Interview with Judd Groden, LCSW

On this empowering episode, ADHD Coach and Licensed Clinical Social Worker Judd Groden joins our Founder and President, Marc Almodovar, for an uplifting chat about overcoming struggles and stigma. Judd shares his personal story of being diagnosed in the 90s - and the isolation he faced not "fitting in."

We talk about the importance of support systems, vulnerability, and giving yourself patience on the journey. Judd offers sage advice for those newly diagnosed, like finding an ADHD-informed therapist, researching resources, and accepting that ADHD is just one part of who you are.

The conversation explores how our thoughts shape our reality when it comes to using ADHD as an excuse versus navigating challenges. Judd encourages us to focus on hope growth and surrounding ourselves with people who lift us up. 

Tune in for an inspiring reminder you have so much more to offer the world! 

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Transcript

 Today we are thrilled to have Judd Groden, licensed clinical social worker from New York specializing in ADHD. With a master's degree in social work and over six years of clinical experience, Judd combines his professional expertise with his personal journey of managing ADHD  for over 30 years.  He's passionate about empowering others to embrace their ADHD and achieve their dreams. 

A member of CHADD and the Men's ADHD Support Group, Judd's mission is to create a lasting, positive impact in the lives of those he works with. Judd, thanks for coming on, buddy.  

Pleasure to be here, Marc. 

I'm super excited to chat with you.

All right, so I want to start off with something that really stood out with me in this bio that you got here,  and it's that you have been managing your ADHD for over 30 years. Yes, sir. That tells me that you were diagnosed with ADHD back in the 90s. Yes, sir.  What's that like?  

Interesting. It definitely was an experience.

So the story, beginning where it starts, because I was even a  little kid before I even knew any of this stuff happened.  My teacher came to my mother and said to her that you have to get him tested or else you're going to leave him back. So it's either I'm going to be left back or I was going to be tested for this.

Then I got tested for it. Then it was either I was going to be on medication or I was going to be having to be left back or wouldn't be able to do that stuff.  So then I was on the wonder drug of Ritalin in the beginning of time, which in the 90s was the hit drug for ADHD for that type of stuff.

So at that point when I started it, I was in special education. I was in a self contained classroom. I was, with other individuals there. And it was an interesting experience because. The more I remember growing up, it felt really weird because I didn't feel like I was belonging in that type of place because I didn't, I'm not, I didn't feel like I felt like I was not,, I'm not at that level.

I'm better than that level, not trying to be better, but I know that I have more to offer that I have ability to be able to do more things and that I can do more, I can be more, that I'm not just that person.  So I went through that process of having OT, PT, speech, all those different services available to me.

My mom was very proactive for me, which was a very positive thing. She was very much somebody that was a strong advocate for me to do that. I got an IEP, which is basically they gave me extra time on tests and they gave me, all those different other services available to me. 

And then over time, about first or second grade, I had went to inclusionary, which was having somebody there that was able to work with me on those type of different things. I was in those kind of classes with more regular classes that were there. But it was not specialized.

It had more,  support  and then over time I had a inclusionary teacher that helped me get an agenda book planned out the way it should be. So I had a planner there agenda book there and I basically worked on it with her, which was probably one of the more altering changes in my childhood.

Because when I got more organized with that and being able to use a planner and agenda book as like basically my Bible, then it became where I can be structured in my day and know what I needed to do every day that I had a plan. I had a structure. I used it like it was my religion. And then after that, when I started doing that,  in about 5th grade, I had an opportunity to be able to be in a regular class because teacher that I had events.

To be passed away in that year. That was to be for my inclusionary teacher. So the options where I had to go into regular class where I was going to be more of a special education class. So my mom and me talked about it and we decided to take the more challenging situation, the challenging route to do. 

And it was an interesting doing being going from all that type of place back to that type of location. being back in that environment,  which was a challenge  to be able to do that transition.  And then about sixth grade, I got into being in all regular classes and I was set with my planner and everything like that.

And then after that, I started at some point, I, got rid of the OT, PT, speech, all those things over time to be in regular classes while I was about in sixth grade. And then from then on, I started to have some, I went from there. I've got, my average was, I was doing really well as a student.

I had some honors classes involved in there too.  And I really excelled.  But it also had an impact on when you go to group with the different people that you're having that regular normalized because then you go in there and you feel like you don't fit in like you belong there either.

Because you feel like there's something different about there. Because the other part you feel like, you feel like there's, it's like they treat you differently, like you're something off. You know what I mean? Like there's something off about you like they have it, but they know that there's something off about you, but they don't really know what it is.

You feel that feeling in you like there's something off and you  know what's going on., so it caused me to have a little bit of significantly social issues, because I was doing well in school, but my social affection of all that stuff, being able to recognize social cues, being able to deal with socialization, having those type of things, probably having some type of autistic tendencies as well, wasn't characterized where they gave me enough, where it was enough to get a diagnosis, but it was, there were characteristics along the way that had that, and those type of things  caused me, as long as I was having the ADHD, having emotional issues of crying and things like that, Easy target for bullying  caused me a lot of emotional struggle and a lot of getting bullied over time for sure  what it put me in a lot of emotional struggle and depression type of struggle of being able to deal with all those things that come along with that, I was bullied heavily.

So it was one of those things where I did well in school, but I also suffered the social situation as well. So it changes the dynamic over time, you realize over time about how ADHD manifests itself in different ways.  And it really didn't hit me until I got older and learned about this more about how ADHD affects the socialization aspects and how all those different pieces of the spectrum qualities, all those things together, create a more  diverse situation by diverse tendency of doing that stuff. 

Definitely the thing was, the tendency is definitely, it happens is that you  since it's not a characterized diagnosis, it wasn't something that I could point to and say this was what it was. But it definitely had an impact because I had the awareness of knowing because I had enough awareness to know that I was not. 

not unaware of how people were treating me,  but I also had difficulty being able to understand how to be able to recognize how to be able to socially act appropriate, such as raising my hand when every time there was a question, I would raise my hand because I knew the answer. So I thought raising my question, I had the answer.

I knew the answer. I raised my hand that I did that a lot of time. Teachers love me for that. But I didn't realize doing that all the time was not a positive benefit for me to be able to be socially engaged with everybody else around me, because that's not normally what you would do in a social situation.

You have to be more engaged with that. But I didn't recognize that. I just thought, I know answer. I'll raise hand. Teacher will like me. I'll be happy. I'll do better in participation in class. So yay for me.  But that did not help my,  M. O. Being able to have emotion and being able to have emotion happen and then just bursting out and going to cry when I was younger, not really recognizing that, like I was having emotional issues, but recognizing, Oh my God, now people are looking at me like this. So now there's something wrong with me. So what's wrong with me? Because they're, I feel like I'm being judged, all that stuff happens.

And then they easily target you as a male, for being in those times  acting like you're gay, or, or talking about you being those different things, because you're acting differently with that you're emotional, you don't fit in with how you're being able to. Socially interact with other people.

I closed myself off  'cause I then I'd interact talking to people and it, it'd be more I would just be like trying to fit in and being able, how do I talk to these people because I'm not sure how to talk the way that people would be able to normally talk in those situations.

Like, I don't know what I'm saying is correct or wrong, because, having emotional issues and being a little bit awkward looking around me, I didn't really like, it was not really like, like what? Is right or wrong to do.  And just the services, we're out there. We're not the best in school and I was in  therapy.

I did get a lot of therapy and treatment when I was younger, but the options for ADHD with that, it was  more focused on anxiety and depression.  Less about the other options that were there,  which one of those things. But, I did have a lot of  help with my mom was doing accountability at my house doing homework.

When I got there, come up with strategies for being able to deal with the homework that I had to deal with, able to focus on what I needed to do for the tasks that I had.  And by coming up with those tools in place, that really  set me up for success in the academic world.  So I think with ADHD, a lot of it was they didn't really, ADHD and the autism spectrum, they really didn't have an understanding of the other aspects that come along with ADHD.

The emotional issues, being able to handle your emotions, especially being able,  having autistic tendencies of not being able to know how to deal with your emotions and how you deal with that. How do you interact with other people that are there? Because you understand what's going on but you're not quite clear on how things are happening.

So it becomes a whole mishmash of different things.   Which definitely did a number of my self esteem, but it didn't stop me from being able to be successful in school. I still was able,  I was depressed. I was really down about myself.  I've had thoughts about what's the point of living if I'm going to be like this, right? 

Cause it's going to suck every day and I'm going to go to school and it's going to be like this horrible situation for me. The one thing that kept me going was the fact that I'm going to get out of there and I'm going to be successful and I'm going to be able to not have this happen to anybody else.

I'm not going to have people be able to have it where it. It doesn't become more. It's something that's Problematic that it's something that you can use to be able to be successful, that you can be able to be emotional. You can be able to do those things. You can still be able to overcome adversity and be able to be successful.

 And then I went to college and then when I went to college there, I still struggled being able to try to fit in with socially, I'd be interested in a girl, look at them and try to be able to figure out how am I going to talk to them? I just stand and watch away there. So I'm afraid I'm going to come off as awkward or weird or different or what's going to happen or people are going to look at me differently because I talk differently.

I act differently. I have different experience and how I'm being able to respond. So then I get in my head about that stuff for years, which still happen. From school to school to school, eventually got my degree and degree in history because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do because I wasn't clear how things were going.

And then over time, I came to a place so that purpose is being able to help other people and  got involved  in mental health and social work. I had a mentor that I found identified with because he seemed to be different, but he was able to still be with me.  Be successful.

I think really having that mentor there gave me a chance to be able to see I had people that were there.  Thankfully I had mentors had people that I saw that were able to be successful and being able to be emotional or be the type of personality that I had.  And a lot of similarities and still be successful in what they did. 

Which kind of gave me,  advice, I was part of a group that was called chill and Stony Brook University, where we had gave outreach to suicide prevention  and doing that stuff got me more involved with that. And then I got more involved. I got my master's degree doing a social work. 

And then I really started doing more individual therapy when I was out in the field, doing more things, being more involved with that. And that's really where I got to feel like I found more of my calling and dealing with those individuals. I spent a lot of time working with.  Adolescents and younger individuals and a little bit even older and just seeing the kind of struggles and things that happen with all different varying mental health diagnosis and especially I got a lot of kids with ADHD and a lot of adults with ADHD and really spent a lot of time doing that in my,  training, because I'm a male and I have young things and most of the males that are coming in there young, a lot of them coming with diagnosis  when they're kids with ADHD.

And it really gave me insight into,  number one, the research I did going, I've been to chat conferences, I've been involved in all those different types of things and going there and seeing the growth of how it comes from the beginning where they didn't even talk about adult ADHD, they didn't even think of it being anything other than just the school diagnosis to now having all those different things now that are there with it. 

Just being able to know that I had the tools to be able to be successful with that, being able to overcome the adversity of being depressed, being down about who I was and all those different types of things. Not being proud of who I was, feeling down, feeling like I was alone, feeling like I was by myself and no one was there to protect me or no one had my back.

So it was a lonely type of feeling for a very long time.  But over time, I'm still able to be able to overcome and still be able to push myself at this point in time, working with a therapist, working with a psychiatrist, being more on top of those different types of things and getting different supports around me.

To come to a point where I'm at a place where I'm more focused on being able to give back to that community that was supportive of me. And be able to teach people, not just from other teachers that I've had and also learn from others, being able to overcome  these things around us, and not let it be something  that is something that could stop us, it's just something to be able to learn from and to experience.

And as much as it's a challenging, difficult situation that I've been through, because it's been a lot of hard road of dealing with all that stuff, of being isolated socially, and going in different directions with that. It taught me a lot of being able to how to be perseverance and how to deal with stuff.

Definitely. 

So, one of the things that we preach a lot in the Men's ADHD Support Group, first of all, we refrain from the message of ADHD is a gift but that's not something that we're about like ADHD, the science is pretty clear, Russell Barkley has extensive work on this that ADHD is something that if we don't take it seriously, it can be pretty detrimental to our lives, and  learning to navigate it can be quite a challenge.

So one of the things that we always talk about here is that, although it will be a challenge.  It is significantly better when you take on this type of challenge with a support system, right? So,  what we're curious about is how important was it to you to have the support of your mother, your mentor, and the support groups that you've been in? 

It was significant. Having somebody give me support to be able to give me tools of being able to use,  a planner to be able to organize my days with life changing and life altering for me.  The ability to have my mom advocate for me and not. Hold me back, but also being able to challenge me to push me forward and not give it as a diagnosis of something that would stop me, but knowing that I was intelligent enough to be able to handle it because I knew that I was not about these diagnosis.

It was more about the fact that as a person that I was smart enough and capable enough to figure out how to be able to find a way to be able to manage these things  and giving me the confidence to stuff that didn't be able to have that support to know that they believe in me.  Having my mentor talked to me there when I was in my college setting being telling me that

you can do this, that,  that despite of all this stuff, you can be emotional, you can be that type of person that's emotional and different, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't stop you from being successful.  And those type of mentors are  saying you know what, it's okay to  be who you are really set me up for being a little bit more comfortable with myself and especially more recently, being more involved with the community, talking to you guys, other people in the support group  talking to people, involved with my therapist now and other people that are involved with now, it's become more and more of a thing of, of being out there and seeing it because I've put myself out there and more experiences.

And by doing that, by having people encourage me to do that, having,  my family support me doing that, having my mentor do that for me, having my family, having my therapist, having these everybody else here around me to encourage to do that, that is eye open to me, number one, to have the tools that are there with me that I've had in place, but also being able to have real world thing and knowing that if I can play with these tools in the real world, That is not the diagnosis that really changes or anything, it's really being able to use the tools and play with the tools that you have to be able to figure out what works best for you in those situations.

That's what I see with that type of stuff.  

Yeah, no doubt. It makes a big difference, especially having someone to talk to. I mean, the thing is with those of us with ADHD is like,  Especially throw us being men on top of it, we're taught throughout our whole lives that having space for vulnerability, speaking about our problems are things that make us less of a man.

And what we find is that leads to a lifestyle of us bottling up our emotions, pretending as if our problems don't exist, and then bam, a divorce happens. Bam, we lose our jobs, we're really, really struggling. And then we find ourselves in a space where we almost desperately need a support system. So I completely agree with what you said as far as how that relates to me and love it.

Now  putting ourselves in the shoes of our listeners. So say we have somebody who was like you, like super  ADHD in 1993 and they didn't have The support systems  that's something that you were able to find. What would you say to somebody  who's never had that type of support system in place?

Like, how could they find that type of support? 

I would say this, right? It's looking for resources, either going on Psychology Today, or being part of looking at Chad, or using the ADT support group, or reaching out to resources within The different types of communities that have individuals that have ADHD in general that are experts that are in that field, being able to reach out to those individuals, and being able to look at for themselves, what kind of resources that they can be able to do, because the thing is, as stuff that we have with ADHD  as much as We have those things that may cause us the different symptoms that have it within there.

We also have incredibly good tools of being able to find resources and research and spend a lot of time looking into information. That's one of our things that we do. So being able to look into the tools of how You know, there's different experts in the field, there's people that, I know individuals here that will do research on being able to look on their own for books, people that have things like Hollowell and being look at stuff like Barkley and being at those individuals that have the type of stuff that have that insight of being able to how do you able to deal with things, as well as there's always individuals either at college campuses or schools or things like that, being able to find people that you can talk to being able to find people that you can open up to.

Thank you. And the more people that you try to be able to find other individuals, the more opportunities you put yourself out there, as painful as it is, because let me tell you, even having those experiences and those people around me there, it still took me a very long time to be more comfortable even talking about the social issues I had around me.

Being around more people, the more exposure you have around people, really gives you the more support system of being able to know that there's support out there for you, because I think that's a little bit of being a vulnerability. Which is really, really challenging for a lot of us, especially with having the emotional ality that we have in the men with ADHD, men in general that are emotional, being able to have those type of things in the society, how it treats us,   how we feel in society about that stuff.

It's very challenging for us to do that. But the more You have an opportunity to see people around you that you feel around you that you have a better shot of being able to be comfortable with the more people you spend time around you, the better sense you have that you're not alone, that you have those people around you that aren't that type of way, but you have to give yourself a chance.

So if you give yourself a little bit of opportunity and say you know what I could try and just give try it. Because listen, I know I spent a lot of time holding back and hiding from those type of things and not wanting to experience and that stuff and, being able to  hold myself back and  not thinking that I could do this stuff and not believing that I could do this stuff and telling myself a story over and over and over again about how I couldn't do this stuff and the reasons why.

But the more I went out, the more I  engaged in doing small little things,  going on meetup and going on a group there to socialize. Just starting with that and dipping my feet in that and doing an improv class and dipping my feet in that. Taking my time doing it step by step by step to get to a place now where I'm comfortable enough having a podcast and talking about this stuff with it because I could have told you five years ago if I had this discussion now there would be no way I thought it would have been here.

So, it's through that experience of giving ourselves patience, being able to give ourselves opportunities to be able to reach out to different types of people, because if we put ourselves in situations where we're in. Areas of like mind things, people that are doing things that are more artistic because people look on our area.

We're very artistic individuals. We'd like to be able to have involved in those different types of things, people that have common interests as us, people that have things that have is the thing is those people, you'll be able to talk to, you'll be able to have more of an open conversation with. And it doesn't have to be perfect.

It doesn't have to be awesome. It does have to be able to get yourself out there.  And I still struggle with this being able to get myself out there versus what am I getting out of it? I'm not getting what I want out of it. What is my outcome? Blah, blah.  But the bottom line at the end of the day is if we got ourselves out there into the world and just experience other people, we find that we're able to find individuals that give us that mentor, give us that experience, being able to be out there as painful as it may be, even if you don't have to open up yourself completely, but just being out there trying activities.

And also being able to look into research with being able to find different information that you could have out there for ADHD that's now out there. Because if I had the information now that I have out there now, when I had it in 1995,  it'd be a whole different world for me. So, but, at this point in time, those resources are out there, that things are available.

And being able to just, the thing is this right, for us, just being able to give yourself just one step of doing it. Not trying to jump ourselves to do everything else, because we love to go from 0 to 60, we love to do all that stuff. But just taking yourself, giving yourself a shot. If you give yourself a chance, then you can see how successful you can be.

But that kind of stuff, being able to give yourself an opportunity to have a little bit, because sometimes you're going to need to be a little bit vulnerable. And the only way you're going to be successful, that is being a little bit vulnerable. It's part of why the support group is so important because it's about practicing vulnerability, because that's the key to making connections with people on a real level to be able to improve yourself and have that support system in place. 

Yeah, no doubt. 100%. Yeah, you're, you are  on top of everything you mentioned, you're also a member of our community. And you have seen much of what our communities engagement is like the things that are talked about within the group, you've been in online in person meetings. Yeah. And one thing that really caught my eye when talking to you is that you have a strong eye  for recognizing when we're using our ADHD as an excuse. 

Versus when our ADHD is actually causing something. Can you talk to me a little bit about that?  

Sure, of course. So, a lot of the things that are out there is, for instance, let's say you do a task, right? And since if clients in general and different people that I've worked with, you do a task, right?

And you think because you're not doing it a certain way that you can't do it. Or because because it's not done like the way everybody else does it, that means that you can't do it because you're not doing it the way everybody else is doing it, or you're not doing it because it's too much time, you're doing it more time than you need to have it to be, or that it's not done the way that everybody else is doing it, or why am I doing it this way, how come it's taking me more time than other people, why I'm getting frustrated with this means I can't do this because that means that I'm not going to be able to calm myself down and deal with it, or, I have a paper due, right, and I'm doing a paper, right, but It's too much time.

It's too much effort. I'm not going to be able to focus on this. I'm not going to be able to do this because it's going to be overwhelming for me. So, you know what? I'll go and I'll be able to, go watch something on YouTube. Or be able to, well, TikTok videos or doing other stuff there. And then, oh my god, I don't have enough time.

You know what? I can't do this because I don't have enough time. I never did this because I never finished all this stuff. So that means I can't finish it. And that narrative kind of continues along the path,  and then there becomes other things, looking at at people and be able to judge yourself against others.

One of those bigger things, being able to think that because you take longer to do stuff that it means that you can't do it because those type of things of how you're dealing with things are how you have the one we love to focus on the one thing. That we're not good at and hammer it home for all the excuses about why we can't do it.

Because we look at everything else that we'll do that's positive and we'll just look at the one thing and we'll just completely dump truck ourselves with all that stuff that we're not doing. And it's because,  we didn't have, we had things that happened in school that weren't able to be able to do that stuff.

We're not able to be able to do that now because we had things that happened to us in the past. So that means that we're not going to be able to do anything now about it. Because we had all those things that stunted our growth, so we can't do it now because we're too old, we're too young, it's too slow, it's too fast, it's too much energy, it's not enough energy, I'm too tired, it's too... 

all those type of things.  Are things that we go up a lot about feeling. We focus on the feeling of being the aspect of feeling is what drives our ability to do things. And if we feel like it's not the right thing for us to do, we feel like we're not able to do it. Then we think that we can't do it.

And the thing is, it's about doing when you do the access of actually trying the activity and putting yourself in the situation of actually trying the activity, then you could actually learn if you actually can do the activity.  We love to talk around the issue, talk about the issue, instead of being able to take it to task.

That's interesting.  

So what do you say to  the person that  has probably has really good intentions?  But they are on the more impulsive side when it comes to their ADHD and they've behaved in ways that are pretty toxic and made us say, well, I have ADHD. That's just how I am.  What do you say to that person?

I say we have things that may cause us challenges, but it doesn't mean that we can't be able to improve about how we deal with the situations, we can't always can we can't always sometimes we're going to have impulses and sometimes those things are going to happen, but it's about being aware of how can I be able to manage those things, how can I be able to let's say exercise to be able to get the edge off of the energy that I have within me to feel like I have to lash out at other individuals? How can I be able to give myself an opportunity either to meditate or be able to give myself time to process or calm down being able to manage those things? And if I do have those things, giving myself patience to be able to understand that sometimes we're not perfect with this stuff.

Sometimes I'm still learning how to be a deal with this stuff. And part of who we are is we're going to have part of these things are going to happen with us  forever. It's not going to be something that ever goes away. It's coming to acceptance that those things are going to always be there for us. And if you accept that those things are there instead of fighting how you feel and fighting the impulses that are there. 

There's always been a better opportunity for us to not be able to get into those five fights with ourselves with that. And be able to give ourselves a pause and a breath. Being able to know that if you don't fight it. It makes it less problematic, but when we fight it is when we get angry at things and it becomes more problematic for us because we don't want to have those things happen to us.

So when we get angry about the fact that we have these toxic traits and we have these things that happen to us and think that they become toxic traits, they're just part of who we are, what we have as impulses. It doesn't mean that we can be able to change our relationship to how they happen and who we are as a person and by engaging activities that be able to engage, get our impulsive activity out by exercising, by doing physical activity, whether people being even knowledge and,  I've been involved in kickball or dodgeball or other type of sporting events.

You can be able to be physically involved in, then you become more involved in the activities and less involved in your head about worrying about how what you say or what you think or what you feel, because then you're more engaged and you're not in your head as much. The more activity we do, the less we try to wonder about all these different types of things in our head, or try to focus on all the impulsive things that we may or may not do,  because the more we  just be able to  come to terms with the fact that we, which is not easy.

Listen, I know it's not easy. These are not easy things to do. I've been there. I've seen it. I know.  The only thing to do is being able to understand that you're going to have, sometimes you're going to have these impulses.  But changing your relationship to how they are and what happens within them, and being able to,  being able to try to use tools, being able to talk to a psychiatrist to be able to help you with medication, being able to talk to a therapist to be able to organize that type of stuff, being able to have either an ADHD coach or somebody helped you to organize with different type of things.

The thing is, you have those tools around you, it will help manage it, it's not going to ever go away. It's not going to be one of those things that disappears, but it's changing your relationship to it and changing your relationship to the things that go are part of who you are, because when you fight it.

And I've seen this with many clients when you fight it, it makes it even harder to be able to deal with it and that's when it comes out and it becomes even more impulsive and more things like that. And the less you fight it, the more you understand that it's part of who you are. The less problematic it will be in your life.

Yeah, 100%. And what I always speak on is that there's ways to hold yourself accountable  that are healthy and don't involve something like self sabotage, which many of us fall into. Yes. So I am a big, there's two different conversations that we can have here. It's like, say a person with ADHD committed to a 15 day exercise challenge where you go every morning and they'll do this exercise first thing in the morning.

Day number 11 comes around and they fall off on it. They completely forgot about it. They were inconsistent with it.  The typical conversation is  Like, man, I have fallen off on this, my teachers are right, I am super lazy, I can't do anything, I'm the worst person ever, yadda yadda yadda.  When,  in actuality, and to your point, this is hard, right, because we have years and years of self sabotage and these words that people have told us that we're not enough, we have years and years of that in our head. 

But, in actuality, the conversation that we benefit from is,  this has happened for me, I was impulsive again, I was late again, I slipped up on this. The good news is that I'm not defined by it. There are many other strengths and wins that I bring to the table.  Now, what can I learn from this situation to prevent it from happening again or make it happen less? 

When we start to have those type of conversations, that's when things start to change for us. And what I love about what you're saying is that it's such an affirmation of like, yes, this is hard.  But the good news is, is that you can find a way to work around it. And with the right support systems, that's going to be really likely to happen. 

And many people with ADHD need to know that it's like, when you get diagnosed with ADHD, it's almost like there needs to be a message of, this is what you're good at, this is where you struggle.  And. You can still win. You just need to learn what you can do to get on the other side. I just wish more people with ADHD knew that.

So I really, really love what you had to say there. bAsed on our conversation that we had the other day, you're in a space where you're extremely passionate about serving those with ADHD and providing more value to the community.  Where do 

you see yourself stepping in here? I see myself stepping in to number one, being an advocate for individuals that have ADHD, being able to educate, being able to provide resources, being able to  promote awareness of not just being a diagnosis, but being aware of what things you have at work, what things you have that are challenges.

And being able to promote that there is positivity towards it and promote that they're all different aspects of who you have as a person that doesn't define you as who you are, doesn't define you as a person. And by being able to see the different actual aspects of what you have within the part of having a diagnosis, which doesn't really define who you are, but what those pieces actually mean in theory, what are those things actually are, what actually means in the reality of things, because we're very, very good.

At being able to take things and make it into a fantasy world about stuff and go into a fantasy about how things are and what this actually means what this could mean for me when this happens. But the thing is for me, I love to be able to be more specific, more concrete, more things for me, what I see in my journey with this stuff is being able to. 

Bring things down to a level of being able to communicate to people about being able to how to be concrete, how to be able to be more structured in your life and being able to have different tools and using different things and not being afraid of trying different things to be able to find the right tools that work for you.

Because some tools may work for us in one way, someone with having these issues, sometimes people who may not work for others. But the thing is, the more tools you provide, the more options you give, the more opportunities you'll be able to see that there are out there, the better chance you have of being successful.

And for me, what I see as being able to show that there are those tools available, that there are those things around us, and that these things don't define us as a person. These things don't define us as a human being. They just are part of who we are, and they're different aspects of who we are, just like any other person would have.

It's just being able to be able to have different challenges like we all have in life and being able to not change a relationship to having what ADHD is as far as it being just a part of who we are as a person and not as a diagnosis, not as a label, not as a thing that we've been put on for our entire life to have because we get that label put on us and it feels like something on our forehead that we have when we walk into the room and being aware of those different aspects of that part of who we are doesn't define us as a person of who we are.

And we can be able to find tools and find success stories and find success within ourselves to be able to create a better positive narrative, to be successful individuals, to lift each other up and be something that can be more than anything else that we can think we can be. Because we are extremely passionate, positive individuals that can be able to make great successes in this world if we just believe in ourselves.

I love it, man. I love it.  Now you touched on this earlier, but  Just to get a crystal clear explanation here. So somebody who is listening right now and they just got a diagnosis of, I don't know, combined type ADHD or something like that, but it's an ADHD diagnosis, they're struggling in their life  and like, okay, I know all this information about myself. 

What's my next step? What do I do next? 

First thing I would definitely  is see, if you know these things about yourself, what kind of tools and what kind of help that you may need, because everybody else may need for tools differently. Being able to look in the different resources of what type of mental health providing if you can, if you want to be able to go down that route, if you're not ready to, I'm not saying to go do it because there is no point in forcing anybody that doesn't want to get mental health treatment to force them to go do it because they were not going to be want to be successful in it.

And it's not worth it to be able to do that. So I'd say it's about being able to see where you're at and see where you're at as far as level of readiness to be able to make changes, being able to know that you have this information available to you and being, if you want to try to make changes, what things you can do, you can go to, you can go to,  definitely strongly encourage finding a good therapist for you to be able to work with stuff, being able to find a psychiatrist that be able to actually gives you a proper understanding of what ADHD diagnoses are.

what medications are actually available and being aware of treating you like an individual and not someone with a diagnosis. Finding a therapist that understands about what it's like to have ADHD, being able to be aware of that they know the journals that are around it. Being aware to be able to know that there's ability out there to find people that can find specific tools for you to be successful when you're ready to take those steps to do that, because if you're not ready, it's going to be a challenge for you to go there and feel like you're going to be, it has to be ready and you can be there to talk.

But it's about giving yourself patience and grace and doing all these things. That's the biggest thing I would take away from this stuff, is being patient and being able to use the resources. If you need an ADHD coach, looking into seeing those options of what's available to you there for you, what's available to you for therapy out there.

Being able to know and just taking a chance and seeing what those things are, and looking into that stuff and just giving yourself an opportunity to do that. Or being able to  interact with other people in general.  Because I think the more stuff you do, and the more interactions you have with people, the more you'll see that it'll be more accepting of who, for who you are.

And I think for us, we  don't think about how special we are in the world, because we think that we are treated a certain way by the world, and that this world a certain way, and how we've acted in the world   is how things are. But I think that by being able to find resources, And looking into the research of being able to look at psychology today, look at Attitude Magazine, look at Chad, look at all those different things that have available to us.

And being able to, if you've had done all that research, actually applying it to being able to look into a psychiatrist if you feel medication would be a positive step for you. Definitely involving somebody with a therapist that would be more specialized and more aware of having ADHD and dealing with ADHD.

Finding an ADHD coach if you feel like you need that more specialized support available to you.  But being able also to find resources around you or find different type of social environments there that are something that you enjoy that are more open to different type of experiences. Because those things will gateway you to understanding that you don't have, that's not something wrong with you with this diagnosis.

It's not something wrong with you for who you are as this person. Because the most important thing I would say about this stuff is finding out that there's nothing wrong with you for what you have as a diagnosis.  Nothing wrong with you for what this part is. Because if there's anything else that I would take, anyone take away from any of this conversation, there's nothing wrong with being who you are.

Nothing wrong for being the things that you have about you. It's just a part of who you are. And the more you give yourself an opportunity to just accept that you give yourself opportunities to chances to see that you're not, that's not the world. You're not going to understand that unless you actually see it out in the world, but giving yourself that opportunity  to see what readiness level you are.

And just by reaching out to those different resources and seeing what's available. And you can choose whichever step you're ready to do, because if you're not ready to do it, I would not force anyone to do it because then they won't be actually making the progress that they want to make, but being able to give yourself an opportunity to be successful is the most important thing.

Now,  just again, putting it into the perspective of a listener, of course. What if I'm at a place where  I, I have a doctor and I have a therapist,  or therapist,  and they completely dismiss ADHD. They don't even think it's a big deal, just get over it, just apply yourself, those are the type of things that they say to me. 

What do you say to them?  I say that you need to find a different therapist or a different person to be able to connect with you.  Because there's other therapists, there's other psychiatrists out there, by not sticking yourself to one individual therapist or psychiatrist.  Because the thing  is that number one, you have to find somebody that can mesh this with you and connects with you and to also make sure that you advocate for yourself when you're in these discussions with these people so that they know where you stand.

Because if you do not advocate for them, you do not talk about where you're at with that stuff.  If you don't feel like you're heard, you better make say that you. Hear that you're loud and proud about what you are and what you want. Because if you don't tell people what you want, if you don't tell your therapist what you need, you don't tell your psychiatrist what they need.

They're never gonna know they're not mind readers. They're not gonna be aware of it. So when you advocate for yourself with that, then you get to really see if these people actually are helpful for you or they're not. And if you talk to them and you see that they're not that person for you, and you go to somebody else and you have those conversations with them, 'cause the more you have a conversation with 'em about who you are and what things that you're looking for, and if they don't understand, telling them that they don't, you know what is going on there.

Does this actually Drive what actually you're talking about with me. It doesn't representate with me.  And then if you feel like that's the case and you feel like you're talking to them and they don't get anywhere, going to other play people to be able to find that connection and be able to talk to them about it.

But I also wouldn't jump from person to person without having that conversation about it directly to them because it doesn't help you being able to find a good therapist or psychiatrist if you're not open and honest with them or yourself because then you're not going to find somebody that messes with you about who you really need, who you really want. 

So Judd, this has been really great chatting with you. Now, obviously, as many of our members struggle and you've already given so many great gems to our community here.  But what's one final thought that you'd like to share with our.

Our community members who are struggling with their ADHD. They don't know what to do with their lives. What do you say to them?  

I say that do not lose hope in who you are and do not lose hope in the things that you're passionate about and care about. There are people out there that are like you. There are people out there that are there, out there in the world.

But the only way to see that is being able to be able to reach out in the world and be able to see that stuff. Sometimes you're not going to see it within yourself. And the only way you're going to see that is being able to go out there and be able to see that you do have value and you do have things to the world, because in your own head, you're not going to know that unless you see the world and be out of the world.

So, the thing is, is that there are people out there, but you have to be able to go out and give yourself a shot to see it because if you don't give yourself an opportunity, then you'll never know.  So to give yourself an opportunity to be successful, and it's not a death sentence, it doesn't give you any chance, and I've  been down the road of being able to try multiple different things and being able to figure out what kind of job I wanted to have before I figured out what I actually wanted to have.

Life is a journey. It's a process. We're not all going to find out all the answers right away, and everybody is not going to know the right answers all the time, or what the right answer is. It's not always about what the right answer is, it's about finding what's the best fit for you, and being aware that you have your own individual journey.

And not just somebody else's journey that's there. It doesn't mean that your journey is lesser or better or worse than anybody else. But the more opportunities you have to figure out who you are, the better chance you have of being able to be better, be feel better about yourself, about the world, and be understanding that you are a valuable person in this world.

And you do have something to offer.

That's awesome, man.  I appreciate it. I can also say that Judd practices what he preaches here. The other day, I was having a bit of a rough day, and immediately, Judd was  sliding into my DMs, checking in on me, holding me accountable to not let myself define.  A rough moment as the rest of my day.

And,  that's a large part of what navigating ADHD is, right? Having those types of friendships, those people that can lift you up when you're down I appreciate that about you.  Now anybody who's listening to you and loving what you said and wants to learn more about you and your work or wants to connect with you. Where can they find you?  

So I'm on psychology today. I'm also, I also have an email address, juddgrodenlcsw@gmail. com.  You can be able to reach out to me on those different locations, be able to give me an email  and I'll definitely reach out to you guys and be able to coordinate whatever type of services that you may need or help that you may have, or if you want therapeutic services, either for me or some other guidance or somewhere else, I'll be able to help give that connection to be able to do that.

So, that's where I would be, and that's what I would do, and  being able to give you that type of insight and guidance, and if I can be able to provide that, be able to coordinate it to get you to the right place,  either through me or somebody else, I want people to be successful in this world. 

And if I can't, through the resources, being able to try to reach out and be able to provide those resources, because resources are what's crucial for all of us, and that's the most important thing. So, if I can help out with that, as a therapist myself, I'd be more than willing to do work with somebody, but I want to make sure people find the right fit for them and be able to find what works best for them, if nothing, not me.

It's awesome.  

Love it, man. All right. well, this is really fun chatting with you and,  thank you for coming on our podcast today. My pleasure..