Navigate Podcast
Welcome to Navigate, we are two long term friends doing life and ministry together. I got tired of the same ole answers when I started looking for help when it came to my walk with God. So together we go deeper than most would on topics that most people have heard or were taught but never fully understood. It is our way of simplifying concepts that we may have over complicated throughout our lives. Bringing theology and life experience into each episode. It is our hope and desire to help Navigate your Christian walk with you
Navigate Podcast
Patience
Feeling the whiplash between “we have victory in Christ” and a steady diet of cultural doom? We tackle that tension head-on and chart a different way: peace and patience anchored in truth, expressed through responsibility, and aimed at real change. Rather than treating faith as a bunker, we talk about taking ground—at home, in work, and across communities—with a hopeful vision that expects the gospel to bear fruit over time.
We lay out why the church’s mission is larger than private spirituality, and why Jesus’ words about the “gates of hell” imply an advancing people, not a hiding one. That leads us into a practical, story-filled look at legacy and long obedience: cultivating fields you may never harvest, parenting with hope instead of fear, and rebuilding institutions that form character and tell the truth. Along the way, we explore how apocalyptic language works in Scripture, why treating Revelation like a literal disaster script drains courage, and how a patient, historic faith reframes the news cycle without denying real hardship.
If you’ve felt tired, cynical, or stuck, this conversation offers a reset. Peace isn’t passive; it’s the stability that comes from starting with Scripture, not headlines. Patience isn’t delay; it’s disciplined consistency with the long view in mind. We talk responsibility before authority, the cost and reward of legacy, and the joy of seeing small acts turn into durable good. Subscribe, share with a friend who needs hope, and leave a review with the one step you’re taking this week to trade despair for disciplined action.
What's up guys?
SPEAKER_02:Welcome back to Navigate. Justin, how are you?
SPEAKER_00:Doing uh fantastic, my brother. Texas life treating you right? We're doing good. We're uh yeah, there's a ton of barbecue down here. I'm trying to find like other things than barbecue. You know what I mean? Like it's you don't need not everything has to be smoked, okay? You know, but that sucker. It's good, man. It's uh it's November and it's just nice. Like you just go outside and like throw a football and hang out. It's not like it's not like the Colorado where it's like it's probably freezing randomly and there might be snow on the ground. It's it's pretty cool. Uh like a nice chill in the mornings, a chill in the evenings, and the rest of the time it's like warm and you know, feels like uh uh in Colorado what we call Indian summer. You know what I mean? It's kind of like it's been cold, and then randomly you get you know, like a uh a week or something or a couple of weeks where it feels really nice. Uh it's kind of like that. Oh, and the thunderstorms down here are just next level. Oh, I bet. Yeah, you're just in it, bro. And we have this uh thing on our porch, you know what I mean, where it's like a screened-in porch area, and so you just sit there with your you know, with your mug of tea or coffee or whatever, and you just watch the thunder and listen to the rain, and it's dude, it's cathartic. It's fantastic. Yeah. How are how are things in uh how are things in Colorado? What what weirdness is going on there?
SPEAKER_01:I think uh winter is delayed this season because usually we have snow by now, but that's global global warming, you know?
SPEAKER_02:Climate change is a thing. So uh Al Gore was right. He wasn't, yeah. Just just just for the listeners, I just want you to know he was not. It could be, we don't know yet. Um he invented the internet, so all right.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I wanted to uh chat up maybe two topics, but I feel like they kind of coexist together. That's the ide of uh patience and peace. All right, all right. What what uh what do you got in mind for me? So this stems from I heard a sermon a couple weeks back, man, and he the pastor gets up there, he's like, I just want to tell you, we all have victory in Christ. We're one with Christ, we have victory. And you can look around in the world today and see that uh that doesn't feel like that's the case, right? The world we live in. And then he ends, and I was like, well, I was like, yeah, totally agree. Sweet. Where's this going? We're looking forward to it. And then it ended with, well, let me just reassure you, if you follow Jesus, you do have victory. I'm like, you you just that didn't work. Seems like a contradiction. Yeah, seems like a contradiction. That's as far as we're going. That's weird.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, Tim, um, go ahead. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I mean, when it comes to patience, man, and waiting for Jesus and trying to figure out Christian life, which is why we have this podcast, right? Yeah, we the victories that we're seeing in scripture and that we're told on sermons and stuff. I mean, when when when? You know, like when does it stop feeling like we're not drowning anymore?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I mean, I I think uh I have a very different perspective on this than a lot of other people do. And uh, I've always been frustrated for a long time with this idea of doom and gloom and despair and prepper mentality, and Jesus is coming back any minute now. And look at how bad things are out there, and it's crazy, and then telling people, but you have victory in Christ, and it's totally fine, and you know, God's gonna do a work, and the gates of hell won't prevail against the church. It seems like we're constantly living in some kind of contradiction that is an antidote for whatever mentality we decide to pick that day. If I'm feeling victorious in Christ and God's moving, and we're planting churches and the gospel's going forth, and I'm seeing hundreds of people get baptized, and like these amazing things happen. We're like, man, this is amazing. God's moving and we're not done, or we're gonna, you know, we're gonna punch a hole in the darkness. And then the other side of it is the whole world's going to hell, it's all ending, it's the worst thing it's ever happened, blah de blah. Um, you know, Lord Jesus, come because we're losing down here, you know, and it's like, well, which which is it? You know, what's the what's the actual thing that is happening? And um it's felt for me uh in churches for a long time like we're living inside of that contradiction and no one seems no one seems to pick up on the fact that those are two different messages. Are we winning or are we losing? Like what is our ultimate, you know, what is the where does this thing go? Like where, you know, do we do we do we get off early? Is this car about to smash into a wall, or do we actually make it to the destination? What is God's plan for the church? Because it seems like uh, you know, like we're drunk at the pulpit sometimes with with how we talk out of both sides of our mouth. And look, yeah, I get that some people have a particular perspective that is going to lend them to um see victory in Christ as this ethereal, well, at least I won't go to hell mentality. Um that doesn't seem to affect the world around us. And I I just find that insane. I find that crazy. It seems to me that everywhere Jesus went, he was as interested in what was going on physically with people, healing bodies, teaching people the truth, um launching a movement, if you want to call it that way, you know what I mean? Making disciples like he had a vested interest in futures and families and marriages, and I I would even say the the world, right? Like he he's telling everybody, go make disciples of all nations, go get the globe. Um that seems to me to be pretty clear. Like, like the last, you know, thing, if you want to say it in the gospels that Jesus gives to us is the world. And I I think it's interesting that that seems to be the thing that Christians look at and feel uh validated and vindicated and not pursuing because of how it looks, right? Like uh Jesus says, go forth, make disciples of all nations, baptizing them, teaching them, you know, all this stuff. And when we look at the world today, we have we are looking at the same stuff that Jesus was looking at, you know what I mean, but even worse uh in his day, and I I can get into that a little bit, but and instead of saying Jesus says this is ours, let's go forward, let's preach, nothing's gonna hold the gospel back, we look at it and say, this is the reason why the gospel isn't gonna go forward and why preaching isn't gonna work, and why ultimately, you know, you should find your victory in Christ personally and have peace and be patient as we watch it go to hell. I just, I just don't think that's what scripture was getting at, or what God was saying. So I I'm um post-millennial, which means that I believe that we actually win. Uh I think that the the gospel does go forth. I think that um there's persecution and difficulty and the rise and fall of many different um groups and even countries and regimes and different things that set themselves up against God that will eventually fall. And we're gonna continue to see churches planted, converts made, uh, people coming to repentance. And and look, Tim, like you can look at our world today, and you could say it's an absolute crap fest. Uh tensions are high, a lot of bad stuff is happening. You can also look around and be like, man, churches are being planted every day. Churches are being planted on different continents. The gospel is going forth in South America and it's going forth in Egypt, and it's going forth in Iran in the middle of these difficult things. The church in China is growing, the church in like just different places where we'd be like, oh no, everyone is worse than us. Um, it's just, it's just not the case. I think we're just focused on our current circumstances where we're at. And look, I'm not saying you should not pay attention to grave evils and the proslam of like the Islamic jihad that is slowly taking over in all these different areas. I also, I also think you can look at guys like Wes Huff that are making it on Joe Rogan, and now millions of people are hearing the gospel that the younger generation, the the 25 and unders, Tim, right now are the most religious of all of the generations. They're more interested. Bible sales are at like an all-time high. People are going to church that were never going to church before. Conservative values and morality are back on the table in this younger generation in a way that we haven't seen in a long freaking time. And I think we are addicted to a doom and gloom mentality. And our minds, let's be honest, him, are looking for Christian validation with our inaction and frustration with the world around us. We want to feel like, well, it's not my fault that the world is going to hell. It's not my fault that all those things are happening. And look, in part, that's true, but I also, yeah, I've said it forever, and I'll say it again. You will have no authority in your life where you refuse to take responsibility. And I think people tell themselves, I don't have to take responsibility. Um, it's not mine. It's somebody else's job, it's somebody else's fault. And ultimately, this is going to happen anyways because there's going to be a great falling away, and tons of people have to die, and the world has to explode. So I'm not taking responsibility for it, but I know I have victory in Christ. So I'll try to teach my children to do the right things, even though I know that they may not believe either. And it's it's this, it's this like we have a pessimistic mentality and we constantly find theology to justify our inaction on the things Christ Himself told us that we're supposed to take responsibility for. And that's not healthy, that's not supposed to be you know Christianity. And um post-millennialism ultimately believes that we're in the early church, not in the later church, if that makes sense. That we're still in the process of fighting and seeing the gospel go forward until one day uh the nations would bow to Christ, would love Jesus, that we would actually see victory, and that when he comes back, it's because the world has been radically transformed. And I could give you, you know, a historical analysis of how we see Christianity progressing throughout, you know, time and uh how it's going farther and farther, and God is doing more through his people. Or I could tell you how we're constantly opposed, and here's all the difficulties that we're seeing. But in every day and age and place in history, there was great opposition, great difficulty, and reasons to stay in bed that morning because you don't want to get up.
SPEAKER_01:I see it this way too. The Bible tells us the world is going to get worse. So, despite my efforts here and now, what what does it matter? You know, what difference would that make if yeah, the Bible said that this is gonna happen? I'm not surprised that it sucks.
SPEAKER_00:I well, I think my contention is I don't think that the Bible actually says that. I don't think the Bible is saying it's gonna get worse. I think the Bible is saying you're always gonna have um suffering for Christ. I think that, well, in general, you're gonna have suffering for Christ, you're gonna have difficulty. And when they crucify Jesus, probably everybody thought, well, that's it, it's over. This is the worst thing that ever happened. But what we find in the crucifixion of Jesus is the same story that tends to echo throughout the future. It's it's the same thing we see when we look back at the past, too. Every great fall and difficulty that has happened for the Christian faith tends to end in exponential growth and miraculous resurrection. And so I don't think it's fair to say, well, this happens, that's the end. I I don't think that's actually how God works at all. I think all things work together for good for those who love him and are called according to his purpose. And I don't think that's just a personal statement. I think that's a statement about his church. I think that's a statement about the world. And when Jesus said God so loved the world, uh, I think it's a statement to all of us that should remind us that God isn't leaving the physical world out of that equation and we're just gonna be sucked up into eternity and everything else is gonna be utterly decimated down here. I actually think that's a statement that says, no, literally, Jesus is going to see all things restored. And that's not after he freaking smokes everybody. That's through his bride um doing a work, planting churches, changing hearts, and changing culture through patience, through consistency, and through faith over long periods of time. And if you interpret the Bible as uh revelation is a futuristic, uh what we see in Revelation is a futuristic event that we're all waiting for, waiting for the, you know, the Antichrist to reveal himself, or waiting for this, um, you know, the the the these specific periods of time, the person who's gonna come and make peace in the Middle East and the temple's gonna be rebuilt and all this different stuff. I I think, yeah, you're you're you believe that the way that we should read Revelation is that this is the end of the world. And I think that Revelation, the majority of it, was written to a people in a particular time and a particular place with a particular cataclysmic event that was coming, uh, using decreation language, which is the sky is falling, the the you know, it's it's rolling back like a scroll, um, everybody's dying, pestilence, all this stuff. I I think that's actually using hyperbolic language to describe what happened in 70 AD, which is um maybe just a crazy thing for for people to think about. But what I would um what I would let everybody know is that uh uh the the writing, the genre of revelation is apocalyptic, which is essentially the same as saying it's poetry. It's not something that we read and we're immediately thinking to ourselves, like, oh, this is uh this is a a literal thing that I should interpret. There are going to be grasshoppers with fangs and manes with the stinger of a scorpion flying through the air. And some people are like, no, no, no, dude, that's an Apache helicopter, is what that is. Okay, pal, like what whatever you want to say. Um the dragon's real though. The genre. Well, I I yeah, in in a sense, I think there's a there's a conversation to be had about what are the things should that should be taken super literally, and what are the things that uh that we need to read um in a in a poetic sense or a hyperbolic sense when Jesus says if your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. I haven't seen a lot of churches out there where like, dude, did you masturbate this week? Bring it over here. We're cutting your hand. Everybody's like, right, he didn't mean that literally, he's speaking hyperbolically, but then we get to revelation. Yeah. When we get to revelation, you know what I mean? We suddenly are like, no, no, no, all of it's literal, all of it's specific, and we haven't seen any of these things literally fulfilled. So this must mean that it has not yet happened. And I'm like, well, if you read in Jeremiah chapter four, if you read in Isaiah chapter 14, and if you read in Amos and Joel and spend more time in the Old Testament, you would see that the same language is used, the same kind of um uh bright, colorful, explosive, cataclysmic language that we see in Revelation is found in other places talking about specific nations that were going to be fallen, like Babylon, like Judea, like like uh like uh Nineveh. You know what I mean? Places like that. It's gonna be it's gonna be really bad, it's gonna be horrible, and everything is gonna end. And it's not talking about the globe, it's talking about localized events using hyperbolic language explaining how God is going to wreak havoc and bring judgment on a particular place. And those things do not silence what Jesus said about what he's gonna do with the world, what he's gonna do with the church, and how the gates of church, uh gates of hell will not prevail against the church. And this is important too because the gates of hell, that's a defensive statement. The gates, these are these are these are the things that are holding something back, are defending themselves against uh against the church. Like we're invading, not the other way around. And I think this is interesting too, because I was just reading in um gosh, what is it? Uh I think it's uh Genesis 22, where um uh Abraham takes Isaac up the up the mountain, Tim. You know what I'm talking about? And it's really interesting to sacrifice him. Yeah, yeah. The so the promise that he makes to Isaac and the generations that are coming after him is that they will possess the gates of their enemy. It's a very interesting statement. You know, you don't see that in a lot of other places in the Bible, to possessing the gates of your enemy. And I think when Jesus is bringing up this, you know, this statement in Matthew 16, 18, I think it is, the gates of hell won't prevail against the church. I actually think he's referencing this passage back in Genesis 22, where he's talking about the promised uh offspring, God's chosen people, would possess the gates of their enemy. And I think we are in a very real way the world of darkness, breaking gates open, bringing the gospel forward and and bringing new life and hope and um and you know uh order into chaos and all the things in these places where before the darkness had dominion because of sin, because of brokenness, Christ has broken that wide open, and we're going forth. And and I don't think that means tomorrow it's uh we're all gonna win, and we're basically all there, and it's perfect. No, but I think if you look at history, we're talking about 120 people in an upper room. That was Christianity, that was it. Tell me that is not more of a pull and more of a difficulty and a struggle than anything that we are facing today. I mean, 120 people in a room, you know, in Israel where your your your main guy just got crucified, and this system hates you, Rome hates you, the Jews hate you, the world doesn't know anything about you, and God's like, these guys are gonna win. That is a way worse place to be, right? Like it just just far worse. So anybody, anybody's like doomsday prediction about how bad it is and how there's not many Christians that are real that are left, and everything else, God doesn't need uh a nation, He needs a remnant. He needs a He needs a group of people that are that are that are solid that are gonna say, whatever the cost, I believe the truth of what Jesus said, and I'm gonna I'm gonna go do this thing. Um and so there's a lot of theology that we could talk with regard to a post millennial viewpoint, but what I would say is this, Tim, the duplicity that That I tend to see in pulpits around this topic is super frustrating to me. Are we victorious or do we lose? And I would say the Bible, with a resounding um triumph at the crucifixion, is declaring to the world that Christ is making all things new. And I I brought this up on the podcast before, Tim, but the the crown of thorns that Jesus is wearing when he's crucified is a symbol of the curse in Genesis three, right? Cursed is the ground because of you. Thorns and thistles it will produce all the days of your life, from the dust you are to the dust you will return. Okay, well, there's two parts of that, right? One is the ground itself is going to produce, uh it is cursed and is going to produce thorns and thistles. The other side of it is that you're from the dust and to the dust you're going to return. And what I would say is Christ overcame both of those things. Not only are you, not as you, not only is your final resting place no longer the dirt because he's resurrecting it and giving new life, but actually the ground itself that was producing thorns and thistles, Christ died for that too. And it's all going to be made new. And that doesn't happen when Christ comes back the second time. That's when it's consummated, or or let's say, finally in its entirety fulfilled. But if Christ's resurrection of the dead, and I don't just mean in the eternal state, but I mean through transformation, regeneration of hearts and salvations throughout the world, that's a process of how that happens. I would say the same thing is true about the cursed ground. It's a process of Eden, the new creation being extended to the world around us. And just like you as a Christian, Tim, are in the process of sanctification. When you got saved, it was awesome and it was already done and it was yes and amen. But also there's a lot of work to do, and you're going to have some dark nights of the soul yet to come. You know what I mean? And there's going to be days where everything feels like, man, it's falling apart. That is part of the process that God has of making you into the fullness of what He has called you to be. And I don't think uh the world and the transformation that Christ is calling us to here on earth is different than the transformation that we're seeing in individual people. It's a process that takes time and eventually ends with the death of death itself and the resurrection and the newness and the reconciliation of all things uh to Christ. So um when you talk about peace and patience to bring it back, what I would say for me, the two things that I mean, there's a myriad of applications for this, but Christ is our peace. He's given us himself. And what what does that mean? That Christ has given us himself. He is the prince of peace. We have inherited peace from him, he guards our peace. Why? Because ultimately we have victory in Jesus. Ultimately, whatever happens, whatever difficulty in the process of global sanctification you see, he's bringing about an eternal kingdom and what you're doing matters, and he'll take care of you. He will. Um, and patience, because we're not there yet. We're not there. It's okay to look at the world around you and be like, man, we're not Christian. Yeah, right, right. Uh agreed. We should do something about that. And if God says he's given us authority, but we refuse to take responsibility, uh, authority flows from responsibility. And until you're gonna step out and do something about it, you're not gonna have victory in any of those areas. And as long as we continue to punt on the reality that Christ has called us to do these things and suck the air out of a room when we tell everybody it's all gonna end anyway, so it doesn't really matter. Um, I think we're I think we're going to work against the Great Commission and against obedience to God in the name of some kind of false piety that says, Well, I know more about the end than you do, so I'll just let it go. It's the same, um, it's the same thing, it's the same beef that people have with a type of hyper-Calvinism that says, Well, God knows those who are his, so why do evangelism? You know what I mean? He'll find the ones that are his anyway, so just let it go. It doesn't really matter. Well, no, no, no. God's mode of bringing about the salvation of the many and the redemption of all things is the bride of Christ. And that means you, Christian, are to go out and be obedient to Christ to see that brought about. But if you're justifying sin by saying that God's the one who's gonna do it, I would look at you and I would say, right, he saved you for sanctification, for the process of helping bring these things about. And if you're justifying disobedience because of theology, you're you have a profane theology that uh is okay with the world being damned in the name of uh in the name of your own you know theological disposition that that doesn't lead to obedience. It's a mouthy way to say it. Sorry, it's frustrating.
SPEAKER_01:I think uh it's exhausting. And I was reading what was it, Mark IX transfiguration, right? The amount of transfiguration. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they come down that mountain and the people are are like arguing. They're just not physically, but they're just yelling at each other. They're pissed off about the kid. And there's a dad, yeah. And the dad's like, my son has been throwing himself into fire and into the water since he was a boy, right? Since he was a young boy. And Jesus asks him, He's like, Do you believe? And he's like, Yes, but help my unbelief. Help my unbelief, yeah. Classic. And I'm I was reading that differently for the first time. I don't know why, but I'm reading this, I'm like, God, I believe, but I'm tired. Like, I am tired. Yeah. You know?
SPEAKER_00:Well, can I um speak to that briefly? Physical, you know, physical weariness is a reality that we all face because our ultimate rest is found in Christ, right? At some point, he will do away with this stupid body that is aging and you know, overweight and need needs redemption, right? Um, but Peter tells us, I don't know, I don't know. I saw you looking at me when you said that.
SPEAKER_01:That's cool.
SPEAKER_00:That um, you know, I'll say it to all of us, okay? If the boot fits, take it off. Yeah, yeah, but you made eye contact. That was weird. Yeah, we locked eyes, it was great. Um, Paul tells us that although the outward man is wearing away, the inward man is being renewed day by day. And I think the reminder for all of us as Christians is that exhaustion sets in when hope goes away. The psalmist says it this way uh hope deferred makes the heart sick. We lose energy and lose heart when we begin to believe lies, when we begin to allow things to speak louder than the word of God, when we begin to shift our perspective from how is God working in the world, what is he bringing about, what are the good things that I'm seeing, what's the miraculous stuff going on? Am I seeing miracles? Am I seeing the hand of the Lord? Or am I constantly interpreting life through the lens of pessimism and negativity, and then bringing the Bible in afterwards to justify my mentality? Either you start with the Bible and that transforms how you see the world, or you do uh some Christian judo where you start with the world and then justify your frustration with the Bible. That's not how it's supposed to go. We start with the word of God, that's our bedrock, that's our identity, that's the ontic point of everything that we're fighting for, um, and believe, and then we get to see God working and the Bible confirmed through that process. But it's the same difficulty that I'm bringing up, Tim, with just eschatology in general. If if you believe um that none of these things have happened yet, and that the world is slowly gonna go to hell, uh, then you're going to start with the news and you're going to enjoy all the stories of how bad things are and how how horrible everything is and the hatred that's growing and blah de blah. And then you're gonna spend less time in the Bible, except for the parts where you want to go to it to justify your frustration with what's happening. You know what I mean? Like, are you interpreting the world with uh are you interpreting the Bible with the news? Are you interpreting the news with the Bible? You know, are you interpreting the world uh through a through a through a through a pessimistic, frustrated lens? Are you interpreting the world through an ultimate redemption lens where I get to actually be part of the solution? And um again, I'm not trying to paint rosy-eyed glasses, man. I've I've been at you know, deathbeds before, uh praying with people as they're exiting this world. I've I've held um dead children, Tim. Uh I've been through uh my marriage blowing up, I've had miscarriages, I've seen some atrocious things, and none of those things get to speak louder than Jesus. None of those things get to speak louder than the cross, and all of those things, because of the Bible, remind me that these things eventually are going to go away as Christians do the things that they're called to do by the Spirit, through the Word, uh, or you could say it this way, through the church, by the Spirit, according to the Word, which is turns out is our uh uh mission statement at King's Matter part of it. Um God is going to redeem all things. He's gonna bring those, he's gonna bring things back to the way that they were meant to be. And the last enemy to be destroyed is death. And the Bible tells us that Jesus is is at the right hand of God and he's making his enemies a a footstool for his uh until his enemies are made a footstool for his feet. So it's like this God is waiting until all things are subdued. God's waiting until all things are accomplished. And uh, even if, Tim, even if the United States fails, and I it probably will, I don't think that means it's the end of the world. And I think for some reason we think it does. You know what I mean? Like I think most people think if the United States fails and um this goes down, then then ultimately that has to be the end of the world because there's never been anyone or anything more important than us, right? Wrong. God isn't over here, like man, I hope the United States makes it, or I'm gonna have to usher in the end. You know, that's that's such a weird, such a weird and prideful mentality to have. And I just think that if you look at Israel and you read the Bible and you read about what happened, man, there were some terrible things that happened in the process of God turning hearts back to him. And like I said, when when we see this, you know, the strong men make good times, good times produce, you know, weak men, weak men produce hard, you know, hard times, hard times produce good men. That we're, I think this younger generation that I was talking about, Tim, has has seen the weak men and has seen how repugnant it is and how it creates these bad times. And I think that some of the generations that are coming up are more conservative, more God fearing, more interested in the word and want to see transformation more than the older generation who's been so inundated and anesthetized by media. Um, and instead of going to the church and getting encouraged to get in the fight and get after it and believe the truth of the gospel, they go to church and the the church um uses the Bible to confirm all of their feelings and frustrations and tells them, but it's okay, you should have peace about it. And I I think that's that's what he was saying in you know in Jeremiah when he said, you know, these people keep saying peace, peace, when there is no peace. Like you're trying to help people feel good about disobedience. You're trying to help people feel good about a mentality that is not just unbiblical, but in a lot of ways anti-biblical, and you're using the world to validate, you know, uh those feelings and say that this is the gospel truth. And I it's it's very frustrating to me.
SPEAKER_01:Um yeah, uh I've realized with for myself personally, peace has become quite an idol for me.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Um, mostly because I read this quote. I don't know, it resonated with me. It was like, I'm not an introvert, but I'm an well, I am an introvert, but I'm an extrovert to those who give me peace. Right? So yeah, yeah, I was like, yeah, that's so true. Because I hate it. Like I don't if there's not peace with my kids or with my marriage or work, you know, it's like I don't, I I just get so mad, you know. But the opposite opposite of that is like, do I just need to work all the time on stuff I don't want to do? Probably, right?
SPEAKER_00:I think um tilling the soil, yeah. Let's go, let's go to the farmer here, is an incredibly frustrating thing to do. I think breaking up ground, pulling out rocks, you know, uh getting a field ready to plant and pull up a harvest, you know what I mean? And and and reap a harvest is a difficult thing. And I think a lot of the work that we're putting in and what we're doing is not about me or for me. It's for future generations. The the goal as a post-millennial Christian is to leave the world in a far better place than you found it, as far as it depends upon you, to till a field knowing that your children are going to reap the benefit, to pull out stones, because we have to get work done to bring about what God said would happen, and he wants to use us as the vessels to make that happen. Now, I would say on a practical level, Tim, sometimes you're hanging out with people that are just not about it. They're not running the same direction, they don't have the same desires, they don't have the same mentality. And either you transform what some of those people believe, like an evangelist, like a like a Paul or like a like a like Jesus, right? And you remind people that's not true, and you build a church there that fights against that nonsense, or you find a couple of people who believe what you believe are walking the same direction, are gonna help you stay motivated. Um and I've even seen this, this is the case in in business environments too, Tim. If it's always just about the numbers, then people are just about the numbers. You know what I mean? And then it becomes a mill, and everyone's a gear and everybody's miserable because they know it's not producing anything uh ultimately uh that that matters. It's just filling pockets, and I'm just doing this and working really hard in a miserable environment so that I can have some semblance of peace in the small pocket that I exist in where I lock the doors and you know, close the garage and put down the shades and try to just rest for a second. But that's not that's not at what it's supposed to look like. Our our work is supposed to matter. We should see people in our workplaces, not just the work. We should see purpose in what we're doing, not just the product. The church is supposed to be a reminder to everybody by the word of God, like I said, uh, you know, with the spirit inside doing the work that what we're doing matters, how we're doing it matters, who we're doing it for matters, and that ultimately people are the single most important thing outside of our love for Jesus. And oftentimes I feel like we are more disgusted and frustrated with people than anything else. And look, for good reason, um, you know, the Bible paints a pretty crazy picture that you know, we are working alongside uh dead men, you know, uh we are we're preaching to gravestones. If you ever want a good exercise for yourself, Tim, you go, you go to a you go to um, you know, a graveyard and just walk through it and remind yourself, oh, this is actually a picture of life. Uh, this is how most people are according to scripture. They're they're dead bodies. And I'm I'm in the process of praying for, working towards a resurrection where I would see somebody come back, literally crawl out of that grave, have new skin, new bone, and a new heart placed into them, and become a different person. And I would say this there is peace in the grave. You know what I mean? And I think God is actually trying to interrupt the superficial idea of peace that most people have with this, uh, with the transformation that comes with the gospel and the truth of what he said. And I I think uh sometimes Christians would rather go back to the grave and act like a dead person than actually live and enjoy life because that means doing things that matter. And um, we have it we have an affinity for acting like we're dead sometimes.
SPEAKER_01:You brought this back up to my head, but you've said this before too, when it comes to kids and generations, future generations. I watched an old interview of Steve Irwin. And he his whole life was about uh preservation, right? Earth preservation stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And he he said it, and it just reminded me of you because you said this too was if I die, I would hope my kids continue on in doing what I'm doing, what I'm doing so passionate about, and that's preservation. And his both of his kids are, which is astounding.
SPEAKER_00:And and legacy, right? Legacy, yeah. And and I don't mean legacy for me, I mean Christ's Christ's legacy, what he stood for, you know, working its way as a monument through who we are and what we're doing. But imagine this, Tim. You tell all your kids, hey kids, it's all gonna go to hell, it's all bad. We're gonna go to church on a Sunday to make sure that your heart's in a good place, but ultimately I want you to know that there's not really hope in anything here. Uh it all of it ultimately is uh it's it's it's gonna burn and it's gonna be destroyed. Um, but you know, I brought you into this world because I love you, and God told us to have kids.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:What kind of what what kind of I mean, yeah, it's it's no better than the evolutionary mindset that says, hey kids, you came from monkeys. Uh you're basically primordial slime that has evolved, and now we're destroying the planets and just hoping to get to a robotic singularity so that uh things can be made right. So we're gonna create God in the image of AI. Um, and you know, and that's that will ultimately save us when humans are removed from the earth and something else that is more consistent takes its place.
SPEAKER_01:You know, I know you're joking, but I've heard that sermon before, you know. Yeah the first one, not the monkeys or the robots, but the first part yeah. I I mean it's uh get married because the Bible tells you to, have kids because the Bible tells you to, you know, there's a hell, so make sure that you know about that. Do the right things.
SPEAKER_00:And and if and if you're if you're super intense about this, you're like, and and you tell the parents, just so you know, probably most of your kids aren't gonna make it. Most of them won't be saved. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:So but then it always ends with, and if you're not doing these things, then are you really saved? Yeah, you know, I I hate that, dude.
SPEAKER_00:It's just it's just drives me crazy. Yeah, it's a weird mentality, like I said, that comes from a place of we lose, um, you know, bar the gates, do as good as we can to like make sure, you know, our uh our souls are clean and we're doing a good thing. But outside of Christianity being a rescue mission to try to grab a couple of people before the whole world is you know slips into hell, um, you know, that's that that's about it. And I I think that is uh, like I said, man, I think it's a profane Christianity. We have this, we have this beautiful, inerrant, perfect book that is showing us how history plays out, what God has called us to do, the miraculous things he brings about through nobodies who will just trust him. And he says, Hey, this is the better way. I want you to have children, I want you to take dominion. I want you to transform lives. I'm giving you authority to bring light. I'm giving you authority to bring hope and strength and courage. And from the psychological sphere, Tim, to a community and hospitality sphere, to a scientific sphere in general. Like Christians have everything that we need to grow glorious societies, man. And I would even say this Christianity built the Western world as we know it. You know what I mean? The most like powerful, put together everyone wants to come to this nation because it's awesome and there's freedom and you can make something of yourself and you can build and we worship God and on our money and God we trust. You know what I mean? I mean we had a we had a beautiful society. And I feel like um honestly, part of why things went south on a national scale, Tim, is because we got in bed with a pre-millennial eschatology that believed that actually none of this mattered, that the, you know, the things that we were doing for God, whether it was in government or on the farmland or in, you know, in our in our universities, ultimately didn't matter. And then slowly people with different purposes who care more than you do, who have a different ideology or mentality take over. And then we're watching this tyrannical takedown of something beautiful that was built by post-millennial Puritans who came here and said, We're gonna worship God, we're gonna build civilizations, or we're gonna watch the transformation of the globe as we give our lives to fighting hard for the truth of the gospel in every area of life, not just in the church, not just at home, next to my bed with a Bible, but in every area that God has called me to, I'm gonna bring Jesus with me into those places. And so as we're watching the, you know, the brokenness that exists today, I also want us to realize that all the best things that we're enjoying and what we're sad about losing are all the good things that Christians built before us, you know what I mean, who had this thing in mind that is now being polluted and destroyed in the name of, you know, what whatever nonsense, uh, whatever anti-biblical worldview uh people care about more now. You know, and uh I mean, I've talked about, you know, the Thracians before on here, Tim, who, you know, where they just they lost their identity, they're opened their borders and uh disappeared from, you know, from the face of the earth. I feel like in a lot of ways, Christians have become secular in their mindset. They've opened the borders with regard to doctrine and beliefs. Uh, everyone who's gay is out of the closets, all the Christians are back in the closets, and we're watching society fall apart. And our answer to this has not been obedience, fight back with truth, build strong families, fight for the future. God's gonna, God's gonna do a work. We've told ourselves, oh, it's all gonna end anyway. So ultimately, this is God bringing about what he wants to do. And and when this falls, we'll have done the world a favor by ushering in the final stage so that we can all be saved. And I I think it's um I think it's false and it's wrong, and it's not what God intended for us. And if we want to have peace as Christians, if we want to work in patience, both of those things require hope, and hope requires truth. And the Bible gives us truth and it gives us reason to have great hope in any circumstance and tells us that we serve the God with resurrection power. We serve the God who has trampled the grave, we serve the God who has given us um feet shod with the gospel of peace to trample on serpents, we serve a God who has given us authority uh in ways that we can't even imagine. We serve a God who has uh marched our enemy, you know, naked through the streets and made a public, you know, spectacle of them, Colossians 2, so that we would remember in any circumstance we have authority to go in and do the things that Christ does. And if you think you are in a worse spot than the 120 people that were in an upper room when there was literally no other Christians, period, you are deceiving yourself. You are wrong. We are not in a bad spot because of our circumstances. We're in a bad spot because of our mentality and our lack of uh obedience to the scriptures themselves. And so um peace and patience are a byproduct of hope and truth, and Christ has given you both of those things in himself, and uh we need to we need to walk those things out as if we already have them, not acting as though we don't. Because if we're acting as though we don't, we're saying that um what what the news is saying is correct, not the Bible, right? Yeah, true, very true. You know, I don't I mean whether we like that idea idea or not. So um I think uh as we're talking about this topic, Tim, I realize it's one that's um there's so much more that could be said, especially getting into a post-millennial eschatology and and and why that matters. And look, there's a bunch of pre-male guys out there that are solid, even though I think they're super inconsistent, or at least fighting for the right things. There's a lot of amale guys out there that are solid, even though I think you know, I don't agree with their uh where they land on some things, they're fighting for the right stuff, and I appreciate that, and I think that's good. Um, I think post-millennialism is the most consistent and uh thorough eschatology. Guys like William Carey, Jonathan Edwards, uh, you know, the some of these, some of these guys that, you know, people want to say, um, you know, the so many people, the, you know, Calvinists especially and things were like, oh, they didn't they didn't care about the world, that you know, God was gonna. No, they were some of the most aggressive and um, you know, entrepreneurial. I want to build things that matter. The Puritans wanted to build stuff that matters. Uh, and I think we need to get back to a mentality that is Christ is going to build his kingdom, uh, and the gates of hell are not going to prevail against it. And we can build thriving, solid communities of faith that create, you know, uh nations that love the Lord and do the things that they're called to do. And that happens through the transformation of hearts by people who believe the truth and are walking that out in a daily life. And I'm not saying there's not enemies, I'm not saying there's not opposition, I'm not saying there's not darkness, there's tons of it. Um, but as the uh the parable goes, right, it's not it's not the amount of water, it's the amount of water in the boat that is the problem. And I think if the if the church is listing or if your faith is listing, I would say uh check check the boat. It's probably full of water. Nice. Yeah, nice.
SPEAKER_01:Well, cool, man. It was fun talking to you today.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, thank you for it. Dude, great, great getting back at it with you. Love your brother, keep crushing it. And uh, man, I would just tell you today, Christian, if you are saturated in discouragement and frustration and all the things, um, remind your heart of the truth of what Christ says. Be convicted about what we see in the word, about the the steps that we're supposed to take in obedience to trust him and uh build the kingdom wherever you go and let God sort out the rest, knowing that ultimately he will bring about the redemption of all things, and we can trust him for that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Cool.
SPEAKER_01:All right, man.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I'll catch you all next time. All right, guys, have a great week.
SPEAKER_00:See ya.
