Jonah Beyond The Fish

Everybody knows the whale story. Almost nobody wrestles with the real offense of Jonah: God’s mercy lands on the people Jonah cannot stand, and it exposes how quickly religious comfort can turn into spiritual blindness. We sit down and talk through why Jonah is “incredibly well known, almost never understood,” and why that matters for Christians who want more than nursery-room faith. 

We dig into the historicity of Jonah and why Jesus calls his own death and resurrection “the sign of Jonah.” That takes us into the language of Sheol, the three days in the deep, and the bigger gospel-shaped point: Jonah isn’t the hero, he’s the runner, and the story keeps forcing him to face the God he’s trying to avoid. Along the way we look at the irony of pagans who fear God while the prophet sleeps, and how that still shows up in the church when we want grace for ourselves but judgment for our enemies. 

From there, we push into the practical punch of the book: divine sovereignty and human choice, evangelism that treats people as people, and the call to “invade darkness” the way Christ does in the incarnation. Jonah becomes a mirror that asks whether our Christianity is a safe identity or a mission that moves us, even when it costs us comfort. 

If this challenged you, subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find it. What’s one place you know you’ve been running, and what would obedience look like this week?

Transcript

Welcome And Why Jonah Now

SPEAKER_01 0:04

All right, what's up everybody? Welcome back to King's Banner Podcast. Plumped to get after it today. I got uh my brother in Christ, fellow nerd, martial arts uh guru. Well, guru might be wrong. No, what would you say? Aficionado? What what probably none of that? I mean, both of us should just consistent. It would be maybe bad. It would be nice to not be a casual someday, but doing something, you know, staying disciplined, getting after it. Doing hard stuff. We done a couple of podcasts together, man, and I just enjoy it. For those of you that don't know, uh Mike and I can talk for hours on end. So I felt like uh Casey just had a baby, the right thing to do was to have my brother in and get after it. And I want to talk a little bit about uh the book of Jonah, because we're about to kick it off at King's Banner as a church and like talk through it. What do you think about when do you think about the book of Jonah?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Uh I mean, I like it. No, um decent. I think it's a super uh I don't want to say underrated. I think when you talk to Christians about Old Testament, all that stuff, I don't think it's typically people's top ten books, right? Like we have to pick our favorite. I think it's glazed over. I think uh we go back to our little Sunday school songs, the Who Did Swallow Jonah song. Yeah. And uh uh but I think there's a lot of relevance in it for us today. Yeah. In like a multitude of areas. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

I I when I think about this book, I'm like, it's incredibly well known, uh almost never understood. That's what I mean. Everybody is like, it's about a guy getting swallowed by a fish, and I think there's a total of two verses in the entire book that actually have to do with him being swallowed by the fish. So we have four chapters of actual content, and everybody remembers the one part of this particular book, and that kind of cracks me up. It's weird too because I feel like this story, like the Noah's Ark theme, ends up in um in like nursery rooms. You know what I mean? Like the two the two things that tend to be all over everybody's wall is like uh the ark and all the animals and or like Jonah and some whale, and we don't know if it was a whale or not. When it cracks me up, it's like two stories about judgment where either God is destroying the entire world or punishing somebody for their rebellion.

The Most Misunderstood Bible Story

SPEAKER_01 2:30

We're like, let's put those in our children's rooms, you know?

SPEAKER_00 2:32

I don't yeah, no, I I think so. I yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

No, yeah. Oh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

No, just thinking about it, I think there's super deep theology in it, especially when you connect it back with the New Testament or the we connect it to the New Testament, yeah. Looking forward at Christ. And I think there's a lot there. Like it's like to your point, like do you think it's a true story? Oh, yeah, I think it's absolutely true. Yeah, um, I think all the modern day stories. Yeah, because you know how dare you. Yeah, people have like they've created their own like retarded theologies out of it. Oh, it's uh you know, I I I don't think he was really dead. He, you know, like almost like this Pinocchio-esque. They're in there playing cards.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Okay, so this is like a big but you're asking if it was real. I'm going to say, Yeah, let's go there. Let's go there. Okay, so chapter two of the book of Jonah, it says he descends down to the depths of Sheol. And for a lot of people, they're like, this is some metaphorical aspect. Um, but you're saying, no, I think he actually died. Sheol is the place of the dead. Oh, yeah, I think he died. That's where I was. I've got to die there.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yeah, I think looking uh moving forward into the New Testament, when um Can I go there real quick? Let's do it. Let's go. Yeah, yeah, let's go.

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Yeah. Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to him, Teacher, we want to see a sign from you. But he answered and said to them, An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign, and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet. For just as Jonah was uh three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, sea monster, just so we're clear. The whatever cute whale you have on the fabric on your child's stuff, okay? Well, you're better off putting a Leviathan. All right, anyways, sea monster. So will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth? And I want to emphasize the next part in a second, but okay, so he's making the point that just like I'm literally going to be dead, yeah, Jonah literally died. Like that's your point, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Right. So I I've gotten into some pretty heated arguments over this text, and you'll have people argue, no, the sign that he's gonna give um is that he is gonna save a Gentile people, right? Like, and I would say, okay, sure, but I don't think that's that's what Jesus is talking about. I'm I think he's directly referring to the resurrection, right? Yeah, he's talking about Jonah died and was spit up and God raised him from the dead, yeah, and so too Christ will die, yeah, and the father will raise the yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Jonah, Jonah's in the place of the dead for three days. Right. Jesus is in the place of the dead for three days, and in the same way that he's in the belly of the fish or the sea monster, which is just a way cooler interpretation. Okay, um, Jonah's gonna be there too. I do, I think he died. I think God brought him back to life. Uh I have no problem landing there. And I think some of it is just our naturalistic approach to scripture, where we want to come up with uh naturalistic explanations instead of miracles. Yeah. We don't want to say Jesus did a miracle and brought this guy back to life. It is more acceptable in our day and age to come up with some crazy way that God kept somebody alive in a fish's belly for three days than to say God just brought him back to life, which kind of cracks me up. Like, and I don't care. Either way, if somebody wants to say, no, no, no, God sustained him and this happened, that's fine too. But um, it's no less plausible.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

You know what I mean? And if the God that spoke the universe into existence can create and do what he wants, yeah, I think he's allowed to um monkey with the the nature of things in general uh whenever he wants, if he's the one that set it into, you know, um action in the first place. But I wanted to bring this up too, because a lot of people think that this is a fable or like a um, you know, a poet like epic poetry or something. And it says in 41 in Matthew 12, the men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here. He's literally saying these people from Nineveh at that time will condemn this generation for their unbelief at the final coming. So there is no mythological group of people that come into existence at the end. Either they existed and they're literally there, or they're not there at the end and didn't exist. He's saying they're literally going to condemn you. So we know this book was a real place

Jonah’s Death And The Sign

SPEAKER_01 7:20

with real people verified by Jesus, clarified by Jesus. I I think that's I think that's important. So everybody who wants to write this book off and say, like, it's some kind of you know, um, parabolic story in the middle of scripture. Uh, you're just wrong. Yeah. Um, it is weird though, that it's not um, it's not most most books that are minor prophets are the writings of the prophet, and this one is just about the prophet instead, in some kind of narrative form. Okay, is Jonah the hero of this story?

SPEAKER_00 7:54

Are you oh you're asking? No, I think I think he's an idiot. Yeah, I think at the end it's pretty clear that this guy's a scumbag. I'm I'm just saying, and he he only becomes obedient because he's like, Okay, that's death. I don't okay, I'll do what you want, God. Okay. Yeah, you know, I yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

What's weird to me is his point of obedience, or let's say repentance that leads to actual obedience only leads him to being bitter and frustrated. Like the end of this book, Jonah's still being an idiot and is selfish and is mad at God, and it ends there. Yeah, but is that real obedience, though?

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Like, like it seems like more self-serving than like, hey, I love God, he's worthy, I'm gonna worship him. You know, he brought me back to life. Nothing like that. It's just like, yeah, well, that really sucked. Let me just do what God says. Yeah, you know, and then in the end, he's like, you know, essentially essentially like just uh unhappy with God's will. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 8:55

What what you know the entire the entire time, what what I'm what I'm trying to pitch to people, and part of why we're gonna do the sermon series is I want to show people that although Jonah is swallowed by a sea monster in this book, according to the Bible, right? The monster is actually doing God's will. Jonah is the monster in this story. Yeah, Jonah's the Jonah is the real uh Hobbesian Leviathan who just has appetites and desires that are his own thing. You know, and it's literally within the first three verses of this Bible, we find out he's going a different direction. And I think it's interesting too because he's a prophet, he's somebody who has communicated the word of the Lord in the past, is revered, and God calls him uh to go do something that's out of his wheelhouse. He wants him to go to the Assyrians. And I think about like our personal life and I think about the church today. Hey, I want you to go and minister to people that are not in your normal wheelhouse. And everybody's like, you know what? I would actually really like to do is leave entirely. Right. Like, think about I just think about the church today. How many people, um, the second things get uncomfortable or real, don't just abandon what God has asked them to do, but like will basically walk off the planet of their faith in general. How many conversations have you had with somebody, uh, Mike, and I know we've talked about a couple, where like you'll have a conversation with somebody and where the Bible suddenly doesn't agree with a particular stance they have, they almost leave Christianity entirely. You know what I mean? In the name of going where they want to go with it.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Yeah, and it they won't even do it necessarily like I'm leaving Christianity, right? But they almost create like uh just a different theology that's nowhere in scripture, right? They create their own um just their own way to um justify it, right? But use scripture or just negate what scripture says. That's yeah, it's weird um that people do that.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

I heard I heard this, uh I think it was David Wilkerson. He said, Men that won't forsake a besetting sin will eventually come up with their own doctrines to excuse themselves from it. And I think um when I look at this passage, I'm seeing uh Jonah doing exactly that. Uh you know what his name means? Dove. Like like an innocent, like an innocent dove, and uh Amitai means like um uh full of faith or faithful one.

Jonah’s Rebellion And Our Blind Spots

SPEAKER_01 11:35

So you have the innocent dove born of the faithful who is immediately disobeying God and going the opposite direction.

SPEAKER_00 11:45

So it's well, it's funny, you know, people name their kids something wanting them to live into that, right? Yeah, like we we try to do that, me and Lauren, and it's like um kind of went the wrong way. Yeah, this guy definitely abandoned that. He was like, Well, dad, thanks, but no thanks.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

It's so funny because some people do they live into their name and they actually represent that, and some people it's it's an ironic thing, right? So there's definitely some like satirical stuff in the book. Let's talk about let's talk about this for a second. Let's talk about the the tension here between uh divine like sovereignty and free uh free agency in this book. Yeah, because we have Jonah making lots of decisions and ultimately God still bringing about what he wants to do, but I feel like this this book is fought over by Calvinists and Arminians.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Yeah, it so like just I was thinking about it. We kind of talked about it today a little bit, and it has a very Esther-esque feel to me. So Esther uh four, um thirteen and fourteen.

SPEAKER_01 12:51

Let me God will raise up uh it's possible that God wants to raise you up as a deliberate, but even if you don't, he'll still do it.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Right, and so you see um it just not necessarily a one-for-one, but it like reading it kind of go over and you're like, dude, that's right there. Yeah, but how often I think we find ourselves in that same position, and by the grace of God, we're not swallowed by a monster, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:15

I love that about this story though. Yeah, this guy's like um, you know, I don't want to do what God says. I had this friend who told me, he's like, God is a God is a perfect gentleman, he's not gonna make you do anything that you don't want to do. And when I read the story of Jonah, I'm like, sometimes God is, sometimes he's really gracious and kind and gentle, and then sometimes he's like, get in the fish, loser. We're going, you know, we're going.

SPEAKER_00 13:40

But I kind of see that. I see that to an extent. Yeah. But he's not gonna like, like in this this aspect, like I want to be obedient and serve God, all that stuff, right? But then when he calls you to it, you're like, yeah, but I don't want to do that, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:57

Yeah. Like, yeah, and I I think that's give me give me the give me the trial that you gave that guy, because I would totally do that one. You know what I mean? Yeah. The thing that he calls you to is like, actually, maybe not that though. Yeah, you know what? Yeah, I just I think this is one of those stories where it seems like Jonah continues to do all the wrong things, and God is chasing him down. And what's crazy in this story is that the the the prophet of God of the people of God who's been given the word of God from the mouth of God, you know what I mean, is the guy who won't repent and is running.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:36

And the the Assyrians, the Ninevehites, uh, I think they get a five-word sermon in the Hebrew, like it's literally five total words, if that's if it's true. Maybe it's a you know, it's giving us a blip.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:49

Or maybe that's what he did. But and they all repent. Yeah. Like they put sackcloth and ashes on their donkeys, you know, like they're animals. They're like, this cat needs to repent. It's also been wicked. You know, I've seen what you did, you know, cobalt or whatever your dog's name is, Fred. Um what is it? Calico, carbon. Carbon, sorry. It was some kind of you know, some kind of element. But it's crazy, like, this is what's crazy is the guy that's saved, um theoretically, right? The guy that is supposed to be in covenant with God is the person who doesn't have the ability to like when I read this story, I I often think about the older son in the parable parable of the prodigal son. Right, yeah. You know what I mean? He just doesn't, it's like, I've done all the right thing. I don't want to throw a party for him. I don't want him to get saved. I'm not interested. Like, okay, now let me just throw this up against our political party system today for a second. How many Christians out there are like, I'm gonna say this, I mean this in the most biblical way possible. For those people that don't leave Jesus, don't love Jesus, damn those people. They can they can go to hell. Yeah, you know, like not really a heart to see them saved, don't really want to engage those people. I mean, you literally led uh like evangelism classes for people and took people out to do that on the streets. Um, how I mean, how how hard is it to cultivate a heart that actually wants to see people get saved and changed in a church?

SPEAKER_00 16:22

I mean, I don't think we can actually do that, right? I think that's that's that's what Christ does, right? Just like when you go out and share the gospel, you're praying that God would prepare the hearts to hear the gospel, right? Yeah. That's why like this upsets people, you know, they'll do this mass uh evangelism thing and they'll go to the mall and they're hitting everybody, boom, boom, boom, boom, you know, and they're handed out 36 bridge flyers. Bro, I shared the gospel with everyone I saw, and what that person fails to realize, it's so disingenuous, and everyone sees you, yeah, right, and they're like, run. I was a box to check, not a person that you actually exactly right caring about engaging. Yeah, and I I think so. And it's the same, like to your point, you know, you see those people and they'll share the gospel, and uh what they fail to realize is when the person rejects the gospel, they're not rejecting you, they're rejecting Christ. Yeah, but they take it so personal. And uh and I I've been guilty at when I when I was first saved, I was like, this is what we gotta do. And I almost carried that arrogance, like, okay, you don't want to accept Jesus, that's fine, that's it. I'm unsaved, or I'm saved. Good luck going to hell, you know, and you're like, yeah, that's not a heart that I man, I hurt for you. Like, I don't want you to go to hell. Yeah, but but you see it, and you brought up the current events, yeah, right? So now there's you know, between oh, you know, Jews and Christians versus the Muslims, and there's this, you know, almost this this hatred to the extent, oh blow them all up, kill them all, and it's like okay, send them to God, he'll be we're not concerned about their salvation, and you know, people don't have a heart to share the gospel with Muslims, right? And you're like, now you do, right? You have like Nick Ripkin and who's reaching all these people, but you almost hear this this idea of like they're not worthy of it, those Muslim, you know, heathen, whatever exploitatives people want to say. And it's like, no, no, I'm not worthy of it. And yet, you know, it was given like, you know what I'm saying? Like, and yet yet Jesus saved me. Yes. And I think if your attitude is they're not worthy of it, I'm not gonna share the gospel. I wonder, are you even saved? Yes. Because that's like the first step in in like the heart being broken and being receptive to the gospel is I'm sinner, I'm lost, and I cannot save myself. I am unworthy of this great gift that that God is offering me, you know? Yeah, and so I think when we have that heart towards people, I would say you need I'm not one to be like you sinned, question your salvation, like you see that in this big indie fundy circles. You know, you said the F word, you may not be a believer. Yeah, and what I would say is if you're F toast if your heart now so this is the thing, like I can struggle with bitterness, yeah, right? And so, and you know, I've been in my in my flesh unconcerned with other people. Like I can be a hard heart. Um but so sometimes I have to catch myself and be like, yeah, but I love Jesus, yeah, and I want to love what Jesus loves. And so sometimes it's like, be honest with you, where I'm at, my heart, you know, whatever I'm wrestling with, I don't really care if this person's saved. Yeah, but I know Jesus loves him, yeah, and Jesus is worthy of the praise and worship of all creation, and I want that. Yeah, I want that more than I necessarily want this person.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

So I think implicit in this entire book is the story of the incarnation. So Christ is obviously the better Jonah, right? But you have the guy who is speaking for God, you know what I mean, in comfort, in Israel, doing fine, and God tells him, I want you to go to one of the most violent nations ever. I want you to bring the gospel to these people. I want you to go from the light to the dark and bring the word to the people in darkness, horrible people who will probably kill you.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Go bring them the word. It's like, is that not the story of the incarnation? God puts on flesh, leaves perfection in paradise with the perfect unity within the Godhead, puts on flesh, comes down to a world that is steeped in darkness, who desperately needs him to bring the gospel, you know, and bring about the story of what's supposed to happen. I I think the story for me when I read this is hey, do you realize that God is invading those dark places? Also, do you realize that God is his presence isn't uh relegated to just the light?

unknown 20:48

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Like all those places that where there is darkness, where there is brokenness, he's sending us into those places. Why? Because his presence is there and he cares about it and he wants to see it changed, then we are the vehicle in which he's bringing about that change. And I just think the incarnation should be this reminder to all of us that if Jesus left perfection and comfort and put on, you know, flesh and came and dwelt among us, there's a side of that mission that calls us to do the same thing, which is hey, I I want you to incarnate Christ. You should be now be putting on Christ and going to these places where there is darkness, where there is need. And I'm not saying you need to go to, you know, some aboriginal tribe in, you know, in in uh Australia or New Guinea or something, although maybe. I just think the point is, are you invading the darkness? Are you constantly sitting back saying hard things to people who already agree with you and acting like you're doing something about it? You know? And I think this is this book, especially is intensely turning the mirror on Christians and telling them to hey, uh pay attention and look at how insidious. Your own wickedness is and how how uh the lengths that you will go to to get away from being like Christ when it becomes inconvenient.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

Well, I think that's the point, right? We're called to be salt and light. Yeah. Like like if I'm in a a place that's got Christians in this beautiful, warm, like lit up place, then what what's the point of being the light, right? Like you know, we're we're called to go into the dark places uh and and show the light of Christ, I think. And then the the Great Commission, right? If if we're just going where we're comfortable, where everyone said yes to Jesus, and you know, obviously that's church, right? Yeah, and then the the Great Commission has no it there's no point to it. Yeah, and I don't I don't think obviously we don't think it's trivial like yeah to go out and share the gospel, you know. Like I think we were called to live in a dark, you know, world infected, everything's infected by sin. And so the Great Commission is us going out as we live in this fallen world and share the light of Christ with everybody.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

So I think you're right on that's that's absolutely right.

Invading Darkness With Gospel Light

SPEAKER_01 23:01

There's this uh there's this poem that I like called The Man in the Glass, which is um not a Christian poem, but I think it's worth I'm gonna read it real quick because I think it's good. When you get what you want and your struggle for self and the world makes you king for a day, just go to the mirror and look at yourself and see what the man has to say. For it isn't your father or mother or wife whose judgment upon you must pass. The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life is the one staring back in the glass. He's the fellow to please, never mind all the rest, for he's with you clear to the end. And you've passed your most difficult, dangerous test if the man in the glass is your friend. You may fool the whole world down the pathway of years and get pats on the back as you pass, but your final reward will be heartache and tears if you've cheated the man in the class. Obviously, the Christian perspective is well, no, God is the one to please, He's the one that we should be paying attention to. But I do think there is this element of like when you read the book of Jonah, you should be asking yourself, Am I lying to myself? Like, is the variety of Christianity that I have espoused boring and safe and doesn't actually require the word of God to invade darkness in me so that I would invade darkness in other places? Yeah, you know, and um I think as we read text like this and dig into it, it's just this giant mirror because Jonah, deep down at some level, is all of us. And I think um, I don't know, man. You ever had in your life like a then the Lord sent a fish kind of moment where it's like this is not where I wanted to go, this was not part of the plan, but it was exactly what God wanted to bring about.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Yeah, I mean, yeah. So I mean, being just here in East Texas, you know, we moved here, we didn't seem to be connecting in church, yeah, and we were like, okay, we're gonna go, we're gonna move. I had a buddy who was actually planning to church, yeah. And he said, Man, come along, let's go. And we were like, let's do it. Yeah. And we were packing. And for Lauren, she's like, I don't think we should be going. For me, I'm like, we should be going. Yeah. I didn't want to be here. I was like, like, I like community, I like family, and we had none of it. And uh, you know, it's like East Texas. Everyone's got their, yeah, your Sunday friends, your Sunday family, but everyone's got their friends and family they grew up with. Yeah. And so they're gonna they're gonna die together. That's the goal. Yeah. And I think uh God was just teaching me peace and just to be here. And I mean, I don't want to be here. Um, and then Lauren came to me and was like, Yeah, I think I don't think God's calling us to go plant this church, right? And I was like, and if you know, if your wife uh, you know, it's got the same Holy Spirit in her as me, and I feel God's leading me, maybe I need to check myself, you know. And um we said no and stuff, and uh like I was I was pretty miserable. Um, I wasn't happy. And then next thing you know, God opened the door for community, we start serving, we find King's Banner, you know, and then we're here. And um, but I think God had it for us to be here, you know. We built relationships, um, brought on staff at the church we were at at the time. Yeah. Uh started leading mission trips and do stuff, and it was okay, God, this is where you had me. Yeah. But it was it was a time we're like, all right, like the loneliness, no community. I'm like, dude, we are in it, you know, and maybe that's a that's such a it seems so small, but everybody's life is different. Yeah. Everybody's fish is a little bit different. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Right, it hits a little different. And when you when you so we came from a an area that was very transient, it was a military town, and so everybody had, you know, it was like it's easy to make community when nobody has family or friends, like nobody has it. Yeah. And so we were good and we kind of got spoiled. We came out here, and it was uh it was good though. It's a social desert. Yeah, and and sometimes I think God uh puts us in the well's belly uh because of our own disobedience. Yeah, and I think sometimes he has us there to teach us patience, right? And to wait on him. And I think it's probably a little bit of both. I was real quick to jump ship, leave our church we had, yeah, you know, because it failed uh to live up to my expectation when really um yeah, it didn't, right? Like it's a good lesson, and the church isn't always clean, you're not always gonna get what you want. Yeah, right. Sometimes that's just life, right? You get people really quick to to move out of your their church because they did something that wasn't happy, right? We talked talked about judges a couple weeks ago, and it kind of reminds me of that, right? Yeah, and so um, yeah, for me that was kind of like a whale moment. I'm in the belly of the whale. Yeah, but it was just me, but like Joan, I'm just dealing with myself. I gotta get over myself. Yeah, it's not about me. It's where God has me. And sometimes it requires uh, well, it always requires obedience, right? Um but sometimes that obedience looks like I'm sitting and waiting on the Lord, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Yeah, yeah. So I think I

When God Sends The Fish

SPEAKER_01 28:10

think you're right about that too. Just in in the reminder for people that it's like you're free to make decisions, like God's giving the opportunity. Yeah, say yes or no. Now you can disobey God and pick. But what you don't get to pick is the is the fish that God sends or the storm that he hurls. Yeah. You know? Like another way to say it might be you're free to make decisions, but you are not free from the consequences of those decisions. Exactly. You know what I mean? And I think um oftentimes people will make a decision in disobedience to God and then be absolutely blown away when God sends a fish.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

You know, like I can't believe the Lord would do this to me. I can't believe this happened, I can't believe this happened. It's like, brother, this is this is actually mercy. Yeah, this is God's goodness bringing you back to where you're supposed to be. I mean, I don't know if you if you've nerded out on this story too much, man, but he calls him uh um east to Nineveh, and instead of going east about 500 miles to Nineveh, he goes 2,500 miles the opposite direction towards Gibraltar. Like that's his goal. Is like I want to go as far as I possibly can the opposite direction. And it's it's funny, it says that he goes down to Joppa, down uh to the ship, and then down into the bottom of the ship. And then by chapter two, he's down in the depths of Sheol. Like everything in this story is trying to communicate. He's spiraling downward. Yeah, it's deeper and deeper and deeper into isolation and depression, to the point where there's a storm, and all the pagans see that there is a massive problem. Who's asleep? The Christian. Who's not paying attention to what's actually going on? The Christian, because he has been spending all of his time burning his conscience and repressing what God has called him to do, and God literally has to kill him to get him to see what it's supposed to look like and be who he's supposed to be. I'm like, there's a there's a picture of salvation, I think.

SPEAKER_00 30:17

The crazy thing is you like you can't escape God. Like you see this even with like non-believers, right? Yeah, like they think that their lack of belief is gonna absolve them of all judgment and accountability to God. And you're like, no, no, no, no. Yes, like not believing does not mean there's no accountability, right? Dude, such a good point, too.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Because how many times have you heard somebody say you can't legislate morality? Or maybe like say it this way you can't tell you can't expect an unbeliever to do a better job of believing in Jesus. Nice and Jonah's like, actually, God told me to go and cry out against them because of their sin and wickedness. Yeah. I I mean, sounds to me like God's has an expectation for everybody and how we're supposed to live, and he's callers to it.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

Yeah, I I've I've heard I've heard pastors preach that, right? You can't sp expect non-believers to act like believers.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Jesus is wrong for damning them, then so so so okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

That it's so ridiculous. Yeah. So then I'm actually doing them an injustice by sharing the gospel with them. Because if they put their faith in Christ, now they have a higher expectation of Oh man, I just wrecked that person's whole life.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Now they got to make a decision.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Exactly. Yeah, I've I've heard that same nonsense from people who are like, um, you know, I think when somebody's not a believer, you know, or been deceived in a false religion, if they fall to their knees in heaven and worship Jesus, he'll let them in. Yeah. And I'm like, so I'm doing a disservice to them by being obedient to Christ. Is that what you're telling me? I shouldn't tell them anything. That's kind of logic, it's so retarded.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

It's it's beyond me. It really is. There's some there's some fun typology uh in chapter two as well, where it talks about, you know, he ascends to the depths of Sheol. And uh if you think about the story, these people who are pagans pick him up and throw him overboard, you know what I mean, to appease the wrath of God.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Right? And in Christ's story, obviously, it's a bunch of pagans who take him and nail him to the cross to appease the wrath of God. And here Christ has, you know, uh uh a crown of thorns wrapped around his head. Uh Jonah goes out of his way to say, I had seaweed wrapped around my head. You know what I mean? Like you have this picture of the sacrifice of Christ, Christ doing it in righteousness and obedience to God, Jonah. And you know what's funny too, man, is like he he could have just jumped over himself, you know. Like, why did he have to have the crew throw him? I don't know. But that's the hard guy.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

I don't know. So what's wild about this is they're they like I don't know if you've known people who do this, they they're in a desperate spot. These non-believers hate Jesus in a desperate spot, and they will go to a Christian and be like, Would you please pray for me? Yeah, you got these guys, the same people who just prayed to their gods, go to him and it's like call upon your God. Yeah, so he's like, Cool. I mean, in so that's interesting point, but then you mentioned he had to have them throw him over, and it's like at that point, would you be like, dude, just take me back? I I know what's going on, just take me back, I'll do it. Yeah, and he's like, at first, he's like, dude, death would be better than obedience. Oh, dude, just throw me over, we'll end this. And then he finds out it's not over, so he's crying out, right? And he's like, you know, obviously God delivers him, yeah, you know, in order for him, but you're just like, dude, you made this way harder. But that's like the idea with sin. You get caught in this spiral, right? Totally, and you you make it worse and worse. We had talked about it, so I I you know, like you hear these stories of these pastors, right? Or these these Christians, right? They they uh start flirting with a girl, right? They don't get caught, it escalates. Yeah, now all of a sudden, you know, it's a little cutesy, it escalates more, you know, it's touching, they're on dates, they're kissing. Next thing you know, it's full-on affair. As if that was that was already

Nineveh, Typology, And Final Charge

SPEAKER_00 34:10

an affair, right? Yeah, yeah. Oh, all of a sudden the person gets pregnant and they're like, oh no, I gotta hide this. I gotta get rid of this. You know, they kill the lady, kill the baby. Like, like I, you know, but this is the thought. When you're caught in this idea, this sin, right? It escalates. Sin causes you almost to become crazy, like you're not thinking correctly. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

You just do this wild strolling down, man.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

And you see that with Jonah, like, okay, I'm gonna flee. Okay, you know, um, I'm I'm gonna pray to my or I'm not gonna pray to my guy.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

I'm gonna hide from the made the sea on a boat in the sea.

SPEAKER_00 34:43

Yeah, so you just see him escalate, right? And then he ends up, I guess you could say being obedient, but you know, but like he doesn't want to. He begrudgingly goes to these people.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

I think, I think, man, it was um, I think it was the compulsion that came from all of these people telling him we have to do something. And what's crazy is in verse 9, he says, I'm a Hebrew and I fear the Lord God of heaven who made the sea and the dry land. What's funny, uh all the pagans actually fear God and start praying to that God and say, what do we have to do to appease this God? Who doesn't actually fear the God of the Hebrews is the Hebrew at this point, who is running from that God and hiding and and apparently doesn't fear him. So he said, I mean, yeah. So you know it's like, dude, you're lying, right? You're a liar. You're a liar, you're a liar. Like again, we have the dove, you know, the innocent one, born of the faithful, you know what I mean? Who fears God doing exactly the opposite, and the pagans being able to point out and say, dude, something is wrong. And so uh what's funny too is that they cast lots, yeah, right? Like, you know, the pagan tradition, they probably have bones with runes cut into them or something, and then they're like, Oh no, it says it's this guy, which is even funnier because it's like, look, if God wants to get you, it he'll use anybody to do it. Yeah, use that you might be like, you can't use an unrighteous person to call me out like that. He 100% can and will.

unknown 36:17

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 36:18

And we wanted to be like, no, it has to be a person more righteous than I am to call me out. Nah, dude, God will use anybody he wants to.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, what's what's interesting to you, and it just came to me is you're you're talking about his name. And it's like uh we have this opportunity, right? Like, um we've been called to Christ, right? And um, so I you know, like we kind of have new names, right? We're new creatures, and it's like we can live into that or we can reject it, right? Yeah, and he's he's at a point where like um he's a prophet, right? He has this name that has meaning, has weight, and uh obviously God and his his sovereignty, right? Like it's his name, right? And God shows him like, man, you can choose to live into that or you can reject it. And I think as believers, we're all in that too, right? Like, um, we represent the name of Christ. We can live into that or we can reject it. Yeah, you know, yeah. I just yeah, it's I think that's exactly right, man.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

And his identity changes obviously after he you know comes out of the fish, and um, I think about the guy walking through the city who's been in a fish's belly for three days. He probably looks something like Betelgeuse. You know what I mean? Smell very good. That's what I'm saying. Like he rolls in. There is this, there's this theory. Man, I don't I don't know if I like ascribe to this, okay, but the Assyrians had a god called Abkalu, and it wasn't one god, it was several of these. They were half men, half fish. All right, imagine old Greg, you know old Greg. Yeah, exactly. So they have like this half man, half fish messenger of the gods who is speaking to them and they're supposed to listen to. And then you have Jonah show up who looks like he just got burped out by a fish because he literally did. It's possible that people even knew that this guy was spit up by a fish. I don't know. But he rolls up and basically tells them, repent or you're gonna die. It's possible that God spoke to these people from within their own revered tradition. Like it makes me think about uh Muslims who are getting saved because they're having dreams about Jesus. That's intense. You know, when their own tradition says like dreams are very valuable and important, pay attention, and God's like, knock knock, what you dreaming about? You know, I I see stuff like that, and I'm like, I I don't know. That may be a naturalistic way to approach it, but I do think it's fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

It's cool. You know what when you look at it though, let's suppose they thought he was the god, right? Their fish god, whatever the heck. And he goes in there and they think he's the fish god and he proclaims Yahweh. Yeah. You know what that does to their whole belief system, okay, this fish guy is not real, it's not legit, right? Yeah, it almost reminds me of um the statue. Uh is it the statue of the unknown god, but then they they start saying is it in Acts 17. They start is it they start saying, Is it Paul? They say, Is they think he is a God? Or Hermes and Yeah, yeah. And then he they say no and they stone him. Yeah, right? It might be a different situation.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

I think it's earlier on different city.

SPEAKER_00 39:22

Yeah, yeah, but but still the same, right? They they think like you basically took what they think of a God, yeah, and you let them know no, no, no, there's one true God. Not at all. Yeah, not at all. And I guess at first, if people think you're a god, if you can let them know there is no God but but Jesus, I think you're you're all right. But uh you know, maybe it's something I don't know. I just think uh so much there.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

I think it's one of these stories that you read and you're reading. This is why I'm saying it's such an interesting story because you have a lot of human um uh what what am I trying to say? There's a word I'm looking for. Agency. A lot of human agency clearly portrayed in here, and then at the same time, you have all this providence of exactly how this happened and why it went down and how it went down that makes this book just this fascinating picture of the mercy and grace of God, even in the midst of our own disobedience and the direction that we're going. And I think um I think when I read this book, man, what I get most excited about is I think it's a great reminder for us as a church. Um, and I mean this like ecumenically, like the church, not just our church, the church, and for us as individuals, not to become the kind of people who are very religious and comfortable with our identity and feel like we have a seat at the table because God loves us and everybody else be damned and we'll just be comfortable. Like this is a book that's trying to tell you God invaded the darkness by putting on our flesh, we are to incarnate Christ and invade the darkness just like he did. This is what we're called to. Don't fool yourself. If you're running, you're simply a liar. Yeah, either you will be obedient to Christ and and you know get to walk with him in what he has called you to do, or the Lord sent a fish. Yeah, and that ironically is the grace of God on your life to continue to draw you in and get his will done in and through you, even if you don't necessarily like it uh the way that he wanted to bring it about. But sure, dude, any other thoughts on uh Jonah before we close it up? Uh no, man, I think we covered it. I'm sure on my way home be like just in which well, good news is everybody can tune into the uh the sermon series over the next five weeks. We'll be digging into these different chapters. I'm gonna bring up all kinds of stuff that'll be fun, but ultimately it's gonna be a reflection on is your Christianity uh a status for you and a position of comfort, or is your Christianity that which moves you? And I'll leave it with this quote. William Booth said, I'm not waiting for a movement of God. I am a movement of God. And when I think about that, I think like, yeah, if God has placed his spirit inside of you, placed you at his table, seated you in the heavenly places, uh, put his sword in your hand, his armor on your body, and you're waiting for something else to happen before you jump in, you're already missing that he has moved in you and made you a part of what he's doing. Go do it. Don't be a liar.

SPEAKER_00 42:21

He's already given you permission. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:22

Be obedient and trust God and know at the same time that even when people are disobedient, God's still gonna bring about one of, you know, uh, at least in this story, one of the greatest revivals that has ever happened in human history. So right on. Awesome. All right, guys. Well, you all have an amazing week and uh thanks for joining us. We'll talk to y'all soon.