pay attention to what's going on, pay attention to my wife's heart, spend time in the world Like I'm good at it Sometimes. Sometimes I'm not good at it.
Speaker 2:There is a large group of people in the United States that are on the other side of the spectrum, who do not like work. They don't like doing anything, and I would say it's really important to notice what it says in the beginning of this before it gets to everything else. It says six days you shall labor and do all your work. The seventh day you rest. So at least one large portion of this commandment is telling people you need to work six days, do something, you're working, you're doing stuff, and it's funny to me because even in our culture we do well. Five days of work, two days I'm off, and actually the Bible is saying well, at least one of those days that you're off from your occupation. If you live here in the States, and that's your Western world and that's your flow, one of those days you're working at home, you're doing stuff, you're cleaning, you're putting stuff together.
Speaker 1:You're fixing things. You still have those responsibilities, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people punt on it, man. Yeah, I mean, when it talks about the sloth, especially in Proverbs, it's like you go by his house it looks like crap, the fence is broken. We are supposed to work, we're made to work. Work is not a bad thing, and I've read a lot of books on Sabbath, even books like the Ruthless Elimination of Hurry, which I don't want to get into. But the picture is, yes, we need rest.
Speaker 2:I would say we are an anxious, overworked society with a deep hole and a desire for holiness, and we've replaced Christ with ourself, and so we can't get rest and we're just turning things up all the time and the bill comes due at some point and it's not going to go well, and we're distracting ourself with entertainment from the destruction that is going to come if we don't get this under control. But there's a lot of people who don't want to work, they don't want to put time in. They don't want to put time in, they don't want to do those things, and they're constantly looking for rest the rest of the week, all the time, because they're constantly filling the rest of their time with entertainment too. You know what I mean, or distraction, or other times. Right, it's Thessalonians. If a man doesn't work, he's not supposed to eat.
Speaker 3:I think of Nietzsche. Normally I don't quote him, but it just brought a quote of his to mind. Under peaceful conditions, the warlike man attacks himself. And I'm like that is so true. If you are at war in yourself and you do not have the peace of God, when you sit still and you have that restful condition, you have that time of rest. You assault yourself, you assault your own mind. There is no peace Again. There is no rest for the wicked.
Speaker 1:Totally, totally. So. What's a good practice, then, as a Christian? If Sabbath is something we bring with us every day, what are some moments in our lives we'd be like okay time to chill, I would say, not with distraction, like we've been talking about either, but something that's actually godly rest.
Speaker 3:Yeah, as far as godly rest goes, I think, first off, sleeping is good. You get a lot of sleep.
Speaker 2:You're not going to be helped anybody if you're just continually tired, wouldn't you say, if you suck at sleeping, it's because you're not trusting God?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're not trusting God. The wicked cannot sleep because he is staying up thinking about all the things that he has to do and how he has to keep the world spinning. The Christian can, because the Christian's like you know. God, you're sovereign, everything's in your hand. I can actually rest mentally and putting yourself in that mindset. I think it's an intentionality to meditate on what's good, to focus your mind on God's abilities and not your inabilities. If you're focusing on your inabilities, there's no rest and you're tormented. But if you're focusing on the abilities and how big your God is, it puts your heart at rest because you realize how powerful he is. I mean, you can always Jarred Neal, pastor Jared Neal.
Speaker 3:At this point he said something so profound that really changed the course of my life. He's like you can always ask the question what if? And just him saying that, what if I did this? What if I did that? What if I had a different wife? What if I have, you know, a different job? You can always run down that rabbit hole and the truth is that you're actually trying to determine your future. You are trying to be the God of your own destiny, divine your future. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3:And so when you think that way it's unhealthy. There's an intentionality to say no, it's not about what. If it is, what has God done? What will God do? Who is my God? And that is what truly is going to give you rest, I think, from that mindset. That is then how you catapult into everything else that you would do to honor God Worship obviously praising the Lord, turning on some worship music and praising him, focusing your mind on him, spending a ridiculous amount of time in prayer and that doesn't mean just like I got to be saying something constantly and keep asking God for stuff. Sit in the silence, sit in the silence.
Speaker 2:That's so good, I think, yeah, getting good at shutting your mind off for a minute and I don't mean by filling it with something else, I mean get your brain to shut up. God speaks in the discipline of silence. He does. That's good. I also want to touch on covenant renewal, just briefly, okay, and I'm not going to get into all the implications of that, because there's a whole world that we could get into. There is something special that happens when you put aside everything else that you're doing and you come together with the covenant people of God and you praise and you worship the Lord together. God not salvific grace from God, but a very real grace from God that is given to those who take time to worship in the covenant community that you cannot find in entertainment or vacation or whatever else you think your weekend is for. When you come together with the covenant people of God and worship and praise the Lord together and serve the body of Christ and love one another and do relationship with each other the way that we're supposed to, something special happens when you do that with your family. It's a beautiful thing that produces rest in you in a way that other things don't.
Speaker 2:Most people think I'm going to rest by getting away to the mountains. I'm going to rest by going to Moab. I'm going to rest by getting away to the mountains. I'm going to rest by going to Moab. I'm going to rest by taking this cruise. And what you're talking about usually is more of a type of entertainment and distraction than a focusing on who your rest actually is. And I'm telling you, when you do that, you're putting yourself in the center of what will give you rest instead of Christ, who is your rest in the center of your life. And so when I talk about this idea of covenant renewal is what I mean is hey, god made a covenant with you and said listen, I'm going to be your God, you be my people, I will be your rest, I'll care for you, or I'll take care of you. When you come back together with the covenant people of God and pray and renew your heart and remind yourself who he is and receive communion or whatever that looks like, what you're doing is renewing the reality that God said I got you, I'll take care of you, I will be your rest. And I would just tell you on your weekends that one of the best things that you can do is worship together on the Lord's day, restore your heart, get to a place where you're actually resting in Christ and allowing him to be the fullness of what he's supposed to be for you.
Speaker 2:And we punt on it all the time. We dodge that we think it's a box to check, not an infusion of grace, and I really think it is. I think people punt on that a lot and so I would say, yeah, do that, like go worship together, praise the Lord, make a point of that and do it with other people. And I would even add to that there's a tendency for us, when we think about rest, to think about isolation and not community. And I would say, actually rest is found with the people of God, doing covenant things of God under the authority of God, in the presence of God, like that's a good thing that you want to do.
Speaker 2:And when we think about rest, we tend to think about get away from everybody else, need to be by myself. Give me a game, give me a whatever I'm like. Look, I'm not against entertainment, have fun. Look, I'll pop open Skyrim once in a while still, and I'll get after it. Nothing wrong with that, go for it. I do think.
Speaker 2:But that's not necessarily where your rest is. And you need to know your rest is. And you need to know your rest ultimately is with the people of God in the presence of God, worshiping our glorious God. And how do I know this? Why would I say this? Well, because, ultimately, your final rest is that. So, if you want to know, hey, what is rest actually? How does this end? Well, in the presence of God, with the people of God worshiping the Lord Christ himself. And so if you want a picture of that now and how do I tap into that now, go to church, be with the people of the Lord, open the book, worship and praise him now, because that's a part of how that is going to be absorbed, taken into your spirit, refreshing you in this moment before you get to that final resting place.
Speaker 3:One thing that I would like to tag on here would be, along with bringing people in and worshiping communally before God as the bride of Christ, something else we've lost in society is, I think, feasting and festivals Like we cannot. If we have an event, it needs to last X amount of time. It needs to be like an hour, two hours even. You know, I just recently got married and we were, like, you know, half an hour for this, half an hour for this, and when you look at what they did in the Bible, I mean they were feasting for weeks.
Speaker 3:And I'm like dude we're on the precipice of Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2:How come Thanksgiving isn't a week? I know dude.
Speaker 3:Well, I would argue for it to be all the way up until Christmas, and then we one.
Speaker 2:And we feasted all over again.
Speaker 3:I love the concept of feasting and I think that we've really lost our heart with that. I think these Sabbaths are not these melancholy days where you get up and you put on sackcloth and ashes and you go before the Lord and you're really downcast. These are meant to be days and times of joy and happiness, and that's the point, and I think festivals are a great expression of Lord. This is everything you've given me Good drink, good food, good friends and we're here together and we are worshiping and we are centering our hearts on the Lord.
Speaker 2:Well, that's the difference between. Do I see having to eat food as a frustration or do I see it as a glorious good that God has given to me? The rest is the same thing. Do I see it as a frustration or as a good thing? Do I see going to church as a frustration or do I see it as a beautiful thing that I get to do? And it all depends on who's the center of everything. If it's you, you will see everything as a frustration, because it's stuff that you have to do and you hate that. Or you see it as God has given me these wonderful gifts to remind me who I am, who he is and where rest is found. Now it's a joy, yeah.
Speaker 3:Or you're condemning yourself because you can't do it Amen and you feel like you need to fix something, but you can't fix it.
Speaker 2:So, therefore, you condemn yourself. Yep, that's the other side of it.
Speaker 1:Thanks guys, all right, man hey everybody.
Speaker 2:Find your rest in your life Awesome. Thanks for being here bud. Have a good week, everybody. All right?
Speaker 1:Catch you all next time.
