Navigate Podcast
Welcome to Navigate, we are two long term friends doing life and ministry together. I got tired of the same ole answers when I started looking for help when it came to my walk with God. So together we go deeper than most would on topics that most people have heard or were taught but never fully understood. It is our way of simplifying concepts that we may have over complicated throughout our lives. Bringing theology and life experience into each episode. It is our hope and desire to help Navigate your Christian walk with you
Navigate Podcast
Faith in Motion
What happens when you feel God calling you to something new? In this pivotal episode, host Justin reveals his plans to plant King's Banner Church in Tyler, Texas, bringing along a vision to revitalize faith in what he describes as "the buckle of the Bible belt." The announcement comes alongside news of his forthcoming book "Burn," described as a "field manual for catching spiritual fire."
Drawing from Matthew 9:36-38, Justin unpacks a powerful ministry principle: when we take spiritual responsibility through prayer, God begins giving us spiritual authority to act. This principle has guided his journey from small living room gatherings to now launching a church with 30-35 people. The conversation explores how we often pray for change but fail to recognize we might be the very answer to those prayers.
The hosts dive deep into what they call "event Christianity" – the phenomenon of Sunday services that look impressive but don't transform lives beyond the weekend. Justin challenges listeners to consider whether they've chosen "looking faithful" over actually exercising faith, noting how comfort has become the enemy of calling for many believers.
Perhaps most provocatively, Justin suggests that while many churches focus exclusively on reaching the lost, there's an urgent need to disciple those already in the pews: "If you want to reach the lost, start with raising up the found." He shares alarming statistics about declining church attendance in the Bible Belt, painting a picture of communities that know just enough about Jesus to miss knowing Him personally.
As Justin prepares for this transition, longtime podcast listeners can rest assured that Navigate will continue with co-host Tim and new team member Casey. The episode concludes with an invitation to follow the journey of King's Banner Church and support this mission to awaken what Justin calls "the sleeping giant of lethargic Christianity." For those feeling that nudge toward their own next step of faith, this conversation offers both challenge and encouragement to move beyond comfort into purpose.
Check out Kingsbanner.org
guys, welcome back to navigate justin. What is up, bro? How are you buddy?
Speaker 2:I am, uh, somewhere between a unicorn and um a couch potato. You know, somewhere in that, somewhere in that zone mystical, but still a little bit disoriented okay that's the potato part. Oh yeah, okay, yeah, to me that's how that works out, so you asked we yeah, you're right, I should have learned. I mean, I can give you different categories.
Speaker 1:I've got uh we got casey with us too. Hey guys, how's it going? Casey's with us. Um, last episode we did with the generational curses, sins one. Yep, we mentioned some. Um, do you want to just jump in real quick on that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, happy to. So, um, I am going to be planting a church uh, actually out in Texas in the next couple of months. Me and my family are moving out there with a group of about 30 or 35 people that are wanting to come and get stuff off the ground. We're pretty pumped about it. It's going to be called King's Banner. King's Banner, so if you guys want to check it out, kingsbannerorg. We've got a website going, got a bunch of stuff set up and I've just been running around talking with people like a madman and networking and making trips out to Texas and looking at all the opportunity and potential for what God wants to do down there. So, pretty pumped about it. And if you like the podcast, you like the content that we put out, I'd love for you guys to stay tuned for the stuff that's going on there. Yeah, and then, on top of that, I'm going to have a book published, I think in December. Wow, which should be super fun. Which one? I wrote four books at the beginning of this year Tim.
Speaker 3:Oh, is that all.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Technically six. Two of them are textbooks. Now, one of them was based off of a podcast series we did. Yeah, is that the one? So?
Speaker 2:we'll have a. The podcast series was based off of a sermon series that I did, yes, called 10 Rules for Life, because you don't need 12 rules, you need 10. Which?
Speaker 1:is what we did, I know On the Ten Commandments, so we walked through those.
Speaker 2:But we'll have a yeah, it's not in the publishing process, but the manuscript is done Awesome, and we'll be. Yeah, we'll hopefully have a book called 10 Rules for Life here in the, you know, in the coming future as well, which will be fun. That's awesome, be fun. But this, this, uh, this book coming out is going to be called burn. Um, it's all about, and tim.
Speaker 2:I think I talked to you about it before, but it was like the book that god put on my heart like four or five years ago. Um and uh, beginning of this year, I just sat down I was like I'm gonna start actually writing down the things that I've been working on and and codifying it. You know, getting it all put together and it's's been, it's been cool. I got a book on Malachi I did. I got a book on second Peter called the Genesis cycle. Um, burn, and then the 10 commandments, and I'm also working on another manuscript right now, uh, for a book on marriage that I'm trying to coauthor with my wife. It should be fun. That's interesting, like I know anything about marriage, it'll look.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what do you know about marriage?
Speaker 2:I don't know, buy the book, tell you, tell you all about it. But it's been a lot of fun, man, it's been. I feel like I've been doing ministry for basically the last 10 years and a lot of what's in these books is just a culmination of stuff that God has been putting on my heart, stuff that's blessed other people, and putting it in a package form where I can hand it to somebody. This book Burn will be fun because it's kind of a field manual for catching fire.
Speaker 1:That's the goal is you read these chapters? Spiritual fire, of course, yeah, exactly Literally.
Speaker 2:Here's how to do jihad. Yeah, don't do that, you're starting a church.
Speaker 1:You've got to watch what you say now.
Speaker 3:You know you're starting a church.
Speaker 2:You gotta watch what you say now, you know I was thinking about that.
Speaker 3:You kind of buried the lead. I'm starting a church also books.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, I didn't, even so I've been. I've just here's what's been going on my life, guys, for the last six months. I feel like god is taking all the things that have been going on inside of me for the last 10 years and it's just amplified them. Um, I've been doing ministry, I've been doing counseling, I've been training pastors, I've been teaching and preaching and strategy and all the things that go into that, and it's like in the last six months, all of it's been turned up to a 10. And so I am doing everything that I can right now to just follow Jesus into what I feel like he's doing. And it very much feels like this is stuff that God is doing, not stuff that I was intending to do on my own. It's just kind of erupting, which is cool but also absolutely crazy at the same time.
Speaker 2:But I am super pumped about King's Banner, super pumped about the church that we're going to be kicking off. I'm really excited. I've had a couple of opportunities with other churches and I've always, like, turned them down. I'm not interested. I'm for the mission, I'm for the fight. But the idea of going out and starting something new with a group of people where we're going to be able to plant something generational. You know what I mean that when I breathe out it will continue on after I'm gone. I'm just, I'm so excited about that, so really pumped.
Speaker 3:You kind of said something there that you know, talking about your life and like it's been super crazy and everything, and I think the word that came to me is you never understand the fear of God until you give him complete control over your life Hate that yeah, it's more like trust in God is terrifying, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, part of the reason Casey's here. You're going with him. I am indeed. Casey has been part of the same church we all worked for for many years now. What five for you.
Speaker 3:Three and a half.
Speaker 1:Is that all?
Speaker 3:Yeah, just before you started, same as me, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, interesting. I was like 1,280 days for you eschatology nerds out there Just kidding.
Speaker 1:Casey's been on the episode once before, I think Yep, yeah.
Speaker 3:April of 23. Wow, I went back and listened to it just so that I would not screw myself up. I've already found four ways. I've messed up already, so we'll pray for you.
Speaker 1:Thanks. We wanted to introduce you all to Casey because I am not going to Tyler Texas, as disappointing that may sound for myself, but he is in spirit, guys, casey will. The plan is is to continue to do this podcast remotely as best we can, but they're also wanting to expand this thing way more than what I've been able to do.
Speaker 2:We're really here with with it, so well, I think the goal is um to do twice a month. We'll continue to do what we're doing right now, which will be primarily audio and recording stuff, and it'll be fun, and then, twice a month, we're going to try to do some video stuff like we've been talking about for the last wanting to do two years. We've tried video.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of work, yeah, so pretty pretty pumped about yeah casey will be kind of spearheading it down there in texas, from what I understand, right that's the goal?
Speaker 2:I think so, and we have a. We finally have a behind the scenes guy.
Speaker 1:We do we have a quick shout out to what I was just saying before we started recording was I can't wait to just record my voice and just not have to deal with it anymore. No editing, no uploads, no corrupted files, no, nothing.
Speaker 2:If you guys don't know this, Tim happening to listen to my voice over and over again in the editing process has caused him substantial neurological problems.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's just it's aged him at least 40 years. Yeah, we're, we're praying for him, and this is also a disclaimer to anybody who's been listening to the podcast. Eventually, I will wear you down, yeah.
Speaker 3:Okay, that's very true, no, try listening at two times speed. That's a trip.
Speaker 2:I feel like it's doable. I feel like gosh, do I talk that slow? It drives me crazy. But I've heard other people like I wish you would just slow down. You know, and you're talking.
Speaker 1:I'm like I don't have it in me. I don't have it in me. Yeah, it's been a lot. It's been cool because we started this five years ago. Dang 2020 was our first episode, right in the middle of Rona Five years ago. That kind of blew my mind.
Speaker 2:Thousands of downloads later, we were trying to spread at the rate of the coronavirus, but the government wouldn't help us.
Speaker 3:It made it difficult. What spreads faster than the common cold?
Speaker 2:Apparently not Navigate Podcast, which was the upper room.
Speaker 1:The journey we've gone on.
Speaker 3:It's been nostalgic man Bread and wine logo and all that. It was upper room. Yeah, the journey we've gone on.
Speaker 1:It's been nostalgic man the old bread and wine logo and all that. It was a free picture I got. I wouldn't get sued for it.
Speaker 3:That's the important thing we kept the guitar rift.
Speaker 1:We did, oh, we did. Thank you, jeremy Strandford.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's got a little.
Speaker 2:I don't even know what you're calling that. A little jangle, that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 1:But real shout out to all of our subscribers too. You guys have helped this thing maintain for five years. This thing does cost money, so with your help it's been super generous, super helpful. So we hope to count on that going forward If not all good, honestly, but we're looking forward to what King's Banner Church does with this podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're really hoping to take everything that we've been doing and not downplay it, but really amplify it. And Tim, I got to tell you, dude, it's been freaking fantastic and I don't think we're going to be slowing down really.
Speaker 1:I think it's just going to be more like taking it and rolling with it. We're going to have coming back maybe a month.
Speaker 2:We'll see, but we'll be back at it, yeah, yeah the moving process will certainly be interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, buckle up, yeah but with that out of the way, I don't know if there's anything else we need to talk about, but I do believe you kind of wanted to talk about something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, about kind of your vision and why so I I think I just wanted to share a little bit about what. There's a text that God has kind of placed on my heart as I've been processing and working through stuff and trying to follow God and to where you know he's been calling me and my family and a bunch of other families at this point, and it's actually in Matthew chapter nine. So I wanted to go there quickly and it's just the end of Matthew chapter nine, but it's it's kind of a powerful text and starting in verse 36, it says this Jesus, seeing the people, he felt compassion for them because they were distressed and dispirited, like a sheep without a shepherd. Then he said to his disciples the harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. Therefore, beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into his harvest. And Jesus summoned his 12 disciples, gave them authority over unclean spirits to cast them out and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. And then he names who the disciples are in this passage.
Speaker 2:But it's cool watching this progress. Like Tim, I don't know, I mean you've been with me from like the beginning, man, yeah, but it seems like my ministry kind of started in the living rooms, you know, with like two or three people, and then we'd get to a point where we were like pulling furniture out and trying to fit everybody in.
Speaker 1:That was awesome.
Speaker 2:It was the best because we'd be up till like two in the morning just singing worship. You know people trying to speak in tongues that shouldn't be trying to speak in tongues and like all kinds of weird.
Speaker 1:You know let me say something that it started that way and then years later it turned into hey sam, I have to go do this. Can you cover for me seriously, like back in the kitchen days? I'm like sure, just go, go pray with these people.
Speaker 2:I know we're in the middle of a rush, but I I got to pray for this guy's leg to get healed.
Speaker 1:I know you have to feed 300 people, but I'm leaving. You're on your own pal. I'm going to go tell people about Jesus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Tim's been supporting my ministry from the very beginning in a myriad of ways, which seems to be the case with anybody that gets close to me long enough. Hey, I need your help now. Cool things are happening. Yeah, it's been wild.
Speaker 1:Casey, I tell you that for your benefit. Oh, I've seen it.
Speaker 3:I am not that new to this, Tim.
Speaker 2:I definitely experienced it already. Tim always gets mad because back in the kitchens I would make people, I would teach people how to do things, and then the second I would teach people how to do things, then I would ask them to do the thing that I taught them how to do and they're like well, I wanted the skill, but I didn't know I was going to have to use it.
Speaker 1:Don't have to work for it.
Speaker 2:One time Tim was really interested in how to make like lemon roses, and we had this thing. I was like I'm going to show you how to do it, but then I'm going to make you use it, and it was like garnishing stuff. And then the next week we had this whole seafood buffet that we were putting together. I was like Tim, I need 120.
Speaker 1:It wasn't like one or two at a time, it was like I need 100 by tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what it was wild. It was wild.
Speaker 3:I've never made one since Trial by fire.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a trial by lemon.
Speaker 2:It was a real lemon. Yeah, all right. But this, this text, just to just to take you there and I'll connect it to what I was just saying Jesus, in verse 36, it says he sees the people, and this word is is idon. It's not blepo, which is the word that means like to, to deeply look at something, to see through something. Idon is more like reading the moment, seeing what's actually happening, what the situation is. He's reading what's actually going on, and then it says that Jesus felt compassion for them because they were distressed and dispirited, like a sheep without a shepherd. These words, distressed and dispirited, literally mean like cast down, thrown out. If you can imagine somebody who's like lost a fight, you know what I mean. Like I've been, I'm losing, I'm down on the ground. That's the picture. And he says and they're like sheep, sheep without a shepherd. And then he says to his disciples the harvest is plentiful, but the workers are few, and he tells them to beseech the Lord of the harvest. Or I want you to pray. I want you to pray that God would send out workers into the harvest to get this thing done. All right. And so, like the, the clear progression that I see here, tim is Jesus is seeing that there is a there's a legitimate need, there's pain here, there's hurt here, and then he feels compassion for them.
Speaker 2:And I think, as Christians, we're supposed to have our eyes open so that we can see what Jesus would see Like we. We pray this prayer all the time. Lord, give me your eyes, you know what I mean, so I can see what it is that you want me to see, so I can pay attention. And I feel like God, reading through scripture, has very real opinions and emotions and even, I would even say, pain in his heart for some of the things that are going on in our world. And oftentimes we're dull, we're pretty myopic. We stay right in what we're looking at and what we're seeing.
Speaker 2:And I think if we pray more often, god, show me what it is that you're doing, show me what it is that you see. And I believe that God shows people his heart when they're actually willing to follow him into what he's calling them to do. And too often people are asking God, god, I want to know your heart, I want to know you more Well, if you do that, I want you to know it's going to take you down a roller coaster, if you actually want to know God. You don't know him in just the knowledge. You actually know him in the experience. I've experienced the Lord. I've walked with God in what he's doing, and so he's seeing the people and feels compassion for them. And this word is funny, it's the word splunkna Tim. Say splunkna, splunkna, splunkna.
Speaker 1:Splunkna, Splunkna.
Speaker 2:It's one of you know it's a derivative of it, splunkna the doomslayer.
Speaker 3:The house of splunkna yeah.
Speaker 2:It literally means your guts. Guts like your guts, like literally. This word means to feel it in your guts that, oh my gosh, like there's a need like this is. You guys have felt that before. The word I I like to use for just conviction actually felt something in the, in the person of who I am, and it's, it's changing the way that I view something. It's it's not just something that I'm looking at, it's something that I feel gripped by. And then he sees them.
Speaker 1:Wouldn't that be like an epiphany too? Isn't that the same thing?
Speaker 2:You could see it as an epiphany. I think it's more just like paying attention. Yeah, because, look, tim, if you watch the news, you'll feel exhausted by the end of it. Right, because you're seeing all the different things that are going on and you only have the capacity to actually do something about a little little bit of it, right? And I feel like the more we stare at massive, large problems that are going on globally, the less energy we have for actual things that we could do something about happening locally. You know, and most of us are inundated with so many things that are going wrong, that are going wrong that are happening on this massive level, that we all feel hopeless to do anything about it, and it actually makes us exhausted and not look for opportunities that are within our ability to do something about.
Speaker 3:I would just jump in as far as an epiphany. I would say the difference between an epiphany and Splunkno would be something like an epiphany is oh and splunk knows oh that's.
Speaker 2:That's a good. It's a good distinction, yeah, one at least. This clearly communicates that gotta sing, that there's something going on. There's a deep gut feeling that goes with it, and this gut feeling was him seeing people who were looking like they were losing a fight. I don't know if you've seen somebody losing a fight before, but there is something inside of you that's like, ah, we got to help this guy, we got to get in there, we got to do something about it. And then he tells the disciples to do what, to pray for it already. Pray right. Beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out workers, because apparently the harvest is plentiful. Like there's a lot of work that could be done, but the amount of people that want to do something about it is very few.
Speaker 2:If you don't want to do that work. Yeah, yeah, jesus, I'll follow you as long as I don't have to leave my neighborhood.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what I mean, yeah.
Speaker 2:I love the idea of doing something about it in a way that makes me feel more comfortable, not less comfortable.
Speaker 3:As you've said before Jesus, I'll do anything for you. Great Will you wash dishes, yeah?
Speaker 2:Uh, you know, my wife will wash the dishes. You know what I mean. But not, yeah, it's, it's a lot like that. It's a lot like that. And he says, um, he tells them basically to pray. Therefore, beseech the Lord of the harvest to send out workers into the harvest. And the reality is, is God is telling them in this moment, I want you to pray? And I would say they probably did If Jesus, in the moment, told them to pray. They probably stopped and prayed. You would at least think that. And then who does he send? Who are the workers that he sends? The disciples, the people that prayed. Yeah, the people that prayed. So I brought this up on the podcast before.
Speaker 2:But there is a principle of ministry For all you maybe younger guys out there, some of you wondering how do I have a greater impact on the stuff that I'm doing? It's really simple, but it's not easy. The second you begin to take spiritual responsibility for something, god will begin to give you spiritual authority. Okay, the second you take spiritual responsibility for something, god will also bring other people around you and give you all spiritual authority. So the second they start praying, you start taking responsibility for it. And then who gets sent out, the people that prayed. And our tendency in prayer is to think I prayed, I'm done. But actually what we see in Scripture is the people that pray are empowered themselves. The people that pray become part of the solution and we don't like that, like we want to disconnect the spiritual from, let's say, the physical. We're always like I said a prayer, now it's in God's hands In God's hands Right.
Speaker 2:And it's like it's in God's hands so far as the outcome. But the reality is that you are in God's hands, right, and I think if you pray sometimes you've got to realize that what you prayed for you're going to get good and hard that's one way to say it. I think what's worth noting here is CS Lewis's quote on prayer when he says you know, his prayer life changed when he started praying the Lord's Prayer a little bit different. And he says he basically started saying you know, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. And then he started adding this phrase at the end by me, right now, right.
Speaker 2:And I think most people pray and then dodge the responsibility. They pray and then they walk away from it, failing to realize that if you are full of the Spirit and you're the one in that moment taking responsibility for it, god is fully ready to begin to give you authority to do something about it. And William Booth has this quote that I love. He said I'm not waiting for a movement of God, I am a movement of God. He understood that the Spirit is in us and when we begin to pray, we should also be the ones seeking for God to use us to be the answer. I think the entire church globally could use a dose of this. What if I'm the answer that I've been praying for? What if I am actually the answer to this situation that I'm seeing? What if I actually began to take responsibility for some of these things that God is seeing? And am I courageous enough to be willing to do that?
Speaker 1:So true.
Speaker 3:Yeah, kind of on the subject of brass tacks, of starting a church, you know, when you told me, Justin, you know I feel like this is the season God is leading me to go start this church, it didn't end at me praying for your church and for that to be successful and for you to have the people you needed to set up systems or help with the podcast. It was like, all right, pray for those things. Oh, I'm the guy for some of these things. And this isn't your church, this is our church. This is the church that God is building with us in CS Lewis's words, right here by me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's good. One thing you kind of brought to my head was when you run like a I've been doing a cadre, we call it, but it's a small group yeah Thanks, small group, yeah thanks. And half the time these guys were talking about how terrible and how sinful and how rebellious and like just everything, that they're just not anymore but yet still feel like they are. Yeah, and it drives me crazy because, to your point, how do you expect to go out and do what god you've been praying about if you still think you're worthless scum? You know what I?
Speaker 2:mean yeah, if your perception of yourself is different than what the Bible says is true about you, then you'll always live in poverty, spiritually instead of the miraculous spiritually.
Speaker 1:So that sounds like you know. If you still feel that way, wake up, pray about it and move on, or, better yet, Stop repeating it every single day.
Speaker 2:It would be great if you would quit speaking things over yourself that Jesus said are not true. Yeah, you know, and let's be honest, the disciples that are about to be sent out are not awesome. They're not the cream of the crop. They weren't the group that was qualified to do this. Their leader, ostensibly outside of Christ, is Peter, but everybody knows that Peter, yeah, we follow sometimes when he does stuff because nobody else is going to step up and do it. But everybody in the back of their head knows this could go south Right. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 2:With this guy, ultimately you got to be following Jesus' leading. But he sends them in, dude, he sends them in and he gives them authority over unclean spirits to cast them out and to heal every kind of disease and every kind of sickness. Is what it says, and I love that. It's dominion over an area, not just individuals. You know he's like I'm giving you authority, go into this place and I want you to do the work with the people in this place. But what God is doing is never relegated just to individual souls. It's geographical areas God is like even when he speaks. It's Jerusalem, judea, samaria, the ends of the earth. They're physical places that he's sending them to go, to set up a bastion of hope in that area. That would expel unclean spirits, that would actually heal people.
Speaker 2:And I think we think about it in this individual sense. You know what I mean Oftentimes, where it's like, oh it's, you know, it's a thing that he's doing for this particular person. Yeah, yeah, people too. But remember that Christ is redeeming all things to himself, and that isn't just individuals. That's the very ground that we walk on. It's supposed to become something palpable and real, and I told you I was going to kind of bring it back, but, tim, I feel like that's been my heart from the beginning is that God started doing stuff in my guts. You know, it was like I started seeing what was going on. I started reading the Bible like a madman and the first thing that I'm doing is I'm praying and then suddenly God is bringing a group of guys around me and we just start to pray together.
Speaker 2:And then suddenly, tim, you're praying for people and you're seeing people get set free from stuff and other people that we're doing ministry. You're, you know, seeing people get set free from stuff. I feel like, everywhere I've gone my entire life when it's been in faith has been acting on. I'm going to say a deep conviction that God has placed in my guts that I'm supposed to do something about this, and then watching other people come alongside and be like, yeah, this is way bigger than just you, this is something God is doing with us. This is something God is doing right now, like even this podcast. Tim was like there's a need we're going to answer some questions. People have a lot of questions. People have a lot of, like, concerns about stuff. We should start actually trying to answer some of those things, and what you've been so good at is asking questions that I would just float over and assume. Doesn't everybody kind of get that?
Speaker 1:already, doesn't everybody think like me?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean speaking from just experience as a longtime listener to the podcast, like I have grown just listening to that too. Yeah, but I wanted to. You've been talking about something and I want you to bring it up here, tying it back into you know the people that Jesus is looking at, you know and what really resonated with what you're talking about, with King's Banner and the people. Tell us about who the people are Jesus is seeing here.
Speaker 2:Well, the first thing that I would bring up is that, right after Jesus gives these guys authorities to go and do this stuff, their names are written in the Bible as the guys who went and did it, which is cool.
Speaker 2:So you have the list of the disciples Now. The names of the 12 apostles are these these are the guys that saw what God was saying, that felt in their guts what he was feeling, that began to pray, that were gathered together, were given responsibility and authority and then sent out into this areas and I just think, like there's something about that. The move of God was these guys. That is terrifying to me. Wait, what do you mean? These guys? You got all the intelligent people. Pick them, lord. Send somebody else, send somebody more qualified and, to your point, tim, with all these people that are like I'm not the guy. You probably are and that's why you're dealing with that lie. I can't do this, I'm not this, I'm not that. No, no, no, that that's. It's great news for you If you read the Bible, because most of the guys, that people that most of the guys that God picks, uh, are exactly the kind of people that we would say, maybe sit this one out, bud. You know you're. You're not that guy, pal.
Speaker 1:You're not that guy Right. Isn't ministry more invitational? Tell me what you mean Like. So we deal with, like volunteers a lot at our church, which are great, yeah, but it's people who just I just want to help I don't know where, I don't know what to do, you know. But then you have these people like, if you want a set few to go out with you to start a church, yeah, aren't you finding a few guys that you trust, that you've been doing ministry with, and you asking them hey, I need you to come with me. I invite you to come with me, not so much the other way around.
Speaker 2:It's a good question? Um, I think it's probably both. Some people have come to me and said I don't know why, but I am supposed to do this and I've been praying about it, and there's some people that I'm saying, hey, I think we're supposed to do this. You should, you should come. And what I've been surprised at is that the majority of people that I've asked and said you should come are not going, and most of the people that are coming with me are people that are like I'm supposed to come and I'm like, okay, god's picking the team a little bit, and that's a good thing.
Speaker 2:You got to at least, at some level, feel convicted by and see what God is showing. And I think if some people are not at a place where they're seeing that or feeling that in their guts, or they got a different conviction that God has uniquely called them to praise the Lord, do that, get after it. But I would say this don't do nothing, don't do nothing. The most bitter Christians I know I've said it a billion times, tim are the ones with a foot in the world and a foot in the church, who are constantly talking themselves out of doing stuff that they're supposed to do and wonder why they're frustrated. And if you take that far enough you let that happen in your life long enough you'll be the guy or girl who sits back and critiques how everyone else is doing it wrong to justify your lack of faithfulness in doing something at all. Yeah, and there's a lot of that.
Speaker 3:There's also kind of people that are so spiritually minded that they're no earthly good Sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's when the invitation piece comes in.
Speaker 3:Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:If I feel like that all the time when I'm at church and somebody sees something different, I would want them to tell me.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But even before you're asking about helping, you're feeling something in your guts, right, even before you ask, you're usually like I should probably ask yeah, even if you're like I wonder if they need help in this area. Why do I feel that way? Because something is going off in my guts that's saying I should probably see if I can do something in this area. That's, that's the conviction that drives people and I believe that's the spirit in all of us calling us to that.
Speaker 2:But you can beat the heck out of that voice. Yeah, you can repress it and push it down and say no, I mean comfort is killing so many people's callings. You have this wonderful, like American dream that so many of us have and it is, I'm telling you, I feel like 90% of the time it is set against what God is actually calling us to do in our own life. And there are moments in your life where God's going to give you peace and he'll give you blessing. But if you're a Christian, I feel like it's never totally comfortable because you're always looking at what is God asking me to do next? What am I sacrificing next in the name of Christ? What am I? What's the intention that I'm supposed to have in these circumstances to do the stuff that God is uniquely calling me to do, and I've watched comfort kill a lot of calling in people's lives, just trying to figure stuff out over over, actually following Jesus into what he's saying, and I wanted to get back to what Casey was trying to bring up earlier. Jesus tells these guys in this moment that he wants them to go to the lost sheep of Israel, these people who are beat down and beat up and have been crushed and tossed. I mean, what he's seeing in this moment is not all of the Gentiles who will eventually receive the gospel and have the gospel extended to them, but his own people were getting the crap kicked out of them.
Speaker 2:And my call, tim, since I got saved, has almost I would say this has first and foremost been to half-hearted, lethargic or lost Christians, people who are half in, half out, don't understand what it is that they're doing or why, have a really hard time understanding the Bible, can't find somebody who will mentor or pour into them, can't find somebody who will help equip them and show them how to do the stuff that they're actually supposed to do.
Speaker 2:And I feel like in the church today there's a lot of people who are really interested in going out and saving the lost and praise the Lord. I'm about that. But what if you have a ton of people in churches that are already lost? What if you have a bunch of people that are Christians that are saying you know, I'm not there, like you know, I just don't get it, or I don't know how to connect? And let's be honest, how many churches are full of people who are not saved and they're part of, like, the covenant community, but they don't know what's going on. Their marriages are falling apart. They don't know how to follow.
Speaker 1:Jesus, that's always been my point when it comes to like Easter and Christmas sermons. Is that exactly what you just said?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, I think there's a, so I'll go here for a second. I think the church has become proficient at prioritizing our neighbors over our own family. I would say we are really good at telling the lost how to get saved, and the question is, what are you saving them to? Like? If I'm trying to adopt somebody, the home that I'm adopting them into is actually more important than the adoption, and a lot of people are prioritizing it the other direction, like I just got to get this person into a family, right. But if your marriage is falling apart and your kids hate you right now, probably not the time you know what I mean, and we should not be bastardizing the church in the name of trying to reach somebody else.
Speaker 2:In 1 Corinthians I'm fond of bringing this up paul, at one point, says I had a door wide open for the gospel and I turned around and left and came back to see you guys because I was. I was, I heard some things were going wrong and I needed to make sure I took care of this. And where we're, where we're headed tim is um tyler texas, which is the buckle of the bible belt, like it's the it's. It's literally, it's the thing holding it together, if you want to think about it that way. And what's sad is that there's a ton of churches there but they've lost 50% of attendance and membership in the last five years. The younger generation is increasingly post-Christian. They're not attending church, they're not going, they're not saved. They're all looking for an opportunity to grow and fall in love with Jesus at some level. People that I've been talking to down there, they know just enough about Jesus to not actually know him. And some of these numbers and guys I've been talking to that are part of the Southern Baptist Convention and different arms of that are saying that in the next 20 years, if something doesn't happen, tyler is going to be post-Christian. We're going to lose the buckle of the Bible belt, you're going to lose the heart of it, you're going to lose the center of the thing.
Speaker 2:And just what? What are the, what are the implications of losing the Bible belt in our nation from, like, let's take away the spiritual element to it. For, for, for, just from a political standpoint, for a second, how bad do things go in your culture? You lose the bastion of morality in our country. How bad do things go if you start to lose, let's say, the anchor that has kind of been trying to hold the United States to its convictions, and I've been telling people this move is not like a flash in the pan.
Speaker 2:We're going to go down there and save a couple before it all falls apart. Actually, my goal is no, we need to go down there and for the next 40 years, all falls apart. Actually, my goal is no, we need to go down there and for the next 40 years, we're going to fight for the next generation and pray that God would bring revival, because I believe, if you get this right, if you go, fight for the heart of our Israel, if you want to call it that way, the people of God who are losing the next generation of families that are no longer connecting and no longer coming, I think we're actually going to lose so much more on a national and even a global level if we don't fight for the God's people that are already there, who are like sheep without a shepherd, who are losing heart and losing the ability to legitimately connect with Jesus and find out what the transformed life is supposed to be. And we got a bunch of people down there who are like conservatives and they think, because I voted red, obviously Jesus loves me.
Speaker 3:You know they're. That is what is killing us. They're going to potlucks after church and hanging out and they have that community, but they're spiritually starving to death.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and even even in conversations, even the community piece isn't happening. They'll go on a Sunday morning and check the box and then their life outside of Sunday looks totally different than what they do on Sunday mornings and that's not different than most of the church. I just think it's in a particularly strategic area that you do not want to lose. But yeah, I mean, I've been going down there and talking to one lady and she was like I started in this Baptist church over here, I tried this church over here, and then she literally just sighed and was like, honestly, I'm just lost right now. She's like I would love to find a place to go where I can like be myself and grow in my relationship with God, but I just don't know where that is. And I'm sitting there like we got to get down here, we've got to get this thing off the ground and get it going. But as I've been looking at this text, him, all I'm seeing is God showing a need, god giving me a heart and a compassion for what's actually going on, him calling me to pray, him bringing a group together and, as we're taking responsibility, I really believe that God's going to give us spiritual authority to go down there and really kick the darkness in the teeth and my heart.
Speaker 2:Ultimately, tim, is to wake up the sleeping giant that is lethargic Christianity. Part of my ministry has been again grabbing three or four guys and just getting people to see what God is doing. Begin to pour into those people and watch transformation happen. Look, if you want to reach the lost, start with raising up the found. If you want to reach the lost, actually make disciples, don't just hire them. If you want to reach the lost, you actually have to be the catalyst for God's transformative work in somebody's life by the Spirit.
Speaker 2:And I think so many of us are looking for event Christianity, which happens on Sundays, but have no clue what it looks like to actually not live like the world the rest of the week outside of just don't do bad things, do good things. You know, there's got to be a difference, there's got to be a vitality to it. The rest of the week, outside of just don't do bad things, do good things. There's got to be a difference, there's got to be a vitality to it. There's got to be a commitment to it, a conviction. And I'll tell you, tim, it is easy to choose looking faithful over actually exercising faith. It's easy to do things that used to be hard for you and miss out on things that are actually steps of faith. Right now and so many people are like I will I'd rather look faithful to other people than actually have to take steps of faith now, and because of that, they're missing what God has called them to.
Speaker 1:That's always a thought I have. Actually, it's like I could fake being a Christian so easily. I could speak the Christianese so well.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, yeah yeah, it's, it's easy to. It's easy to pretend. I mean, I think we talked a little bit about the rich young ruler, um, earlier on, but his whole story is going to jesus. God, I'm doing all the right things, what else do I need to inherit the kingdom? And jesus is like you know what you lack, you're too comfortable. Yeah, come with me, get rid of your stuff. I want you to follow me. And he's's like hey, I didn't know you were going to ask me to have faith. I didn't know you were going to ask me to actually make decisions. That would mean I have to trust you and rely on you.
Speaker 1:Don't be absurd. It's one of the insurance of eternal life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that guy walks away and Jesus doesn't go after him and all of us are like what? But tell him to attend on Sunday? Look, yes, I love Resurrection Sunday. I love the celebration that we have in the church. I love covenant, I love sacraments and worship and preaching. All those things are glorious but they mean nothing if it isn't transforming hearts and lives and winning over actual people to the fullness of who Christ has called them to be in the gospel actual people to the fullness of who Christ has called them to be in the gospel. And I just feel like Tim in a lot of ways we've become addicted to an event Christianity that looks a lot like our culture and, ironically, if it looks a lot like your culture, it probably can't bring a lot of transformation to your culture. And when fads come and fads go, if people are coming and going with those fads, then you're doing something wrong. Numbers don't always mean success in these areas. It just might mean you're a great event coordinator.
Speaker 1:Lord knows, we need good event coordinators but that can't be the substance of what it is.
Speaker 2:Hey, heaven's going to be bright and noisy. I'm not a fan of fog machines.
Speaker 1:Your church gets fog machines, I ain't going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, fair enough, fair enough but if it's the shekinah glory of god, okay, tim, it'll be fine, you know. And then we're all leaving because, uh, like, uh, um like, like it happened in solomon's day, you know, they decided to get out of the temple because it was so thick. That was fun, all right yeah, yeah, yeah but it's been.
Speaker 2:It's been wild man and, um, as I've been praying through this and walking through stuff and just trying to really try to get my feet under me with what God is calling me to do, it feels—I've been quoting Lord of the Rings a lot to myself it's a dangerous business, frodo, going out your door, stepping onto the road. If you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to. I just keep thinking it's like, yeah, there's this reality where it's like going outside is dangerous. Actually, taking steps of faith is hard and actually trusting Jesus is going to make you look very different than what the average bear is doing.
Speaker 2:And I think we've become a little bit like hobbits, you know, not fond of adventures. Really like the stuff that we have, really like creating community where you know we're happy here. Really like the stuff that we have Really like creating community we're you know we're happy here. But don't ask me to go anywhere and do anything. In fact, we frown upon it when people do and we'll probably try to talk you out of it and I would say that is not. That is not what God is calling us into. There is a dragon, there is a war.
Speaker 1:What's the?
Speaker 2:other quote you what you're talking about?
Speaker 3:uh, it does you no good to leave a dragon out of your calculations if?
Speaker 2:you live, you live near one, yeah, that's what it was and, uh, I just think, um, it's time for it's time for people to come out of the hobbit holes and uh, and actually get onto the road and start doing some of the things that christ has called them to do. And look, this is not a, this is not a drive-by guilting for anybody who is faithful and serving and doing all the things. I praise God for you and hopefully, if you're that person, you already know, like you're already in the fight.
Speaker 1:You're already doing it.
Speaker 2:That's great, but I do have a large concern that a lot of people have stopped taking steps of faith and have justified it by looking faithful to other people instead, and it's not the same thing.
Speaker 3:Well, it goes back to your next step. Of faith is always the hardest, step of faith is always the next one. And so if you find yourself living that comfortable, easy life where nothing is hard, nothing is difficult, I mean that's a really good indicator that you've stopped taking those steps of faith.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean, let's be honest, in this same text, in verse 16, he says behold, I send you out a sheep in the midst of wolves. So be shrewd as serpent and innocent as doves Like do the right things, but be thoughtful, be calculated in what I'm calling you to do and how you want to get it done. And I think it's. I think it's important that we do that stuff. I think it's important that we do that stuff. So everything we've been doing up to this point, man has been cool.
Speaker 2:I'm going to try to take the passion and the conviction for King's Banner that God has placed on my heart and I want to champion this. I'm going to go run after it and God is bringing people together around this that are wanting to take responsibility and prayerfully step into this ministry. I'm trying to take a lot of the content that God has put on my heart and start putting some books out. I want to take this podcast and I want to amplify it. God has used it, tim, and it's reached a ton of people and we haven't really been able to do that much with it other than just try to be consistent, and we haven't even been great at that.
Speaker 1:This year has been the hardest, I think, to be consistent, it's been crazy.
Speaker 2:And in a lot of ways, I think it's because God has been moving the cloud for me. Yeah, you know, when you start getting pulled in a different direction, it can be hard to put things together, but now that I see things coming together, I think it's going to be a great opportunity to take the stuff that we've been doing and turn it up a little bit, have some fun with it and trust that God's going to go, bring revival and hope and joy and, ultimately, generations of faithful people. I'm praying that when the breath leaves my lungs and the grip leave my hands, there's going to be something awesome going on that I will no longer have anything to do with, because God is using other faithful people to continue to carry it and use it to plant other churches, raise up other pastors, establish godly families, heal marriages, set people free from addictions, set people free from faithless lives and actually put people on mission in a covenant community where worship of Jesus Christ is central and living in faith is a byproduct, and I'm fired up about it.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Well, thanks, dude. Yeah, I'm excited to tell everybody man.
Speaker 2:I feel like we've talked about bringing it up on the podcast.
Speaker 1:A couple of times and just been waiting a little bit.
Speaker 2:I think Casey's going to be involved in future podcasts. He's going to be helping us get stuff off the ground a little bit when we're in Tyler, and then Tim's going to continue to be his lovely self, because we need that sweet, deep voice you got bro.
Speaker 3:That's true. You can't have the podcast without Tim we are not.
Speaker 2:Uh, I would say this we're not subtracting anything. Goal is that we're adding stuff. And again, for those of you guys that want to uh the give to what we're doing as a church Kings bannerorg we would love for you to donate. Every dollar you give right now is really helping, going to the foundation of what we're doing with this church. You get to kind of help build it right now financially, which is cool.
Speaker 1:Uh, I'll have it in the description the your website for your church, perfect, and uh, if you guys have questions, email us. Uh, we have a send a text thing on there. Oh yeah, but just so people know, I I just literally get the city and the state that you texted from.
Speaker 2:That's helpful. You gotta put some info on there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if you want questions answered, uh, email us. Yeah, that's in the description as well.
Speaker 2:And uh, on the website as well, you can sign up. There's like a monthly newsletter that'll go out and I'll keep you posted on uh, uh, new podcasts that are coming out, updates on book stuff that's happening, updates on what's going on with the church, and try to keep you guys in the loop with everything going on. But I want to echo what Tim said Super grateful for you guys that have been consistent listeners and paying attention to everything that we've been doing on this podcast. In a big way you've kind of been part of our ministry and what God's been doing through us and we really appreciate you and we spend time praying for you actually before every single podcast. So, uh, pray that uh, God continues to bless you guys and use this to um, to, to, to to raise up God's banner everywhere we go.
Speaker 1:Amen Amen. Right on All right. Casey, thanks for being here.
Speaker 3:No problem, thanks for having me. Thanks for carrying this down to Texas the navigate banner right next to the Kings banner.
Speaker 2:Well, just below it.
Speaker 3:That's going to be a ton of fun.
Speaker 1:It's been half mass the whole time. It's like no something's wrong.
Speaker 2:Oh my word, we have so much to go over. But all right, you guys are fantastic, love you all, hope you all have an amazing week. Yeah, catch you all next time, all right?
Speaker 1:See ya.
