Navigate Podcast
Welcome to Navigate, we are two long term friends doing life and ministry together. I got tired of the same ole answers when I started looking for help when it came to my walk with God. So together we go deeper than most would on topics that most people have heard or were taught but never fully understood. It is our way of simplifying concepts that we may have over complicated throughout our lives. Bringing theology and life experience into each episode. It is our hope and desire to help Navigate your Christian walk with you
Navigate Podcast
Breaking Generational Chains
Tjbhpodcast@gmail.com
Ever wondered if you're carrying the weight of your ancestors' mistakes? In this thought-provoking episode of Navigate, Tim and Justin tackle the controversial concept of generational curses and blessings, offering clarity on one of Christianity's most misunderstood teachings.
The conversation begins by examining biblical references to hereditary sin, from the disciples questioning Jesus about a blind man's condition to God's statements about "visiting iniquity to the third and fourth generation." But rather than settling for simplistic answers, the hosts dig deeper into what these passages truly mean for believers today. They thoughtfully distinguish between supernatural "curses" and the natural consequences of growing up in environments shaped by destructive patterns.
What emerges is a nuanced understanding of how family history influences our spiritual journey without determining our destiny. The hosts share powerful insights about Christ specifically coming to break curses, wearing the crown of thorns as a visible symbol of His authority over every generational pattern of sin. For listeners struggling with family cycles of addiction, anger, or other destructive behaviors, this episode offers both practical wisdom and spiritual hope.
The conversation also explores the crucial role of mentors in spiritual growth, challenging the common misconception that mentors should be comprehensive guides rather than specialists who help in specific areas of need. Tim and Justin emphasize that righteous living creates pathways for blessing even in darkness, while acknowledging that our daily choices matter more than our ancestry.
Whether you're wrestling with your family's spiritual legacy or simply seeking to understand biblical teachings on blessing and cursing, this episode provides thoughtful, scripture-grounded perspectives that avoid both oversimplification and mysticism. Listen now to discover how Christ offers not just forgiveness but a completely new identity and spiritual bloodline to every believer.
guys, welcome back to navigate. It's been a minute, it's been a bit hi, justin what's up, my brother? How you been. It's been a while, uh, good been busy.
Speaker 2:There's some stuff in the works.
Speaker 1:People been cranking yeah, yeah, we're gonna do an episode pretty soon probably.
Speaker 2:Probably the next one we drop. Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1:Yeah, until then, stay tuned, we're going to continue. Topics by Tim. Yes, which is what I should have named this podcast.
Speaker 2:Topics by T.
Speaker 1:Yep After four years, after four.
Speaker 2:It's just. Tim's cynical topics session no Tim's cynical topics session no, tim's therapy. It's been a counseling session for all of us that everyone's invited to.
Speaker 1:And I haven't learned a thing. I'm just kidding, just kidding.
Speaker 2:Neither have I. I'm just here.
Speaker 1:Hit a button. That's right, that's right. I'm just kidding. I've enjoyed this actually, but yeah, we got some information coming. Justin's got some big things ahead his way, so stay tuned, yep.
Speaker 2:It's going to be fun. Yeah, we'll talk more.
Speaker 1:In the meantime, I have a topic for you. Okay, hit me. And this is something I've kind of never understood and I don't know if I believe so clarify some things for me.
Speaker 2:Okay, it's the idea of uh, basically like bloodlines um generational sins Okay, Generational sins, generational curses, blessings Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:I've heard these terms because didn't Jesus get asked the same thing by the Pharisees Um the sins of your fathers? Know?
Speaker 2:well, they asked him a question. The disciples asked him a question about the, the paralytic man who sinned uh. You know that, or, or I think, actually I think it was a blind man who sinned uh in in john 9, this man or his parents right right that he's uh, you know that, that he's got this particular predicament, and he says neither but so that the glory of God might be manifest.
Speaker 2:Sure, you know what I mean. So that he would be put on display, which is a frustrating answer for people who are on a witch hunt. You know what I mean? Well, that kind of tells me there's no such thing as a generational curse.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's like a there's truths here, and then there's a way that you can take truths too far. All right, there's a whole conversation in our world today around races. I don't know if you know this, tim, but some people are like there's a whole podcast right now called Stone Temple Choir and their whole bit is basically that white people are more superior because we're not a cursed race. Wow, I mean it's like a whole James White just had a debate with some people on it.
Speaker 2:I mean it's pretty, it's weird, like there is a group of people that are legitimately like white supremac to break that curse and comes to bring hope and bring joy and bring restoration and renewal and all the things that come along with that. In this particular story in John 9, I think what Jesus is ultimately trying to do is to point out the fact that you're seeing versus how God wants to use brokenness and blessing and curse and what's happened in this world because of sin and whatever else to his own glory and his own good. So you have that story where he's like neither but because of this. But then in other circumstances, like I think it's in what is it? John 5? There's a story with the paralytic Tim where he talks to the guy and I think it's 38 years that he's been laying on that mat the paralytic.
Speaker 2:And he heals the guy and then he tells him go, sin no more, so that something worse might not happen to you. Yeah, okay, which is like this well, crap, okay. So is it my sin that is producing these things, or is it not sin that's producing these things? What gives? And only God knows what are the consequences of actual, let's say, a kind of curse that is on a bloodline or a family, versus what is the consequence of just sin in general, because we live in a fallen world and you have two of those things going on. And what had happened is they narrowed it. The disciples had narrowed it down to well, if something is wrong with someone, it must be because they're a sinner. All right, this is Job's friends. All right, job's friends are talking to him and the entire conversation is Job.
Speaker 1:What did you do?
Speaker 2:You must have pissed off God. You've done something. What did you do? Yeah, this must be your fault. And he's like I swear, this is not on me, I didn't do anything. And they're like well, we know that God is good Job and we know that God blesses people Job, and you are clearly afflicted Job. And so this now it's a witch hunt. Now we're going to find why this is the case.
Speaker 1:To me just a side note. That's a whole conversation with his friends. It's just to me a modern day Bible study.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh. Yeah, when somebody comes up, you have the Bible study circle. You know where. Somebody comes up and says okay, I have this question, you know. And then everybody takes their turn in the circle giving.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or it's the simple answer of well, Jesus is the answer Pray more.
Speaker 2:And here's the deal.
Speaker 1:Like those are Part of the reason I started this podcast. Yeah, I got tired of that. Those same answers, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like somebody. Please break this down. Yeah, the thing is, those answers aren't necessarily wrong. They're not wrong but they're not helpful.
Speaker 2:Oftentimes they need handles and again, in certain circumstances, it's not even that somebody has done something or that their parents did something. It's that we live in a fallen world, replete with this idea of righteousness producing blessing for you and your offspring and your home, and that wickedness produces really bad things Like they. Literally stuff follows you, and we should be thoughtful and not say in the moment, well, it's one or it's the other. We should be weighing the entire Bible and what it says about this, and so, in any given circumstance, if a righteous person is experiencing affliction, our question shouldn't be well, is he really righteous? First, you know what I mean. The question should be okay how do we support this person? How do we help them? How do we encourage them? And how do we help them? How do we encourage them and how that pans out. How do you help, encourage, support somebody is finding out what the root of the actual issue is and helping them walk through it, and in some circumstances, the root is unclear.
Speaker 1:So can you like to live righteously? Could the sins of my grandfather or my father prevent me from pursuing that?
Speaker 2:I think, in one sense, yes, in another sense, no. All right, because there is election, right. So whoever God chooses and regenerates is ultimately going to be saved, even if the whole world threw everything that it had at him. Why? Because Christ is more powerful than whatever you have going on in your life at any given moment. In another sense, yeah, does somebody who's born in freaking Africa you know that's in an area that's worshiping pagan gods and sacrificing chickens and lambs and doing witchcraft? Is that person less likely to be saved? Yes, yeah, like that's just an environment that it's going to be incredibly difficult for.
Speaker 1:For bring it down even lower. I'm thinking of, like, people who are alcoholics maybe. Yeah, they saw that with their parents, they saw that with their grandparents, whatever it might be well, you know yeah, I mean, does that it?
Speaker 2:it's. It's clear from a genetic standpoint that people with alcoholism in generations to come will continue to struggle with alcoholism, and you got to be careful about that. We talk about people with an addictive personality. You know what I mean. It's just I'm wired a little bit more to rely on stuff that I shouldn't, or to be looking for an adrenaline rush in the wrong places.
Speaker 1:It's the same with anger. Guilty of that, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's the same with anger, it's the same with depression, it's the same with a lot of things. Now, most people struggle with all of that, but if you give in long enough, you can create strongholds, and strongholds become habits in your household and then household habits become generational things that people carry with them. So there's like the Thomist approach to this or Thomas Aquinas, like there's the naturalistic explanation which is if you live in a particular way, particular things are going to follow not just you but your family. Why? Because your parents are the ones who help instill identity in you and who you're watching and walking with and following with. It's pretty hard to break off from that and to do something totally different. It happens to the grace of God and there's tools and there's opportunities, and there's tons of stories of people wanting to break cycles and getting to break cycles. But without a lot of intentionality and, in a lot of situations, an act of God, man, it can be really hard to break free from those things. And so, jesus, the beginning of the Bible starts with blessings and curses. Okay, jesus creates the universe and all of these things and flat earthers, don't get mad at me for saying universe, get over it. He creates all this stuff and he says it's good. There's a blessing in that. This is good, this is a good thing. When Adam and Eve are created, you know what I mean? This is a very good thing that you know there's two of them.
Speaker 2:And then Genesis 3 hits and what happens? Curses, curses, cursed is the ground because of you, thorns and thistles that will produce all the days of your life. You know, you'll eat of the sweaty of your brow. From the dust you are to the dust you shall return. And he doesn't curse Adam there, right, he curses the ground. Curses the ground because of you, yeah. And then Eve, right, hey, childbirth is going to suck. Yeah, uh, childbirth is going to suck and you're going to have a natural tendency to rule over your husband.
Speaker 2:Why, well, what happened in that instance is that she wasn't submitting to her husband, but actually was listening to the devil. And uh then takes what the devil gave her and gives it to her husband. Yeah, all right. So well, what do we have there? A picture of of a, uh, a person not doing what they were supposed to be doing and instead taking somebody else's covering an idea and then bringing it into their marriage. All right, and then? So what is the curse? Well, that's actually going to be something that you're going to struggle with now. There's going to be a tendency for you, eve, to want to get information from another place and still rule and reign and try to tell your husband what he should be doing. In some of these circumstances and that might piss everybody off I've made a thousand balancing statements on this podcast. Go back and listen to the others.
Speaker 1:I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 2:But there's a, there's a, there's a picture there of something else that's going on, and what we know in the gospel narrative is that Jesus is the one who is who is overcoming the curse. He's the one with the thorns and thistles buried into his head when he's crucified on the cross as a symbol that he's actually reversing every curse. It's the reconciliation of all things, and those who want to live under the curse can live under the curse. But those who want to live under the blessing now have a way to live under the blessing where before it was incredibly it was hard to do that from a, from an identity standpoint. You could only do it from a the grace of God and him providing an environment where you wouldn't blow it up.
Speaker 2:Right, all right. So the, the law, is a great tool to keep people, let's say, in the car while they're driving through the nasty neighborhood, but it's not going to change, say, in the car while they're driving through the nasty neighborhood, but it's not going to change the people in the car. Jesus came to change the identity of the people in the car while you're in the nasty neighborhood. So now I'm not just not running into and engaging with these people, but I'm actually not one of them entirely.
Speaker 1:You know, I see that not just with our parents too, because I think when you're growing up you see your parents do stuff and you oh I must be okay to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, talking about the generational stuff, yeah, like how many kids were exposed to pornography at like seven and eight years old, sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then I'm thinking like, even when I was a new Christian right, and we would talk to different youth pastors and stuff, adult, I remember doing those and hearing them like swear. You know, I'm a new guy, right, so I'm like, oh, so it is okay to swear, cool yeah.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. It's like he's doing. He's been a Christian for how long?
Speaker 1:Longer than me, so he must have figured something out that I don't understand yet, and so I think, as responsibility for ourselves too, for us Christians, how we go about with people watching us as well about with people watching us as well.
Speaker 2:Well, just break down what you said for a second there too, because what you said was somebody that I trust and respect and is supposed to know about this stuff basically shared, through how he was behaving, what is acceptable identity for somebody who's supposed to be doing these things? Right, yeah, right, that's an identity move. So you didn't just look at him and say I guess these are the rules or not the rules. You looked at that person as somebody that you believe you're supposed to follow and said, okay, this must be part of the path. Yeah, you know what I mean? It's a deeper thing. It's the same with your parents and your friends and all these things. People can influence you. Ultimately, the word of God is the one place that we should be going to find clarity and hope on these things. It is also the one place that most people seem to avoid. Tell me why, tim. Why do?
Speaker 1:people not read the Bible. I think it's the same with people and theology. They'd rather read a book by a guy who did all the work and then just copy him.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's like AI before AI existed.
Speaker 1:I'd rather just talk to a pastor who's read the Bible about the problem, instead of me going out and figuring out the problem myself?
Speaker 2:well, it's good to find mentors and helpful people along the way, but the thing is, we should also be bouncing it off of the word itself, right and?
Speaker 1:if your mentor what I'm saying, why do the work when I know somebody who's already done it can just just lazy. Yes, yeah, yeah, it's google is what I would call it people who read john calvin and become a calvinist, but it's into.
Speaker 2:it's built into our nature to look to elders, right and smarter people than us, and want to learn, so it's not a bad thing to like dude. We literally do a podcast where we try to break things down for people, help them understand it God help us.
Speaker 2:Um, but everything that we're talking about should be bounced off of the Bible. Yeah, and everybody. If we have questions and stuff about this, we really should be going to God and checking. Yeah, and the very fact that you're like, oh, this guy swears it must be okay, there should be a check first that says, huh, I wonder what the Bible actually has to say about that. What is what was the context in which it was used? About that, what is what was the context in which it was used? There should be like a a stop gap between espousing habits you know what I mean Before we just jump in wholeheartedly and give ourselves to those things.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what I thought a mentor actually was. Not that sense, but like if I'm reading the Bible I don't understand the passage. I could text like it was you for a long time.
Speaker 2:You and I used to text back and forth all the time yeah, all the time, you and I used to text back and forth all the time Like what the heck is he talking about?
Speaker 1:What does this mean To me? That's a mentor. Is me reading going to them be like I don't understand this? This is what I think it means. How do you interpret this, dude? I did that.
Speaker 2:I did that this morning. I was reading 1 Kings 8, and he's talking about giving forgiveness Lord, granting forgiveness to these people so that they would fear your name and I was trying to understand what the connection between forgiveness and fearfulness is like. Giving forgiveness to somebody, why would I fear God more if he forgives me? And I just think we have a fundamental misunderstanding about what forgiveness actually is and how that should create something in us. But I'm like, ah, I gotta, I gotta delve on that more. I'm not, I haven't nailed that down yet. Maybe it's a silly little thing and nobody else nobody else cares about that.
Speaker 2:But those, those things pop up in the Bible all the time and if you're reading it, you're going to hit stuff. You're like I don't know what that means. Man, I gotta, I gotta work through that. I have found that the Bible tends to answer its own questions the more you read it. Yeah, Uh, if I'm reading through the Bible, I'll hit a question in Job, and then I'll be reading in you know, uh, you know Galatians, or something later on, and I'm like, oh, this actually answers that question that I had.
Speaker 1:Those are great moments to have Like. I'll read something like that too, like wait, I've heard this before. Yeah, where have I heard this before? And I go back, you know, try to find it again.
Speaker 2:And then you start writing down all the little hyperlinks in your own. Bible with notes and stuff. I love that. I do it all the time. I feel like every Bible for me is like a journal of me trying like 30 Bibles and my kids can just look through those and be like, oh, he was wrong on that one.
Speaker 1:But you know, at least he was trying Right. You've gone back and like nope, I was wrong, there had a whole section.
Speaker 2:I remember I wrote a note in the margin and then I went back later and I had to like cross it out and I was like, wrong, yeah, I mean there's probably I can't think of anything at this moment, but I'm sure there's stuff. I've even said on this podcast before that I'm like, oh man, I don't know if I totally line up with that anymore. I mean, it's a growth process of walking in righteousness as clearly as you can and trusting God to guide you in the blessing that he's given to you. And mentors and mentors, listen to me are not just people. A couple words on this.
Speaker 2:Mentors are not people that make you feel comfortable. Mentors oftentimes make you feel a little bit uncomfortable because they're in a different place than you are. They're not as easy to connect with. You know what I mean, and that's almost frustrating. Like we want to hang out with people that we connect with and help us feel comfortable and like they understand us because they're in a similar spot. But the reality is, is people that are not in a similar spot to you might actually be in the spot that you're trying to get to, and, uh, it's uncomfortable precisely because they're actually the people that you should be spending time with and growing and learning from. Um. The other word about mentors is mentors are usually not comprehensive. They're they're specific. So everybody wants like.
Speaker 2:People say this thing, like who's your Paul and who's your Timothy, and I'm like it just doesn't count. It's like saying who's your Jesus, you know, and who's your Peter? Well, it's like, well, nobody's Jesus, nobody's going to be able to provide everything that you need in every area. There's a couple people who are going to be proficient in a couple of areas and we should look to those people in those circumstances. But that means that person is not like a relational father to you, as much as they were an incredible help in this situation.
Speaker 2:Less that I'm going to follow every aspect of that person's life, because that's less of a thing. Pastors are supposed to be closer to that. But even even pastors would admit most that I know are generalists. They have to be able to kind of talk and give wisdom in every area of life because they're ministering to people in every area of life. But even then that that makes them a generalist, not a specialist, you know. So, in in specific areas where you need specific help, you need specific mentors, um, and that that can unlock some stuff for you in difficult areas.
Speaker 1:But uh, for me it's more. I don't want to bother them because they're busy. They tell me all the time how busy they are.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or second I'm afraid if I text somebody a verse I don't understand, that in their head they're like this is basic Christianity, you moron.
Speaker 2:Good news is people don't talk to you the way that you talk to yourself in your own head Are you even saved. We generally have a far lower opinion of ourselves than other people do, and it's just the reality of things. Man and I think it was I just posted something on this but Dwight DL Moody, he literally said basically something along the lines of nobody has caused me more harm in my life than myself. You know, nobody's been a person it's like, yeah, that is that's accurate.
Speaker 1:That's been the fun about this podcast and I've had people tell me this all the time. One because of the questions I ask, which is very humbling, Thank you. But one person told me he he's like you ask the questions. I think of that. I would never want to ask justin, that's what people tell me. That sucks so bad. I promise I'm not a monster.
Speaker 2:I don't even. I don't even see myself as like, um, I don't know. None of us see ourselves the way other people see us. Yeah, right, I don. I don't see myself as some, like you know, erudite, put together, individual. I just love Jesus and I love the word and I'm trying to help other people work stuff out and it's yeah, I mean, there aren't stupid questions, although I would say sometimes people ask questions with assumptions that are underneath them that make the question a bad question and yeah, like.
Speaker 2:So just just be thoughtful. Like you said a second ago, tim, like sometimes you feel like you're going to waste somebody's time by asking a question or something and I would say, well, then, formulate the question before you ask it. You know, write the thing down. If you have somebody that you want to learn from, write the things down that you want to learn from them before you meet them, so that you don't do that thing that people do when they get up at, like, an open forum and they're like I, uh the thing, and they try to, like you know, work through it.
Speaker 2:It's just not that. Write it down, just just untangle your thoughts before you get there. That's at least a way to honor the person that you're trying to talk to and, man, something that I've been very blessed by and I notice and I've seen other people do when I'm asking questions is like have your phone out to take notes or have a pen and pad if you're old school to take notes. If you're talking to somebody and you actually want their information, it's not the moment that you're trying to capture, it's actually what happens after the moment that matters, and nothing means more to me than if I'm talking to somebody about something and trying to help them through something, that they're actually taking notes because that tells me they actually want to apply this, they actually want to help.
Speaker 2:That makes me want to help you more, because I'm not interested in making somebody feel good in the moment as much as I'm trying to actually help that person through the uncomfortable thing that they need to face. And I am not a I'm not a spiritual aspirin. You know what I mean. And I think a lot, of, a lot of people want to use pastors as spiritual aspirin and that's okay. Aspirin's good, but it's not going to. It's not going to solve the long-term problems.
Speaker 1:We have an episode called spiritual aspirin, so you guys go check that one out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, go go, give that a go.
Speaker 1:Getting back to a little bit more of the generational stuff. Yeah, Um, I kind of cut you off when you were talking about a righteous person who goes through something. We shouldn't be all judging them all of a sudden, right, it's like were they ever really righteous? And you know what you said.
Speaker 2:The Jewish system was so steeped in the idea of good people and bad people and blessed people and cursed people that they kind of left out the category for fallen world a little bit and spiritual warfare, Like those things, weren't nearly as integrated. In fact, if you read the Old Testament you don't hear a lot about demons. You don't hear now they're there Like implicitly. You can read in different circumstances.
Speaker 1:You'll hear like an unclean spirit did this or that.
Speaker 2:But it's like it's almost foreign, tim, when you get to the New Testament that Jesus is just casting out demons left and right, like if you read the Old Testament and then you just start reading the New Testament, you hadn't read it before. It's like where'd all the demons come from? Man? This got weird, like it was weird in Genesis 6. Haven't really heard about these things much like barely. And now I'm over here and it's like dude, everybody's got a demon. Like everybody's got something going on.
Speaker 2:It's all epic and I think in a lot of ways that's because behind the scenes all these things were going on, but it wasn't part of the categories that people were generally thinking with. It was cursed people, blessed people and again, that's a fair category, it's real, it's part of the Bible. It's just not the full picture. And so when Jesus comes, he doesn't just break the curse, he also disarms the rulers and authorities and principalities, he gives the keys to the kingdom, he unlocks basically the world for the gospel to go forward, which is why he says all authority on heaven and earth has been given to me. So, if you can imagine, the whole world is kind of locked down. There's demonic presences and entities that are ruling over all these different areas, and God's people are kind of at war with these wicked places, but they're not in a very real way. Until Christ comes and declares the world his again, they're not able to do what they were before. So you had this serious distinction light, darkness, good evil and all of that good evil and all of that. But the internal struggle that's going on with individuals and the legitimate, let's say, spiritual aspect gets so just amplified on a way higher level in the New Testament to help us understand a little bit more of what's going on. So when Jesus talks to these guys and he's like, look, it wasn't them, it wasn't him or his parents, this one happened so that God could be glorified. Well, what does that mean? Well, as a consequence of sin, this person's brokenness exists and God has allowed these broken things to happen so that ultimately he would receive glory as he redeems and brings all things back to himself. So that's kind of the answer in a nutshell.
Speaker 2:But yeah, you shouldn't walk into a situation and be like, well, if you have cancer, it's because you deserve it. If you have a wayward kid man, you screwed that up. Yeah, everybody screws up. There's no perfect parent right, but… there is a real sense in which the way that we live our lives and get passed down to the people around us. If your finances are in the shambles, your kids' finances are probably also going to be rough. If you were an abusive parent, there's a good chance that your kids are going to be abusers or abused, because that's the environment that we've created and taught them implicitly is normal.
Speaker 2:But I also think there's a spiritual aspect to this blessing too, because if you've grown up in a Christian home and you've had people praying for you your whole life, I think there's a greater tug. I think there's more legitimate angelic protection for, uh, christians Um, I mean, tim, I could tell you tons of stories about people walking into a house even before they were saved. When they were saved, in like a Christian environment and knowing in that instance I'm not supposed to be here, I got to go. They're not even like at a place where they even fully understand what's going on but know something is seriously off and they need to go. That's a blessing man. Go, that's a blessing man. That is angelic protection and, like God's servants, pushing you out of an environment that you're not supposed to be in and warning your heart. That goes beyond the conscience. The conscience makes you feel guilty. You know what I mean. Or is going to help you feel a little bit of shame where you need to, or is going to like remind you hey, don't do that. But sometimes it's beyond that. You're like I didn't do anything. I walked into a building. Why am I feeling this way?
Speaker 2:My father-in-law tells this story all the time of him hanging out with this girl and being over at their house and he says the whole time he just feels awful, like something. Something is jacked up and he goes into the room behind him, like, gets up, goes into the kitchen, which is kind of like behind the living room. Uh, like, like, gets up, goes into the kitchen, which is kind of like behind the living room, and uh, he says, uh, this girl's mom was doing tarot cards on the on the table behind him and she looked up at him and he said it felt like something was literally pushing me out of the house. He's like I don't even remember my uh, you know, like my feet moving, he said, is the girl was like why? Why are you freaking out? We're just watching a movie, and he said that she was in front of him, trying to push him, and literally it was like he was literally just continuing to move forward. She was like getting pushed out of the way.
Speaker 2:I think stories like that are interesting. I can tell you probably 10 of those of people who didn't even understand what was going on and and God moving in a way to like pull them out of an environment that they weren't supposed to be in, and I think that's that's blessing man. And in the same way, I think blessing, even brought into dark spaces, creates a lot of discomfort for the darkness. Let me read a. Let me read a Psalm to you, tim, that I was reading earlier today as well Psalm 112. All right, and this is an encouragement.
Speaker 2:And again, this is the platitudes right, this is the grand scale overarching right, wrong, good, bad, you know, evil, righteous. It's that spectrum, but it's worth reading. Here's what it says Praise the Lord. How blessed is the man who fears the Lord, who greatly delights in his commands. His descendants will be mighty on the earth. The generation of the upright will be blessed. Wealth and riches are in his house and his righteousness endures forever. Light arises in the darkness for the upright. He is gracious and compassionate and righteous. It is well with the man who is gracious and lends. He will maintain his cause in judgment, for he will never be shaken. The righteous will be remembered forever. He will not fear evil tidings. His heart is steadfast, trusting the Lord. His heart is upheld. He will not fear until he looks with satisfaction on his adversaries. He is given freely to the poor. His righteousness endures forever. His horn will be exalted in honor. The wicked will see it and be vexed. He will gnash his teeth and melt away. The desire of the wicked will perish.
Speaker 2:I really like this one because he continues to use this word forever, like three times in there. He kind of adds it in Like this is something that is going to happen on an eternal spectrum. And when you think about people that die in righteousness, who love God, literally they will continue on forever. Like it will be, man, this what you have stepped into. If you continue, you literally inherit it forever. This will be the outcome for your life. And like that's a promise for people, like if you continue in righteousness, the way that God has called you to, are there still evil tidings? Yes, but you don't have to fear them. Are there times of upheaval? Yes, but you'll be steadfast if you continue to trust in the Lord. His heart is upheld while they even while and he doesn't fear His heart is upheld, he will not fear. This idea is hey, if you continue to walk these ways, there are promises for you on the other side of that that you can have.
Speaker 2:In the same way, everyone who is walking in unrighteousness is promised death and destruction, and I think all of those things start before you die. You know that road to hell starts before you are in hell. That road to heaven starts before you're in heaven. This is why Jesus says pray things like on earth as it is in heaven. Why? Because that's supposed to start happening now in your life, not later.
Speaker 2:Heaven is the thing that gets, at some level, brought into existence through catalysts of the kingdom. People who know Jesus and want to embody what he has called them to do by the Spirit produce those things in their life, even in the midst of a chaotic world. And this is why we're sealed for the day of redemption. Literally, you will be covered until God ushers you home into his kingdom in general, and I think it's important that we realize that, so like the generational cursing and generational blessing thing at some level is a question of hey, are you walking towards hell or are you walking towards heaven?
Speaker 2:What are your steps telling about you? What are the words you're saying telling about you? Do you sound like hell or do you sound like heaven? Right now, what's your thought life like? What's the music you listen, what are the environments that you're finding yourself in? And if you're doing the things that you're supposed to be doing and crap hits the fan, then you should be asking the question first. Okay, did I make a right move? And this is why this is happening. Am I in the middle of a battle?
Speaker 2:Uh, and I love verse four, where he says light arises in the darkness for the upright. Light arises in the darkness for the upright, like if you you're going to find yourself in dark places. It doesn't say you won't find yourself in dark places. It's saying that light will arise for you in those places If you continue to walk in an upright way, which is incredibly difficult, by the way.
Speaker 2:Um, but I think the the blessing and curse narrative is real. There are wicked people who are walking a wicked direction, and when you grow up in wickedness and you're living in wickedness, it's very, it's a very difficult thing to just change directions and suddenly not do that anymore, right? In fact, most people who are wicked, um, only do things that are actually, let's say, quote unquote righteous if it helps benefit what they're trying to do in the first place, which is to say, continue to help my wicked lifestyle. This is why every godless philanthropist makes sure everybody knows when they're doing something nice to somebody. Get the cameras, get the news crew. You know what I mean. If it doesn't actually benefit me, I don't want to do it.
Speaker 1:It's those TikTok videos of here's a thousand dollars cash to you homeless person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's why it bugs me when, like I know everybody loves it. But it's like when athletes go out and they go to a store and buy a bunch of toys for the orphans, it's like, do it, don't tell anybody, I know, because now it's just about you again. You're like this is really going to up my PR. Like you can't be selfish and try to not be selfish at the same time. Those two things contradict each other. So righteousness, ultimately, is a consequence of walking with God, in the purposes of God, because you love God, and wickedness is ultimately walking in the way that I want to go because I love myself. And those two paths, man, they're not the same road and we all know it. Stories of, like David with Bathsheba, you're like ooh man, that was a got pretty dark there for a second pal Like it's okay for him to do it.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, it must be okay.
Speaker 2:And what's funny is like God blesses David, you know, in situations like where Saul's in the cave and he could have taken his head off and lets him live and what. What happens? Well, god blesses him and he gets to. You know, he gets to be the king at some level because he didn't take the path of darkness, he stayed in the blessing and walked in righteousness and God blessed him for what he was doing. But was he in a great spot where he would have been like this is great man. I totally feel blessed. Right now God's just filling my house with freaking wealth, like it says in this. No, he's living in a cave with a bunch of randos at the time.
Speaker 2:And that's kind of the bloodline idea Now, the idea of bloodlines in general, for like generational curse and blessing.
Speaker 2:I mean that does start at the proto-evangelium, which is obviously the serpent will have his head crushed and it will bruise his heel. I mean it starts there. There's going to be a dark side, there's going to be a light side and all of us who are born that's every one of us are born into sin, with a proclivity to go the wrong direction and, by the grace of God, many people are built with that proclivity, but born into Christian households that become more like Israel, that are at least able to guide you in the right direction and help you not step in places that you shouldn't, and curb some of those habits that you have, so that you would learn, through righteousness, the right way to go, even though it's not easier for you. And this is why you have a lot of kids who resent their parents. Well, you don't ultimately resent them because they're bad parents. You resent them because they wouldn't let you do all the wicked things that you wanted to do when you were a kid.
Speaker 2:That's very true, and it's like if your kids are pissed at you for doing the right things, dad, don't cave, you're not doing anything wrong. You're trying to help them live this out and their heart is fundamentally set against doing the thing that is better for them. Of course you're going to have some conflict, but once God redeems that person's heart, once he regenerates an individual, suddenly righteousness becomes joy to you and you see, oh man, I could have blown this up in my life, dude, I could have done this so much worse. If I would have done this, this would have happened.
Speaker 2:And then you start to see, okay, maybe my parents weren't so bad, you know, and maybe they were actually trying to help me out, but there's a season where what Romans eight says is clear like the flesh and the spirit are literally set against each other. And it says this so you cannot do that which you wish. And it tells you right there oh, my heart is wicked and God is trying to keep me from doing things that are going to put me on the path to hell and manifest hell in my life right now, and I hate that. Welcome to the lineage of Adam, welcome to the curse that all of us are born into.
Speaker 1:I heard once, and it always stuck with me now that I'm a parent too of that. You know you hear people say well, we grew up with the same parents. How are you different? And you know you hear people say like we grew up with the same parents, how are you different? And you know, and this guy was like you didn't grow up with the same parents yeah you know, like I, me and my wife were in a different place when our first was born yeah we're in a different place now that you know we have more money
Speaker 2:less money or more stress, less stress that's a great point, man, you know you interact with each other differently when.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I know that always just kind of stuck with me. That's totally true.
Speaker 2:Well and how, how look. Kids are a sanctifying agent in their parents' life, Right. So the first kid parents get sanctified a lot. Second kids parents are still getting sanctified because now they have two. You have three kids. You're getting sanctified through that process by the fourth kid it's like, well, they just got it so easy. No, they were just better at it by then.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:They're working on it too. I posted something one time I pissed everybody off. It was your children are not giving you a hard time. Today, they're just revealing your sin. Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:It's like it's.
Speaker 2:I mean, let's be real, Some days it's like, oh yeah, I'm finding out a lot about myself right now. I out a lot about myself right now and, yeah, it's hard. It's a hard thing, but there's definitely sanctification in that process. This is why, Tim, there's another narrative in scripture, too, of like this, the whole Nephilim conversation about the sons of God having children with the daughters of men and having these disgusting half-breed offspring, kind of thing. That's how we got the pyramids. You know, let's get Graham Hancock on the show right now. We're going to talk through this. It's going to be great.
Speaker 2:There is a. There's a picture that God is painting for us, even throughout scripture, of of what are called unclean spirits. Right, and these unclean spirits? Right, and these unclean spirits. It's talking about something that's perverted. It's a bloodline, it's something that was meant to be something else, that's shifted and changed, and now it's something else entirely. This is why Jesus tells the Pharisees your father is the devil. Well, what did he just do? He said all of you, ultimately, are actually serving a different King. You guys are unclean. The whole temple is unclean, the system is unclean because you guys are no longer doing these things to worship God. You guys are doing these things to build your own kingdom, which is what Satan is trying to do, Um, and that that is still very much active in our world today.
Speaker 2:So if somebody is born blind, your first question shouldn't be are you of the devil? You know. The first question should be like okay, is this a consequence of sin? How do I support this person? And support should look like finding out why stuff is happening in their life to be able to help them. And you don't always have a good answer. And we know all about Job because we are told in the infallible word of God. But let's be straight. If that story wasn't in the word of God, that shows up in a tabloid, everybody's like nah dude, God smoked that guy, you know. You know he was doing something shady. He had all this wealth and everything was good. You know he accumulated that wealth the wrong way.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean. Like our hearts, man tell us stories.
Speaker 1:That's hard for me, because even from the pulpit I've heard it. It's like oh then, that person must never been saved. Like you are not saved unless you know. And like I don't like those wordage, I really don't Because to me it's like I'm having a hard time and you're telling me I'm not saved and that's the whole reason why I'm having a hard time.
Speaker 2:I think, and in some cases like so, if you're exercising church discipline, Tim, one of the ways where it says that we're supposed to treat someone like an unbeliever.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:If they're under church discipline, there's no repentance. They're not doing anything, like I would say if somebody says they're a believer and God forbid they rape and kill someone. I am now going to question their salvation. I'm just going to going to question their salvation. I'm just going to. Something is okay. You've done something so egregious that I don't know at this point where you actually stand.
Speaker 1:Well, that's all time.
Speaker 2:Dang, that went by fast, All right. Well, guys, live in the blessing, okay, don't be dumb. Make good decisions, ask God for help where you need help, get mentors in your life to help walk with you where you're struggling or where you need unique help, and in every situation, ask yourself with the person or in your own life, is this a consequence of something that I am doing? And this isn't Satan messing with me, this is just me being stupid and continuing to take steps into the dark? Or, if this is legitimate spiritual warfare, that is not because you're doing something wrong, but there's just a consequence of the fact that you're living righteously and light attracts bugs, you know, so be praying through that. I hope this was a clarifying conversation to you and if you have questions, send them in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, All right guys. Catch you all next time.
