Navigate Podcast
Welcome to Navigate, we are two long term friends doing life and ministry together. I got tired of the same ole answers when I started looking for help when it came to my walk with God. So together we go deeper than most would on topics that most people have heard or were taught but never fully understood. It is our way of simplifying concepts that we may have over complicated throughout our lives. Bringing theology and life experience into each episode. It is our hope and desire to help Navigate your Christian walk with you
Navigate Podcast
Q and A: Life's Arc
Ever feel stuck in your spiritual journey? This raw, unfiltered Q&A episode tackles the uncomfortable truth about spiritual plateaus and what genuine growth actually requires.
Justin begins by addressing why many Christians lose their fire - often because they've trained their brains for distraction through excessive media consumption while neglecting meaningful action. "A bored Christian is usually a disobedient Christian," he explains, challenging listeners to examine whether they're pouring into others or merely collecting knowledge.
The conversation shifts to authentic calling versus mere opportunity-chasing. Through powerful biblical examples like Jeremiah and Moses, Justin illuminates how true divine calling typically brings frustration rather than excitement. "Calling is something that almost irritates you, less than is something you're excited and pumped about," he reveals, sharing his own reluctant journey to church planting despite initial resistance.
Perhaps most compelling is the discussion of spiritual maturity, which Justin likens to tree rings - slow, consistent growth marked by seasons of wrestling with God. "Maturity is having wounds and a limp and scars from doing the things that God has told you to do," he explains, contrasting this with religious busyness.
For those wondering how to share faith without alienating friends, build sustainable spiritual habits, or find hope when facing life's end, Justin offers practical wisdom grounded in biblical truth. His vulnerability about his own struggles creates a safe space for listeners to examine their spiritual journey honestly.
Whether you're feeling spiritually stagnant, questioning your direction, or simply hungry for authentic faith, this episode provides the perspective shift needed to move forward with renewed purpose. What uncomfortable truth is God asking you to confront today?
Email: tjbhpodcast@gmail.com
what's up everybody? Welcome back to the podcast. I am here with the elusive spirit that is in the room with us now. Uh, fred, we have a q, a setup for today that fred is actually going to be running us through. So I don't know, I'm this could go quick or I could be rather long winded, and we're we're about to find out. So if we need to split it into two, we will, or if it's just rapid fire and we roll through it, fine. But hopefully these, um, these uh questions we got will help answer some things that maybe you guys have been curious about. So, uh, I'm pumped about it. Fred, say hi.
Speaker 2:Hey everybody, I just want to come on and make sure I can have my voice heard at least once while I'm helping out Justin here Very important.
Speaker 1:All right, I'm excited for these questions Lead us forward. So what do we got?
Speaker 2:So one of the questions we have is I feel like I've grown past the basics of faith. How do I keep from plateauing spiritually? How do I keep from plateauing spiritually?
Speaker 1:Okay, man, this is kind of a question that will plague everyone, and it's usually not a one-time thing and then I'm catching fire again. There's usually a myriad of things that are going on. I am in the process of getting a book published on this right now, called burn, which is kind of a field manual for helping you ignite your faith. Um so shameless plug that'll be out in December. Look for it, listeners. So here's a. Here's something to consider. There's probably three or four areas that I would look at. If you feel like you're getting bored. Uh, the the first thing that I would would look at if you feel like man, I feel like I'm doing the stuff and I'm just losing juice. I'm not motivated to do the things that I used to do, or I'm not motivated in the things that I'm continuing to do.
Speaker 1:One thing that I would ask right away is is your serotonin and dopamine levels? Is your brain being fed in all the wrong places and you're being programmed to have ADD so you can no longer focus on things that actually matter? So, if you're scrolling more than normal and I'll just be honest with you if somebody's like, yeah, I'm just really having a hard time reading lately, I'll be like can I see your screen time? And uh, yeah, yeah, I mean without fail. It's usually like um seems to be up significantly Right. And then if I'm asking stuff like what are you eating, like you know, and it's like, yeah, I'm kind of eating like crap right now. Well, if you're getting a bunch of sugar and everything else from other places, you're feeding your brain and training it to have ADD. You know what I mean. If that exists, sorry, tangent You're training yourself to be unmotivated. Right, and oftentimes our society right now, our culture, media, just the normal patterns that people have train people to be unmotivated and undisciplined in things that matter. I wouldn't say they're undisciplined totally, because you can be disciplined with the wrong patterns, but I would say you can be training your brain not to be enjoying the things that you're supposed to be enjoying, not to be enjoying the things that you're supposed to be enjoying. And honestly, if you're reading through chapters of the Bible and you're just kind of blasé through the whole thing, I would honestly ask you have you been consuming so much media that when you get to God's Word, it seems dull to you? And I would say, if that's the case, then what you've been doing is enjoying lights and colors and all these things that are keeping you from actually being able to think deeply about something.
Speaker 1:When this happens to me, I really try to check my heart first and say, god, I am not hearing what you have for me in this text. I'm not experiencing you right now. I need help. Would you help me see this? Would you help me understand this? Would you help me get into the Word?
Speaker 1:And I like to use my imagination to picture what the Bible says is actually happening, and by that I mean I like to imagine in that room. I'm sitting there with the Bible. I'm going to imagine the presence of God right there with me, because the Bible says he is. I also want to imagine the reality of God right there with me, because the Bible says he is. I also want to imagine the reality that in the world around me there is a real war going on. And now I'm going to get back to the Bible, remembering that there is a fight, there's something real happening, and that God wants to speak to me through these pages and sometimes I'm really stupid and hard of hearing and I'm going to ask him to speak to me and show me a rule. And hard of hearing, and I'm going to ask Him to speak to me and show me. A rule I'll give myself in those moments, specifically with the Bible, is I'm not leaving this chapter until God shows me something. I'm not going to leave it until God shows me something in this passage, and that helps immensely.
Speaker 1:The other thing that I would say is it's not just cutting stuff out, but doing the right things. So if you're not exercising, if you're not in conversation with people who are passionate about things that actually matter, if all your friends are people who don't care, are stuck in the same slump you are. Find new friends, find a mentor, something like that. Other good things to do. When I talk to people who seem to be losing fire a little bit is it's usually people with a lot of head knowledge with almost no action involved. So if you know a lot of stuff but you're not actually employing those things like there's a problem. So if I ask you and you're just, you're getting a little bit bored right now I would say who are you discipling currently? And if your list is basically zero or well, I'm teaching the Bible to my kids. And if your list is basically zero or well, I'm teaching the Bible to my kids. Great, teach the Bible to your kids.
Speaker 1:But you should be pouring into somebody, and if you are, let's say the cup that God is filling and it's not being poured out somewhere else that actually matters yeah, that water's going to go stale and you should kind of expect that to be the case.
Speaker 1:You're not tired of your relationship with God. You're usually uninspired about it, and that happens when you're not seeing God move, and that's usually because he's trying to use you and you're not really willing to move. So just a quick answer Turn off entertainment, turn up healthy diet, healthy exercise, the people that you're hanging out with and new activities that allow you to do the things that God has actually told you to do, because a bored Christian is usually a disobedient Christian. Christian who is in the middle of a fight or in the middle of frustration or difficulty, or invigorated because he's seen God move, is somebody who's actively taking steps of faith. Faith grows when conviction grows, and conviction grows when you're silencing nonsense and focusing on what God has actually told you to do. And again, I just want to emphasize this If you're hanging out with a bunch of people who don't care, you're going to be in the same boat very soon. All right, hope that helps.
Speaker 2:That certainly answers the question, in my opinion, very clear. Okay, all right, ready for another one. Yeah, hit me, all right. What's the difference between maturity in Christ and just being busy with church activities? This kind of ties a little bit in with the last one.
Speaker 1:Boy, maturity is kind of like a it's a term I would associate with humility. Um, maturity is understanding that you're probably not as mature as you should be. In the same way that being humble helps, you should know that I'm not as humble as I should be. To me, I would say something along the lines of maturity is walking through lessons and going through life in a way where you are actively looking for what God is trying to teach you and show you in every circumstance and then deploy those to the people around you. Um, maturity is somebody who has gone through or is going through what God is trying to teach them and isn't running from that difficulty but is actively engaging in that frustration and um, I'd say it this way wrestling with God. You should lose to God again and again and again and again Some of the most frustrating times in my life where things have just been super irritating or things have just blown up, and I don't mean little things, I mean massive things.
Speaker 1:The statement I have found myself coming to is okay, god, you win, you win Like I, I, I'm done, I got nothing left. I lose. I lose this fight. I didn't realize I was warring against you in this moment. Apparently I was, and I was trying to get my will and you had a different plan. So I'm telling you you win. I'm tapping out what do you want me to do? Where do you want me to go? And in the story of uh, you know Jacob wrestling with God, he comes out with a limp. And I think maturity is having wounds and a limp and scars from doing the things that God has told you to do and going the places God has called you to go, because if God loves you, I think there's going to be discipline and things that come along with that. It's just part of the process. So maturity is learning through the circumstances life throws at you and then again dispensing those to the people around you, because you're not really mature or maturing unless the things that God is showing you, you're helping give to other people.
Speaker 2:Right, so there's a little bit more of a experience base than also pouring into others.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think everything God does in life, in your life, in somebody else's life, there's a prophetic piece to it that is supposed to point to Jesus. This is the. You know, was it revelation 1914 or 1419, something like that? But but, uh, this Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Speaker 1:Um, I really do think that every circumstance we go to um or walk through, god is trying to show us something of himself, and so Jesus has wounds on his body, uh, of himself, and so Jesus has wounds on his body.
Speaker 1:Jesus wants us to know him in his life, in his joy, in his suffering, in his difficulty, and our life is ultimately wrestling with God as he shapes us.
Speaker 1:Maybe sometimes, you know, if you need it shapes us and molds us into the image of himself, and that means you're going to get twisted and pulled a little bit and changed in that process.
Speaker 1:And a wise man, a mature man, is humble enough to accept allowing God to do those things and not fighting against him, so that he can then teach other people the way, what it's supposed to look like. And this is why I think guys like Peter you know, in second Peter like it's no problem for me to tell you these things again and again and again, cause you need to lose these fights in your pride and the way that you think things are supposed to go to the truth. And that means being shaped and molded the way God wants you to and then again, like I said, sharing that with other people. So I hope that's a helpful response. On the maturity piece, I just think I think maturity a lot of people think is something that it's not, but I just think it's like the, it's the rings on a tree. You know, it's the constant, slow process of gaining more and more and more, growing in that process and not allowing yourself to stop or stagnate because you don't want to learn something that God is trying to show you.
Speaker 2:All right, very good, all right, here we go. So this is one that, especially in light of coming down to Texas, starting King's Banner, getting things all up and running, yeah, this question is how do I recognize if God as redirecting my calling in a new season of life? I kind of want to know how you recognize that, how you know new from just looking at the scripture, where you needed to be, and that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:I mean there's a. There's a lot of ways that God can direct somebody. I will say this I get really sick of people telling me they're called to something, when all they mean by that is I found a house that's cheaper, that I like you know what I mean or I found a living situation that's better, or I got a really good job opportunity out of town. That's God calling me. No, sometimes you're just making decisions. Sometimes you're excited about a new idea and that's totally fine. We don't have to call that a calling from God. I think a calling is something that almost irritates you, less than is something you're excited and pumped about. I've been thinking a lot about Abraham and God calling him out from where his family was in the Ur of the Chaldeans and telling him to leave. Like what a frustrating thing to leave your entire family behind, to go to a place that you're unfamiliar with, where you have functionally nothing and just start over. Functionally nothing and just start over. Calling is something that can happen in a moment. It is also something in a lot of places that refers to how God has uniquely made you to be. You can be avoiding who God has uniquely made you to be or you can be avoiding where God is uniquely calling you to go, and I would just want people to know right off the bat that calling tends to come with frustration. If you're doing something and it's working and you're having a lot of fun and God's using it and it's great, and then you suddenly are getting confirmation from wise people that love Jesus to circumstances that are radically changing in your life, to doors opening in other places that are correlating with those things. Now I'm starting to sense a pattern that God is not just, let's say, uniquely saying come this way, here's a great opportunity. It's more like a I'm pushing you this way. Saying come this way, here's a great opportunity. It's more like a I'm pushing you this way. Um man, I w? I want to talk about so much of this, but when Moses is before the burning bush no-transcript. You know what I mean. It was crazy. The burning tree in the wilderness told me to go back and confront my you know brother, who is the pharaoh. At this point, I am also guilty of murder in this particular part of land and I'm going to ask him to do something totally absurd that nobody in their right mind would ever ask. You know, completely crazy, jonah, any of the. I say it all the time. But if the disciples would have known what Jesus was going to ask him to do on a daily, I don't think that they ever would have followed him in the first place. But there's this, there's this fire that comes with it, this, um, this deep compass that's pushing you a particular direction.
Speaker 1:Jeremiah 20, verse nine, says it really well. It's this passage where Jeremiah is pissed off at God and because every time he gets a revelation and goes and does what he's supposed to do, they throw them in a pit or beat them up or take the scrolls that he wrote down and burn them in front of everyone or all kinds of stuff. And, god, you know, in Jeremiah one it's like I've, I've called you to be a prophet to the nations. You're going to be a mouthpiece for me. Before you were born, I set you apart for this purpose. And he's like in in Jeremiah 20, he says God, I feel like you tricked me. You told me that these were the things that you wanted me to do and I'm doing them. And it's the worst, it's not fun. Like why is this, you know? And he basically says but if I say that I'm not going to do this anymore. It says your word is in my heart like a fire shut up in my bones. I'm weary of holding it in. Indeed, I cannot. And it's this, it's this frustration with what God had called him to, and so I just want to clarify the idea of calling is not something that is willy-nilly, it's not something that is just random. I felt called to go to this grocery store instead of that one.
Speaker 1:I was called to move to a different church, for no other reason than we just feel like it. That doesn't really make sense. A calling usually requires a large step of faith because of a compulsion that you feel internally that is confirmed by a myriad of factors outside of you that also don't make sense. You know what I mean Absolutely, and I don't mean it's insane. I just mean if everything's going well and suddenly you have a bunch of people telling you and circumstances telling you, hey, you're going to have to go this way, it's a lot like in the desert with the Israelites. You're going to have to follow the fire. And I think there's probably a lot of circumstances where the Israelites found a good place with water and everything set up, and they're good. Camp's already stout. Can we just hang for a little bit? And God's like and we're moving. Great, here we go again.
Speaker 1:Okay, so for me, I mean calling I'm going to try to focus on calling to plant King's Banner rather than my calling to ministry in general. But about six years ago I did a church planting residency, really enjoyed it, went through the process and I was like I will get to church planting, but I want to get a couple of wins under my belt and focus on, you know, growing in my ability, understanding the world a little bit, maturing the church world, yeah, and I just honestly, man, I'll just say it this way I got really comfortable and happy and was doing really good where I was at with what I was doing. It would have been really fun to continue to work in that area and do the things I was doing. There was nothing about it that was like I got to get out of here. This is not what I'm supposed to be doing. It felt awesome. It was a really fun job getting to do a bunch of stuff that I know God has uniquely called me to as a person.
Speaker 1:And I was in the middle of preaching a message and I had like an out of body experience man. It was weird like in the middle of preaching a message and I feel like God tells me you're not going to be here much longer. Like I'm, I'm calling you out, you're going somewhere else, and that was super frustrating and I kind of put a pin in it. And then my wife tells me after second service this really weird thing happened to me while you were preaching today I feel like God was telling me we're supposed to plant a church, you're not going to be here much longer. I got to tell you. My first thought was not not like oh great, that's so exciting. My first thought was not like oh great, that's so exciting. My first thought was I don't want to do that. Everything's going fine here. So I put a pin in it you know what I mean, right? And I hang it up for a little while and find it out from certain people.
Speaker 1:This random guy gets a hold of me and he says dude, I just felt in my bones a different message that I preached about two months later that you're supposed to be planting a church right now. You're not supposed to be doing this. That same message I came off the platform and someone came up to me and said dude, I think you're supposed to be planting a church. Like, I don't think you're supposed to be here much longer. I'm like could everybody stop saying that that would be great. Have a couple of other confirmations, just circumstantial stuff. Confirmation, just circumstantial stuff.
Speaker 1:And then I had a guy preach a message at our church, where I think I brought this up on the podcast before, but he was talking about John 15 and he's talking about the vine that's on the ground and you know, the, the one that's, that's God says he's going to pull up. And he was talking about being in Israel and he said some of these vines, they grow on the ground and if they don't get sunlight they don't produce fruit. And the problem with these vines is that if they're down on the ground, they'll try to be putting roots down and those roots actually keep them from bearing more fruit. And so the, the vine dresser will come over and he'll he'll cut the roots off and pull them up so that they would actually bear fruit. And I felt like God spoke to me in that moment and just told me you're trying to put roots down and I'm trying to pull you up right now, like you're trying to, you're trying to drop roots and I am trying to pull you out to bear fruit.
Speaker 1:And after that, I felt like it was like four or five confirmations over the, over a series of two or two or three months. Um, that made it very clear to me, man, this is something that's going on. And, uh, sat down, um wrote down a bunch of stuff that I felt like, if I was going to do this, this would be the name of the place, this would be, um, the values that I'd want to have, this would be our vision, this would be our mission. I put all the I mean, it fell out of me in like a two hour period and I was like, man, yeah, that that is, that's something that I would, I would want to do, I'd want to fight for and you know, and through through prayer. Another element to this is that the first place I said I would not plant the church.
Speaker 1:That me and my wife agreed we would not plant the church was Texas and it was the first place that God put on both of our hearts in this process. And it was just this wrestle man because it's frustrating, you know, um, and came down here and had God confirm, uh, again and again, through little things, big things, that this is where we're supposed to be and what we're supposed to be doing. And, uh, it's been hard, dude, has not been like an easy thing. I feel like we've I've, you know, I've lived in Colorado for, you know, 33 years and, um, moving down here, changing our circles and really starting at ground zero again in my life, and it has been one of those things where it's like, okay, this feels more like calling because I would not choose this, right, this is not something that I would go out of my way and say this is a great idea, cannonball, all the progress, people networking, everything that you've done in a particular area and start over in a state where no one knows you or respects you or you know is in any of the circles of people that you know. It's just a, it's a brand new thing.
Speaker 1:And yeah, and I will say this, the other part of calling is seeing God confirm calling in progress? Right, because if you get somewhere and there is no fire, there is no desire. And it seemed like you were really excited when you first left and now you're there and everything is going incredibly poorly and God is not coming through and things are not going well at all. And I don't mean to say there won't be a fight, but I mean like something is wrong. Okay, maybe reassess and call some mentors or different things like that. But yeah, calling is calling. By this I mean not in the who you are as a person sense, but in the moment in time and God is moving. You were calling you to something in your you know, something in the temporal sense, let's say, usually isn't a happy, exciting thing. Usually it's more of a frustrating, irritating, uncomfortable thing, and that's worth noting for all of you out there wondering about calling or using the word calling in a casual way. I would just be careful about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you briefly mentioned like in some cases you have people who go out and do something that's very frustrating. They're not seeing very much fruit from it. One of the next questions, which leads into this rather well, is if someone goes and they pursue the calling that they have and they feel like they're failing, how would you encourage them to look at it, knowing that it's a longer process?
Speaker 1:So for somebody who actually has, let's say, a calling to something, this is why it's really important to confirm that calling with other godly people, with circumstances, with things you heard from God along the way, does your conviction match what this is? And then you want to write those things down. You want to write out the story of what has actually happened, what, what is. You know what I've been called to up to this point, so that you can go back and remind your heart why you're there and what's actually going on. Jesus. You know what I mean when Peter says command me to come out to you, goes out to him. I was noticing today, as I was reading, that it says that as soon as he started to fall, jesus reached out a hand and grabbed him, which means that Peter got within hand's reach of Jesus, and it seems like the closer he was getting to Jesus, apparently, the more fear of the waves and wind he was noticing, which I think is an interesting thing. You know what I mean. I think it's kind of the other way around. Like Jesus was, he was far away and he really just got distracted. No, the closer you get to what Jesus is calling you to do, the more you're going to have to focus on him and the more the tendency is to focus on the wrong things.
Speaker 1:So this is me saying, hey, if you're in a fight doing what God has called you to do, I'm not saying, oh, I guess I wasn't called to this, and I've said this a myriad of times. Usually the fight means you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. What I do mean is this you get down there and it's just dry. None of the things that you said you were going to be doing or what you're doing, none of the opportunity for the stuff that you were talking about is there. And usually this corresponds with. Actually, in hindsight, I was not called to this.
Speaker 1:Several people told me don't go and don't be a part of this and, um, uh, I didn't, I don't have, um, really a story that makes sense and collaborated with other people and you know that brought me to this point. I would say, if you're called to something and you're hitting ways, if you're legitimately called, I would say hard work in one direction over a long period of time, just keep going, just keep fighting. But if you find yourself in a place where you're like, yeah, I've, I've literally I am, as far as I'm concerned, sinking. I'm not doing what Jesus called me to do. I'm doing kind of everything else in the process and none of it's really working out. Reassess, reassess, because it could have been, uh, could have been an idea you had in the moment. That is really not something that God has called you to do, that you wanted to feel like God called you to do, excited for something, but not necessarily where you needed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's part of the excitement piece that I'm talking about. If it's excitement and opportunity that you're looking for, I think calling usually feels different than that. I 100% agree. There's a David Wilkerson had this quote. He, he, he started time square church and was back in the gosh. I want to say it was in the sixties, seventies and he ran into a guy that um was trying to sell him heroin down there and he said this is the good stuff, this'll kill you. And he said he, he literally began to weep because he, he realized how bad things were, that people were looking for an out and they were looking for an out so badly that if it would kill them it was better. And he had this statement.
Speaker 1:It's a great sermon. I think I'm trying to remember what the name of the sermon is, but he said I've never done anything of worth for God in my 50 years of ministry. That wasn't born in agony. And his point is that unless it's something that is gut-wrenching to you, or God has shown you a piece of his heart and said I want you to do this, I want you to do something about it, then there's a good chance that it's actually something that you're wanting to do and not something that God is calling you to do. There should be a pain and a frustration associated with it, because it's something that God has uniquely placed before you, and I think about. You know Isaiah 6. Isaiah finds himself in a very famous passage. You know the year King Uzziah died. Have you ever?
Speaker 2:seen Fury Fred. Oh, I haven't seen anything. You know that.
Speaker 1:This is a movie I cannot recommend, because there's just enough swearing to curdle milk. Okay, it's, it's a lot, but there's a. There's a portion in this where these guys are stuck in this tank and they're staying. Uh, when they shouldn't, they could run, but they're going to do everything they can to fend off this massive group of nazis that's pouring in and they're going to try to they can to fend off this massive group of Nazis that's pouring in and they're going to try to fend them off. And they get in this conversation in the inside of this tank as they're waiting for all these people to show up.
Speaker 1:And this guy I think it's Shia LaBeouf's character, actually and he's talking about reading this passage in Isaiah 6, where God asked the question you know who will go for us, whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Who, who, whom shall I send and who will go for us? And you know, and Isaiah responds here am I send me? And the guy in the tank is saying they're saying, like man, I'll, if somebody has got to die for this, if somebody is going to go fight this, I'll do it, I'll, I'll be, I'll be that guy. Such a powerful spot in that movie. I mean, it's so good, maybe, maybe look up a clip or something. But the um, the implication is interesting, because if you keep reading it, it's the same problem that Jeremiah had, because God sends them and says I want you to go to a people who are stiff necked, who, and I want you to preach the gospel to, I want you to tell them what I've told you and I want you to know that so that they will be ever seeing and never perceiving, ever hearing and never understanding. He says weary these people, basically with the truth, and that's that's not fun, like that's a, that's a horrible. Like God, I don't want to do that. I want, I want everything to work out, I want, I want you know, to succeed at this endeavor. But, but if God's goal for you is faithfulness, that process you got to let God wrestle with you and win, quit fighting.
Speaker 1:And it's good, as a Christian, to walk with a little bit of a limp understanding that what God has called you to, you are not capable of succeeding.
Speaker 1:God calls people to things that they are unable to do on their own, so that it would not be about you but about what he wants to do through you. And I would say if God has called you to do something that you have no problem doing and is easy for you, it may not be what you think it is, or you're going to get there and find out that all the skills you have are turned on their head in a very frustrating way. You have are turned on their head in a very frustrating way. All the callings in the Bible seem to be God calling people to things that they're unable to do on their own. God taking people to places that they don't want to go, to produce in them what wouldn't happen if they didn't go, and to produce in his story of history what he wants to do through broken people where only he can achieve it. It kind of jumbled, but I hope that helps.
Speaker 2:I think that covers the question at hand for sure. All right, let's see You've covered a few of these oh, excuse me, a few of these in the past, but one of the questions that we've seen I've seen a couple times in our letters or emails really is how can I share my faith with friends who are spiritual but not Christians, without pushing them away?
Speaker 1:Be yourself. Yeah, I mean, nothing is more repugnant than somebody who you know that you're friends with. That immediately comes off like they're trying to sell you something or is trying to embody someone that they are not when they're telling you the truth. I think a wise person looks for opportunities. A wise person knows how to speak to the moment and what's actually going on. But I would say it is really important that you are not trying to evangelize the way that somebody else will evangelize. I think you need to bear the truth and speak it when the moment comes, in a way that is most natural to you.
Speaker 1:Now I say that not saying the most natural, because sharing with somebody you know is not a natural thing. It doesn't feel great, it's not socially acceptable, it's probably not comfortable, but there is a way you're going to do it where the person is going to know at least he this is the friend that I have that is talking to me about this, versus this is my friend channeling somebody else and he got really stiff and weird and off when I you know, when he was trying to be honest. Right, if you had a conversation with your buddy and you were having, let's say, a vulnerable moment where you're discussing something you're wrestling with, you would do that as yourself, and what I've seen is some people try to become someone else when they share. The other thing that I would say is is patience. Just be patient.
Speaker 1:If you are solid and love Jesus and are doing what God has called you to do, over time, uh, that person you may not have to speak to that person that person may come and ask you Um, when I was in, uh, especially in kitchens doing stuff, it was like all these people that made fun of me for being a Christian, uh, eventually would come up to me and ask me for prayer when crap fell apart in their life, and I always thought it was interesting that, look, people make fun of the person who's moral and doing the right things, but when their life falls apart and what they thought was stable is no longer stable, they'll look for stability and they'll look to people who are solid and they'll want to ask you questions and at that point, you have a wide, open door to share whatever God is calling you to share. Now it might be worth rehearsing your testimony a couple of times saying it out loud to the couch.
Speaker 1:You know saying it to the wall a couple of times, but don't do 12 minutes. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Get it down to two and share.
Speaker 1:Share what's going on in your life. A really easy formula is I was but God, and now I was this stuff. This is what was going on. Here's what God did. This is what I knew. Something changed in my life. These are the changes I see going on now. Are you interested in that? Because, if you are man, I'd love to invite you to be a part of what God has called us to. This is how, um, it's not complicated. We make it over complicated because we're just nervous about sharing with somebody. Um, but um, just to encourage you, if you're listening to this and you got people, uh, that you're with, I want you to know that there are people in your circle that I can never reach. People are friends with you who would never be friends with me in a million years. People are going to be excited to hang out with you that would never hang out with me, and God has put people in your circle precisely because you are the best person to reach that particular individual. Do it?
Speaker 2:Absolutely Hope that helps. I think that's a good way to look at it. Being yourself is always a good way to start those conversations Don't be weird, dude, don't be weird, don't be weird, but let's expand that bubble a little bit. When we're talking on a more cultural scale and as a church, as an individual and even as a big C church, holistic body of Christ, how do we get involved in I'll call them political matters, social matters, in a way that does not detract from the gospel being foremost?
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you're more pumped up about political topics than you are about Jesus, that's a good indication that something's probably wrong. That's a good indication that something's probably wrong. If you are hiding behind Jesus so that you don't have to talk about political topics, that's also a massive problem, because Jesus has something to say about every area of life. Absolutely, and we would want to speak into all of those different areas. But I would say the best thing for you to learn to do is to just be honest, and if you don't have an answer and you're not an amazing apologist it's okay to have an opinion and not have a thousand facts before you engage in a conversation around that particular topic. So if we're talking about just hanging out and talking with people, I think when stuff comes up, somebody is going to make a snarky remark at some point.
Speaker 1:It's okay to disagree and we live in a world today where people will just burn friendships down over a comment. And I would say well, if somebody burns the friendship down over a comment, I would say invite them back later to do the same stuff. You don't be weird about it, you don't try to lose the friendship over it, but go ahead and be honest. The worst thing that you can do is allow that kind of person to continue to go unchecked or unchallenged by solid truth on an ongoing basis. Look, silence is not your friend. Jesus was not silent in his ministry until he was ready to die and wasn't interested in getting out of that situation. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:The other thing that I would say is ignorance is not your friend. So, as much as I would say it's okay to not have every answer, I would say before you make a statement, you should study up on it, you should be thoughtful about it and be willing to be wrong If somebody else has a great point that you haven't thought up before. So, um, again, dialogue is fine and um, don't, don't shy away from dialogue, don't shy away from those conversations. Those are the ones that actually matter and, uh, reveal a little bit more about who people are. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And the note of studying up and being well-versed in what is at hand or whatever. When it comes to building good spiritual habits, bible reading, a good prayer life, one of the questions I've seen come up quite a bit is how do you avoid a burnout in that period? Yeah, and then how to like more practical, like a step-by-steps system, how to build these kinds of habits?
Speaker 1:Yeah, this is a great question. I would say if you're reading something and you run into something that you're unfamiliar with or that excites you, follow that train, just go. So if I run into something in a book and I'm like that's a really interesting idea. I haven't thought about it this way, cool. Well then I'm going to go and try to find literature on this particular topic. Look, I'm to the point where if I run into a word that I haven't seen in a book, I stop reading, I write the word down, I look the word up, I look at its different usages and who has used it at different points in history and how they used it. Just because it's that's I'm weird like that, but it's fun for me I want to know.
Speaker 1:Don't just read past something that interests you or sticks out. I would say that if that's the case, cool. Now study that topic until you feel a little bit more ready or a little bit more knowledgeable about that particular area and then keep going. And if you do that, you, you will find yourself down wormholes really fast in good ways, not bad ways, when you, when you catch something that you haven't caught before and your brain is working. Never waste inspiration, never, never waste it and move on and say, oh I'll, you know, I'll get to that later. Just don't just stop what you're doing and follow it. Same with the Bible If you're reading in the Bible, you hit something you know. You're like I don't know where the story is or what it means. Find out where the story is, go read it, learn about it, think about how it pertains to what this particular person was saying, and then and then grow in that. Um, just just being willing to stop and pull on a thread will take you a long way and becoming more knowledgeable about topics and ideas than you were before. And, uh, I don't know if I would call it laziness. Sometimes it's laziness that keeps us from that. Sometimes I feel like it's it's just the we've got a little bit of autism. You know where it's like I have to finish what I was doing. I can't stop. No, you can stop.
Speaker 1:If you're excited about something. Go read more about it, go go research more about it, go find books that talk about this topic and drink that thing down to the bottom until you feel like you get it, and then start again and keep reading where you were and find more stuff and you just the guys. The world is full of stuff and you can just do things All right, and I just encourage you. It's okay to stay up way too late studying something if you're interested in it. That's a good thing. Not a bad thing at all to be excited and be up way too late the night before and a little bit tired the next day because you found something you were really interested in. I wish more people would do that. You can always tell when you find that person too, because they're so much more fun to talk to. They got all kinds of fun little things to bring up and this quote and that quote and oh, okay, well, yeah, I'm excited to learn. Tell me more about that. Now everybody's learning about this topic and somebody else might go study it and get after it. But you will find, if you pull on those threads, a myriad of mentors and teachers and topics and ideas that you didn't know existed and wouldn't know unless you had taken that thread and pulled on it. So I think it's definitely a good practice just getting used to being curious about things and when you get a little spark of inspiration about a particular idea or thing, don't waste it. Drink it down to the bottom. See where it takes you Absolutely.
Speaker 1:A book I've recommended on here before is how to Read a Book. In the back of the book he gives like 400 classics that are potentially helpful for reading and he makes the point. If you read a book that has great footnotes and quotes other books and other authors in a particular vein, if you really like what they said, we'll go read their book next and in that way you can literally go from book to book to book to book to book, reading a bunch of stuff from people kind of in a different, different topics, but maybe the same vein of thought. That will take you a long way before you hit a wall and if you're doing it right, you're going to hit other inspirational bits and quotes in those other books or those other articles or those other sermons or whatever. They're going to take you to other places and soon enough you're going to find yourself in a world you didn't even know existed, realizing how little you know but actually growing in your ability to understand what you didn't even know was there before.
Speaker 1:So, the world is at your fingertips now more than ever, especially with the Internet and all the books published, all the podcasts. Go nuts, have fun.
Speaker 2:There's always somewhere that you can get the information you're looking for yeah, yeah, adventure is out there, indeed, very much so.
Speaker 2:Well, the last kind of question I want to pose to you is looking at, there's so much going on, just worldwide. We have the gospel, we have great news. We're just sharing it. But for those that are coming to the end right, whatever that end might be Of their life yeah, okay, be of their life. Yeah, okay. Um, how how would you encourage those who are seeing what is left behind and still have that hope for, uh, those who are not?
Speaker 1:yeah, great question. Um, so my, the first thing that came to mind for me was, uh, 11. God made all these promises to these heroes of faith In the hall of faith Hebrews 11,. You have this whole chapter of all these people who were great men of faith and it says that all of them died without seeing the full promise that God made to them fulfilled. Other people got to see those promises fulfilled. Other people got to see those things carried out. They did. They got to see, you know on the other side, what God had accomplished and how he was doing things.
Speaker 1:But, uh, the race that God has all of us on, I think is is more of a relay race than it is a personal race. We're to run and trust that the next person taking over and what God is doing in that next season is going to continue and he's going to be faithful and bring about what he said he would bring about. You focus on you, you take care of what God has called you uniquely to do and run really hard at that, knowing that whatever God said it's going to happen. I may not see it in my lifetime. I may not see all the promises that I thought would be fulfilled. But ultimately God is going to bring about his purposes. He's going to accomplish what he said he would accomplish. I love what it says about Moses in that passage. It says that he continued by seeing him who was invisible. You know, and I think about that in your own life. I would say continue trusting that God's got it from here. You know, and if you're at that point in your life or you're, I mean, maybe you're years from you know God calling you home, maybe you're a decade from God calling you home, maybe you're days from it I would say I would want to get my heart right to hear the words well done, good and faithful servant. I would want to tidy up any loose ends that that's calling people and asking for forgiveness. Do that, if that's people calling them and telling them you love them. Do that.
Speaker 1:Everybody says don't wait until somebody's funeral to say all the nice things that you were going to say about it. Say it to them while they're still alive, absolutely. And I would say, as you're approaching your own funeral, you should be thinking to yourself what are the things that I would want to say to people before I go and remember. Old age is a gift that's not given to everyone. Old age is a gift that's not given to everyone. So if you are in that season of life and you're older man, praise the Lord that he allowed you to have that many years and get to see as much as you got to see. And if you're younger, remember many people don't make it to old age. That's right and this is a reality.
Speaker 1:God tells us in I think it's Psalm 139, that our days were ordained before there was one of them. He's not confused or up there wondering what happened. Your days are exactly what they were meant to be. And I've said this for a long time, I think our lives are. They seem like chaos to us looking forward, and I'm like man. I don't know what's going to happen or where this is going to go, or you know what the plan is here.
Speaker 1:But you look back and you see God was writing a symphony, with all the different people and all the different circumstances and scenarios, and your life is a note held in the composer's hands exactly as long as it should be to fulfill the purpose that it had.
Speaker 1:You know, in that piece, and I think when we get to that point where we're staring at the precipice of what's coming.
Speaker 1:I think more things will make sense when we get to see it from, you know, looking back at God's perspective and what he wanted to accomplish. So somebody who's looking at the world and is like dude, it just seems like chaos right now. You know, the bigger the opposition to God's ultimate plan, the harder it falls before the feet of Jesus Christ. Absolutely. And just be encouraged by that and finish strong. I hope when I get to that point in my life I will have been faithful in everything God called me to, up to that point and would be able to breathe out knowing that I lived a life that was wrung out for the gospel and I did what God called me to do. And if that is not the case for you, I want you to know that there is so much grace from Jesus for those who will humble themselves, be honest, repent and trust him and trust his good plan, even if you only have a day or two left.
Speaker 2:Very good, all right, that sounds like a pretty good summary to me, that'll do we covered all the material we talked about, from calling to specific evangelism, all the way to the end of the line, Nice arc.
Speaker 1:Fred, nice arc, I didn't even realize that's what you were doing. Hey, I want to let you guys know if you have unique questions or other questions that you want to send in. There is a text to in the description of all of our podcast stuff. You guys are welcome to send us questions that you might have. Book recommendations, you might have topics you uniquely want us to cover. Send it in. We'd love to hit those things for you and, um, maybe quarterly we get a Q and a and so that we can knock some of this stuff out. But, fred, thanks for helping my brother Tim's absence today. Love you guys and, uh, I hope y'all have an amazing week. Talk to you soon.
