Navigate Podcast
Welcome to Navigate, we are two long term friends doing life and ministry together. I got tired of the same ole answers when I started looking for help when it came to my walk with God. So together we go deeper than most would on topics that most people have heard or were taught but never fully understood. It is our way of simplifying concepts that we may have over complicated throughout our lives. Bringing theology and life experience into each episode. It is our hope and desire to help Navigate your Christian walk with you
Navigate Podcast
Faithfulness
What if the win isn’t a bigger platform but a life that can untie from the dock with a clear conscience? We sit down with East Texas pastor and church planter Teddy Sorrels to trace the narrow path of faithfulness in a world obsessed with celebrity metrics and seeker pragmatism. Anchored in 2 Timothy 4, we talk about preaching the word when it’s costly, why the gospel’s offense is actually mercy, and how sober, text-driven ministry reshapes everything from sermon prep to daily habits.
Teddy shares the winding road from small country church to megachurch staff to planting Living Water in Gladewater. He lays out practical rhythms for preaching the whole counsel of God: planning the year, embracing hard passages, and “hiding behind the text” so people leave with Scripture, not a personality. We dig into the pitfalls of nose-and-nickel scorecards, the rise of platform culture, and the quiet freedom that comes from measuring success by obedience and disciple-making rather than attendance alone.
The conversation moves from pulpit to home as we discuss marriage, fatherhood, and the kind of steady leadership that builds legacies. Teddy opens up about learning to give his wife his first energy, not leftovers; encouraging young families to live simply so they can disciple their kids; and calling men to courageous, gentle responsibility. Together we paint a picture of ministry that works hard without worshiping work, holds strong convictions with patience, and prepares people to endure.
If you’ve felt the pull toward shortcuts or the fatigue of performance, this one will recalibrate your compass. Press play, share it with a friend who needs courage, and if it helps you, leave a rating and review so more people can find the show. Then tell us: where do you see the biggest drift—and how are you choosing faithfulness today?
Hey everybody, welcome to Navigate Podcast. Uh, I am pumped to be here with my good friend and co-labourer in the gospel, uh Teddy Sorrels. Teddy is pastoring a church in Gladewater, Texas called Living Water. How many years have you been doing that now, man? So September, this past September will be four years since launch. Champ. And you you you planted it yourself. This wasn't a takeover.
SPEAKER_00:No, we planted it. It was a full-fledged uh out of nothing that only God can do in his miraculous power. God gave us the uh vision to reach people in Gladewater. And living Living Water Church is the result of that. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, you were telling me just about demographics in Gladewater and everything else, too. And because you wanted to get out and you wanted to go somewhere else.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I wanted to go to Denver, right? And so because lots of lost people in Denver. Yeah. And uh I want to go tell lost people about Jesus. Yeah. What a better place to do that than to tell people about Jesus and then the mountains. Yeah. Front range mountains. And I'm like, we've had I had some church partner relationships in Denver. Uh, but the Lord just I was born in Gladewater, raised in Gladewater, been trying to leave Gladewater my whole life. Yeah. And the Lord just burdened our heart for those people. So funny.
SPEAKER_01:God tells you to stay and God told me to come.
SPEAKER_00:Right. You know what I mean? So welcome, welcome to East Texas, my friend.
SPEAKER_01:Something cool is happening down here. Um, I I met you, man, and I have been blessed just getting to know you and hearing about kind of your your faithfulness, where you've been at.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I wanted to talk about that a little bit with you today because hearing you talk and you're you have a a fighting spirit in you that wants to fight for things that matter, and you care deeply about that. And you've been in ministry now for 14 years.
SPEAKER_00:No, so total, so I was at my first church almost 14 years, and then went from a small country church to a big large megachurch, was on their staff as their missions pastor, church planter, strategist for a couple of years, and then at Living Water Church now for four years. So that so almost 23 years in vocational mentors.
SPEAKER_01:That's fantastic. And you you have um you have a degree in teaching or preaching.
SPEAKER_00:Preaching. Yeah. So my undergraduate was at Dallas Baptist University uh in Christian ministries, and then I did two masters at Liberty, a master's of theological studies, and then Master of Divinity and Church History, and then I did my D Men at Southwestern in preaching. Nice, man.
SPEAKER_01:That's fantastic. All right, so I got a verse for you. I want to read it and I want to talk through this together with you because I think it it's a well-known verse that most people know, um, or uh text that most people know, but I think it it's important that I want to talk about today. Yeah. And kind of the the water that we find ourselves in uh in the Western world. Second Timothy chapter four, uh one through eight. I'm gonna read it and then let's chop it up a little bit. I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom, preach the word. Be ready in season and out of season, reprove, rebuke, exhort with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but wanting to have their ears tickled, they would accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance with their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths. But you be sober in all that you do, endure a hardship, do the work of evangelists, fulfill your ministry. For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith. In the future there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge will award to me on that day, and not only to me, but also all those who have loved his appearing. I love this text because it's just this just a solemn commission from God. Uh just just a handgun on the table statement from the Lord that this is this is what you are called to do. This is what I'm asking you to do. Tell me about the drift you're seeing from faithfulness in churches in general. Tell me about some of the what you've been seeing in the water uh in the Western world today.
SPEAKER_00:I don't know how long your podcast is. Well you just go like you know it is so you might need to do you might need to do several several hours on this. Um what I have a tattoo that's on my right bicep is that 2 Timothy 4 7. I fought the good fight, I ran the race. In in Koine Greek, of course. That's correct. And yes, and so it's not a good tattoo unless somebody else can't understand it. I don't care if someone else understands it. I do. Uh it was uh my friend who led me to the Lord. Uh he died of cancer, and that he that that was his, he had we came up in ministry together, he led me to the Lord. Uh I was radically saved. He was radically saved, and God had called us to reach men for the gospel.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And uh we started our own men's group at the church that we were in, Iron Sharpens Iron. Uh grew up in that. Um I I took my first church, so I kind of left that church that he was in, um, kept ministering to men. Um he uh got uh pancreatic cancer.
SPEAKER_01:Still one of the worst types you can get.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and so uh they gave him ten months or seven months to live. He lived for ten months, but he sitting in my office, he was crying, and I was crying, and uh we were just praying, and and he said, Teddy, uh I've spent my entire ministry, and it was a short ministry, ten years spanned his entire ministry. Yeah. Uh I spent my entire ministry showing men how to start the race. Uh I am under great conviction that whatever the Lord has left for me here on this earth, I'm gonna show man how to finish the race. And uh so we started Man Church East Texas because of because of that. And uh it was that text. And so when you look at that text, man, did you I'm sure you did. Did you go through the imperatives in that text about preaching the word? Yeah, uh, it's like you know, so if you kind of reprove, rebuke, exhort. So preach the word, preach, patience and be ready, reprove, rebuke, exhort. Um, for there will be a time uh and tickling of the ear and endure, you know, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of evangelists, fulfill your ministry. Like that is your question was what do you where do you see where's the drift? Where's the drift? Well, it's there. It's that last, it's that last, it's verse five. But you be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of the evangelist, and fulfill your ministry. That's the drift. And so, and and not just, you know, I'm Southern Baptist, and and welcome, by the way, to the Southern Baptist uh Southern Baptist world.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'm in I'm enjoying the ride and learning all the time.
SPEAKER_00:Praise the Lord, and and everybody has their own issues, but it's not just Southern Baptist as far as evangelicalism is concerned. Yeah, that's the drift wherever you happen to find yourself in the evangelical world. Uh, we see over, you know, ministry has become so many of us have adopted our culture and celebrity focus. And yeah, it's all, you know, how do we elevate our platform? How do we become, you know, this celebrity status? We have this big Eva, if you will, uh celebrity. And then everywhere you turn and everywhere you look, you see these uh great falls of from the faith, and it's because they have elevated themselves and they're not sober in all the things that they decide that they want to do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I feel like there's a there's a massive push towards pragmatism, and that pragmatism has taken people to um a place where they're willing to to bastardize the gospel. Right. Or you could say it bastardize the holiness of God and his standards in the name of what what's working best. You know what I mean? You have all these people who, you know, if you want to call it the seeker-friendly movement or whatever it is, but man, if it's if it's working and it's getting butts and seats, it must be what God wants for us. Right. And then you end up in a situation where I think you you have to cater uh what scriptures you're using, cater what language we want to use in certain texts, cater, you know, cater to um a mediocre group that is looking more for community and networking than actually being transformed by the gospel. You you said something the other day that I thought was really good. You said I think people have forgotten that the gospel is supposed to be offensive.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. Well, the the scripture says it's offensive, and we get caught up in our world and ministry, and I and I think I brought this up, and this is the reason I said it, because if you look back with that secret sensitive movement and post-World War II, right? You know, so you have you have a number of things that are happening in evangelicalism going into World War II. You had the great liberalism had already progressivism has already infiltrated academia. Yeah. Uh infiltrated might be a mild word. Right. That's a mild word, right? Overtaken. And so war so up to World War II, the men of the home were still leading in their homes. Yeah. They were still leading in their churches, they were still even teaching in their churches. World War II takes all of those men away from their churches. And at the same time, you had the feminism start to begin. Start to begin in in earnest. And then the sixties, then the sixties hit. So the greatest gener this is what I was telling you. That's how it came up. I remember our conversation. The greatest generation uh gave uh birth to what I would call the the most progressive generation, the boomers that we have ever that we had ever seen.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so feminism has come out of that. Uh you know, this radical progressivism, this radical liberalism has come out of that from the boomer generation. Um men left their churches, they came back in churches for I mean, for a lot of good reasons, that women took over the leadership of the church. There was no other, there was no other way to keep churches going. And so when they came back and then raised their children in those churches, the women had taken over. And I'm not saying that there's not anything God has a place for women in the church.
SPEAKER_01:And that's the that's part of the thing, though, is that God actually does have a place for women in the church.
SPEAKER_00:And so, but that whole progressive mindset infiltrated it had now come out, it had now it was complete control of academia, and so it came into our seminaries. Uh the for Southern Baptists, uh, the conservative resurgents kind of turn turned that around, and it's only historically speaking, that's the only mainline denomination that's ever done that to stop the push of progressivism in in the church. Yeah. And so we and and then on the after the conservative resurgence, you started seeing, especially in the Southern Baptist world, these uh pinnacle type A charismatic leaders that were growing their churches, and the megachurch started just, you know, taking over taking over and out of, and in that movement, that secret-sensitive movement started taking place. And then so now they started Sunday mornings, then became a place not where they were proclaiming the offensive gospel of Jesus Christ, it became how can I not offend someone so that we can get, like you said, butts butts in the seats.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so our whole our whole dynamic, the whole paradigm shifted and how we measure success. Instead of measuring success by how many disciples we're making, yeah, we measured success by how many people are showing up on Sunday morning.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I I had a buddy I was talking to who's basically making the point people stay oftentimes at churches that are are not preaching, let's say, uh a full gospel, you know, uh you want to call it a high octane gospel, whatever it would be. Um, they're they're staying at these churches, they're being baptized into these churches, but they're being baptized into a version of the gospel that is not offensive. They're being baptized into a into a uh a type of congregation that doesn't understand covenantalism. What are they even being baptized into? Like what is the what is the thing that you are giving your life to in that moment and saying, I've been rebirthed into this, yeah, if it's not the true gospel in in the first place? And I I think there's uh I think there's something real to be, you know, dug into there. How do you, you know, how do you get to a place in your life uh and you've been in ministry for a while where you feel like you are not um you're not counting noses and nickels uh to feel like you're being faithful in what you're doing. Because there's a let's be honest, like on the ground floor, there's a real pressure when you're trying to build a church, especially as somebody who's planting to try to cater to each individual person as you're walking through this process of you know ship being a shepherd. Um how do you how do you um be okay with pissing people off and at the same time uh trying to love people in that process? What's the what's that dynamic look like for you?
SPEAKER_00:I think it's I think it's a a struggle. It's a struggle, like it's always going to be a struggle because you want to be faithful, right? You wanna you wanna be obedient and you wanna see a fruit of your labor and and all these things. Like you wanna like if you're a goal-oriented guy or if you read all the leadership books, like for me, I my leadership style comes out of the military and and in all the leadership training that you have everything you learn from stripes, right? Everything I learned from stripes. No, real, so real army training. Um you like you wanna measure success, you know. So how do you measure success in ministry? It's really hard. Right. And so you can't like that struggle always exists, but if you look at the Apostle Paul and and you know, that text, you know, the 2 Timothy text that you brought up at first, you know, he said in verse 6, where I'm already being poured out as a drink offering at the time of my and the depar time of my departure has come, we know this to be the end of his, this is his last will and testament to Timothy. Like these are the last words written historically that he ever that we know of that he ever wrote. And he's writing to his beloved son in the ministry, and it's in a it's a letter of encouragement. And although there are some solid imperative verbs for him, you know, hey, this is what you need to do, and this is what you need to pay attention to, it is a letter of encouragement, and he's and he's saying, Now I'm at the end of my life, I have been faithful. He says, I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, and I have kept the faith.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Timothy, you go and do the same. Like, you know, so die well. Die well, right, and so finish strong. And when we think about remaining faithful and how we measure success, you the question that you asked me, how did you how did you figure it out? I don't know that I figured it out, but it took me planting a church for me to finally realize that I have I have to change how I define success. Personal, like it needs to be grounded in scripture.
SPEAKER_01:Like it has like faithfulness has to become success, not success equaling some kind of faithfulness.
SPEAKER_00:Because God has called me to be faithful. Yeah. That's it. Uh everything else, everything else is like if you're a big Godter, right? If you believe it like God is big and he's sovereign and he's huge and and God handles all the rest of it. Yeah. God's called us to be faithful and and we and we have and we have to do the work. Now, don't get me wrong, that's a part of where I said the drift has happened. You know, do the work.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, actually, actually get into the test.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you can't you can't just sit back and just think that it's just gonna, hey God, I'm faithful. You know, I prayed, I prayed this morning. Now I'm gonna go play golf and spend the rest of the time, you know, you know, helping my wife cook dinner. Like I don't, I'm not saying that that's not a good thing to do. Yes, if you have the opportunity to help your wife cook dinner, then do so. But you also have to work. You know, pendulums swing. And as human beings, we love to operate in extremes. Yeah. You know, one side of that pendulum. Uh, but you know, forever it was, you know, in ministries work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work, work. Yeah. Uh, and then it was like, oh my goodness, all these pastors are failing and and and moral failures after moral failure. And then so what's causing that? Well, it's because they worked too hard.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It was never because they worked too hard, it was because they were abject failures in morality and they were sinning.
SPEAKER_01:They weren't working on their character at the same time, they're working on their craft.
SPEAKER_00:But it was, well, they worked too hard and they sacrificed their family on the altar of ministry. Yeah, you've heard that over and over and over again. And there's some of that. Don't sacrifice your family. God's never called us to sacrifice our family.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Don't do that. But then now we're unless you're Ezekiel and he's like, I'm gonna kill your wife. And now the pendulum has swung the opposite direction to where now we're having to get, I mean, especially like in the like I like I help train church planters and assess church planters and those kinds of things. And a lot of church planters that we're getting through, it's like, well, you know, I'm gonna plant a church, but I'm only gonna work about 10 hours a week because I got my family, you know, I'm not gonna sacrifice my family on the altar of ministry. And I'm like, uh you are in the wrong.
SPEAKER_01:You just told me you're a stay-at-home mom who has a side gig.
SPEAKER_00:You can't, this is never gonna, this is never gonna work for you. Yeah. And so trying to fight that and bring that back to just being faithful is means do the work, you know, it's all here. Be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of the evangelists, fulfill your ministry.
SPEAKER_01:So so let me ask you, how do you uh, because you've been doing ministry for a while, how do you stay faithful in the text with preaching when it comes to um uh let me put it this like not relying on old work that you did before, but staying faithful in the word and mining it for fresh, you know, insight from the Lord, fresh stuff that you how do you do that? Because even the even the average person who's going through the Bible tends to their eyes drift towards the things that they've already highlighted or underlined, you know, and when they're reading through it and they're just trying to get something out of it, and you can get stale really fast, living off of old fruit rather than doing the work to see new fruit come out of the ground. How do you do that? Uh like as you've been preaching and working on it, do you have some rhythms that keep pushing you?
SPEAKER_00:That's a good word, rhythms. Uh, I don't even like to use it, but it is a good word. Uh, I think it's sometimes over. It's you know, it's it probably is it means something.
SPEAKER_01:Guys, our our podcast is getting trendy. I'm so sorry. You pray for my poor decrepit soul.
SPEAKER_00:Right. So uh so the rhythms in preaching, like I think you have to have a good, healthy understanding, first of all, of your call to preach.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh God's called you to preach the totality of God's word, not just your favorite text. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Listen, I hope Stephen Furtick is listening to this podcast. Right. Stephen, if Steven's listening, let me let me share the gospel.
SPEAKER_00:Steven, come on the podcast, we're gonna talk about it. Yeah. So the totality of God's word means what? Well, it means the very first words in Genesis to the last words of Revelation. And if you really want to get it all in there, you include maps. And so you have to have a good understanding of what your calling means. All of it. Yeah. And so for me, and it took me a little while, like my first two years in ministry, man, I had zero items before I did any education. Like I had started doing some Bible college. I had zero, I was already pastoring my first church. Yeah. No idea what I was doing. Like, if it wasn't for Adrian Rogers and Love Worth findings for the first two years of praise God for Adrian Rogers, right? I would have zero, like I would have no sermons. They were all just reworked Adrian Rogers sermons. I'm not saying I plagiarized.
SPEAKER_01:The original chat GPT was just pastors reworking.
SPEAKER_00:Reworking, reworking, reworking Adrian Rogers sermons. Um, but as I continued in my education, as I continued to understand uh what preaching the totality of God's word meant, that meant it meant that I had to get another rhythm for me, was that I had to adjust how I was planning my preaching. So, first of all, you have to have a good understanding of what it means for your calling to preach all of God's word. Then secondly, how do you plan that out? Because anything worth doing is worth planning. Yeah, that's good. Right? And so if you're not like if you're one of those each Sunday is a different sermon and you have no idea where you're going until Saturday night, and oh Lord, give me something, please. Wasn't it Ben Franklin who said a man who doesn't plan is planning to fail? It's planning to fail, that's correct. Uh then you then you are setting yourself up for failure, and you're setting yourself up for a lot of things, not just failure and not and being a good steward of what God's called you to do, but also getting in trouble. Yeah. Like plagiarism has become extremely a big deal in preaching today, and and it blows me away that some of our biggest leaders are okay with it. It's like, you know, yeah, I told him he could use my, you know, use my sermon, however, you know, there's nothing new under the sun. I'm like, well, that's there's something different, and you're telling somebody that, and then somebody verbatim, preaching word for word everything that you said and calling it yours. That's right. Not doing the work. Yeah, don't do the thing, just take, you know, use somebody else's. So you have to you have to plan. And so one of the, and I read it probably about 10 years ago, uh, don't hold me to that as gospel truth, but Stephen Rummage, Dr. Rummage, um used to be a solid preaching professor, and now pastor, uh former pastor, and now he's the executive director for the Florida Baptist Convention. Uh, he wrote a book called Planning Your Preaching.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Completely changed everything for me. Like from where I was just now starting to preach through entire books of the Bible, series, preaching series, uh, planning your preaching taught me how to take my whole year, all 52 weeks, yeah, and plan my sermons out. So that way when I pray about what my people need to hear from God's word, I'm looking at all of God's word. Yeah. And then I plan, and then I plan that out. So understanding your calling and what it means to preach all of God's word, planning your preaching, and then uh be faithful in the hard text.
SPEAKER_01:I feel like there's a prophetic nature to it when you do it that way too. Because if you tell your congregation this is what we're gonna be preaching through, and then you hit something in the text that speaks directly to what they're going through, yeah, they don't get to look at you and be like, Well, you did that. You know, no, man, God did this when I planned this, you know, eight months ago to go through this particular text.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Absolutely. Uh, I have a had a had a preaching professor, uh uh Dr. Osborne, uh, Chris Osborne at Southwestern. Um, he pastored at uh in Texas AM for forever, Central Baptist Church. Uh he's got a ministry tree that just explodes. It's huge. Lots of AM guys get saved and and then they go, then they go and preach. But uh Dr. Osborne is a I'm a text-driven guy. Like I'm a text-driven preacher. And uh I asked him in in one of my doctoral seminars, I said, so why are you so adamant about uh being a text-driven preacher? And he's so text-driven that he preaches from the Greek, like yeah, like that's what he preaches from. And he said, This is the reason why I'm a text-driven preacher. He says, Because I get to hide behind the text. I'm like, Well, what do you mean by that? He says, Well, if I'm preaching the text and someone in my congregation gets ticked off at me because they don't like what I said, yeah, I get to then say to them, You're not mad at me. Yeah, you're mad at what God has said, thus saith the Lord. Yeah. And so if you want to be mad at God, that's between that's between you. What you that's between you and God.
SPEAKER_01:What you said too about um you preaching the whole council of God, right? Like front to back, Genesis to Revelation, I think there's something in there too that drives me. My my um when I'm looking at teaching a particular series or something, I like to pick books that I feel like I'm less familiar with than other books. Just the challenge, because if I'm learning and getting inspired by something that I haven't spent enough time in, yeah, I feel like I'm it's easier to help other people catch fire and enjoy something.
SPEAKER_00:And I think there's I think there's a lot to that because you want to you want to inspire, like you want to be inspired, like you want to uh learn, and we're always learning, and you want to be better at your craft. Yeah, preaching is your craft, you know. Hopefully you want to be the best at it that you can possibly be. Yeah. So diving into those uh less familiar texts, less familiar books, uh, you ever just want to get real uh dangerous, preach through judges all the way to the very end.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, all through 19, where they're cutting up the person and setting up all of the all of those rules.
SPEAKER_00:You know, genocide's a big is a big uh word these days. Let's preach through judges. Uh, but something else about what I would encourage you to do, even when you're thinking about planning your preaching, is that you also need to be a good shepherd, right? All of God's word is is applicable to everybody's life at all times in every era. Yeah. However, like for example, most recently, some of the political things that have been taking place and Charlie Kirk's uh martyrdom. And uh man, you know, there was so much oh man, you're good. I I made a noise with the the your podcast.
SPEAKER_01:Your podcast producer is gonna be very producer, already took care of it. You're it was like magic for you guys.
SPEAKER_00:You're welcome. You're welcome. But there was so much back and forth about well, is your pastor going to address Charlie Kirk. Charlie Kirk. And if your pastor didn't address Charlie Kirk on this side of things, well, you should leave at church. And then on this side of things, it's like, well, you preach the God's word, you don't worry about what anybody else says. Like I I agree with both of those things. Yeah. Like preach God's word and don't worry about what other people say. But I also I'm a shepherd of my flock, and my flock needs to hear from their pastor, from their shepherd, from their elder about what's going on in the world culture. Yeah. So for me, it just so happened that I happen to be in a great text. Yeah. Uh that's how great God's word is. Like I didn't have to change my sermon, but I would have. Like I would have changed to something uh in the text where God addresses that particular situation, not only politically but culturally in the things that we're doing. And so when you think about preaching through a text, don't get so rigid. Yeah. And where you're not also acknowledging the fact that, hey, things are going on around you and you might need to you might need to adjust.
SPEAKER_01:But don't you think that if somebody, let's say, is preaching through a particular text um and they're not addressing what's going on in culture, it might be that you're using old material and not actually allowing what's in that text to speak. I don't know. I I might be crazy, but I really believe if you're teaching through a text, what's going on during the week and in the world around you while you're putting that text together has a lot to do with what's going to come out of your mouth on a Sunday because God tends to speak to you in the text and then, you know, you get the you get the parables from the Holy Spirit throughout the week. You know what I mean? Of what he's showing in you these particular I think that's what kind of keeps you uh inspired. That's what keeps it um in some sense it's a living word.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, right? Well, absolutely. Yeah. And there's a difference, like is there a difference between a preaching professor and a pastor preacher? Yes. Right? Yeah. Professor, it's his job to teach you how to preach. Yeah. You know, what your exegetical study looks like. How how are you communicating to your congregation? What are your illustrations look like? Are you doing deductive or inductive? Yeah. How are you walking through the different genres of the text and what how do you address apocalyptic literature versus, you know, you know, just word for word or word for word, trying to somehow cram uh uh actual uh metaphorical language that is in Daniel and make it literal language. You know, how do you so a good preaching professor is going to teach you these things. Yeah. But as a pastor preaching to a congregation, you need to know all those things and how to prepare a sermon and preach it and effectively communicate it. But if you don't apply it to real life and culture in their lives and how they're living their lives, then all you have done is copy what you're what you have learned. Like you've you've become a professor. And there's I'm an automaton. Right. And there's a place for that, don't get me wrong. And even there's even a place some of that in the pulpit. I think that you can do some good teaching from the pulpit and you should.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But that teaching falls short if it's not applicable.
SPEAKER_01:I think a teacher's job is not just to interpret the word, but to interpret the world. You know, those things happen, I think, together. But I I agree, there's there's times when you're teaching principles and practices and things that go along with it where it's not necessarily nothing, not every message has to. Connect with well, this is what the world is. That's not it, because we want to show people Christ. But I think the goal is to show people Christ through the text and what he would have to say about scenarios and things that we're seeing. And I think if you're if you're mining it to your point and you're faithful and you're working in it, there should be some inspiration from what's going on that that addresses what's happening. I had this uh quote from Martin Lloyd Jones that I I love. He says, What is preaching? It's logic on fire, eloquent reason. Are these contradictions? Of course they are not reason concerning this truth ought to be mightily uh eloquent, as you see it in the case of the Apostle Paul and others. It is theology on fire, and a theology which does not take fire, I maintain, is a defective theology, or at least a man's understanding of it is defective. Preaching theology coming through a man who is on fire, a true understanding and experience of the truth must lead to this. I say again, a man who can speak about these things dispassionately has no right whatsoever to be in a pulpit and should never be allowed to enter one.
SPEAKER_00:That's that's strong, right? I mean he's I love I love that.
SPEAKER_01:Uh well he's a preacher, right? So you know what's coming out of him is not uh is not the teaching side that's that's there is pure passion.
SPEAKER_00:So there is so much. Again, we could do volumes of podcasts on preaching. It is it is what I love the most about the ministry that God has called me to. Love it. Like I will, if the Lord gives me the opportunity uh to preach until if I die in the pulpit, it will be the place to drag your body out that I desire to die. Um, and there's so many things to be said about preaching and and how to be a good preacher versus a bad preacher. And ultimately you you've got to be, it starts with the foundation of being faithful to the text.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh outside of that, you're just making your own stuff up. Isegesis becomes your your go-to move. And we see a lot of it in our pulpits today. So many, and I'm not like I'm not against topical preaching, but but topical preaching outside of building it upon the text. This is what the text says about that particular topic, not what the topic says, and then you go find a text to suit what you want to say.
SPEAKER_01:Do do Spurgeon, not not Osteen, you know. Right.
unknown:True.
SPEAKER_00:Uh and even Spurgeon could get caught up in some uh some bad eisegesis. Uh but that doesn't mean he, you know, that doesn't mean that he wasn't trying. What I'm getting at is that if you're preaching, and and this is something else, you know, just kind of to push back a little bit about what uh Lloyd said and and and to say about passion and being passionately on fire. Like you need to have passion, and like I'm a passionate guy. Yeah. But one of the most profound things that I ever learned and in from a preaching professor is Matthew McKeller. As a matter of fact, he pastored here in Tyler, Sylvania. Oh, nice Sylvania Baptist Church. Okay. He pastored there for like 25 years. He's now uh like the head of preaching at Southwestern now. But he's, you know, when we when we got into the first doctoral seminar, we had to walk through the pastorals. So we had to translate them, uh, then we had to set them up in pericopes, preaching segments, and then we were assigned two two preachings uh top not topics, but two preaching segments that we had to preach to the class. Yeah. And so I'm like, so we got to pick those segments prior to the seminar starting. And so I picked this one, the this text. It was the last one because man, I'm all over it. Like I'm yeah, like I'm like this is your this is in your bones. This is in my bones. Like I got a tattoo, you know, to to show you know the text, man. I'm and I'm gonna knock it out of the park. I'm gonna be so so amazingly.
SPEAKER_01:Did you just get tear it apart?
SPEAKER_00:No, not so much. Uh, but I did get critiqued, and that was his job and Dr. Osborne's job. And and you only you know, you like I'm a modified manuscript guy, yeah, not an outline guy. Yeah. And so like you you're only allowed to take, you know, a little five by four, whatever the the postcard size is, into the pulpit, and you had to preach from that, which was fine. I was able to do it, but I'm just you know, passionate, you know, hammering down on pulpit, you know, fire on theology. And man, I'm like just giving it all I got. And at the end, they give you their critique. Yeah, you know, like they don't just get to go sit down, they send it to you in an email. Get the tomatoes ready right now.
SPEAKER_02:Here it comes.
SPEAKER_00:And he goes, Teddy, you are a good preacher. And I'm like, all right, here it comes. He says, and he and I love this because he says this all the time within the wheelhouse of who you are, I want you to always be passionate, Teddy. Like that's who you are. He says, but don't let your passion override what the text is saying. And so and then I was like, well, like what because we got to ask questions, like, well, what do you mean by that? Like, am I too are you saying I'm too passionate? And he said, Within the wheelhouse of who you are, here's what I'm saying. If people leave and all they say is, man, Teddy's a passionate person. Passionate guy, but they miss the message. And they miss the message, then you failed, then you failed. Yeah. And it it stuck in my gut like a knife right in your gut. Like, oh like all I've ever been told my entire preaching life was be passionate. Yeah. And like I, and I am, I'm normally just a passionate guy, anyways. Uh, but I took it to heart and I really tried to focus on all right, so if I'm gonna be passionate, you know, and HP Charles is my number one living preacher that I love to listen to. And he talks about elevate, you know, rising to the climax. Yeah. You know, don't don't get there in the very beginning or build up, build up to that. And so I started really trying to do that in a way to where people went because what I want the most from when people leave, anything that I do as far as preaching is concerned, I want them to leave and not say anything about me.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I want them to, I mean, sure, yeah, that was a good sermon, but I want them to leave with the text. I want them to leave with the word of God. Yeah, because it's only the word of God that can transform lives. Not anything that I can say.
SPEAKER_01:Think about uh Count Zinzendorf's quote preach the gospel, die and be forgotten. Die and be forgotten. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Let me let me ask you to shift, but not really much. Tell me about how faithfulness in your marriage and family has affected your ministry. I mean, obviously, you still have a church and you haven't blown it up, so something's something's going right.
SPEAKER_00:I'm still married to my first wife. Praise the Lord. Uh, which will be 34 years this coming February. That's that's what I'm thinking about. That's amazing. Come on, let's see. She's put up with me for 34 years. Marilyn has God has God's still building her house in heaven because it's gonna be huge. Uh because she's put up with me for so long. Faithfulness in my marriage and family has has evolved, right? Because when I first started, my sons were young, uh, six and or it's probably he Tyler's probably a little older, so eight and six. They grew up in church, moved out, uh, got married, had their own babies. Uh early in that, early in that I learned hard way. You know, I I learned how to balance work and in family and to the point to where both my sons got in high school, they're both athlet at athletes and played every daggum sport. Uh man, if I had any encouragement to families nowadays, I said don't let them play everything. Uh, because you're gonna be run, you're gonna be run ragged. You know, they don't have to play everything. I mean, you're their parent. You you do you tell them what's what's best. Yeah, but they did everything band, football, baseball, trash, just driving around like a maniac trying to kick it. And and full-time ministry. Like you got five kids. I don't even know how in the world you would ever it's an acid trip, man. I mean, we just we just keep rolling. Right. You just keep rolling. But you had you learn how to balance that. But one of the things that I neglected was not realizing that Marilyn needed my Maryland need Marilyn needed my faithfulness too. Like she needed she needed me. You can't miss your wife's heart right in the middle of everything else going on. And so like I had to learn how to um love her in a way that she's also got some of me. And so everybody gets some of me, and she can't be the last one to get some of me. She's gotta be the first one. Which is often the case. Right. She's gotta be the first one to get some of me. So I learned that the hard way. Uh, but God bless Marilyn, she always just faithful and uh never never once would she uh condemn me in public, never once would she be angry at me if we were out together and and people saw that. Uh all not that she was trying to hide anything, she just had this great respect for me that she would light into me when when we got home and later and just, you know, and really explained to me uh that that she counts and that she matters. And so learning that was hard. And then like this last season of ministry for me, it's just me and her.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Which is beautiful.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like it is, it's almost as if God has given me at this point in my life this amazing relationship with my wife that I would have never had had without without going through those fires. Yeah. And so now, Marilyn, like when I say Marilyn, and we see people say this all. I'm glad your wife's your best friend. Like people say that, but when I say it, I mean like I don't want anybody else to be my friend. Yeah. Like I don't need I don't need any other friends.
SPEAKER_01:I'm good. Like I got her.
SPEAKER_00:I'm good. I have my best friend, and it's Marilyn. And if I don't have anybody to go play golf with or hunt with or, you know, ride my bike with, or, you know, those kinds of things are fun to do. Like it would be fun. You and I went and played golf, but I don't need it. Yeah. I got Marilyn. You got your wife. That's right.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And you so so let me um let me shift a little bit in this. What would you say to um congregation, a word on faithfulness to guys who are in church getting after it? Tell me a little what what are some things that you would uniquely want to tell people on how to stay faithful? We're talking about staying faithful to the text, yeah. Staying faithful to your wives, staying faithful in a word where people are drifting. I feel like when people read this text, they see it exactly it's for pastors. And y yes, an amen. I get that. But ultimately, if an elder in a church is is the person that we're supposed to aspire to be as congregants, how how then do you how then would you communicate this to people in your flock? Like what does this look like if you're talking to people about just just being faithful in their own lives, not just in the pastor's life?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so you're right. It is Paul wrote that for pastors, wrote it for Timothy specifically. Uh in but in 1 Timothy chapter 3, he gives us the qualifications for elders and deacons. And uh my encouragement to men in my congregation would be look, these aren't these are qualifications that all of us should aspire to. Yeah. James says not all of us should presume to be teachers, and not all of you are going to be qualified to do so. But we should all aspire to that. We should all aspire, like it's because it's on my mind, you know, mighty men of God, David's mighty men. We should all aspire to be those mighty warriors for God.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:We should all aspire to achieve uh what God instituted as biblical masculinity, biblical manly leadership, uh, leading our families, uh, growing in the admonition of the Lord. It's Ephesians 4, right?
SPEAKER_01:Like walk in a manner worthy of the cross. That's right.
SPEAKER_00:Uh also uh in Ephesians uh chapter 2, well not chapter 2, it might, you know, uh uh grow up and act like men.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so these are these are things that the Bible teaches us in a culture that says that is completely contrary to that. Because, you know, for the last you know, three decades, any sort of masculinity would be categorized as toxic, you know. Yeah, and so now we have a culture full of beta males, pusillinous men, you know, roaming around. And it started way back with the whole, you know, I don't you're probably a little too young, but you probably know the word metrosexual, you know. Yeah, it started way back, you know, there, you know, with the guys carrying, you know, man purses and and those kinds of things. That's fine, whatever. You know, if you want to if you want to carry a man purse, go ahead, go ahead. Uh if you please don't, please don't tear it. If you want to wear tight, skinny. Yeah, you're not Indiana Jones in your high top. Yeah, your high top tennis shoes, uh, all those things are fine. But be a man. Uh you know, be a man. And then I mean I don't mean that macho ism. I'm talking about be a godly man. Yeah. Love your wife. Yeah. Love your wife like she's the treasure that God created her to be, that she is, she is the one that God gave you to adore and care for and and pray over her, be her spiritual leader. You know, people talk about, especially in the age of feminism, no woman wants to submit to their husbands, and I and I and I reject the whole, I reject the whole premise. The whole premise. Give me a Christian woman that has been bought by the blood of Jesus Christ and believes in the Bible, and a godly Christian man who is leading her in the ways of the Lord, praying over her and loving her and faithful to her. She will submit on purpose. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's the way God intended it to be. There will be there will be no fighting over that. She will love the fact, she will adore the fact that her husband is leading her spiritually.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and I think our culture too is telling people don't submit to your husband, submit to your boss.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:It's the same thing. You know what I mean? It's like instead of doing it at home with your kids in a loving environment, we're raising up literal immortal souls.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, instead do it for, you know, just enough money to pay for the meals and daycare, you know what I mean, and submit to your boss instead. Right. It's like, is that really your goal? It's like submitting to a random boss rather than submitting to your husband, and that's that's freedom from oppression. It's yeah, it's a little wild.
SPEAKER_00:It's weird, and and we're seeing it in our church, lots of young families like yours, uh, Justin, uh, that are that are Christian young families that are seeing our culture and saying, I don't want to have nothing to do with that. I want, I want, you know, wives, moms saying, I want to be at home with my children. I want to teach my children, uh, I want to love them and manage our homes like God's called me to be. I'm okay with living simply and my husband being the uh primary uh provider, protector, uh, the one who leads us, directs us, shows us what it means to love God and trust God. Um, we're seeing some of those things in our church. And because I've evolved from that early in ministry, like I was like, man, shoot, go to work, man. I mean, I need some help with these bills, you know. You know what I'm saying? Um and so evolve, and that's just because I was poor, you know, growing up, you know, the everybody's lifestyles are different. And so growing up, it's like, man, I I gotta get after it. And if you want to work, man, let's get after it together. And and so my wife works today, but one of the cool things that we saw early in our in our marriage, you know, especially once we came to know Jesus, was um she she couldn't find work. And so she was able to stay at home with the kids until school started, and then she had the she got a job with uh the school, yeah, as a lunch lady. Yeah. And so she was there with the kids at school as a lunch lady and then was able to come home with the kids when school was out. So case scenario. Yeah, so God just kind of worked that out. But hindsight, looking back on that, man, I I'm I'm directing all our young families to to guys like you and families like yours that that are that have figured it out. Like it it really is just a matter of living within your means and uh slugging it out, man. Learning how to live simply and uh it's you know, you don't have to have you know, you know, three car payments and a and a uh motorcycle payment. Like, you know, these are things that you don't need. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Uh you feed your kids and you I think the American dream and the Christian mission are different things. Yeah. I think if we try to put those things together, it actually gets really messy.
SPEAKER_00:Which is hard to do, you know, especially when you think, man, I love America, right? I love the fact that we live in the in the greatest country in the world. And uh, you know, I signed up to fight and die for our country, and you know, like that whole philosophy of pull yourself up by your own bootstraps. By the way, that's huge in East Texas. You're you're you're you're gonna you're bootstrap Christianity. Man, tell you what, it's it's hard to win them to the Lord. Uh but that's hard, it's hard to because it's uh it's a it's they're diametrically opposed to each other. Yeah. They they they are. You know, and so you've you've got to draw that line biblically and say, all right, I don't I'm gonna I'm gonna trust the Lord. Yeah. And I'm gonna be faithful to what God has called us to do. And everything else is if we get something that we love or like, or we're able to take a, you know, if you took your kids to Disney World and all five of them went, that would be like twenty thousand dollars. Who knows? Uh yeah. That somehow the Lord, the Lord blessed you with that vacation. You know, that's great, you know, but it's not because you know you went into debt.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, let's be straight. I'm not if I get that kind of money, I'm not going to Disneyland. We're doing something cooler. Yeah. Um well I think it's implicit in that it again is back to kind of what we were talking about before. There's a difference between faithfulness and success. And if you shoot for success, you you you're going to sacrifice faithfulness on the altar to get those things and not actually land where you want to. And uh, I think when you do that, you wake up next to your wife one day and you don't know who she is and she doesn't know who you are. And that's a that's a problem. I'd rather I'd rather be poor and love the person I'm with and be faithful to God than end up with a bunch of stuff uh without the relationships or the impact that Christ has called us to.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And uh, you know, Paul Paul's life, and I'm not saying it's a model for everybody, but let's be honest, man, the the disciples, the apostles, how they lived their life is radically different than I think the notion of life that we have today. And I think if you would look at their life and what these guys did at that particular time, you would call them failures. You know, they didn't have all the stuff, you didn't have all the things. You were, you know, you were not uh you you were not the the the paragon of prosperity. They they were living radically different. I'm not a prosper uh uh a poverty you know mentality guy either. I don't think that God has, you know, called people to uh uh you know uh a vow of poverty or something, but but there's something about how Paul finished where he had no problem uh releasing his grip on what he had. You know, he talks about joy and commissioning other people, and when he you know, the the in this last letter when I preach this uh to a to a big old group of men, I started out with the poem, Oh Captain, my captain. You know, and because it really is, that's what it is. It's his this is his last letter. He is breathing out, you know, ready to face death, and he is letting them know. And it's the ease at which he seems to be able to release life tells me everything about where his treasure lies.
SPEAKER_00:When he said I fought the good fight, man, he he he he was ready. Yeah. And even looking at his life and it was a different time, don't get me wrong. It you know, the way that prosperity would be measured in uh the first century uh you know, middle east is not how we would measure prosperity today anywhere in the world. Um it was just different. But everybody, even in America, can learn to live simply. Yeah. Uh and living simply just requires you defining what a simple life is.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And and then sticking to that. I think that we get caught up in all kinds of things, and nobody's perfect. Listen, when I tell you about the things going on in my life, man, I like I'm fifty-two years old and have too much debt. You know, like I'm not sure I'm not perfect. I look at my debt and I think, man, you were stupid.
SPEAKER_01:I gotta get it together. I gotta get it together, man.
SPEAKER_00:Dave Ramsey, help me, please. Yeah. I'm just gonna pay this off, and then we'll then we'll be all right.
SPEAKER_01:It's just gonna be gone.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Uh, but I do see it, like I see it, especially in those young families. Yeah. They are they are loving life. Yeah. Those young mothers that are at home with their children and uh loving motherhood and talking like we got a small group tonight that's at my house tonight, and you know, listening to, and they all have kids, just feral kids running around like they're crazy. They call them free range. I'm like, no, free range kids, they feral, man. They wild. Get a belt, man. Put somebody in the corner or something. Do something, tranquilize your dark, put them down. But watching them love their kids and their families and and and you know, like moms talking about, you know, being at home with their kids and thinking about, you know, how do I, you know, how am I a good mom, but I want to discipline them at the same time, and then going to scripture and learning, learning what that looks like and asking their husbands to uh to help them, you know, figure that out. Man, when I see that, because you know, we're we don't have a big church. Yeah, you know, you came and visited the other day, and I can I can sit 70 people in my sanctuary. Uh, but man, we've got five or six families that I look at and I think, man, if that's it, God, if that's if that's why we planted Living Water Church, man, I'm good. Worth it. Every bit of it. Yeah. That's so good, man. Every bit of it. That's so good. Because they're they're raised because they're discipling their kids, which will in turn disciple their kids, and they're building legacy families. And as long as the Lord returns and those families continue to disciple their families. See, that's it to me.
SPEAKER_01:Because the the word um in here for uh the time of my departure, the word I think is analysis, right? It's literally it's like a it's a term to to to to untie from the dock.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Like I'm I'm now to set sail, I gotta say, I'm I'm gone, I'm I'm it's loosing.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, loosing the tie. Yeah. So I just think about like the goal would be with your kids, uh, with your grandkids maybe, with the flock that you have, can you untie from the dock and feel like okay, they're good. Yeah. They got it. Right. And that's actually that's the goal of faithfulness, is not what did I build here for myself, but what did I leave so that I can untie it with a full heart going towards Christ, knowing that they know what they're called to do and how to get it done. That that's the I think um so many people spend their life building something that they it when they die, they're just gonna let go of.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:It's like, well, what what was the point? Well, why, why, mom, do you spend time at home? Why, dad, are you trying to fight hard for your wife's heart? Why, pastor, are you laboring in the word? Why are we doing all of this so that at some point you can untie with a full heart, knowing that you've given them what they're called to do because this is not it. Yeah, success here is not it. You are not building an empire, you're building the kingdom. And if you're building kingdom, it's immortal, it's eternal, and it will the word uh remain, right?
SPEAKER_00:Ripples, ripples in eternity.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's it. And I I just think um, man, getting to know you and talking to you, uh uh what I've heard from you is faithfulness. I'm just dude, I'd love getting to know you and hearing how you're fighting for that and uh engaging with the word in so many different areas, man. Any other any final thoughts on uh faithfulness for you?
SPEAKER_00:No, just uh finish the fight, man. Uh like that's that's my that's my life verse is when it's all said and done, you know, whether the Lord returns before I die or I die, whether when it's all over for me, this life, my life, this side of heaven, uh then it can be said that I fought the good fight, that I've ran the race that was set before me, and I kept the faith.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:If that can be said, that's what I want to be said about my life. And so that's it, man. Fight the good fight, don't don't stop, uh, keep going, one foot in front of the other. It's a marathon, it's not a sprint. Yeah. Uh you're not perfect. Uh realize that. Uh it's it's not your kingdom you're building, it's his kingdom. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and even just to reinforce that, he talks about now lays before me the crown of righteousness, right? And he says in other parts that you're the jewel in my crown. The crown of righteousness that you get has everything to do with the people that you disciple, how you poured into them. It's not a symbol of wealth for you, it's a symbol of faithfulness that you get to don um, you know, in the in the uh eternal state, right? Which is awesome. But yeah, brother, you're awesome. I'm I'm so blessed to have you on here. Any uh website, any uh stuff that you want to share with people?
SPEAKER_00:LWCgladewire.com is our church. Uh I don't have a substack or uh uh But you have a great beard. Well thank you. Yeah you can catch you can catch some of the stuff that I've written on preaching and uh equip equip the call. It's Southwestern Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Cool. Uh there's uh it used to be called Preaching Source. So I think if you just Google Preaching Source, that'll come up to equip the call. Like I've got several articles in there. Got another one coming out uh in a couple weeks on text driven preaching as a church planner. Um but yeah, you can follow me on on X at Pastor Teddy. Uh you can follow me Facebook, Teddy Sorrels. I don't know how you like it. Yeah, awesome. I'm even on Insta. I mean, I'm not for sure. Or is that called the Graham? Is it called the Graham? The Graham? I don't know, man. I'm not trending what it's called on Facebook. For that.
SPEAKER_01:I got ain't nobody got time to learn all that crap.
SPEAKER_00:I'm busy, so it's it's it's whatever. Uh yeah, but uh yeah, yeah, that's it. Well, hey man, thanks for the time. You're testing. I know this might be for another podcast. Uh but but let's do something on church planting, uh, because I'd really love maybe to maybe interview you. 100%. Let's do it on what church planting is like for you in Tyler, Texas.
SPEAKER_01:I'll let you know how it goes. Yeah, I'm excited about it. But yeah, let's uh let's do another uh appreciate you, love you, man. And and uh guys, uh if you're listening, I I pray that you would just continue to be faithful, finish the fight, get to a place in your life where you're where you're ready to untie from things and be able to hand it over to God and know that you did what Christ uniquely called you to do. And um uh looking forward to hearing or talking to you guys again soon. Have a great week.
