Zesty Marketing Podcast

Destination Innovate argues for smarter, more personal integrated marketing.

May 21, 2019 Whitney Hahn | DigitalBard.com Season 3
Zesty Marketing Podcast
Destination Innovate argues for smarter, more personal integrated marketing.
Chapters
Zesty Marketing Podcast
Destination Innovate argues for smarter, more personal integrated marketing.
May 21, 2019 Season 3
Whitney Hahn | DigitalBard.com

Storied messaging and getting into the minds of the individuals in your brand’s audience are just a couple of ways that our podcast guests continue to be incubators for big ideas.

Jennifer Barbee, CEO, and Kristen Cruz, President, of Destination Innovate have been working in digital marketing for nearly 20 years and are redefining the ad agency model.

They’ve worked with over 400 brands, helping businesses modernize their marketing with new approaches in brand influencers and paid endorsers, looking at the bigger picture in data and statistics, and jumping on board the future of marketing – now.

Resource: Destination Innovate website

Want more?

  • Find companion articles and other helpful tidbits on video production and promotion from Digital Bard.
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  • Rate or review this podcast on iTunes.
Show Notes Transcript

Storied messaging and getting into the minds of the individuals in your brand’s audience are just a couple of ways that our podcast guests continue to be incubators for big ideas.

Jennifer Barbee, CEO, and Kristen Cruz, President, of Destination Innovate have been working in digital marketing for nearly 20 years and are redefining the ad agency model.

They’ve worked with over 400 brands, helping businesses modernize their marketing with new approaches in brand influencers and paid endorsers, looking at the bigger picture in data and statistics, and jumping on board the future of marketing – now.

Resource: Destination Innovate website

Want more?

  • Find companion articles and other helpful tidbits on video production and promotion from Digital Bard.
  • Suggest a guest on Facebook.
  • Rate or review this podcast on iTunes.
Speaker 1:

Welcome to the zesty marketing podcast where we explore the unique challenges, successful tactics, and emerging trends encountered when marketing, leisure, and recreation venues. Here's your host, speaker, consultant, and marketing geek trapped in a video producers body, Whitney Hahn.

Speaker 2:

Storied messaging and getting into the minds of the individuals in your brand's audience are just a couple of ways that our podcast guests continue to be incubators for big ideas. Jennifer Barbie, CEO, and Kristen Cruz, president, of Destination Innovate have been working in digital marketing for nearly 20 years and are redefining the ad agency model. They've worked with over 400 brands helping businesses modernize their marketing with new approaches in brand influencers and paid endorsers and looking at the bigger picture in data and statistics, but what's their secret to staying focused on the bigger picture?

Speaker 2:

The great ideas started to shrink and become slave to whatever this millisecond view became. The idea needs to match kind of more like the narrative psychology or the saw or the pop culture of the potential consumer or business that you're targeting.

Speaker 2:

So get those customer journey maps out and join me. Now, as Jennifer and Kristin shared their big idea approach to integrated marketing.

Speaker 2:

Jump right in by telling me a little bit about what you do and how you bring it uniquely to the people you serve because I think you bring a tremendous wealth with you and are able to focus that wealth for good instead of evil. So Kristen, why don't we come to you first, for just a little bit of background.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, well I think Destination Innovate really focuses in the aura of redefining the Ad Agency. We use that term a lot because we, we tend to hear a lot of perceptions about what an ad agency does and how they work with their clients and how they service their clients. And sometimes it's, it's good and sometimes it's not so good. And when we think about how we work with clients and how we service those clients and how we really work with them as partners and the projects and in their goals, we really feel like we are redefining how we work as an ad agency for them. And we often times try to not label ourselves as an agency because we really do feel that partnership aspect. We are almost like an extension of their team and that we become the very different label. I guess is, is kind of how you can explain it.

Speaker 2:

Jennifer, one of the things that struck me about how are you describe the agency and the work that you do, is that you're an incubator for big ideas. Can you give me an example of how you bring that to play?

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. Actually, I'm really glad you asked the question. It comes right off of what Kristen was saying. Uh, what really happened with agency world was when digital blew up then the, you know the buzzwords, the big data and so the great ideas started to shrink and become slave to whatever this millisecond view became. So for us, we're the incubator and the big idea, the idea needs to match kind of more like the narrative psychology or the saw or the pop culture of the potential consumer or business that you're targeting. So we look at idea first and then validate with data versus being a slave and saying, all right, if we just keep ramming down this message down their throat, 37,000 times, someone will eventually click, which means nothing. So even though we're born in digital or bred in digital, we understand it in a way that allows us to bring back the creativity and the correct ideas that match, you know, true spots.

Speaker 2:

So this is such an interesting point because I appreciate storytelling. And one of the phrases that you said struck me, I, I want to understand how you mean it a little bit more. You said there's a narrative psychology at play. Okay. And that's a big, uh, a whole lot of vocabulary there. Um, break it down for me cause I'm a bearer of small brain. Tell me what you mean when you say a narrative psychology and how you apply that to marketing.

Speaker 2:

Well, a narrative psychology is the concept that we care about us in anybody's story more than we care about your story. So for us, and you're into psychology is, how do we tell a story for our client that puts their prospect, their customer, uh, their end game in the story. So for instance, social media basically is narrative psychology. It's, you know, it's basically pushing out constantly here what I'm eating. Here's where I'm going, peer envy, all of those things. So narrative really needs a story of you and you being the end target.

Speaker 2:

Kristen, can you give me an example of a real world use case for that. Like how a client may have come to you with a certain narrative and you went, yeah, but that's putting you in the hero's role, if you will, rather than the people you want to come visit and how you help change it. Sometimes a before and an after transformation really helps us understand what you're trying, what you're trying to do.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Well I think you can really relate it back to the old saying of the 80 20 rule almost, in the way that marketers really, you know, you have a particular job, you have a particular focus. You've got to get a message out there that you hope and think will make sense and resonate with someone, but you're thinking about it in the way that you might interpret that message or that you might respond to that message. And a lot of times you are thinking about it in your own psychology, in your own psyche versus thinking about it in how someone else might interpret that message. Um, and so for us, it's really about taking that real principle of the 80 20 rule and thinking about, is this really about me? Is this really about what I'm trying to put out there into the market? Or is this about a story that we think will resonate? Is it about someone else that's going to create some sort of emotion or some sort of, you know, feeling with the RN audience that takes me out of the equation, takes the, the end marketer or the end business or service your group members, putting this out completely out of the equation and letting those two pieces connect. And so when we think about it from that perspective and we put ourselves in those other, um, end users' shoes, the way that you put your message out there and the way you might market it completely shifts in a lot of cases and it really just takes it back to the end users having this, um, this reaction and this emotion to your brand or to your message that is, is completely moved away from maybe what the original intent might've been. That's sort of the, I guess the best way to explain it.

Speaker 2:

Jen,

Speaker 4:

and I've got a great like real world explanation if you'd like. Uh, we had a client who was trying to reach small businesses in the pet industry. And so the narrative psychology that played into that was through their social media ads, was like, for instance, meet Karen, she's working 70 hour days. She's, you know, she's popping in, quick meals for her, for her kids on and on and on to the, to the pain solution, which was this system to make her business run smoother, to do inventory control, to all this kind of stuff. So that was a narrative story for someone to go, oh wait, that is me, that is me. So that's an example of the way we put out a narrative psychology is to tell stories that relate, people go yes, that's my pain. And we end, with narrative, we always try to put the client's brand or perspective as a painkiller and not a vitamin because if your tooth's hurting, you're going straight to that dentist, but taking vitamins is a whole other psychology. So we tried it, we tried to relate that to relieving. So if it's vacations or travel, it's you know, I haven't taken my travel days and so long and this is how I need to feel and this is how I want to feel. And they're relating that straight back to the brand because that's the pain reliever. You will get this outcome from your particular pain situation.

Speaker 2:

The pain reliever and not a vitamin. That is a great metaphor. I'm totally stealing that.

Speaker 4:

Steal away. Steal away. Seth Godin says it all the time. Steal away.

Speaker 2:

Excellent. Excellent. Um, tell me about some of the things Kristen, and I'll ask you back to you for this one. Tell me about some of the marketing methods that you're using that you are finding are most effective that helps share this narrative and help people identify, yes, I have that pain. Yes. I want the pain killer that you're, that you're inviting me to, you know, and bringing them into these new recreation and destination experiences that just wow.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely. Well, I think for sure social media is probably at the top of our list. Um, when you think about the, the psyche that consumers are in when they're involved in social media, when they're on Facebook, when they're using Instagram, when they're trying to capture their own moments for others to see when they're trying to capture a story. Um, you know, they're in a different mindset. And so when, when we utilize social media in that method of putting information out and helping and wanting it to create some sort of emotion with them, that's at top of our list. That's really where we focus a lot of our time and effort. Um, and also, you know, we go back to thinking about how we really target our messaging and target who we should be in front of we really like to think about it as if we are putting this message out there for one particular person, that person on the other end of this message should, should really feel like this was meant for me.

Speaker 3:

They're talking directly at me. This is, this makes me feel some kind of way. And social media for us is a huge piece to that, specifically Facebook and Instagram right now because we are able to target very specifically how we're putting that message out there, who we're getting it in front of, at what points within their journey, their behavior, what they're doing throughout the day. Are we getting that message in front of them to make sure that we are hitting them when we think it makes, it creates that, um, that type of emotion that sticks with them throughout. So that's really where we focus quite a bit.

Speaker 2:

It sounds like you want us, you want to customize that message and the timing of of that message so that the person receiving the message is just an inch shy of saying, dude, are they listening to me? Like where are they that they knew

Speaker 3:

exactly

Speaker 2:

this is what I needed right now.

Speaker 3:

Big Brother style. Absolutely. You know it's the best time when you think about a message and I'll give, I'll give you an example. I think that the messages that resonate me with to me the most is about five or six o'clock in the afternoon. You're wrapping up your work day. You've just, you've had, it's a crazy Monday, right? You've gone through, you know, four or five major projects, you've been on the phone most of the day. And I get hit with a message that's more about, you know, self awareness or you know, finding that me time or you know, those types of messages in a certain point of the day really hit me a little differently because I'm thinking about how can I wind down from the day, how can I take a breather and focus on me for a minute and kind of get into a, uh, into a break mode.

Speaker 3:

And so really when you think about hitting people in certain aspects, it really boils down to what exactly are you saying to them at that point in the day? What type of, I mean, it boils down to it is, you know, a quick video of something that just, and it can be just nonsense. It's almost like you know that type of TV that you watch at a certain point when you're feeling like, I just want to watch something I'd have to think about, but I don't have to try to pick apart plot, you know, issues and figure out what's going to happen at the end. It's just, it's, it really boils down to every little aspect of what you put out there needing to work together to deliver that message at that exact point in time.

Speaker 2:

So in addition to the social media Jen, I know that you also mentioned that paid websites, programmatic ad buys, boosted content that's been very strong in brand ambassadors and influencers came up on the list as well. And I hear that from a number of people, some of which say the way that they're seeing everybody else use brand ambassadors and influencers is really not right. Or I'll say not optimized. How is it that you optimize relationships with brand ambassadors and influencers that really helps craft the message, but in a way that still feels authentic and doesn't feel like some, you know, paid endorsement?

Speaker 4:

I'm so glad you said authentic first. But I will say that I feel like being authentic is also being transparent to it being a paid endorsement. I don't think there's a problem with that at all as long as it's done well.

Speaker 2:

Good point.

Speaker 4:

My favorite example of it, my favorite example of it is how ScentBird blew up. They do these with their ambassadors and their influencers. They do these quick beauty hack videos and ScentBird is one of them and it's pretty transparent that they're getting paid for it. But the person is getting value out of the entire content brought in. So our philosophy is following that great model of let's make sure that these influencers are sort of first in the right pocket, they have the right audience. And then secondly, let's build something around that audience that gives them value because giving them value, it's going to connect that back to the brands that much better. So I think that is the, that is the core piece of it. And you have to remember with social, uh, whether it be influencer or whether it be, you know, a local community ambassador or whatever it is. The big thing is social is peer envy. So you want to make sure that whatever you're putting out there is something for someone wants to grab on.

Speaker 2:

Well I have nothing—

Speaker 4:

So that all their followers—

Speaker 2:

they have big communities, and I certainly have nothing against paid endorsements, I mean the athletes, for example, have been getting paid endorsements for years to wear certain swag to -to- to have a certain brand of shoes or a certain brand of tennis racket that they use. And that's been very common practice. What rubs me wrong is if it isn't very easily disclosed as you just suggested, Jennifer, or it's not very easy, easily identified as product placement when it lands somewhere in the middle and you're just not quite sure it just, I can't even describe it, but you just know it when you see it. It's like, well that feels ughy. That's an industry term, right?

Speaker 4:

And there's such a big challenge, especially all these like influencer firms popping up of booking talent. And again, going back to the data that I have an issue with is mila secs. These, you know, how many likes on the, on the Instagram post on whatever. Like that doesn't mean anything all the way down to real business. So I prefer to work one on one with potential influencers and Kristen can can really tap into the micro influencer movement now. But I feel like that thing is going to blow up in their face. And there's so many lawsuits going on with with influencers and what you put out and what they promise and what it looks like they have and what it actually comes down to.

Speaker 2:

It gets really weird.

Speaker 3:

Well, and I will, yeah, and I think going back to the authenticity piece of it, I mean it is, we are, it's 2019 we are all very— we're a lot savvier than we were when influencer marketing became a deal, you know, a few years ago. And it really sort of blew up. And so when we think about hearing about products and services from those that we know that have millions of followers, you know, it definitely hits you differently. It's not the same sort of reaction that you might have or you might have had, you know, a few years ago when it wasn't so prominent in social media today. And so when what we really typically suggest, especially when it comes down to destinations in more so from a travel perspective, it's really focusing in on the micro influencers and not being afraid to focus in on those that are within your area, who are already out there playing, eating, picking up their kids, you know, doing all these activities where if you really look at them holistically, what you're asking them to promote or to talk about or to experience, isn't far off of what they're already doing.

Speaker 3:

And so they're, you know, their audience is extremely relevant to what it is that you're, that you're there working through for you as an influencer. And it's also very specific to where it is that that product or that service or whatever they're promoting. Um, it's very, it's very specific to the location and so those people are a lot more, um, you know, likely to take advantage of that. And the majority if you really look from a statistical standpoint, the majority of influencers are those micro influencers between 10 and 50,000 followers collectively. Um, and so they are still using social media in a way that is, you know, it's, it's something that you can relate to. It's not all about being an ambassador or being an influencer. They are really using it on a day to day basis to just share your experiences in general. So it just definitely feels more authentic from that standpoint.

Speaker 2:

More, like a neighborhood insider then the reality TV star.

Speaker 3:

Yeah

Speaker 2:

Is that a good description?

Speaker 4:

You're going to get much—

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 4:

So much further than the one and done with the campaign. You know, that's just a tiny, tiny fraction of time. It's like a Twitter role and it's gone. And so you blow this incredible budget on a microscopic piece of time that with micro influencers, with the smaller ones, with the ones that have a broader, and it goes longer. And you have a long tail opportunity there.

Speaker 1:

You are listening to the Zesty Marketing Podcast with Whitney Hahn, managing partner at Digital Bard, a video production and promotion partner for the Leisure and recreation markets. Learn how to activate your core audiences with video. Discover more episodes and subscribe@zestymarketingpodcast.com

Speaker 2:

One of the campaigns that you wanted to talk about is around visit space coast in Florida. Um, I used to live and be on the radio in Melbourne, Florida, which is about 30 minutes south of where the Kennedy space center is so part of the space coast and we would pause our top 40 radio broadcasting to carry the space shuttle launches live. I mean it was a big deal. So when I saw this come up on your list I was like, yeah, I kind of feel like, Oh let's talk about that a little bit. Tell me as a, as an example of some of the campaigns that you've helped influenced and the results that you've achieved through your influence. Tell me about visit space coast where it started, you know, in a brief format and then where you helped them move it.

Speaker 4:

Well when I started working with, with Eric Garvey there visit space coast it does, it covers Melbourne, Cocoa beach, you know it's a long— It's a pretty big 72 miles of beach there. So it's a big destination. They had just decided they didn't want the Ad Agency model — they just let go of their ad agency came on as a consultant to restructure that kind of build an in house agency and give them support. And social is one area where they were just at the bottom, at the bottom, at the bottom of the entire state of Florida. And we know how big Florida tourism is. So realize that's because their, their PR agency had been doing a push instead of a pull strategy. Meaning they're like shoving content down everybody's throat and you know, you're not visiting every single day and it's not community management, it's tourism marketing. So you take a little different approach that we say, okay, so what's going to make these people like wanna be our best friend and just follow and share. So we really started with just kind of insane shareable main content. We started with just doing these like funny memes and, and putting no pain in there to start with. And what was really fun was, um, the Christmas one we did went viral with no paid, uh, got over a million shares and views or not views, sorry it wasn't video but shares and likes and so forth. And it was towards the night before Christmas and all through the house the AC was on because we live in the South.

Speaker 4:

So we've got, so just totally had nothing to do with book now book now book now. But what it did was it revitalized this audience, it completely increased their following and that particular week, it beat everybody in Florida including the state of Florida itself in terms of engagement. So we leveraged that viewership to now start working into advertising for them. So there were several storied campaigns that we would do because what our, what our major piece with the Facebook advertising again is we didn't want to go, here's one ad. And we're going to keep showing it to you until you actually do something, what we would do is, back to big brother. Although we do big brother a little differently than most people, it's a story. So it's last click attribution. So if you've engaged with this carousel ad, the next ad you might be is a video and it continues the story and pulls you into wanting to visit or share, tell your neighbor about this great destination.

Speaker 4:

And then, uh, if you an, if you happen to share that, then you got a different piece of content or advertising that tells another story, and another incentive, and it might go down to some giveaways, it might go down to several things but we put these in persona buckets. So the persona was, this is, this is a mom with a family. She makes these decisions. So she has this persona, so we're talking to like this or this is a double income, no kids, it's just so that I could go away any time they gonna talk like this, here's a group planners and we had seven or eight personas that we brand down with that. And we worked directly with Facebook to work out the advertising and the Nielsen lives and all of that kind of good stuff. And turned out fantastic. They got an incredible increase in the tourism tax revenue just for that campaign and Facebook put it up. It still has it up as there a, one of their case studies for destinations? So, proud moment!

Speaker 2:

I can tell you're a proud mama and you deserve to be, ah, I understand that actually, if we quantify it cause we're data nerds, we like to quantify things, about a 12% increase in year over year tourism tax revenue for the space coast, which is, which is not nothing. I mean that is a statistically significant stuff. Um, I want to go back to one of the phrases that you use that I think might be a little new to some members of the podcast audience and that is last click attribution. Kristen, can you explain what that is? I'm getting all my stuff— I've just realized all my vocabulary. Kristen, tell me what that means. It's coming over to Kristen.

Speaker 4:

It's cause she has her librarian glasses on.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So in any attribution model, when you have a series of messages that you're putting out to someone or to a group of people you really want to look at, where at that point did we capture some sort of KPI? Where did we capture a click, where did we capture a lead, where did we capture a subscription, whatever that KPI might be. Last click attribution is looking at where we last attributed that conversion to happen. And this might be in a series of let's say I've, I've been running a campaign for three months and this, and me, particular person on the other end of this campaign who sees several messages, I might've engaged, you know, seven times at this point, I might have clicked through to um, it an ad and gone to the website and perused and looked around and did a little research. I might've jumped back out and three days later I got another ad or another social media post and I jumped in, you know, did whatever. But a last click attribution model looks at where in that last part with them did we attribute a conversion or a KPI that we're tracking considerably.

Speaker 3:

And that last look attribution model is a very typical model for advertisers who are looking at running a series of messages over a long period of time and really trying to find out where at that point in their journey did they convert. And then they look at all that last click attribution data and they determine, well, if we're looking at everything holistically, um, we are seeing conversions in this platform, most often, based on a last click attribution. So that's kinda typically how we measure and the, ah, the other terms you might hear is first click, um, you know, there, there is also a multi attribution model where you're looking at multiple layers and you're tracking everything and you have to have some pretty sophisticated data to really get that data apart. So last click attribution I think is probably one of the most commonly attribution or used attribution models out there.

Speaker 2:

I have, to admit—

Speaker 3:

and I just want to add that—

Speaker 2:

Go ahead, Jennifer.

Speaker 3:

Sorry. I just want to add one piece to that too. So there's, there's a part of that too that, uh, that we know can muddle the data because, and this was the, this was the argument when, you know, TV and print, were trying to desperately keep things away from digital is they can be influenced. So let's say, um, they've seen a TV commercial over and over and over again, and, but when they're on the web, they finally see an ad where they can click. So, which was more effective? So there's some, there's some strategy that has to go into that data when you look at last click attribution, because it can be, if you're running retargeting and programmatic and multi all over the web, but they just happen to click on the social, does that mean they should drop the rest and social work? So there's a buying strategy. You have to go back and look at the tapestry of the whole thing.

Speaker 2:

It was just about to say that I, I have to admit it to certain bias like that myself, I think, of you know, when I was a high schooler and my mother would tell me some amazing piece of advice like five times and I ignore her until I heard it from one of my friends and then it was the best idea I'd ever heard. You know, that is exactly what you've just described. All of it had to marinate, you know, in my head for this is probably a better way to behave. This is probably a better way to handle stress or to resu— you know, improve your relationships, whatever. But as long as it's for my mom and I'm a teenage girl, I am not listening. But I hear it from a friend

Speaker 4:

and this is why—

Speaker 3:

Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 4:

This is why Mercedes Benz and Lexus, and the high end auto manufacturers start marketing at 14 years old people or I'm sorry, eight acts or they start very, very young because becomes this. It's this long process of that's the aspiration and now I can buy it. So you'll see a lot of things happen. I say long tail, this would be like a long beginning of beach rather. It's got, it takes a little bit of time to get in there and that's what branding is about and that's the, that's the compression right now with so many people thinking digital needs right now. Lead generation, demand generation or two different things. Okay. That's a whole other pockets right there.

Speaker 2:

Now you go now to enter for you. Should I, should I go back to our, over our vocabulary nerd? Kristen, did you tell us the difference between lead generation and demand generation?

Speaker 3:

I knew it clicked on Max. This is definitely another podcast for sure. Um, demand generation and lead generation are different because you are asking to,

Speaker 7:

again,

Speaker 3:

your psychological, just the way that you think about what you wear, interacting with in two different buckets. When you're thinking about demand generation, you are wanting, it's more about branding and creating a demand for something that they may or may not need right now or even want right now. But you are building that demand. Oh. So that as you get into a lead Gen model, you know who you're talking to, you know what you're talking about, you know, how are you putting it in front of them and that bottles more about conversion. It's more about how do I take those that I've created this demand around and turn them into clients and customers and basically push them over the threshold. And when you take those and look at them into different buckets, the marketing tactics and the things you do in those two different buckets are very different. The way you talk to them, the way that you try to educate them about what it is that you're putting out there, address pain points, address, uh, how it can make their lives better or their lives easier, whether it's personal product or even a professional product. That is, where are you really focused from a demand standpoint. And again, the lead generation piece of it is very much about getting them over that hump to becoming that client or that customer.

Speaker 2:

So again, to put it in a real scenario, because I have to, I have to use small words in hand. Puppets for me to understand it. Right. So it sounds like, it sounds like, it sounds like this might be akin to, I'm in the mall, it's 1130 I'm getting hungry and I smell all the various smells coming from the food court. Demand has been generated when he's hungry is the right time of day. I am smelling delicious food that I get to the food court and now I see the Tacos and the fish and the burgers and the fried chicken and based on how well they're showing their products or how long the line is that now I'm at the final decision point, the purchase point and they're converting me lead generations long standing in front of all the way out.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Demand generation is dating and lead generation putting a ring on it.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

No ring on it. Right. This conversation has been going really well. I've almost lost track of time and it's always time for us to wrap it up. Um, so Jennifer, as you think back on the, the visit space cause canteen and what you helped them achieve and what are some of the lessons that you've learned? Maybe the great way and what you're proud of or maybe a painful lesson learned that you can help me and others avoid?

Speaker 2:

Well, I think the biggest lesson is just like with anything you do play. It's how I've had to take longer and cost more. So I think that's the core of it is it texts, they take a lot more time to exit the story pieces that we really want to do and test in a way. And the lesson we really learn is the 10% testing down those personas is not an eighth a standard or ab type of thing. It's the overall carve out that 10% budget and really test your storytelling and how that works out. So it's a lot different than let's just start to ads and see which one gets more clicks. But the time invested in a campaign of this sort or really any good, this is back what said earlier about how we feel more fatigued in a little different from other ad agencies is really take the time to the out that story and how that story is going to interact and how this piece of it might be it and so forth.

Speaker 2:

So down that funnel, you know, working out the story. I think the biggest lesson is really have to think about the investment of time and the different type of people that need to be part of that. You've got storytellers, got writers, you've got visual artists, yeah, media buyers and they all speak different languages. It pulling those languages together is a big baits. You gotta think about that common goal and we ride all of those campaigns like per se. So we were like the biggest lesson is she said all day, everyday thing. You're like a crusade rather, and just going, going, going

Speaker 2:

increasingly as you think to the future of advertising, marketing and demand generation and lead generation and influencers. Probably some terminology we haven't even been invented yet. What has you most excited? What are you keeping your eyes on as you look to the horizon for marketing?

Speaker 3:

We, I think the biggest thing I will talk about them micro influencers, uh, is extremely, uh, right now. And I think it will continue that way for awhile. But the other big, uh, piece to everything that we're doing and what we're thinking about for tomorrow are hearables identify likes to, um, for, what's the phrase that you use for this?

Speaker 2:

The future is here.

Speaker 3:

Oh yeah.

Speaker 2:

Hearables I got you. Okay.

Speaker 3:

Yes,

Speaker 2:

Juanita. Nice.

Speaker 3:

Think about how we are interacting as consumers with devices using the waste that versus texts and um, how we search for things, how we initiate actions, whether it's we want to play a song, we want to order a pizza, we want to know when our package will be dilemma. All of these various devices that are changing the game for how consumers are looking for information. And so that is going to completely change the game for how we serve information. And so with that, that's a really exciting piece because we're all kind of figuring it out together and the Amazons and the googles and all the big dogs, you know, in, in, in the industry, um, who had really been kind of changing the game and keeping us on our toes are going to continue to keep us on our toes, uh, for how we deliver and market messages to consumers, um, in the next, you know, five to 10 years.

Speaker 3:

And so that's going to be a really exciting component to, to marketing just in general, especially for digital. Um, because our devices are getting smaller, our patients as consumers, it's a very small, things need to be quick and to the point and very precise and the expectations of consumers, you know, in the next five years is a, you need to know what I like. You need to know who I am. You need to know what I did yesterday. You need to have all of these things figured out before you put something in front of me. Uh, and that, that is the expectation, uh, for consumers in general. So that those, those things I think are going to keep us on our toes. For sure. Those are very exciting.

Speaker 2:

Anything else that's exciting you on the horizon or anything else that you think, you know, we have another conversation five years from now, we're high fiving like, oh, you totally called it, you called it, you saw that can run a mile away. What would be most exciting to you as a marketer?

Speaker 3:

I would say from a travel perspective and how we are utilizing technology travel. I would say, I think I heard something on the radio the other day about how airlines are offering up itineraries using veggies. So you can text an airline Emoji, say no airplane Emoji plus the Eiffel Tower and it will immediately send you back, um, airfare, itineraries for a flight to Paris. So it seems like that really get me excited about where we're going. Because again, people want things quickly. The patients is very bad and we will be communicating. It will be all visual at this point. Um, but that I think from a travel perspective, that's just, that's what really excites me in the way that we are utilizing technology, uh, in booking travel and how it's expanding and evolving so quickly right now. It's really going to get us in a whole different ballpark from a marketing standpoint. Um, I think

Speaker 2:

my future outlook I'll takeaway might be a little more dystopian and the positivity and that is I think we are right on the precipice of what I would call the death of websites. I think these overinflated over database websites, it's just not where the keep paying and paying and paying to get attention to a website when there's all these other sales channels and where people are actually browsing is yelling, you're like, Christian, this is social media. So I really feel like the big content websites will shrink down to, you know, just some information or how to get around and how to, how to do those things. But the large website is really almost archaic at this point.

Speaker 1:

Hmm,

Speaker 2:

absolutely. You're going to see how other people weigh in on that. How interesting. Interesting. Well, I really enjoyed our conversation today, ladies. Destination Innovate is not serving company. You want to check back in from time to time with going to hook. That's going to be okay with both of you.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. What a great conversation.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for listening to the zesty marketing podcast with your host, Whitney Hahn from digital barred. We invite you to pose a question or suggest a guest or subscribe at zesty marketing podcast, [inaudible] dot com.