Navigate Podcast
Welcome to Navigate. We got tired of the same ole answers when we started looking for help when it came to our walks with God. So together we go deeper than most would on topics that most people have heard or were taught but never fully understood. It is our way of simplifying concepts that we may have over complicated throughout our lives. Bringing theology and life experience into each episode. It is our hope and desire to help you Navigate your Christian walk.
Navigate Podcast
Kingdom Work, Daily Grind
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What if the most spiritual thing you do this week is build something that lasts? We dive straight into a gutsy thesis: God is glorified not only by private devotion but by public fruitfulness—by redeemed people building enduring work, institutions, and cultures under the lordship of Christ. Anchored in Luke 19’s parable of the minas, we examine stewardship that multiplies, the danger of burying potential, and why faithful risk is a sign of faith in God’s character.
From there we get practical. We unpack calling through two levers—ownership and opportunity—and make the case that motion beats overthinking. We talk about the inner life that fuels outer fruit: prayer that asks bigger, self-talk that aligns with Scripture, and habits that carry us when feelings fade. Competence matters, and so does confidence, defined as keeping promises to yourself. We touch on structured discipline like 75 Hard, the value of paying to learn so you actually pay attention, and a simple ethic of excellence every day and every way.
Then we widen the frame to scaling and legacy. You haven’t truly built until the work can live without you. Teaching what you know creates capacity and multiplies impact. We explore money as a magnifier and reproducer, pushing past guilt toward generous stewardship that creates jobs, lifts communities, and funds mission. The heart check is plain: are people blessed because you are building?
We close with continuity and courage. Valleys shape endurance; mountaintops clarify direction. Lone-wolf Christianity fails, so we lean into community to go far. Don’t kill ambition—aim it. Trailblazers take arrows, but scars become currency in God’s kingdom. If faithfulness turns to fruitfulness, and fruitfulness to expansion, the outcome is inheritance that outlives us.
If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who’s building, and leave a review with one bold, God-sized goal you’re committing to this year. Let’s shine where we work and give our Father glory.
Follow Levi @leadwithlevi
Welcome to Navigate Podcast, everybody. Uh pumped to be back with y'all today. I'm here with my brother Levi, who's got an awesome like uh biblical, you know, Levi. You get it's like Levitical law.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's what's born, you may know, so I'm the priest dedicated to the Lord. You know, um I'm just in full alignment with that. Just grew up in a messianic Jewish church as well, so everything going forward.
SPEAKER_00:I bet. I bet Star David tattooed on your uh on your back somewhere or something like that. Okay, all right, fair enough. Somebody, somebody sent me something the other day, and it was like um, it was like people say, like, I don't want, you know, my body is a temple, I don't want it covered in tattoos. But they're like, if you walk into a temple, the walls are covered in paintings everywhere. Yeah, so it seems uh a little bit of a the gigs up, you know. But those are the same people that weighed 400 pounds as well. There's yeah, like the US temple could use some renovations. It this is an amusement park. This is not a temple.
SPEAKER_02:You got some unhealthy, unpermitted, unsanctioned editions in here.
SPEAKER_00:Something uh something is something is very wrong. Uh you would have been, you know, what's a what's a compliment for somebody like that? You would have been a very wealthy person in an Aboriginal tribe. I don't know. We're gonna come up with some juicy things to say. All right. I I'm pumped today because uh Levi is is um uh uh uh of the same spirit that I am in some way, in that you have an uncommon drive. Um, how do you explain that from the inside out for you? Like what is it what does the day-to-day feel like to you? Because we've talked about it a little bit in the past between you and I, uh a bit of a uh like a a holy um like a not a bad discontentment, but a a good desire to keep going and to build. Like how how does that feel for you in your guts? Because I feel like when I talk to you, you're just a driven individual. Yeah, where does that come from?
SPEAKER_02:I get I get like very intense a lot. That's a common feedback that I get from you as well. Yeah. Um, where does it come from? Is a is a great question. I think a lot of it is uh my atmosphere that I grew up in with my family. My dad was an extremely hard worker, and that's one of the key characteristics that he passed down to me.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and my mom was uh a zealot of source, I guess. Okay, for for her faith in Jesus and all these good things. And uh somehow I became a divine combination of both of them. Uh okay, there you go. I I think I I would liken it to like an old diesel engine. Yeah. Like once it's up and running and you finally sprayed enough ether to get it moving.
SPEAKER_00:It's never running, it doesn't want to turn off. Yeah, you're getting 10,000 miles out of that baby.
SPEAKER_02:We're better off just running at a low idol occasionally and uh the rest of the time just keep it working.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So you've uh you let's say you you started like a coffee shop down here, you do uh sales stuff. You do I feel like every time I talk to you, there's some kind of new business adventure that you're on. You guys are also selling like um uh like holistic stuff for people, trying to get people healthy. Yeah, you're at the gym all the time, smashing it and get after it. I'm gonna get you into jujitsu at some point between our you are.
SPEAKER_02:I'm I'm not putting it off. I'm just prioritizing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's right. That's right. He's a smart man. You but you've done a bunch of different stuff. So I really wanted to talk today kind of around this topic of um how do we how do we build lives, institutions, cultures for the glory of God? I want to talk about like theology for work and work for the kingdom. How do those things kind of work together? And we've talked in the past on some other episodes just about the value of work in general. Yeah. I wanted to take it a step deeper and just kind of put this thesis out there. God is glorified not only in private piety, but in public fruitfulness. When redeemed men build enduring work, institutions, and cultures under the lordship of Christ. Do you agree with that? You feel like that's a solid thing we should be shooting for?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I uh I don't know exactly where, I believe it was the Sermon on the Mount, but Jesus says to let your lights shine among men. Something like that. Help me, Pastor.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, let your light shine among men so that they may see, right? Like your good works and be blessed. And be blessed. Yes, and your father is glorified in heaven by this, right? Exactly. So so here's a text I want to take us to because I think it's one of the most savage passages in the Bible. It's also the most pro-capitalism, I think, uh, text in the Bible. So it'll be kind of a fun one for us to read. Um no, I mean, I'm to the right of Genghis Khan, so it should be fine. Um, I'm a I'm a for those of you that don't know, I'm a general equity theonymist. I'm sure I pissed off a bunch of natural law people out there right now. Um, I'm sorry, I'll pray for you. And for the rest of you, don't worry about any of that unless you want to be a nerd. All right, here we go. Luke 19, 11 through 27. It says, While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable because he was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately. So he said, A noble went to a distant country to receive a kingdom for himself and then return. And he called ten of his slaves and gave them ten menus, and said to them, Do business with this until I come back. But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, We do not want this man to reign over us. And when he returned after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that the slaves to whom he had given the money be called to him, so that he might know what business they had done. The first appeared, saying, Master, your Mina has made ten minas more, and he said to him, Well done, good slave, because you have been faithful in the very little things. You are to be you are to have authority over ten cities. The second came saying, Your Mina, Master, has made five Minas, and he said to him also, and you are to be over five cities. Another came saying, Master, here is your Mina, which I kept put away in a handkerchief, for I was afraid of you, because you are an exacting man, and you take up what you did not lay down, and reap what you did not sow. And he said to him, By your own words I will judge you, you worthless slave. Did you know that I am an exacting man, taking up what I did not lay down, or reaping what I did not sow? Then why did you not put my money in the bank? And having come, I would have collected it with interest. Then he said to the bystander, Take the Mina away from him and give it to the one who has the ten Minas. And they said to him, Master, he has ten meanas already. I tell you that every one who has more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. Just a just a savage, just savage Jesus coming in. But I I think this is an incredibly important passage because Jesus decides what each of them got, right? One of them gets 10, one of them gets five, one of them gets one. And I think the average um uh DEI hire hates this mentality already. They're like, no, we should all have exactly the same. How dare you? No, God gives to men or women what they have, and we're responsible for those things. But you got the guy who doubles it and gets put in charge of more. You got the other guy who doubles it as well, and he's not less than the other guy. He had less and he did exactly the same amount with the other one, but you have this this dummy who just puts away what he has and doesn't use it, and God literally has this person executed. Like, and and I think there's a there's something worth noticing here. What you do with what you have is a statement about what you believe about God, his goodness, his expectation, and it's a statement about your your faith. I mean, how many people and just talk me through this for a second? How many people do you think are terrified of their own potential?
SPEAKER_02:Man, if they knew like I I think that's part of the biggest gift from God is like self-discovery, right? Yeah, when you find your own unique uniqueness, if you will, yeah, how everybody has a heartbeat that if they don't, they're they're dead, right? They're dead. But uh heartbeat, lungs, brain, everything functions, right? We all got similar components that we're all built with. Some work better than others, some don't. But everybody's thumbprint is unique. Yeah. And to think that we were created by a creator with a specific purpose and an intention in mind, and to miss the potential or to be afraid of what he's created us to do. Yeah, I believe it's Ephesians that talks about um for we were created with God's handiwork created in Christ Jesus for good works that he prepared beforehand for us to walk in. Yeah. And with that mindset and understanding and reading scripture, like not focusing on or pressing into your potential, it's like a slap in the face. Yeah. Imagine if you created something and it's like, you're not doing what I created you to do. My son is an amazing Lego artist. Yeah, like probably a Lego engineer, similar to your son.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yep. They got that same thing.
SPEAKER_02:They nerd out with it together, and it's like, I'm gonna spend hours doing this, building this. And he often goes and designs these new ships, these new voyage things, whatever it is, mini figs. I I I'm not too far on the weeds.
SPEAKER_00:But I'm not down with the lingo on the big figs. Yeah, I'm just gonna be able to do that. The big figs, mini figs. Big figs to me means something else. Figs, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Fair. And with with that, uh, he he has a specific purpose that he sets out and that he creates it for. And when when it gets to that place where they're not functioning, he's like, tear it down. Yeah, I'm gonna start over. Yeah, let's go again. I believe it's the same thing with God creating us for our potential and us taking that and not using it or at least pursuing it. Yeah. Um, one of the biggest shifts for me, at least for faith, and like when I say faith, I'm gonna qualify and quantify it a little bit. Faith in action. Yeah, not just like I put my faith in Jesus.
SPEAKER_00:That's actually what faith means. Faith, faith is a verb.
SPEAKER_02:Faith is like a muscle, yeah, right. As they say, and uh, if you know anything about the gym and working out, right? You can't I know nothing. You know, you know a lot, bro. You know a lot. Take it easy, take heart. Um you you have to build it, you have to work it, you have to discipline it. And if you don't use it, you lose it, baby. Yep, it's gone. And when it comes to faith, um, that faith in action that I'm talking about, what really shifted for me was when I was at a business conference in Las Vegas.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Um a good uh mentor of mine put together an amazing conference, which was business, but kind of like ministry. It was like a very unique conference. Okay. Um, and one of my how do I want to say this? Not idols, but a person that I look up to who is very successful in business. Yeah. Was sharing from stage. Um his name is Ed Milet. Kind of a mentor. Mentor, yeah. Yeah. Um his name was Ed Milet, and he's like, I believe in Jesus. So hell for me is not being separated from Jesus for eternity. Hell for me is seeing the man that God created me to be and him bringing him out to see me and me looking nothing like him. Yeah. That God created me with all this potential. Like I just I totally failed. I totally failed. I missed the mark. I missed what he was calling me to do. And that's what hell would be like. Yeah. And that really hit me. I I was a regular church attender, I was a person who um was checking the boxes, but I'm like, what am I created for? I believe I'm created for more. There's gotta be more to life than this. And then I started to do crazy things, yeah. Um, with business, with uh just pursuit, just whatever it may be. Um and and that really came from a place of like if I'm created for good works, yeah, when am I gonna see those? I've got to go out and actually take action and do something.
SPEAKER_00:Life is meant to be spent, right? Like it's a gift that we're given. I I'm interested in this though, because I was thinking about like the workplace in general, and you were talking about people check boxes in their Christianity. It's like I go to church, yep, and then I live my life over here, and I'm a good person, which I hate it when people say that. But there is a reality that, like, um, if we're thinking about what Christ has called us to, everything should be kingdom, everything should be kind of a dominion mindset. Okay, if I am new in Christ, how does this apply? And one thing that I don't think people realize is that a workplace catechizes, like um, for for those of you that are familiar with this word, catechism is I had to look this one up. Catechism is catechism is teaching. It's it's it's teaching um like like the word doctrine just means teachings. Yeah, all right. So catechism is what we would take our children through. Sure. If I'm like, I want you to learn about the Trinity or I want you to learn about this, listen, Disney is catechizing your children. All right. Uh the world is catechizing your children. What I don't think we realize is that the workplace is also catechizing workers. Yeah. And so when you talk about your mentor like walking in and then telling people about Jesus and what drives him and what he feels like he's called to be, I think that's massive. Like, how do you how do you bring Jesus into your own workplace and in what you're doing? Like, how do you think about catechism when you're talking with people and speaking with people and trying to help drive, because I think some people think like business, you know, bad, Jesus good, and somehow they're different things. But this parable is like, well, no, actually, technically, faithlessness produces nothing, and faith actually produces immensely through the person who actually wants to work and do something about it. So, so when you I just want to ask you like, how do you bring a type of um kingdom mindset into your work that helps drive some of this mentality that then ends up catechizing the people around you that gets contagious? Matthew 5 42. Talk to me about it. Be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect. So you for you it's a it's a moral standard you feel like you're bringing it with.
SPEAKER_02:It's like excellence. So one of the core values that I have professionally and personally, and that I implement with our family. We've got a list and it's an acronym. Oh beautiful. Of course it is. It's leading, but RE stands for excellence every day and every way. Setting a standard that it's like you are continuing to you are continuing to focus on continue improvement. Yeah. One percent better. Dedicated to content. You're dedicated. It's like um the stonemasons or the people who used to build the cathedrals, yeah, were amazing.
SPEAKER_00:We don't even have technology today, man.
SPEAKER_02:It's it's going to be embarrassing. Yeah, yeah. It's it's it's it's crazy. But they were masterful architects, yeah. And they would take time honing in their craft and like building such beautiful masterpieces, yeah. That uh I believe that we can implement that same understanding with uh our work on a day-to-day basis. The first person in the Old Testament that was anointed um with God's Spirit was the person who uh created the tabernacle. Bezalel. Bezalel. Fancy name for your child. It's a dope name.
SPEAKER_00:Number number six, probably not for your kid.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, probably not for mine.
SPEAKER_00:No, man, five and done. That's what I always say. The Cinco is the four four and out.
SPEAKER_02:Um I'm good too. We're we're strong, open to adoption.
SPEAKER_00:But uh bio kids were there. There you go.
SPEAKER_02:But but with with uh with that individual, they were craftsmen, right? Yep, they had work that needed to be performed, and it was for the glory of God. Yep. In the same way, it's like we can just take it so simply if we're going to apply it to work.
SPEAKER_00:Hey, let's give this, give God the glory that he's due in the work that you know what I love about that too, man, is that was all already his craft. And it was like God took him and he just set him on fire. Like the guy who is already working in that area, he's already doing this stuff. One day, God just gives him a download. You know what I mean? And suddenly he's like, Okay, I just something next level just happened to me. Have you ever had that kind of inspiration in what you're doing? Where you're like, you're doing something, you're staying faithful, you feel like it's been dry for a little bit, and then suddenly you have like this explosion of like, oh my gosh, okay, something really cool is just happening. I just had an amazing idea or whatever, and you're you just start running with it. Yeah. I I think sometimes as Christians, we're like, no, that's not God. That's just that's happenstance or that's synapses firing off in my brain.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. No, I think it's so uh it's interesting that you say that. Yeah, because we're quick to rationalize stuff. Yeah. But when you're living by faith or you're taking like, right, this next year I've got in a massive Bhag, big, hairy, audacious goal. And it's like, I I've learned to dream bigger, to look bigger. Why? Because if I can do something that's small, then I'm gonna discredit God. Do we I'm not gonna put God on that level? I gotta dream God-sized dreams and pursue God-sized level stuff.
SPEAKER_00:I think we need to consider more that we might be offending God with the prayers that we pray. Ooh. Like, how how can we ask small things of a God who can do all things, right? But like I I think sometimes we're we're asking for scraps, and I think God is like, you're praying like you don't know who I am.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you know, and this is the same God that parted the Red Sea, yeah, right? Uh did those plagues in Egypt. Yep.
SPEAKER_00:And also from the dead, raising people from the dead, stopping the sun, four feet of quail in the desert, you know, yeah, all kinds of things.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, manna from heaven, provision, fire by night, cloud by day. Uh, God, I just want you to bless this meal, yeah, please.
SPEAKER_00:And if that's the extent of your prayer life, that's a problem. Oh my gosh. How how does prayer work into this for you? Like, here's where I wanted to go with it. Because I think before people fall in public, their prayer life fails in private. Um, and and I want to talk about this because it, okay, so like we're talking about dreaming big, praying big. Um, take steps of faith, take what God has given you, do something with it, work hard at it, and and see that inspiration at some level. Is is God blessing you and doing something in your life? Because as Christians, we don't believe in isolated incidences or or coincidence. If you get hit with inspiration in a moment, that's a beautiful thing, and you should thank God for that, right? Yes. But like, how do you not get to the uh climbing the ladder ego, uh, self-salvation, self-liberation kind of mentality with work, or where some people land, the guy who buries the talent or puts it in the handkerchief, which is work is a curse that I'm supposed to endure because of the fall. And if you were that guy right now, I would just tell you in Christ, Christ has redeemed that. Yeah. Uh now work is work is far more, and it's an opportunity.
SPEAKER_02:I I'm gonna call you out. If you are that guy, step up. Yep. God gave Adam work before he gave him a wife. Yes. Keep your priorities straight.
SPEAKER_00:It was a creation ordinance.
SPEAKER_02:Correct.
SPEAKER_00:Right? It wasn't part of the fall. Sorry. Yeah. Thorns, well, those are something else. But that's uh that's why Jesus has a crown of thorns on his head when uh when he's crucified, right? He didn't just come to take your sin. It was every curse is is ultimately um you know taken away in Christ as as sin is now working backwards from the new tree of life to cross of Jesus Christ. We're working. forward with him to see the redemption of all things. But like, okay, so so how do you not um how do you not get caught up in the game or the the catechism of the workplace as opposed to the teaching from the uh you know kingdom thoughts as you're as you're working in that environment. Because it can be pretty it can be pretty sketch. People can be pretty shady. Oh people eat each other alive. Yeah. Snakes are not a good thing.
SPEAKER_02:I mean I I I grew up on the eastern plains of Colorado and we had our fair share of snakes. Yeah. It's always good to just cut their heads off and deal with once and for all there you go. I I would say how I deal with those things is I try and live congruently. And what that means for me is like I measure and calculate my words. Yeah. When I'm speaking to myself it's like you can call it um affirmation, inner dialogue, prayer or whatever. I consider all those kind of one in the same. Yeah. I'll speak highly right because if I'm not gonna speak well to myself then who is?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But if I'm out in public I'm gonna be like, no let me let me show it. Let me do it. There's a I think it's a famous president who said um talk soft but carry a big stick.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And in some ways it's it's very similar to that. Like that's kind of what your prayer life should be. Right? That's the big stick. You've got good preparation, you're laying the ground, but you have clarity. I think that's the biggest thing that we struggle with not only today in work um but in life is like what is it that you want?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:What are you shooting for? You can pray till you're blue in the face. What are the desires of your heart? If you don't even know what the desires of your heart are then how are you going to know when you receive it? It's like playing praying ambiguous prayers going to the airport and trying to make your way to LA but just hopping whatever flight's available.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah like you you don't even know where you're that's fun for a vacation you know to goof off with your spouse but that's not a that's not a plan.
SPEAKER_02:If you have somewhere to go and you you want to arrive at that destination you need to be clear on that. And it's the same thing with prayer like uh obviously there's uh contingencies or things that rope into that you want to be praying in accordance with his will yeah like not God give me a Ferrari what are you going to do with a Ferrari what's what's it for bro what's for yeah uh you're better off with the Camry that you have right now take care of that build it up from that I think as Christians we should be more interested in in loving our neighbors through like providing jobs.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah you know what I mean like if you're if you're creating something and building something uh one of the best ways to love a neighbor is to help build up the socioeconomic area you know that that God has given to you I had a I had a missionary friend in um in uh Laos and he was teaching them how to how to farm tilapia how to grow mushrooms how to do I mean literally like for him the way that he was able to share the gospel out there was by helping boost their so cute socioeconomic system and like by doing that they gave him a free pass to teach the Bible and do a bunch of other stuff and I'm like well he's just bringing the full gospel yeah is all that is like it's not just the drive by guilting. He came in and he taught the word and then was teaching them not just how to make a living but how to make a life with the living that they were making and I just think that's um so when you bring up like you got a Ferrari great it's like yeah what's the actual what's the actual goal and it's a separation like what is your God?
SPEAKER_02:Everything's fighting to be your God. Yeah and I I I thought about this kind of in prayer and in preparation for this podcast. Yeah and one thing that's really been pressed on me is like it's easy to give God your heart but what about your habits? Come on and your habits are going to be more of a deciding factor of who you're going to become yeah like we live in a very emotionalistic society. No kidding we we we could dive in deep down the rabbit hole with that we can get real emotional real emotional and uh I mean we see it in our everyday walks with politicians media music all emotions make a wonderful slave but a horrible master. Yeah a horrible God and in the same way uh we can only choose God or mammon yeah and where our priorities are money is nothing more I was having uh a talk with uh a mutual friend of ours from from the church yeah and I just told him I was like money's a magnifier yeah if you are a giant douche yep when you're poor if you get a ton of money you're gonna be a giant it's only gonna be it's only gonna be worse. Sorry to tell you that like money's not gonna change you have to take you with you wherever you go. Yeah and if you are a kingdom driven person who wants to give and to help other people provide jobs provide work well why would God not want to bless that if that's in alignment with him.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah I found with money too it's it's also it's not just um it's not just an amplifier it's a reproducer. So whatever you are the more funds you have behind you the more of yourself that you're reproducing because you are producing those jobs and opportunities and kind of a marketplace of idea that you're you know you might be um helping drive at some level but it's it's also reproducing who you are and so I I think there is a there is a principle that it's like God is gracious sometimes to not give people the things that they want. Oh my gosh. Right? Because they're not they're not there.
SPEAKER_02:Can your you know can your character actually sustain God for not answering King John un prayers. The deep deep prayers and all of these prayers of death to America it's fair.
SPEAKER_00:I mean that's an extreme example but I think it paints the portrait yeah it it does there's a there's there's a uh a judgment that God can give to some people I think where he gives wicked people their own way right but there's also the restraining hand of God which I thank the Lord for every day in my own life right the great 90s theologian Garth Brooks thank God for unanswered prayer thank God for unanswered prayers. Man I haven't I haven't jammed Garth Brooks in a long time.
SPEAKER_02:Is he still alive yeah find out I I I would say so I mean I almost saw him in Vegas.
SPEAKER_00:Did you really yeah I was like I was really into him I I mean I feel like singing Friends in low places one time live would probably be great I'm I'll I'll pray about that. I'll see if the Lord the dance yeah oh for you yeah karaoke I mean let's do it no dude karaoke's a hard pass I don't like singing I do it I do it out of remote obedience yeah he's still alive how old is he 63 63 oh he's got some he's got some years in him yet he's got the red script as long as those friends in low places don't you know kill him or something it's fine. All right uh here's the deal you you were talking a little bit about work ethic building stuff we were talking about what drives us how to um you're talking a little bit about like affirming you know that inner dialogue prayer um confirming like good things um uh like mentally how you talk to yourself I think all that stuff's important but I think what some of what you were getting at is what what is your end game what are you actually trying to accomplish yeah and that's bound up I think in like calling so I want to talk about this word that is uh a frustration for many um a uh just an you know the the principium of everything for some people when you think about calling how do you talk to somebody who maybe doesn't totally know what theirs is yet or how they're developing it what what does that look like for you uh talk to me about calling for the average person who maybe is just trying to unpack that idea yeah although I I hate that I just said unpack on a podcast because it's so trendy I'm so I'm so sorry I'd just like to apologize to everyone real quick. Okay go ahead just quote Nacho Libre thank you yeah thank you for that yeah um absolutely so I I think one of the mentors that I had um you gotta seek out people who are wiser than you who are further along than you who are older than you if uh I I had a friend who said when you hear somebody who you are like very interested in what they have to say pay attention because God put something in them that he also put in you that's right right like there's a there's an attraction for the right reason.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah yeah and I think that uh I I'm gonna probably uh it's my opinion so whatever I listened to a previous podcast of uh youth groups and young adults and all that stuff we're a little bit more in alignment with that but I think that there's just the blind leading the blind is one of the biggest issues because as Jesus says they both fall into a ditch. Yeah you need somebody with vision and vision comes from being able to know what you're capable of and what you can achieve in a certain amount of time. And there is great power in people with great gray hair and people who have lots of arrows in their back and lots of battle scars because they've been through some stuff. Yeah. And they're I I think as a society the people who are most lost are the people who are just in echo chambers people who are saying the same things and losing the same things. Okay there's my rant. Now for the practical and tactical I think the way that God designed us is very similar to his original form and creation. We're dirt right yeah and uh if God breathed his breath of life into us then we're to produce seeds after our own kind it's time to stop looking out and having everybody else affirm what it is that we're supposed to be doing and really see like what is our proclivity? What is our natural bend as another one of my mentors says yeah uh what is the thing that we're called to or what's comes easy to us what's the thing that we find the most passionate yeah now I'm not gonna go on the tangent and say follow your passion. If you need to work at McDonald's work at McDonald's yeah you don't have to be passionate about the fries that you're throwing in there but you need to develop work ethic so you can be useful. There's a YWAM adage sorry I'll let you go ahead there's a YWAM adage um that really sticks with me all the beautiful things that YWM has done in my life brought me my wife so thank you so much YWAM if nothing else if nothing else the greatest gift that God has ever given me they say it's much easier to steer a moving car than it is a parked one. Yeah so if you're not in motion and you're not doing anything you're doing the wrong thing. Yep take action I have I have a saying myself uh that is TMI to TMA too much information to take massive action that's good and if you go and just eat eat eat all the time you know what's gonna happen? You're gonna get obese paralysis by analysis analysis paralysis you inner information without implementation is just entertainment.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah that's good man that's a good word I um I like to tell people two words if you're trying to find your calling um they're ownership and opportunity you need to own where you're at yeah uh I think Acts 17 makes it pretty clear that God placed you where you are in history your geographical location and the people that you're around and I think a lot of people are waiting for like their big move to your point but God's just waiting to see if they're gonna multiply what he's already given them.
SPEAKER_02:Right I think that's it too it just came to me as you were sharing. Yeah um calling who is calling yeah yeah and are you listening yeah do something like that are you gonna answer?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah are you going to do it's not spam likely let's you know this is probably one that you should pick up hello destiny expecting your call I I think I think if you'll own where you're at that honors God. Yeah and I think you look for opportunity and what I've found with people man you I don't know you maybe you're like this too but like I find that the people show who they are in the way that they do things and you're gonna find somebody's niche really quickly. Like if if you put somebody uh in a coffee shop you're gonna find the people person right away you're gonna find the organizer right away you're gonna find the manager right away you're gonna find like the the the the guy who fixes everything right away because they're all gonna do the same job but they're all gonna have different bents right um as they see opportunity. So if you own something opportunity presents itself and when you have ownership and opportunity I think you end up in that oh I I think I may have stumbled on a way that God has made me. I think maybe I but it comes from movement.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. If you're sitting still wondering what your calling is yes get up and move.
SPEAKER_00:There's walk. Do something something do something with what God has given you. There's this quote though I I love from Martin Luther uh I'm gonna read it real quick. He says a maid who sweeps her kitchen is doing the will of God just as much as the monk who prays not because she may sing a Christian hymn as she sweeps but because God loves clean floors I love that it's like somebody who's doing somebody somebody who's a pastor is not being more faithful than the person who is called to the you know to the to the city square right like God God wants excellence that ownership and faithfulness wherever you are and if you're like sitting in a place and you're looking for calling but you're not owning where you are you're already missing the steps to understanding how God made you and what he's calling you to do and you're actually practicing faithlessness and saying God you're asking me to reap where you didn't sow. No he has sown there. Yeah that he he already has done something yeah you're doing you're doing nothing with it but exactly if you're not faithful in the little things then how can he trust you? Yeah yeah okay but there's a second thing right because sometimes you find a calling let's say you got that uh you've been faithful you've owned some stuff you're working through it competence is also important correct oh yeah like ignorance is not your friend so I I I uh I have a couple of these right yeah uh competence for sure but what does competence come from?
SPEAKER_02:I'm listening experience right yeah and qualifying experience and that's what confidence in some senses is as well they sound similar. Yeah uh confidence what I believe a good definition a working definition of confidence is is your ability to trust yourself with what you say you're going to do. That's good. Yeah and um right now there's a big move inside of uh King's Banner that my wife may or may not have initiated or been involved with in some shape or form. But with the 75 Hard program. Oh yeah that is one of the grittiest um best self-development programs that is out there why because you do the same five things for 75 days straight yeah and you hold yourself accountable you miss a picture you roll back to day one you miss drinking a gallon of water you roll back to day one you don't read your 10 pages you roll back to day one I've completed this after many attempts of failures um and for me it just helped to develop that internal momentum that inertia yeah and and once it's like an inertia by definition is an object in motion will stay in motion until other forces are acted upon it. Right. If you don't feel like you're heading in any general direction you don't have any momentum or push or force or anything yeah you got to generate some inertia. Yeah. And if you want to try the 75 heart program and be ruthless with yourself.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah habits will take over when you're when your heart is not in it. And that's that's what you want because you'll have moments where you're motivated and excited and you'll have moments when you aren't but ultimately your desire should still be I want to achieve this even if even if my heart is not in a great place. So I love that habits will set you up for for your worst moments with your heart. And I think uh a lot of people underplay that they're like I just want to feel great about it all the time. Feeling stop it S T A H P stop all right it's a it's a it's a problem uh and and you already said it feelings make terrible gods but I think so just on this topic because you calling and then you brought it up experience is huge I also think there's a mountain of information like education uh yeah grows this immensely you're going to pay one way or the other yes and if you don't pay you don't pay attention that's just how it works.
SPEAKER_02:That's good. That's good. Uh and if you don't pay enough you're not gonna pay attention enough to whatever it is it's the same thing like there's not a difference between a Ross bag and a Michael Coors bag except for the price that you pay. Yeah and people treat them differently they don't want to be seen with the the Ross simple bag they want the Michael Coors.
SPEAKER_00:They want the good is it even Michael Kors anymore what's the new what's the new Fred it's it's uh yeah hold on I I know this from one of the rap songs it's a Birkin bag oh there you go whatever there you go yeah whatever Bibles over Birkin bags okay good that yeah amen uh I I like the song whoever sang that I think I think it's really important so just for people who are thinking about this okay how do I be faithful? How do I be kingdom minded? Well first it really helps understanding your calling is to be faithful where you are like look for that opportunity. Yeah and a key look for that ownership be a part of it I love what you're saying about like dude you should be prayed up your your inner dialogue had better not be beating the crap out of yourself all day long.
SPEAKER_02:And if Jesus got beat the crap out of him so you don't have to exactly right if it is you need a new prescription yeah you need that Romans 12 prescription come on man get that get that renewed mind we love like oh I'm holy I'm sanctified but you you go and check the most valuable real estate on earth yeah the five and a half inches from ear to ear and that is not looking sanctified. Yeah that is still cursing you on a day in and day out basis the programs that are running the conversations that you're having with yourself like the enemy doesn't have to do any work because the program that's set in place is already taking care of business.
SPEAKER_00:If your inner dialogue sounds like the book of ecclesiastes um just just check your check your check your premise okay check check your heart and where it's at because something is probably wrong. All right so I want to calling we talked about competence the third one I want to talk about a little bit is okay so let's say somebody's got that calling in their life they've kind of identified it they're running towards it they're gaining competence in it. I want to talk about scalability a little bit let's talk about uh another C word construction construction but like how do we uh how do you um how do you begin to reproduce something when you're when you're beginning to learn a skill or this calling like when I talk to you man conversations like you want you want to hire people you want to teach people yeah um tell me tell me what the why why is that important to you why do you think that's like a a a kingdom value um why is it a kingdom value because he will reign forever and ever and ever and um I believe that upon his return he's gonna check you know our faithfulness what have we done with with what's in our hands yeah I had a uh a very good spiritual mentor growing up and he taught me the Nelson Mandela principle of each one teach one.
SPEAKER_02:If you're not emptying yourself of what you've been learning and teaching and growing somebody else like you don't need to be thousands of years ahead or miles and miles ahead. What you need to do is take the information that you have and share it. And because it's going to empty you and allow you to have more capacity to take on more and you're also going to retain it and process it better. I I feel like people share what they love.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah it's easy I like everybody whether it's Facebook or Instagram or X or whatever like if you Something to say you want to share something, you just you just do it. And and I sometimes I feel like with people's jobs, their you know, their vocation, their calling, all this stuff, it's the one area they're like, I just keep this to myself and I stay in my lane. And I'm always asking, do you actually like it then? Or is this like a is this an escape for you, or is this something you actually like want to build? Uh to me, to me, you you have not actually created something valuable until you could hand it to somebody else and it would keep working. Like your the level of success you have in something is your ability to step away from it and see it continue on beyond you. And I think uh the difference between like a Tower of Babel, you know what I mean, and an actual movement of God is um that does it have to have you involved in it, you know what I mean, to to to have life. A hundred percent. And I just think um when you when we think about calling, okay, and then I'm growing in competence and I get this. Can you scale it? Yeah, can you do now? Can you do it more? Can you share this in a way that's gonna grow beyond you where you're no longer the lid on the thing that you started? You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you you're you're touching all my buttons here with scaling and systems and all that good stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Let's go.
SPEAKER_02:Let's go. I I think I want to to qualify or maybe take a little segue off of that because scaling could be not necessarily just growing a business for other people to work in. Maybe you have a specific type of business that is a product or service that's just completely self-sustainable. Yeah. But the income is growing and scaling. Yeah. And you use that resource or the talent that you receive for the time, your treasure, whatever it may be. It shouldn't just be qualified into like the size of your business or anything like that. I'm not saying that that's what you were communicating, but when I'm hearing you share about that, that's kind of where my mind goes with it. Um and and I think that like that's part of stewardship, right? Is just being able to be useful. Yeah. Maybe you're not a person with millions in the bank, right? Or tons and tons of properties that are cash flowing every month. Um, but you have talents. Or if you don't have any talents, you have talents. You you you have time and you have availability to serve and just be present.
SPEAKER_00:You know, and then take ownership and that opportunity, right? Correct.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And um another thing that I wanted to share with ownership is I I I I've done real estate investing. Yeah. Bought flipped houses, all that good stuff. And there's a really big principle that can be taken from that is ownership creates equity in relationships, in business, uh, and in life. When you start to own something, you start to treat it differently. That's a you're not you're not a renter, you're not somebody who is just like, um it's not mine. I don't know. I'm just dating it, I'm just dating her, whatever it may be, or I'm just playing around with this business. This is just a job for me. Right. But if you have a mindset of ownership, it creates equity. You treat it differently, you can build into it. Um, I heard on one of the other podcasts uh where you talked about relational equity.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Uh, and it's the same thing. Like, are you making deposits? Yeah. Are you taking ownership in your marriage as a man, as a husband? Are you putting in time to invest and listen and pay attention? You're gonna get out of something what you put into it. 100%. Yeah, and the beauty of it too, whether it's your body, your business, or um your time in the Bible, you can have forced appreciation, just like real estate. Yeah, do some work, build it up, baby. If it if you don't like the way that your house looks right now, fix it. Yeah, knock down those walls, yeah, refinish that battle.
SPEAKER_00:Quit being so freaking lazy. Yeah, yeah. Get some work done. I love that, man. Which which takes me to kind of that last thing. So we talked about calling, all right. We talked a little bit about competence, construction, building, and scaling, and then continuity. People quit, man. Yeah, like people just quit. People quit on the stuff that they're working on. And and when we're talking about kingdom work, it's it's an eternal work. It's not for you. So it has to go beyond you, it must be bigger than you. Yep. We're not just looking for Ferraris, we're looking to love our neighbors, which means I'm I'm building something that goes way beyond us that's going to bless people. Now you want that Ferrari, praise the Lord. I have no problem with something.
SPEAKER_02:I have no problem with somebody having a Ferrari, a Lamborghini. As long as they let me drive it. They're Bugatti. Absolutely. Thank you, Pastor. Uh Bugatti, Veyron, whatever, whatever it may be. But they can drive whatever. However, show me what they've been giving.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Show me that they helped to plant the seed that made buying the new campus an opportunity.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:The millions of dollars are not just in this car that they're driving, but that's in where their heart is.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. And again, that's that. So am I seeing opportunity? You know what I mean? Uh is super important. But I just think about the I think about guys like um, you know, uh Bach, right? Who on the back of every masterpiece is writing to the glory of God. He knew something else he was tapping into, Matt. Wilberforce.
SPEAKER_02:Before fire emojis, that was fire emojis.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah, exactly. Just dropping it on there. You had the Puritans or even biblical examples. You have guys like Joseph, who just always is finding himself in difficult situations and the dude just refuses to quit. Yeah. He will not quit. And I think that should be one of the greatest defining factors of Christian Christians is that we don't quit on things. Oh, 100%. We serve an immovable God so that we can be immovable in what he's called us to do. And I think if you want to, if you want to see this process unfold of actual kingdom ground, don't just talk about dominion, take it. It looks like faithfulness turning to fruitfulness, turning to expansion, becoming inheritance. Like that to me is the is the fourfold process of how that happens. And it starts with your you you know, you taking command of your own, uh, of your own calling and doing something with it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um but uh I back back on the note of um of continuity.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah I think what's important for continuity, there there are seasons where you're going to be lonely, when you're going to be in the low valleys, you're not gonna always have these beautiful mountaintop experiences. What? You mean it's gonna suck something? We're both we're both originally from Colorado, yeah, and we know what it's like when you go to a certain level on a peak of a mountain, yeah. You know what? You can see for miles, yeah, and it is so beautiful. You've got great vision, you can see exactly what direction you're going or where you want to go. Yeah, but you know where the real work happens down in the valleys where you can't see more than a couple feet in front of you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I think along with that, there is a very key important factor in continuity. It's faithfulness, yes, but I think it's also community. There's an African proverb that says, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. In the same way, it's good to surround yourself with like-minded people who are going to push you, other believers who are going to walk the walk with you and not just let you be satisfied with the status quo. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yep. You're not you're not sticking this thing out by yourself.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, you're you're not supposed to. Yeah, be careful. I heard that there's a lion rolling around. Well, lone lone wolf Christianity is not Christianity at all. That's that's the problem, right? But yeah, there's a there's a lion looking for somebody to devour. It's gonna be it's gonna be delicious. No, no smoker Christians that uh step away from the body, you know, for a little bit for a vice. All right, I got a I got a line for you. I want you to um work around with me, okay? Okay. Uh ambition almost always in the Bible is used as a uh as a negative thing. Selfish ambition is is how it tends to be um stated. I I wanted to say this. Don't kill your ambition, aim it. How do you how do you unpack this? Like, think about humility for a second, maybe some uh false ideas around that. A lot of people I would I think would find your confidence. Uh, I think they'd want to label it as pride or confidence in somebody doing something would want to label it as pride. How do you point your ambition in a way where it doesn't come off as uh egotistical or or um It may good I'm I'm fine with that.
SPEAKER_02:I mean that's not my heart's intent. I I think another quote and kind of like one of my life mantras is you know the difference between the pioneers and the settlers or the trailblazers and the settlers.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:How you can recognize who they are, they're the ones with the arrows in their back. That's good. And if you're gonna blaze a trail, you're gonna have to be different. Yeah. You're not gonna be status quo, you're not gonna be just part of the flock. I mean, you're gonna still be a sheep. You have to have a shepherd and be following the shepherd. But what I'm saying is you're not going to just mesh with everybody.
SPEAKER_00:That's so good. Doug Wilson has this quote on this. He says that uh dangerous men come first and do the important work, careful men come later and write about what the dangerous men did. Yeah, and usually a critique. Yeah, yeah, all always a critique. That's the point, is they're always like, oh, here's here's how we should have done it. No, somebody's got to just stand in the gap. And I I agree. I think you're gonna have to take some punches, and I think we have an enemy that opposes you, and if he can get under your skin, uh that that's a that's a problem. It's part of the prayer life we were talking about and working out the things that Christ has called us to.
SPEAKER_02:I I think I think too, circling back, uh confidence brings God glory. But when you dream like I it sounds crazy, it's kind of hard to articulate it. It almost is like a uh a Kanye West level concept that you try and like put into put into words that is just hard because it's a tiered structured thing, right? But confidence, when you set such big, hairy, audacious goals that are only God size, you have to walk in a manner like he's gonna do it. Yeah, you actually have to have faith. You have to have faith, right? And you have to be and carry yourself in a certain way. Like it's not confidence, it's confidence, it's right. Yeah, no, it truly is. It truly is. And and being able to look back, like I said, about the pioneers of the trailblazers and and study your scars. Yeah, see where you've come from. Like failure is not an option. Yeah, failure only happens when you stop. Yeah, and every failure it's a lesson learned. Fail as uh as an acronym is first attempt in learning. And then you sail, second attempt in learning. Nice, and then you tail, third attempt in learning. Oh my gosh. But if you go back to fail again and fourth attempt in learning, you just maybe it's time to choose a difference.
SPEAKER_00:My brother, you're just bleeding leadership. I love it. You're like acronyms for days. Let's go.
SPEAKER_02:I think I would have made an amazing Baptist pastor.
SPEAKER_00:I think you would have done great. I think you would have been uh maybe more Pentecostal, though. I don't know. I don't know. Baptica, I don't make that. There you go. No, no, that's a that's a taking me back to YWAM. That's a that's a recipe. Yeah, YWAM is uh, yeah, I would say more in the non-denominational, but you know it's great. Well, brother, I um I've really enjoyed having you on and just talking through this topic. Um, what I see God doing in your life and your business and the stuff that you're working through, the kingdom of God is great and it's an encouragement. I wish more guys would take more seriously this call to take dominion, to build kingdom soil, to work businesses, to hire people on, to grow uh the kingdom imprint in a in a bigger way. And I just want to say you keep getting after it, keep crushing it. And uh as we raise the banner for Christ out here in Texas, I'm honored to have you on the team and a part of everything we're doing here, bro. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:And I want to say to you as well, I'm so grateful that you took the step of obedience, that you came out to the land of a thousand churches. Yep. And that you're gonna be faithful to God's calling. I appreciate you bringing you, your family, your team. Fred, you're amazing, by the way. Yes. Uh, and and taking that step of faith that just seems stupid by normal church Christian stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, dude, steps of faith are are crazy, but we've got to that's the uh that's the trailblazer in you.
SPEAKER_02:That's the pioneer, and don't be afraid to wear those arrows and those battle scars with pride. Amen. Because what God is gonna do is gonna be amazing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, scars in the kingdom are currency. So that's that's it's real life. All right. Well, guys, have an amazing week, and uh we'll we'll uh talk to y'all next week.
