King's Banner Podcast
Welcome to King's Banner Podcast. We got tired of the same ole answers when we started looking for help when it came to our walks with God. So together we go deeper than most would on topics that most people have heard or were taught but never fully understood. It is our way of simplifying concepts that we may have over complicated throughout our lives. Bringing theology and life experience into each episode. It is our hope and desire to help you in your Christian walk.
King's Banner Podcast
The Screwtape Letters Part One
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If you think spiritual warfare only shows up in dramatic moments, C.S. Lewis would disagree and so do we. This conversation starts with a big announcement: we’re planting a church in Tyler, Texas, and reintroducing the show as the King’s Banner Podcast. From there, we open The Screwtape Letters and let Lewis’ “letters from a demon” expose the everyday strategies that quietly anesthetize Christians.
We talk about how a culture addicted to trendiness and tribal jargon trains people to avoid true and false questions, and how that same pressure tempts churches to go vague on doctrine just to keep things comfortable. We also get painfully practical about relationships: how close family and friend dynamics can become a breeding ground for petty irritation, how “prayer requests” can turn into gossip, and how bitterness can wear religious language like a mask.
Then we push into identity and discipleship. Are you becoming a different person in each social circle? Are you stuck in a courtesy trap where nobody will say what they really believe? We also challenge emotionalism in Christian life: spiritual highs are not the same as repentance, and real worship often looks like obedience in a dry season when God feels absent.
If you want a sharper view of temptation, Christian growth, and what faithful action looks like, hit play, share this with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find it. What part of The Screwtape Letters feels uncomfortably familiar right now?
Welcome And King's Banner Launch
SPEAKER_01Hey everyone, welcome in. If you've been a longtime listener, you will probably know that we are starting a church here in here in Tyler, Texas. It's happening. Pastor Justin, way to go.
SPEAKER_00I do what I can.
SPEAKER_01And as such, uh, we are actually rebranding the Navigate Podcast. So for the very first time, I'd like to welcome you guys to the King's Banner Podcast. Yes.
SPEAKER_00King's Banner. It's awesome. Let's go. Get to know us. Actually, you kind of already do, but I mean we helped you navigate all the way to King's Banner. We did. Yep. We went from uh the upper room to navigating all the way to King's Banner. For those of you who have been here for the last four years. So what you're saying is taking you here.
SPEAKER_01The podcast was one destination, and then with long navigation to another destination.
SPEAKER_00That's exactly right. That's exactly right. We went from the table of our Lord to the kingdom of our Lord. You know? I like it. Alright, we're done.
SPEAKER_02We're done.
What The Screwtape Letters Teaches
SPEAKER_00So what are we talking about today, brother? We are talking about the screw tape letters.
SPEAKER_01I am pumped. I I'm pretty excited. So if you are unfamiliar with the screw tape letters, this is a book by C.S. Lewis, um, written in the style of an elder demon reaching out to his nephew demon about the man that he's tempting. Um and it's written as a series of letters talking about how to tempt pitfalls, victories. Um, and it's written in the voice of the demon. So you'll see our father, when they refer to our father, they're referring to their father, the devil.
SPEAKER_00When they say the father below.
SPEAKER_01Our father below, yep.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. And it's really a book, not about um just the working of evil, but it's more like how Satan would try to ruin your Christian life. How would a Satan, uh, how would Satan ruin a Christian's life in general, uh, not through dramatic evil, but through distractions and nonsense that maybe we walk through on a daily basis, but don't consider. Yeah. So it's it's about the insidious nature of spiritual warfare that as a Christian, maybe you think you're not incurring, but I think this would quickly reveal to you that you are. Oh, 100%. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, we uh we sometimes think of spiritual warfare as, you know, only affecting a a preacher or only impacting an Easter service and you know, big crowds and flashy things, but yeah. It can be as simple as what are the thoughts and motivations behind why you're reading a certain book or why you're walking to a certain place?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I love one of the quotes from the book where he says, Um, you don't have to make a man a murderer if playing cards will do the trick. The the goal is not to take somebody to some immediate grievous thing. The goal is to slowly get him to walk into a life that is devoid of what it's actually supposed to be in the long term. So uh fantastic book. How do you want to start? How do you want to jump in?
Jargon Culture And Losing Truth
SPEAKER_01So I I kind of took a few topics that I want to hit on that the Buck book touches on pretty pretty dramatically, but there's also some uh ancillary points too. So the one I want to start with um is actually, you know, the people we hang out with, the people we associate with, and the different ways that the enemy can kind of get involved in that, uh the different ways the enemy can use people that are no good to drag us down, and then the ways the enemy can use people that uh should be incredible good um to get under your skin. Okay, cool. So um I wanted to start off with uh you know a a piece that's in the very first chapter, the very first page, um about arguments and about how to talk with people, and and it touches a little bit on truth. Okay. So the quote in mind uh and again from the demon's voice. So it starts, your man, as in the human the demon is tempting. Yeah. Your man has been accustomed ever since he was a boy to having dozens of incompatible philosophies dancing around inside his head. He doesn't think of doctrines as primarily true or false, but as academic or practical, outworn or contemporary, yeah, conventional or ruthless. Jargon, not argument, is your best ally in keeping him from the church.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, so talking about that in the conversations we have with people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it's a wild, it's a wild thing, even thinking about what our culture has done from a media standpoint, um where it's not, and I think in that passage he even gets into it that we don't live in a world today where logic and argumentation takes people um to where it should go. Most people are at a place now where they're not looking for is this a concise argument that I should line my life up with? Does this seem like the most trendy or recent thing or feel the best for where we're going in the moment?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And uh, we live in a society that is driven by tribalism and trendiness and what seems like the best, what gives me the most emotional high in a particular circumstance. And it's uh it's dangerous, man. Christians are supposed to be in the world, but not of it, right? Yeah, we shouldn't be a product of what's going on. One of my other favorite quotes uh in the screw tape letters, it says that prosperity knits a man in the world. He feels that he is finding his place in it, while in reality it's finding his place in him. Um, I think as we're talking about this idea, the question is, you know what I mean, how are we engaging with what's going on around us, with it allowing it to get inside of us?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And he uses prosperity in this particular idea. But the idea is when you participate in a worldly system, uh, you think that you are uh un you know un uh unmoved by it or that it's not doing anything to you. But the reality is, is you are a product of the environment that you're in, whether it's uh feminism, you know what I mean, that is crept into different things and you just think it's normal, or whether it's uh the way that you handle business or whatever it might look like, the world around us is bleeding into everything else that we're doing, its system and its way of life, and eventually normalizing for you uh things that should not be normal to us as Christians.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, because like like the quote, it's not about whether it's true or false, right? It's whether it's practical or academic. And uh I want to dig further into that and talk about um how the church can handle this in insofar as there are a lot of good churches that will recognize the problem here and stick to the true or false. Um and in a very real sense, the quote is correct in that people who are stuck outside of truth and and false um get very uncomfortable with that and won't engage with the church. But the flip side of that is you've got churches that are uh digging into that argument. It's like, all right, we don't care about truth necessarily. We want to care about, you know, people and well, what's an academic or practical thing?
Churches Need Clear Doctrine
SPEAKER_00Humanitarianism almost. You know what's funny is uh the the single greatest um indicator right now for a church that is going to thrive versus not, is are you willing to make bold stands on things that we're supposed to? Yeah. Uh and this actually is true for like progressive nonsense churches and for like godly churches. Are you out front about what you believe? Are you straightforward? Yeah. Or are you milk toast and still trying to just make everybody happy? Yeah. Are you this wishy-washy in the middle nonsense where we don't bring up difficult conversations or talk about difficult things because we're we're afraid of you know hurting somebody's feelings? You know, um, we should recognize that things are not gray. There is black and there is white, and I think our world is kind of sick of the gray and wants real answers. And whether they're finding that in the worldview of uh leftist, you know, Rousseauian or Hobbesian nonsense, um, or they're finding it in Jesus Christ, they're they're going to land somewhere with it. Don't be the wishy-washy nonsense person in the middle who's denying truth or doesn't want to deal with argumentation. He says elsewhere in the book that um uh we don't want Christians doing science or digging into um, you know, philosophy. God forbid they start to think about the reality of abstract thought or the things that they don't know or things that are in the heavens or above them, because we don't want them to pay attention to an entire world that exists that maybe they're unfamiliar with that sheds too much light on us, that puts too much light on bigger topics that we don't want them, you know, getting involved in, which is why it's so easy for people to just say a statement now that the world has deemed is a good thing to say. God is love. What does that mean? Yeah, what is that like what do you mean by that? Well, like, because well, God is love, bro. Yeah, exactly. It's it's just an axiom. Well, depending on who God is, and it and depending on what love is, you could land in a billion different places there. And so many people want to take statements like that, slap it onto a piece of paper, and now I can justify this politician or this particular horrible sin because we're just saying that this is the case. Um, thought, argumentation, getting into stuff is important. And oftentimes our friend groups are incredibly shallow, and uh, we become an ideologue with every other person that we're with, and we begin to become an avatar that's a representation of a bunch of beliefs without any actual roots or thinking about where they're coming from in the first place. Yeah. And so, like being deeply rooted in scripture and knowing why you believe what you believe, recognizing that truth actually requires a standard, that moral truth, moral truth requires a moral law giver, and that moral law implies that there is a God above us in general that we're supposed to be learning from and growing from and walking things out with are incredibly in important things. So when someone, when it says, Blessed is the man who is not walking the counsel of the wicked, nor stand in the way of sinners, nor sit in the seat of scoffers, but his delight is in the law of the Lord. It's a great reminder. Be very careful who you hang out with, where you spend your time, that what you spend your time talking about. Um, I love it like standing in the way of sinners. Okay. Are you standing where they would stand, sitting in the seat of scoffers? Are you are you in that mindset where you love to scoff at things, you don't even know you know what those things are happening? There's different modes we can find ourselves in in social circles, and all of them are repugnant to God if our hearts and minds aren't first dedicated and focused on what He's calling us to do. Yeah. So um it's a particularly insidious aspect of uh life because we're born into it. Yeah. You don't even realize how much you believe that is wrong. You know what I mean? Until you're staring into the Bible long enough and staring at yourself long enough to understand what you've actually become or how much you've absorbed that is absolutely godless and and not helpful. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, it's it's funny digging back into what you said about even churches, regardless of where they stand on that, will oftentimes obfuscate what their stances are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, in my just a fun anecdote, in my line of work, um, I have the opportunity to work with a lot of churches across the country. Um and uh I work remotely, so I obviously don't visit these churches, so I go to their websites a lot. Um, and one of the fun things I like to do is is alright, I'm helping this church. I'm just curious about your doctrine. I want to know what kind of what kind of church I'm I'm helping here. Yeah. Uh and so I'll go to their doctrines pages, I'll go to their about us pages because I want to see how specific they get about the different doctrines they believe. And it is shocking to me how vague so many of these churches are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's like, okay, I'm pretty sure based on the location and the general tone of the church that you have a very strong opinion on, let's say, marriage.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It is shocking to me how that is not represented on the page at all.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Like, where's it at? Yeah. Well, we don't want to scare anyone off. Yeah. We don't want to, you know, light attracts bugs. Yes. Right? And saying things is good. It it it produces light. People love the light. It also attracts bugs. And I think a lot of people are scared of the bugs that they're going to get uh when they do something well. We had a uh church across the street from us at one point who had like a uh lesbian pastor, say that loosely, very loosely. Um anyways, and uh, you know, it was messy, and I guess they'd been telling everybody that the church across the street, they're you know, horrible, hateful people, blah de blah, whatever. Well, one day we had one of the people actually come over and check out our church and asked um our thoughts on um marriage and our thoughts on women as pastors and some of these different things. And we answered biblically, hey, this is what we believe, this is why we believe it. She was like, Am I still allowed to be here? Yeah, yeah, we'd love for you to sit, stay, listen, get into the word with us, get after it. Yeah. And she said something along the lines of, um, even though I don't line up with your doctrine and I probably would not attend this church, I can't believe how friendly and inviting you guys were uh in the process of telling me that you disagreed with me. Thank you for that.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00I remember thinking it's awesome when people actually cross lines and realize that holding your ground uh doesn't necessarily mean um destroying somebody in the process. Uh sometimes holding your ground is inviting somebody into something real, as opposed to creating an illusory, you know, front room that people step into that doesn't actually exist because it doesn't represent anything.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, to have uh stood for something means you're gonna have enemies. And if you have no enemies, you probably don't stand for anything. And I think a lot of people are are so lost in their own identity that they would rather stand for nothing because they're terrified of what it means for standing for something because they don't they don't know who they are.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
unknownYeah.
Prayer That Becomes Gossip
SPEAKER_01So digging a little bit further, okay. Um going in on the topic of relationship with people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um I wanted to take us to a quote from chapter three that it gets kind of into um interpersonal relationships with people who you're close to, family or um other believers or or at least people that you should have good relationships with.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um and so this is is talking about uh the the subject of the book, the man who is the subject of the book in relation to his mother. Um says it is no doubt impossible to prevent his praying for his mother, but we have means of rendering the prayers innocuous. Make sure that they are always very spiritual, that he is always concerned with the state of her soul and never with her rheumatism. Two advantages will follow. In the first place, his attention will be kept on what he regards as her sins, by which, with a little guidance from you, he can be induced to mean any of her actions which are inconvenient or irritating to himself. Thus you can keep rubbing the wounds of the day a little sore, but even while he is on his knees, the operation is not at all difficult, and you will find it very entertaining.
SPEAKER_00He's so intuitive, man. I love it. So tell me tell me why this stands out to you.
SPEAKER_01It stands out to me because uh family, especially a good family, are oftentimes some of the easiest people to get really irritated with.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um and if you're not careful, um you can find yourself doing exactly that where it's like not or conflating those things which are not your favorite things with something that they're doing wrong. Sure. So like my wife and I load the dishwasher very different ways. Yeah, yeah. It is not a sin how she would load the dishwasher. And it's not a sin how I load the dishwasher. If you're listening. Oh, she will be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think um in this particular text, he's even he or this uh this part of the book, he's really talking about the reality of how you can distract yourself with frustrations and still think you're doing something pious. And obviously the representation of the family in this is is a perfect setting because this is where we tend to be the most petty, right? So with people that we're with, the people that we're around, um, we can really believe we're being spiritual and gracious by praying for this person. But I've heard it a million times. Um we invite people up to the front for prayer over the difficulties that they have going on or things that they're struggling with, or there's a prayer meeting where people are coming in and Lord, change his heart. He's an absolute mess, God, and he's been doing this and he's been doing that. And I can't, and I'm like, what you're doing right now is gossip via prayer and focusing on letting people know all the frustrations that you have with this person. We're not doing anything of value at this moment, and you're trying to paint it the color of prayer. Like that is what is happening. You can either grow grass today that is healthy and start that process, or you can just spray paint your grass green. And right now you're spray painting the grass. Like that is what you're doing. And so when you think about relationships with family, um, prayer for family, what that looks like. Oftentimes, yeah, we we can get so focused on um inconveniences and frustrations that it can allow us to think more highly of ourselves than we should. And then it gets mixed in with our spiritual life where we begin to talk about, you know, um, how gracious and kind you are for handling this particular difficulty, you know what I mean, so well. And going before the father and talking about it, but actually walking away feeling more justified in your anger and frustration over somebody's um foibles than even the sins that they're having themselves. Trying to think elsewhere in the book, he says, um, if you find um that your subject, you know, has become incredibly humble. Oh no, I have the quote. I have the exact quote here. He says something like, Um, have you tried asking him if he's thought about how humble he is? Yeah. You know it's uh it's a great way to, you know, to get him to process and think about, you know, start to start to find himself uh in hot water because now that he notices this, now he'll think about how everybody isn't as humble or how great he is for being as humble as he is, right?
SPEAKER_01Here's the exact quote because the the language behind it is just perfect. Your patient has become humble. Have you drawn his attention to this fact? That's so great.
SPEAKER_00It's so good. Yeah, but that's that's it. So uh I would say um this falls to me less in the relationship aspect of things, although I get your connection to family there. This to me falls more in the the category of um masking your bitterness and frustration with spirituality. And we all know how quickly prayer requests become gossip.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We all know how quickly like caring for somebody, and that's why I'm sharing is actually slander. Yeah. You know what I mean? And and again, um, the way that we process and think about these things is incredibly important. And how uh how quickly can we be influenced to think we're doing a godly thing when in reality we're doing something very ungodly and we like when we can feel pious about it. Um we gotta watch out for that in our lives, in our relationships, in our marriages. So often the most spiritual person in a relationship is the most bitter, most frustrated, and is creating the most problems, but also think they're the most godly because they're the best at throwing scriptures on top of it or stapling religious language to the front of it so that it seems to everyone else like, man, they really know their Bible and they're really put together in this area, when in fact you're just fantastic at religious language to uh to mask your own uh problems in the process.
SPEAKER_01It's it reminds me of something you've said recently uh a few times is sometimes wolves don't know their wolves.
SPEAKER_00Oh man. Or or know their wolves deep down, but um sincerely believe they can fool everybody else, right? But yeah, yeah. Uh sometimes wolves don't know their wolves because they think they're doing the pious right thing to do. And um man, we'll die on that hill because they really believe that it's they're they're doing a service to the church. You know, they're doing somebody's gotta fight for this. And it's like, dude, um priorities, where's your heart? What are you fighting for? Why is this a thing? Uh who else's opinion who else holds the same opinion? Or is it only the people that you fought so ardently that they would be persuaded of your opinion? You know? But yeah. The relationship piece is hard, bro. Um, and I would just encourage people the the opposite of this is to avoid all relationships in general and to not be around people or keep it superficial all the time. I don't think we should be afraid of people's messes, and I don't think you should be afraid of your own mess either. I think the goal is humility and honesty, and when we can get things out on the table and measure it against scripture and work together, not at beating each other to death with the Bible, but helping, encouraging each other through that, a lot of work can get done. But so much of uh so much of this book that he gets into is ways that we fake or mask our own inabilities by focusing on everyone else's problems. And as long as we're focusing on on everybody else's problems, it keeps our mind off our own, yeah, and we can end up in some serious trouble.
Inner Circles And Courtesy Traps
SPEAKER_01So you know, talking about faking it, um, it's a it's a great segue to the to the quote and and kind of context I want to go to next. So um one of the things Lewis talks about in a few of his books is the um the British intellectual class. Yeah. Like these these intellectual people who they're fun to be around that's part of the in club, and they invite you in, but there's always oh the higher secrets, and you'll get there. Inner circles. The inner circles, the inner inner circles, the inner, inner, inner just cut your head off craziness. So um but talking about that in context, this quote particularly stood out to me. Um because we can and I'll get to the quote in a second, but we can often find ourselves in friend groups or or groups of people that make us feel entertained or feel good as part of an inner circle, um, but not because it's there's anything wholesome going on.
SPEAKER_00Um just the feeling of belonging.
SPEAKER_01Exactly, that feeling of belonging. Yeah. Um and and these groups tend to um to have that very like negative reaction to faith and to like hey, that you know, that might not be a good thing, what we're talking about. What? Yeah, I thought you were uh I thought you were one of us, sort of.
SPEAKER_00Anything that would seem uncouth.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And so the quote the quote that kind of drives this home because what do we do in those circumstances if we shut up? Yeah uh or at least we're prone to. And so the quote is all mortals tend to turn into the thing they are pretending to be. Um this is elementary. The real question is how to prepare for the enemy's counterattack.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so you've got oftentimes in a Christian world, uh, or or a from a Christian worldview, it's really easy to take the line of well, I'm you know, I'm witnessing to them just by being there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I want to talk about are you really? Yeah. What's actually happening in this scenario? Yeah. Yeah. When I think about this, and you you brought it up, um, but I think it's um I think it's Psalm 115 where it talks about they become like the idols that they worship. They're uh, you know, deaf, they're dumb, they can't do anything, they become um carved out of stone themselves. You know what I mean? And eventually they don't know who they are because they don't have actually have any roots with what they're doing. They just know exactly what to say in the right moments or how to fit in with this particular group. And given any social dynamic has an aspect where you're trying to create connection with people and you're trying to um find middle ground that everybody stands on. The problem is if it doesn't have any convictions other than don't rock the boat. Well, what I found myself in is actually a courtesy trap where we're all just trying to get along and we're all just trying to make it work, and it feels good when I get affirmation for feeling like I'm a part of the group, but actually it's a cult. Yeah, you know, I'm yeah, I'm I'm not doing what I should be doing. I but man, it feels really good to belong, you know.
SPEAKER_01So there's some good context there for what a courtesy trap is.
SPEAKER_00But for those who aren't familiar with the term, go ahead and expand on the like courtesy trap is what happens when uh people are too good natured to make uh healthy decisions in the moment. And so they find themselves in some turbid state where they continue on in nonsense when they should be moving on in progress. Uh this can happen in conversations, it can also happen at a four-way stop. Yeah. When four people show up together and uh everybody's waving the other person on and nobody's moving forward because everybody is trying to be polite. The same kind of mentality happens in grocery stores, it happens in all kinds of situations where everybody is trying to be good natured and seen in a particular way. So so it actually slows down everything that should be happening. And it happens in larger social circles and it happens in churches. I'm just trying to be courteous, I'm just trying to be gracious, I just don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. I want us all to get along. And so to do that, I'm actually gonna bastardize truth. Yeah. I'm going to, I'm going to punt on talking about repentance. I'm not going to bring up hell. And now we're all stuck in a courtesy trap because now none of us are able to bring those things up. Nothing offensive, nothing difficult, nothing frustrating, nothing antagonizing, lest we sacrifice, you know, unity for something awful like truth. Yeah. You know.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I know you've been in those conversations that go on far too long with those people that are talking about nothing for 45 minutes. Uh, because we get caught in the courtesy trap of the world has told us for years and years and years. Don't interrupt people.
SPEAKER_00And I have to be careful because I'm the guy that'll probably talk over people and I need to interrupt uh less. I also stack questions a lot. I gotta, I gotta work on that too. But yeah, I'm I just think the the greater difficulty, the thing to consider um is in social situations, do you know who you are? Or are you being made into the image of the people that are around you because you have a desire to connect? And it would be better to not connect with people and maintain who you are than to lose who you are in the process of trying to connect with other people. The good questions to ask is am I influencing them or are they influencing me? Um, is the relationship like missional? Am I actually trying to um persuade people about what the truth is? Or am I being assimilated slowly and um I'm enjoying it too much to stop? Or is my presence endorsing sin or confronting sin? Yeah. Um ask yourself those questions with some of the friendships that you have. Uh, if you are tethering yourself to people who are running a different direction, you're in trouble. And that text we love to quote, I think it's uh 2 Corinthians chapter 6, where he talks about not being unequally yoked. That text is not talking about marriage. It's actually talking about friendship. Now, it's doubly true about marriage, yes, but the first thing that he's trying to communicate is hey, are you syncing up and linking with people who are actually going the wrong direction? And then wondering why you're having such a difficult time working through things. You know, so when we read the the you know the verse in Matthew 11, 28, come to me, all who are weary and heavy laden, take my yoke upon you and I will give you rest. Well, taking Christ's yoke upon you means partnering with him and what he is trying to do, as opposed to being yoked with somebody else who is taking you the direction that they want to go. Which social circle do you want to be involved in? Yeah. Who do you who do you want to yoke with? Who do you actually want to walk with? Because they are taking you somewhere. Either you are taking them where Christ has called you to go, along with Christ, or you are being drug a different direction that you don't want to go to. What's happening in your life? What are you enjoying more? Seeing somebody come this direction, or uh enjoying the blissful in-between, that turbid state of the courtesy trap, which helps me feel vindicated and validated because we like each other without actually making any progress with things that matter. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01It it reminds me a little bit of a of an analogy I I found to be particularly useful is you know, we are called to walk towards Christ. Uh, if you're walking alongside someone else in that and they stop or they turn around, um You keep walking. You keep walking. And there's there's a certain argument from compassion of like, no, you know, stop with them, like help them up, you know, walk back with them to try and get them to ultimately what you're doing is being disobedient.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um and yeah, read the Pilgrim's Progress. How many friends does Pilgrim lose along the way? Um, he does not go back for them. No, that is not his goal. He's not the savior, he's not God, he's not the Holy Spirit. He's got to continue doing what God has called him to do. Yeah. And if helping somebody means not doing what God has called you to do, now you're in sin, and now your testimony's jacked up, and you're helping that person even less than you were before. Yeah. So good word, brother.
Living Two Parallel Lives
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, and it kind of building on that comes another quote where once you've realized, or if you begin to realize problems with certain of these certain friend groups or certain people, yeah. Um one of the other ways the enemy can attack you by that is to is to make them just irresistible when you're with them. So I want to read um So this is talking about his friend group that the intellectuals that are dragging him away from the faith. And as sooner or later, however, the real nature of his new friends must become clear to him. And then your tactics must depend on the patient's intelligence. If he is a big enough fool, you can get him to realize the character of the friends only when they are absent. Their presence can be made to swap sweep away any and all criticism. If this succeeds, he can be induced to live, as I have known many humans live, for quite long periods, two parallel lives. He will not only appear to be, but actually be a different man in each of these circles he frequents.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah. You'll turn into whatever suits the moment. You'll become whatever uh whatever group that you're a part of and not actually having an identity of your own. Um this is real. Like, and I've seen this in so many people's lives where they don't know how to act around uh two different friends that they have because those two different friends are part of two different circles. And if those two friends ever met each other, I'm actually just gonna have to be really quiet and act like, oh, something's a little off, or I'm I'm I'm feeling a little sick today, or I have a headache, or something like that. But I've I've watched it happen with people before, and all you need to realize is this person doesn't know who they are. No, they have no idea. They're uh they know that they're false, whatever group that they're a part of in the moment. And um, man, uh this is also the guy who um uh usually talks bad about people behind their back and then talks bad about you when you're behind their back. It's it's just uh you're a you're a byproduct of the group that you're in. And you see this all over the internet too, you know, on Reddit pages, on comments. It's I am just spitting out the same four lines that everybody else says on this particular topic, no depth, you know, shadow shallow as a puddle, but feeling validated because my group will pat me on the bat uh back regardless of how you know silly and insipid that comment actually was. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, and I feel like the other thing that this particular piece of of um wisdom can apply to is um relationships between a man and a woman who are dating. Okay. Have you I mean, I have known those people who they when you talk to them away from their somebody's boyfriend, girlfriend, yeah, they're they're like, wow, you you they tell you these things, and you're like, this guy is a bad dude. He is bad to you, he is verbally abusive, he's talking trash. I know, I know he is. I know, I you know, I I I real I will break up with him, or yeah, I'm I'm not gonna go back to him this time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
Emotional Highs And Dry Seasons
SPEAKER_01And then you know, the next day it's like, oh, we made up, you know, he we talked, and he you just being with him, things were so much clearer. And it's like you are falling into the lie of the presence of the person overriding your knowledge of who that person is.
SPEAKER_00This uh this type of mentality, man, shows up in um hyper-emotional churches as well. I found that a lot of people have courage to do the right thing when they have an emotional high. Uh I have an emotional high. My relationship with God is so good right now. I'm walking in obedience. I'm gonna do the right thing, I'm gonna throw that thing away. I'm gonna quit that particular habit that I have. Oh my gosh, I was so touched by the presence of God today. And then that emotional high goes away and they drop right back into all the same sin patterns that they were just saying that they finally broke free from. And it's like, bro, you you are you're not chasing God. You're chasing an emotional high that you're getting from this environment. Yeah. And and look, as Christians, there's dry seasons where you're not gonna feel all the feels all the time in your relationship with God. And that doesn't mean you're not growing. Uh ultimately, what it means is God is teaching you how to not be uh emotionally manipulated by the devil. Because if Satan can get you to um to be the persons whose actions are always a response to emotionalism, then you are going to be just as vulnerable to the darkness as you are encouraged by the light. You have to be able to move past that at some point. And so these people who in these relationships are the emotional highs are driving all the good decisions and all the bad decisions, just know that that person's God is their emotions, not truth, not reality. And that's uh that's a dangerous place to be and is often simulated by social environments. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So uh I actually have one of my favorite quotes that I wrote down from this book.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh is exactly on this point, and it's the flip side to that. Um, and so wormwood is the name of the the demon here. So uh it says Uncle Screw tape. And Uncle Scle Screw tape. Do not be deceived, Wormwood. Our course is never more in danger than when a human no longer desiring, but still intending to do our enemy, that is God's will, looks around upon the universe from which every trace of God seems to have vanished and asks why he has been forsaken and still obeys.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it's exactly the flip side of what you're talking about is when you get to that moment, when you get to the end of yourself, um, and actually I I was talking to my wife about this very quote, and she said, That's Christ. Yeah um My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Yeah, and yet still obeys to the point of death on a cross. It it does something to you if you can recognize that there is true power in obedience, yeah, even when there's no reason, rhyme, or need to quote unquote to do so.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, I think um everybody I know who is following Christ for real, like really doing it, can expect serious deserts. You know? Yes. Like you're going to find yourself like Christ in the desert, no water, no food, and Satan's gonna come along and be like, you know, it'd be great, some bread. You know, and and he asks him the question always if you're the son of God, turn these stones into bread. If you're the son of God, you know, cast yourself off to like the the question always has to do with identity at the same time that it's attached to um the appetites that we have. You know, and I think when you when you realize that worship that means the most to God is not when everything is going well for you and all the, you know, uh everything is put together and feeling great, and uh you're just in a great moment in your life, but actually is it is a byproduct of you worshiping out of the um out of the emptiness, out of the difficulty, uh, you start to understand what God truly values. This is uh Habakkuk chapter three. I think this is a good one. Though the fig tree should not blossom and there be no fruit on the vines, though the yield of the olive should fail and the fields produce no food, though the flock should be cut off from the fold and there be no cattle in the stalls, yet I will exalt in the Lord. I will rejoice in the God of my salvation, the Lord God is my strength, and he has made my feet like the hind's feet. He makes me walk on high places. I I think um we are never closer to Christ than when we are walking in a place where um that valley of the shadow of death, if you want to think about it that way, or those immense difficult moments where I don't feel his presence. I don't feel uh in a place of power at this point, I don't feel like everything is put together. And we think about that verse, right? You know, my power is perfected in your weakness. But man, reading that text, if you take it seriously, I mean, he's like in in trials, in discouragement, and frustration, and and feeling, you know, he talks about being distressed to the point of death. He's not talking about like, oh, it was hard paying rent this month. Yeah, there's gonna be weeks like that. There's gonna be weeks where people lose their kids. There's gonna be weeks where horrible, incredibly difficult things happen. And in those moments, a worship service is gonna break out.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Either you are going to worship the Lord and trust him and walk in obedience, and that doesn't mean amazing feelings. That means radical conviction, or you're going to walk a different direction and you're gonna try to turn stones into bread and you're gonna go a different direction that you were never supposed to go and worship something else entirely. Our greatest acts of worship are in the times of difficulty and frustration where we identify with Christ, that we would know him in his suffering and in his difficulty, and in that draw near to him, as opposed to running the opposite way. So I love that. And I think it's incredibly important. This reminder that um darkness is never more terrified when it's taken everything from you and still can't get you to cave. That's a that's an important reminder. Yeah, really good quote.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh that one was definitely one of the highlight moments of of going through this again.
The Gentle Slope And Real Action
SPEAKER_00So it's such a great book, man. I I think um I think the question that I would want people to consider today as we're as we're talking through this is like if if there was a letter being written right now for you, what would be in there? You know, what are the things that are frustrating you right now? What are the things that are uh keeping you dry right now? Um I mean, if you read the whole book of the screw tape letters, what you'll end up seeing, I think through most of it, is the devil wants to keep you busy, keep you entertained, and keep you uh comfortable. You know, all these things keep you from holiness and keep you from going where you're actually supposed to be going. Um let me see if I can find one of my favorite quotes in here. Indeed, the safest road to hell is the gradual one, the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without millstones or without milestones, without signposts, your affectionate uncle screw tape. Um page 61. Yeah, I just think that that reminder, like where in your life today are you so set up? You know what I mean? Are you comfortable? Are you sliding right into things and it seems to be going incredibly well? Where in there is their temptation? Where in there is have I stopped growing or have I started to become the wood or the stone of the idol that I'm serving, rather than actually pursuing God and walking in obedience to him? Yeah. And um, I think if you ask the question, what would what would Uncle Screw Tate be writing to Wormwood in my life today? It might it might reveal some things for you and help you think seriously about it. And I I do recommend um I used to recommend a chapter of this a night to people. I would say read it in the morning. You might be more aware of what's going on at the beginning of the day and have an opportunity to stop it, then just notice that that's what happened to you at the end of the day after preempt it versus versus yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01It's funny because that quote you just you just read comes directly after the quote you you m mentioned earlier. It says, Murder is no better than cards if cards can do the trick.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Like that that road to hell is paved gradually.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. So there's another quote I love in here. Can I bring it up? Yes, please. Uh he says, the more often he feels without acting, the less he will be uh the less he will be able ever to act. And in the long run, the less he will be able to feel. Um when we talk about checking this stuff, checking your heart, analyzing, paying attention to it, what I do not mean is reflect a lot and then do nothing about it. Yeah. Big feelings. Is not the same as repentance. Big feelings is not the same as action. It's not the same as doing anything. And I feel like in our world today, where we watch reels more than we read scripture, we don't need more adrenaline. We need, we need more heart. We don't need more people like, oh, I just, oh, I feel so good about that. Or man, that really spoke to me. I don't need it to speak to you. I need it to change you. I don't need it to like help you feel a certain way. I need it to help you think in a logical way so that your your actual actions would line up with it. And when you get addicted to feeling and and thinking that that's the same as doing, you offend you eventually will find yourself in a place where you don't feel anymore, and you certainly don't do anything. Yeah. Because it actually doesn't change anything. It's just speaking into the void and it gets less and less and less powerful in your life. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I'd like to build on that with a another quote here that I I highlighted is that it's talking about after having a spiritual encounter or or a spiritual high. And it says, As long as he does not convert it into action, it does not matter how much he thinks about this new repentance. Let the little brute wallow in it. Let him, if he has any bent that way, write a book about it. That is often an excellent way of sterilizing the seeds which the enemy plants in a human soul. Let him do anything but act. No amount of piety in his imagination and affections will harm us if we can keep it out of his will. Man.
SPEAKER_00That's so good.
SPEAKER_01The hidden irony there is C.S. Lewis talking about letting him write a book about it rather than going to action, which is a fun little Easter egg to me.
Wake Up And Fight Back
SPEAKER_00But it's just like You're reading the man's soul at the same time. You're reading his book, right? Yeah. Yeah. Man, um one other question for people to ask up the same line of thinking, I guess, would be what habits in your life today would Uncle Screw Tate be proud of? What are the what are the little things that are making inroads that uh, if you're being honest, are probably the work of something else nefarious going on? And um, man, there's so much more I want to talk about. So many quotes about distractions and different things in here, but um, Satan is not inactive in your life, Christian. And I don't mean the Satan specifically, I mean the schemes of the devil, the one who prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. He's not unbusy. And if you think you're so small and insignificant that Satan doesn't have time for you, I got a word for you. As a Christian, you are a legitimate threat to the darkness everywhere you go. He is more concerned about you than any other average person that is already on the road to hell, already distracted, already going a different direction. You matter, and if he can keep you anesthetized, that would be what he would do because he cannot take you from heaven, but he can silence you here on earth. And I would just encourage you, wake up if you've been sleepy. Get out of the hard-heartedness or the same routines that you've been walking in for a long time and piss off Uncle Screwtape. Yeah. Do some things that matter. Start praying seriously, not the same religious, ongoing mumbo jumbo you learned when you were 10. Start talking to God, really. Start reading scripture with fresh eyes, new eyes. Start acting on the things that you're actually doing. Get in relationships with other people that are solid, that are walking the same way. Leave some of the old ones behind and don't critique each other to death. Critique yourself to death in the process of pursuing Jesus and becoming what he's called you to be. If you can do those things, you will ruin the enemy's plans thoroughly. Do that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And to kind of capstone that a little bit, you matter so much that the angels in heaven cherish and celebrate when you came to faith more so than when 99 others didn't need to. Yeah. Make their worship, make their celebration worthwhile by taking the action that you need to. Yeah.
Closing Prayer And Farewell
SPEAKER_00Amen. So right on, guys. Have an amazing week. And uh let me pray for you real quick. God, pray for anyone that's struggling with uh serious um demonic attack today, Lord. I pray for anybody that's been asleep in their faith. I pray for anybody who's been faking it in different social circles. I pray for anyone, Lord, who has been um masking their own sin problems with religiosity. Free them today. Expose the work of the enemy and do a fresh work in their life. I pray in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Right on. Have a great week, everybody.
