Navigate Podcast
Welcome to Navigate. We got tired of the same ole answers when we started looking for help when it came to our walks with God. So together we go deeper than most would on topics that most people have heard or were taught but never fully understood. It is our way of simplifying concepts that we may have over complicated throughout our lives. Bringing theology and life experience into each episode. It is our hope and desire to help you Navigate your Christian walk.
Navigate Podcast
Into The Dark With Jonah
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What if boredom in your faith is a symptom of quiet disobedience? We dig into Jonah’s flight from Nineveh to expose how comfort, brand safety, and clean optics can sabotage real ministry to the poor, the broken, and the hostile. From moving a struggling family and sharing the gospel mid U-Haul to confronting cultural pressure to appease, we wrestle with why obedience always demands courage—and why light must advance if darkness is ever going to retreat.
Jonah’s narrative becomes our mirror: a prophet reroutes, a storm exposes, and pagans encounter Yahweh while God chases His reluctant messenger. We talk about sitting at tables with sinners without caving, refusing hazmat Christianity on one side and hollow “relevance” on the other. The challenge is to confront sin with compassion and then stay to disciple when repentance breaks out. If you’ve ever preferred the mic drop to the long walk, this is your wake-up call to shepherd, not just shout.
We also unpack divine interruptions, the gap between our preferred outcomes and God’s purposes, and why returning to the last clear command can reignite a stagnant soul. Expect practical takeaways anchored in Scripture: live awake, redeem the time, be in the world but not of it, and embrace the peace Christ provides for hard places. If you’ve been avoiding your Nineveh—whether that’s a neighborhood, a movement, or a messy relationship—consider this your invitation to go, confront, and commit to the slow work of discipleship.
If this conversation pushed you toward courageous obedience, share it with a friend, leave a review, and subscribe so you don’t miss what’s next. Where is God calling you to step into the dark this week?
All right, everybody. Welcome to uh navigate podcast. I'm on with my brother in Christ, Teddy Sorels today. Teddy, what is up, man? How are you doing?
SPEAKER_00:I'm doing great, man. It's uh 2026. Can you believe it, man? It's uh it's the 13th day of 2026. 2026. Yeah. And it has been a while, 2025 has been a wild ride.
SPEAKER_01:It's been wild. I mean, we we invaded uh Venezuela, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, you I invaded East Texas. You invaded East Texas, and then we kidnapped uh a president in Venezuela. I thought that was pretty awesome.
SPEAKER_01:There's clearly some connection there. Yeah, I don't know what it is yet, but in the spirit, there's something, there's something going on. Right. You know, we're just yeah, and uh man, we could get into a whole conversation about this.
SPEAKER_00:We could we could spend the next 15 podcasts talking about that, man.
SPEAKER_01:Listen, all I'm going to say is yes, oil is involved, but also I'm happy to see like a known thug, gangster, sex trafficker, uh drug worker pulled out of a position like that. And if you don't like that, I would say go read Habakkuk where God uses evil people to punish other people.
SPEAKER_00:Um, and it's okay. Uh here's the only thing I'm gonna say about it, and then we can do whatever we're gonna do. The United States military and its new War Department and Secretary of War have completely changed the world stage and how the world views our military.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so when he says no more men in dresses in our military, he means it.
SPEAKER_01:We're we're done with that scuba on. There's the Greek, you feel better about it.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And so when you send special operators into Venezuela and do what they did, yeah, is totally like I'm all like my whole warrior ethos is just hoo-rocked.
SPEAKER_01:That's like every SEALs movie you watch growing up as a kid.
SPEAKER_00:I wasn't if they wouldn't tell me no, because I'm going to be 53 years old, I'd go and reenlist. We're doing it right now.
SPEAKER_01:We're doing it right now. Yeah, it's uh it's a crazy time to be alive. Yes, and um uh I'm excited to be getting kingdom work done while we're watching things play out on the on the main stage as well with nations. But here's what I know uh nations rise, nations fall, Christ and his kingdom continue and will prevail. That's right, and all things will be redeemed back to him. So praise the Lord for that. I I'm pumped today to talk to you because uh you Teddy, um, you stand out to me. Here, here's why. We we live in a time where it seems like um, man, I'm trying to think of the best way to say this. Doing legitimate ministry to poor, to the hurting, to the broken is uh unpopular and it's not lucrative. You know what I mean? Like it's just uh like if you actually want to pour into the least of these, if you actually want to care about hurting people, it's you know it's really it's really hard to do church, right?
SPEAKER_00:Sustain it's hard to sustain church in that area of ministry, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you you know if you're uh if you want to launch a church and you want to get things going, you almost need to avoid those people to start because you're you're you're busy trying to find people who actually fund what you want to do and you gotta focus on donors and look. I I read Divine and the Trellis, great book. I I agree with it. I think um kingdom finances and all those things matter, stewardship, the works, but there is an element where it seems like in in the church world, the circles that I've been in, it almost seems like oftentimes we're dodging um the least of these because it's not conducive to building the organizational comfort that you need, or or the comfort of the other people in your congregation because messy people make messes.
SPEAKER_00:And and God called us at Living Water Church to plan a church or that was our target group, like they're the least of these. And so when we surveyed East Texas and we surveyed Cladewater, and Cladewater is my hometown, I knew Gladewater, yeah. But one of the things that jumped out to me in those demographics was that there was an overwhelming next generation millennials and Gen Zs living in Gladewater, and a number and 25% of all residents in Gladewater were single mom homes. And Marilyn and I were both raised by single moms, and the impoverished nation or nature of Gladewater is to such the extent that there had there hadn't you hadn't seen a new church in Gladewater in forever. Yes, but God specifically called us to that. Like I wanted, like you left Denver, I wanted to go to Denver and plant a church. Uh, but that's not what God called us to. And it's uh for over four years now, it's been an amazing experience.
SPEAKER_01:I heard a gentleman say here, um, speaking about churches and it let's say in the area, and I want to be thoughtful because there's tons of good people, tons of good pastors, good stuff happening. But he said it's almost like the culture here is, and he's in a position to know. He said it's almost like uh people in churches here want messy and broken people to get saved. They just don't want it to happen at their church.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, or or they don't want to be, or they don't want to be the disciple makers of those messy and hurting people. Uh, because to make disciples that make disciples, you have to engage in their lives. Yeah. I was thinking about this and I was thinking we might get in it into it later and into the content of this podcast. But had an when I got saved, I had a like I came up in the men's ministry, and if it wasn't for that men's ministry, I'd I'm pretty sure I would be lost today.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Uh but I became quickly the leader of that men's ministry. And when you're a leader of the men's ministry in a small country church, you you literally become uh the CEO director of New Hope Well U-Hall. And you become the guy that leads out in the ministry of moving people. And so a pastor calls me up one afternoon and he says, Hey, Bub, I need you to go move this couple. And this couple had just recently got saved and oh man, just bottom of the barrel, poor and and uh not, you know, dirty and not taking care of themselves. And and I knew that it was going to be an issue to move them. Yeah, you know, it was just gonna be, for lack of a better word, gross.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I told Pastor, I said, No, I don't want to do that. He says, Well, why don't you come see me? Yeah, I guess I'm doing let's go see, let's go see Pastor. So I go and I sit down in his office and we have a conversation about ministry because I had just surrendered to ministry.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And he says, Bubba, he says, the ministry's not for you. I'm like, why? And he I said, I couldn't do anything else. He says, because ministry's dirty.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I go, well, yeah, I get that. He says, well, if it's dirty, then you got to get dirty to do the ministry. You should smell like sheep. Right. Exactly. And that and it ended with that that wisdom. You if you're going to be a shepherd, then you need to smell like your sheep. And so I took that to heart and and I I said, okay. So I called a man up, said, Hey, we gotta go move this couple. They're like, No, I don't want to. I said, shut up, let's go.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And uh we showed up and it was gross.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It was gross, gross.
SPEAKER_01:It was it was what you thought it was gonna be.
SPEAKER_00:It was exactly what I thought it would be. But here's the greatness of that story. Uh the guy, his name's Chuck, uh, he didn't know Jesus.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And uh when we moved him, uh six at least six of us had shared the gospel with him, and we led him to the Lord while we were uh unloading him at his new house. And uh and encouraged him, said, Hey, look, this is what it looks like to grow in Christ. Yeah. And uh you need to engage in our men's ministry, and we're gonna teach you how to be a godly husband and a godly leader of your home and how to make a difference in your life. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And uh Yeah, that that to me is that to me is just in a you know, in a in a quick story, the picture of I think how um how let me say it this way, that is a non-negotiable or a bare minimum for any pastor.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Is like you're you're going to have to do things that you don't want to do and put yourself in uncomfortable situations frequently.
SPEAKER_00:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Like I another era, we talked about this briefly. We were just texting, but even like counseling, you know what I mean? How many uh how many marriages and different couples you got to sit down with and walk through stuff and work? I mean, it is emotionally taxing, it's difficult. Sometimes, sometimes both of them hate you. Yes, you know what I mean, and that pro and you're like, I'm not getting, you know, paid for this. It's it's not a benefit to me to sit here and piss you guys off. I can say, I can just give you stuff you want to hear. Right. I mean, I I could tell you so many stories of like, man, it's just it's inserting yourself into bad situations with no possible reward outside of kingdom benefits. Exactly. You know, and there's I get that from uh some you know some viewpoints, there's um there's not a lot of benefit from that from a you know, you know, I mean a a branding standpoint or a clean standpoint. But I remember, man, back at um uh uh church that I was, you know, I jumped into a smaller campus and was working on building it up and pastoring there. And it was um one of my really it was like my first kind of uh pastoral, let's say full-time gig, if you want to think about it that way. And my first prayers, and maybe this was insane, but it seemed biblical to me, was God bring the mess. Yeah, bring messy people, bring the broken pre people, bring bring the people that are not put together. Boy, do you get them? Yeah, right. But like I remember having this problem where it was like people spent more time trying to look sanctified than actually getting sanctified. And what would happen is these people that were actually broken would show up, and all the people with a facade found out oh, it's okay. Yeah, like I'm not it's okay to struggle with stuff. It's uh like they're not gonna hate me for the standard that we proclaim from the from the pulpit is not the standard that everybody has achieved in the pews. And like work starts getting done. Not only are sick people getting better and they're getting healing, but people who are faking it start to find out I can be honest. Yeah. And and that to me is where the spirit of God can work. You know what I mean? Where we're all faking it, you're not you, you're not, you're not growing with the spirit. You are working on an excellent strategy for growing a congregation of liars. And I'm I'm saying it bluntly because I think it's a it's a problem. You know, and we've in a lot of circles, I think there's a a created convenience and a Starbucks mentality that is we need to create a really clean, convenient third space where people feel so comfortable that uh that when they're here, they have the ability to act like a better person than they are.
SPEAKER_00:Right. And then and I get it too, you know, like I talk about third space often. Like I especially when you're planting a church and you're in you're trying to start something from nothing, and you're and you've read all the books about church growth and leadership, and and you're trying to incorporate everything that you've ever learned about church into this new church plant. Um there's a philosophy of that third space that makes sense. Yeah. But and when you're looking at it from a 30,000-foot view, yeah, this is what you really need to be concerned about. And it's the gospel of Christ transforming lives, bringing dead people to life.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And dead people stink.
SPEAKER_01:And they're nasty, and they and and we were those people and sometimes still act like us, you know.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly correct.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So so I wanted to take that and I want to segue into our topic today. All right. You your doctoral dissertation was on Jonah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I used Jonah as my preaching project to uh to train people. It's a it's a historical narrative, right? And so narratives are a little harder to preach.
SPEAKER_01:It's not allegory.
SPEAKER_00:That's that's an altogether different podcast, right? And so and so my uh goal was to uh show people and pastors and preachers what a text-driven invitation looks like. That's good. And how you train decision counselors or decision partners, prayer partners, whatever you want to call them, in a text-driven invitation uh using a gospel transition. So I chose a narrative, a historical narrative to do that. And I didn't want it to be long, you know, that was going to take you know two years to do. Yeah. So Jonah was a great six-sermon series package. Yeah, jumped. I talk with my hands. You're good. You're jumped on Italian, I think. Yeah, right. So uh, you know, all piled in into a great narrative that you can use. So Jonah was my preaching series project.
SPEAKER_01:Awesome. Okay. All right. I have to I have to ask you, do you think that this is totally a sidebar, but do you think Jonah actually died? Or do you think uh the depths of Sheol for him was was uh was um Yeah, I don't think he died.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. Yeah, I think yeah, I don't I think that the him crying from the depths of Sh Sheol was the A picture of him being in the depths of the ocean, basically. Yeah, because he was pointing to Jerusalem and the temple and and and so he moves from past tense to present tense. Yeah. And uh so yeah, I don't think he died.
SPEAKER_01:I think I'm gonna fight you on that later.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, that's fine. But here's what I here's what I will say also is that what he thought was an instrument of death, God used as an instrument of salvation. Come on, man. And so and and I don't and to your point, I don't think it matters. Yeah. No, whether he's not for the not for the physically or whether he was have come to the end of himself.
SPEAKER_01:I would say it matters if you think it's allegory or not, but you know, another time you I love that and I agree, and the the the guts of that story um is so rich in gospel narrative, but the the thing that I wanted to get to is this reality that God um God is not afraid of the dark. And and I think sometimes I would even say it this way, this might be a way weird way to say it, but God is attracted to the dark, like he's not not from a sinful way, obviously. Our our Lord is not not attracted to sin in any way, but I think he is invading those spaces on an ongoing basis. And I think his kids, the church, is supposed to be doing the same thing. We're called into the dark, like even the whole narrative of the incarnation is Christ becoming flesh, right? The light of the world, yes, yeah, that extinguishes all darkness, leaving, if you want to think about the the the let's say the immediate presence of the father becoming incarnate, putting his heels in the dirt as a human to a broke family, you know, born in a manger. Uh, talk about an invasion, you know what I mean, in into the dark itself. Did you ever read um, did you ever read Paralandra, um, out of the silent planet, some of the C.S. Lewis stuff. No. They they talked about um Lewis talks, uh, he has this whole like it's called the space trilogy or the ransom trilogy. And his whole idea is the Earth is the silent planet. It's the one that went dark, and that's the one that God is invading. It's the dark planet. You know what I mean? It's the one that's turned away. All of creation obeys Christ. Everything, every planet is in orbit doing what it was meant to do, how it was supposed to do, the one group of people that are, you know, putting off obedience to Christ is us, right? You know, and so I just think this idea that the darkness, um darkness is not something as Christians that we are supposed to avoid or steer around for convenience sake, where now we have a good pocket, let's avoid it. I could I can get into all the nuance of this, and we'll probably talk about it a little bit, but would you agree with that that we're that that as Christians we're supposed to be invading the darkness, not avoiding it?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I literally say it every week, every Sunday, a part of the vision that God's given us at Living Water Church is to be a lighthouse for our city, shining his gospel light into the darkness of our communities. Yes. That God would use us as that light to go into the darkness with the gospel of Christ.
SPEAKER_01:And that it has got to run right up against the grain of all of us, right? Yes. Like uh so I mean just think about convenience culture in general. You know, trying to get people to mobilize um apart from conviction from the Holy Spirit is is darn near close to impossible. But I really believe darkness doesn't retreat because Christians just complain about it or talk about it or post about it, although you should be open and honest and tell the truth. It retreats when light advances in obedience, right? Like the whole, you know, John 1, right? Like light has come into the world, uh, whether it's John John three, you know, men love darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil, or the light uh has come into the world and the darkness hasn't overcome it, comprehended it, or whatever translation you want to look at. But it's a reality that Christ has invaded the darkness with light, and the body of Christ is supposed to do the same. And I think Jonah is supposed to be the typological picture of this. Every every type in scripture shows up and fails at what Christ actually accomplishes, right? Whether it's the Israelites going into the wilderness or you know, this story in particular, um, there's always this this was what it was supposed to be, and he fell short because he was a man, but Christ ultimately fulfills it. Jonah immediately goes the opposite direction, right? Instead of going to Nineveh like God calls him to, he immediately loads up and goes to uh to Joppa. Um, not interested. I want to I want to get out of dodge, I want to do something else. Just for a second, like when you think about Nineveh today, what it what are the things that you feel like people are generally avoiding?
SPEAKER_00:Like it's just not uh avoiding avoiding Nineveh.
SPEAKER_01:Well, we love I think we love talking about the dark, right? Like, oh though that they need Jesus, that needs a lot of help. And look, I just brought up Venezuela at the beginning of this of this podcast. There's a reality where it's really popular to talk about how bad those things are. Nobody wants to get their hands dirty. Right. Like one I think about right away is um like the whole LGBTQ, you know, alphabet soup group of people. I think it's very popular in churches to talk about how lost they are and how messed up they are and how we got to fight against that agenda. Yes and amen. Do we want to reach them?
SPEAKER_00:Right. You know, do we want to see those? Do you want to tell them that they're lost in sin and that without Jesus there is no salvation? Do you want to engage them with the truth of the gospel, the light of Christ that extinguishes that darkness in in such a way that you can't come to Jesus. Jesus, you come to Jesus in that darkness because the light extinguishes it, and you say yes to Jesus, you are then everything changes, and then you become the light of Christ, and you're convicted of your sin, and you know you no longer walk in the ways of the world and the ways of your flesh, and you walk accordingly to the gospel of Christ. That that changes, and so we appease without all that truth, and then somehow we say, Hey, we're you know, we're friendly, yeah, and they're they know Jesus, and but they can't know Jesus if they continue to live in their sin. Right. And so there's no there's no light being shown into the darkness.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You've you've literally covered it up and hidden it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So that they can still operate however they want.
SPEAKER_01:However they want. I I think we did um I brought this up on a couple of podcasts ago. We did there was a No Kings protest down here a little while ago. I think there was probably, I don't know, between six and eight hundred people that showed up, you know, the blue-haired feminazi, you know, signs saying things like, F your Jesus and keep your king off my kids. And like it was it was interesting to me because the whole protest is supposed to be about it was like a very like anti-Donald Trump trying to be a king. Trying to be a king. But the the consistency between we hate Donald Trump and we hate Jesus was a strange, you know, it's not a strange parallel if you think about it at some level, but it's interesting to me that they're equating those two. And there was four of us down there trying to pray for people and engage people, and we got signs that say Jesus is king. How can we pray for you? Trying to dialogue and talk with people. And I'm, you know, look, we're we're we're in the middle, you know, the buckle of the Bible belt down here. And I'm like, where are the people engaging the darkness? Right. Where are the people in like they're lost? They need Jesus. Somebody better do it, and we're not gonna do it hiding in the back of a church waiting for Jesus to come back. We have got to engage the lost. And I know talking with you, like when you start, you know, have been doing church and starting that you're always telling me about how to get boots on the ground and how to get people in you were knocking on doors and inviting people and sharing the gospel with people. Like, I um why do you think that burns out in churches?
SPEAKER_00:I don't know that we have enough time. Uh you have well, you get comfortable in your own you get comfortable in your own salvation. Like you you become complacent.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And once you become complacent, you're like, hey, I got my I, you know, we're good. Yeah, I cashed in my ticket. Yeah. You know, I'm good. I might make it to church once a month. Yeah. You know, I might give some money every now and then. Like, leave me alone in my comfortable life.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And whatever it is that I'm doing, uh, and I'm good. And you know, you you brought up like what are like what's Nineveh? Like, why are we so opposed to to going to Nineveh? Like, I'm assuming that that's where we're going with this. And we're we're opposed for the same reasons Jonah was opposed. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Turns out.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. And so that's why we don't want to go. Because we, if we're Christian, like we we have to assume uh Jonah's a prophet of God, he's been used by God, otherwise, he wouldn't be a prophet of God. Uh, we know he existed to say that he didn't exist was to say Jesus was a liar. Um, we know that God called him in his own narrative, you know, when we read Jonah. Jonah, if that's true, then Jonah knows the character of God. He knows that he's graceful, and he knows he's looking to save, and he knows he's wanting to change people. And Jonah's like, no, I don't want no, I don't want no part of that. I'm good.
SPEAKER_01:I'm good. I'm good. I like ministering to the people that I have right here. That's right. I'm just not interested. I just think about like people's job environments and the disconnect between who they are as a Christian and who they are as a professional, you know, businessman. I think about um city council meetings. I think about school boards, I think about places where it is unpopular to speak up and be honest and say something about it. I mean, and I I think you know this about Nineveh already, but I mean they were famous for being a violent, uh, they were wealthy, they were violent. I think I I read um one commentary, it was one of the one of the famous uh execution methods for the the the people there was that they would bury somebody in the sand up to their up to their neck and then nail their tongue to the sand and wait till they like died of uh you know dehydration. And I was just like, I get it. Like I I I get it, man. Like it's uh it's it's a crazy environment. And uh, you know, the parallels that we think about are obviously going to be slightly different, you know, unless you're in Nigeria right now or something.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I I don't know. When we think about Nineveh, of course, you know, as pastors and theologians if for what we are as theologians, we you know, we always have we're trying to make correlations or we're trying to make illustrations of Nineveh. Here's what we can say about Nineveh and Jonah is that Nineveh was the known capital of commerce at the time. Uh Nineveh was known for its violence, for its paganism, completely opposite of what God was doing in Israel or trying to do in Israel. We know that Israel was not being obedient, and that God called a prophet of his out of Israel to go preach to the Nineveh. Into the dark. Into the darkness.
SPEAKER_03:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:And Jonah said, Not only do I do I not want to do any of that, I'm gonna run as far away from where Nineveh is as I can possibly get.
SPEAKER_01:Hard pass.
SPEAKER_00:Tarsus. I don't know nothing about Tarsus, but that's where I'm going. I'm gonna go get on a boat.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm gonna hide out and I'm gonna run as far as I can away from you.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah. Going going the opposite direction as fast as he possibly could. And and it just I think one of the principles that we can pull from Jonah that I think is really important for all of us is we're talking about this. Because my my hope is this year, uh, for everybody who's listened to this podcast, uh, for you, for me, for our congregations, is quit being afraid of the dark. Right. Like that is that's actually our mission. That's where we're called. If you think you're not called to the mess, I'm telling you, as a Christian, you're called to the mess. You think you're not you're called to like short up your bets and be careful. And I came to Christ 20 years ago and I've been so blessed, and you're still telling the same story, but like faith hasn't driven you into any difficulty, it may not be faith at this point. I mean, I feel like the most bored Christians I know are the ones who are just disobedient.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And it's because principle one that I wanted to bring up of invading the dark, if you want to think about this way, is only the courageous truly walk in obedience. You have to have courage. Like if you're going to be faithful, it is going to take courage because it's going to drive you to your knees. You're going to have to pray and rely on God a lot. Because if you if you don't have to rely on God in the step that you're taking, it's probably not a step of faith in the first place. I'd say it this way if you're bored, you're probably disobedient.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Would you agree with that?
SPEAKER_00:I I would agree with yeah, all of it. I think boredom, I think boredom is a state of mind. And when you think, you know, if you're bored, then it's like, go do something.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You you're telling me God hasn't told you to do anything.
SPEAKER_00:Do something. And you know, we we talk about all the things that we could do as far as advancing the gospel and obedience, and you know, when you think about going into the darkness and shining the light, like there's a like if you're afraid of the dark as a Christian, and we're talking spiritually here, uh, you've missed it because you have the light of Christ that extinguishes all darkness. Man, go shine the light.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Go, go. I mean, you know, I grew up in East Texas, you know, I, you know, was in the army, and you know, one of the illustrations that, you know, we've come a long ways in lumens.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, back in the day, you know, you had your door cell batteries, and you, and you know, you try to shine the light, you know, somewhere and you can only get a couple of feet in front of you. Now you can get on the river and you can go fishing in the river and slash somebody across the you know the world, it seems like, and make it, you know, they have they describe these lights as a same as day, you know, type lights. And you know, you have the light of Christ. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yep. And and and what's funny too, I love that illustration because you'll piss a lot of people off on the lake waving one of those lights.
SPEAKER_00:You will make them so mad. So mad.
SPEAKER_01:I just think most believers today, maybe contrary to the to the let's say the type of person that we like to bring up, isn't um rebelling loudly, they're rerouting silently.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's good.
SPEAKER_01:I'm finding a way to exit the, you know, take the exit from where this sermon or this word is telling us that we're supposed to go, and I'm gonna find a convenient reroute that allows me to still go and do something, but not what God told me to do. Like in my head, I'm wondering if if, you know, Jonah still feels like, well, I'm doing something at least. I'm leaving where I was. I'm gonna go somewhere. Maybe I'll share the gospel with some people down there. You know what I mean? Like, I just think about the way that our brains work. Like we know from the the top-down view, it's just blatant disobedience. But I wonder what lies rerouting, you know what I mean, that Jonah told himself as he was going the opposite direction of where we he was supposed to go.
SPEAKER_00:That's a good, you know, that's a good thought. Like, you know, because you you know, we don't actually know, you know, with Jonah, but you can make some uh cool implications, you know, like when he did uh secure passage uh and got on the boat and immediately the storm comes upon the boat, yeah, you know, in a what would we call a rare hurricane on the Mediterranean, yeah, you know, he's down below sleeping.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You know, maybe, maybe he thought he got away.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, thank God.
SPEAKER_00:You know, maybe, you know, maybe he thought, you know, ha I got I tricked, I tricked you guys. Uh, you know, and and so the implication then maybe, maybe he convinced himself then I'm gonna go do some good work in Tarsus. Yeah. Who cares about who cares about Nanom?
SPEAKER_01:You know, and it's the classic thing too. What we say in our head sounds so stupid out loud because he's going and he's sleeping on the boat, the storm hits, and the guys on the boat are like, what god do you serve? And he's like, the god of the wind and the waves and the earth and everything. It's like, wait, so you're trying to hide from the God who controls all of this. I bet he uh I bet he felt pretty stupid in the moment.
SPEAKER_00:Oh man, there's so much there on that boat ride. Yeah, I mean, the whole story's Jesus, right? Yeah, the the the sailors, you know, they're pagans and they're crying out to their pagan little g god Elohim. So in the Hebrew it's Elohim, Elohim. Yep, you know, and then they question Jonah and they're like, hey, what's going on? Jonah tells them about Yahweh Elohim, and so Jonah, and then they're like, Well, what do we do? And then Jonah admits it's his fault, you know, just toss me over. Well, they move the pagans move from Elohim Elohim to Yahweh Elohim in their worship, which is like it's like they get saved. They get saved while they throw Jonah over into the sea.
SPEAKER_01:When you have Jesus uh is the is the picture of this too, right? Like Jonah uh gets sacrificed out of punishment to bring peace, right? Uh in his sin and brokenness. Jesus gives himself over to bring peace, right? Both, you know, you get the both sleep on the boat thing and everything else. But I mean it's I just think when we think about people, I think the the phrases we'll we'll use without using them are I'll serve but not there. I'll speak truth, but not to them. Uh I'll go deep spiritually as long as it doesn't disrupt my life. And like, look, Christian, Jesus is invading your life. Why? Because there's darkness there too.
SPEAKER_00:Amen. There's darkness and darkness in the deep recesses of our heart. Or you'll get this one. You know, you've been a Christian for a while, right? Yep. And you've done your work. Like I was just saying Sunday morning about how uh I had gone to 14 youth youth camps straight.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I'm so glad I don't have to go to no more youth camps. Right? You know, so we do these things, like, you know, you put your work in. It's like I put my work in, I'm done. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:You know, no, you're not done. God's got something else. Buckle. Yeah, the second you say that, God's gonna, God's gonna put you somewhere else. I just think uh we have a lot of Christians out there who love podcasts but avoid people. They're the they're the love sermons, but I don't want any confrontation or have to communicate that content in any difficult situation. I love missional language, but I avoid the missional locations. Right. You know, like I'm just I'm I'm not interested in that area. And um I think comfort is probably the most effective enemy of obedience in the church today.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I I get it. Like I think why I think about Jonah in this way is because I got I gotta analyze myself. You know, I'm I'm trying to get into my own head and my own sin patterns, you know what I mean, to to to read the story of Jonah, or you'll make Jonah all the people you're not. You know what I mean? And I think we I think we do that, you know, all the time, right? The storm doesn't uh come because Jonah sinned loudly, it comes because he ran silently. And I'm like, yeah, most of us, if we cannot make a big business out of something, you know what I mean, and get away with it, we're gonna do that every freaking time. And the glory is that God chases him down. You know, you can't out, you can't outrun the presence of God.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. The the hound of heaven, Jonah saying Jonah, whether Jonah realized that or not, he comes to he comes to the end of himself in great uh realization.
SPEAKER_01:I love the I love the story of Jonah when it comes to free will. You know what I mean? Every time we have this conversation with somebody, I'm like, man, did Jonah get his way? Did Jonah really, you know, it's like seems like God's like, no, I'm gonna get you where I want to get you, bro.
SPEAKER_00:There's a great providential uh theological aspect in the story of Jonah, and and it just goes to show you that nothing, whether you're a free will Armenian or you're a 18-point Calvinist, uh nothing ever surprises God. Yeah, and you will not thwart his will. Yeah. And so, and Jonah found Jonah found that out.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. The oh man, I wanna I want to go down that wormhole, but uh I think um I I want to say this on the podcast, and I want to make sure guys get this. As we're talking about this story, if your Christian life is feeling dull, powerless, boring, ask where you've said no quietly. Oh, that's good. Just ask that question, right? Ask where God, where does God keep pressing me? And it comes up in a sermon, and then as soon as I'm leaving, I'm pushing it down, or somebody brings it up, and I'm I'm acting like it didn't come from God, you know, because I'm afraid of the fact that it might be. Like obedience always um, I think reintroduces fear into the equation. Oh, that's good. And I just think as Christians, we need to embrace the fact that God said, I didn't give you a spirit of fear for the for the reason that he's sending you into places where you're going to experience that and you're gonna need to know this is uh this is not something that's supposed to inhabit you, but it is supposed to be something you confront. Right. And uh he's telling you to be courageous all the what is it, do not fear 365 times in the Bible, right? One for every day of the year.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I I and I say this a lot too. If you're if you're sick and tired of being sick and tired of getting beat up by the enemy and you can't you can't figure out how to take one more step, go go back to the last place that God told you to do something and do it. Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, because you're not moving past it.
SPEAKER_00:And see what happens.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Dude, that's such a that's such a good word. I I I want like everybody to just listen to that, pay attention to it, and seriously consider what is that thing. And it kind of brings me to the the second principle I was thinking about with this, right? The first is that the obedience demands courage, but also we have this kind of, let's say, in the world, not of the world thing that we got to deal with, right? Okay, so when we throw ourselves into the dark, the tendency and the difficulty is that you can become the dark very quickly. You got um maybe some good principles or thoughts for us on this process of how do you how do you find yourself uh at a table full of sinners without caving? And I think the tension in a lot of churches either are um we we become the group that is wearing hazmat suits to avoid other people's sin and difficulty, and we uh we we have a really tight community, we're all gonna die together. Or we functionally try to be the word is relevant, yeah, right. And we will become like the world to try to attract them to now a bastardized gospel that is not the fullness of the representation of the holiness of Christ, but but can get some people here. You know what I mean? Like how how do you how do you rid, you know, how do you ride that line, do you think, as a Christian?
SPEAKER_00:Well, you're you're either I think God calls us as the light and going into the darkness, you're gonna do one or two things. You're either gonna con you're either going to appease or confront. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That's good, man.
SPEAKER_00:And so if you're in the dark with the light of Christ, as the light of Christ is extinguishing that darkness, then you're confronting sin.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so if you go like people talk about I love it when I love it when progressives or you know, liberal theologians love to talk about Jesus. And well Jesus was uh was a was an immigrant, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Stupid is that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Or or Jesus, uh, you know, Jesus, you know, sat and and had dinner with sinners. And I'm like, yeah, he did. He absolutely did. Yeah, but he never once did it without confronting. Right. Never once. Right. He literally calls Zacchaeus down from the tree and says, Hey, I'm gonna go have dinner with you, but to confront him in his in his sin. And so when we somehow or another either separate ourselves, like, you know, that that's also a problem, right? You know, we don't want to go asthmat Christianity. Yeah, we don't want to go confront sin because that does also confront our own issues. And, you know, we're tired or we're comfortable, and you know, I don't want to do that. And it's like, well, then you're just being disobedient. Yeah. And God calls us to obedience. And if we're not actively participating in obedience, then we're not coming into the fullness of Christ. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I think uh here too, selective sanctification gets put into play because when you invite messy people into your world, your mess comes out. You know, in the same way that somebody who hasn't been married gets married and they find out that they're a way more sinful, prideful, selfish person than they thought they were. You know what I mean? When you invite other people in, man, it's it's easy to get frustrated or irritated, or suddenly I'm being sanctified in ways. I don't want to be sanctified. You know, I I posted one point, I pissed a bunch of people off, but I said, Your kids are not the problem. They're just revealing your sin. You know, and I had I had a bunch of people. How dare you? And it's like, oh, well, that's what's happening right now. You know, and and we gotta, we gotta get to a place where I think we recognize your sanctification will only go as far as your willingness to step into those messes. Or else you're saying, I'm good with where I'm at. Right. I actually don't want to grow anymore. And I like that I can maintain this appearance and not have to grow past where I am. But in Christ, He's taking us into those places, not just because, and this is the kind of the story of Jonah, is ironically, the lost people get saved. And in the end of the story of Jonah, I don't know if Jonah is. I don't know. Right.
SPEAKER_00:You know, like you you know that uh the story, I'm I might be getting ahead of myself, but the story just ends. Yeah. Yeah, it's total, total like cliffhanger of what where does this go? It's done. Yeah. Like, you know, God says, you know, if you know, with the with the shade, you know, he's Jonah getting ahead of myself. I don't know. Oh, you're good.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, no, you're good. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:So Jonah's crying uh because God saved Nineveh, and then God grows him some shade, and then he's happy. Like I think Jonah's bipolar. Yeah. You know, yeah. It's like, man, you know, this shade's pretty kicking. This is great. This is awesome, but he's still sitting there waiting on God to judge Nineveh. Yeah. And then God asks him, Is it right for you to be mad? Yeah. He's more pissed off about the plant uh, you know, getting destroyed. And then God all all that, and again, and so Jonah's a story of of divine appointments. Yes. And so I call them in in that sermon series divine interruptions. Oh, that's good. And so each divine appointment was a divine interruption in Jonah's life. Yes. And so at the end of that story, God's done interrupting Jonah. Yeah. And we don't know after that, like we don't know if God ever interrupted Jonah again. Yeah. And could you imagine being a prophet of God and not hearing from God? Oh man.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Could you imagine being a Christian and God never interrupting your life for his will and for his glory? Again. What a horrible existence would that be. Yeah. And so Jonah is not Jonah's the antagonist of the story. Yeah. And God's the hero of the story.
SPEAKER_01:It just makes me feel like uh maybe Christians shouldn't spend so much time praying for peace. Because the peace that you're looking for is comfort, and God's trying to get you out of that. Yeah. I mean, Christ is our peace, right? And he's the prince of peace, but that's a peace that's supposed to cover us precisely because he's taking us into places where we're going to need peace that is not circumstantial.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you gotta have you gotta have the right biblical understanding of peace is when you pray for when you pray for peace.
SPEAKER_01:When I when I think about this story of Jonah two men, it makes me think about it. To me, it's the same narrative as um as uh Elisha.
SPEAKER_02:Right?
SPEAKER_01:Because Elisha runs, gets scared, goes up to this mountain. Everybody likes to focus on the gentle, quiet voice and wants to talk about hearing from God in that passage. To me, that passage is God asking him, What are you doing up here? And he answers, I'm the only one. Who's crying? Everybody else is every knee is every everybody's bent the knee. And then God reveals himself in these different ways, and then he asks him the same question again, which implicitly is like, D Do you know who I am? Do you know what we're doing here? Have you totally forgotten? Like, this is about what I'm accomplishing, not about your idea of how the outcomes are supposed to be. Elisha answers the same way again, and then God says, Go elect your replacement.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you're done. Elijah is uh and and but and there so many things about Elijah, but God was in every one of those yeah, he's in the fire, he's in the fire, he's in the wind, he's in the in the void, in the wind, the still small voice of the wind. Uh, but the story of Elijah was was his ob he he f he heard God and he fulfilled he fulfilled his purpose.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And he did go and he did find Elisha and and God and God honored God honored that in the in the whirlwind. We we don't see that in Jonah in Jonah's story. And it it is it is uh it's a it's a stark contrast because we all find ourselves in running moments. Yeah. Uh you know, if you think about Elijah and you think about him running from Jezebel, and you think about coming off the great God battle on Mount Carmel, and he and that victory that he had, and he was tired, slayed, every one of those prophets. Nobody ever thinks about how tired.
SPEAKER_01:How tiring would you be after you're weary?
SPEAKER_00:To kill 900 prophets, how weary he was, and then run from uh Jezebel and him crying out in the wilderness and God sustains him and all those things. The great the great contrast between Jonah and Elijah is that we all have our running moments, but if you listen to God and you acknowledge who he is and what he's about, God will honor that. Yeah. And God honored that with Elijah. With Jonah, he just complained until it was done, and then God never it's possible God never used him again.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I I think uh the fantastic. I agree with all of that. I think either way you end at the end of both of their ministries, yeah. At their own frustration, you know what I mean, and their um their irritation with outcomes that God is choosing over their own. And I just think um, along with this in the world, not of the world, I think there's at least a conversation to be had about um when we think about in the world, not of the world, are your conclusions for what God is going to do in your life totally different than what God's actual plan is? And if it looks different and you got more mess going on and more frustration going on, is that frustration primarily because you're missing the things that God is doing because you're really irritated at what he's not doing? And I think uh we would do well when we think about this in the world, not of the world. My question for you would be are you really enjoying being in the world or are you really enjoying not being in the world? Right. And if God's trying to sanctify you and do a work in your life, my guess is you're gonna find yourself in places you don't necessarily want to be where God is calling you to focus on what he's doing and not what you want.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And and those are there's a big there's a big difference between how we define blessing and how God defines blessing in scripture. And if uh if you don't land there and get that, I think you lose heart very quickly in what Christ is is calling you to do.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Peter teaches that there's an expectation of suffering.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so but there's joy, peace, all the fruit of the spirit come in that expect come in that suffering. Yeah. And so whatever it is that God has called us to do, you should expect suffering. Yeah. Buckle up. Yes. Because it's a part of the process, the sanctification process, the part of what God is doing in the world and using us to accomplish His kingdom, His kingdom work.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. The the third thing I'm thinking about with this is um the reality that ignorance is not your friend. And is we're talking about outcomes, you know. So so you obviously need courage for those steps of obedience. You you need to be in the world, not of the world, but still like involved in what's actually going on. But you also need to be uh aware and open to um more of what's happening than just what you think in your own brain. And what's weird to me in this particular story is that I think um I think Jonah maybe was looking for destruction. He's looking for, you know, the desolation of these people. He goes through preaching, you know, hellfire and damnation. And I think he's legitimately upset when these people start repenting and trusting God. He doesn't like that. You know, and I think maybe sometimes in our social media argumentative um uh way of thinking, we're always actually anticipating or preparing for pushback, rejection, persecution. That's the lens that we have. They're dark, we're light, but he wasn't actually prepared for repentance, soften hearts, God-changing people that he had written off. And I think sometimes like we're prepared to damn people, but not to disciple them. We're prepared for the the outcomes that we think, but like what better to a group, uh, an entire nation that repents than a prophet of God who could be the person to actually help walk them through. Okay, now here's how to live, here's how to do the things that you're called to do. He, I mean, at that point, you have the most malleable, beautiful opportunity to disciple and pour into an entire nation and see uh not just salvific revival, but sanctify uh you know, sanctifying righteous government, you know, and everything else happening at the same time.
SPEAKER_00:That's a great point because Nineveh goes through a great revival, and I want to talk about that in just a second. But we also know that it doesn't last. Yes, yeah, because the Assyrians would be the great enemy of Israel and come and take them into bondage.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so who knows, right? Who knows if Jonah would have had a soft heart and had understood what God had called him to do and being obedient in that, not cry and moan and complain about his own uh selfish desires, you know. And you know, and one of the illustrations that I used in that sermon series is that Jonah should have been more like the prophet John the Baptist and said, I need to decrease so that God can so that God can increase. Yeah. But Jonah was all about Jonah and it was all about his personal pride and his issues. So when he when God rescues him in the fish and spits him out on dry land, the what he preached was very it was nothing. Like it was like God's God's God's about to God's about to uh bring his judgment. Like that's it. That's all that's all we get. But the whole city repents, not and and this is and I love this, and just because it's uh I just love Jonah. I love the the narrative and all that it teaches. But the he it it would take three days to go around Joan to go around Nineveh. Jonah goes into Nineveh for about a day and preaches God's judgment, and then for the next two days, the whole city comes in revival. But it the the the text says that when the when the word reached the king, yeah, it's a great, it's a great word reached. This it's the same word that the that was used, the same Hebrew word, it's Naga, and it's the same Hebrew word that when Jacob wrestled with God and and God uh touched his hip, yeah, it's the same word. And so people will disagree with me on the context and those kinds of things. They're wrong, it's fine. But but it's it's a violent, it can mean a violent strike.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so so this is what I said in my sermon. It's it's like the gospel throat punched the king of Nineveh so hard. I love it, Naga, that he issued a decree across the whole city that everyone would repent, that they would come, and it's a great picture of repentance, and yeah, we want we don't have to get it. Even the even the animals existing. That even the animals, the animals were a part of this repentance. Yeah, and Jonah could have participated in that great, amazing revival that was taking place. But the gospel went into Nineveh, Jonah goes out of Nineveh. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I it's such an important reminder to all of us, too. And I I again I'm just thinking about our context and social media and the aggressive lines that were drawn. Look, never compromise truth for unity. Okay. I get that, but also are you prepared to actually like disciple people and do something if you get some breakthrough? Like if you actually meet with people and start talking and something happens, are you immediately just like, honestly, I'm kind of hoping to just give them the truth and roll. I'm gonna give them a drive by guilting. Right. And then I'm gonna roll out. And I think we we have to remember as Christians, God's calling us to win people, not arguments. God's calling us to like win this person with the gospel and then walk with them, not just make sure that they know I said what I needed to say and you're wrong. Right. And and I think we have a love for with the lines that we're drawing and the way that we're doing things, you know, what I said, whether it's true or not, is the is the mic drop moment, and then I walk out. And I would say with Christians, there are no mic drops. You we're supposed to, we're to be prepared to walk people through the process and be there with people and help, you know, walk alongside people in the mess, uh, even when the circumstances are different than what you think. And oftentimes they're going to be in your relationship with Jesus. We don't control outcomes, we don't get to predict different people's responses or how they're going to function. Um, and we don't most certainly decide who receives grace and who does not in the kingdom. That's that's God. Yeah. And sometimes it's frustrating the people that don't get it that you think well. Sometimes it's more frustrating the people that do receive it that you just don't want to spend time with. You know, it's like, ah, I just this person's not as awesome. I just don't like them as much, you know.
SPEAKER_00:I don't like hanging out with them. I don't like the car they drive. They don't they don't believe in the same things I believe in. They're anti-gun, you know, all these, all these things. But we do have this habit, and especially because I I'm I I'm that way. Like I'm that way, you know, like I'm man, uh what what did I hear you say the other day? It might have been on a podcast that you were the right you were to the right of like you it it got a little it was a little political. Yeah, you were to the right of Genghis Khan. I'm like, I love that because that's where I'm at. You came to see me, yeah, yeah, to the right of Genghis Khan, and I have deep rooted political convictions about those things, I believe, that are all based upon my biblical worldview. Yeah. And there are some vile, evil people out there that are saying things about you know our political landscape that are just ridiculous and vile, like for example, make you know, making fun of and mocking uh the assassination of Charlie Kirk, right? Yeah, yeah. But God's called me to share the gospel with them. And if they get saved, I should expect to walk through that with them. And and so I have to check my own heart and and engage in a way that would be honoring and gratifying God and glorifying him at the same time not compromising truth.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, if you if you actually end up at that table full of sinners that Jesus was at, how am I engaging, not compromising personally, but being a light in such a way that people realize I'm not moving. Yeah. I'm asking you to come with me. You know, is your is your table have enough open seats that you're willing to invite some other people into that adventure? And I love this um, I love this text in Ephesians 5. I'm gonna read it real quick. It says, for this reason it says, awake, sleeper, and arise from the dead, Christ will shine on you. Because he's talking about all these people who are walking in patterns of darkness. Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men, but as wise, making the most of your time because the days are evil. What functionally, you should actually be paying attention to what you're doing day to day, and not just drifting like a person who's asleep. Do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. Don't get drunk on wine for that is dissipation. I love that word in the Greek. It's it's it's probably closer rendered uh mindlessness. You know, it's just wearing away death scroll, whatever it might be, speaking another with psalms, hymns, spiritual songs, what is he saying? Keep each other awake. You know, be paying attention to what's actually going on. Find out what pleases the Lord, not just the type of ministry or outcome you're obsessed with. And if you are going to live the calling that that Jonah had, that every prophet had, that Jesus ultimately perfectly fulfilled, it's a calling into the dark to actually see transformation happen and then stay long enough to walk with those people, to see those things go there, become, you know, you're in the world, but you're not of the world. And then be prepared to actually bring that transformation when God does something with it that might be different than what you think.
SPEAKER_00:Study through Jeremiah. Oh man.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:No, I don't want to.
SPEAKER_00:Never mind. I don't want to.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. No wife, yeah, no wine. You're gonna get beat up and tossed a lot. Jeez. But he cried a lot, too. Oh my gosh. Yeah, he was he cried a lot. That dude's limitation. Man, yeah, yeah. It was a whole whole nother world that he walked through, but all of us are benefiting from what he wrote and what he walked through, you know, thousands of years ago. And it's just I think I just think it's worth noting. When we talk about the book of Jonah, I think the goal, uh, if I was gonna preach through it, I'd probably say something like, you know, um, facing the monster, and the monster's Jonah, not the fish.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:The monster in this story is the man of God who ultimately is opposed to the things of God and himself wants to be God. And God takes him through the process of revealing to himself who he is and who Jonah is through that process. And I think for many Christians, that is terrifying.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And guess what? That's where, that's where growth happens, that's where life happens, and that's where God, that's where the miraculous breaks forth.
SPEAKER_00:We've done a disservice to Jonah with Sunday school, kids' Sunday school. Same same way with Samson.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:We, you know, we we see Jonah in this big cartoonish well, and and that's really all we remember as children, this big cartoonish well.
SPEAKER_01:He's the whale guy.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Or Samson, you know, the big strong man. And uh it's cartoonish, uh, but it's uh flannel graph. Yeah, it's a horrible existence in which both those two walked because they were being disobedient to God. And so I think that we need to remember those things when we study God's word and all of the, you know, one of the topics that you sent me was uh the weird things in scripture.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I almost picked that one. Uh, you know, all of the weird things in scripture have a purpose. Yep. And uh we need to acknowledge that even when we say, wow, God, did you really just kill everybody? Yeah. The answer is yes. Yes. Yes, he did. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And we gotta we gotta wrestle through those things and again get to know the God that we're serving. And maybe some of the things that were confusing to you become less confusing when you enter into the things that he's calling you to do, or else you're gonna have what Jonah had, which was the then the Lord sent a fish moment.
SPEAKER_00:And uh Yeah, so that's that was my that was my thing at the end of Jonah was don't get so far away from God that God's gotta send a big fish to get you.
SPEAKER_01:It's good. That's good, man. Yeah. I think um take those steps of obedience. I love, and I would say this is a great application for anybody listening to this podcast at the end here is if you feel bored or frustrated, go back to the thing God told you to do last and start taking it more seriously. Um there's something there for you.
SPEAKER_00:That's right.
SPEAKER_01:That's important, not just for where he's calling you, but what he's doing in you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And as a Christian, the whole every time Jesus does something with his disciples, he's taking them to the places that they don't want to go to produce in them what wouldn't happen if they didn't go to those places first. That's where transformation and hope happens. So man, just pumped to have you on today. Talk about this is my second time.
SPEAKER_00:Both times have been dose. Fantastic. Fantastic.
SPEAKER_01:I love it. You're a nerd. You love the word of God. I love the word of God.
SPEAKER_00:You've been called a lot of things, but uh nerd is not one of them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, you you got into the original language more than I did today.
SPEAKER_00:So I think uh guilt. I'm okay to be with being called a Bible nerd.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's fine. That's fine. Yeah, it's okay. Still be we say theologian, it makes us feel better. Theologian. Yeah, it's called it what it is. That's right. Well, let's uh let me pray for everybody to listen to the podcast, man. We'll call today, and maybe next time we have you on, we'll talk about those weird topics in the Bible. All right, let's do it. Father God, I thank you, uh, Lord, for everybody listening to the podcast today. I pray that you would bless them. I pray that you would help them to face whatever that you have called them to do. I pray that you would make us um, Lord, saints who would willingly walk into what you've called us to and would do it with a heart posture that is prepared for um our own transformation in that process. Lord, make us courageous with our obedience. Make us in the world, but not of the world, Lord. And I pray that you would prepare us for whatever it is that you want to do and what you want to accomplish, because we know at the end of the day, you're gonna accomplish what you want to accomplish, Lord. And I want to be with you in that, not opposed to you. We ask for your grace, your power, and presence to rest on us and uh walk with us, Lord. We pray in Jesus' name.
SPEAKER_03:Amen.
SPEAKER_01:Amen. Awesome. Y'all have a great week.
