Navigate Podcast
Welcome to Navigate, we are two long term friends doing life and ministry together. I got tired of the same ole answers when I started looking for help when it came to my walk with God. So together we go deeper than most would on topics that most people have heard or were taught but never fully understood. It is our way of simplifying concepts that we may have over complicated throughout our lives. Bringing theology and life experience into each episode. It is our hope and desire to help Navigate your Christian walk with you
Navigate Podcast
Toxic Nostalgia
Nostalgia feels warm and safe, but it can quietly steal your future. We sat down to examine why “back then” can look so much brighter than “right now,” and how to honor meaningful memories without getting trapped by them. From worship setlists and Halo midnight releases to Ezra’s rebuilt temple and Lot’s wife, we trace a line through Scripture and everyday life that shows the difference between remembrance that fuels hope and nostalgia that freezes growth.
We talk candidly about the chemistry of early romance and why chasing the high can sabotage covenant love. We unpack the Psalms’ call to sing a new song, the sting of Ecclesiastes’ warning about idealizing the past, and Haggai’s promise that the latter glory can surpass the former. Along the way, we offer a practical framework for faith and feelings—shifting from information to allegiance—and simple habits that retrain desire: gratitude that names present mercies, creative work that reflects God’s image today, and pruning inputs that keep us living in rewind.
If you’ve ever said “my best days are behind me,” this conversation is for you. We share stories from ministry transitions, the kitchen-to-church leap, and seasons where the highs faded but deeper endurance took root. The takeaway is clear: memory is a signpost, not a home. The future in Christ must speak louder than the past, and hope grows when we face forward with trust, endurance, and simple obedience.
If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who’s stuck on yesterday, and leave a review to help more people find the conversation. Then tell us: what new thing might God be growing in you right now?
Alright guys, welcome back to Navigate. What's up, Justin? What's up, my brother? I'm starting to get used to this computer thing.
SPEAKER_00:Good. I'm proud of you. Yeah. I'm proud of you. I feel like I've always thought of you as on a screen, you know? Oh, thanks. High in the sky for all to see.
SPEAKER_01:I just can't stop looking at myself though. You know, should be looking at you.
SPEAKER_00:They say they say that every time you look at a photo, the first face you really look at is yourself. And uh I detest that, but it's gotta be true. It's my I don't know, because they say it.
SPEAKER_01:Gosh darn blue eyes that keep distracting me, I think.
SPEAKER_00:You do have beautiful eyes. All my kids got brown eyes, Tim. All of them. And I love I love brown eyes, but I was like, maybe one of the five I have would have like green, you know, hazel, maybe a combination of them. Nah, dude. My wife's genes just submitted every one of um of the genes that I had for my children.
SPEAKER_01:I wanted that for my daughters. Like, I want you guys to look like mom, but have my eyes, and instead they look like me and have her eyes.
SPEAKER_00:So kind of lost. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the exact opposite of what I was thinking.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, yes. So I stopped having them for that.
SPEAKER_00:Turn turns out they're made in God's image and and not ours, you know? No. Well, sort of ours.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I'm not a I'm not a traducian, Tim. Although I I like the idea.
SPEAKER_01:I I don't even know what to do.
SPEAKER_00:Do you want me to know Traducianism is the belief that the soul is actually a combination of um the male and feel uh female reproduction? Like your soul, God gave men and women when they come together the ability to create a new soul. So, like, where is the soul kept? In the loins, in the loins, and when you have a child, it's a combination. That soul is a combination of that man and that woman, and then God gives it unique life. Uh, that's that's traditionism.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Now you know.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. I will write that.
SPEAKER_00:Where does the soul come from? You know? Where does it come from, Tim?
SPEAKER_01:Jesus.
SPEAKER_00:At some point, we can have a we can have a whole conversation about the nature of the soul if you're interested and the sinlessness of Christ, and how how can he be all um uh totally, you know, um fully human or truly human and come from Mary's DNA, then actual, you know, body and not be affected by sin, which is why there's such a big common uh conversation around uh the soul in general and um you know Jesus' um birth. And this is why uh Catholics came up with the idea of the Immaculate Conception, because they're like, Well, Mary had to be perfect for him to have Mary's DNA and also be perfect, anyways. Another time you were not going that direction, and I don't at all. I really took you a long way the other way.
SPEAKER_01:We're gonna talk about something far less interesting now. So thanks for that.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I don't know about that. It might be easier to follow.
SPEAKER_01:This is actually something you've brought up several times, and we've never actually addressed it.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:My sexuality? Is that is that so Tim, those were those weren't recorded, all right? What I dress up as in my spare time is is for me and and you, all right. I'm so glad we're not doing video so you guys can't see any pictures of my stretchy pants. No.
SPEAKER_01:I want to talk. I want to talk about nostalgia.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, okay. Okay. I was uh tell me uh tell me your thoughts.
SPEAKER_01:So I got a couple, man. I was uh talking to one of our worship leaders here about doing a kind of a throwback worship night. Okay, we got on the topic of why doing old songs isn't always a good thing, and for certain reasons, um, mostly because we shouldn't be living in the past constantly, we need to be looking ahead.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I mean, you yes and no, like especially with worship. Um, scripture tells us pretty clearly in the Psalms that we're to sing to the Lord a new song, you know, and it's kind of funny that there are entire churches that are like we will literally only sing the hymnals all the time because anything new is of the devil. Well, maybe not, uh, but I will certainly say there's good reasons why older music is better than some of the newer stuff that's coming from.
SPEAKER_01:Well, it's kind of what I was bringing up. I'm like, well, what if the new stuff sucks? You know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like some of these old songs, um, you know, they just they hit different man. They're associated with different times in our lives, they're associated with moments where God uniquely just wrecked us, right? And so every time we hear that song, uh, there's something in us that is like this song. I will never not worship to this song. I will never not give it my all for this song. There's um uh do you remember Man of Sorrows by um uh Hill song back in the day? Every time I listen to that song, it wrecks me. Though you slay me by Shane and Shane. I I freaking love that song. And it's not a bad thing to like continue to go back and enjoy those things. I don't think it's a bad thing to go back and and listen to them um at all. And I would actually say if somebody sang with worship, you should kind of be continually making new stuff and ignoring the old stuff. Well, that's I mean, then get rid of the Psalms. You know, I I mean I don't think that's totally true. However, if you're never uh using who God has uniquely made you to be to enjoy, come up with, and create new things, you might be ignoring God's uh command too as well. Like we are supposed to create, we are supposed to make things beautiful, we are supposed to be um uh practicing the whole made in God's image thing, which means taking his good creation and and making new and beautiful things with uh, you know, with the the goods and the ability that he's given to us. So I think there's something there, but nostalgia is a little bit more of a difficult word. Like Tim, explain what you mean by that. Because when I think of the word nostalgia, I'm I'm thinking of looking back at something with um not just a love for that time, but almost a regret for the now.
SPEAKER_01:Well, let me bring this up to you. I think you get a kick out of this, get a little nerdy on you. After that conversation, I went home and my YouTube showed a recommended video from 18 years ago. Okay, well, it's like that's weird. It was a video of Halo 3 midnight release, and these kids did a vlog. Dude, my nostalgia just hit the ceiling watching this video, right? I remember that. I remember that time, right? I did I was exactly like those guys. So are you, right? We were all so excited for this one.
SPEAKER_00:I saw a GameStop, Tim, that still had the the Halo, like the original Halo backdrop on the side of it. And um, somebody was like, When are you when are you gonna change this out? This is ridiculous, and their response back was uh when a new when a better game comes out, we'll take it down.
SPEAKER_01:I was like, well played, two shit. That's awesome. But one of the comments was like, This video made me sad realizing we used to be a society back then. Like we we used to be a proper people. Yeah, it cracked me up. But I'm to what you just said, uh yeah, that's what I'm thinking of. Like, I remember those times as being better.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, I think about there's a couple things I think about. Like one of my one of my favorite stories in the Bible that I feel like has layers of complexity that better represents um real life and real obedience and real faith in the moment is in Ezra, when they're rebuilding the foundations of the temple. You know what I mean? And we're talking about Solomon's temple was the old foundation, this beautiful, glorious, gold-plated, engraved, tapestry-filled temple that was beautiful and probably the greatest temple um that has ever existed, at least until um, well, depending on your interpretation of things, the the end of all things and the the temple that will exist there. Or uh depending on how you lean, you might just believe that the the church is the new temple and we are living stones that make up this particular temple, and that's sim, you know, symbology or whatever. But um, it says that as they laid the temple, there was a great sound that occurred, a great cry that rose up, and it was because half of the people there were weeping um uh like over the the fact that the temple itself was not nearly as beautiful um as the one that was made before it, and half of the people uh were rejoicing because the work was actually getting done. So there was this really interesting combination of you know people that were praising the Lord because it was such a good thing that you know that was going on, and the other half are sitting there like, oh my gosh, um, we're not even gonna get close to how things used to be. And I think there's a sense in which that is the case, you know what I mean? Like our hearts kind of sit, I think sometimes right in that spot um where we have a love for the things that are going on and we appreciate the things that are going on, but at the same time, we oftentimes want to look back and we almost weep over the things that we've lost. Like innocence lost is hard to deal with. You know what I mean? Um uh relationships that you used to have that meant something really valuable, and being being lost to time and trial is a very difficult thing, and being able to look back on those things fondly. There's a there's a big place in um biblical literature and in the uh in theology for remembering like the whole idea of uh the the ordinance of the Lord's table is this picture of we are remembering what God has done and we're celebrating uh his death, burial, and resurrection until he comes back and we get to share this cup with him in glory. So it's not as though remembering things and looking back is bad, but Ecclesiastes 7:10 is a great verse. I talked to my kids about this as we've transitioned from uh Colorado and ministry there and all kinds of different stuff to where we are now in Texas, planting King's Banner. And it says, do not say, Why were the old days better than these? For it is not wise to ask such questions. Don't don't look back and be like, How come it used to be like this? Or how come things used to you know function this way? Wisdom doesn't ask the question, why is why was something better then than it is now? It's not something that you're gonna fully be able to understand. And ultimately it's gonna make your heart sick because you're not looking hopefully towards the future, you're looking backwards to where where now you believe your hope actually lies. The my my best days are behind me. This is where you get the the Uncle Rico complex. You know what I mean? If my coach would have put me in in the fourth quarter, you know, I would have took state, I'd be soaking it up in a hot tub with my soulmate right now. You know, it's it's I would have thrown a football over the mountains mentality. And here's something I know our um our belief about the the past is always painted with rosy-eyed glasses. Like when we were in those moments, you don't think that they're that awesome. They're good moments and we remember parts of it. But uh, if you went back there, you would find that that moment that was glorious you didn't realize was as glorious as you uh as you will in the future. You know, you're you're you at that moment are plagued down with uh financial problems and other relational problems and the difficulty that comes with just life in general and the stuff that we're trying to do. We have a really hard time enjoying the moment when the past is actually or other things are speaking louder than what God is actually doing, which tells us what that right now, right now, we're gonna be looking back on one day with fondness, thinking, oh my gosh, if I would have just realized those were the best days, you know what I mean? It would be so much better. There was a there was a movie with Owen Wilson, Tim, you know, I was just thinking about this movie, right?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, yeah, just thinking about this movie.
SPEAKER_00:And he he finds a uh carriage or a car that takes him back to the golden era. Yeah, you know, in that in Paris. That's what it's called. Thank you, thank you. And every time uh he he goes back to this place, the people that are there are talking about their idea of when the golden age was, and then they find uh you know, a car or a or a you know a cab or a chariot or whatever that's gonna take the I don't think it was a chariot, a carriage. That's what I was thinking. A chariot, how far back we go, and um but they go back even farther and they think those were the best days, which means what? Well, we're technically in the best days now, but we don't have the ability to enjoy it because we're broken people who who tend to glorify and look back on other things that God gave us in our story, um, but are supposed to drive us forward, not anchor us backward. And and I would just say this loud and clear to anybody who is in Christ. If you're listening to this podcast, just just stop and think about this for a second, okay? Your future in Christ has to speak louder than your past. Your future in Christ has to speak louder than anything else that's in your past, because in Christ, what lies before us is always greater than what lies behind us. Now, this is what he says to him in Haggai in that passage where they're building, you know, the temple up and getting things set up. And he's like, look, you you you see what's happening now, and there's brokenness about this, and there's joy about this, but I tell you with certainty that what I'm going to do in the days in the future is far greater than anything that is happening right now, take heart. Don't be upset about it. In Christ, uh, remembrance is a good thing. I would almost say that nostalgia is a faulty interpretation of our past that is not um not a true reflection of how things were at the time. You know, and and if we allow ourselves to look back on the past and do the I wish it was this, I wish it was that, if only I would have, if this would have happened, I don't think those things are from God. Or according to Ecclesiastes, I don't think that's from wisdom that we ask those questions. Um I think that actually does something to our heart and to our mind and to our future that that can almost be damning and lead us to miss what's going on in the moment from a mental standpoint and also be lead us to miss what's happening in the moment from a spiritual kingdom, what's going on right in front of our face kind of mentality.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I remember watching that movie 17 again with Matthew Pierry and Zach Efron. Yeah, we're really we're doing a lot of pop culture today. I'm proud of you. We are. I'm sorry, but uh I watch a lot of movies too much. Such a nostalgic movie. But that I'm watching it, I'm like, God, it'd be cool to be 17 again. Yeah, I would do so much, so many things different, you know. I wouldn't make that decision, I wouldn't have dated that girl, whatever. But then I started thinking more, I'm like, I don't want to. Like the amount of crap I had to get to, get through to learn and figure out where I'm at now, like I don't want to go through all that again. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Every man's every man's um when you look across the spectrum of people, every man perceives a mountaintop or a valley, you know what I mean, depending on the person that you're looking at, but ultimately everyone else's perception of where they're at is not the same thing. You know what I mean? Like you someone may think that this person's on a mountaintop, but actually what's going on in their life is a valley. And uh if your we've said it before, but if your perception of yourself is the only perception of yourself, it's probably the wrong perception of yourself. And uh, if your interpretation of the past uh is just that, it's just it's your hindsight thinking through nostalgically what something was, it's probably not the right interpretation. And I think God who sits, let's say, outside of time, if you want to say it that way, um, I think he sees it as one beautiful masterpiece being weaved together. It's the it's the tapestry that he's putting together that is beautiful and is serving exactly the purpose for which he created it to be, and is writing a redemptive story. And if you're in Christ, that story is glorious, and one day you get to turn the tapestry around and not just see all the you know all the crazy, scraggly, you know, pieces of yarn or whatever everywhere, but you actually get to see the beautiful picture that he painted. And in Christ, I think we're called to look forward in faith, not not backwards in nostalgia.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I see this with uh older Christians. I'm gonna talk to you about this. Um, I hear stories like man, back in the 70s, back in the 80s, back when I was part of this church, this group, God was just speaking to me, he was doing things, and now it's like nothing. I mean, they still read and pray, they're still faithful to just it's not what it used to be. Even their faith today is not what it used to be back in the day. Like it was more exciting for back in the day. Yeah. And I do that too. I reminisce a lot on the kitchen days with you, right? Yeah, that's when I felt the most like truthful into who I was in Christ, man. Yeah, those kitchen days.
SPEAKER_00:I heard a guy one time who used to do a ton of ministry, um, doesn't go to church anymore, not really interested, still would say he has a relationship with God, but it's become this deeply personal, like, um, doesn't touch anything else, doesn't take steps of faith. There's a bitterness at God that he carries. And he said this line, he said, I remember when God used to use me like that.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I remember thinking, oh my gosh, like that is not that is not the way that you think about your relationship with God. That is that is the heartbeat of toxic nostalgia that is corrupting your future. And I would I would even say this sacrificing your future on the altar of looking at your past. And we we cannot get into a place in our life where we think that you know something that used to happen to us is more important or better than where God has us right now. I mean, do you think, well, and this is I mean, this is the case, but you think Noah or um Moses was in Israel, you know, or uh in in Egypt doing all these different signs and miracles and everything else, and like, you know, he got into the desert and he's like, man, remember when I split that sea in half? You know, remember when I was calling down plagues on that false god Pharaoh? What a loser. You know what I mean? Those were the those were the days. Now I'm stuck out in the wilderness with all you people, you know, who just want quail. You know, like I I think I think the Israelites even got caught in this trap of looking backwards. In in Exodus 32, there's this portion where it's talking about the the Israelites. They're the term is stiff-necked people, but the word for stiff neck there means head on backwards. Like they're constantly looking back at Israel, and oh, we had pots full of meat, and it was so much better. And you know, they're making this calf, right? Which is the the god of provision for the Egyptians, and saying, This is actually the guy who got us out here. Like there's this tendency to reinterpret the past with your current emotions about the present, and it makes neither of them accurate. Neither of them in that moment is coming from a place of sanity, it's not coming from a place of worship or trust in God or hope, but hopelessness. Faith breeds hope. Faithlessness breeds despair, but uniquely despair for the moment. And then you tend to take that despair in the moment and translate your past with your emotions now. And it's I'm telling you, man, it's it's a damning thing because what the Israelites ultimately lacked around every turn was faith. And I would say maybe even a practical application for this would just be gratitude. They were never thankful for the constant miracles that they were experiencing right now in the moment. Um, another picture of this, somebody who handled it better, right, is Joseph. He's in prisons, he's in all these different places, and God is continuing to bless him and meet him and do amazing things in the moment. And even though he was in a really difficult spot for a massive portion of his life, you never hear him looking back in fondness or wishing he had done things differently. He's only looking towards the future and using the gifts that God had given him in that moment. And his story is so much more glorious than what it would have been if he would have let the past speak louder than his future. I mean, this is this is uh the exact opposite for the Israelites. God tells us in Hebrews 3, well, and in Exodus as well, but that those people will never enter my rest. They will never enter. You're gonna die in the wilderness with your head on backwards, wishing that these days were more like the ones now, or wishing for the things that you at one point were begging God to deliver you from with fondness, thinking that it was actually better in those moments. It's just, it's just crazy how our perception can lie to us about the way that things actually are. Like emotions just make terrible gods. And to me, nostalgia, in the way that we're talking about it, is is a sacrament, you know what I mean, to to a faithless person who wants to worship the past and refuses to honor God with the future. And we have to be very careful with our hearts not to land in the place of the Israelites, but we want to look more like Joseph. And even in moments where you've been a part of something in your past and you're seeing that the work that you're doing now is not even half as cool or half as awesome as the thing that you used to be a part of, the weeping and mourning that you see in the moment is supposed to be a testament to faith that God is not done. He's not done writing this story, and he's not done uh working through this picture. I mean, I'm in such a unique position now, Tim, in my life, because I'm doing um, I feel like I've gone from ministering to literally thousands of people and training pastors and elders and doing all this stuff to, all right, I'm back on the ground floor. I got my living room full of people, and we're just worshiping and praying and getting after it. And I love it and I see God working in the moment. And at the same time, there's this check in my heart right now where I'm like, oh man, this is tough. This is definitely a different foundation and a different place from where I came from before. I felt the same ways when I left the kitchen and doing executive chef work and being recognized. Tim, I mean, I don't know if you remember, but we literally had people coming to our kitchen to train their own staffs on what it's supposed to look like from menu writing and everything. And I shifted over to kitchens and I or to to full-time ministry work, and I was like, man, this is really hard. But I remember in those moments being like, yeah, but this is what I prayed for. I wanted opportunity to do new things for the Lord. I wanted to rebuild some of this stuff, even the same, you know, um, place in my life right now, looking at where we're at with this church plant. And I'm like, man, I wanted God to do this. He called us to do this. There's there's so many good things ahead of us. And if we look back, uh, oftentimes we're gonna miss the faithfulness of God right in front of our face, miss the miraculous things of God right in front of our face, and we'll be stuck like the Israelites with our head on backwards, constantly interpreting the moment um with the past instead of allowing the goodness of God and our future in Christ um, you know, to speak louder than those things and transform us into who we're meant to be.
SPEAKER_01:That's a hard thing to do, right? Because I have often thought, like, man, if I just had the same relationship I had with God back in the kitchen, my life would be so much better. It would look so much different. I would be not doing this, I'm I'm sure, what I do now, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, I think people think that about their marriages too. You know, uh it's like when we got married, it was amazing, it was so good, you know what I mean? And now I'm uh, you know what I mean? It's like it's just it's hard, it's not necessarily where we want everything to be. And I uh I was um listening to somebody talk about this, Tim. They were talking about the chemical response to somebody when you're in the first like throngs of of love in a relationship with somebody. They're like the dopamine high that you're on is the equivalent of doing cocaine for six or nine months. Like, I mean, your your body is just producing this unsustainable amount of euphoria. And then when you actually like normal out and your body is doing what it's supposed to be doing and not just feeding you crack every single day, we're like something's wrong. I don't I don't understand. We lost the magic. No, you lost the cocaine. Get on is it really a bad thing that you have come down from that crazy high that you were a part of and now have come down to who you actually are? Is that a bad thing?
SPEAKER_01:And the answer should be no, no, it's well, you're chasing that high.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, you're still chasing that thing, and which tells you that happened, you're like, I'm doing something wrong, right? Which tells you I'm no longer chasing the person, uh, I'm chasing the feeling that that person provided me at a given moment. And if I'm no longer, you know, getting the cocaine hit, actually, I'm I'm addicted to the chemical, it had nothing to do with you. So I'm gonna be constantly in this cycle of chasing, you know, dopamine hits and like this chemical reaction in my brain rather than the person themselves. And we have to remember like, look, the it's not as though in your marriage the former days are better than what they are right now, it's that you're actually more truly yourself in this moment and you're working towards something together without all the fireworks and explosions and everything that go along with it. It's why I always laugh at like the bachelor and stuff, Tim, because they they're like, I'm gonna take you and put you on Paradise Island. And um, you know what I mean? We're gonna find out who your true love is and who you would go with in this environment. I'm like, cool. So take them away from jobs, kids, church, frustrations, irritations, give them a steady dose of vacation for like all this time, and then come back home with this person and see how long it lasts. I'm like, well, that's you you kind of got set up there. And look, the reality is God gave you that brain chemistry to help you come together with that person and for it to become something beautiful that you guys would work on together. But it's a lot like getting a fire going. You start with a lot of fuel, you start with somebody else high, you know, a lighter or whatever, getting that fire set up and ready to go. Um, and then after that, you're gonna have to feed the fire. You don't just get to pour gasoline on it nonstop. Gasoline is bright and burns hot, and it also disappears really quickly. And it's the the logs that you're putting on the fire that actually sustain the things. And and it's uh it's important that we know that. Like in our own life, are we trusting God that his process and his way is more than just your emotional response to the moment? It is is the work that you're putting in and the thing that you're actually a part of bigger than just your feelings or your feelings always going to trump the work that God is actually doing in faithfulness to him. And unfortunately, most of us treat um our now like a junkie and not like a saint. And in Christ, we should be saying, no, what Christ has said is better. This marriage is better, these kids are better. Me being myself is better, this job is better, this place that God has me right now is part of this trajectory that he has me on. And I don't want to go back to square one or to square five or wherever I was because I enjoyed that feeling better, because that's just feelings driving all the things that you're doing. Um, 40 uh Isaiah 43, 18 and 19 is like one of my favorite places. It's on the wall in our house. Uh, Tim, it says this do not call to mind the former things or ponder the things of the past. And again, we're not talking about um fond things to look back on, like the like the resurrection of the Son of God. Okay, we should we should look back and remember why we're going forward. But if you think about the things that we're supposed to look back on in scripture, they're things that are supposed to help us move forward, not things that help us live in the past. He says, Um, so thus says the Lord, who makes your oh, I'm sorry, do not call to mind the former things or ponder things of the past. Behold, I will do something new. Now it will spring forth. Will you not be aware of it? I will even make a roadway in the wilderness, rivers in the desert. And it's I love that. Will you not be aware of it? Because he's literally asking you, Are you gonna pay attention enough to see what I'm doing? Are you gonna live in the moment and let me speak louder? And trust me with the new thing that I'm doing, even if it's in the wilderness, or you constantly gonna be walking with your head on backwards, wondering why God did this to you. I saw this pastor today. Somebody shared a clip from a uh pastor from Bethel Church. Um I won't get into that at this moment, but he said he had a vision uh in his room, and he said he had really been uh hurt or frustrated by a pastor at his church, and he said he was in his room and he had a vision of God, and God gave him this big hug, and God told him, I'm so sorry. And he said, You know, God, why are you apologizing to me? That's not a thing. He said, No, no, no, no. I don't I you need to understand that that the church is my body, and my body um treated you badly, and because of that, I need to ask for forgiveness. And I'm like, dude, no. Like, you know, heresy alert, red flags going up. God is not sorry. God is not up there like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that happened. That's crazy. I, you know, I thought I knew what was going on, but I just I dropped the ball. I got to apologize to you. God is not a man, He is not up there uh freaking out about what happened or misunderstanding your story or misunderstanding what's happening. We're not supposed to look back on things and let that define what's going on in the future. Um, we are supposed to look back on things to allow Christ to transform our future and allow us to live in the moment with faithfulness. And so I think um for people who had this experience early on where God was really doing something amazing, and you're like, man, this this is so good. I would want you to know that that moment took you to where you are right now. And it's no less important in your story. That the the the road that God has you on is unique and it is yours and it is impactful and important and part of the story that God is writing. And and like the you know, the the Bible says, like, who are you, oh man, to talk back to God and say, Why did you make me like this, or why is this my story, or why am I, you know, why are you doing these things? And we want to ask that question, like God, how come, you know, my story is this one? Why did you do these things? You know, if God made me this way, you know, I mean, why is this the case? And and ironically, the the Bible doesn't answer that question. It just tells you, God made you a particular way for a reason. He's your creator, he knows. You don't get to talk back to God. He's not going to apologize to you for the grand story that he's putting together because you think you're a victim in the moment. Faith looks forward and says, I was made for a reason. I'm walking in my purpose, and God is doing a glorious thing through my life, whether I can see that or not. Jesus said it was for the joy set before him that he endured the cross. And uh Hebrews uh chapter 12 tells us that we have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood. So let us go forward, let's keep walking. Um, and even in that text, it talks about the you know, since we're surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us continue. Like I and I I think about that because it's coming off of Hebrews chapter 11 with the Hall of Faith, Tim, and it talks about all these men of faith and everything that they did, and how many of them did not see the promise fulfilled in their lifetime. Like Abraham had the promise for uh blessing for tons and tons of people across the nations, you know what I mean? All the nations of the world will be blessed through you. The you know, the Genesis 12 and Genesis 17 kind of promises that he gives to them. And he didn't see that, he saw a son, a son. You know what I mean? Like technically two, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're right. Well, no, one son of the flesh and one son of the promise, right? But one and a half. Do you believe that what God is writing through your story is something that is beautiful and truthful, even when you can't necessarily see that that is what he is doing? Do you trust him? And those great stories of faith that we have were written by people who didn't necessarily get to see the fulfillment of those things, but stayed faithful through the end. And that it says, since we're surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, well, it's like this uh let us run the race with endurance that has been laid before us. The the picture that it's painting, Tim, is of a Colosseum. It's painting this picture of like the Greco-Roman, you know what I mean, like the Olympic Games. We're surrounded by a cloud of witnesses, and we're supposed to run this race that's set before us almost like all of these heroes of faith are in the stands, who have already finished the race, who have already done this, and are with bated breath looking at you and saying, Man, keep going. Don't quit, don't look back, don't look behind you, keep running towards the upward calling in Christ Jesus, like it tells us in uh Philippians 2. We're supposed to, or Philippians 3, we're supposed to run after God and what he has called us to do. And I really do believe that there are saints up in heaven who have already finished the race, who are in fact looking down and seeing what we're doing and what we're a part of. I don't buy into the whole um everybody in heaven is totally oblivious to what's going on down here. I actually think if angels look into these things and are interested, and if angels are seeing what's going on in our timeline, uh, I do think that that there's an involvement with the saints and what's going on uh down on earth. And I think that's I think that's important. So run the race that's laid out for you with endurance, knowing that there's a cloud of witnesses who have gone before you and walked this thing out. And don't spend all your time with your head on backwards, because that's no way to run a race. And you have tons of verses like this, right? Jesus says, No man who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service. You can't you can't get things done if you're constantly looking back at what was happening in the past. You're you're just not going to be able to do it. The the greatest testament to this in all of scripture is Lot and his wife, right? I love that we don't even know her name. We just know she was salty.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like that's I mean, it's funny, but but it's true. Like all we know about her is that she was the person who looked back at with fondness at a reprobate and disgusting time that God was trying to save her out of, and because of that, was not saved. And I hate to say it, but I think there's a lot of people who are offered the promise of salvation, who instead of looking forward. I mean, do you think at a point she was like, Man, remember when those angels showed up at our house and wanted to save us and get us out of here? And you know, halfway through running out of the city, you know what I mean, looks back in fondness. Like I just it's such a it's such a testament to um what we're supposed to do and what we're supposed to look for in our lives and where our focus needs to be. And there is no hope in looking back unless you're looking back through it with the lens of where God has brought us now and where he's taking us in the future.
SPEAKER_01:Um is uh is faith not a feeling?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I think I've talked about faith a little bit um on the podcast. I think feelings are things that accompany thoughts. Feelings are a physiological response to uh to the inner workings of the soul. Like, think about it this way, Tim. Um I wouldn't have feelings about a donut unless I had tasted the thing, right? And once I've tasted something, then there's emotions and feelings that accompany it. There's appetites that that come with it. But I will tell you right now, I've watched my child fight when I try to give them something new and good. Like, no, no, no, you don't understand. This is a ball that comes from the center of a donut that is covered in cinnamon sugar and dipped in freaking butter. You're gonna love this. This is gonna be great. I don't want it. I don't want you know, uh what what do you do with that? You know what I mean? But once they taste it, suddenly there's this, oh, this is a good thing. So now I have feelings that are associated with the thing that's actually there. So I would say this you're good.
SPEAKER_01:Sorry, go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, you're good. I was just gonna say, I think feelings are associated with ideas and relationships. You know what I mean? So uh and and if I've had something in the past and something here reminds me of something else that I've had, sometimes we can associate the two correctly or sometimes incorrectly. This is why feelings make terrible gods or emotions make terrible gods. They're not supposed to drive your decisions. Logic is supposed to make you drive your decisions. Truth is supposed to help you drive your decisions, and then your feelings are supposed to follow the truth and catch up to you when you taste and see that God is good. But if you've been living on garbage, um, you're gonna have some issues, you're gonna have some problems. So if you're talking about um how how does faith and feelings affect each other, I I I brought up before, Tim, but this idea of um you know notatia, ascensus, and fiducia. Notatia is the right information that you're supposed to know about God, as census is assent to this information intellectually, and then fiducia is allegiance and trust in that God. I think a lot of people have information that they know is correct. They intellectually understand or assent to that information, but that's not the same thing as tasting and seeing because you actually did it. I think a lot of people know in their guts, yes, what God says is better. Uh, they know in their guts, yes, there's a blessing for those who do these things, but are constantly looking back and becoming a pillar of salt, something that's immovable, that can't be saved, that can't continue on the journey, and is forever in stone, um, set up as a monument, as someone who is looking back who could never turn around. Um, I think that's important for us to remember. Feelings will define your focus if truth does not. Feelings will keep you focused on one particular area if truth is not the thing that's leading you. But if truth is the thing that's leading you, you will find that your appetites and your feelings are redirected to healthy things because you'll begin to taste different things that you're supposed to live on and are supposed to lead in what you're doing. So feelings are are good things, Tim. But uh, if you catch feelings for another girl and you're married, that doesn't make that that doesn't mean that that girl is is better suited to you or a better opportunity or a better thing. Uh it it ultimately just means that feelings are fickle and do all kinds of stuff that they shouldn't necessarily do. This is why Jeremiah 17 makes the point that the heart is deceitful above all else and desperately sick. Who can know it? He's not saying that you, as a redeemed believer, whom God has given a new heart to, um, you can never trust what your heart is saying. Well, no, when it aligns up with the word, sometimes your heart does love the things of God and does want to pursue the things of God, but your emotions and your feelings don't get to decide for you what is good and what is true. And certainly feelings can tell you to look back and think about other stuff and other things and what used to be in an ungodly way that is actually taking you away from the moment or the faithfulness that God has called you to. Yeah. Yeah. True, true story. True story.
SPEAKER_01:So like I I just had a I had a thought when you were talking about the donut, and uh I think he kind of answered it, but I'll just bring it up anyway. But it's easy to remember. You don't have emotion unless you eat a donut, but I guess I would say if it wasn't for the dopamine hits when I first got saved with those days in the kitchen, and then those go away, right? Yeah, that doesn't seem fair because now it's like I'm recorrelating all these crazy successful stuff that God's doing with all these feelings and emotions, and now that's bad, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, no, that's good. Um, when a child is breastfeeding to him, like there's crazy dopamine hits and serotonin and connection and all kinds of good stuff, at some point he has to eat real food or he will never grow into the fullness of what he's supposed to be. Does it make what he got in the past any less important? No, because it was the beginning of the journey. But a child who grows up never knowing the taste of steak, I weep for. And unless you learn how to work the ground, how to hunt, how to kill, how to do those things, how to put the work in to become who you're meant to be, then you'll stay living off of dopamine hits and a feeling instead of truth. The feelings are supposed to propel you in faith, not the feelings are supposed to be your faith. And if we can't delineate between those two things, we're gonna end up being a victim and a pile, like I said, looking backwards instead of looking forward. So God has good things for us in the future and new appetites and new things that He wants to show us and wants to teach us. Even guys, Tim, that I know who have walked through cancer, which is like this man, thing that you wouldn't wish on anybody. Like, what a what a difficult thing to get a terminal diagnosis or whatever it is, um, have said to me, like, dude, I feel like I have learned so much from God in this season. It is crazy to me how much He is talking to me, how much I'm learning, how much I'm growing as I've loosened my grip on the things that I felt like I had to have, and this and that, and what a control freak I was. Uh, I met another guy who went through cancer and he said to me, I talked to him last week, he said, There are times when honestly, this is gonna sound weird. I miss the cancer. I miss it because I feel like, um, man, I was just more free because I was just totally dependent on God. And I knew that he was where I was supposed to go to, and he's my only hope. I need to stop relying on feelings and emotion and substitutes that are not really taking me to faith in God and pursuing what he's called me to do. And so, even as we look at life and some of the things that we're like, no thanks, all pass on that. I'm not interested. You have no idea what God has in store for those who love him and walk according to his purpose. There's good things that God wants to give us through this glorious story that he is writing in our life. But if we're avoiding the things that God is laying in front of us because we just want to go back to the bottle, there's there's something wrong. If we're stuck just drinking milk, and when God has glory set before us, um, you might be stuck fighting God on the good things that he's trying to do in your life in the name of, well, you used to do this for me. God's a good father, he's leading you, he's a good shepherd. He's taking you to a new pasture with new things, and we need not um doubt his goodness or his heart or what he's trying to do in our life. But again, nostalgia, I think, is looking back in doubt and looking back without gratitude and looking back in faithfulness, uh, faithlessness, like the like the Israelites looking back fondly at their slavery in Egypt rather than looking to the promised land and the miracles that were happening in the moment. Cool. All right, man. Well, I mean, I'll I'll probably close it up right there. Awesome. Well, hey, uh, for anybody who's been staring backwards for a long period of time, I want to encourage you that it's really hard to go from eating burgers and fries and cheesecake to eating like healthy food. Um, the same is true with your patterns of thought. If you've trained your mind to look back and think fondly and devour the emotions that are associated with the faulty perception of your past, it takes a lot of work and training your palate again to enjoy the good things that is happening now. And my recommendation to you would be add things in that encourage you in the future that God has for you now and put away things that are keeping you looking backwards. So if that's old songs, old books, old movies, even old pictures that are continuing to keep you living in the past, I want to highly recommend to you to put those things away and start reading, growing, watching, hanging out with people who are keeping your heart, your mind, and your gaze forward in faith instead of backwards uh in nostalgia. So right on. Well, love you guys and man, hope you have a great week and we'll be back at it again soon.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. All right, guys. See you all next time.
