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Hello and welcome to another

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episode of the Tyndale House podcast in our series on names.

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And in this episode, I'm delighted to be joined by Dr Steve Walton

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to talk about names in the New Testament, specifically in the book of Acts.

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Hi, Steve. Welcome. Thank you for joining us.

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Thank you. It's good to be here.

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You're a very regular visitor to Tyndale House.

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Why do you keep coming here?

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And what are you doing here?

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I first came here in 1977.

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T: That's quite a long time ago S: when I was an undergraduate,

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but I keep coming

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because I'm working on a big, long term project on the book of Acts.

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So I'm writing a major commentary for the Word Biblical Commentary,

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and that's why I keep coming,

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because you have lots of books here and they’re

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the books I need to read, and especially you've got everything,

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particularly in French and German,

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which are not generally easily accessible.

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Okay. Right.

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So where are you the rest of the time?

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Where are you based? What do you do?

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Home is Loughborough.

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I, my wife and I belong to Emmanuel Church in Loughborough,

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where she's Associate Rector and I work two days a week

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for Trinity College, Bristol, as a supervisor of doctoral students.

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So I've got about nine at the moment

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who I'm working with

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and I’m not physically in Bristol very often,

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but I don't need to be because my doctoral students are dotted all over the world.

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and we can talk on the internet.

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Yeah. Yeah. Great.

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How long have you been working on Acts?

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Well, my

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I started thinking about Acts in 1977,

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My first term at Cambridge,

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Charlie Moule set me an essay on the major theological themes of Luke.

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And that got me into considering

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how Luke and Acts go together and specifically, it got me into a debate

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about how far the portrait of Paul in Acts is

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like the portrait of Paul in the letters.

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And that was what ultimately led to my PhD project in the,

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in the 90s . . . 80s and 90s.

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And then I got asked to write a commentary.

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S: So I guess the answer is a long time T: Right

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But you've not been working on Acts the whole of that that time.

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No, no, I've written a textbook on the Gospels and Acts with David

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Wenham. I dipped my toe in the water of

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Paul, occasionally. If you work in Acts, you end up in the Gospels via Luke

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and you end up in Paul

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S: inevitably. T: Yeah.

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So I range across the New Testament because of the focus on Acts.

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And where are you in that project for writing the Word Biblical Commentary?

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You'll be seeing the first volume on Acts 1—9 in October.

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Great

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And I'm in the middle of chapter

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16 at the moment, so I'm in Philippi.

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Very good.

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And dealing with the the events that go on in Philippi

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with Lydia, the, the girl who's possessed by a demon.

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And and then Paul and Silas being thrown into prison.

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So that's where I am at this very moment.

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Great. Is it going to be two volumes or three?

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Three, I'm afraid three.

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We were planning two

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but it then became too long

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when when you said you were, volume one was 1 to 9, I was wondering.

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Yeah.

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Yeah. Okay. Where will the next break come?

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S: After 19. T: Okay. Right.

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Yeah. That makes sense.

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Yeah.

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What have been the highlights of of working on that for you?

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I think it's been a growing understanding of

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how Acts is a narrative driven by God and God's action.

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And seeing that in place after place after place in the book of Acts.

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Now, I'm far from the first to notice this.

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My friend Beverley Gaventa’s little commentary on Acts sees this brilliantly.

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She and I had noticed it independently

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and then met at a conference and said, oh, I thought I was the only one.

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Which was kind of nice.

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But that discovery, I think, has been really significant

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because some people think Acts is a book about the Holy Spirit,

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but there's actually almost no mention of the Spirit in the last 25% of Acts.

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From 21 to 28.

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S: It's really, really striking T: Right

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S: So it’s . . . T: That's interesting.

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I've, I've, because I've heard it said so many times and I've said myself many times

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that we should talk about it as the Acts of the Holy Spirit

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not the acts of the apostles, but actually

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so you're you're saying, well, I think God's a bit bigger than that.

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Yeah, I'd say it's the acts of God.

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Yeah. Right. Okay.

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Yeah. That's good, I like that. Yeah, yeah.

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Very good, very good.

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We want to talk about names, particularly as we are doing in this,

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this series of podcast episodes.

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There's a lot of people mentioned in Acts from all sorts of backgrounds.

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So there's, there's a whole range of, of names that we encounter.

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What are some of the different backgrounds,

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language groups, kinds of names that that we encounter in Acts?

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Let me, let me give you two examples.

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One is Tabitha in Acts 9 who

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dies and Peter then goes and prays and she's raised from the dead.

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She's also called Dorcas.

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And Tabitha is a good Hebrew name.

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Dorcas is a Greek name.

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The two words both mean gazelle.

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Right now, that's suggests she's somebody who's known in

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both the Hebrew speaking, Aramaic

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speaking and Greek speaking communities.

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So she's known by those two names.

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So, so she's somebody who crosses boundaries.

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Which makes sense because Western Palestine on the coast

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was a multicultural area,

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and there were a good number of Romans around there.

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Who, who would, would

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have used the Greek name for her.

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S: A second one is Simon Peter, T: Right.

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Who in, in Aramaic is called Cephas.

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Yeah.

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And he's called that in Acts 15.

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When you have the major meeting at Jerusalem to decide

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about the admission of Gentiles. Yeah.

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And that means rock. Yeah.

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Jesus has called him Petros.

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Right.

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In Greek, which comes from the word Petra, which means rock.

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So he's got this, this nickname.

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But of course, in the gospel, he proves to be far from a rock.

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But in Acts, he's learned the lesson, and

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and he becomes the rock that Jesus has said he’ll be.

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Yes. Right. Yeah, yeah.

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So is Acts 15

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the only place he’s called Cephas?

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He's called that in Galatians as well.

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Okay.

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So he's called Cephas in, in Acts, in Galatians 2.

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Yeah.

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When, when Paul visits Jerusalem. Yeah.

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And they have a bit of a

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is that when

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T: Paul and Peter are having a contretemps in Galatia?

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No, well, the first bit of Galatians

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2:1–10, there's the agreement that,

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the Jewish believers based in Jerusalem will focus on Jewish mission,

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and Paul and Silas will focus on Gentile mission.

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Yeah, but then they have the bust up

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in Antioch in 2:11 onwards.

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Right.

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Because Peter, gives way to the, the group who want to separate

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from Gentile believers and to eat separately.

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Yes, because they want to keep Jewish kosher.

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T: Yeah. S: Over their food. T: Right.

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And so those are the only places where his Aramaic version....?

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S: Yes. T: Yeah. Interesting. S: Yeah.

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And and they're both places where there's a major Jewish issue at stake.

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Do we need to circumcise men who become believers?

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Do we need to keep Jewish food laws?

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Yeah.

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So do you think it would not have worked for

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Luke in Acts 15 and, Paul in Galatians

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to have used the Greek Petros rather than Cephas?

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S: I think we . . . T: Would people not have got the point?

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Well, the meaning would have still been clear,

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but it does rather suggest that the conversations that were going on

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Yeah.

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Tended to focus on his Jewish identity.

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Okay, right.

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because that was where the debate was.

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Yeah.

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That's very interesting.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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One of the major characters in Acts of course

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most people who've read Acts will have noticed that Paul comes up

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T: quite a few times, but when we meet him, he’s Saul S: Yes.

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And some people make a very big deal over

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the fact that from Acts 13 onwards,

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once he's been to,

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Cyprus and and encountered the proconsul Sergius Paulus,

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that from that point on, he's referred to as Paul, and therefore Paul,

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Saul has changed his name and it signifies something deep and meaningful

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which I've never been entirely convinced by.

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But I had no good reasons for that.

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And and then I came across something that you’d written

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Yeah.

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which gave some, some quite solid reasons why

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S: Yeah. T: that’s not a good

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T: reading S: Well, let's T: so tell us about this.

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Well, let's start with Roman names because because that's the key to this,

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names are really significant in the ancient world.

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And, we've seen examples of people with double names

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and there are quite a number around.

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We've got evidence from at least the second century B.C.

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of people with these double names.

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And we still use them today.

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Edson Arantes

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do Nascimento is better known as Pele.

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Okay. Yeah.

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So we still we still do that too.

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So are you talking about somebody who has a given name and a nickname

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T: or . . . S: Well, more than that, because a typical Roman would have three names

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They'd have a praenomen.

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And they were often taken from a very limited list

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there were only 18, in the late Roman Republic.

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So they're often abbreviated to just the letter M means Marcus G means Gaius.

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Right.

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Then you get,

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the cognomen,

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which was the name by which people were known. Slaves

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who became citizens would often adopt that name from their master.

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I see, right

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so as a slave they’d have just had one name.

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Right.

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But when they became a citizen, they'd acquire the other

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two names, which they generally took from their liberator.

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And then you got a third

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name, which is the family name, that you receive at birth.

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So, so in my case, that would be Walton.

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That's my family name. Now that,

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that set of three names is interesting.

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We only know Paul's cognomen.

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S: Paulos, T: Right, right.

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We don't know the other two, and we wish we did.

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T:Okay, S: but T: So just, sorry can I just just go back to the three,

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the three part names.

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So there's a,

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I've mentioned Sergius Paulus already.

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Yeah.

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So it seems he comes from the Antioch of Pisidia

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T: area, where there's an inscription to an L. Sergius Paulus S: Yes

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T: So the ‘L’ is this S: Lucius.

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Lucius, abbreviated one of these limited number of

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first names, and then he's got Sergius and Paulus

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is the family name?

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So Sergius is the family name. T: Oh Sergius is the

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Okay. Right, right.

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And Paulus is his, 

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Is the name by which he's known. Yeah.

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S: So his mum would call him Paulos T: Right. Okay. Yeah.

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Now, what

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happened with Jewish people was they often had a fourth name,

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which is called the signum or the supernomen.

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And that fourth name would be the name by which they were known within the family.

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S: Now it's, it's to do T: So  this is somebody who's a Roman,

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a Jewish person who’s a Roman citizen like Paul.

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Yeah. Right.

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And it's likely, therefore, that his family name was Saul.

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Interestingly, there are two spellings of it in the New Testament.

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There's Saoul, which is the letter by letter transcription

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from the Hebrew name of King Saul in the Old Testament.

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Yeah.

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And there’s Saulos which is the Greek form of the name,

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he's only called Saoul by Jesus in the appearance on the Damascus road.

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Saoul, Saoul, why are you persecuting me?

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So that suggests Jesus speaks to him in Aramaic or Hebrew.

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Right

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Whereas the rest of the time

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He's known as Saulos

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However, Saulos

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isn't, isn't a great name sometimes,

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because the Greek word for Saulos means effeminate

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S: Or conceited T: Right

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Yeah.

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And so if you were hanging around with Greek speakers,

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you might not want to be known as Saulos because of the connotations

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that went with the name.

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So that might explain,

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There’s a scholar called Leary who wrote an article arguing

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that that might be a factor in the shift to Paulus,

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to using his, his, his Roman name.

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Okay.

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But obviously put over into Greek.

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Right.

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So and so are you suggesting then that,

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Saulos is, is his or Saul is his Jewish name,

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but he or his family also has his family name of Paulos. S: Yes.

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It's not.

00:14:16:12 - 00:14:21:11
And the the similarity of sound is coincidental?

00:14:21:11 - 00:14:23:19
not coincidentally, but

00:14:23:19 - 00:14:26:06
T: But is S: I mean maybe his his family

00:14:26:06 - 00:14:29:14
chose the name Paolos because of that reason.

00:14:29:23 - 00:14:32:23
But the other thing is that Paolos means small.

00:14:33:06 - 00:14:36:05
Or, as we might say today, shorty.

00:14:36:05 - 00:14:37:16
T: Okay, right S: And maybe

00:14:37:16 - 00:14:39:24
S: he was a very small baby T: Right

00:14:39:24 - 00:14:41:13
When he was born. T: Yeah.

00:14:41:13 - 00:14:45:10
And therefore they said, okay, we'll call him Small, Paulos.

00:14:45:10 - 00:14:46:18
Right.

00:14:46:18 - 00:14:47:07
Which would

00:14:47:07 - 00:14:49:10
which would make a lot of sense. It's,

00:14:51:07 - 00:14:52:02
Saulos.

00:14:52:02 - 00:14:56:13
Saulos, Saoul is widely used among Jews.

00:14:57:15 - 00:15:01:07
We've got a number of uses among Diaspora Jews, T: Right,

00:15:01:14 - 00:15:05:07
in this period of that name in inscriptions.

00:15:06:15 - 00:15:10:17
But Paulos also seems to be pretty common T: right

00:15:11:09 - 00:15:14:10
among the, the Latin, Greek speaking world.

00:15:14:17 - 00:15:16:23
In Latin it would be Paulus.

00:15:16:23 - 00:15:18:10
Okay.

00:15:18:10 - 00:15:21:10
But it seems to be pretty common in that world.

00:15:22:08 - 00:15:25:08
So it's,

00:15:25:14 - 00:15:28:10
it's an example of, it’s,

00:15:28:10 - 00:15:32:01
we've got few examples of Jewish people with the name Paolos.

00:15:32:07 - 00:15:33:04
Right.

00:15:33:04 - 00:15:36:04
But is is quite common among

00:15:36:09 - 00:15:39:06
among ordinary Roman Greek people.

00:15:39:06 - 00:15:40:02
Yeah. Right.

00:15:40:02 - 00:15:44:17
So having, having come from a family in, in Tarsus

00:15:45:16 - 00:15:48:10
in Cilicia,

00:15:48:10 - 00:15:50:06
T: is that right, am I remembering correctly? S: Yeah, yeah.

00:15:50:06 - 00:15:55:02
Yeah so he's, he's not grown up in, in Jerusalem.

00:15:55:02 - 00:16:00:03
So he's growing up as, as a Roman citizen, as a, in a family of Roman citizens.

00:16:00:03 - 00:16:03:05
T: Would it be? But Jewish in that community? S: Well, you see, yeah 

00:16:03:11 - 00:16:07:03
S: He says that he he inherited the citizenship from his father. T: Of course he does, yes.

00:16:07:03 - 00:16:09:12
T: Because he didn't have to buy it. S: Yeah.

00:16:09:12 - 00:16:12:12
When he's talking with the the Tribune in Jerusalem.

00:16:12:12 - 00:16:13:12
Yeah, yeah.

00:16:13:12 - 00:16:15:15
So, so, yes.

00:16:15:15 - 00:16:17:15
He he's inherited it.

00:16:18:17 - 00:16:21:21
And possibly his father got the citizenship

00:16:21:21 - 00:16:24:21
because of services to the Empire,

00:16:25:02 - 00:16:28:19
we got a good number of examples of that happening to people.

00:16:28:19 - 00:16:29:05
Okay.

00:16:29:05 - 00:16:32:00
But the truth is, we don't really know.

00:16:32:00 - 00:16:35:00
S: We don't really know. T: Okay. Right.

00:16:35:06 - 00:16:38:06
So. So it would make sense that

00:16:38:10 - 00:16:41:13
Paul has this, this Roman name

00:16:41:13 - 00:16:45:09
structure of the three names plus his, plus his Jewish name.

00:16:46:24 - 00:16:48:13
It's a shame we don't know the other two names.

00:16:48:13 - 00:16:51:14
Isn't it? That would fill things out a little S: It is, yes

00:16:52:13 - 00:16:53:01
Yeah.

00:16:53:01 - 00:16:55:23
S: Luke just gives us the details we need to have. T: Yes.

00:16:55:23 - 00:16:58:23
T: Fair enough S: Not the ones we wish we had.

00:16:59:05 - 00:17:02:05
He's not the only biblical writer to fall into that trap.

00:17:02:20 - 00:17:03:24
S: Yes. T: Yeah,

00:17:03:24 - 00:17:05:14
Okay. That's very interesting. So.

00:17:05:14 - 00:17:07:23
So when we when we get to Acts chapter 13,

00:17:09:19 - 00:17:10:14
it's,

00:17:10:14 - 00:17:14:21
it's a shift in, there is a shift that's taking place, but it's more

00:17:14:21 - 00:17:19:04
a shift of what's useful for Paul rather than taking on a new name.

00:17:19:04 - 00:17:21:07
And a new identity.

00:17:21:07 - 00:17:24:07
Yeah. And,

00:17:25:07 - 00:17:26:10
Jerome,

00:17:26:10 - 00:17:29:16
the translator of the Latin Vulgate suggested that

00:17:30:00 - 00:17:33:20
the change was because he adopted Sergius Paulos's name.

00:17:34:05 - 00:17:37:08
and I and I greatly doubt that.

00:17:37:10 - 00:17:38:01
Okay.

00:17:38:01 - 00:17:42:12
I think it's much, much more likely he already had the name Paolos.

00:17:43:10 - 00:17:46:12
But you see that coming up a lot in in the commentaries.

00:17:46:12 - 00:17:47:19
Oh, yes. Yes.

00:17:47:19 - 00:17:51:19
And, they there are a number of people who suggest that,

00:17:52:01 - 00:17:55:14
but the probability is that he had both names from childhood.

00:17:55:16 - 00:17:57:14
Right.

00:17:57:14 - 00:18:00:14
Now, more plausibly,

00:18:00:22 - 00:18:03:12
it's to do with the role he's playing in the narrative

00:18:03:12 - 00:18:08:22
and the context in which he is, William Ramsey, suggests that,

00:18:10:09 - 00:18:11:11
when you see Paul in

00:18:11:11 - 00:18:14:23
Jewish contexts, he introduces himself as a Jew from Tarsus,

00:18:15:06 - 00:18:20:03
like in in the midst of the riot in Acts 22 when he speaks.

00:18:21:08 - 00:18:23:08
But elsewhere

00:18:23:08 - 00:18:26:08
in the course of Roman governor in Cyprus,

00:18:26:16 - 00:18:30:07
it would be much more natural to use his Roman name, Paolos.

00:18:31:14 - 00:18:34:17
And so once Paul starts to engage

00:18:34:17 - 00:18:38:24
with Gentile mission, seriously, which he does from Cyprus onwards.

00:18:38:24 - 00:18:43:17
T: Yes, right S: then the Greek name just makes a lot more sense

00:18:44:07 - 00:18:47:07
than being known as a Jew by a Jewish name.

00:18:47:07 - 00:18:50:07
Even though he's clearly proclaiming

00:18:51:00 - 00:18:54:00
S: a message is rooted in Judaism. T: Yes.

00:18:54:21 - 00:18:58:06
Now that, that's an . . . and I think there's some truth in that.

00:18:59:15 - 00:19:02:22
The . . . Barrett

00:19:02:22 - 00:19:06:22
Kingsley Barrett, in his big commentary on Acts, does,

00:19:06:23 - 00:19:11:01
looks the opposite direction to Ramsey, which is backwards from Cyprus

00:19:11:10 - 00:19:16:08
and he notices that in Saul, without exception,

00:19:16:21 - 00:19:20:18
that the use of that name occurs in the Jewish context earlier in Acts.

00:19:21:02 - 00:19:23:07
T: Right. S: So, so it's in Jerusalem.

00:19:23:07 - 00:19:25:23
It's in Damascus among the Jews there.

00:19:27:19 - 00:19:30:15
So it crops up when that's going on.

00:19:30:15 - 00:19:33:00
T: Right S: Barnabas fetches Saul,

00:19:33:00 - 00:19:36:01
T: Yes S: from Tarsus,

00:19:36:04 - 00:19:39:16
from Cilicia to go to be with him in Antioch,

00:19:39:24 - 00:19:42:19
to work with this first ever

00:19:42:19 - 00:19:45:19
Jew plus Gentile believing community.

00:19:46:08 - 00:19:48:13
So he's Saul, Saul, Saul.

00:19:48:13 - 00:19:51:13
But Barrett says, and that makes sense.

00:19:51:22 - 00:19:55:23
T: Yes it does S: And there’s, the Jewish flavour

00:19:56:04 - 00:19:59:04
of that part of Acts is really quite significant.

00:20:00:22 - 00:20:03:20
So so putting the two together,

00:20:03:20 - 00:20:06:20
you've got on the one side

00:20:06:21 - 00:20:11:10
Jewish context known by Jewish name, and it's therefore interesting

00:20:12:00 - 00:20:16:13
that in the Jerusalem meeting in Acts 15, he's call Saul again.

00:20:17:02 - 00:20:17:23
Yeah.

00:20:17:23 - 00:20:20:07
S: He just pops up a Saul. T: Yeah.

00:20:20:07 - 00:20:24:02
And you find yourself thinking, oh, he's been Paul ever since Cyprus.

00:20:24:02 - 00:20:24:09
Yeah.

00:20:24:09 - 00:20:29:01
But now and instead of his name coming first,

00:20:30:03 - 00:20:33:03
it's Barnabas and Saul in chapter 15.

00:20:33:11 - 00:20:36:18
Oh so back to how it how it is where Barnabas fetches him from

00:20:36:19 - 00:20:37:03
Yeah.

00:20:37:03 - 00:20:42:00
T: From Tarsus, oh I’ve never spotted that S: we've had Barnabas and Saul until Cyprus.

00:20:42:05 - 00:20:44:04
And then once we get onto the mainland

00:20:44:04 - 00:20:47:04
and they go to Pisidian Antioch, it's Paul and Barnabas.

00:20:47:11 - 00:20:50:11
So he he has switched to his,

00:20:50:22 - 00:20:53:22
his Roman Greek name.

00:20:54:04 - 00:20:58:09
And and he's become the senior of the two

00:20:58:09 - 00:21:01:19
because the one you name first, right, is the senior person.

00:21:02:10 - 00:21:05:16
So, so that's really interesting because back in so back

00:21:05:16 - 00:21:08:24
in Jerusalem, they still think Barnabas is the senior

00:21:09:10 - 00:21:12:10
and they call Saul by the name Saul

00:21:12:18 - 00:21:15:10
because they don't see Barnabas

00:21:15:10 - 00:21:18:04
and Saul between

00:21:18:04 - 00:21:20:19
well, the community in that part of the world

00:21:20:19 - 00:21:23:17
don't see them from the time they set off from Antioch

00:21:23:17 - 00:21:28:02
until they've been through Cyprus, Pisidian Antioch, all of that area

00:21:28:02 - 00:21:31:05
T: on the first missionary journey, and then come back. S: Yes.

00:21:31:20 - 00:21:32:15
Yeah.

00:21:32:15 - 00:21:36:05
So, so it's a really interesting set of switches.

00:21:36:12 - 00:21:37:04
S: And T: It is

00:21:38:07 - 00:21:41:09
the only bit of contribution Barnabas and Saul make

00:21:41:09 - 00:21:45:19
is to testify to what God's done through them in the journey

00:21:45:19 - 00:21:47:09
they,

00:21:47:09 - 00:21:50:13
they've had in what we call Acts 13 and 14

00:21:50:20 - 00:21:53:24
through the south of modern Turkey, through southern Galatia.

00:21:54:18 - 00:21:58:21
So it's it's in that area that it's been Paul and Barnabas.

00:21:59:10 - 00:22:00:16
But now we're back in Jerusalem.

00:22:00:16 - 00:22:02:05
It's Barnabas and Saul.

00:22:02:05 - 00:22:06:24
So but that's the last time he's called Saul in the book of Acts, apart

00:22:06:24 - 00:22:10:23
from the two reports in Acts 22 and 26

00:22:11:04 - 00:22:14:19
of the Damascus Road story, when he again says,

00:22:15:03 - 00:22:20:01
S: Jesus said to me, Saoul, Saoul, T: Yes, because then he's reporting his story.

00:22:20:01 - 00:22:22:18
He's he's not identifying himself at that point.

00:22:22:18 - 00:22:23:07
Yeah.

00:22:23:07 - 00:22:26:16
Does, this may be an impossible question to answer.

00:22:27:06 - 00:22:31:02
Does Paul become the leader early on?

00:22:31:03 - 00:22:35:07
You know, as soon as they hit the mainland or as soon as they get to Pisidian

00:22:35:07 - 00:22:39:15
Antioch, at any rate, having come from Cyprus and now its Paul

00:22:39:15 - 00:22:43:12
and Barnabas is is Paul the leader to start with?

00:22:45:04 - 00:22:46:05
Because Paul is

00:22:46:05 - 00:22:49:11
already becoming, he’s obviously growing into it,

00:22:49:11 - 00:22:52:11
but has he has he now become

00:22:52:11 - 00:22:55:19
come into the status of being the apostle to the Gentiles,

00:22:56:00 - 00:22:59:00
or is he the leader simply because he's the local boy? He's

00:23:00:02 - 00:23:03:24
T: from . . . relatively speaking, and Barnabas isn't S: Well Cilicia is way

00:23:03:24 - 00:23:07:19
S: over in the east of modern Turkey, T: sure, but it's a lot closer

00:23:07:19 - 00:23:09:02
than Barnabas’s home, isn’t it?

00:23:09:02 - 00:23:11:13
Well, yes. But well, Barnabas comes from Cyprus.

00:23:11:13 - 00:23:12:18
T: Oh of course he does. Yeah. Okay.

00:23:12:18 - 00:23:13:04
Yeah.

00:23:13:04 - 00:23:17:01
So, I mean, they're an interesting pair because I,

00:23:17:20 - 00:23:21:05
I think we owe Paul to Barnabas,

00:23:22:14 - 00:23:26:01
there, there are two incidents where where that happens.

00:23:26:01 - 00:23:30:10
One is in Acts 9 when he gets to Jerusalem for the first time,

00:23:30:21 - 00:23:36:13
and the the apostles are with good reason, highly suspicious of him,

00:23:36:21 - 00:23:40:05
because the last time they met him, he was throwing believers into jail.

00:23:41:12 - 00:23:42:15
And it's Barnabas who

00:23:42:15 - 00:23:45:23
speaks for him and commends him and they receive him.

00:23:46:08 - 00:23:51:15
And then ten years later, it's Barnabas who fetches him to

00:23:51:19 - 00:23:55:20
to Syrian Antioch and gives him the opportunity.

00:23:56:04 - 00:23:59:19
So my guess is that Barnabas has recognized

00:24:00:06 - 00:24:03:21
the gifts that Saul/Paul has

00:24:04:20 - 00:24:06:24
and knows that he can help

00:24:06:24 - 00:24:09:12
the church in Antioch.

00:24:09:12 - 00:24:12:08
And and it's interesting because when they get to Lystra

00:24:12:08 - 00:24:15:08
in Acts 14, which is this pagan city,

00:24:15:13 - 00:24:18:11
and they call Paul and Barnabas

00:24:18:11 - 00:24:21:11
by names of their gods,

00:24:21:11 - 00:24:26:04
they call Paul Hermes, Mercury because he's the speaker.

00:24:26:09 - 00:24:27:00
Right.

00:24:27:00 - 00:24:31:09
And they call Barnabas Zeus, which is actually a much more senior god.

00:24:32:04 - 00:24:35:06
So so Paul’s speaking ability

00:24:36:00 - 00:24:38:13
is the thing that gets recognized.

00:24:38:13 - 00:24:41:04
And I think it's because of the effectiveness

00:24:41:04 - 00:24:45:00
of his speaking and the effectiveness of his evangelism

00:24:45:24 - 00:24:48:15
that he he becomes the senior.

00:24:48:15 - 00:24:48:24
Right

00:24:48:24 - 00:24:52:23
He's the kind of senior church planter, you might say, in our terms.

00:24:52:23 - 00:24:54:24
Yeah.

00:24:54:24 - 00:24:57:21
Is is it possible that Barnabas is

00:24:57:21 - 00:25:01:05
is a little older than Paul and therefore they, they, they give him

00:25:01:18 - 00:25:05:04
because they presumably, they could have chosen another, Greek god

00:25:05:04 - 00:25:09:00
to, to name to, to identify with Barnabas, but they call him Zeus.

00:25:09:06 - 00:25:10:09
Is he,

00:25:10:09 - 00:25:12:18
T: Could that be because he's older than Paul? S: Possibly

00:25:12:18 - 00:25:14:02
So the messenger, Paul’s

00:25:14:02 - 00:25:17:16
the spokesperson that Barnabas is, is, is an older man.

00:25:17:22 - 00:25:20:24
S: It’s certainly possible T: But we have no way of knowing, do we? S: but the trouble is

00:25:20:24 - 00:25:24:16
It's difficult to know I mean Barnabas is a Levite.

00:25:24:18 - 00:25:25:00
Yeah.

00:25:25:00 - 00:25:28:08
And you don't start function as a Levite till you’re 30.

00:25:29:16 - 00:25:33:18
He's got land in Cyprus that he sells in Acts 4.

00:25:33:18 - 00:25:34:07
Yeah.

00:25:34:07 - 00:25:40:01
So it looks as though he's somebody who has inherited

00:25:40:19 - 00:25:43:19
and he has the power to sell.

00:25:43:20 - 00:25:46:20
So that probably puts him as a bit older.

00:25:47:01 - 00:25:52:10
Whereas Saul we know from Galatians 1 is somebody who,

00:25:53:15 - 00:25:56:06
has, has become,

00:25:56:06 - 00:25:59:06
a kind of young Turk.

00:26:00:02 - 00:26:02:12
Turk is probably not the right word to use.

00:26:02:12 - 00:26:03:04
Probably isn't.

00:26:03:04 - 00:26:08:07
But it’s . . . S: but but he's the kind of young, sparky individual.

00:26:08:07 - 00:26:08:20
Yeah.

00:26:08:20 - 00:26:11:20
So probably in his 20s,

00:26:12:04 - 00:26:16:20
which is pretty young to become a significant leader in Judaism.

00:26:16:20 - 00:26:17:06
Yeah.

00:26:17:06 - 00:26:21:17
Now, people live far shorter than we live in those days.

00:26:22:11 - 00:26:24:01
So. So it's not like

00:26:24:01 - 00:26:27:14
somebody who gets a PhD in their 20s and then changes the world.

00:26:28:23 - 00:26:33:20
But but he's the kind of person who is clearly very,

00:26:33:20 - 00:26:37:04
very significant and very, very surprisingly so he says

00:26:37:12 - 00:26:40:20
he says he excelled over all his contemporaries

00:26:40:20 - 00:26:44:03
in Galatians 1, which is really striking about him.

00:26:44:11 - 00:26:48:18
So yes, I think it's possible that Barnabas is the older man.

00:26:50:01 - 00:26:52:20
But, impossible to know for sure.

00:26:52:20 - 00:26:53:19
Yeah.

00:26:53:19 - 00:26:56:19
Anything else to say about about Paul's name?

00:26:56:19 - 00:26:57:11
Paul/Saul

00:26:58:19 - 00:26:59:20
I think

00:26:59:20 - 00:27:02:20
I think we've covered most of the things, the,

00:27:03:11 - 00:27:06:11
the shift of names is something that we do know happens

00:27:07:05 - 00:27:09:10
in Scripture.

00:27:09:10 - 00:27:13:06
So think of Abram, who becomes Abraham.

00:27:13:06 - 00:27:14:02
Yeah.

00:27:14:02 - 00:27:16:23
‘Exalted father’ to ‘father of many.’

00:27:16:23 - 00:27:20:04
And that happens with, with others.

00:27:20:04 - 00:27:23:04
Jacob, ‘heel grasper’

00:27:23:07 - 00:27:26:13
becomes ‘the one who fights with God.’

00:27:26:13 - 00:27:28:03
Israel.

00:27:28:03 - 00:27:31:23
And you can see the ‘el’ which is the name of God in that.

00:27:32:06 - 00:27:36:24
So, so that that sort of double naming is, is interesting.

00:27:37:00 - 00:27:40:00
but it doesn't look as though,

00:27:41:03 - 00:27:43:22
Saul is given the name Paul,

00:27:43:22 - 00:27:47:17
I think I think it's highly likely he’d had it from birth

00:27:49:04 - 00:27:52:04
like Tabitha,

00:27:52:08 - 00:27:55:09
or Simeon Niger in Acts 13:1.

00:27:57:01 - 00:28:00:01
Niger means black

00:28:00:09 - 00:28:02:10
So Simeon

00:28:02:10 - 00:28:05:24
is is almost certainly an African of some kind.

00:28:07:13 - 00:28:10:04
Racism of the kind we know today

00:28:10:04 - 00:28:13:04
didn't exist in the ancient world,

00:28:13:23 - 00:28:16:19
based on skin colour and,

00:28:16:19 - 00:28:19:19
black people were considered exotic,

00:28:19:20 - 00:28:23:00
but not looked down on because of their skin colour.

00:28:24:02 - 00:28:27:00
Which is really interesting. So,

00:28:27:00 - 00:28:30:00
one of the, one of the authors speaks of,

00:28:30:03 - 00:28:34:23
blameless Ethiopians, for instance, so that they can be

00:28:34:23 - 00:28:39:15
thought of quite highly, so those kind of double names are around.

00:28:40:13 - 00:28:44:10
But in Paul's case, I think the, the change,

00:28:44:10 - 00:28:49:11
the change of name is about facilitating his evangelism.

00:28:49:20 - 00:28:52:20
And that sounds to me like 1 Corinthians 9.

00:28:53:01 - 00:28:57:04
To the Jews I became as a Jew, to the Gentiles I became as a Gentile.

00:28:57:04 - 00:29:00:05
that I think that's the driver.

00:29:00:15 - 00:29:06:10
Because for Paul, the thing that matters most to him more than anything else is

00:29:06:10 - 00:29:10:13
that people hear and respond to the gospel and come to know God through Christ.

00:29:10:20 - 00:29:13:18
S: That's the driver of his life. T: Yeah.

00:29:13:18 - 00:29:16:14
And that's the focus of what he wants to do.

00:29:16:14 - 00:29:17:04
Excellent.

00:29:17:04 - 00:29:19:14
I think that's a great point to leave it, Steve, thank you so much.

00:29:19:14 - 00:29:21:17
T: That's been fascinating. S: That’s okay. Thank you.